18
2012
Why The Alderson Regime Has Been A Failure So Far
An article by Barry Duchan
When Sandy Alderson was hired as Mets’ GM, most Mets’ fans were overjoyed. Alderson had a track record of success and was also an articulate spokesman who promised to keep the fans informed of the Mets’ plans and to make every fan feel more a part of the Mets than ever before.
We soon learned that the Wilpons were cash-strapped and that high-price free agent signings were unlikely. Nevertheless, among Alderson and his soon-to-be-hired aides, Paul DePodesta, and J.P. Ricciardi, fans felt they were getting some of the best talent evaluators in the game, men who specialized in finding talent in players that other teams found wanting. So, the Mets weren’t going to be players for Albert Pujols, Yu Darvish, or Jonathan Papelbon. Maybe we could still be contenders with some judicious signings, waiver pickups, and cagey deals.
Unfortunately, the two-year performance of this Mets’ front office has been pathetic. Trades brought the Mets the likes of Chin-Lung Hu, Ramon Ramirez and Andres Torres. More importantly, not trading Jose Reyes and then letting him walk as a free-agent was a ridiculous move. Trading Beltran for Wheeler just may turn out to be a good or even great move if the scouts are right, but this is a team that needed to be much more active in the trade market.
The free-agent signings of players such as Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch when pitchers such as Fernando Rodney, Clay Rapada, and Wei-Yen Chin were available (to name just a few) and at considerably lower cost is unforgivable.
You might say hindsight is 20-20, but I say when you hire three former general managers, they should be able to evaluate major league-ready talent. Reconstructing the Mets’ bullpen appeared to be goal #1 last off-season and let’s face it, Sandy and Co. did an awful job of allocating their resources to do so and have even admitted as much.
I expected this regime to be much more creative in finding talent whether from Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, or the independent leagues. Look at the players the Mets have signed in the last 2 years. Have any of them made any kind of impact in the major leagues, aside from the one great catch Mike Baxter made to preserve Santana’s no-hitter? I suppose you could make a case for Scott Hairston who the Mets should have traded for a prospect before this year’s deadline, and maybe Tim Byrdak who I suppose is better than no loogy at all, if that’s saying very much, but I really expected more.
Let’s see what happens this off-season, but I’m not getting my hopes up. I understand the Mets are not going to be playing “checkbook baseball” for a while, but that doesn’t mean they can’t pick up some new players who can actually make us fans look forward to next season.
About the Author: Barry Duchan
I've been following the Mets since 1962. Have to admit I was a Yankee fan as a kid, but I found it to be so much more interesting to see how a young team could build itself up rather than following a team where the season didn't really begin until October. I remember them all - Casey, Marv, ChooChoo, Don Bosch, The Stork, etc. As the years went on, I became more and more of a Mets fan, and a Yankee hater once Steinbrenner and Billy Martin entered the picture. After retiring, I relocated with my family from Long Island to Chapel Hill, NC in 2005. I spend a lot of my time now checking out all the various Mets blogs. Fortunately, I still get to watch almost all of the Mets games (except those that are blacked out here).
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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“When Sandy Alderson was hired as Mets’ GM, most Mets’ fans were overjoyed”
Overjoyed is an understatement
“Alderson and his soon-to-be-hired aides, Paul DePodesta, and J.P. Ricciardi, fans felt they were getting some of the best talent evaluators in the game, men who specialized in finding talent in players that other teams found wanting”
Which is exactly what most of us were/still are complaining about, but somehow we get called haters or that somehow it’s personal with SA
“Unfortunately, the two-year performance of this Mets’ front office has been pathetic”
To say the least
“The free-agent signings of players such as Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch when pitchers such as Fernando Rodney, Clay Rapada, and Wei-Yen Chin were available (to name just a few) and at considerably lower cost is unforgivable”
While that can be viewed as second guessing, if they knew they didn’t have a lot to spend during the offseason, why spent 75% of the money available on 3 bums is what most of us argued!!!
“understand the Mets are not going to be playing “checkbook baseball” for a while, but that doesn’t mean they can’t pick up some new players who can actually make us fans look forward to next season”
Problem is, they have no plan. noone has any idea of what’s going on with the franchise. but no matter what anyone say to me, it’s not looking any better or brighter any time soon under this GM
Very good article, the CORE salute you…..
Well I wholeheartedy Agree Barry…
Most people thought when Sandy first came here that he was going to turn all those All Stars into a bushel of kids that would win a WS in just a few short years the way the Marlins did when they had a firesale….
Three All Stars are out to door and the total return for that amounts to not much more than Zach Wheeler!
And now people seem to be scrambling to pick out GOOD players that remain to go get those kids they thought they were going to have but didn’t get!
Hence the Trade Wright talk as if this FO is going to get anything worth trading for considering how little they have gotten in the past!
Now Ike Davis trade rumors have been started and why? Because you SHOULD be able to get something for a guy who hits close to 30 HRs a season in a down year at the plate!
Murphy has been one of our most consistent contributors but he too should get sent packing for something.
When they are all done we will move onto Trading Tejada who could get us something because he has no power or speed and is no good as a Leadoff Hitter.
Flores will come up for Wright but there will be so many (created by the FO) Holes that it makes sense to trade him too to fill them.
And when the Kid SPs can’t win more than 10 games due to the decimation of the lineup of any hitters who can drive in runs we will then move them out too because if you can’t win with them then what is the point in having them! Dickey who is up for the Cy Young will be gone long before then too!
We should just go the extra mile here and bring Torre in to manage them so we can relive those thrilling days of the late 70′s!
Pelfrey will play the role of the headcase Pat Zachry.
This isn’t going to end well and the part that upsets me is not that Sandy will fail but that the guy behind him will be in such a deep hole he couldn’t fix it even if he was the best GM to ever run a franchise!
Other than Reyes, Wright, or Santana, who on the Mets 2011 roster would any other team have wanted? Dickey, maybe? Even now the trade chips are few unless you are giving up Wright, or Niese and that’s because everyone wants a fairly inexpensive and young lefty and may give you something decent in return. They need to draft power hitters in the outfield and sign internationally. I follow a Dominican website that shows all of the young talent as they sign with the MLB. Everyone of the big power hitters have been signed for this year by teams like the Astros and A’s! The Mets don’t want to spend and that’s always the issue. When the Astros are signing young power bats and we don’t what does that say?
Its not about who we had that someone wanted…
It’s about what we got back for the guys they wanted!
If your not getting back more than you give it really doesn’t matter that the player you traded was wanted by someone…Obviously they weren’t wanted enough to give something good up for them!
And if they WERE willing we sure didn’t get it!
Follow the money trail….or lack thereof. Which is really depressing for us Met fans.
Check for yourselves. Click on transactions. Hell, even the Pirates have signed hitters out of this league. http://dplbaseball.com/
There is truth in the idea that so far it has not been successful at the big league level. Assuming that the overall goal wasn’t just to slash payroll and keep the team on life support. However, as I have said it is much too early to judge the total results at this point IMO. Again, to each his own.
Metsie, we already know each others opinions on this so lets just skip the responses today.
Here is a response we haven’t discussed…
If it is too soon to hold Sandy accountable then it is also too soon to hold:
Ike Davis
Lucas Duda
Terry Collins
Josh Thole
Daniel Murphy
Kirk Niewenhuis
Jodany Valdespin
Accountable as not good enough to win a championship!
Yet everyday the Sandy folks want to trade them all as not good enough….
Gonna take up that fight?
‘Let’s see what happens this off-season, but I’m not getting my hopes up. I understand the Mets are not going to be playing “checkbook baseball” for a while, but that doesn’t mean they can’t pick up some new players who can actually make us fans look forward to next season.’
While I agree with this 100%, I believe the Mets are still broke and won’t be spending any money this off season. Part of that is what we’re all seeing….half empty park and down revenues.
If they’re going to improve the team, it’s probably mostly going to be done via trades.
Who goes? Who stays? Should be interesting, to say the least.
BLAME THE WILPONS….
here is where they deserve blame…
They hired a guy who would never ask them for money….
Not as many do because they feel tey won’t put thier own money into an unprofitable business!
I’ve been saying from day 1 this is the worst front office money can buy and they’ve proven me right.
Both google boy and Ricciardi failed as gm’s. There’s a reason for over a decade Alderson was never hired as a GM and we are seeing that now. This front office has cost us Reyes, most likely Wright and now they’re going to get rid of Ike. 3 guys you build around not let walk away or trade away. And they have done nothing to improve this team.
Nice article. Sandy missed the opportunity of tradding Cappy also.
Bring back Nelson Doubleday! If it wasn’t for his insistence that they make the trade, Piazza would have never been a Met. Wilponzi was adamant that they not make the trade. It wasn’t until Doubleday sold the team to Wilponzi that everything started to fall apart.
Hi Barry,
I think a lot of people got caught up in the “myth” of Sandy Alderson than the reality, giving him credit where it was not due.
Let us take the example of Oakland. Yes, I will even – for the moment – put aside the Bill Rigney issue and begin with a totally inexperienced Sandy Alderson – whom said he had no professional knowledge of the game and 30 years later still admitted he could not explain what was wrong with Ike Davis anything more than being an “observer” – having been the architect of those Oakland clubs from day one.
What we are told is that through an emphasis on statistical analysis and educating himself through the writing of Bill James, he used that knowledge to determine which draft picks to select and placed a major focus keeping the minor league stocked with good, raw talent year after year. In addition, based on his analytical understanding of advanced stats he was able to ascertain the hidden things that made teams successful and under-appreciated by the baseball establishment. In addition, this enabled him to pick out players glossed over by other teams due to others not recognizing their underlying value in lieu of traditional lines of thinking.
If so, then when Oakland was making it’s great run, according to his resume, he would have still been looking years ahead and not lose sight of the importance of a well stocked minor league system, slowly replacing established stars who are getting on in years with either these younger players or those already in the majors undervalued by other teams. So he would not have a team get old all at once. Even if it meant not producing championship clubs, it still meant keeping the club competitive.
Oakland bounced back from a sub-par 1991 in which they fell to fourth to win the division once more the following season. But then the team tanked and there was no back up contingencies already in place to assure the transition would be brief. There were few young players on the horizon good enough to replace the aging players. There was no undervalued talent obtained via trades or free agency. They went from finishing first to finishing last and there began a seven year stretch of sub .500 ball which included many a last place finish.
If Sandy was the architect of those great Oakland clubs then he must also be seen as the architect of those dismal ones as well. And the question must then be asked of how a man who still had the advantage of being ahead of the curve with sabermetrics and not hampered by severe financial restrictions until after the 1995 season produced two such opposite eras of quality? Why did Oakland not remain at least steady over the years like we have seen with St. Louis, Atlanta, Detroit and the White Sox which maybe had one poor year before they bounced back?
Why was Sandy with all his advanced insight and advantages over others unable to keep the team at least remaining competitive? Was it just the odds catching up with him? Or was it possibly that the amount of control and influence he had regarding baseball matters was over-rated, despite the praise he gets from Billy Beane?
It is interesting to note how much praise Beane gives Sandy considering that Billy himself only began working under Sandy after Alderson sent him down to the minor leagues at the end of spring training in April 1990 and he then asked Sandy for a job as an advance scout which then started Beane’s career off in the front office. Sandy then promoted Billy to Assistant GM of the Athletics in 1993 At that time, Oakland went from 96 to 68 wins, it’s first of seven consecutive losing seasons. The minor league system was not producing, the trades were not producing, the change in the roster was not producing. It might not be much about baseball that Sandy Alderson taught Billy as it was teaching him the ropes about working in the front office. That would create a personal bond with any of us.
So much myth, the stuff that best selling books are made of.
No offense Joey but good God you know where this will lead.
Hi TRS,
I certainly do, but the question had to be asked. If Sandy was a great architect, what happened to his architectural skills when he was still thinking ahead of other general managers as far as saber metrics and Bill James was concerned? What happened to the architect then and even more importantly, as so many were praising the Met hiring of Sandy, why was that second half of his career with Oakland just over-looked? When the A’s were in the world series three straight years, where was that necessary planning for the future?
In 1990, for example:
Starting outfielders Rickey and Dave Henderson were both 31.
Third baseman Carney Lansford was 34
Platoon second baseman Willie Randolph was 35
Their better days were behind them.
Their top three starters – Dave Stewert, Bob Welch and Scott Sanderson were already 33.
Their closer, Dennis Eckersly, was 35
Another top reliever, Rick Honneycutt, was 36
That’s nine key players that were not going to be in Oakland’s future. There were many others, however still in their prime. With the talent still at hand, an architect as good as Sandy was would have been at least able to take measures to keep the club going strong instead of finding itself fighting for last place for most of the decade. Where were the shrewd trades of some of these older players, the signing of undervalued talent and kids coming up from the minors who would slowly take over to continue that good blend of veterans and youngsters?
Again, the question has to be asked of why did Oakland suddenly fall so far, why were the measures taken to prevent that fall from grace (as with Atlanta, etc.) not successful and was Sandy really the astute analytical mind that put those great earlier teams together? The answers might provide some insight as to why we are in the position we are today.
Generic Sandy apologist excuse coming…………………………………………………………………………………..”They have no money”……………………..lol…..
Yep,
This FO now may want to trade Ike Davis – why? No money
They fire the AAA pitching coach for not getting with their program – why? No money
Dave Hudgens has basically destroyed the entire roster taking the killer instinct out of them in favor of “strategically trying to get the SP out of the game by working deep counts” which leads to a better chance of the SP using his out pitch.
Why? No money, blame the Wilpons
For all the hype these front office guys had coming in, they’ve performed much like Lastings Milledge and F-Mart so far. I’m not impressed.
Many here misread it the word hype and thought they said HOPE!
As bad a season as Ike has had it’s still better than anything this FO has accomplished in 2 years!
And if god forbid Wheeler gets hurt and busts they will have achieved NOTHING in two years worth of trying!
BLAME THE WILPONS!
where does this nonsense that the FO/owners (IOW, the Mets) aren’t “spending money”
they are spending 95-100 mill this year and likely next. That is in the top 1/2 of all of MLB.
you can’t just look at new or incremental spending each year. It is the total that is relevant to the team. Basically, with the new reality of what the team can support in total, just about all the available payroll was pre-spent a few years ago.
\
and enough with the “why didn’t they trade Reyes” line. Even if you assume that they never wanted him (as opposed to the stated fact that they did, but not at what the Marlins were willing to pay), he had NO trade value once you hit July, considering that right when the trade market was heating up, he blew a hammy and went down. And late in July, it was obvious that he was still hobbled and limited.
so even if they wanted to trade him, and he had a big return coming, what team was giving up some top prospects in late July for a speed guy that could not run, and frankly looked like he was about to go down at any time. And based on how weak he was up until the last few weeks of the year, that was justified!
Actually they are below 95 Mil and spending 93M
Cots contracts have them at 94.5m for 27 players not counting Shop. Payroll is usually counted as your 40 man so Stick is correct.
I would love to see a full season of play from Valdespin..Find him a postion play him and see what he can do. My guess is .250 to 280 with 20 homers which would make him a star at second base.
Keep Ike, please!
A Rotation of Harvey, Niese, R.A. Dickey, Santanna and eventually Wheeler is not too damned bad. Especially if say Wheeler and Harvey live up to even some of the Hype. You potential have a group of 15 game winners though, I doubt you ever get more than 25 to 28 starts out of Santanna ever again.
This team needs consistant offense.
Get rid of Bay! Please eat the damned contract and just waive him, he is an albatross on this team.
Trade Duda to an American league team.
The Infield is solid, trade D Murph to an American League team, he too is a DH in waiting. put Valdespin at second.
The outfield is a project to say the least but, I can live with Den Dekker, Capt Kirk and trade for an outfielder that has some pop, or some speed.
The Bullpen, what a huge mess this is.. Get Rid of Francisco! Who made this stupid decision? What a waste of $12 million! Keep Parnell, Josh Egdrin, Have Familia work on making one of his off speed pitches a plus plus offering this offseason and keep him in the pen. Also Keep Carsons and send him to work on the same thing is Familia, and oh yeah Trade Meija to a team looking for a starter with a power arm, for a solid relief pitcher. That seems like a good start.
Resign Wright and R.A. now before they have even better seasons next year and price themselves out of the Mets pockets (especially if they do not get new ownership. Which we know they wont)
Man please don’t make me watch Vspin play 2b and swing as hard as he can every pitch.
Understanding the need to express displeasure at what has been just a horrible 2nd half. Once past that (easier said than done) their still remains the point that the team up to now has continued to allow time for players down on the farm to develop. If pitching is what the team is banking on to be how they turn the team around by making it a strength then it comes down to does one believe that players like Niese, Harvey, Edgin, Familia, Mejia, Wheeler can be part of what makes that difference?
There is no argument that moves made have not panned out. Primarily the bullpen and is cause for concern and while there has been some pickups that have pitched well in large part like Izzy, Byrdak and Rauch they have not been good enough to offset many of the other arms like Carrasco, Beato or R. Ramirez for example.
They gambled with Thole and lost. Torres hitting was always a question and outside of a brief run to start the 2nd half his bat has been subpar. His glove in the ned never really impressed me as being that much better than Pagans and Pagans left much to be desired for me to begin with so that doesn’t say much for Torres. Still he was but a place holder for Kirk N. and Kirk was overall very productive as a rookie even with the strikeouts up to the Rays series this season. Kirk’s numbers were comparable to what Pagan put up during that same span. I still feel Kirk will be starting at CF for the Mets before all is said and done. He made some mistakes out there but he showed enough where I think he could play CF at Citi now if it is in a platoon situation remains to be seen.
I don’t dismiss the possibility of Davis being traded but at this time I am of the opinion they would only do so as part of some huge deal that answers their need at some other position be it outfield, catcher or possibly 2nd base.
This is without getting into what I still am waiting for some type of explanation on and that is how do you fail to sign half of your 1sy year layer draft picks? Which only irritates me every time I think of it.
Overall while anyone is free and entitled to pass judgement overall on the Mets FO thus far and many already have as much as it may bother some my opinion continues to be that while there are obvious causes for concern I still feel the FO deserves 3 years to see where things are. Year 3 will be interesting to say the least but for me it’s about winning a W.S. and if the Mets can win a W.S. either next year or say 2014 then I will look back on this season as being worth it for me. Of course if the opposite occurs and they continue to struggle then change will be needed and the 3 to 5 year clock will start once again for the next GM.
They need to start spending on the younger players. Ok to not spend on overpriced free agents like the CF for Tampa will be..but you cannot let draft picks slide because you dont like their slotting price, nor can you ignore players from other countries because of of $$. They are a big market team and they need to start acting like it or sell the team. They can get out and get big $$ and pay off debts etc and let someone else try and succeed owning the team. Clearly this group of ownership has not succeeded at all in the last 25 years.. This is a disgrace of a team.
Pagan is either tied for or leading the NL in triples, even if he is hitting in spacious AT&T park, but he could of done almost the same at Citi plus he has stolen bases and can play CF very well so SA trading him for a supposedly LH batter specialist in Ramirez with Torres as a throw in was a terrible move as this season has shown so who scouted Ramirez to then make him a valuable LH specialist was a terrible move.
Maybe this FO is a talent evaluator for players not yet in Majors but how far have they been willing to search for this talent or are they under the thumb of Major League Baseball, Selig, telling them to stick to only certain areas in searching for talent, just asking.
The fact that Wilpons had no money, FO had to know this, made many of their promises unlikely and gave false hope to fans.
Now the word is “all” players are trade bait to try and cover up the FO lack of moves over the past 3 years and in season to make fans not notice the incompetence of not getting talent back for Jose while saying that they would “really” work at signing him when they really knew that they wouldn’t and then blame it on Reyes when they knew that there was no money in the coffer to spend!
We as fans have been lied to, taken for fools, been given double talk and false hope plus told that they were really working hard to improve team, yeah right!
How can we as fans believe anything we are told now?
While his being on trade block is not wrong but whom do the FO have to fill in defensively and with power to replace Ike at 1B?
Duda, really? I can see their playing him there to increase trade value but if Ike has a problem against LH pitchers then he can’t work on that on the bench.
Maybe send Ike to Winter Ball to work on this plus improve his foot work around 1B but to seriously trade our only trun LH power bat w/o having another option is crazy.
This FO will try again this off season to build up fans hopes with leaked comments and subtle words to reporters but fans are on to this already and SA along with other FO people along with Wilpons need to consider the ramifications of lack of forward movement and improvement.
Oh, lastly, how did that hitting philosophy of working pitchers by Hudgins work out?
Against regular or young pitchers it might work but the good pitchers use this to their advantage, as seen this season, to put batter in 0-1 hole that made them let good pitch go bye or become defensive at plate.
Bad, bad idea.
“We as fans have been lied to, taken for fools, been given double talk and false hope plus told that they were really working hard to improve team, yeah right!”
Hi Sarge,
Guess Sandy Alderson thinks the players have false hopes too and that is why he did nothing this year and pulled the rug out from underneath last season.
I’m kind of surprised more players are not speaking up about this. Yes we had RA Dickey address it last year when he felt they were abandoned and in so many words David Wright implicated as such in his “baby steps” comments.
I’m just surprised more players don’t speak up about things like that. At least with Frank Cashen when he stated his 5 year rebuilding plan (and he inherited a MUCH WORSE team) at least we had the hope of trying to win every year along with rebuilding.
I don’t understand how not more players are speaking up about playing for a front office that’s not even trying to win and not only that but practically giving up on them 2 straight years. And that is something that no matter what happens going forward that i can NEVER forgive this FO for doing – giving up and giving up TWICE. Who wants to come here and play for these guys if thats’ the case? And also how do we know that maybe Alderson is not popular with other GMs?
I’m not they just want to play baseball and usually don’t talk back about the boss until they leave!
Hi Bayonne,
Could it be that except for R.A. the rest of the team understood they really were not that good as some have implied and thus those like Davis, Duda, Murphy, Gee, Niese, etc. were wiser in knowing their future was ahead of them and better times meant the discarding of veterans for prospects while with Dickey it was only a matter of seeing things for the now?
Or it might simply be that because their future is not yet secure financially, they feel best to remain quiet whereas the veteran players can be more open with their thoughts.