28
2012
Are The Players Turning The Tables On The Mets Front Office?
An article by 
Fred Wilpon and Sandy Alderson gazing into the future and watching their plan unfold?
On Wednesday I posted this comment R.A. Dickey made regarding his thoughts on signing an extension with the Mets after this season:
“If I don’t see them pursuing David hard,” Dickey said, “I think it would be a message to everybody that they’re content to spend the next five or six years rebuilding this organization. Rather than trying to be competitive, and trying to rebuild it at the same time.”
Dickey also said that he considers himself and David Wright as a package deal. Basically he torpedoed the prevailing theory that many Mets fan had about Wright or Dickey not caring about how much they get paid. Of course they care, why wouldn’t they?
Anyway, there was a comment left by Metsie that really took the debate to another level and I thought it was worth pursuing:
“I think this is just more proof about what Burkhardt said about the kick in the teeth. Sandy really hurt himself and lost the faith of his players this offseason with his lack of effort. And now instead of him judging players on if they are worth keeping and paying, the system is now reversed and it’s the players who will be judging Sandy and his approach before they sign a contract.”
That’s an interesting concept to consider, and he’s not at all far off from the truth.
Your words and actions are what create your reputation. So far, the last two years have done more harm than good as far as the front office’s reputation stands with the fans and now apparently the players are taking notes as well. Just as we the fans have heard all the broken promises and unsubstantiated claims, so too have the players. Now it’s not just me, Mike Francesa, and a minority of fans who openly question what the plan is. It seems that now even the team’s key players are wondering what the plan is themselves – they don’t see any plan either. As I’ve said before, I’m betting that at least one or both of Wright and Dickey will be gone before next season. I’m more confident about that than I am on placing a bet on NFL football this weekend. And based on what Dickey said, if Wright goes than you can bet Dickey goes too. As he said, they are a package deal.
Look, at this point anything can happen, but seriously the Mets brand name, along with its reputation, has taken a huge hit over the years. If you think that has changed, think again. The Mets have not become any more attractive to play for under Sandy Alderson than they were in 2010 under Omar Minaya. It’s gotten worse.
If you think the Mets had to overpay for marquee free agents before, it’s going to take a lot more dough to attract them now than ever before.
Players are competitive creatures by nature. They have an even greater commitment to winning as we the fans do. And now they are openly questioning and scratching their heads about what exactly is going on and what direction this team is going in. Like the rest of us, they are finding it difficult to connect the dots because it seems like we’re just flying by the seats of our pants with no direction in sight.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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You can also add the Maddoff stuff and the bargain bin free agent shopping to your post as well. Players have to start wondering if monetarily this team is going to be able to compete with the big boys again as well.
I don’t call it bargain bin, I call it dumpster diving.
I would not blame Dickey or Wright for leaving, I love them but players can leave, fans can’t.
M. Donald Alderson and the Wilpons needs to get their head straight and make the Mets a contending team. Tired of the same old garbage the last few years.
Wright and Dickey would be fools to stay in New York, unless it’s the Yankees. There’s no future here, just a dead end. They both deserve better and if the Mets want them they should pay them more than market value to keep them from leaving, and talk of a hometown discount would be foolish foe either side to consider. Show me the money, then show me the plan.
Kranepool, since you’re saying that, maybe that’s why reyes left? not only because there was no offered, but because they have no idea how to run a team…
Maybe so Alex. But the Mets knew enough not to bid against a demand for $100 Million by Peter Greenberg and his client when no due diligence was performed. Seems to me every team but the Samson-Loria team agreed with the Mets. $100 Million isn’t chump change, no doubt. Don’t you agree?
Uhhhh…Florida was on the phone with Reyes at 12:01 midnight after the market opened…and were aggressive from day 1….Reyes never gave the market a chance to even develop and he went to the city and team he wanted to play for…
Milwalkee was talked about being a player…
where do u think Reyes would want to live for the next 5 years…Wisconsin or Miami?
face it…had Reyes called the Mets bluff and told them he would accept a 85 mil offer…they STILL would pass it down…and u would still be ok with that…cuz at the end of the day…its really not about the money….Reyes on the mets makes them a better team…what do u care how much he is getting paid? its not like they are lowering the price of parking now that he is gone…
” … face it…had Reyes called the Mets bluff and told them he would accept a 85 mil offer…they STILL would pass it down…and u would still be ok with that…cuz at the end of the day…its really not about the money….Reyes on the mets makes them a better team…what do u care how much he is getting paid?”
To whom are you asking your strawman question? You seem to think you have all the answers yet you ask questions. Hmmm. I was talking about the Greenberg/Reyes tactics. I think they misplayed their hand. So he’s in Miami for a while. I think they’ll unload him.
I see the Mets making a competitive offer to Wright – not “CRAZY” money but a competitive one. If he doesn’t want to sign for the huge bucks that he may command elsewhere, then I see him remaining a Met. I can’t blame the Mets in all honesty. They don’t want to get saddled with another Bay or Johan contract nor do they want to give the years ala the Yankees and A-Rod.
Let’s not forget that Wright is under contract for another year. The Mets have the advantage of being able to test the “market” for him. This team has so many holes that I don’t think they are close to being serious contenders. Trading Wright can help to plug some of those holes.
I think they made the correct move with reyes, although I wish they had gotten something for him. I’d have to believe that their thoughts are very similar in regards to Wright. On the other hand – I think they absolutely have to sign R.A. It is all about pitching and R.A. will be a very productive pitcher for a few more years.
JJ, thanks for the comment. Was wondering what your definition of competitive offer was. Do you think he should be offered what the Nationals gave Ryan Zimmerman? Not sure but I think it was a $120 million deal.
People always bring up Dickey’s age, but being a knuckleballer, get could theoretically pitch for 7-10 more years.
As i said yesterday, I’ve been patiently inpatient with this FO…I hate how the tea is being run right now and the only reason why I haven’t completely lost it is because part of me feels that this is necessary.
The sad thing is when the past tow years the Mets have had a competitive first half, the FO has done nothing to improve the flaws in the team.
Sandy can say and do what ever he wants…to me it sounds good that he wants to resign Wright and RAD…I want to believe him…but he was saying all these things with Jose too….and Sandy made no effort to keep him.
The players know, probably better than us what’s going on…every player wants make money, win and play in a conferrable/convenient place. Why would anyone want to stay here when it’s obvious that the team commitment is to cutting spending first and winning second?
Just can I question the direction of the team and Sandy’s approach without being a hater?
I believe you can credit the manager for the two incredible first halves this team has had. But a highly motivated yet untalented team can only go so far. That’s why they needed and expected help.
They expected help? they shouldn’t have free fallen through July.
Tell me, if you were a team GM in a perilous financial spot, would you take that as a sign that bringing in 4 or 5 new players (even you admitted it would take more than 2) would be a wise investment? In either money or prospects?
Come on Donal…you are not that dumb…Sandy wasn’t going to add anybody no matter what happened.
In 2011, the team was playing well and got above .500…Sandy rewarded them from rebounding from a bad start by trading their closer and best power hitter…we can argue if that was the smart move not…sure getting money off the books or outside chance a the playoffs…it might be the right move, we’ll never know…but you can’t argue the fact that having the GM trade away players told the team that he didn’t believe in them and it crushed them
This year, everyone said the team was going to suck…the team played way above their heads and got in a great position…but everyone knew they needed help…the bullpen sucked and Wright couldn’t bat .400 the rest of the season. So despite knowing they had needs…Sandy did nothing…so we can argue if adding a reliever or OF’er was good for the “Alderson Plan”…but once again the players it killed the players…they don’t care about the long term…they know they played their asses off and the FO has no desire to help them win.
USMF: You can say that, but the truth is the team gave Alderson every reason in the world to believe they weren’t “a trade away.”
They swooned in July. Maybe if they stayed competitive he would have done nothing – we will never know.
What we do know is a team that EVERYBODY thought was overachieving was 43-37 on July 1, 3.5 out of first place and in a 3 way tie for the wildcard was 3 games UNDER .500 on July 30th and 8.5 games out of the playoffs.
All they did was prove the critics right – they were overachieving. You don’t go out and spend young players you may need if your team shows you they don’t have the talent to compete.
One player would have done nothing. You have no idea how that 1 player would have performed. You’ll never know, but assuming that makinga big trade would have changed things can easily be proven false just by looking at the LA Dodgers who proved that trades don’t necessarily turn you into a winner overnight.
If they had made a big trade, and been exactly where they are today – then the debate would have been Sandy made the wrong trade.
If you showed me on July 30th the Mets looked like a legitimate playoff contender then yes I’d be ticked they didn’t add anything, even another bullpen arm.
But I’m sorry they proved the reverse, and proved to be the Indians and Pirates of 2011. Great 1st half but over the course of time your true abilities shine through
“Come on Donal…you are not that dumb…Sandy wasn’t going to add anybody no matter what happened.”
Oh, you were in the front office meetings? Again I ask, if you were in Alderson’s spot at the end of July, would you think what the team did in that stretch warranted the investment of money and/or prospects to bring in at least 4 more players (reliever, starter, catcher, outfielder)?
“but you can’t argue the fact that having the GM trade away players told the team that he didn’t believe in them and it crushed them”
well, they did nothing to prove him wrong. this is the point people are avoiding. The whole this was in their hands and they bombed. Now, they are crying about hurt feelings.
“This year, everyone said the team was going to suck”
Well, smart people knew they’d have a rough season, but suck was a strong word.
“the team played way above their heads and got in a great position”
So, you admit they weren’t very talented. Most of us saw this coming. They played above their heads which means it wasn’t reasonable to expect them to maintain it. Now, the question is, how high above their heads were they playing?
Because the higher you say, that means the greater the expected fall. that in turn means more help would have had to be brought in.
“the bullpen sucked and Wright couldn’t bat .400 the rest of the season”
And Ike and Duda weren’t providing any power. and Thole is not a major league catcher. and Gee was hurt and Santana was running out of steam, and the outfield was full of 4th and 5th OFs…
“So despite knowing they had needs…Sandy did nothing…so we can argue if adding a reliever or OF’er was good for the “Alderson Plan””
No, adding a reliever or an OF would have been bad for the Mets and an insult to the players and fans. A token gesture? The illusion of competitiveness? Is that what you want?
Who did you want brought in? What were you willing to part with? Because the Mets were miles from being real competitors.
“but once again the players it killed the players”
No, the players killed the players. If they didn’t crap out during July, just as the playoff race really began, maybe you can imagine an argument. But they were the ones who lost all of those games in July.
You’re completely missing the point…this has nothing to do with if the moves were the right ones or not…fact is, we’ll never know what “would have happened”…the point is, the past two years the Mets found themselves above .500 at the Allstar Break and Sandy did not do anything to improve the team…
We can argue about if Sandy really tried to add or not….we don’t know, but still that’s not the point…
The point is; for two straight years the team played well in the first half and the GM did nothing to help make a 2nd half push…as a player, it sucks to put everything into a season and know that your FO doesn’t believe enough in you to help…so when it comes time to negotiate a contract…are you really going to sign with a team that (at least the perception is) isn’t going to take a shot at the PS when they get it?
“You’re completely missing the point…this has nothing to do with if the moves were the right ones or not…fact is, we’ll never know what “would have happened”…the point is, the past two years the Mets found themselves above .500 at the Allstar Break and Sandy did not do anything to improve the team…”
No, I’m just shooting holes in your claims. What happened from July 1st to July 31st on the field?
What assets did they have to acquire the at least 4 players to make them legit contenders? Because just bringing in 1 or 2 would have been an insult to us.
“The point is; for two straight years the team played well in the first half and the GM did nothing to help make a 2nd half push”
and both years they didn’t do much to prove him wrong. Of course, there were quite different circumstances ebtween the 2 years as well.
” it sucks to put everything into a season and know that your FO doesn’t believe enough in you to help”
Again, looking at this from the other end: You know the team over achieved for the first 3 months, then in the month leading up to the deadline, the team craps out. The bullpen is lousy, you have 2 injured starting pitchers, the 3 guys who are supposed to provide your power can’t hit their weight and you don’t have any major league starters in the OF or at C. Throw in the fact that buyers rarely get value at deadline deals, and really what would you have done?
Sell off the few prospects you have and hope all (at least) 4 starting players you bring in get you to the playoffs? Then what happens next year and the year after?
Trade off some pieces to make a token gesture? I don’t know about you, but I’d rather not be treated like an idiot.
OK Hypothetical for Donal And Jessup…
If they had not lost who do you think he would have gotten?
Lets hear it!
Who was in the cards but given up on because the team was not worthy of his attention?
It’s ludicrous on one hand to blame the players for not being good enough and using that as an excuse for the GM to not go after someone who WAS good enough or could replace those failures!
If not for his failed attempt at bringing in Bullpen they had another 10 games of losing before they were actually out of it!
It was what he DID bring in that hurt that team and put it into the precarious position it was in!
Hard to be inspired when you tell everyone Jason bay is going to be your RH power bat and that there was not even a MINOR deal to be made to replace those scrubs in the BP!
It is hard to say because your hypothetical requires some of the players who were failing to perform. Ike would have to hit above his weight in the first half, some of the relievers would have had to stop some runs, thole would have had to impersonate a major league catcher, Jason Bay would have had to find his form…
A couple of those scenarios and maybe 1 or 2 more.
better yet, maybe Alderson should have brought in a team mom. To hug them and tell them they are special. that might have gotten them past their hurt feelings.
I don’t think you can give all the credit to the manager for the first half. The talent is there with the team they were in need of a few more pieces. The last two years the Mets brought home a batting title, a no-hitter, a Cy Young Winner(most likely),and a 30 home-run hitter. Sandy had a chance to make a competitive team. I think the promise of a competitive 2014 team will pressure the Mets and the plan has failure and collapse written all over it.
“We made competive offer but they declined.” We even offered a box of chocolates. The deal was real sweet but they said no. We will make the best deal possible to fill our needs.
It would be nice to see Freddy “meaningful games in Sept” Wilpon step up and give us long suffering fans something to hang our hat on. After 4 years of this garbage and the last 2 for Sandy and co. to evaluate w/o any real pressure at all now comes crunch time. They have to make a statement this winter about where we’re going. With Dickey saying he and Wright are a package deal now and want to see what “the plan” is we will FINALLY know how bad a financial mess ownership is in. We pick up their options and either sign both long term or trade em and really start rebuilding and quite frankly I’m still torn as to which way I lean on this.
Dickey may be making it easier for Sandy to deal him off. What contender would not love to get Dickey at $5 million for 2013. Dickey is the best value in baseball. We paid Pelf more than that this year.
As to a bundle of players. Why not Dickey and Bay. For a bag of balls. Sandy could cut another 24 million in contracts..
Competitive offer for Wright= 7 yrs @ 125 million…including the 16 million option yr. He can feel as if he’s beaten Zimmerman’s offer, retire aMet while taking every last offensive Mets’ record with him, and be done by age 37. Fair for everyone. Dickey= 3 yrs @ 39 million w/ a 4th year team option for 11 million/ 1 million buyout. That garentees him 3 yrs and forth million which includes the ’13 season. I’d let every fan know what exactly was offered. If they don’t sign this offseason, I trade them both to the highest bidder. They both, in trades, could get the mets a future catcher and outfielders for the next ten yrs. They must do something and fast. I honestly think the Mets would be able to field a championship caliber team quicker by trading them for high end prospects, who’d be ready(hopefully) by 2014.
Joe, I sounded the alarm about this teams’ “brand” being damaged in January 2010 in an article I wrote on your site…The problem is the same, but the causes Post-Madoff financial/apocalypse are different…
Burkhardt’s observation is as accurate an explanation as contrived by anyone analyzing or reporting on the team, and Metsie’s take is spot on. As you wrote, players are ultra-competitive even more
than we fans..
This Ownership group, this Front Office, are being judged by not only we fans but by the players across MLB…
The only plan that was put in place, was the plan to save this ownership from being forced to sell the team. This is the only reason Alderson was brought aboard. The strategy he sold to ownership was containing costs through financial risk management, the same reason CRG was hired for the specifics on that plan, overslot draft spending, which is impossible under the new CBA, and rebuilding the team from the minor leagues up. The problem is the bleeding is slowed but not stopped. Red ink is red ink whether 70 mil, 50 mil or 23 mil.
The plan is their can be no plan until the team stops the red ink. Moving forward, I believe the Mets thought Wright would be their gate attraction, show the young guys how to win until the debt was clear. They had no intention of keeping Dickey but now the situation is muddled due to RA’s pronouncement and DW insistence on a show me the money and the plan to win , and the commitment now towards that goal. The owners and FOwere unprepared for that from either. For those very reasons, I expect both to be shipped out. And a full rebuilding to begin until Ownerships books are back in the black
It’s not impossible to go overslot Mike, it’s just a lot tougher. As long as you don”t go over your draft allotment you can go overslot without incurring any penalties. We had at least 3 overslot signings this past draft.
I hear ya Fonz, but by doing so, you short yourself in that drafts’ pool allocation money, and end up losing a few guys who provide that organizational depth that seems never to be ready when an injury occurs, because you allocated those extra bonus funds, to up a overslot draftees’ bonus, either way it hurts, because a player you drafted slips through the cracks, doesn’t sign, maybe he’s an HS kid and 3 years later instead of him being hypothetically, a six rounder you didn’t sign, he ends up a top 20 guy who gets drafted somewhere else and goes on to be good for someone else. Then there are the forfeiture of future picks if you go too far over those assigned allotments… The new CBA hurt this FO plan, that can’t be just glossed over…It’s really frustrating and saddening, and maddening to watch, all this go on. Worse yet, is the growing divide between Met fans themseves, really, winning is all that matters, but the futility we all endure now is of no consequence to ownership, or this FO at this time…this will cost us all some of our favorite players, already has, and just may again this winter or maybe this coming summer or next. Reyes, Wright, both should have been near or definite Met lifers, and RA, ‘s resurrection, and feel good story, performence should have been enough to keep him around until he retired, this is NYC, not KC, or Pittsburgh, where the revenue streams just aren’t available…
Mike, that begs the question, is it better to go overslot to ensure the better players sign, or stay strictly at slot to ensure you sign as many players as possible. Is it better to get your top 15-20 picks at the risk of losing your last 15-20 picks? Don’t forget, failure to go over slot can cause a draftee to go to school instead, as we saw with this draft. As Fonzie said, the Mets went over slot several times this draft. Doing so virtually guarantees some picks won’t be signed. Pick your poison.
You bring an excellent point xtreem, is it better to sign draftees’ overslot under the new CBA and lose half your picks because the allocation money was used up on the other 10 picks you didn’t sign because , you are right, some will go back to school, my answer is simply, we won’t know until some time in the future. But the draft has always been a hit or miss situation, scouting can only take you so far, then development, right? But like a lottery, the more times you play the more chances to hit. I’ll say this: you better be right on those 10 you sign huh?
Also keep in mind that while half their picks went unsigned, the back half, they did sign 33 international amatuer free agents between April and July. More than any other team.
Players dictating how the team is run? Why are we celebrating this? We’ve been down that road.
It’s more about players not liking the way things are being run and they have every right to express themselves however they choose. It’s their asses on the line. They want to WIN now – you think some of them care what is going to happen years from now when they feel a little help could have gone a long way in helping them compete now?
They are competitors it’s in their blood. Sandy basically told them to take a hike and now karma is payback.
“They want to WIN now”
then why didn’t they?
“you think some of them care what is going to happen years from now when they feel a little help could have gone a long way in helping them compete now?
I think they should have pride as professionals and as grown men.
“They are competitors it’s in their blood.”
Then what is all this speak of “kicked in the teeth” and crying for help from other teams? How competitive can one be when they sink away from the challenge?
Where’s all your talk of clutch now? where’s all this “the players are responsible for the play on the field”?
” Sandy basically told them to take a hike and now karma is payback.”
HA! Who do you think will be gone first? The GM sent by the league to rebuild the team to respectability or the journey men fill ins lacking talent and, according to you, heart?
You want to say Alderson should ahve brought in more talent? That is another discussion, but don’t use it as an excuse for what some claim is heartless play.
Exactly…the more I hear Sandy speak….the more I think he is becoming part of the problem and not the solution…
Yeah the mets went overslept on some, but balanced that out by picking players like Reynolds and Kaupe in the third and forth round, who they knew would sign for under slot in those selections. They were only able to get those few over slot picks, without going over budget because of this. This new CBA stinks, IMO, with reguard to the draft. I still don’t understand why they picked Stankiwietz in the second round if they were going to offer under slot. They should have picked him in the third round and possibly got him signed for slot money, letting him save face a little bit.
Dickey should be commended for taking this stand. He has demonstrated performance and is entitled to compensation reflecting that. By bringing David into the discussion, he is making it clear that he wants to play on a team that is competitive and has the opportunity to excell. That is a courageous statement to make and a direct challenge to the FO and ownership. RA has always been upright and truthful and has always aligned with the interests of the fans.
As far as David is concerned, he has to decide what is best for him. He has the potential to qualify for HOF membership if his career continues to progress. His best opportunity appears to be elsewhere rather than with the Mets. He has plenty of bargaining power. He needs to do what is right for him and that may be with a different team for the balance of his career. The Mets need to compete with a strong offer to keep him here, otherwise David needs to move on to do what is best for him.
RA’s statement makes it clear that the FO needs to do something quickly regarding these players. If they treat David the same as they treated Jose, then RA is clearly gone. The two most productive and professional players we have will be gone. This team will then be cellar dwellers for a very long time. SA needs to come to grips with this very rapidly. But we all know that he will procrastinate as long as possible, do nothing, and then babble away with his executive lingo that says nothing but fluff. I think both of these players are as good as gone and we, as fans, are doomed because of the Wilpon stubborness and, let’s face it, GREED!
Koufax and Drysdale did this many years ago