MMO Fair or Foul: Are You Still With 28?

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• Russell Zanca September 10, 2012 at 8:10 am

  So much mediocrity and it translates into raises. Geez, you’d think they all work on Wall Street!
• gorgeguy September 10, 2012 at 8:38 am

  I don’t see Murph as overly flawed nor mediocre. However, I do see the problem in having both Dude-A and Murph together: They just don’t seem to create havoc together.

  Dude-A and Hairston may make an acceptable platoon in left, but I’m even doubting that idea as I’ve seen more weaknesses in Hairston’s bat. Even against lefties, Scott hasn’t hit a HR in a long time.

  The reality is the Mets need a lead-off guy, one who probably also plays a solid defensive center. I don’t want an FA for this slot, especially not the soon-to-be “free” Bourn. Murph has more value than most other Mets and he plays a spot that the Mets can fill internally (Spin gets first crack then Wilmer).

  Hate to see him go but he’s less valuable to the team than other Mets who have been bandied about as trade-bait.
• Hawk September 10, 2012 at 8:43 am

  I can’t watch Duda anymore.
  He never looks like he’s running and it doesn’t seem as if he’s trying to be better, at least you can see Murphy trying to better himself. Our organization has to stop seeing hitters who can’t field and trying to find a spot for them on defense where they can hurt us the least. You can’t have multiple Murphy, Duda players on one team.
  How about looking for well rounded players.
  I can’t stand our over staffed FO.
• USMF September 10, 2012 at 9:28 am

  Murph does have speed, he just doesn’t have the quickness or instincts to become a base stealer.

  I think Murph is still trying to learn what kind of hitter he’s going to be. He’s showed more power and the ability to pull and drive in the past, but it seems he’s happy to be slapping it the other way. Maybe that’s part of the Mets approach this year?

  Someone made a good point the other day on the broadcast. You can’t tell young hitters to hit for power or expect them to. You just teach them how to hit and the power will come naturally and develop over four years or so. That was a criticism over how the Mets handled Duda and Ike, but I think it’s relevant to Murph too.

  As for Murph not being an everyday player because he’s a little worn down? Really? He’s played almost every day and has 133 games under his belt, more than he’s played in a long time. Everyone get’s worn down…it’s a rare player who can be productive for 162 games a year.

  The real problem with the Mets isn’t Murph…the table setters like Murph and Tejada have done their job…Torres and Thole haven’t…the big run producers haven’t done their job…Duda has been a let down, Wright has had one great half and one poor half…Ike had on very bad half and one decent half and Bay hasn’t done anything.

  Don’t blame the table setters for not driving in runs when the guys who are supposed to drive in runs aren’t doing it.
• Des September 10, 2012 at 9:49 am

  There isn’t a team in baseball with a lineup of All-Stars. If you want to build a team, you have to attack your weakest links. Murphy is actually one of the team’s better players, certainly not a weak link.

  Murphy has put up a lot of good numbers for the Mets this year. Of the Mets position players with 50 or more games, Murphy ranking:
  AVG 2
  SLG 7
  H 2
  2B 2

  Since the All Star break, his ranking within position players with 30 or more games:
  AVG 3
  SLG 6
  H 2
  2B 1
  3B 2

  Murphy has good speed, contradicting what our lying eyes tell some of us. During the 2008 spring training he beat David Wright repeatedly in some 30 yard dashes. With an infield of Davis, Murphy, Tejada and Wright, Daniel is the speediest, if not the quickest. He beats Davis hands down and he beats Tejada by a step or two.

  Couthino cites durability issues with Murphy who was recently given some time off in August for admitting to being out of gas. “That’s a signal he is not an everyday player.” Couthino must have missed Wright’s days off and those too of Tejada. There isn’t a Mets player who hasn’t benefited from a day or two off. (One of Willie’s and Jerry’s common failings is their grinding players like Wright into the ground. Willie used to say Wright is a ‘grinder.’) With the travel, late nights, and erratic schedule, every player needs an occasional break. So Couthino is wrong, and I wonder if he really has a feel for the current game of baseball and its physical demands.
  • Metsr1 September 10, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Zzzzzz! It amazes me that whenever there is an anti “Goldenboy” article by Met fans who don’t watch the games with rose colored glasses on, you cry. Take the “I’m with 28″ thongs off already. He is average at best. On a decent team, he never sees the field…get over it.
    • Alex68 September 10, 2012 at 11:03 am

      LOL….
    • Des September 10, 2012 at 11:40 am

      Metsr1 — ‘Average at best’ Aren’t you a latter day fan!. You’ve come a long way baby from your days of ‘cement hands’ and other attempts to act like you know what you’re talking about while disparaging Murphy. Congratulations on donning the baseball glasses.
      • Metsr1 September 10, 2012 at 1:35 pm

        When I said he was “average at best” was me being kind. I didn’t want you to have to take your medication. So you went to baseball-reference.com and found some silly numbers to justify your logic; however anyone that watches the Mets everyday can see what your lying eyes apparently can’t!
        • Des September 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm

          Metsr1 — When it comes to Murphy, you’ve never exhibited either fairness or kindness. You just have your timeworn diatribes. In fact most of your hatred borders on superficial nastiness. You have never commented on any substantive baseball issue here on MMO. If you have, please tell us.
          • Metsr1 September 10, 2012 at 2:06 pm

            I am a 40 year plus true Met fan who can’t stand Murphy. Yes, you are correct about my hatred. He is beloved by folks like you for silly reasons like…”he’s home grown”, or “he hustles”. One of those two can win you an extra game or two a year, the other is stupid. Murphy is a piece of cardboard and will never be anything more than the Punch and Judy hitter that he is, with little else. He has only five homers! Two at Wrigley where the wind was blowing out at 35 MPH. Give me a break. Now what other topic do you want me to touch on since Murphy is all I write about?
            • Metsie September 10, 2012 at 2:20 pm

              Tell me somthing Metsr1….

              Who is worse?

              Murphy?

              Or
              Torres
              Thole
              Ramirez

              Tell me why you should hate Murphy and want to see him gone before those three losers?
              And if you don’t think he is worse then them why not channel that hate towards the guys who are MUCH WORSE, MORE EXPENSIVE than Murphy first?
              • TRS86 September 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm

                Because it’s the same reason that many hate Wright. It’s not that they can think of a better guy it’s that he has been “praised and thought too highly of” by fans and someone else hasn’t been.
                • Metsr1 September 11, 2012 at 1:53 pm

                  My opinion of Bay is this. In typical Met fashion, the Mets had a choice of Bay or Matt Holiday that off season. They were in dire need of a LF. Holiday wanted a few bucks more than Bay, so naturally they (Minaya and The Wilponzi’s) chose Bay. Then they gave us tons of BS to demonstrate why Bay was a better fit. It was propaganda at best. The Mets had to make it out of this season with him, but will need to cut him in the spring ala Castillo and Perez, since no other team is foolish enough to trade for him. If some team does, it would be because they feel he’ll finally produce in his walk year. Simply put Bay is done. What always drove me nuts is to have heard Minaya say that they went the less expensive route to have funds available at the trade deadline. Then come the deadline, they’d do nothing.
                  • TRS86 September 11, 2012 at 2:22 pm

                    Thanks, I agree with all of that except I did not want Holliday either. While he is light-years better than Bay he is still signed for a long, long, time. Turns out it is working though.

                    Sometimes the best move is the non-move I guess is what I am saying. I hope they return to reasonable spending as well. It does not have to be the 145M level but they do need to be able to spend the money on needed players. Example if they believe that BJ Upton is a fit then there is no reason with Bay and Johan’s money coming off after next year that they shouldn’t be able to come up with an enticing package for him, leaving the choice up to him. However, what I want to stay away from is signing someone just because we are supposed to sign someone. To me that is how you get stuck with the Bay’s, Castillo’s and Perez’s. Listening a little too much to the fan pressures instead of taking a step back to look at what is actually needed.
                  • stick September 11, 2012 at 2:55 pm

                    TRS, the real issue is contract timing. That is, not having all the big deals expiring at the same time. ideally you will have some coming off the books each year, so that you have the flexibility to add new parts each season.

                    that way, you don’t end up with a yar like 2012, when nothing of consequence is expiring.

                    it would be much different if say bay came off this year, and Santana next (or vice versa).

                    at least that way you are able to spend each off season, without it meaning increasing overall payroll. that is very handy when you live on a tight budget!
                  • TRS86 September 11, 2012 at 3:02 pm

                    But it’s all about the end point as well. Say we did find a way to get Upton for 3/36 with an option but paid him 6M for 2013. Then after 2013 we still need a RH power bat so we sign that player to a 4 year 48M deal. Still have your Bay and Johan money spent with some left over but as you said not ending at the same time which is very important as well.
              • Metsr1 September 10, 2012 at 9:19 pm

                Trust me when I tell you, Metsie. I have no love for those guys as well. I’ll add Duda to that list. I hate that he shows no fire or emotion. He just looks miserable all of the time. He should try and crack a smile some time. As a long time Met fan, I guess I’m frustrated that some Met fans ala Des, seem to want to hang onto players simply because they are homegrown despite the warts. I want this team to stop shopping for bottom of the barrel players that cost less and add nothing to the team.
                • Trs86 September 10, 2012 at 9:21 pm

                  So what’s your opinion on Jason Bay?
                  • Metsie September 10, 2012 at 10:48 pm

                    We don’t need a fake Kevin Burkhardt in here so either tell us what YOU think about something for once….Get that fence out of your butt cheeks!
                • Metsie September 10, 2012 at 10:47 pm

                  I’m sure you do Metsr thats why I picked them…and didn’t slam you the way the other have here….

                  I made the saame points to Bayonne and Alex awhile back, While I respect your opinion regarding Murphy (or in thier case Wright) there are MUCH bigger fish to fry around here!

                  I think we need to focus on whats the biggest problem around here and leave the distractions and diversions to the Sandy side since thats pretty much all they have these days!
                  • Metsr1 September 11, 2012 at 11:17 am

                    Here-here. Just wish they would loosen the purse strings a little bit and stop trying to get by with quadruple A (AAAA) type players.
                  • TRS86 September 11, 2012 at 11:19 am

                    Metsr, again I am curious what your opinion of Jason Bay is?
                  • Metsie September 11, 2012 at 11:37 am

                    TRS you should contact my agent if you wish to conduct an interview with me…I would much rather hear you tell us what YOU think of Bay!

                    I already am on record saying he should be cut!

                    Metsr1 – Yep they need to go and put some money on the line to fix this team but I sure don’t expect them to even put enough money on the line to keep Wright! I fully expect he gets traded unless Wilpon panics over the PR mess he will deal with for years to come, and tells Sandy not to trade him but extend him whatever the cost.

                    And by taking on Money doesn’t have to mean go sign one in FA, Thats a possibility if there is someone out there worth signing but a trade for a high salary player where we take over all of his salary commitments is also possible. It would require giving up someone good but I believe we do have good players in the Minors who don’t really fit into our fielding holes.

                    I deally if they find a RH Power Bat to complement Wright (assuming he is still here) then a lot of our problems go away. We could win even with Murphy at 2B and Duda in LF platooning with Kirk or Valde for the short term.
                    Nimmo might be here in another two years to take over the CFspot but we have Den Dekker and Kirk to fill there in the meantime.

                    Geta RH bat that scares someone and the results will be seen as much in Duda and Davis as it will be seen in the player himself!

                    The only two untouchables in the Minors right now are Harvey and Wheeler and the rest should be considered as trade in multiples to get that RH powerbat!
                    That will get us wins in all those 2-1 and 3-1 games we have been seeing of late and turn those around and we are back in the playoff picture!
                  • TRS86 September 11, 2012 at 11:44 am

                    Metsie I did not ask you for your opinion on Bay that I am aware of. That question was for Metsr whom I have not seen post that often so I am unaware of his opinion of Bay. It is relative to the discussion on problems much worse than Murphy.
                  • Metsie September 11, 2012 at 11:50 am

                    Yep but the questin still remains..what is YOUR opinion of Bay!

                    If you wish to have a discussion about Bay why not do what the rest of us do?

                    AVOID taking some article not related to bay off topic, Writing a nice little fan post about your thoughts on bay and let us discuss the merits of what you wrote!

                    Thats what the rest of us do we don’t hijack threads to talk about the topics we would RATHER talk about instead of the article topic. We write fan posts that get ruined by people like you who conduct thier own topical conversations and interviews ignoring the work the person who wrote the piece!
                  • TRS86 September 11, 2012 at 11:55 am

                    Sorry Metsie, I am just not participating in these type discussions anymore so this will be the last comment to you out of respect to Joe.
                    I ask Metsr a question and it is his choice as to whether or not he answers it.
                • Des September 10, 2012 at 11:17 pm

                  Metsr1 — I never, never, never said I like Murphy because he’s homegrown. Why do you bring up such imaginary crap? As for your dislike of Duda because he doesn’t smile and his low keyed demeanor, that’s crap for Hollywood, not a ballfield. I’m also not a big Duda fan, but I think my reasons have more to do with his skills and slowness.
            • Des September 10, 2012 at 6:42 pm

              Metsr1 — “I am a 40 year plus true Met fan who can’t stand Murphy. Yes, you are correct about my hatred.”

              No, you are not a true Mets fan if you have an irrational hatred of one player on the team who their manager thinks belongs in the lineup. I would suggest you get professional help.

              Metsr1 — “He is beloved by folks like you for silly reasons like…”he’s home grown”, or “he hustles”.

              No, he is respected by me for what he does on the baseball field. He produces. Here is a portion of what I wrote on this thread at 9:49am today:
              Since the All Star break, his ranking within position players with 30 or more games:
              AVG 3
              SLG 6
              H 2
              2B 1
              3B 2
              What is not to like about his baseball production? What has this got to do with being home grown or hustling? Answer: Nothing.

              Metsr1 — A point about your attitude. You cite two home runs in Chicago by Murphy as a convoluted way of disparaging Murphy. I find it interesting that you use an achievement by Murphy as a negative. Hmm. You don’t mention that Murphy went 3 for 5 that day, adding a double to his two homers. What did the rest of the Mets lineup do that day? Well Hairston and Davis also homered but Murphy had more. Why try to pick on the guy who delivered the goods? Yes, you certainly do have the hatred you cite in assessing yourself. Again, if you want, help is available.
• Mr North Jersey September 10, 2012 at 10:32 am

  Murphy is a one dimensional player but that one dimension he does very well for the most part and that is hit. It be nice to have a more well rounded second baseman and Coutinho is right to say that it is far from a slam dunk that Murphy will be back. My thoughts are while they look for that more well rounded 2B they can do a lot worse than a Daniel Murphy so for now I am still with #28.
• Metsie September 10, 2012 at 10:57 am

  I can’t honestly say Murphy is not an everyday player because he hasn’t completed a season….
  The reasons he hasn’t completed one is he came off two knee operations and has yet to build up the stamina needed to complete a full season.

  He will in time and we should givge him the benefit of the doubt both in power and stamina we gave so willingly to Santana who also missed a lot of time due to injury!

  Murphy has earned another shot at being the fulltime 2B. and since “THE PLAN” doesn’t seem to include a winning 2013 I see no reason not to give it to him!
• Lare September 10, 2012 at 5:02 pm

  The real problem is lack of production from corner outfielders. Middle infielders need to get on base and play good defense, anything extra is a bonus.
  • Bayonne Mets Fan September 10, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    These are the type of generalized comments that confuse me.

    “Middle infielders need to get on base and play good defense, anything extra is a bonus”
    It’s a little more involved than that, brother.

    I think Edgardo Alfonso did a little more than just “get on base and play good defense”
    I think Jose Reyes did a little more than just “get on base and play good defense”
    I think Wally Backman had more to his game than just “getting on base and playing good defense”

    These are middle infielders that did everything from stealing bases, driving in 100RBIs, hit for power and in Backman’s case being an excellent bat handler (which makes for a good 2nd place hitter – being a good bat handler) Wally wore his heart on on his sleeve and slid hard, played hard and you hear it all the time even though saberheads would never listen – it’s the little things than can win you the biggest of games.

    In 2007 The Mets had Jose Reyes at SS and at 2B you had Ruben Gotay, Valentin, Castillo, Anderson Hernandez. My point is if you start off stereotyping what your position player should be according to “stats” then you’re already at a disadvantage. Outside of 1B or an OF position where you do want power you build a team in order to make it a winning unit, not by what statistics you think they should put up.
• Christopher Masiello September 10, 2012 at 7:25 pm

  Too many below average guys on this team. I want Murph, Thole, Bay, and Torres all gone. Duda is a project but at least he as some power.
  • Des September 10, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Christopher — You want the guys who can motor gone? Why? Your list would leave Duda, a guy who has trouble running, along with some other Mets who are similarly affected. Any scout worth his salt would never do what you’re suggesting.
    • Des September 10, 2012 at 8:10 pm

      By the way, last night Keith said that Bay was the best baserunner on the team. This season Bay has had other problems, but motoring and smart playing are not his among them.
• Fonzie13 September 10, 2012 at 8:58 pm

  I’m still with 28 as long as he is a spot starter and LH bat off the bench. He’s not an everyday 2nd baseman although I give him credit for working his ass off to improve to the point where you can get away with playing him there sparingly. His lack of range will catch up to you over a 162 game schedule. You can’t have your 2nd baseman playing 5-10 feet onto the OF grass to make up for his lack of range.
  • Trs86 September 10, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    My hope is Wright is resigned and the Mets are able to transition Flores to either 2B or RF. Murphy right now though has more value to the Mets than trade value I am afraid.
    • Fonzie13 September 11, 2012 at 5:35 pm

      I don’t think Flores will be able to handle 2B. He’s too big and not mobile enough. He’s a corner infielder and with Ike and Wright he’s gonna have to try the OF. Duda is another guy who’s destined to be in the AL. He’s atrocius in the OF and wasn’t even adequate at 1B his natural position. I don’t see him in our future.
• jerseymet September 10, 2012 at 9:14 pm

  Murph played a better second than expected. He can hit. Keep him. We’ve got bigger problems than second base.