18
2012
Amazin’ Hypotheticals: What’s The Price Of Adding Another Cy Young Contender?
An article by XtreemIcon
It’s not enough for teams to match up with players simply based on positional need. There are teams who focus on certain types of players to fit an organizational structure, brand and philosophy said teams have built. This is why I think the Mets match up well with the Tampa Bay Rays. The Rays have a history of building through the draft, signing their star players early enough to buy out arbitration years as well as free agent years, thus keeping the cost to a minimum in light of the Rays’ dismal economic standing. They have no revenue stream from attendance and a bottom of the barrel payroll, and can’t afford any stars on the open market. That’s why they must control the cost of their own before it gets out of hand.
Case in point is the contract they’ve given to Evan Longoria, perhaps the most talented third baseman in baseball, who seemingly suffers season-altering injuries every year. Days after being called up to the majors in 2008, the Rays inked Longo to a six year, $17.5 million contract with three option years that would keep him Tampa through 2016 and pay him a grand total of $47.5 million, plus incentives, for nine years. That same year, the Rays signed James Shields to a four year, $11.25 million contract with three option years that could being his full deal to $39.25 million over seven years, also with added incentives. After making just one start in the majors in 2011, Matt Moore agreed to a five year, $14 million deal, plus those three options the Rays love that could pay Moore $40 million over eight years, plus the incentives he achieves. The Rays operate a certain way, specifically with pitchers.
He’d look good in blue and orange
But there’s one pitcher they let slip away, one that might turn out to have a better career than all three players above. David Price does not have a long-term deal and is currently on a year-by-year team-controlled/arbitration salary. The Rays did try, signing him to a long-term major league contract in 2007, while he was still in the minors, but left the door open with a clause that stated Price could opt out of the contract and file for arbitration in any year in which he would have been arbitration-eligible. Price took advantage of that clause and opted out after 2011, electing for arbitration over the $1.5 million he would have made under the contract. The Rays and Price avoided arbitration by agreeing to a $4.35 deal, and now the Rays are in a bind.
Price is a leading contender for the American League Cy Young award. Even without the award, he’d likely earn $8 million in arbitration and the award could hike that up into double figures. With Price’s trade value at the highest it’s ever been, this might be a prime opportunity for the Rays to score a huge return instead of going year-by-year with Price through his next three arbitration years, potentially paying $35 million for those three years and receiving just draft picks in return. Sure, the Rays could trade him at any time over those three years, but seasons like the one Price just had aren’t easily replicated. The Rays should strike while the iron is hot.
Enter the New York Mets. Before the 2012 season, the Mets and pitcher Jonathon Niese agreed to a Raysian-type deal, guaranteeing Niese five years, and holding two options that could bring the total to a little under $47 million for seven years. Andrew Friedman likely stood and applauded. The solid season Niese had and the potential he showed is very nice, but not worth a potential Cy Young winner on its own. What else do the Mets have? The Mets also have a first baseman that is only entering his first arbitration year and cannot be a free agent for another four years, a very good candidate for a long-term deal that buys out a lot of those years. Eh, that’s better, but why can’t the Rays just re-up Carlos Peña for the umpteenth time and keep their ace? Fine. How about that DH Joel Sherman says the Rays have always liked? Ok, Mets, throw in your top pitching prospect, the Rays will return their top middle infield prospect (because they have two of them in their top-ten, according to Baseball America), a middle reliever, a 72-hour window to sign Price long-term (a la Johan Santana) and we have the principles of a deal.
The Mets get: David Price, Burke Badenhop and Hak-Ju Lee
The Rays get: Jon Niese, Ike Davis, Lucas Duda and Zack Wheeler
That’s a doozy. Let that simmer before reacting. Count to twenty and keep in mind that this is the principle of a proposed deal. Cash and/or minor prospects will also change addresses. Let’s look at the Pros and Cons from the Mets perspective.
Lee will likely stick as a long-term middle infield presence.
Pros: They are replacing Jon Niese with David Price and (probably) Manny Acosta with Burke Badenhop. This would be a huge boost to the pitching staff. I can show you stats for days, but it’s not necessary. The Mets would also be using Lucas Duda, who many have grown tired of and given up on, to return such a huge improvement. They would also be receiving a very highly regarded shortstop prospect with great speed, who, in 2012, had a really good stolen base percentage in 2012 (80%), a solid contact bat (.261/.336/.360) and, most importantly, plus defense up the middle. Lee had a full season at AA Montgomery and will be given a long look in Spring Training. He’ll likely begin the season in Durham and his arrival in the bigs projects to be as soon as he proves he can handle AAA and Elliot Johnson can’t handle the majors. With the Mets, he can take it a little more slowly. Daniel Murphy, who would now know his time was almost up, might be motivated to either keep his job, or make himself more attractive to another team, which would also benefit the Mets. Murphy isn’t eligible for free agency till 2016, and the Mets can do with him what they please for three more years. Increasing his trade value is obviously optimal, but worst case, Murphy is demoted to a super-sub, which is likely his best role on the team. There’s another option with Murphy, which I’ll address a little later. In case it’s not clear, I’m talking about moving Ruben Tejada to second base.Cons: I like Niese, but I get replacing him with David Price. But who’s going to play first base? Ike Davis had 32 home runs in a bad year. And Duda could hit 25 or so playing every day. That’s basically all of the Mets’ power, not to mention Davis is a stud defensively. How do you address that? And isn’t the best pitching prospect on the farm a little steep?
Well, you have to give up something to get something. To improve the pitching staff that drastically will cost you, and there’s the rub. The Mets will obviously have to downgrade at first base, but maybe not all that much. With the acquisition of Davis, the Rays will no longer need Peña. He still has power and still managed a better OBP than Davis, and is a better-than-average defender at first base. He earned $7.25 million in 2012, but could see that number fall to as low as $5 million, which is affordable. James Loney, considerably younger than Peña, has been a good hitter with a little pop for most of his career, with the exception of 2012, which is why it’s not likely he’ll be retained by the Red Sox. Loney’s also a plus defender at the position and his 2012 salary of $6.375 million will also likely fall into the $5 million range.
There are internal options, as well. Josh Satin and Zach Lutz could see time as stop-gaps. Wilmer Flores played first base a little in 2012, and that might be the most realistic way to get his bat in the lineup when he’s ready to hit in the majors. But my favorite option would be Daniel Murphy. He played a decent first base when he was plugged in there in the wake of Carlos Delgado’s career-ending injury in 2009. We saw how well he took to second base and how much better he was at the end of the season than he was in the beginning, and second base is a far more difficult position to learn than first base. There’s no reason Murphy can’t become a solid defensive first baseman, and we already know he can hit. As far as replacing Duda, I don’t see where it’ll be that hard. Flores projects to hit better than Duda, whenever he’s promoted to whichever position he’ll play (maybe the outfield if Murphy slides to first). Peña could provide similar offense and Loney could provide a better overall bat, but with a drop in power.
Zack Wheeler, we hardly knew ye.
As far as Wheeler goes, well, that’s just shrapnel. I can’t expect a team to give up a top-ten pitcher in all of baseball, plus a dependable bullpen arm, for Jon Niese, who was maybe a top-20 pitcher in the National League this season moving to the American League.
Something’s gotta give.
Wheeler’s a tough pill to swallow, but that could be offset a little by extra low-level (level, not potential) starters. An A-ball pitcher with promise, maybe. Or maybe enough cash to offset the free agent signing of the replacement first baseman or another outfielder. The smaller details are just minutiae for the GMs to work out.
About the Author: Jesse Elgarten
48 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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I met Price when he was first drafted. At the Winter Meetings each MLB team throws a party for their MILB affiliates. They thought so highly of Price that they actually had him there solely for the purpose to have him stand up and wave and praise his potential.
He (along with Maddon by the way) are some of the nicest baseball people I ever met.
With that said, here’s what you did that I like: You made a trade proposal that seems like the Mets are over paying. That tells me you’re at least thinking logically. Some will say “lets give em murphy and mejia for price” and those people are just hoping for a robbery.
I personally think the Mets will see Wheeler through. They probably want nothing more than to be proven right about that deal.
I think where you misfire is Niese AND Wheeler. Because realistically though Price is amazing, that leaves the Mets with another hole to fill. You’re going with Price-Dickey-Harvey and then rolling the dice with unknowns and health issues.
Secondly, Price would have to be signed ala Santana deal. There’s no way you do this if you are not guaranteed he’s with your team longterm.
Lastly, I think when you give up BOTH Ike and Duda – you create yet another hole at 1B. The Mets need to fill holes, not create them.
If you told me it was Niese or Wheeler, Duda, Murphy, and say Flores for Price. I’d do it. Would you?
“You made a trade proposal that seems like the Mets are over paying. That tells me you’re at least thinking logically.”
This is why the two of you fail miserably whenever you talk about building this team!
Anyone who wears a Met Uni is only worth half price!
Metsie – Leaving out the next sentence does exactly what you wanted. It tells half the story
“Some will say “lets give em murphy and mejia for price” and those people are just hoping for a robbery.”
I say this because when people come up with a “trade idea” they are often giving away two dimes and a nickel and expecting a $20 bill back.
When people come up with trades where maybe fans of the Mets say its too much – it creates a more spirited and fair trade talk rather than “lets give them “turner murphy and gee and they will want to give us upton.” as an example.
If you took a second to notice – I disagreed with Xtreem’s proposal but followed it with a counter proposal because his original idea got me thinking.
Yeah I left out the rediculous other side extreme…And Left your extremist approach!
Sure there are those who might suggest light weighted trades but at least they are favoring the METS and not some other team the way you guys constantly do!
That proposal was one of the most rediculous trade scenarios I have ever seen you guys try!
Who the hell are you trying to rebuild here with this trade?
The Mets or the DRays?
Your right they would take that trade in a heartbeat!
And laugh thier way to the Playoffs if we gave them all those guys!
Again – I turned down the trade and formulated my own response. Its better than assuming they will hand David Price over for 0
The point was made and clear….
You guys think overpaying is LOGICAL!
It’s just dumb and illogical!
But I bet if that deal happens we can expect a post about it being a good day now can’t we?
No Metsie – despite our greatest wishes, we are not the GM
When coming up with hypothetical trades, a conversation will be more constructive if you go into it with an idea that is viewed by some as “overpaying.”
I’d rather read Xtreem wants to pay a high price for David Price rather than “I got an idea lets give them Jason Bay, Daniel Murphy and Dillon Gee why wouldn’t they take that.”
In a world of HYPOTHETICALS yes I’d rather somebody be willing to overpay because the ideas that are blatantly underpaid usually have an assumption that all MLB GMs are Mets fans.
And again for maybe the 3rd time – I said I didn’t like his trade idea. But I like the discussion it could start between fans
So I guess coming up with a trade of EQUAL value isn’t worth talking about?
We have to be on the losing end of the trade before it’s worth discussing?
So wait, when someone else is creative and proposing a trade you mock them, yet it’s ok for you to come here and write an article about making a trade? for a likely Cy Young winner?? Yeah, un huh…. With this GM at the helm any ideas of improving the roster should be thrown out the window. stick to wishing for the chirs young’s and the carlos quintanillas of the world out there…
XtreemIcon October 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm
There’s that word again. “Creativity.” A buzzword that means nothing.
Then he writes this. And like you said he comes in and mocks my plan which involves moving David Wright, going forward forgetting the past. His plan is to uproot the foundation of this team in order to pay an aging hitter who will tie down this organization’s finances and flexibility.
I guess it was all about my choice of players to move.
Sorry, I should have been more “creative.” I should have said the Mets should trade Wright for major leaguers, and if one team won’t do it, then the Mets should find two teams. Silly me for finding a team to match, suggesting specific players, weighing the Pros and Cons, and coming up with solutions to the Cons. I should have been more “creative” and just said “trade this guy.”
and who is Hak-Ju Lee?
He’s a minor league SS hitting .261 in over 400 ABs. That’s who he is. Unless hitting .330 in A- ball counts for something.
He’s making a trade proposal and moving Ike Davis, Jonathan Niese, Lucas Duda, & Zack Wheeler…….and he doesn’t tell us who one of the players are? Sure let’s make a blockbuster trade but not tell the folks about every player involved.
And it’s about WINS. You know? That thing saber doesn’t really care too much about.
Like TRS said, who’s gonna make up the WINS that Niese & Wheeler can combine? Just Price?
So the Mets move their ENTIRE FUTURE in Wheeler, Ike Davis, & Jon Niese and get reduce their win potential by getting 1 starting pitcher, a bullpen guy and a .261 hitting minor league SS.
Sure.
Agree Bay, it’s just an awful trade. No offense to the author.
The fact that you don’t even know who Hak Ju Lee is speaks volumes about the kind of baseball fan you are against the kind you claim to be. The fact you you said that I didn’t tell you who one of the players are means you didn’t read the article and just responded to who wrote it, not what was written. The fact that you immediately went to his stats to learn about him speaks volumes about the kind of hypocrite you are. And you have the laughable audacity to call out my idea. Can’t make it up.
Price would look good in blue and orange and his stats will look even better pitching in the NL
Mitch, come on… We all know that, but at this point, aim lower.. and i mean, LOWEEEEEEEEEEER…. How about chirs young again? Articles like this one makes no sense with SA as our GM. you should know this.
interesting. and would certainly make a splash (along the lines of Mo Vaughn doing a cannonball into a kiddie pool).
the real question though when you trade position for the same position, is if the incremental difference (price over neise) is going to more than offset what you lose at other spots. While you certainly could upgrade that 1 SP spot, it does nothing for the rest of the rotation, and the team overall may win less games if the incremental downgrades at other positions more than offsets the upgrade.
How about Dickey (also 1 year left), Parnell (ala Badenhop) and Puello for Zobrist, Hellickson and their top pitchig prospect Chris Archer?
Why would the Mets want this deal?
I’d think Niese, Davis, Familia and Mejia would be more along the lines of what I would give up. Add Duda in if you want as well. I can’t see trading Niese, Davis and Wheeler. Most want to trade Niese for a couple of players to fill holes. IE, Niese for a pitcher, catcher and an OF spot. This seems to be doing the reverse.
Also, it’s that adding of Salary that throws a monkey wrench in this. You’d have to trade Wright away to make the numbers work for this year or have a heavy backloaded contract.
you just don’t see a lot of trades of established young guy for another established young guy (just a rung up the ladder) that plays the same position (and in this case, pitch with the same arm). Like you said, it does not fill an actual hole, and creates others.
Now, if the proposal is Wheeler + some others for Price, that is a whole nother story, because then you are adding to a strength, and effectively replacing Johan of old.
Well said. Agreed.
No thanks.
I like Price don’t get me wrong. But how many more wins is he going to give you than Niese and Wheeler are those wins going to make up for the losses of trading some of your best offensive players?
TRS – If they said to start talks: Niese or Wheeler, Duda, Flores for Price and the deal is based on whether Price signs an extension within a window of time.
Would you do it?
Good question. Wheeler, Duda, Flores would probably be better than having Niese in the deal, only because he is a proven commodity.
I’m still not certain I would pull that trigger, because there is more to fill. We all talk about trading Wright or Niese or Dickey to fill in the myriad of holes this team has. OF, C, BP… So upgrading the SP makes not as much sense to me. Especially if you consider doing Niese in the deal because you just flip Niese for Price and in the process lose you best positional prospect and an OF option. And added big salary.
That offer to me is most fair, still hard to do though
To me I still don’t see it. Trading those 3 who could fill starting positions (well at least 2 of them) just to pay Price a ton of money? Wouldn’t we be just as well off keeping Harvey, Wheeler, and Niese together and then looking to trade for a #3 type pitcher while also spending that excess money saved on Price for other needs?
TRS, I don’t concern myself with things like pitcher wins. Team wins are what’s important. It wouldn’t matter to me if Price could have say, 23 wins and the combo of Niese and Wheeler could have 28, because maybe Badenhop doesn’t blow as many games as whomever he replaces in the bullpen and either vultures some wins himself and/or doesn’t cost other pitchers. If each pitcher earns just one extra win because of Badenhop holding leads, he has three or four himself, and he keeps other pitchers out of the game who might blow a couple, now maybe Badenhop contributes to eight wins. That’s a lot of hypotheticals, but so are “pitcher” wins.
Price’s ERA was about a full run lower than Niese in the AL East. I don’t think it can be overstated how huge an upgrade to the rotation that would be. I like Niese. You’d be crazy not to, but are we maybe overvaluing out homegrown players a little? Wheeler, like I said, has great potential and is a tough pill to swallow, but you have to even it out someway. The Mets have a lot of young pitching and can afford to deal from that strength to upgrade. The lose something at first base and offensively, but that’s the price for upgrading elsewhere. It would be great if the Mets can come out decisively on top, but that’s fantasy.
Even though they get the best player, can’t do that from Mets perspective based on incluson of Wheeler.
Ok, so let me get this right: Wheeler makes you hesitate to pull the trigger?Wheeler can’t get AA hitters out consistantly. David Price, on the other hand, embarrasses borderline HOF. No one, NO ONE, has called this guy a can’t miss since he’s been here.
My take is do it. But since this trade proposal was too reasonable, allow me to take us back to crazy:
Jason Bay, Famillia, Murphy for Jose Reyes. Listen before laughing:
Jose doesn’t want to be there, the Mets don’t wan’t Bay and the Marlins owner is crazy!
Back to being reasonable, great trade proposal and a good read!
Did anybody think that Niese would become this good? Wasn’t he a # 5 starter and perhaps # 4 at best. Now he is # 2. And they way I understand it Zack Wheeler has the potential to become a #1. So in 2014 you have Niese, Wheeler and Harvey at the top of your rotation. Add Mejia and Gee as #4 and # 5 and could have yourself a pretty good rotation. Cheap and under control for many years.
Deebo,
From a baseball sense I agree with you 100%. Price is a proven top 5 stud at the MLB level. Unfortunately, finances need to be factored in since our big market team is run by improverished millionnaires. Wheeler crushed AA hitters. Based on almost consensus scouting reports, he has a very good chance of being a high end starter at the MLB level. Time will tell, but there is a strong chance that the Mets will get disproportionate value from him for 3-4 years, and will be able to spend the “limited resources” on some power hitting that is devoid in the system.
We have pitching. What we need is power. You’re trading away our 2 best power hitters for more pitching. It should be going the other way.
Actually you are trading 2/3 of our best long term pitchers in the deal as well. LOL. This one would destroy the Mets in mythical fashion.
You should have made the title Amazin’ Avenue Hypotheticals. Would have made more sense.
If the rays were only allowed to make trades with the mets…than i agree…
the fact that they can trade David Price to 28 other teams…means the mets probably wont be able to match some other teams offer…
“The Rays have a history of building through the draft, signing their star players early enough to buy out arbitration years as well as free agent years, thus keeping the cost to a minimum in light of the Rays’ dismal economic standing. They have no revenue stream from attendance and a bottom of the barrel payroll, and can’t afford any stars on the open market. That’s why they must control the cost of their own before it gets out of hand.”
Except for the history of building through the draft, isn’t this who the Mets are trying to be. We have “apparent” dismal financial standing, and we have lack of revenue from attendance, and we must control cost before they get out of hand (see locking up Niese).
That said, this trade is bad. Again, I love David Price, but I don’t love the price to acquire him or the financial strain he’ll increasingly add to our mid-market payroll. Again, you have to give up something to get something of value. Great. I get that. But I’m not giving up my power hitting 1B, my maturing lefty starter, and arguably the best pitching prospect in baseball.
No. Those three are part of my core. What I am doing is locking up Ike, trading Wright and Dickey to get more young hitters, and signing two starting OFs. Im sending Kirk, ‘Spin, and maybe even Duda to AAA to get more ABs and to develop.
well, even at the new shrunken payroll “cap” they seem to be working with (roughly 100mill), that payroll is still about double the rays. So they in theory could build the same team, and then add at least 2 top guys onto it.
A better comparison would be the Cardinals really, since that is pretty much what they do, with a payroll similar to the Mets. Braves also. Bother teams that essentially start like the Rays, but can keep a few of their studs LT or add a FA when needed.
No thanks. I love Price, and I know the Mets would have to offer a HUGE package for him, but that’s just too much for me… I’d do Niese, Duda, Flores, Fulmer, and another prospect. I’d try to keep Wheeler and Ike at all costs.
If the Rays would do that, I’d drive those guys to the airport myself. I just don’t think they’d give up Price for Niese, some hitters, and a low-level minor league pitcher. I think the Rays version of Fulmer should come back to the Mets in the deal I proposed.
OK, so you give up Davis and Duda. The who plays first base? Every dollar of it.
Xtreem, have you lost your mind? TWO very good young pitchers, our only power threat, and Duda for something like THAT in return? Hell no. You better drum up a better return on our return than that.
No Matt Moore?
No Jeremy Hellickson?
No Stephen Vogt?
Intersting but ultimatley I would not do this if I was the Mets GM. I’d be looking to mimic some of he Rays success rather than take on contract burdens. Price is awesome but like many starters he could fall pray to injury at any time. This is one reason why the Rays are successful, they rarely handcuff themselves to a player. Now, The Mets have more money which allows us to hold on to players such as D Wright but we should be looking to imitate the contracts the Rays dole out to players such as Ike and Harvey and Wheeler (when the time comes) rather than trade away possible affordable cornerstones. Our starting staff is the least of our troubles as the Mets still have no real outfield and the pen isn’t pretty. I would focus on finding a true outfield solution before losing young players for a great pitcher that requires another huge contract.
An above avg lefty pitcher who showing more potential, our top pitching prospects aka one of the best pitching prospects in baseball, our best power threat who hit 32 home runs in a down season for and ace a bullpen arm and a .260 double A light hitting shortstop (a year younger then our .290 major league hitting light shortstop). Now we go into next season with an ACE yes I smell playoffs. So all we do is upgrade at pitching and decrease at 1st base trade our top pitching prospect(who killed double A) for a SS who struggled at double A. I don’t like this trade and we don’t know if David price would even resign. I bet mets fan would be happy with that
I think the poster’s trade proposal stinks. Your giving up way too much. Take Wheeler out, add Mazzoni and then just maybe.
I don’t see the point of trading Niese for Price…why? Because Price is maybe worth an extra five wins and a hundred million more. Then, you give up Wheeler, who could probably win 12 games for the Mets right now. You also are giving up the two strongest players on the team…no thanks. I’ll let Sandy handle this offseason.
I think it would serve fans best to move away from the idea that the team will trade for any top notch major league talent. Not going to happen, they are too far away from winning. I think they should go after teams top ten prospects by considering trading Dickey, Wright, and possibly a grouping of their young parts (i.e. Familia, Mejia, Parnell etc.).
A ridiculous idea to make that kind of a trade with Tampa Bay. We are giving away far too much and weakening ourselves at one of the positions, 1B…where we are strong. Murphy does not have enough power to be manning first base and while he is a good hitter, he will never be anything more than average at best in the field.
From what I know about Badenhop, he is not a lights out closer.
No deal! .
That’s the sort of deal that would kinda sorta make sense (although I wouldn’t give up Wheeler under virtually any circumstances) if the Mets were right on the verge of contending- the one last piece of the puzzle to push them over the threshhold. We all know that isn’t the case at this moment; they should be going for people like Borjous- young guys who fit a role (in his case, young a righty-hitting CF on a team where there’s an overload of talent at his position)
xtreemlcon: I really like fellow fans that use imagination and baseball kcnowledge when trying to improve our team and like you said majorities of our fans propose trades that even if the opposite team GM would have mental problems he would not do it because instead of trades to filled our needs and their needs, what we propose are insulting the level of intelligence of the other teams. Where I don’t agree with you is in creating holes to cover other holes while limiting your financial flexibilty, Ike Davis, Ruben Tejada and Dave Wright are the only position players in the Mets team that can play defense and offense, in other words these are players that you build around, along with your young up coming players like Harvey,Wheeler and Niese, 2/3 of your rotation under team control for the next 6 years. Wilmer Flores is another young player worth of keeping unless you can trade him for another top prospect that would fill a hole in your team like C Travis D’Arnaud, if we resign Wright, if not you have to keep Flores to play 3rd. I would rather trade and I love his personality and his make up, but his age and possible break down will make it easier to trade RA Dickey to fill different holes now that his value is at its highest, Even Wright if they can’t agree to a reasonable contract than dealing our core of young players for a superstar pitcher that one injury can turn the trade into a disaster. I do respect your opinion but don’t agree with your thinking of how to improve the team, and Believe that you can deal Murphy ( Valdespin/ Turner ) could replace him. Duda, tampa bay likes him for 1b an outfielder for him or Toronto who have outfielders to trade and need a 1b. etc. there are way to fill holes from your strenght, but pitching is something that you never have enough and right now with a rotation of 9 depth we may be able to include 1 of our pitcher in a trade if the return is good to fill a couple of needs, other wise, lets leave Sandy Anderson as the GM and see what he is going to do the next 2 years to improve the team.lol.