28
2012
What If Selig Treated Mets The Way He Did Dodgers?
An article by 
Over a year ago the Dodgers and Mets were in deep financial distress when Commissioner Bud Selig strong armed Los Angeles owner Frank McCourt into selling the team by first taking financial control?
He did so despite claims McCourt had worked out a regional television deal that might have eased most of the Dodgers’ problems.
The Dodgers were eventually sold to a group that includes Magic Johnson, and yesterday they had the resources to pull off a blockbuster deal with the Boston Red Sox and take on over $250 million in payroll. This, after trading for Hanley Ramirez.
Obviously, the Dodgers have deep pockets.
Today, while watching R.A. Dickey win his 16th game and break the Mets’ latest five-game losing streak, I couldn’t help but wonder what might have been if Selig had treated the Mets’ ownership of Fred Wilpon with the same tenacity he directed at the Dodgers.
If for sale, what could the Mets, with the team, SNY and Citi Field brought on the open market?
If the Mets had deep pockets I wouldn’t have made the trade the Dodgers did because of the players involved.
But, seemingly unrelated resources could have bought other worthy players this team needs. Just wondering.
Thoughts From Joe D.
John, while I agree somewhat, what would the deep pockets mean to a front office that has an aversion to any longterm contracts? His reaction to the Adrian Gonzalez deal, when asked to comment at the time, was to roll his eyes. He almost choked when told about Ryan Zimmerman’s deal and some feared he’d need the Heimlich Maneuver to bring him back.
Deep pockets and new ownership would be great – on that we are agreed.
But philosophies are philosophies regardless of resources. If your whole thing is about exploiting market inefficiencies, it has more to do with saving money and finding hidden value than it does spending money on talent that is proven and worth it.
So yes, while we all would welcome a change in ownership, it must also come with a change in philosophy as well – or in this case a new front office.
One doesn’t work without the other.
It’s no longer a hidden fact that Alderson was brought here to keep the Wilpons entrenched and in power, and on that front, this front office gets high marks and plenty of accolades.
Alderson may have taken a “baby step” as Wright put it as far as advancing the team, but he took one giant leap for mankind as far as advancing the hold the Wilpons have on this franchise.
As for Selig, he’s guilty of aiding and abetting for assigning Alderson to the Mets to see this mission through.
Alderson is a combat vet and knows how to follow orders and see that his missions are successful, and for that he earns the Bronze Star from both Wilpon and Selig.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 19 | .548 | 0.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 22 | .476 | 3.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 23 | .410 | 6.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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I don’t think “strongarmed” is the right term to use when the Dodgers had to declare bankruptcy. Same with the Rangers. Say what you will about the Wilpons and how the grass is always greener and such, but “strongarming” them to sell the team or to just assume control of it goes as far as to violate constitutional rights. It’s a capitalist society, and laws of business are governed as such. There’s nothing Selig can do to the Wilpons if even if he wanted to.
Fans not showing up to the ball park can do more damage to the wilpons than selig. Attendance is down from last year so far and it will be ghost town mid september the latest. so.. There’s that
Sadly, fans not showing up won’t have any effect on ownership. All it will do is decrease the amount of money the team has to spend on the roster.
The way MLB is setup, you don’t need to be successful to make money, it’s actually easier to not spend on the roster and be bad and make money then to spend money and risk failure.
As much as we want Wilpon to be gone, he’s here to stay.
This is why I avoid all the sill Sandy Alderson arguments that take place everyday here. The Alderson supporters think what has happened in the last two years is all according to Alderson’s plan or vision and can’t wait to see this plan come to it’s conclusion. In fact it’s just him doing what he was sent here to do by Selig and Wilpon. It’s a great plan for the descendants of Fred and Saul, but not so sure what this has to do with championships in the future.
Exactly, the man was brought here to clean up the financial mess, but don’t tell that to his slurpers, they somehow think it’s all part of his plan to build up a winner.
First thing cashen said when brought here was “we will win a pennant” SA hasn’t mention championship AT ALL in his lawyer like interviews and statements. That is why he does not care about his losing legacy as a GM.
He didn’t use the word pennant, but he did say championship caliber ballclub which is somewhat equivalent. Anyway, it’s almost 2014 so the wait is almost over.
Lol, SMH. cashen knew what he was getting into, but here’s what he said:
“I can’t tell you when are we going to win the pennant, I think we’re going to win the pennant, if I didn’t have this feeling I would not have taken the job.”—Frank Cashen during Mets press conference after he was hired as General Manager in January 1980″
Now, you wanna know what sandy alderson said: We’re gonna moneyball mets fans to death…
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/archive/_/month/october-2010
Ya, he doesn’t talk big. He should take lessons from Rex Ryan. That’s the kind of winner fans like you deserve.
Hi D. Meeker,
Well put!
Ya, because a winning NL club in the biggest market in the world has no benefit to Selig, a guy who wants his legacy to be TV ratings and expanding the game.
To pick up on Joey D .’s theme of Bronze star:
Met Fans are hurting and deserve the Purple Heart. They are bleeding orange and blue. We have a general with a bronze star who has no plan other than maintain ownership in the status quo. Unfortunately the NY Mets are also in a status quo of losing that has taken its toll on Met fans. I fear we will lose Sgt. Backman more than the lose of defacto captain DW.
Hi hostreak,
I don’t see how any other argument could be made when taking into account the Wilpons and their sudden turn-about in handling the team once they got slam-dunked financially. How they are letting the club to be run today goes against every pattern of behavior they have demonstrated since becoming majority owners. Though individuals might mellow, it is rare to see one take such a drastic 180 degree turn overnight unless forced to.
Excuse me, my friend, meant hotstreak, not hostreak. Don’t want to get into anything remotely resembling what happend to Don Imus a few years back.
Hi Joey D.
No problem with typo errors.
As you see by my prior posts I made more than my share.
The bad experience of Ollie, and Jason Bay has made them hesitant to sign FA. Building from the farm system is really rebuilding as missing pieces which are crucial to contending have to be signed as FA on a long term basis. Trades will not by itself except in the case of Gary Carter and Keith buy a championship. Joey D., I am curious: Do you think Josh Hamilton would make the Mets contenders? Payroll would be about 130 M where it should be. After Bay and Santana come off the books maybe Buster Posey or someone of that ilk would be an available FA. The idea in FA is to fill needs your system does not have. Superstars except salary dumps don’t usually get traded.
MLB is not a government entity so the constitutionality argument goes out the window immediately. Bud Selig has powers to act in the best interest of the game. If the Mets were to fall into a morass like the late 70s and with no attendance they were.forced to seek financing.again and again. He could then act, but the constitution has.nothing to do with this.
What if Selig just did us all a favor and retired already?
Did the wilpons buy the club under shifty means with money they didn’t have? No.
Are they in the middle of a divorce that not only hurts them financially, but is also publicly humiliating the franchise and the league? No.
Are they waiting to cut a new cable deal with FSN to carry their games? No.
Are they in a stadium that is ready to collapse? No.
Are they missing payments on security and maintenance that creates physically dangerous situations? No.
Let me know when they have a witch doctor sending good vibes to the team.
Alderson’s never said that he’s against spending money. He’s against spending money frivolously. And after Minaya did that year after year, shouldn’t we be happy about that? If you want to see a team just buy the biggest players, go root for the Yankees. The fact is, that’s not the best way to go about building a winning ballclub. The best way is to build from within and spend your money wisely. That’s what I want to see from the front office.
And just to be clear to the morons who think that anybody who doesn’t viciously attack Alderson at every possible opportunity is in love with him: I have no concrete feelings on the job he’s doing as a GM, good or bad. It’s still too early to make that call. Come to me in five years, and we’ll see if the Mets are yearly contenders or not. Then we can fairly judge what Alderson’s done.
Bingo, for some reason not attacking every move with gut reactions puts you in bed with the guy. My stance hasn’t changed from day one. He has until the end of 2013 and if I don’t feel like the Mets are on the right path I will hold the pitchfork for these guys just as I did with Omar. However, nothing is going to change that until I think he has been given enough time to right the ship. From the beginning I saw 2014 as the year they could become players again and for now I haven’t seen anything that changes that.
The visions of gumdrops and sugar plums dancing in your head remind me of when I was six. It must be nice to have your ability to dream so vividly. So let me know when Sandy finally rights the good ship lollipop, cant wait. Until then I try to live vicariously through you. Wow, you’ have changed, I think it’s okay for you to go back to MB. lol
I love gumdrops.
Me too. I see that chat room has become quite the happening place for game chats in the last week or so lol.
Yeah I noticed nobody in there. I hope you get back in there soon enough.
Twizzlers are even better though.
You know what’s funny is that everyone that wanted us out and got their wish don’t even chat “in peace” like they always wanted. Instead they all went away which only means they came there to solely to end the good thing we had going in there. Where are Salty, Angelo, dave56, Oleosmirf, TRS, Kay, srt, Kramer, Hitman, etc, etc, etc, these days? All gone away. I know I’m forgetting some of you, I apologize for that.
Oh don’t worry, I am still around. I am teacher if you recall and school just started back . Also, just like you to blame someone else for what happen. Or is this more of that baited so I can’t control myself crap?
By the way, just so you know I am on record saying I never wanted or cared if you or anyone else was banned or not. Alex knows and has admitted I never wanted I’m banned so you can exclude me from that list.
I can’t answer for anybody else but the team playing like crap has kept me more tuned into the minor leaguers with the game on in the backround instead of the other way around. I haven’t really been in the shoutbox until I went in tonight and there wasn’t much going on in there.
Are you kidding me with that crap Maniac? I did nothing to drive anyone away, in typical fashion, play the blame game and never take responsibility for your own actions. If you think I had anything to do with nonsense that happened in the chat room, you are sadly mistaken, again.
Sorry I’m not here every minute of every day, I actually have adult responsibilities and a life. I guess that would qualify you as the stalker to notice I wasn’t around each day.
Typical
Why because when he came I said it was a mess and it would take a while and I expect they are working towards 2014 and I will give him until the end of 2013…. Oooooohhhhh so much dreaming.
Hi Guys,
The reason I have not been in the chat box of late is because I haven’t really been bothering to watch the games except for a minute or so to see what’s going on.
As far as waiting five years to see Sandy’s results, it was interesting to note that Gary Cohen said in the opening (that part I did see) that with some good off season moves he can see the Phillies back as contenders next season. Considering so many of their key players are already in their thirties and already showing signs of slippage it shows one does not have to wait five years to get themselves back in the race – or at least attempt to.
Nope, not when you have three aces and cash it doesn’t take long at all… If it happens.
That being said if you think the Mets and Phillies situations have anything in common the this conversation will go nowhere.
Hi Tr,
Nope, not comparing the Met situation to that of the Phillies but do want to make the point that 1) with the wildcard one does not have to be as good as Philadelphia to get into the post-season and 2) the Mets were not without their share of good quality players as well since Sandy took over as general manager and the Mets could have built around that core too.
Of course, that is if the Mets had the resources to do it or those resources had to be used for something else.
3 aces and lots of money Joey. They don’t Have to rebuild yet… they may soon but aren’t yet. Trading final year guys and resigning a young ace is not rebuilding.
Hi Tr,
You are right. It’s just that some of us feel the Mets weren’t in that position a few years back either. Nobody will deny they were nothing more than a .500 team (to be fair, injuries didn’t help) but other teams have shown that with a few additions (rather than subtractions) that .500 club the next year can be in the thick of at least the wild card.
Eventually, if they didn’t make moves down the road yes, they would have needed to rebuild but if they were more flexible, maybe not as well. It’s something nobody will ever know.
And Alderson could throw money at Hamilton and Grienke and whoever else and trade all of the top prospects for more big names and the Mets would probably be back in the hunt next year too. But then what? I don’t want to just make the playoffs one or two years and then never go back. I want to go on the type of run that the Phillies went on, at the very least. I want to go into every season thinking my team has as good a chance as anybody at winning it all. That’s what Alderson is building towards, and until he either succeeds or fails at that, making outlandishly positive or negative statements against him is stupid, plain and simple.
So you say you don’t want to do what the Yankees do and go to the playoffs 17 times and win 5 WS…
Instead you want to be like the Phillies and win it once and be done!
Sorry but spending didn’t cost us from being competitive it was spending (and not enough of it) that gave you three meaningfull Septembers to watch and if not for some key injuries in 2009 probably 4!
And in return it was spending very unwisely that lead to teams who did not perform up to their payroll and caused the team to go into financial difficulty. I agree at some point the Mets will need to spend again and spend big. However, I don’t think we are quite there yet.
List all the teams who spent unwisely and caused them to go into financial ruin in the MLB please!
“List all the teams who spent unwisely and caused them to go into financial ruin in the MLB please!”
Hi Metsie,
I don’t even think we can include the Mets in that one since their financial problems stem from things way more than the high payroll. And I’m not thinking in terms of Madoff or any other outside source. Their financial problems as related specifically to the Mets as an operation independent in and of it’s own self, icame from outpricing the Met fan with a smaller capacity ballpark and counting on companies and well-to-do individuals to invest either in season tickets or luxury suites.
So let’s ignore the financial debt the WIlpons find themselves in from outside the operation of the New York Mets itself and ask ourselves this. The Mets projected being able to break even with the payroll they had back in 2009 by drawing an approximate average of 38,200 fans per game based on 2009 ticket prices. Since nobody is willing to spend that much, they are drawing much less even with the price of tickets going down (though artifically raised by the high “processing” charges which all clubs do so they can keep the entire revenue from those fees for themselves whereas a portion of the actual ticket price has to be shared with the visiting team).
So have they painted themselves into a corner since even if they sell-out the joint it would have to be done with much lower revenue coming in due to reduced ticket prices? Wouldn’t that still mean maintaining an operating budget as low as it has become now? It’s not just the payroll – look at all the money they didn’t use to sign more of their draft picks. Last season they lost $70 million alone, according to Sandy Alderson and they are projected to do so again, despite the reduction in payroll and cost cutting measures throughout the organization.
Would it therefore be impossible to break even and field a competitive team at the same time? Unless one believes in fielding a team comprised mostly of players not yet elibible for free agency I do not think so.
So, you’re saying the Yankees didn’t go through a down period to restore their farm and bring up the guys who would anchor those championships?
You think Major League Baseball’s first season was 1996?
Have you ever heard of Gene Michael or Bob Watson?
“Sorry but spending didn’t cost us from being competitive it was spending (and not enough of it) that gave you three meaningfull Septembers to watch and if not for some key injuries in 2009 probably 4!”
So, 5 straight division titles are not good enough but “meaningful Septembers” are?
Yep heard of them they got a grad total of 5 players from thier farm to fill their 25 man roster…Most everyone was else was bought paid for or traded for!
Traded for with what? Magic beans?
Or prospects from their farm?
And you act as if the guys they brought up were fill ins and fringe players.
your the one trying to make the point so the burden of proof is on you to show all the top can’t miss prospects they had to give away not me!
List all the can’t miss top prospects they traded away if thats what you think they did!
Truth is they gave away squat and took on Salary in many cases because they don’t have the same problem with spending you do!
Hi Superhero,
Many of us have been pointing out that too many are thinking in terms of it being either Sandy’s way or Omar’s way or nothing else . We are looking for a middle ground, one with flexibility and the wisdom to know when to spend, when not to spend and on whom. When to dump, when to re-sign, when to count on a minor leaguer to take over a position, etc. When to sign a long-term contract with a star with many prime years projected ahead in lieu of having a year or so left due to age. Of knowing when to trade prospects and not.
And one knowing that one or two off years due to injury does not mean the team needs a total rebuilding but rather a tune-up and that with two key additions and some role fitting others via free agency (therefore not costing us prospects) a team that wasn’t descimated by injury could also go from being .500 one year to a contender the next without sacrificing the future.
OK a couple of things here…
Even if Selig had taken over the team he still would have zero control over the Stadium or SNY!
You folks need to stop linking the two as the same entity merely because one guy owns shares of each of those companies!
Second point, McCort was robbing that team blind for his own personal gain! They were broke because of it!
The Wilpons were not taking money FROM the team they were just having issues trying to pay bills the team didn’t cover! Something an Owner if all is going well is not supposed to do!
and finally there is nothing to show that if Sandy had an owner with deep pockets that he would spend more money than he has!
Even if there was an owner with deep pockets to buy the team it is doubtfull he takes on the salary the dodgers did with our current attendance what it is!
AT best maybe reyes comes back and Beltran gets an offer in hopes of maintaining attendance and maybe they eat Bay’s contract in hopes his replacement on the roster plays well enough to get more to come but thats about it!
Sandy has never spent anywhere he has been!
And it doesn’t matter who owns the team that won’t change!
The only thing that might change if we had an owner who wanted to throw money around is he would go hire a GM who has no issues with spending meaning Sandy your Fired!
I agreed with your first part and much of the rest except for Sandy not spending anywhere. I know ou guys have beat the As horse t death but when allowed there he did spend money. What he does with a team that has plenty of financial resources? Has he had one since the As cut his available funds? We most likely agree that is part of the reason he was brought in, he has dealt with limited budget funds before and he has to here as well.
I’m not going toget into the debate over who ran the A’s but I will point this out to you…
Yes the 89 A’s had a decently high Salary!
The Bash Brothers made some good buck but did Sandy keep them very long afterwards?
NOPE he shipped them out quicker than spit!
Just as many of Sandy’s supporters think Wilpon is setting the Budget and determining who to get why would you not take that “OVERSIGHT” to the next level and realize it’s just as likely that Eisenhardt and Rigney told Sandy hey we want to pay this guy X amount to keep him now go get it done?
Eisenhardt playing rhe role you would like to give to Wilpon now!
What those who think the 1992 Salary was an example of spending have never come to grips with is payroll itself is not an indicator of what they are willing to spend but what the players they had were worth even if they were not Free Agents…
Arbitration is the LEADING cause of high and accelerated payroll not Free Agency!
Can you even name a free agent signing with large payroll addition they made from 1989 to 1992? How many top of the heap free agents did they sign during that time?
You all point to the change in ownership in 1995 as the reason Sandy had to resort to cutting spending and Moneyball but the truth is their payroll had already peaked in 1992 at 41M and was on the way down with two consecutive years of cuts to 37.8M and 34.1M before the owner died and new owners forced Sandy to not spend! And in the end all he really cut was 16M when it comes right down to it!
What was the excuse or reason forcing Sandy to cut payroll those years?
Were they losing money?
What happened in San Diego? Did they spend there? Were those owners broke and losing money too?
My point is simple if you think the Wilpons are to blame for the lack of spending then it’s a bit hypocritical to think ownership at the time he actually spent wasn’t just as involved in what he did!
Truth is maybe they are the reason we are not spending which is why they hired Sandy who has the reputation and resume that says he doesn’t spend!
Just as you would hire a plumber to fix a pipe they hired a bean counter to fix the lack of beans!
So new ownership is only going to help you if they hire someone else to run the team with a better skillset for baseball than he has for beans!
Hi Metsie,
“and finally there is nothing to show that if Sandy had an owner with deep pockets that he would spend more money than he has!”
Needless to say, if the Mets had an owner with deep pocket Sandy would still be working for the Commissioner.
I’m sure had everything else in the Wilpon financial empire remained the same as it was prior to the winter of 2008, they would have found ways to spend more money even with the current drop in revenue from a lack of attendance and falling ticket prices. The Mets are too much of a money maker for Fred, Jeff and Saul from indirect sources outside of attendance and concessions of which they also control.
But I understand your point that despite whatever their other financial worries are, had the Mets been able to break even with the high costs of running the team with the payroll that we had become accustomed to, then we wouldn’t have seen the massive downsizing that has occurred. Guess you can blame it on us Met fans for refusing to take out low-interest loans in order to have enough money to go to a ball game. The Wilpons and Katz did this to themselves by building a smaller ballpark and expecting even more money coming in from smaller crowds than the profits they had already garnered at Shea. They let their grasp exceed their reach.