List all the can’t miss top prospects they traded away if thats what you think they did!

Truth is they gave away squat and took on Salary in many cases because they don’t have the same problem with spending you do!

Or prospects from their farm?

And you act as if the guys they brought up were fill ins and fringe players.

Hi Metsie,

I don’t even think we can include the Mets in that one since their financial problems stem from things way more than the high payroll. And I’m not thinking in terms of Madoff or any other outside source. Their financial problems as related specifically to the Mets as an operation independent in and of it’s own self, icame from outpricing the Met fan with a smaller capacity ballpark and counting on companies and well-to-do individuals to invest either in season tickets or luxury suites.

So let’s ignore the financial debt the WIlpons find themselves in from outside the operation of the New York Mets itself and ask ourselves this. The Mets projected being able to break even with the payroll they had back in 2009 by drawing an approximate average of 38,200 fans per game based on 2009 ticket prices. Since nobody is willing to spend that much, they are drawing much less even with the price of tickets going down (though artifically raised by the high “processing” charges which all clubs do so they can keep the entire revenue from those fees for themselves whereas a portion of the actual ticket price has to be shared with the visiting team).

So have they painted themselves into a corner since even if they sell-out the joint it would have to be done with much lower revenue coming in due to reduced ticket prices? Wouldn’t that still mean maintaining an operating budget as low as it has become now? It’s not just the payroll – look at all the money they didn’t use to sign more of their draft picks. Last season they lost $70 million alone, according to Sandy Alderson and they are projected to do so again, despite the reduction in payroll and cost cutting measures throughout the organization.

Would it therefore be impossible to break even and field a competitive team at the same time? Unless one believes in fielding a team comprised mostly of players not yet elibible for free agency I do not think so.

Many of us have been pointing out that too many are thinking in terms of it being either Sandy’s way or Omar’s way or nothing else . We are looking for a middle ground, one with flexibility and the wisdom to know when to spend, when not to spend and on whom. When to dump, when to re-sign, when to count on a minor leaguer to take over a position, etc. When to sign a long-term contract with a star with many prime years projected ahead in lieu of having a year or so left due to age. Of knowing when to trade prospects and not.

And one knowing that one or two off years due to injury does not mean the team needs a total rebuilding but rather a tune-up and that with two key additions and some role fitting others via free agency (therefore not costing us prospects) a team that wasn’t descimated by injury could also go from being .500 one year to a contender the next without sacrificing the future.

You think Major League Baseball’s first season was 1996?

Have you ever heard of Gene Michael or Bob Watson?

“Sorry but spending didn’t cost us from being competitive it was spending (and not enough of it) that gave you three meaningfull Septembers to watch and if not for some key injuries in 2009 probably 4!”

So, 5 straight division titles are not good enough but “meaningful Septembers” are?

Sorry I’m not here every minute of every day, I actually have adult responsibilities and a life. I guess that would qualify you as the stalker to notice I wasn’t around each day.

Typical

Sorry but spending didn’t cost us from being competitive it was spending (and not enough of it) that gave you three meaningfull Septembers to watch and if not for some key injuries in 2009 probably 4!

NOPE he shipped them out quicker than spit!

Just as many of Sandy’s supporters think Wilpon is setting the Budget and determining who to get why would you not take that “OVERSIGHT” to the next level and realize it’s just as likely that Eisenhardt and Rigney told Sandy hey we want to pay this guy X amount to keep him now go get it done?
Eisenhardt playing rhe role you would like to give to Wilpon now!

What those who think the 1992 Salary was an example of spending have never come to grips with is payroll itself is not an indicator of what they are willing to spend but what the players they had were worth even if they were not Free Agents…
Arbitration is the LEADING cause of high and accelerated payroll not Free Agency!
Can you even name a free agent signing with large payroll addition they made from 1989 to 1992? How many top of the heap free agents did they sign during that time?

You all point to the change in ownership in 1995 as the reason Sandy had to resort to cutting spending and Moneyball but the truth is their payroll had already peaked in 1992 at 41M and was on the way down with two consecutive years of cuts to 37.8M and 34.1M before the owner died and new owners forced Sandy to not spend! And in the end all he really cut was 16M when it comes right down to it!

What was the excuse or reason forcing Sandy to cut payroll those years?
Were they losing money?

What happened in San Diego? Did they spend there? Were those owners broke and losing money too?

My point is simple if you think the Wilpons are to blame for the lack of spending then it’s a bit hypocritical to think ownership at the time he actually spent wasn’t just as involved in what he did!

Truth is maybe they are the reason we are not spending which is why they hired Sandy who has the reputation and resume that says he doesn’t spend!
Just as you would hire a plumber to fix a pipe they hired a bean counter to fix the lack of beans!

So new ownership is only going to help you if they hire someone else to run the team with a better skillset for baseball than he has for beans!

“and finally there is nothing to show that if Sandy had an owner with deep pockets that he would spend more money than he has!”

Needless to say, if the Mets had an owner with deep pocket Sandy would still be working for the Commissioner.

I’m sure had everything else in the Wilpon financial empire remained the same as it was prior to the winter of 2008, they would have found ways to spend more money even with the current drop in revenue from a lack of attendance and falling ticket prices. The Mets are too much of a money maker for Fred, Jeff and Saul from indirect sources outside of attendance and concessions of which they also control.

But I understand your point that despite whatever their other financial worries are, had the Mets been able to break even with the high costs of running the team with the payroll that we had become accustomed to, then we wouldn’t have seen the massive downsizing that has occurred. Guess you can blame it on us Met fans for refusing to take out low-interest loans in order to have enough money to go to a ball game. The Wilpons and Katz did this to themselves by building a smaller ballpark and expecting even more money coming in from smaller crowds than the profits they had already garnered at Shea. They let their grasp exceed their reach.

Even if Selig had taken over the team he still would have zero control over the Stadium or SNY!

You folks need to stop linking the two as the same entity merely because one guy owns shares of each of those companies!

Second point, McCort was robbing that team blind for his own personal gain! They were broke because of it!
The Wilpons were not taking money FROM the team they were just having issues trying to pay bills the team didn’t cover! Something an Owner if all is going well is not supposed to do!

and finally there is nothing to show that if Sandy had an owner with deep pockets that he would spend more money than he has!

Even if there was an owner with deep pockets to buy the team it is doubtfull he takes on the salary the dodgers did with our current attendance what it is!

AT best maybe reyes comes back and Beltran gets an offer in hopes of maintaining attendance and maybe they eat Bay’s contract in hopes his replacement on the roster plays well enough to get more to come but thats about it!

Sandy has never spent anywhere he has been!

And it doesn’t matter who owns the team that won’t change!
The only thing that might change if we had an owner who wanted to throw money around is he would go hire a GM who has no issues with spending meaning Sandy your Fired!

You are right. It’s just that some of us feel the Mets weren’t in that position a few years back either. Nobody will deny they were nothing more than a .500 team (to be fair, injuries didn’t help) but other teams have shown that with a few additions (rather than subtractions) that .500 club the next year can be in the thick of at least the wild card.

Eventually, if they didn’t make moves down the road yes, they would have needed to rebuild but if they were more flexible, maybe not as well. It’s something nobody will ever know.

Nope, not comparing the Met situation to that of the Phillies but do want to make the point that 1) with the wildcard one does not have to be as good as Philadelphia to get into the post-season and 2) the Mets were not without their share of good quality players as well since Sandy took over as general manager and the Mets could have built around that core too.

Of course, that is if the Mets had the resources to do it or those resources had to be used for something else.