30
2012
Collins and Alderson To Address Coaching Staff, Warthen Likely To Return
An article by 
SOLID… Solid as a rock…
Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson will discuss the state and future of the coaching staff this Monday or Tuesday according to Mike Puma of the NY Post.
A Mets official also told him that he would be surprised if Dan Warthen gets fired.
This kind of backs up earlier reports from two weeks ago that intimated the same thing regarding pitching coach Dan Warthen who was also given a huge vote of support by Sandy Alderson.
They love Warthen and I believe they feel the same way about hitting coach Dave Hudgens.
I’m thinking Wally Backman will be offered a key role on the 2013 coaching staff because I simply don’t see him coming back to coach at Triple-A – especially in Las Vegas.
Original Post 9/15
According to Mike Puma of the New York Post, Sandy Alderson thinks the coaching staff has done a solid job this season.
“I think the coaching staff has done a solid job,” Alderson said, adding that he and manager Terry Collins will discuss the coaches within the next 7-10 days.
“Obviously we haven’t gotten the production out of the bullpen we would have liked, but I am not sure that is related to any coach. But Dan has done a nice job over the last couple of years and I do believe he has developed a rapport with many of the pitchers.”
That could bode well for pitching coach Dan Warthen, Puma adds, who is the last holdover on the staff from former manager Jerry Manuel’s regime and has been a question mark to return in recent seasons.
Alderson told the Post that he will discuss the coaches with Terry Collins in the next week to 10 days.
Accountability…
Does that word mean anything around here?
I can’t believe Warthen or Hudgens don’y have their heads on the chopping block…
Is there any accountability to be found in Flushing these days?
Here we are, trapped in the worst stretch of baseball that hasn’t been seen since the early 1900′s, and all we hear about is praise, great chemistry, feel good moments, etc…
Do any of them realize how awful they’re playing?
Is anybody in this organization angry about how this season has gone?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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Warthen should have gotten the ax with the others back in the day. I’m not sure who he has pictures of but how he maintains his job is befuddling.
As for Terry, I think he is a good motivator and a sub-par in game manager. I hope they let him play out his contract and then re-distribute his talents within the system. If memory serves, I believe he mentioned he didn’t want to manage forever when he first got the job. I’m still not sure that Wally should be the guy to follow, but I think Terry has done a decent job, but is not a longer term guy.
And the comedy continues on a slow day.
- Players not hustling
- Players not running to 1B on dropped third strikes
- The defense gets worse and worse and worse
- Players looking over the heads rounding 3B instead of looking directly at the on-deck hitter who should be telling them what to do
- rookie talent regressing all because all of sudden there’s a “new philosophy”
The philosophy of sacrificing your own hitter’s natural talent in order to put the emphasis more on trying to get the starting pitching out of the game? That is just NUTS and it’s NO WAY to run a professional (or any level) baseball organization
You are literally telling your talented middle of the order hitters who’s job it is is to drive in runs to change their approach, to go away from their natural abilities and instead – focus on trying to get the starting pitcher out of the game – REGARDLESS if it’s Cliff Lee or Jamie Moyer.
It’s insane and to have this kind of leadership at the professional level is more insane
And that’s why it’s TERRY COLLINS’ fault. If they don’t play sound, fundamental baseball, don’t blame the pitching coach, hitting coach or the bullpen catcher. Blame the boss. And their conditioning has been bad for years. I blame Reyes’ continuing issues on conditioning. Others have had problems, too.
Dan has done a good job the last few years???
Someone PLEASE shoot me between the eyes if this means Warthen will be back. Just when you think they can’t be more clueless….
That picture of Warthen makes me want to vomit!
Where is the account ta ility for Hudgins the hitting coach?
What about the lack of stamina and focus in September?
I don’t advocate any coach losing his job and not earning a living but once again, as JoeD stated, where is the accountability on this staff?
This year’s club has rivaled 1962 for ineptitude at the plate. The hitting coach should be held a accountable and released. If they really like him, then reassign him to another level. Under no circumstances should he be retained.
Hudgens has no accountability in the Mets hitting woes at home. He should be fired.
If this team was a horse it would be put down.So would the GM.
Alderson should be fired for even passing that statement…This ownership and FO are beyond the point of words…Overmatched and intellectually challenged…
I love the idea of the Mets.
I don’t like the product.
Take Warthen and Hudgens back to Wal-Mart and exchange them for some other Chinese-made junk. Not so sure we should even keep TC at this point.
Wow 2013 is going to be awful!
” But Dan has done a nice job over the last couple of years…”
and Custer did a nice job at his Last Stand !
I agree with you 100% Joe…there is NO accountability on this team. The manager makes excuses for his players (after preaching about NO excuses repeatedly earlier in his tenure), the GM praises the coaching staff for a “solid job” (all the while looking like the Bad News Bears at home), and yet, we are expected to believe that the “culture” of losing in Flushing is going to change. How dumb do these people think we are? Oh, some are drinking the Alderson / Collins brand Kool Aid (Michael Baron over at MetsBlog anyone?), but a majority of Mets fans aren’t a** kissers like Baron and are intelligent enough to realize that the “culture” hasn’t changed, and isn’t likely to change for some time.
But the lack of accountability starts at the top (i.e., the Wilpons). They invest in ponzi schemes and lose the team’s money but are not held accountable so why should we expect Uncle Bud’s golden boy of a GM to break with Met tradition and hold anyone beneath him (i.e., Collins, Warthen, Hudgens) accountable for their incompetence? Alderson is here for one reason, and one reason only: slash payroll and turn the Mets into the New York Pirates/A’s/Twins (take your pick). That would be ok if they could compete as well as the Twins did for a long stretch on a small payroll or as the A’s have this year, but they’ve not shown any ability to find talent and utilize it the way the A’s have. Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?
That’s the problem with this whole regime…Double talk…And your right ’86, Collins was the guy with the “no excuses” mantra, now he keeps to the corporate line…the culture of losing will not change with a few guys having success at the MLB level from AAA, it will only change when the Ownership and GM decide it will…through player procurement in the FA market and trades that bring in new talent and a new manager and staff brings a breath of fresh air and a new optimism.
It’s looking more and more to me that Sandy thinks they are doing a good job only because they are maintaining the conditions he needs to keep his plan working without too much pressure to go do what he doesn’t want to do, go spend money!
If I had to dicern what Sandy’s plan is from thelast two years it appears to me to be Win enough to keep fooling fans into coming but not enough to force him to abandon his never spend build with kids approach.
If they win too much the pressure on him to spend on players to get him over the top will be immense. He does not want to do that!
Win just enough and fans will have enough hope that something good is coming soon despite the fact that the GM will not bring it here unless it comes from AAA or some lopsided trade ala the Piazza deal.
He will not lift a finger to improve this team until such time as there are no big salaries left or the AAA promotions play so well that he has no choice but to go for it.
He is merely going to wait as long as he can and in the end the Accountability will come to roost!
He will get fired and the next guy will have to pick up the pieces of the franchise Sandy Shattered!
His plan doesn’t play in a big market. It’s a small market mentality.
Young players can only take you so far as you’ve stated. Josh Byrnes would have been the correct hire 2 winters ago, but the Wilpon’s knew what Bud wanted, saw the projected financials and realized that it was Alderson who would strip things down like the good soldier, take the abuse for it and eventually move on.
Byrnes plan would have probably been a little more aggressive, which is exactly what Bud and Fred didn’t want and couldn’t have…
In the end, Sandy will keep his mouth shut about the financials, the Wilpons will reward either DePo or Ricchardi with the GM job, and they will all act like the 5 or 6 years of losing baseball never occured…
Terry will stay through his contract. Then he will return to his previous job of player delelopment. Wally and 2014 are just over the horizon. Keep the faith. Enjoy the early start of spring training 2014.
Fire them all. I have no confidence in any of the leadership at the major league level. This team is so un-fundemental it is a shame to continue to shop them as a “major league franchise”. Wilpons are the most at fault because they are not sound as an ownership base, and it trickles right down to the field.
Alderson,,Warthen,Collins and the Wilpons should apologize to Mets fans and leave the scene after this most dismal of all seasons, instead of giving us this BS. There are 7 teams fighting for wild card berths and it is obvious that if Mets leadership made some changes in the second half instead of giving up, we would have something to root for this month instead of watching a pathetic team that is so impotent they can’t even qualify as a spoiler team.
Coaches outside of the manger and the pitching coach in my opinion are just sacrificial lambs for the most part when they are fired. To say it’s Hudgens fault for example that Duda and Ike failed to hit while it has some truth as this is his job to help them hit it is but a small truth in my opinion as Hudgens can only do so much he can not go out there and hit for the players.
When Tejada was hitting well does anyone really believe it was solely due to Hudgens? Cmon. Yes he may have helped some what but as when Tejada hit well and has slumped of late and Wright had a great 1st hald and has slumped the 2nd hald and as Ike has struggled the 1st half and has hit well of late and as Murphy was hitting early and has slumped of late the same hitting coach was there during the good ad the bad. Responsibility also has to go to the players but you can’t fire all the players but most know firing a hitting coach is much easier and if done right can send a message that the players are eventually next.
I have never been to concerned over the firing of a coach other than a pitching coach who I believe really can have influence with the staff so if firing in this case Hudgens is done to send a message so be it but speaking for myself I mostly look at that as not much more than what it is to me. A warning shot for players that they need to step it up.
Well, at this point it is obvious. The Mets finances come first. The product on the field is a far distant second. They won’t cut anyone still under contract. They don’t want to pay money for a contract that terminated early and then pay someone else to do the same job. The Mets have no intentions of fielding a competent team until ownership gets out of the red and into the black. Winning is not on the front office’s mind. They are in panic mode to stem the financial bleeding. And because they are in a panic, they can’t tell their heads from their rears anymore. It must be nice to royally suck at your job and not have to worry about getting canned. Hey Fred, hire me! I can be incompetent too! I was born to work for you!
I guess it’s not surprising that a GM who espouses mediocrity would give a thumbs up to a mediocre coaching staff and field manager. More reasons why I will not be spending my money at Citi Field next season. Thanks, Sandy, you saved me a bundle!!!
Of course Warthen will probably be back. These buffoons aren’t as serious to winning as what they spew. Let’s bring back a mediocre pitching coach in order to produce a mediocre pitching staff, either it be the rotation or pen. It’s always one or another.
I’m thoroughly convinced Warthen has incriminating photos on the Wilpons. He must know where the bodies are buried or something.
I’m embarrassed to be a Mets fan !
Ditto
Judging by the words Sandy expressed on that interview regarding PPPA and what we read about Hudgens being in agreement with his general manager’s approach to working the pitch count – and that it required Terry Collins to over-rule his hitting coach working with Ike Davis who insisted Ike still work the count more (though Terry believed this was one of many factors causing him to swing more wildly) – that Dave Hudgens and the general manager are on the same wave length and this will weigh in heavily on the general manager’s decision, despite Ike Davis.
If Sandy didn’t bring up the PPPA in that interview (which someone later on noted Gary Cohen said that the drop was a minute one less pitch for every 20 at bats) perhaps Hudgens job would be less secure. But all any of us can do – no matter which side of the fence we are on – is guess. We have no real idea what is being considered or leaned to thus far.
there are all kinds of rumors, unattributed reports, speculation, etc. this time of the year. You really have to wait until the end of the off season to judge, or with the coaches, until they make it official. Taking most of the stuff being floated around now as gospel will just drive you nuts!
Joey D. — In 2012, the NL PPPA leader (among qualifiers) is Dodgers catcher AJ Ellis. He averages 4.39 PPPA. At the other end of the qualifiers is Ian Desmond of the Nationals. He is Number 62 and has a 3.36 PPPA. So for all the National League qualifiers, just about one pitch per plate appearance separates the earliest swinger from the latest swinger.
There does appear to be a marginal correlation between higher PPPA numbers and total bases. Early swingers statistically have fewer total bases, though there are exceptions. (I haven’t done a formal correlation but eyeballing the numbers leads me to this conclusion.)
A few statistics — Ike has a 4.00, Wright a 3.83, and Murphy is 3.69.
Accountability starts at the top. Those reading here long enough know where I put that responsibility.
I just can’t get that excited about the coaches right now given the many holes the team itself has. Maybe if the talent level as a whole under performed this season I might be annoyed. But outside of the starting pitching (minus the still questioning starts they gave to Batista), the BP, the defense, the offense basically under performed. Or more to the point…performed to the level of talent.
I’m no fan of Warthen’s and I don’t know enough about Hudgens right now. Terry, IMO, is not the worst manager as some have suggested. More like the right type for right now – inexpensive, interim for the short term and in line with the company plan, whatever the hell that is.
I’ll start more attention to the coaching staff when they finally field a post season type competitive team.
*start paying more attention.
Fire them all!
For a person to make the statement that they will only pay more attention to the coaching staff when the Mets finally field a post season type competitive team.
Well that tells me everything I need to know about that person’s knowledge about the game of baseball.
They will ONLY pay attention to the coaches when the team is finally competitive and post season ready.
WOW!
LMAO.
“Here we are, trapped in the worst stretch of baseball that hasn’t been seen since the early 1900′s, and all we hear about is praise, great chemistry, feel good moments, etc…”
Taken literally, I think there is a mistake in this statement. I’ve seen some bad baseball by all New York teams (Dodgers, Yankees, Giants, Mets) over the years. This group we have now is disappointing but many of us have seen worse. We want our team to be better than this though.
When Sandy praises, it reveals his own earlier, miserable expectations for 2012. Also he may be shaping expectations for 2013 for the team. Ugh!!!
Does it really matter if they stay or go?
This management encourages mediocrity.
Off Topic: Talk about a scary situation. Orioles charter plane makes an emergency landing after a small fire. One of the Orioles baseball people said they were told that they were “nearly free falling for a few minutes”. Free falling for a few minutes is not something you ever want to hear on a plane I don’t care how you preface it.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/20418638/orioles-plane-catches-small-fire-has-emergency-landing
North,
I just hope that the one who said they were free falling was perhaps using that terminology to describe what it felt like to him more than what was actually occurring. Hope the players have been able to get in touch with their loved ones to calm them down as well.
Either way, a frightening experience even if the pilots might have had everything in control. Am sure we will get more clarity as to what happened tomorrow.
Meantime, thanks for bringing it to our attention – if nothing more than to remind us what we argue about here has nothing to do with life or death.
For the sake of change, Geren goes and Backman joins staff as either 3rd base coach or bench coach.
No, I’d make Tuefel the bench coach.
I really don’t get the love for Backman over Tuefel. Do goofy antics really make someone a good manager?
I would make Teufel bench coach also, as he has been here this year. You never know though.
[...] Joe D of MetsMerizedOnline.com wonders if the word “accountability” means anything to the Mets organization: [...]