27
2012
Was Dodgers Deal A Missed Opportunity For Rebuilding Mets?
An article by 
I alluded to it in an earlier post about Scott Hairston, but what are we doing here? What is the plan exactly?
If we are rebuilding then why aren’t we acting like a team that is rebuilding?
It’s obvious that we are not bulking up for a championship run. It’s also obvious we are not a win-now team. So what are we doing?
Can we choose a side and stick to it?
Look at that Dodgers/Red Sox deal…
The Dodgers were so desperate for a huge bat that they were willing to take on the salaries of three overpaid and under-producing players that will be owed a total that is 13 times more than what we owe Jason Bay. And yet Bay is still here…
So is Scott Hairston… So is R.A. Dickey…
You think the Dodgers would have JUMPED at the possibility of Hairston, Bay and Dickey?
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that it would have met their objectives and ours as well.
Who really believes that the Mets are going to give R.A. Dickey the $15 million a year he’ll get on the open market after next season?
Or that Scott Hairston will get $5 million or more from the Mets to be a utility outfielder?
It would have cleared $25 million dollars in total off of our payroll and when you kick in the $15 million Alderson was expecting to get to spend, you now have $40 million dollars to go after four quality players and then some.
How many teams do you know that rebuild around a 38 year old pitcher?
Is it really that important to have R.A. Dickey pitching in meaningless games during the 2013 season, when we’ll most likely be out of the hunt by July once again? Or are you fo the opinion that next season is THE TEAM, THE TIME?
What is the freaking plan?
What the hell are we doing here?
We have four general managers who get paid more than most and I have no idea what the plan is?
Three weeks ago Alderson said he didn’t trade Hairston because he wanted a top 30 prospect so he hung onto him because he couldn’t get something significant. And now with three days left to August he puts him on waivers?
Why???
I’ll tell you why, it’s because he saw what the Red Sox did and is now kicking himself in the ass!
Because he saw them move a bigger albatross in Carl Crawford who is owed $106 million dollars and just had Tommy John surgery, that’s why!
Too little, too late for our overly analytical GM who over-thinks everything to a fault.
He couldn’t find a taker for Bay because the truth is he didn’t even try….
This is the joke of the century…
The Dodgers got someone in Crawford who is owed five times more than Bay, and will have less hits than Bay for the rest of this season!
A Red Sox beat writer couldn’t believe it and later said that the Dodgers will pay Carl Crawford $106 million dollars for being a corpse.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 43 | 30 | .589 | - |
| Nationals | 35 | 36 | .493 | 7.0 |
| Phillies | 35 | 38 | .479 | 8.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 41 | .397 | 13.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 49 | .310 | 20.0 |
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What worries me about this front office is our lack of creativity and the sneaking suspicion that the guy fronting this office has seen the game pass him by. Generally speaking, super analytical people aren’t also very creative people. The Mets have issues, we all know that. However, the Mets players and their fans need someone who’s committed to making this team better.
To be honest, I could care less about saving money for the owners. I don’t buy we’re building a consistent winner because bleeding out contracts isn’t how you re-build a franchise. At some points you have to be able to both let bad contracts run their course and add to your talent pool. This is where creativity comes in. This is where being proactive comes in. Again, no one’s saying make stupid knee-jerk moves or make moves just to make moves. But be creative in adding to your talent pool. Trading assets is a way to do that.
I hate that we still defend whether or not we should’ve traded Reyes. We should have. I refuse to believe letting the market develop for Reyes would’ve yielded nothing. Also, anything received for Reyes would be adding an asset because a properly developed market would’ve yielded talent. In this same light, we should’ve moved Hairston. And here’s the kicker, if we’re really rebuilding, we have to move Dickey and Wright as well to bring in assets.
Creativity and proactivity is what we need. Analyzing is great. But when you only analyze, you can only react. If we’re going to build, we must be in the asset assembling basis. My biggest worry is that this storm that’s rising against Alderson will lead to a really dumb move by him in the coming months – like trading pitching for Josh Willingham because that’ll solve all our problems.
Good Monday morning quarterbacking Joe!
Maybe Hairston demanded a trade? Why should he stick around here if he could play for a winner?
No way I’d move Dickey, he’s really 27 in knuckleball years.
But maybe Murphy, Bay, Hairston? I know you gotta throw in somebody else who is not a rental along with Bay, I just don’t know who. Dickey would have gotten rid of Bays salary and even gotten us some great prospects in the process, but I think it’s a mistake to move him.
Joe,
You are sounding as foolish as Joel Sherman. The Mets intend to keep Dickey as part of the core going forward. No sane person, be it a M et fan or not, would argue with that plan. The Mets determined July 31 that Hairston had more value staying based on the offers received compared to the desire to finish strong with a winning record, playoffs or not. The August collapse has made that a non-issue, so any sane and competent GM would be remiss if he did not guage the market again before August 31.
Dickey has maximum trade value this winter. Cant see the Mets giving him 3 year/$45MM extension to stay. No more compensation picks so trading him is better than nothing, no?
Actually I think the Mets can still get compensation if he leaves as long as they offer a qualifying offer.
The Dodgers the understanding is they took on the contracts they did mainly for Gonzo’s bat. Now if they would of taken on Bay’s contract for Dickey I can’t say but having said that I also don’t believe the idea that they would is like a forgone conclusion. It was a historic trade for a reason cause deals like that just don’t happen all the time.
Agreed, the Dodgers GM was on MLB radio a couple of hours ago and said they target Agonz when the new owners arrived and for reason including his ability but also his race and their demographic. Not sure we have some that fits that.
Why do we think that a player being on waivers and getting claimed means the team is actively looking to dump a player?
Some of the best players in baseball on even contending teams get put n waivers every year only to get claimed and pulled back. If I remember correctly the Mets have done it with Reyes and Wright in the past. It provides flexibility, that’s about it.
There you go blaming the front office for something that they would need permission to do. The Redsox owners okayed this huge deal. The Wilpons are so scared of the word “rebuild” they would never allow a trade that implies we are. Aldersons job is to rebuild without actually saying we are.
The general point of your article is spot on. Mets fans deserve to know what the plan is. But I think your anger is directed at the wrong people.
Also if we wanted them to take Bay, I’m pretty sure Wright would need to go to.
P.S. The David Wright thing will play out exactly like the Reyes thing did. And when Wright does finally sign somewhere else, ownership will say he “chose” to leave. Because signing a 120 mil deal with a good team or taking 85 mill to stay with a failing franchise is really a choice.
You do make a point in the beginning. The Dodgers might have done the dealbut it would have been more like Wright, Bay and Johan and we would have gotten O prospects back because those are all short term contracts.
This is a smart move by the Wilpons though. Let Alderson stand in front of this dreadful team for as long as fans will take it. Then when the venom towards Alderson reaches unsustainable levels, they will fire him and use him as a scape goat. Fans will celebrate, the new G.M. will make his state of the Mets address and vow to change the culture and win a championship. Fans will be excited, they’ll hit the reset button on their patience clock. Then we’ll go through the same thing again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
You want to know the teams plan, thats it.
you honestly think that the Dodgers had any interest in Bay? And I know you can’t possibly be equating him to A gon?
unless in your fantasy deal, Dickey replaces Gonzolez, and bay is the baggage?
But I just can’t buy that Sandy could have swooped in and stole the deal by putting Bay up. If anything, that would require the mets to add more tot he deal!
Dickey, for sure he could have been traded, and yes, that would have been a rebuilding sign, but it also frees up very little money (only ~ 5mill in 2013, for a guy that is going to be in the top 3 of Cy Young voting).
besides, the markey should be much stronger for DIckey in the off season, so trading him now might not even be the best move. Bay is untradeable baggage. Hariston? They kept him in July, because they needed someone to play the OF.
LMAO!
Stick are you being willfully blind?
Bay compared to Agon is not what he pointed out. Bay compared to Crawford is.
Who is the worse burden? Bay or Crawford?
The reason you cant see the logic in things is because you dive in with an agenda.
Crawford and Bay are the albatrosses, Agon and Dickey are the prizes. Hairston and Beckett are side dishes. DUH!!!
I should be happy I’m banned from that shoutbox after seeing the same dumb points being made in there lately.
I still cant believe Stick is comparing Bay to Agon after reading that post. Geez!!!!
well, that had to be it, right, since the Dodgers were desperate for a big bat. And last I checked, Dickey isn’t one.
so right there, the argument makes no sense.
and try reading comprehension sometime. It is a wonderful thing
“you honestly think that the Dodgers had any interest in Bay? And I know you can’t possibly be equating him to A gon?”
Crawford is the worse contract, but bay is easily the worse player.
Wrong again!
It’s a wacky Idea but not because of that, it’s wacky cause to Alderson Dickey is as close to untouchable as you can get.
The Dodgers wanted a power bat and starter. They could have Hairston/Dickey or Gonzalez/Beckett.
H/D costs them $18 million, G/B costs them $105 million.
Use your head for something other than defending Sandy 24/7/365.
We’ll never know now will we, so stop trying to be so defensive.
Joe, Alderson would never trade Dickey even if he could get three Wheelers for him. The reason Alderson is a boob is because he should have traded before August 1st, that’s why he’s a stupid dumb ass. Now the idiot will get even less even if he gets anything at all!
The guy is lost in space and an absolute disaster for a GM!
He is rebuilding nothing!!!!
And he’s not going to bring us no World Series!!!!
He will have a worse record than Minaya when he’s finally gone and the Mets will be no closer to a championship which they at least got to sniff in 2006.
I can’t wait to hear what some of these folk will have to say for themselves when Sandy gets fired!
Maybe they wont even be able to post what with all the egg in their face and eyes! LOL
If Sandy made a deal to trade Wheeler, Harvey, Wright, Dickey Davis, Tejada and Murphy for two prospects they would still somehow find some warped justification for it being the SMART MOVE!
It’s just rediculous!
But it’s us and the guy who runs this website that are the crazy ones for questioning him!
He will have a worse record than Minaya when he’s finally gone and the Mets will be no closer to a championship which they at least got to sniff in 2006″
He already does maniac… not sure where you were going with that Lol…
This is, quite honestly, one of the more ridiculous things I’ve ever heard in some time. Let’s not even consider the question of whether or not it would be wise to move Dickey and simply focus on the deal itself: you honestly believe that the Dodgers would’ve given up what they gave up to the Red Sox for a 38 year old pitcher, a platoon player, and a player who’s hitting below .150 and hasn’t been good since 2009? With the current deal, the Dodgers are getting a great first baseman (the homerun numbers might not be there this year, but otherwise Gonzalez is doing fine), and two players who were quality players at some point in this decade, and who never reached the lows that Bay is currently at.
Just an absolutely absurd article.
Wow, are you all getting your marching orders from Cerrone and TRS? Did you forget the issue of disparity in dollars? If Minaya had done this deal youd all be crawling up his ass with pitchforks and chainsaws.
Yeah, cause clearly the Dodgers are so concerned about money right now…
No, get real. They want the best players, money be damned. And that’s not even the main point. The main point is this: no team is going to give up much of value to get Scott Hairston, and no team is going to give up ANYTHING of value to get Jason Bay
Also, I don’t know what the hell Minaya has to do with any of this.
And Dickey? Does he not have value? Or do you just ignore him to make your rant work?
Of course Dickey has value, nobody ever said otherwise. That doesn’t change the fact that the Dodgers wouldn’t want anything to do with Bay and wouldn’t be willing to give up much for Hairston, if anything at all.
“They want the best players, money be damned”
Which is why they are in a playoff race and the best our FO is shooting for is third place in the division!
If they want the best players, how do you explain Beckett, Crawford and Punto? Or are they just part of the damned money?
I think you’ve officially become a lightning rod like Matt Cerrone. No matter what you write you get it from both sides. Take a bow, you’ve hit the big time!
This
Thanks, but last time I checked the balances in my accounts it didn’t look like I hit the big-time. As far as being a lightning rod, not sure I agree. I think it’s Alderson who is the lightning rod and me and Matt Cerrone have completely different views of him. So he gets bashed for not being critical of him, and I get the same for expressing any criticism of him.
I think the point is you get bashed from the MMO Community no matter what side you take. Something you yourself have acknowledged in the past.
Oh I see. Well in that case, give the man a cigar.
That is not true. One of the reason we love this site is because it has different views on what’s going on with the mets, Joe D is neutral, he sees things as we do. He liked the Hired when sandy was brought in, but he has been critical of him for the sorry ass job he’s done as he should be and that is why he NOW gets bashed and criticized by the slurpers. Do not confused the situation, if the man is doing a bad job why not point it out? Cerrone does that as well as the slurpers, they hide their lord with excuses, and when one criticizes the man then we hate alderson somehow.
This is lunacy.
Alderson put Hairston on waivers, not because of the Red Sox-Dodgers trade, but (1) because everyone gets put on waivers in August and (2) because he thought that one or two of the contenders might be a bit more desperate to add a bat and more willing to put up a good prospect at the end of August than they were at the end of July.
For the Red Sox, the deal was not just about the salary relief. They got one excellent and one very good pitching prospect. “Rebuilding” is not about salary relief alone so you can sign more established players to big contracts. Rebuilding is about acquiring and developing good young talents with high ceilings. If you have solid info that the Mets would be able to get 2-3 such talents for Bay-Hairston-Dickey, I’d be all for it. There’s no sign of it. It’s a fantasy.
One thing you overlook is that Dickey, unlike Beckett or others who were traded, would not get very far before being claimed. That’s because he is a bargain through 2013. Lots of NL teams far down the pecking order would be happy to claim him, but not take Jason Bay in order to do so, much less give the Mets prospects of the quality of de la Rosa and Webster.
I see no lack of a plan. Rebuilding means building a coterie of high-level talent in your minor-league system (not Type C prospects which is what you’d get for Hairston); not spending $$ you don’t have; not boxing yourself in with long-term contracts UNTIL you’re on the verge of being a contender; and, in the Mets’ case, trying to get by with bargains until the horrible contracts are off the books. Unfortunately, it takes time. Alderson/DePodesta et al have only had two amateur drafts, and the fruits even of that will take years to emerge.
I’m as much of a Mets fan as anyone here, and have been incredibly frustrated for years, but I like the approach Alderson is taking, and I’m willing to let it play out for a while longer. I am far more enraged at the Wilpons than at the GM, because their financial missteps have kept the Mets from having adequate resources for far too long.
Man is your first paragraph dead on. Most likely the Mets put about more on waivers and they either made it through or were claimed and pulled back and we don’t even know it.
Alderson put Hairston on waivers, not because of the Red Sox-Dodgers trade, but (1) because everyone gets put on waivers in August and (2) because he thought that one or two of the contenders might be a bit more desperate to add a bat and more willing to put up a good prospect at the end of August than they were at the end of July.
Sorry, but I disagree.
You’re right all players (almost all) get put on waivers, but on August 1st or 2nd, NOT on August 26th
Especially after you answered a volley of questions three weeks earlier as to why he wasn’t placed on waivers.
What’s changed?
That Red Sox/Dodgers deal is what changed.
We’ll agree to disagree.
It is possible that the Redsox trade had something to do with Hairston being more attractive now to other teams. However, it’s just as likely that they basically used him for the worth of “staying competitive” and are now looking to see if a team wants to panic and make a move for him as his usefulness to the Mets this year has passed.
Joe D,
Your insistence on defending a weak position defies basic logic. Since Aug 2, the Mets continued a freefall that gave them no possibility of playing meaningful Sept games, the desired goal on July 31. Alderson’s hope was that they could stabilize and actually beat teams like the Rockies and Astros, a quite reasonable thought process a few weeks ago.
And your insistence that it was wise to wait until the deadline to do something defies the basic logic that says WHY wait until it’s too late!
Add something to help your team sooner and then you can let the deadline pass knowing you already did something to make things better and if it is not enough for this year at least you have one less problem to fix in the offseason so you can focus on the next problem!
I just don’t get why you folks are so interested in waiting for something when everyone knows Idle hands do the DEVILS work!
Another great point, how the hell were they supposed to trade Dickey? The number of teams that wouldn’t claim him would be smaller than those who would.
that is why I said trading Dickey made vastly more sense in the off season, when you actually have competition for his services.
You like the approach Alderson is taking? What approach is that? The Wilpon approach?
Yeah, I like what Alderson is doing. He doesn’t set the payroll. He’s pretty limited in what he can do. I like that he has not given in to the temptation to trade promising prospects. I like that he hasn’t rushed Wheeler. He’s been pretty efficient in putting together a bench — Cedeno, Hairston, Baxter have worked out well. He made excellent use of Beltran in acquiring Wheeler. We don’t know what he could have done with Reyes in a deal because Reyes got injured before the all-star break in 2011. The Wilpons have given Alderson almost no room to maneuver. The best thing he has done is to not do something stupid, like trade away prospects, out of panic.
You like what Sandy is doing?
Now THATS lunacy!
LOL and I love the line the best thing he has done is not do something!
Hmm why is it that everyone thinks if your not doing things the Sandy way your a lunatic?
Are we rebuilding is that what you call what we are doing?
What have we rebuilt?
Who have we acquired to build with? How many players?
We are NOT rebuilding!
We are waiting until the fans gets stupid and pay to see crap baseball which gets them enough money to go a spend on someone.
And the only other thing they are hoping for is that someone is as stupid as the Marlins were when they sent us Piazza!
Sure, just let us know which deals Sandy could and should have made but didn’t.
I will right after you list all the deals he could but shouldn’t have made!
BTW, I also don’t know why signing Dickey for 2014 and beyond would be so unthinkable for the Mets. By 2014 Santana and Bay will be off the books. Hopefully the payroll will expand a bit by then.
I get where you were going Joe and I know some here didn’t.
IF we truly are rebuilding then truly rebuild have a sell off like all the other rebuilders do and hope you get enough kids to rebuild with….
The problem here that most seem to miss is we are not rebuilding the team at all…That is NOT the plan!
They are rebuilding the ledger!
Not the team, Baseball is secondary to money!
Since Dickey is cheap and would cost them in media coverage and attendance they won’t trade him until they can’t resign him in the offseason and then get rid of him and wright at the deadline!
Doubleday/Wilpon bought the Mets and hired Frank Cashen in 1980. It took four years before the Mets stopped stinking. You would have been calling for Frank Cashen’s head after two. It doesn’t happen in two years.
Cashen also spent some money to put fans in the seats while he did it!
I know I was a seaon ticket holder back then!
George Foster anyone?
Uh, are you saying that acquiring George Foster was a *good* thing? Maybe Cashen felt like he had to amuse the fans with bread and circuses while he rebuilt the organization, but to me it would be like trading for Carlos Lee or A. Soriano — a waste of money and time.
Is that all Cashen did though?
Did Cashen do NOTHING when he got here?
Did Cashen not make trades Like Mazilli and for Hernandez?
Your insulting Cashen if you think Sandy is doing as good a job as he did!
Right and at the time the Lee Maz trade was not a popular one because he was a fan favorite at the time. Reminiscent of the Beltran/Wheeler trade, only we know how that trade worked out for the Mets, while people are assuming how the Beltran/Wheeler one will.
Hernandez trade had a lot to do with the Cardinals wanted to get rid of him, Herzog thought Keith was a bad influence and wanted him gone.
Let not rewrite history.
Your right, the Maz trade wasn’t popular just as what JoeD proposed in this thread wouldn’t be popular!
Cashen was truly rebuilding the team! He was SERIOUS about rebuilding the team!
Something I have a hard time believing the fans who support the notion of rebuilding around here are serious about!
It should be noted Cashen traded Maz who is hardly of the caliber of a Beltran and got two Kids for him one a top 10 1st rounder and the other one he traded again for a top 12 First rounder.
Who is that second guy in the Beltran trade?
The only REAL advantage Cashen had that Sandy has not had is Cashen started his tenure with three 1st rounders one of whom was the top overall pick his first year and followed that up with a top ten pick the following two years!
Perhaps what is tripping everyone up here is I don’t hold Cashen in as high a regard as some of you guys do!
I have said for a long time now Cashen had the perfect storm, He inherited a farm system which had not picked below 16th in the 5 years before Cashen got here and inherited those three 1st rounders in his very first draft! Had three additional top 10 First rounders to build with the next 3 years and of those 6 top 10 first rounders he got all of Gooden and Strawberry out of it!
Thats it!
He inherited Brooks, Maz and Backman, Traded two of them for Darling, Hojo and Carter, thats not bad!
But he is also the guy who brought you Juan Samuel, Didn’t raise his voice to stop the best team money could buy despite still being an advisor.
I still don’t know why everyone puts him on such a high pedestal considering all he really has to show for it is a single WS and Playoff Appearance especially knowing just how much ammo and chances he had to really clean up with all those Top 10 First rounders he had!
Yet despite my feelings on his over ratedness he was still a damn site better than Sandy because at least Cashen made moves to make things better and didn’t just sit on his hands waiting for something to happen that made things better!
JoeD is making the point if we are really serious about rebuilding, really serious about needed to take our time and build properly then what he says is true we SHOULD have that fire sale, collect all those top 10 1st rounders that will result from that, and hope to do a better job that Cashen did when he had them!
And those who thought thats what Sandy was doing should be all in favor of that not calling the idea lunacy!
But they are not REALLY serious about rebuilding…Cause nother is Sandy!
They are not interested in that they are interested in Moneyball!
Truth is too late for Sandy to even start a real rebuild, He has a year before the media calls for his head and Wilpon complies to stay out of the line of fire of the bitching!
Foster was not one of his better moves but he did give fans some hope…
Also brought in Kingman which some think was a waste but the point is they were fan draws at the time.
Lets not forget he also brought back Staub then traded Mazilli for Darling and Terrel which eventually got you HoJo.
Cashen did a LOT of stuff in those early years and Sandy in comparison is a damn Glacier!
Didn’t Cashen get Keith in the middle of his 3rd season? I dont get comparing the two unless Sandy has a Strawberry waiting to be drafted? But i really dont get comparing what you know cashen did to what you dont know Sandy will do?
When he got Darling…was Darling any better than Wheeler at that time? Didnt he trade Mike scott and Henderson in his 1st two years?
Was hernandez all I mentioned he did?
Or is that the only name you had an answer for?
And I will point out it was your side of this argument who made the comparison between the two not me!
I am glad to see that another Met Fan has the good sense to understand just how bad the situation was when Sandy A was hired. The only difference with that Frank Cashen inherited a team that could easily spend money to restore itself. Cashen waited almost a year to do anything significant but he knew that he needed good pitching. Say goodbye to our glamor boy Lee Mazzilli and hello to Ron Darling and Walt Terrell. Cashen drafted Gooden, traded for Bobby Ojeda and later for David Cone.
The answer is starting pitching which still makes up 70 % of this game
Sandy A is banking on the young arms he has in the system. He made the right call in trading Carlos Beltran for Wheeler and for not resigning Jose Reyes who represented a huge gamble because of his injury history!
And yes, it takes more than 2 years to refloat a sinking ship. Ours was practically sunk!
Yet casshen didn’t really spend a pennyto restore the team.
The pennies he spent were much the dsame as what Omar spent (which has been knocked adinfinitum) to try and maintain some attendance to buy him the time to do what needed to be done!
Sandy has NOT done this and while you can try and blame the WIlpons for that the truth of the matter is he has only made the finances worse not better!
Attendance has gone down every year he has been here!
Thats not helping the spending it is only making it worse!
And what he HAS decided to spend on has been a total failure!
So, you’d be OK with trading Wright just to get rid of Bay? That is what you call a step forward?
By the way, the Dodgers are a house of cards. We shouldn’t be looking to them as an example. They look the same as the Marlins from last winter.
Agreed. One thing to keep in mind as well is that the Redsox unloaded long term contracts. Thankfully at this point Johan and Bay are no longer long term deals. Trading a star in order to dump their contracts makes no sense whatsoever. All that does is lessen the prospects you would obtain. It isn’t like the Mets would go out and then spend 40M in FA once they traded Bay and Johan and even if they did they would then need to not only fix their current holes but a new one in Wright as well. If you going to trade Wright or Dickey, considering the fact that Bay and Johan are gone at the end of 2013 wouldn’t you be better off trading them by themselves to maximize their value instead of saving money for one year?
Keep in mind also that Dickey nor Wright would have ever gotten through waivers because their contracts are also market value and short-term. Wo
Would you call what the Red Sox did a step forward?
Again, contract length is at the heart of the Redsox trade which is something the Mets no longer have to worry about in Bay and Johan. So yes it is a step forward forward for the Sox, however trading Wright or Dickey to rid themselves of one year of Bay or Johan would be a step backwards for the Mets. Considering they could just eat the cash of either of those two for next year and trade the player separately to maximize incoming talent.
By itself, perhaps. But, given what we have seen coming out of Boston the last 18 moths or so, I’d say they are desperately clawing to “do something”. This is still a franchise with very public power struggles happening at the top levels. If John Henry is back to actually be the owner and restore order, this could be a step in the right direction.
If he’s still playing with his new toy in Liverpool (and the EPL just started up again so that may be the case) then this was probably just another move in the pissing contest between Lucchino, Cherington and whoever else is calling shots.
All they really did was get rid of high priced malcontents who get paid big money and enough that they should shut up and perform but did neither!
What some should be asking is if they could get rid of Crawfords contract then why hasn’t Sandy been able to find someone to dump Bay on whose contract is far less toxic than anyone the RedSox traded!
Hell Sandy should at least be able to trade him for a cup of coffee!
Hell Sandy should at least be able to trade him for a cup of coffee!”
From what we’ve seen in his negotiations tactics, i’m sure SA would just get the cup empty without the coffee.. that’s how bad the man has been as a “GM”
Not even a coffee no milk or sugar? LOL
He would probably have to throw in Flores to get the Milk and Sugar! LOL
So, the fact that they use the media to attack their players is of no consequence? The managerial situation is of no consequence? The lack of defined leadership is of no consequence?
The fact that the team won 90 games last year but the FO still wigged out is of no consequence?
Hey, they got rid of some malcontents…and a perennial MVP candidate.
Nope! No Consequence!
I pay you millions to play baseball you shut up and play baseball!
They won 90 games last year but won nothing in the end.
They did what many of you thought should have been done after the chokes of 2007 and 2008!
PURGE!
You don’t know what I thought after 2007 and 2008. And what “everyone wanted” is inconsequential.
Its not rebuilding if the same biggest problem is still there. If the bosses are still playing the same crappy games that made the situation 100x worse, all they are doing now is shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Could this help them out in the long run? Yes.
But this is not the be all and end all of their problems.
That’s actually a good question. Why wasn’t Bay traded earlier. Using the current example the Mets would have had to trade a star to get rid of Bay’s contract earlier in the process. Evidently the Mets determined they would rather ride out the contract instead of sacrificing a star just to rid themselves of the contract and then need in turn to go out and spend the money saved to go out and replace that star.
Why didn’t they throw him into the Beltran deal?
I would say it is step 1 in a 2 step forward plan.
step 2 is finding a replacement for the 1 guy they lost that hurt, and they have a ton of money to do it with! No clue if there is anyone that will hit FA that makes sense, but yes, in the near term, it is a big step forward.
Finding a replacement 1B is really not all that hard….
Take any power hitter (preferably lefthanded glove) who isn’t awful with the glove and within a year you have replaced your 1B!
Remember Duda and Murphy were turned into 1Bs.
You are actually comparing Andrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford to Jason Bay and Scott Hairston, Not sure baseball is what you should be writing about
Vincent and others,
The Alderson defense has become so acrimonious that it’s like a fight to the death.
I’m tossing out the idea that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE the Dodgers may have thought Dickey, Hairston and Bay at a total cost of $25 million dollars and no longterm contracts, might be better than Gonzalez, Beckett and Crawford at a cost of $250 million in long term contracts.
Why is that so difficult to understand?
Take the blinders off please because now even blogging about what-if scenarios has apparently become taboo.
Joe, can you answer how might the Mets been able to trade Dickey to the Dodgers in August?
What about in July? Why did he sit on his hands? If we are rebuilding then lets act like we are. My gripe isn’t with what we are doing, it’s with the fact we have no direction and no real plan.
Now answer me a question. what makes you think there are no other teams that would have taken on the Bay contract if it meant fulfilling their needs with other players? Players like Daniel Murphy or Ike Davis or R.A. Dickey or Bobby Parnell.
Wouldn’t it be great to have that extra $18 million in flexibility? Cutting Bay doesn’t give you flexibility and that’s why Alderson has emphatically said he wont be cut. And he won’t be cut as I’ve said here before he will be here on Opening Day.
But where is the creativity? Or the plan?
Joe D, because he also stated how he needed fannys in the seat, they cannot afford to rid of players like it’s san diego or oakland where he got away with it because of the market nor fans cared about it, but here everything is under a microscope, and you can tell he’s getting more irritated because he’s been challenged by reporters and hosts to answer questions he never had to deal with in Oakland nor SD, this is not one of those markets, yet we are acting as if we were and he’s the one in charge. The wilpons are paying him to take the heat, and he has.
Yes Alex he stated it but he has not made any progress in that goal and won’t until he gets some NEW blood that excites the fan base.
If he did as Joe proposed your correct Attendance would plummet but it would go as low as it ever will which means you know how much you have to cut salary to get even without risk of losing more money, and then as you find some kids to generate some interest you might take the risk to signing a good player knowing only his total salary is a potential loss leader and not going to bankrupt you!
Its similar to the theory you have to hit rock bottom before you can turn it around!
If the financials are really the issue then trade or cut anyone who gets paid too much, get to the lowest revenue intake and figure out what break even is, Then build from there!
I personally don’t think it’s a good idea but if the folks who like Sandy are serious about what they say they believe they should all be jumping for joy to do that!
As we have seen in this thread they aren’t really serious either about rebuilding or getting the finances in order!
Thats just a smoke screen to hide the thing the REALLY like about Sandy…
He’s playing MONEYBALL!
I think you are right in the fact that Hairston wasn’t just dumped in July because they wanted to stay competitive, which does have to do with attendance. However, what has changed is the Mets tanked and now maybe a team is desperate enough to trade a PTBNL for Hairston. With the Mets most likely playing more of the kids in September Hairston is no longer necessary IF they can get a return. However, most likely the claiming team doesn’t even want him. Thus again, another reason why trading Hairston or any other player after the deadline has it’s own difficulties.
I think Alderson said he would have traded Hairston in July if they obtained a piece that would help them in the immediate future, not just a warm body
I think you are right in the fact that Hairston wasn’t just dumped in July because they wanted to stay competitive, which does have to do with attendance. However, what has changed is the Mets tanked and now maybe a team is desperate enough to trade a PTBNL for Hairston. With the Mets most likely playing more of the kids in September Hairston is no longer necessary IF they can get a return. However, most likely the claiming team doesn’t even want him. Thus again, another reason why trading Hairston or any other player after the deadline has it’s own difficulties.
I think Alderson said he would have traded Hairston in July if they obtained a piece that would help them in the immediate future, not just a warm body.
Simple pick up the phone and call them!
Then make a deal!
I love how you always ask questions that have 1000 answers that are correct hoping the answer you get has some way you can say IMPOSSIBLE!
When you really know ANYTHING is possible if you only TRY!
Here is a question for you TRS….
Please name the deals and signings made since Sandy got here that ARE towards rebuilding which you claim we are doing….
I’ll start you off here…
1 – Wheeler
2 – ????
That should hold us for awhile Joe, Whenever you ask that question to a guy who says we are rebuilding they go silent and watch TV instead of replying!
Getting rid of Perez. One.
And what does that do for rebuilding for the future?
Hmm? Did that get us a decent htting OFer? A catcher? A kid in the Minor?
How did that make us a winner in the future?
Did we spend him money on something good? What?
“The Alderson defense has become so acrimonious ”
So glad to see you recognize this Joe!
I am so tired of people calling us crazy for not drinking the Koolaid!
Now the lost it and started calling YOU crazy!
You consistently imagine trades and possible deals like you know more than you do.