To whom are you asking your strawman question? You seem to think you have all the answers yet you ask questions. Hmmm. I was talking about the Greenberg/Reyes tactics. I think they misplayed their hand. So he’s in Miami for a while. I think they’ll unload him.

No, I’m just shooting holes in your claims. What happened from July 1st to July 31st on the field?

What assets did they have to acquire the at least 4 players to make them legit contenders? Because just bringing in 1 or 2 would have been an insult to us.

“The point is; for two straight years the team played well in the first half and the GM did nothing to help make a 2nd half push”

and both years they didn’t do much to prove him wrong. Of course, there were quite different circumstances ebtween the 2 years as well.

” it sucks to put everything into a season and know that your FO doesn’t believe enough in you to help”

Again, looking at this from the other end: You know the team over achieved for the first 3 months, then in the month leading up to the deadline, the team craps out. The bullpen is lousy, you have 2 injured starting pitchers, the 3 guys who are supposed to provide your power can’t hit their weight and you don’t have any major league starters in the OF or at C. Throw in the fact that buyers rarely get value at deadline deals, and really what would you have done?

Sell off the few prospects you have and hope all (at least) 4 starting players you bring in get you to the playoffs? Then what happens next year and the year after?

Trade off some pieces to make a token gesture? I don’t know about you, but I’d rather not be treated like an idiot.

We can argue about if Sandy really tried to add or not….we don’t know, but still that’s not the point…

The point is; for two straight years the team played well in the first half and the GM did nothing to help make a 2nd half push…as a player, it sucks to put everything into a season and know that your FO doesn’t believe enough in you to help…so when it comes time to negotiate a contract…are you really going to sign with a team that (at least the perception is) isn’t going to take a shot at the PS when they get it?

A couple of those scenarios and maybe 1 or 2 more.

better yet, maybe Alderson should have brought in a team mom. To hug them and tell them they are special. that might have gotten them past their hurt feelings.

If they had not lost who do you think he would have gotten?

Lets hear it!

Who was in the cards but given up on because the team was not worthy of his attention?

It’s ludicrous on one hand to blame the players for not being good enough and using that as an excuse for the GM to not go after someone who WAS good enough or could replace those failures!

If not for his failed attempt at bringing in Bullpen they had another 10 games of losing before they were actually out of it!
It was what he DID bring in that hurt that team and put it into the precarious position it was in!

Hard to be inspired when you tell everyone Jason bay is going to be your RH power bat and that there was not even a MINOR deal to be made to replace those scrubs in the BP!

then why didn’t they?

“you think some of them care what is going to happen years from now when they feel a little help could have gone a long way in helping them compete now?

I think they should have pride as professionals and as grown men.

“They are competitors it’s in their blood.”

Then what is all this speak of “kicked in the teeth” and crying for help from other teams? How competitive can one be when they sink away from the challenge?

Where’s all your talk of clutch now? where’s all this “the players are responsible for the play on the field”?

” Sandy basically told them to take a hike and now karma is payback.”

HA! Who do you think will be gone first? The GM sent by the league to rebuild the team to respectability or the journey men fill ins lacking talent and, according to you, heart?

You want to say Alderson should ahve brought in more talent? That is another discussion, but don’t use it as an excuse for what some claim is heartless play.

Oh, you were in the front office meetings? Again I ask, if you were in Alderson’s spot at the end of July, would you think what the team did in that stretch warranted the investment of money and/or prospects to bring in at least 4 more players (reliever, starter, catcher, outfielder)?

“but you can’t argue the fact that having the GM trade away players told the team that he didn’t believe in them and it crushed them”

well, they did nothing to prove him wrong. this is the point people are avoiding. The whole this was in their hands and they bombed. Now, they are crying about hurt feelings.

“This year, everyone said the team was going to suck”

Well, smart people knew they’d have a rough season, but suck was a strong word.

“the team played way above their heads and got in a great position”

So, you admit they weren’t very talented. Most of us saw this coming. They played above their heads which means it wasn’t reasonable to expect them to maintain it. Now, the question is, how high above their heads were they playing?

Because the higher you say, that means the greater the expected fall. that in turn means more help would have had to be brought in.

“the bullpen sucked and Wright couldn’t bat .400 the rest of the season”

And Ike and Duda weren’t providing any power. and Thole is not a major league catcher. and Gee was hurt and Santana was running out of steam, and the outfield was full of 4th and 5th OFs…

“So despite knowing they had needs…Sandy did nothing…so we can argue if adding a reliever or OF’er was good for the “Alderson Plan””

No, adding a reliever or an OF would have been bad for the Mets and an insult to the players and fans. A token gesture? The illusion of competitiveness? Is that what you want?

Who did you want brought in? What were you willing to part with? Because the Mets were miles from being real competitors.

“but once again the players it killed the players”

No, the players killed the players. If they didn’t crap out during July, just as the playoff race really began, maybe you can imagine an argument. But they were the ones who lost all of those games in July.

They swooned in July. Maybe if they stayed competitive he would have done nothing – we will never know.

What we do know is a team that EVERYBODY thought was overachieving was 43-37 on July 1, 3.5 out of first place and in a 3 way tie for the wildcard was 3 games UNDER .500 on July 30th and 8.5 games out of the playoffs.

All they did was prove the critics right – they were overachieving. You don’t go out and spend young players you may need if your team shows you they don’t have the talent to compete.

One player would have done nothing. You have no idea how that 1 player would have performed. You’ll never know, but assuming that makinga big trade would have changed things can easily be proven false just by looking at the LA Dodgers who proved that trades don’t necessarily turn you into a winner overnight.

If they had made a big trade, and been exactly where they are today – then the debate would have been Sandy made the wrong trade.

If you showed me on July 30th the Mets looked like a legitimate playoff contender then yes I’d be ticked they didn’t add anything, even another bullpen arm.

But I’m sorry they proved the reverse, and proved to be the Indians and Pirates of 2011. Great 1st half but over the course of time your true abilities shine through

As far as David is concerned, he has to decide what is best for him. He has the potential to qualify for HOF membership if his career continues to progress. His best opportunity appears to be elsewhere rather than with the Mets. He has plenty of bargaining power. He needs to do what is right for him and that may be with a different team for the balance of his career. The Mets need to compete with a strong offer to keep him here, otherwise David needs to move on to do what is best for him.

RA’s statement makes it clear that the FO needs to do something quickly regarding these players. If they treat David the same as they treated Jose, then RA is clearly gone. The two most productive and professional players we have will be gone. This team will then be cellar dwellers for a very long time. SA needs to come to grips with this very rapidly. But we all know that he will procrastinate as long as possible, do nothing, and then babble away with his executive lingo that says nothing but fluff. I think both of these players are as good as gone and we, as fans, are doomed because of the Wilpon stubborness and, let’s face it, GREED!

Milwalkee was talked about being a player…

where do u think Reyes would want to live for the next 5 years…Wisconsin or Miami?

face it…had Reyes called the Mets bluff and told them he would accept a 85 mil offer…they STILL would pass it down…and u would still be ok with that…cuz at the end of the day…its really not about the money….Reyes on the mets makes them a better team…what do u care how much he is getting paid? its not like they are lowering the price of parking now that he is gone…

They are competitors it’s in their blood. Sandy basically told them to take a hike and now karma is payback.