Could it be that except for R.A. the rest of the team understood they really were not that good as some have implied and thus those like Davis, Duda, Murphy, Gee, Niese, etc. were wiser in knowing their future was ahead of them and better times meant the discarding of veterans for prospects while with Dickey it was only a matter of seeing things for the now?

Or it might simply be that because their future is not yet secure financially, they feel best to remain quiet whereas the veteran players can be more open with their thoughts.

I’m just surprised more players don’t speak up about things like that. At least with Frank Cashen when he stated his 5 year rebuilding plan (and he inherited a MUCH WORSE team) at least we had the hope of trying to win every year along with rebuilding.

I don’t understand how not more players are speaking up about playing for a front office that’s not even trying to win and not only that but practically giving up on them 2 straight years. And that is something that no matter what happens going forward that i can NEVER forgive this FO for doing – giving up and giving up TWICE. Who wants to come here and play for these guys if thats’ the case? And also how do we know that maybe Alderson is not popular with other GMs?

Hi Sarge,

Guess Sandy Alderson thinks the players have false hopes too and that is why he did nothing this year and pulled the rug out from underneath last season.

Maybe this FO is a talent evaluator for players not yet in Majors but how far have they been willing to search for this talent or are they under the thumb of Major League Baseball, Selig, telling them to stick to only certain areas in searching for talent, just asking.
The fact that Wilpons had no money, FO had to know this, made many of their promises unlikely and gave false hope to fans.

Now the word is “all” players are trade bait to try and cover up the FO lack of moves over the past 3 years and in season to make fans not notice the incompetence of not getting talent back for Jose while saying that they would “really” work at signing him when they really knew that they wouldn’t and then blame it on Reyes when they knew that there was no money in the coffer to spend!

We as fans have been lied to, taken for fools, been given double talk and false hope plus told that they were really working hard to improve team, yeah right!

How can we as fans believe anything we are told now?
While his being on trade block is not wrong but whom do the FO have to fill in defensively and with power to replace Ike at 1B?
Duda, really? I can see their playing him there to increase trade value but if Ike has a problem against LH pitchers then he can’t work on that on the bench.
Maybe send Ike to Winter Ball to work on this plus improve his foot work around 1B but to seriously trade our only trun LH power bat w/o having another option is crazy.

This FO will try again this off season to build up fans hopes with leaked comments and subtle words to reporters but fans are on to this already and SA along with other FO people along with Wilpons need to consider the ramifications of lack of forward movement and improvement.

Oh, lastly, how did that hitting philosophy of working pitchers by Hudgins work out?
Against regular or young pitchers it might work but the good pitchers use this to their advantage, as seen this season, to put batter in 0-1 hole that made them let good pitch go bye or become defensive at plate.
Bad, bad idea.

There is no argument that moves made have not panned out. Primarily the bullpen and is cause for concern and while there has been some pickups that have pitched well in large part like Izzy, Byrdak and Rauch they have not been good enough to offset many of the other arms like Carrasco, Beato or R. Ramirez for example.

They gambled with Thole and lost. Torres hitting was always a question and outside of a brief run to start the 2nd half his bat has been subpar. His glove in the ned never really impressed me as being that much better than Pagans and Pagans left much to be desired for me to begin with so that doesn’t say much for Torres. Still he was but a place holder for Kirk N. and Kirk was overall very productive as a rookie even with the strikeouts up to the Rays series this season. Kirk’s numbers were comparable to what Pagan put up during that same span. I still feel Kirk will be starting at CF for the Mets before all is said and done. He made some mistakes out there but he showed enough where I think he could play CF at Citi now if it is in a platoon situation remains to be seen.

I don’t dismiss the possibility of Davis being traded but at this time I am of the opinion they would only do so as part of some huge deal that answers their need at some other position be it outfield, catcher or possibly 2nd base.

This is without getting into what I still am waiting for some type of explanation on and that is how do you fail to sign half of your 1sy year layer draft picks? Which only irritates me every time I think of it.

Overall while anyone is free and entitled to pass judgement overall on the Mets FO thus far and many already have as much as it may bother some my opinion continues to be that while there are obvious causes for concern I still feel the FO deserves 3 years to see where things are. Year 3 will be interesting to say the least but for me it’s about winning a W.S. and if the Mets can win a W.S. either next year or say 2014 then I will look back on this season as being worth it for me. Of course if the opposite occurs and they continue to struggle then change will be needed and the 3 to 5 year clock will start once again for the next GM.

Keep Ike, please!

A Rotation of Harvey, Niese, R.A. Dickey, Santanna and eventually Wheeler is not too damned bad. Especially if say Wheeler and Harvey live up to even some of the Hype. You potential have a group of 15 game winners though, I doubt you ever get more than 25 to 28 starts out of Santanna ever again.

This team needs consistant offense.
Get rid of Bay! Please eat the damned contract and just waive him, he is an albatross on this team.

Trade Duda to an American league team.

The Infield is solid, trade D Murph to an American League team, he too is a DH in waiting. put Valdespin at second.

The outfield is a project to say the least but, I can live with Den Dekker, Capt Kirk and trade for an outfielder that has some pop, or some speed.

The Bullpen, what a huge mess this is.. Get Rid of Francisco! Who made this stupid decision? What a waste of $12 million! Keep Parnell, Josh Egdrin, Have Familia work on making one of his off speed pitches a plus plus offering this offseason and keep him in the pen. Also Keep Carsons and send him to work on the same thing is Familia, and oh yeah Trade Meija to a team looking for a starter with a power arm, for a solid relief pitcher. That seems like a good start.

Resign Wright and R.A. now before they have even better seasons next year and price themselves out of the Mets pockets (especially if they do not get new ownership. Which we know they wont)

I certainly do, but the question had to be asked. If Sandy was a great architect, what happened to his architectural skills when he was still thinking ahead of other general managers as far as saber metrics and Bill James was concerned? What happened to the architect then and even more importantly, as so many were praising the Met hiring of Sandy, why was that second half of his career with Oakland just over-looked? When the A’s were in the world series three straight years, where was that necessary planning for the future?

In 1990, for example:

Starting outfielders Rickey and Dave Henderson were both 31.
Third baseman Carney Lansford was 34
Platoon second baseman Willie Randolph was 35

Their better days were behind them.

Their top three starters – Dave Stewert, Bob Welch and Scott Sanderson were already 33.
Their closer, Dennis Eckersly, was 35
Another top reliever, Rick Honneycutt, was 36

That’s nine key players that were not going to be in Oakland’s future. There were many others, however still in their prime. With the talent still at hand, an architect as good as Sandy was would have been at least able to take measures to keep the club going strong instead of finding itself fighting for last place for most of the decade. Where were the shrewd trades of some of these older players, the signing of undervalued talent and kids coming up from the minors who would slowly take over to continue that good blend of veterans and youngsters?

Again, the question has to be asked of why did Oakland suddenly fall so far, why were the measures taken to prevent that fall from grace (as with Atlanta, etc.) not successful and was Sandy really the astute analytical mind that put those great earlier teams together? The answers might provide some insight as to why we are in the position we are today.

they are spending 95-100 mill this year and likely next. That is in the top 1/2 of all of MLB.

you can’t just look at new or incremental spending each year. It is the total that is relevant to the team. Basically, with the new reality of what the team can support in total, just about all the available payroll was pre-spent a few years ago.
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and enough with the “why didn’t they trade Reyes” line. Even if you assume that they never wanted him (as opposed to the stated fact that they did, but not at what the Marlins were willing to pay), he had NO trade value once you hit July, considering that right when the trade market was heating up, he blew a hammy and went down. And late in July, it was obvious that he was still hobbled and limited.

so even if they wanted to trade him, and he had a big return coming, what team was giving up some top prospects in late July for a speed guy that could not run, and frankly looked like he was about to go down at any time. And based on how weak he was up until the last few weeks of the year, that was justified!

As bad a season as Ike has had it’s still better than anything this FO has accomplished in 2 years!
And if god forbid Wheeler gets hurt and busts they will have achieved NOTHING in two years worth of trying!

This FO now may want to trade Ike Davis – why? No money
They fire the AAA pitching coach for not getting with their program – why? No money
Dave Hudgens has basically destroyed the entire roster taking the killer instinct out of them in favor of “strategically trying to get the SP out of the game by working deep counts” which leads to a better chance of the SP using his out pitch.

Why? No money, blame the Wilpons

I think a lot of people got caught up in the “myth” of Sandy Alderson than the reality, giving him credit where it was not due.

Let us take the example of Oakland. Yes, I will even – for the moment – put aside the Bill Rigney issue and begin with a totally inexperienced Sandy Alderson – whom said he had no professional knowledge of the game and 30 years later still admitted he could not explain what was wrong with Ike Davis anything more than being an “observer” – having been the architect of those Oakland clubs from day one.

What we are told is that through an emphasis on statistical analysis and educating himself through the writing of Bill James, he used that knowledge to determine which draft picks to select and placed a major focus keeping the minor league stocked with good, raw talent year after year. In addition, based on his analytical understanding of advanced stats he was able to ascertain the hidden things that made teams successful and under-appreciated by the baseball establishment. In addition, this enabled him to pick out players glossed over by other teams due to others not recognizing their underlying value in lieu of traditional lines of thinking.

If so, then when Oakland was making it’s great run, according to his resume, he would have still been looking years ahead and not lose sight of the importance of a well stocked minor league system, slowly replacing established stars who are getting on in years with either these younger players or those already in the majors undervalued by other teams. So he would not have a team get old all at once. Even if it meant not producing championship clubs, it still meant keeping the club competitive.

Oakland bounced back from a sub-par 1991 in which they fell to fourth to win the division once more the following season. But then the team tanked and there was no back up contingencies already in place to assure the transition would be brief. There were few young players on the horizon good enough to replace the aging players. There was no undervalued talent obtained via trades or free agency. They went from finishing first to finishing last and there began a seven year stretch of sub .500 ball which included many a last place finish.

If Sandy was the architect of those great Oakland clubs then he must also be seen as the architect of those dismal ones as well. And the question must then be asked of how a man who still had the advantage of being ahead of the curve with sabermetrics and not hampered by severe financial restrictions until after the 1995 season produced two such opposite eras of quality? Why did Oakland not remain at least steady over the years like we have seen with St. Louis, Atlanta, Detroit and the White Sox which maybe had one poor year before they bounced back?

Why was Sandy with all his advanced insight and advantages over others unable to keep the team at least remaining competitive? Was it just the odds catching up with him? Or was it possibly that the amount of control and influence he had regarding baseball matters was over-rated, despite the praise he gets from Billy Beane?

It is interesting to note how much praise Beane gives Sandy considering that Billy himself only began working under Sandy after Alderson sent him down to the minor leagues at the end of spring training in April 1990 and he then asked Sandy for a job as an advance scout which then started Beane’s career off in the front office. Sandy then promoted Billy to Assistant GM of the Athletics in 1993 At that time, Oakland went from 96 to 68 wins, it’s first of seven consecutive losing seasons. The minor league system was not producing, the trades were not producing, the change in the roster was not producing. It might not be much about baseball that Sandy Alderson taught Billy as it was teaching him the ropes about working in the front office. That would create a personal bond with any of us.

So much myth, the stuff that best selling books are made of.