11
2012
What’s The Plan? The Mets Collapsed Right On Cue…
An article by 72MetsFan
The Big Wind – The Pope – Fatcessa – The Louse That Roared
Take your pick, they are all monikers for WFAN’s Mike Francesa, probably the most polarizing sportstalk host in New York and certainly the one who garners the highest ratings year in and year out.
You can see Francesa chugging his Diet Coke in between his Mets rants on the YES Network. Every now and then he’ll flash you his bright white set of choppers while waxing about his beloved Yankees.
There’s not a shred of objectivity to anything he blurts, but he’s achieved cult celebrity status nonetheless.
Francesa was in prime form on late Friday afternoon, wrapping up his show with a no-holds barred tirade against his favorite punching bag – the New York Mets – and more specifically – Sandy Alderson.
“What’s the deal with that guy? Does he serve any function here other than being Fred Wilpon’s errand boy?”
“For one thing, what’s the plan? What’s the plan? What the hell is it? Does anybody know what the Mets plan is? Is there a living soul in New York that knows what Sandy Alderson’s plan is?”
“I heard they were building from within.” <laughs> “That’s a big joke. If you’re building from within, then why didn’t you sign half of your draft picks? Is he kidding me? What’s the plan? Why did you pass on higher ceiling players? What’s the plan?”
“Is Zack Wheeler the plan? Some kid who you have no idea what you’ll get out of him, that’s your plan? Are you serious? It’s gotta be tough being a Mets fan. Or maybe not. They are so gullible they eat this kind of stuff up like Joey Chestnut at a hot dog eating contest.”
“Is Nimmo the plan? You’re not serious are you? Nimmo <a hearty laugh> Nimmo, that’s the plan. Some kid who cant hit his weight in rookie ball… What a plan.”
“Mets fans are different than Yankee fans, Mets fans are so gullible. They’ve been conditioned to be gullible. That so many of them still pay to go to the games is one of the seven wonders of the world. Mets fans are funny. Mets fans are real funny.”
“So, what’s the slogan for 2013? We’re one step closer to 2014?” <laughing>
“I can’t wait for 2014 because it’s going to be hell for all you Mets fans. They are selling you smoke and mirrors and next year it will all come crashing down.”
“This front office is like a bunch of snake oil salesmen and only Mets fans can be this gullible”
“You want to know the truth? You want to know the facts? This Mets team picked the perfect time to collapse because they were never spending anyway. Buyers. Yeah, they were buyers alright” < laughing >
“Yeah they were buyers alright. They waited this trade deadline out and the Mets gave them exactly what they desperately wanted – a well executed collapse in the days leading up to the deadline. You gotta hand it to them. It was poetry in motion. Buyers?” <more laughing>
“The plan is there is no plan. Bud Selig gave them the gift of the All Star game otherwise Citi Field would have as much life as the city morgue next season.”
“Mets fans have no reason for hope. They deserve a better front office. Hell, they deserve better owners too. They don’t have a plan. Their plan is to keep suckering you in with kids they have no idea will even make it. That’s not a plan people. They are stalling and hoping they can keep some of you from losing interest. What’s the plan? Mets fans should demand a plan. You can’t just say 2014 is the plan and then do nothing leading up to it. What are they gonna do, wave a magic wand in 2014? What’s the plan?”
About the Author: Drew Staley
On June 1, 2012 Johan Santana officially became my favorite current Met! I'm a Queens native who grew up in the shadows of Big Shea. I was a huge Ron Darling, Dave Magadan and John Olerud fan. Honored to be a part of such a great site for Mets fans. Ya Gotta Believe!
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He’s right…
I hate Fat-Head Fran, and I only agree with him about 4% of the time. But this is one of those times. I am glad you posted this rant by him, because I heartily agree with everything he said.
Just Friday I commented with on a piece with this:
This Alderson is a complete bust. He uses lack of spending money as an excuse to not improve the team. He is unimaginative. He is not creative. He has no original ideas. Does he really think that he has no trade-able commodities to improve the ball club? Are you kidding me?
Even if Alderson did something to improve the team down the road, at least he would be showing the fans that he is trying to move the team in a positive direction. He doesn’t understand what it means to think outside of the box. In short, he is a boob and a dullard.
Why do I call him a dullard when he is obviously an educated man? I’ll tell you why. Because all the intelligence in the world doesn’t mean squat if you can insult your fan-base with smarmy, snarky, conceited statements, designed to distract, and turn attention on one’s own short-comings, somewhere else.
I have never seen a general manager throw his team under the bus the way Alderson did a few weeks back. And it sure seemed odd for him to be criticizing the team he assembled for 2012, at a time when they were over-achieving and playing over their heads.
Did he honestly think he could shrug off the responsibility that comes with wearing the GM hat? And blame it on a bunch of young players who were doing the best they could, and making up for what they lacked in baseball talent with enthusiasm for the game. Unfortunately, enthusiasm alone Sandy, doesn’t win pennants.
And how does drafting a slew of high school talent in the draft, and then only signing a few of them help the team? If you didn’t intend to sign them, why did you bother to draft them in the first place?
We added Gavin Cecchini and not much else and he won’t be ready for at least four years. That’s how we are going to catch the Nationals? When will we catch them by 2027? Well, at least we saved half of our budgeted cash by not signing anybody, kewl.
Another brilliant move by this front office was to eliminate the Gulf Coast League affiliate where the youngest players in the system ply their trade against kids their own age. Now those young players in the Mets organization are forced to play against players older and more experienced than themselves in the Appalachian League.
If you look at what Kingsport has done this year, you can clearly see that those players are totally over-matched, and getting their butts waxed almost nightly. That can’t be very good for a kids development, or confidence. As a matter of fact, it’s the best way to screw a kid up, by rushing him from square one.
Not only has Alderson clearly shown his incompetence, but he has given the fans reasons to detest him. And due to his extreme arrogance, and that of his staff, he has become an embarrassment to Mets nation, and he absolutely needs to go. And he can take his three-headed monster, and the rest of those suits with him! Good riddance.
Excellent comment Pete. The one area missing is that Alderson was primarily brought in to save the franchise for the Wilpons. Everything else takes a back seat to the main goal. If you view things from that perspective things start to fall into place.
THIS!
Sorry folks I couldn’t resist!
I hate the guy, but he’s right.
you said it.he is a d-bag,but he is 100% right.this team is ran by a bunch of retards.
I can’t believe it but he’s right. Where is the semblance of a plan, other than to wait until ’14 when Johan and Bay’s contracts are off the books and Harvey and Wheeler are both part of the rotation? Will RA and Wright still be Mets in the future or will “the market” be too high, even though this is a New York team? I fear that Wright will become sick of the losing and end up in Atlanta or DC. Meanwhile, the team plays without passion or fire and for the second year in a row, has quit on Collins in August. So much for Collins’ winning Manager of the Year and deserving an extension, as we heard in the spring. If Alderson was the genius he was supposed to be, he would have found inexpensive FAs. Instead, he has done nothing positive except for the Wheeler-Beltran deal. He couldn’t even be bothered to trade Hairston at the break because of the insignificance of the offers. Wake up Sandy and do something.
I’ll be the fourth person to say that he’s right.
Been saying pretty much the same thing to any of my friends who would listen. Even when the Yankees brought up Jeter/Rivera/Posada they already went after and installed Paul O’Neill, Tino Martinez, Wade Boggs, David Cone, Jimmy Key and John Wetteland. They dint just bring up their core and voila! Who is Nimmo, Wheeler and Cecchini joining in 2014? Duda? Thole? Torres? Parnell?
THIS!
I always liked you Mookie.
Hahahaha! The truth is finally dawning on how terrible this front office is. This might be the worst GM we ever had. He’s old and thinks it’s still 1980. What a joke. Put him out to pasture or send him to the glue factory.
Alderson is not clueless. He is exactly as Francesa says … Sandy Alderson is not paid to care. He is just an image of stability in an organization that was/is on the brink of collapse.
He’s right about what Sandy Alderson’s role is.
He’s right about there is no plan.
He’s wrong about Mets’ “fans” as 90% of us fans know everything he’s saying is right. The problem is that none of us are within shouting distance of Sandy or the Wilpons.
Yeah Francesca, you are right. But I’m still going to tell you to go *** yourself, *** the Yankees, *** John Sterling and Susan Waldman. Hey ass wipe, you are full of yourself.
What am I doing as a die-hard Mets fan to tell Alderson I’m fed up? I cancelled my season tickets. I don’t watch them on t.v. anymore. I bash them on twitter. Adam Ruben, Rich Guatinho, the 7 Line and Metsmerized all know me as Diamond Dave 1. Yep, I tell it like it is. No sugar coating from me.
Hey, this has been the bullshit we’ve been living through since ’07. And I know it’ll continue for another few years. At the beginning of the 2012 season when the Mets jumped to a 4-0 start and the fans were jumping for joy, I muttered to myself, “Boy are they in for a rude awakening.” I figured we were no better than a .500 team and probably a 5 below .500 team. Well I’m balls on Francesca. So enjoy your Yankees now because they will not make the World Series. They’re hardly a scary team anymore.
One more thing mud whistle. Some day, I don’t know when, we will own the baseball world, we will own the back pages of the Daily News and Post, we will have an 86-type team.
But in the meantime, I won’t lose sleep over your tirades.
Diamond Dave.
I don’t like Mike but he is absolutely right. There is no plan. You couldn’t
bring in a couple guys to keep us competitive this year. what happens if nothing pans out in 2013, 2014, we’ve still got nothing. We are gullible because we love our team but ownership doesn’t love them the way we do. It seems even the player have given up on this year. I hate mike but he’s right.
Who is David Wright?
Remember that one guys? Keep things in perspective. The man knows jack about the Mets or the Mets farm. Yes, the “plan” is to build from within. It worked in Tampa and it will work here, Be patient.
Ok Matt, since you think the lord actually has a plan, then please, unlike the other cultists please be the one with a brain. Please do more than procalim him the lord. Please, do tell us then why didn’t he sign half the draft picks? Please, tell us why, if he’s building from within, there are almost no international signings, please do tell us why the team is suppoesed be young since we are buliding from within but it ias not old. The outfield is in its 30s with has beens, the catcher is over 30, the new star infielder is a nobody named Cedeno. the kids have all been beaten into submission Davis, Duda, Kirk, Thole all have deteriorated, Niese, the big long term signee isn’t any better, and the guy we lean on is Chris Young who is old, and the kid came up despite the lord declaring him not ready. So please Matt, WHAT IS THE PLAN??????? Don’t worry, only jessup and donal will hold their breadth waiting for some real knowledge. See you in a few years Matt, when maybe we have a GM with a real plan, not lies and arrogance.
Man….this place is harsh!! Look, I am with you on the picks, especially Stankiewicz. And I wanted Joey Gallo in the supplemental round and got to watch them pop a marginal catcher in Plawecki.
But I do believe the plan is to stockpile the farm. Omar helped with this as well as many of his young arms are coming along.
Now, the proof will be in the pudding. And when time comes to add pieces via free agency, I have no idea if Sandy er….Fred will do that.
The other thing that bothered me was Hairston. They should have traded him for a low level prospect. The rationale Sandy provided why they kept him was ludicrous.
All that said, I do believe there exists a plan to build the farm and to draft and develop middle of the diamond players. (Nimmo, Cecchini). Will they spend to add to it eventually? Who knows.
All-Star game! I was excited, I wanted to go; my kids want to go. Barring a miracle, I will not drop another dime on Citi Field until I here a GM or owner say, “Well, our season and our team will be a failure in our eyes and our fans’ eyes if we don’t make the playoffs and become World Series Champs.” It’s not that hard to do; you really only need to give a Sh^T!
hes right and you cant deny it. where can i listen to this ??
Try WFAN.com, Francesa podcasts.
I hate this fat blow hard bastard….but this is only the second time hes right about the Mets ….the first being they should get Piazza…..but everyone in the world was saying to get him….thank you Mr.Doubleday…
Article is right on and Mike was right on, as he is more often than not, its just hard to accept guys blasting your team. But one error in the article. Mike’s biggest target isn’t the Mets, isn’t Alderson, isn’t Wilpon, his biggest target is Rex Ryan and the J E T S Jets Jets Jets, Go Big BVlue!
Mike is absolutely right. Also to say Mike isn’t objective when he talks about the Mets really isn’t true. He just tells Met fans what they don’t want to hear but it’s true. He doesn’t just pick on the Mets without good reason. Yesterday’s rant was long overdue.WTF is the plan?
Good point Fonz, I have heard the big bastard say nice things about the Mets when the team was playing well. That just usually doesn’t happen.
Hi Fonzi,
Agree with you too about Francesa usually being objective and that he has given the Mets good marks when they deserved it. I’m just so happy to have heard him publicly blast Alderson and the ownership for their BS. If ever we needed a public voice, his would be the loudest one.
Now we know that Francesa is also a savvy radio host who knows when to create controversy just for the sake of controversy and insult callers and even one or two he interviews, but when one can see through the showmanship, one can see he knows what he is talking about – most of the time.
The Met fans are the only ones that can make a difference. I hate to do it to the players . the vendors, and all the other employees at Citi Field, but unless there is a boycott by the fans nothing will change. Francesa is right-Met fans are gullible and a Citi Field boycott will send a message. I ask my fellow Met fans ; in your wildest imagination do you think Yankee fans would tolerate a ballclub of the Mets’ talent and management?
i only see interviews
Try youtube. Type in Mike Francesa rants. I’m sure somebody posted it by know.
He actually was worse on Thursday, lol. Yesterday’s show was more subdued if you can believe it. I’m shocked that Alderson and Collins still go on as guests. Although he seems to like Collins, but still.
LOL….sports fans still tune in to his show?
I expect nothing to change as long as the Wilpons own this team.
Exactly. The only thing the Wonderless Wilps have a legitimate talent for is finding and hiring total ineffective ass-kissers as general managers.
You went from amazing minor league reporter to anti-Alderson shill. What happened?
It is what is is. You don’t have to read my stuff anymore.
You write good stuff. I’ll keep reading it because it is good. I’m just surprised at the slant you are taking as you generally seem to be able to look at stuff without a bias.
A Yankee sycophant, destroying the mets because he can’t formulate what the plan is, or rather, destroying the Mets because their plan is longer than 1 year… If this article wasn’t chumming the waters for lunatic fringe, demanding a world series caliber type team now, finances be damned, farm system be damned, then I don’t know what is…
A fat clown trolling for callers is what this is. I’m sure he misses Mad Dog, or at least we do, because someone needs to balance out the Yankee Cialis this guy takes on a daily basis.
Yankee Cialis – hahahaha
I had to stop listening to him when Mad Dog left. Right or wrong, I just can’t stand the long pauses, the stuttering, his absolute inability to finish a sentence and his constant talking over callers and most guests.
His time has come and gone.
Agreed. The in ability to be impartial was balanced when Mad Dog was around. When the ended, so did a good radio show.
I’d say “this”, but I am scared of being profiled by Metsie.
Why didn’t you just say “THIS”? lol
Do you two travel in pairs?
No, but we have been known to share long walks on the beach as the sun sets.
LOL
Let’s just say that great minds think alike.
That should get Maniac going.
A Yankee sycophant, destroying the mets because he can’t formulate what the plan is.
Pray tell. For the sake of those in our fanbase who are not as enlightened as you, please do share what the plan is and provide any evidence if you can. I appreciate insightful fans like you, who actually know the plan and are willing to share it with the rest of us.
With all humility.
Met Maniac
Ok, i’ll bite, because I’m bored and drinking beer. When you are restructuring the whole deal, top to bottom, it is not a one year fix. that I would think is fairly apparent. This team is shifting from a philosophy of being FA reliant because the minor league teams have nothing to trying to cultivate a steady stream of talent through the minor league system. That switch does not happen in a snap of the fingers nor a blink of the eyes.
Now, had the Wilpons not been kicked in the wallet by Madoff, maybe they could have done things different (re-signing Reyes and have Tejada be the 2B, not letting Frankie go, etc. etc), but as Ice Cube once lamented, “S*** ain’t like that”. The inability to see that befuddles me.
Nobody is expecting a one year fix. We are just expecting a direction – is that too much to ask?
You can’t say we are rebuilding because in this years draft, we didn’t sign half of the players we drafted! We also cut a minor league team during the offseason. And we had a chance to pick up a decent prospect or two for Hairston and didn’t do so.
That’s not how “rebuilding” teams operate.
And we are obviously not trying to win now because who’s the best player added to the team in the last two years? Hairston? He can’t even play everyday!
We aren’t rebuilding, and we sure as hell aren’t trying to win now, so what exactly are we doing?
It seems as though the last two years have just been wasted – No impactful signings, no creative trades to help the major league team – In the last two years, nothing has been done to fix any of the teams needs. The only move that could help in the future is Wheeler – That’s it – Just one minor league pitcher, who may or may not be good………Sorry but, most Mets fans expect and deserve better than that.
Vinny, I find you to be one of the most level headed posters here. Now, for you to say, we didn’t sign half the draft, when the half that wasn’t signed was the back half, is misleading. Had that been they had signed rd 12 and on, but nine before, yeah, I’d be upset. But the fact they signed almost the entire first half of the draft, are you still upset t not signing the later picks?
And no, I don’t think they are trying to win now. Does that piss me off? Actually, no. I’m sure I’ll be tarred and feathered for that, but I’m not thinking they would win this (or next) based on what they have, what their financial restrictions are and what they have in the minors. This was a 3-5 year rebuild from the start. We all knew that and for those who went on what Alderson said are mental midgets. They all say that crap and if you can’t see through that, well, I’m sure there is a support group available for you (in general, not you specifically).
It seems like people are upset by the fact that Alderson isn’t saying “well, we are packing it in, going to go for draft picks and I hope you still come out and buy or $12 beers”. For those still in college, please take marketing 101. Thn you may sart to understand.
As for you specifically, Vinny, look at the actions of the team and ignore the ramblings of the GM. Who cares what the hell he says. Saying does not equal doing. (And not factoring in the Madoff mess into all the above is like wearing blinders)
I’ll remind you of wat everyone in your “THIS” club said when it was Omar giving away a top pick for a Free Agent All star to make a run for the playoffs.
There are All Stars in EVERY round of the draft! You just have to take them and sign them!
So anyone we didn’t sign in the late half of the draft has just as much potential to be al All Star as anyone you cited Omar for letting go to get a Closer!
What in the wild world of sports are you saying? All stars in every round of the draft? Yeah, it ends up that way, so are you going to sart flaming the pirates or the astros for passing in a 30th round guy that panned out? What in the hell are you raging about?
yeah feign confusion that will work….
For the last two years you all complained about Omar not paying overslot and ignore the fact Sandy didn’t sign his 2nd rounder because he refused to even pay STRAIGHT SLOT!
What round was Polanco drafted in? He was used often to proclaim the genius of the Phillies building just a mere year ago!
What round was James Shields drafted?
People touted Russel Martin as a good catcher what round did the Dodgers get him?
How about Ian Kinsler? Have any idea where he was picked?
Where pray tell was Jose Batista picked? He was used quite often as an example of what you can get in the later rounds!
Was Mark Buehrle a top 10 Pick? Ok a Top 20 Pick? No? A top 30 Pick?…Try again!
Albert Pujols was a 13th rounder….But he wasnt worth signing since he was such a late pick right?
Need more? OK FINE!
Ken Griffey Jr 29th round!
Kent Hrbek 17th round
Mark grace 24th Round
Kenny Lofton 17th Round
Brett Saberhagen 19th Round
Roy Oswalt 23rd Round
Don Mattingly 19th Round
Andy Pettite 22nd Round
Jorge Posada 24th Round
Keith Hernandez 42nd Round
Orel hershiser 17th Round
Jeff kent 20th Round
John Smoltz 22nd Round
Ryne Sandberg 20th Round
Mike Piazza 62nd Round!
I think I have made my point quite clearly now the only question is are you able to comprehend any of the FACTS?
So you are cherry picking the later rounds for all the teams to show that there were good major leaguers that emerged? Solid work. Please show the percentage of solid major leaguers that came from those rounds. I’m sure it is close to 5 or 2 percent.
Thats a 2-5% more than we have now isn’t it?
Are we rebuilding? NO!
We are LIQUIDATING!
When you rebuild you invest in the future…
What we are doing is Liquidating!
Thats the plan all you folks in nthe ‘THIS” club have been supporting for a year and a half now!
THIS!
And it doesn’t have to be stars. It could be guys like Edgin(30th rd) or Gee(21strd). Or it could be guys like Maron(34thrd) or Mchugh(18thrd), who may not work out, but will add depth to the system and could be used as potential trade bait to help out the major league team in the future.
If your rebuilding, your going to want to have depth in your system. And you can’t have that if you don’t sign half your picks.
Root for the Astros. They signed almost all their draft picks.
NJ/TX – The Astros are really rebuilding, that’s why they signed all their draft picks. That’s what rebuilding teams do. They draft diligently. They accumulate depth. They dont mail it in after the 10th round like the Mets did.
I dont know what the Mets are doing but it’s not rebuilding.
You dont let a talented RHP like Stankiewicz go when your system is hard up for top level starters. Especially one that throws 95mph at 17.
How do you fail to sign a top 75 pick?
Are you rooting for us or against us?
I’ve stated before that I wished they did sign Stanky. I have no clue why they did not. So I won’t make that a point of contention.
And I appreciate the privilege to post here, joe. It is a privilege. That said, to call me out saying whom do I root for is ridiculous. I’m not root for you or the proverbial “us”. I’m rooting for the Mets, and to me, they are 2+ years away from sustained excellence and I won’t be swayed in that thinking. 2014 will be the beginning of (hopefully) a good run. Thinking 2012 or 2013 was going to be that year is silly. Do I wish it was 2012 or 2013, absolutely. I wish it was every year since 1912, but it ain’t like that. I don’t pretend to think otherwise.
The main point I’m tryin to get accross here is that the same folks who like ‘THIS” plan are the same folks who dragged Omar over the coals for giving up a single 1st rounder (in an even WEAKER draft than this one) to get a KNOWN All Star for a tead he was BUILDING.
They think Rebuilding is all about getting guys from BA’s list in the first 10 rounds and the rest is just AAAA Fodder.
Which is why they all poo poo our MiL system because none of them are on BA’s list despite them being pretty good ballplayers especially considering where we drafted them!
They only know what someone else had written and posted and anyone who doesn’t buy “THIS” is crazy insane, a HATER or NOT A FAN!
No what we are is people who pay attention and don’t just suck up anything we read on the internet as the gospel unless the actions back up the statements being made!
We are not rebuilding squat!
The Minors are pretty much the same Minors they were when Sandy got here save a Draft and a half of new players!
Of which only ONE has actually made thier highly touted BA List!
But Sandy is doing a good job!
They know!
They read it on the internet!
What a great comeback – Doesn’t change anything I said.
You can’t say your rebuilding if you don’t sign half your picks – That’s not how rebuilding teams operate. You’ll never have depth in your system if you don’t sign half your picks
They are rather pathetic in thier responses when you bash them over the head with logic and facts aren’t they?
Sorry, but you can’t say that your rebuilding when you fail to sign half your picks – Regardless of what round. You can’t rebuild if you don’t sign half your picks – It’s just not possible.
And one of the picks they didn’t sign was a 2nd round pick, Stankiewicz. There was no good reason why they didn’t sign him. He wasn’t asking for unreasonable amounts of money.
And what about cutting a minor league team? How can you say your rebuilding, when you get rid of a minor league affiliate?
or what about not trading Hairston for a decent prospect or two? If your rebuilding, wouldn’t you jump at the chance to add prospects into your system? Espcially when the guy your trading may not be back the next year.
So, I am looking at the actions of the team. And their actions are showing that they aren’t rebuilding, and they don’t have a plan.
Cutting a team? So they now have the same as the majority of all the other teams? I’d be upset if they cut the minors down to 2 teams. Saying you are upset that they cut a team to bring them down to the quote/unquote average number is being PO’D about nothing.
And no, I do think they should have signed Stanky. I can’t defend that. But I also have to say I have no control in that. I’d be more pissedif I was a Pittsburg fan that saw their team not sign Apple. But what ever, I can’t say what it should have been.
As for the rest of your rant, Can’t say what should or shouldn’t have been done. I wanted Murph traded, but he was apparently only gaining interest for back end BP guys. I’m sure Hairston was gaining the same. I would have loved to seen murph, Hairston, Brudak, among others traded to make this team better, but it didn’t happen. The new compensation plan for trades/FAs completely changed the market. As such, I will assume that offseason trades will be exponentially bigger than mid-season trades. Have to take that for
For what it is.
You don’t think having an extra minor league affiliate could benefit an orginazation – especially one that’s “rebuilding”? Really?
According to Pete, the youngest players in our system are getting destroyed every night because they are now forced to play older and more experienced players because we got rid of one of our affiliates. You don’t think it would be better if those kids played against players that are at their level? Your saying that wouldn’t help a team trying to rebuild?
So every other ball club that has the exact same number of minor league teams as we now have were at the same disadvantage? Again, you are are exceptional poster that puts out fact after fact, but what the hell are you talking about?
Good job Vinny!
When your agenda is to defend Alderson at all costs this is their mantra:
1. If we didn’t sign a free agent player who would have been a great addition?
We dont have the money!
2. If we dont make make a deadline move to stay in the hunt?
How is one player going to help this team!
3. If we dont chase a solid veteran?
We are rebuilding!
4. If we dont sign half our draft picks?
There was nothing there worth signing/bad draft class!
5. If we do nothing in the offseason?
Sandy’s hands were tied!
6. If the Mets get off to a bad start?
Well what did you expect!
7. If the Mets get off to a great start?
Thank God Sandy is here!
They’re so stupid they don’t even realize how asinine they all sound.
RDMB = Real Dimwitted Mets Bloggers!
Spoken like a true Wilpon apologist NJsTX! Well done! Your comment made a little bit of vomit come up in the back of my throat. Thank you! Why don’t you have another beer?
Oh, Petey. I thought you were rational and coud interpret facts. Oh well…
You don’t have any facts just excuses!
In fact that is all you guys have ever had!
You all thought Sandy was rebuilding but whenever pressed you run from the question which is:
‘Other than Wheeler what have we done to rebuild and stock our Minor system with?”
“Other than Wheeler, Who is the acquisition that is going to turn this team around to being a winner?”
You guys never answer that question and enquiring minds want to know WHY?
Pray tell, what is the question? And please puts aid question out ther in less than 250 words please. My original comment was about whatever said plan of Alderson was. You all are all upset Alderson didn’t lay out his entire plan to Joe to post at some point? Come on now, let’s be rational and understand that was never gong to happen.
So you want to know Alderson’s plan complete and utterly? Yeah, I’m sure we all would. Why would he share that? Maybe he would break that with Mad Dog, err, Fat Guy.
More stalling for time to avoid them I see…They were both clearly posted in the post you replied to!
If you need help …Questions are usually followed by a Question Mark “?”
Does that help you and your limited brain to find them?
You are a benefit to Joe’s web hits and a detriment to his band width allocation.
And your running away from and afraid to answer the question which if you would do would have reduced Joes needed bandwidth because it wouldn’t take 9 fewer posts to get an answer to one question!
You think the plan is to not be FA reliant yet we fail to sign half our draft picks?
Is that the implementation of a plan that makes us less reliant on Free Agents?
Or one that makes us even MORE reliant on them since we gave up on half the kids we had before even trying them out?
Please don’t try and sell us that this is about not being reliant on FA as the truth is it is making us MORE reliant on free agents and since we need so many we can’t spend to get good ones just more under 3 Mil per year crap garnage other teams threw away so we can fill all those spots those wasted picks didn’t fill!
http://realdirtymets.com/2012/06/11/a-look-at-the-latest-2012-ny-mets-draft-signings-pool-amounts/
As you can see, they didn’t sign 1 of the first 14 rounds. Obviously they are horrible. Not signing 4 of your first 20 rds is bad. Wayyyyyyyy bad. If you are truly pissed about not signing 21st rd+ players, I can’t help you.
Hey it was a year ago that people blamed Omar for not signing guys…
But I guess that rule doesn’t apply to Sandy right?
You Lament the fact he didn’t get Wendel Fairley and that Omar wouldn’t go overslot but ignore the fact that our second round pick wasn’t signed by Sandy nor even offerred SLOT money to sign him!
the “THIS” club seems to have two different rules regarding what is a mistake and what is smart depending on which GM did it!
Sandy can do no wrong and Omar did no right!
Nah, I’m still not happy with Omar about that as well. Omar had his good points as well as Sandy has had his bad. I’m not happy with the SP depth that Sandy has signed, but I’m a Sandy lover because I believe he had no money to work with. Whatever Holmes…. Keep on believing what you want to.
No your a Sandy lover because you have a problem with it when Omar did it but defended and excused Sandy when he did it!
Please show me examples vs throwing crap up into the wind and hoping it sticks to something
Read this thread!
Your defending Sandy for giving up draft picks and two posts before this one you say Omar made a mistake doing so!
You really suck at this debating thing dude!
You should just keep quiet and limit your responses to somthing like….”THIS”
Less rope to hang yourself with!
“with all humility”.
LOL – Maniac, that was good!
I don’t care for Francesa at all and what’s so big about stating the obvious? We all know that the team had and has flaws up and down the roster. We know that ownership is not going to fix this situation by throwing money at it. We know that the GM had no intentions of improving the team before the all star break, at the all star break, or at the deadline. We know that the bullpen is awful, the starting pitching is weak (outside of Dickey), the offense is on hiatus, Terry’s righty lefty line ups stink, Jason Bay is through, Wright is on his annual slump, Ike is very streaky, and so on, and so on. These are all obvious issues and not relief is in sight. No knock on Maholm, but no way the Mets should have been shutout by him last night. Again, I say we need to stop supporting this organization until it improves the product. You would not continue to purchase any product if it continued to be crap! I love my Mets but right now the people in charge are not putting the pieces in place for this team to succeed. I will not invest another dime until that changes.
Everything that’s been said is true and then some.It’s really heartbreaking to watch this team.I’m on the verge of shutting them down for the rest of the year.
Mike is right. What is the bleeping plan??? It would cost me a small fortune to go to CitiField. I have not gone yet because THERE IS NO PLAN! THERE IS NOTHING for me to look forward to! Any way you slice it, Mike speaks the truth! Good for him for being so honest!
This guy is hardly ever right but he is good at one thing and one thing only…
He knows which way the fan wind is blowing and he is going to voice it in order to get more fans to help contribute to his show by calling in and agreeing with him making his ratings go up and him look smart for realizing and agreeing with what many have been asking for well over a year now!
I have always enjoyed Mike but I listen to him as a knowledgeable Sports guy that knows how to stir things up while being entertaining at the same time. He talks of a plan but I believe he knows what it is as many if you look at what has transpired over the last 2 seasons. Get out from under some bad contracts that have burdened the team while allowing time for the farm to develop and trying to be competitive while working under the sword of Damocles that was the Madoff situation.
Forget year 1 or not but whatever the case the team was at the peak of what they were going to spend and the biggest moves was handling the Beltran situation as well as it was followed by getting a better than expected trade for him at the deadline. Plus finding a way not to be on the hook for an obscene $17.5M vesting option that KRod was close to attaining.
Year 2 you already have the Wilpons saying the payroll was not going to be as high despite thoughts from the FO to the contrary in earlier statements before the season ended. Niese was signed to an extension and Reyes most know was not going to be resigned if it meant guaranteed 6 yrs or $100M and so he is a Marlin today. Free agency was used to address the pen and the additions made along with the returning arms have been subpar to say at best.
Last years draft seems to be doing well along with some International signings like Montero but this year’s draft undoubtedly has been a disappointment not in those they drafted but more in the failings to sign them something that I see no reason as to why it should of happened.
The team played better over their 1st 86 games than most gave them any credit for coming into the season. It has allowed the emergence and growth of a couple of players that may actually be parts of something long term like the continued growth of Niese. The development of Tejada. Ike Davis possibly getting through the hardest stretch in his career and still on pace to hit 31 HR’s and 93 rbi’s. Wright coming back to have a silver slugger type season as a 3rd baseman. And the emergence of Edgin and Harvey to the pitching staff.
Now the Madoff situation is resolved and year 3 as they host the 2013 ASG is up next. How the team approaches the off season will be revealing to say the least.
Excellent post North!
Why are we critisizing him, he is actually defending us met fans. Ive been listening all yr and hes done nothing but say how met fans have a right to be upset and hes right. Granted he is kind of a jerk but hes right on this
NJ/TX – I feel aggravated about that whole TS situation and you should too. He was an amazing talent. Mets fans should be mad about that, not defending it. Don’t mean to come off strongly on you, but that issue was near to me because I spoke with his family.
Hey Joe, this guy is more than likely three sheets to the wind by this time on a Saturday night, this is what he posted nearly three hours ago:
NJstuckinTX (Edit) August 11, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Ok, i’ll bite, because I’m bored and drinking beer.
That might explain why none of his comments make any sense. At least I hope that’s why.
Ah, Petey. There are those of us that are still in our right mind after consuming a pint or two. If what I’ve said above is blatantly wrong, feel free to correct it with fact. To poke fun and not have much else to say in a post is chuckle eliciting, but not much else.
NJ/TX, the privilege is all mine and it is I that appreciate that you take the time to comment here. I’m a little grouchy today and on top of that, not signing Stankiewicz is a sore spot for me. In 2014 Teddy will be a top 10 overall pick in the draft. You read it here first.
Look, in general I am in the “Alderson camp” but I whole heatedly agree with you on not signing Stanky.
And again, thank you for allowing us all to post. It is a privilege, which I hope all remember.
How long before you have to blow into a breathalyser before you can post here? LOL
Guys – I really think some of you need to take a break from baseball for a week or two.
We’re Mets fans. We’ve been on a break since 2009.
Let’s not forget that this is the same guy who just 48 hours before, sometime between 5:30pm and 6pm, told a caller the Mets had absolutely planned to be buyers until the slide started right after the break. It’s right there in his archives. Now, because the wind is blowing that way, he rails on the Mets. This is why he’s a joke.
Earlier I said that Francesa knows how to create controversy for controversy’s sake (i.e., ratings) but so many here have reminded me how he had also praised Alderson for setting the Mets in the right direction. He backed Sandy in his trade of Beltran for Wheeler too, often saying how great a move it was.
So who is the real Mike? I guess we don’t exactly know because in many ways his credibility on certain subjects is marred by his often taking alternate sides of the issue when it seems to be beneficial for him. He knows many of us turn to the news or other stations when he’s conducting a boring program.
OK Gang,
Know I’m late on the uptake but what is meant by “THIS”?
It basically means you agree with the persons comment.
SA was forced on Wilpons because of Madoff, lack of attendance plus all the loans that MLB gave them plus helped them get form other sources”; that is why SA is here to help “save” the Mets franchise for NY by not allowing Wilpons to lose the team; so the fans get the screws and are forced to try and figure out a FO that is supposed to be re-building while not signing their draftees, must be madness to this operation.
Hi Sarge,
Judging from the responses of late, it seems more are starting to see what you, I and others had been professing for quite a while.
The Mets are rebuilding and it all depends on how well the prospects perform. It could take 3 years and it could take 10 years, but given the financial limitations surrounding the team it is impossible for the Mets to spend like they used to.
It is impossible to judge Sandy until we see how his rebuilding plan works. I know many expect to be in the playoffs every year, but it’s not going to happen until the Mets create a foundation and given the state of the farm system when Sandy took over, it’s a pretty long way away.
2014 has always been goal and we can only hope that our young guys turn into good players because despite the fact that the team is “homegrown” a lot of the young guys we’ve seen Spin, Duda, Kirk, Thole, Davis have been part of the problem.
Luckily between the low minors and a pretty good 2010 draft, Omar left Sandy something useful and with a really promising 2011 draft, hopefully guys like Tejada, Harvey, Edgin, Wheeler, Flores continue to progress and Davis, Duda, Kirk, Spin can turn it around…
Anybody recall what Sandy Alderson himself said around July 21?
“It’s not a question of what we need to see on the field to make us buyers, it’s what we see on the field that causes us not to be buyers. The presumption here is that we’re buyers, and it has been. Realistically, the next seven, eight, 10 games become important for us.”
This contradicts the message he gave when in the broadcast booth prior to the all-star game break saying we were buyers and already looking into various acquisition possibilities:
http://www.bloggingmets.com/11559/sandy-alderson-appears-on-mets-broadcast/
Just like last season, Sandy once more needed to see what happened over the course of the following week or so to determine what direction he should take. Again this year, what the team had accomplished – despite having the worst bullpen in the majors and Davis and Duda mired in slumps – didn’t count.
Hence, despite certain ulterior motives, the Francesa comment does have real merit to it. While being facetious, he was right in saying “this Mets team picked the perfect time to collapse because they were never spending anyway. Buyers. Yeah, they were buyers alright. Yeah they were buyers alright. They waited this trade deadline out and the Mets gave them exactly what they desperately wanted – a well executed collapse in the days leading up to the deadline.”
Though the season might not have been salvageable, had even one or two moves been made based on the negotiations Sandy said he was conducting it would have meant the front office was at least somewhat sincere in trying to win this thing and in telling us the financial situation was on more stable ground. Francesa would have less basis for his criticism.
Instead, they were only giving us another round of lip service. Now, lip service for the fans is one thing. But what about those players from last year who remember the front office dismantling the club while they felt they had a valid shot and now find themselves again getting no support by the GM? Wouldn’t that cause any team to become demoralized rather quickly – for as I said before, we know this team is better than the way it has been playing the last four weeks.
Remember my concern about the long-term negative impact sacrificing 2011could have on team morale and confidence and that even obtaining a Zach Wheeler could easily create more damage than good? That showing the young kids support would go a long way to building up character, morale and winning experience. Why are the young kids giving up? Why in the back of my head is the thought that David Wright is actually hoping for a trade that he could agree with this winter just to get out of here? Why do I suspect free agents who have a choice of clubs with money being basically equal would avoid signing with us?
It is because this is what happens when one actually makes moves that hinders winning instead of supporting it. Things start to crumble all around because it creates a domino effect.
I’m wondering if Bud Selig is having second thoughts putting friendship in front of “the best interests of the game” as he so often calls things?
you are missing the key component that both Dillon Gee and Johan Santana were essentially removed from the rotation during the all-star break and that RA Dickey pitched poorly for the next 3 weeks. That changed everything.
The Mets went from having one of the best rotations in baseball to having a mediocre one at best within a week. Given how starting pitching pretty much dictates how your team performs, the Mets were screwed.
There is no question the Mets would not have tanked as fast had Sandy made a move anyway, but once the rotation turned for the worse, the season was over and no trade could be made to rectify that…
I think Sandy made a mistake by not trading for a reliever in early July, but the injuries to the rotation and the decline of Dickey and Wright would have prevented us from making the playoffs anyway…
I think you are missing Joey’s Point….
Sandy on July 21st he was still on the fence and was waiting for the team to fail or not before he would commit!
Well the trade deadline was only 10 days away at that point!
Even if he decided he was going to be a buyer anything worth buying would be well on the way to being traded by the time he decided to go get it!
Sandy did not WANT to buy!
He wanted us to compete well enough to lure fans to the stands but not enough that he wqas forced to abandon his slow snails pace plan to just draft and not spend (including not spending in the late draft) and hope by 2015-16 he had scored enough lottery tickets to turn the team around!
Thank you Metsie,
My point exactly.
Well, as if we didn’t already know….almost all Met fans hate Mike Francessa!
In so far as why…it is pretty much due to his arrogance, his unabashed love for the Yankees and his hatred of the Mets. Accepted!
In terms of the content of his latest Met bashing. Lots of “chum” to feed the frenzied fans who can’t accept the obvious facts that we are not as good as we played the first half. It was thrilling to see the team in 2nd place but it was just a matter of time for one or more of the other NL East teams to step forward and become a playoff team.
Francessa’s bashing of Sandy A is so wrong. Sandy never felt that the team was close enough to pull of another one of our “wishing and praying” quick fix trades that would end
up being wasted in terms of a dream of making the playoffs. We’ve been though that before!
The best kind of GM is one who can honestly observe his own players and admit
(although not out loud) that they are not ready yet to be serious contenders. That same GM weighs the risks of a Jose Reyes resigning against the reward and trusts his instincts by not yielding to those frenzied fans.
We needed bullpen help last year and he went out and made some moves. When all is said and done Francisco and Rauch will have helped despite some bad appearances. Wins and saves will be tougher now because the team is not scoring runs. The new kid Edgin seems like he has a future. The bottom line is that right now we have one stopper in Dickey, a decent # 2-3 guy in Niese, and not much else in terms of starting pitching.
A suggestion here….IGNORE THE RANTS A ND RAVES OF FRANCESSA AND ALL THE FRENZIED FANS WHO THINK THEY KNOW BETTER THAN THE BOSS.
WHEN DOUBLEDAY/ STERLING BOUGHT THE TEAM IN THE EARLY 80′S THE FIRST THING THEY DID WAS HIRE FRANK CASHEN….
WHEN THE WILPON’S FIGURED OUT THAT THEY NEEDED HELP TO RESURRECT THE TEAM BECAUSE OF FINANCIAL PROBLEMS AS WELL AS ORGANIZATIONAL MISTAKES THEY WERE SMART ENOUGH TO HIRE A GUY WHO WOULD NOT PANIC AND INSTEAD METHODICALLY CHANGE THE WAY THINGS WOULD BE DONE….
GET USED TO HIM….HE’S GONNA BE HERE FOR AS LONG AS HE WANTS!
Well, alan, I’m sure you and the three other remaining Alderson cult followerers will love it. Meanwhile, the turned off fan base will stay away in droves and someday, when Fred goes to He!! and junior is forced to sell the team you and the great one can cry your eyes out as real Met fans celebrate the dawning of a new age in Queens. Until then, enjoy the lies, the losing and the corrupt ownership. I guess the three or four of you deserve it.
Hi Oleo,
Santana was just a temporary loss – not a season loss like Gee. As it is, for the long run our rotation is still Dickey/Santana/Neise/Young and Wheeler. But Young was the key to indicate that Sandy had no intention of doing anything above using a bargain basement priced player. Sandy’s plan for shoring up the earlier loss of Pelfrey was Young – who has pitched how many innings over how many past seasons with how many surgeries on his arm ? What more does one need to know?
On July 7 we were tied for the second wild card spot, and a half game out of the first one. Even with the subsequent loss of Gee, people were not considering it a major blow because it was felt by Wally Backman and others that Harvey was ready (Sandy being the voice against it). Strengthening our bullpen and adding some hitting would have compensated for less dependency on the starting pitching putting up such great numbers.
We also saw that in July there were starters other clubs got for cash and low level minor league prospects. In fact, many clubs, including the Dodgers, Pirates, made major deals in which they gave up little talent. This included starting pitching, relief pitching and position players. Others gave up some highly regarded prospects but look at who they got in return – and not just as rental.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1280059-mlb-trades-2012-winners-and-losers-from-trade-deadline
Oleo, this team could have been better and that avalanche of losses could have been avoided. How many games did we begin we losing simply due to the front office doing nothing to shore up our weak spots? How much did it that indifference cause other players to begin pressing more to compensate for that? How long was it before it became obvious no help was on the way that it just simply became demoralized instead of believing it could bounce back?
The season was not lost upon the injury of Dillon Gee nor was it lost due to Santana slipping. As other clubs did, we could have strengthened our weak spots to compensate for less reliability on the starting rotation. We didn’t.
there is no question that this team would have been better had Sandy added a bullpen arm or two, but once the rotation dissolved the season was over.
Sandy could have added Carlos Quentin and Huston Street while cutting Ramirez and Bay and there it would have kept the team in the playoff race. Certainly we would not be 6 games under right now and barely staying out of last place, but we would not be making the playoffs and would still be out of the race by September.
I don’t see how any trade would have changed the fact that our rotation went from great to bad in 3 weeks and that Wright was fading, which was the sole reason we were doing so well in the first place.
Ah, so the great one is a seer of the future. The great one saw the downfall of Gee and the “foot stepping” on Santana before it happened and his great knowledge of the future was the reason he didn’t try to improve the team, nor build for the future. Truly amazin…. not what the great one did, but how the cult will come up with anything to defend their failure of a GM. Man, that dumb Brave GM, ignored all thise injuries to his rotation and just kept on improving his team. what a bad break fro the Bravos too have such a dumb GM. The Mets are truly blessed.
If he did see all that then he should have had a backup plan to deal with it not just wave the white flag and cry ‘No Mas!”
Here is the problem you seem to be missing….
He DID add a bullpen arm or two…Actually he added THREE!
Only one of which actually has gotten the job done more often than failed!
The problems you claim about the starting rotation should have been addressed in the offseason not AFTER you lose THREE of your starters!
We knew going into the season that there was a high probability that we would lose a starter at some point during the season. Especially when your supposed ACE was coming off a surgery that no one up till then had come back from in any effective way!
What was the backup plan to that?
Chris Young who was pretty much in the same boat as that ACE only with a year less rehab time than Santana!
If Santana was the only one we lost then Young would have been fine as our only backup plan but we lost Pelfrey before that Backup was even ready to pitch forcing us to go with the Schwindens, Hefners and Batistas who at best were plan B and performed more like a Plan 9 from outer space!
None of those guys could go more than 4 or 5 innings which exposed the bad choices made for our Bullpen help!
Once Young got up to take Pelfrey’s place the cubboard was bare. Once Gee went down we were back to Plan 9 from outer space and then throw Santana getting injured on top of that and you have our current “ED WOOD” production we are seeing during this losing streak!
This resulted in forcing Sandy’s hand into bringing up a kid (Harvey) who had deemed “NOT READY” a week before after one start that was worse than his audition start was!
And even with Harvey your still relying on those guys who have not gotten the job done to fill in forcing us to rush back Santana when he was clearly not ready to face MLB pitching after a weekend of pitching to A ball batters.
This is the snowball effect at play, Sandy was un-prepared for any injury to his starting rotation and once that injury ball started rolling he was snowed over with no plan to deal with it!
Add to it the fact that he chose poorly when trying to fix the pen and you have the making of a bad B Movie quality baseball team!
Which is what you SHOULD expect when you fix things with B Movie Talent simply because it’s affordable!
Hey Metsie,
Didn’t you catch Sandy’s announcement today? Here it is:
“Greetings, my friend. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these will affect you in the future. You are interested in the unknown… the mysterious. The unexplainable. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, we are bringing to you, the full story of what happened on that fateful day. We are bringing you all the evidence, based only on the secret testimony, of the miserable souls, who survived this terrifying ordeal. The incidents, the places. My friend, we cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let us punish the guilty. Let us reward the innocent.”
With apologies to Criswell.
He should keep Criswell’s Coffin handy as the FO might be neededing it this time next year.
They should also worry about sticking a gun in their mouth while trying to figure out things….
And I could never figure out how those hub caps could be described as cigar shaped.