27
2012
MMO Roundtable: Has This Team Quit On Terry Collins?
An article by 
Has this team quit on Terry Collins? Should he keep his job after the season? That was the question I posed to our mighty staff this morning as we consider Terry Collins’ performance this season, the recent collapse, and his future moving forward.
Clare Lafferty – I think that the team is just like the fans – frustrated at the level of play since the All Star break. Terry Collins has done a fine job with this team and he should be back next year. Yes, we are stumbling right now, but TC kept this team playing over their heads the first half of the season. As much as we love our team, we certainly don’t have the talent that other front running teams have. Collins is trying to get the best from what he has.
Rob Silverman – I dont think the team has quit on Terry Collins as much as they’ve quit on themselves. And the fans, too. That being said, I personally feel Collins has done a very good job considering the hand he’s been dealt the last 2 seasons. 2011 was spent with Jose Reyes staring at the calendar waiting for a contract offer that never really came. Now, we are facing the same situation this year with Wright and Dickey. It’s impossible to manage a team when players are waiting eagerly to get out of town and get to a winner. Since the Mets are “rebuilding” then we owe it to Collins to stay on board until we are ready to put a competitive team on the field.
Mike Barrett – Yes it has to some degree and no it hasn’t. I think it has quit on the basic fundamentals of baseball, which is something Terry has always promised his team would do. I believe Terry will be back because he deserves a chance to manage a team that has actual major league talent on the roster. One thing that could sway that decision is what happens to Mike Scioscia after this year. If he is let go by the Angels, he could be an interesting and very good choice for manager if the Mets are looking for a change.
Dan Valis – Yes he should keep his job. The team has not quit, they simply aren’t that good. They played over their heads in the first half. This is what they were all along. It was just masked by the ridiculous performances of Wright, Dickey and the hot starts by Santana and Nieuwenhuis. Not to mention all the two outs hits we had. There was no way that could continue either.
Joe Spector – It sure looks like that. Of course everyone wants to blame somebody and there’s plenty of blame to go around but the bottom line, the players who played well early in the seaon simply fell apart after the All-Star break. The players need to look at themselves in the mirror before they want to lay blame at coaches or management.
Jessep – Here’s one thing that irks me to no end. The idea that the team quit “because” the front office quit on them. Here’s why that irks me. If you say that or believe it – then you’re telling me that the Mets themselves didn’t believe they were good enough to compete in 2012. If that’s the case then it’s more of an indictment on the roster than anybody else. If you’re telling me they did so poorly because the Mets didn’t get 1 new player, then all you’re telling me is the roster had less belief in themselves than any of us. The problem with whether they quit on him is they are showing us what everybody thought they were. You got a AAA catcher, and a AAA outfield. Now you have a guy in Murphy who is “tired,” which to me says “I’m still not ready to be an everyday player.” You have so many holes that in the course of a 162 game season – the cream rises to the top. They didn’t quit – they just were never good enough for the long haul. This idea that if the Mets went out and got let’s say Jon Broxton that everything would be okay is laughable. They needed more than 1 new player. Remember before the all-star break I said we will find out if the 2012 Mets are the 2011 Pirates or the 2011 Diamondbacks. Both unexpected over-achieving 1st half teams. We now have our answer. 2011 Pirates who won 72 games.
Satish Ram – The team has quit, but not necessarily on Collins. I think they just feel betrayed – their hearts have been ripped out. Collins is not the manager of the future, but he is the manager of the supposed transition period. I think he deserves to stay another year considering, as I’ve beaten to death, I don’t think we’re going to contend next year.
Rob Patterson – I’m not sure the team has quit so much as they’ve run out of gas. Collins had the roster playing at a high level for so long, and that had to take something out of the tank for later in the year. How they finish will determine Collins’ fate. If they show fight, he’s safe, but if they fade by way of terrible fundamentals and a lack of hustle, Terry may not make his third season as Mets manager.
Nick Campione – The team has not quit on Terry but I believe some players have become very lazy especially Andres Torres and Jordany Valdespin. It seems with some players when they get into trouble and are struggling, they seem to give up. Those are the players I would make sure arent on my team in 2013. I do believe though with the young players we have here, Terry is the best manager for them. Dan Warthen and maybe even Dave Hudgens should be fired though.
Joe D. – Apparently, a source told the NY Post that Terry Collins’ job is safe for 2013. In the history of New York sports that has always translated into a preamble to an imminent firing at the end of the season and not really the vote of confidence it would appear to be. Especially when it is tied to the message of “Don’t finish in last place, or else.” If you took the play of the Mets, Phillies and Marlins in August as a Litmus test for how the final standings will shake out, the Mets will indeed finish in last place and the front office knows that. They basically challenged Collins to a duel but when they handed out the pistols the forgot to put any bullets in Terry’s revolver. Some may say he’ll be a scapegoat, but I view Terry more as the sacrificial lamb. He will pay the price for the sins of the front office. Who know’s, Collins could ultimately become the replacement for Davey Johnson who wants to settle into a front office job with the Nationals. Now won’t that be fun?
Have something you want to add? Feel free to jump on in, the water’s fine…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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Similarly to last year, I think the team quit when the front office quit on us.
The players didn’t quit on Collins…they quit on themselves and the fans
Mitch — Touché.
Wow what a surprise that Jessup gets irked at somone holding the Front Office accountable for anything!
We think the Team gave up on Terry?
I think Terry gave up on the FO at the same time his team did!
If not he would have had one of his tantrums like he had last september but has not!
What would be the point as the team would just say back that management gave up on them.
When you are trying hard and doing your best and your boss goes and say “Thats not good enough to try an help you” what is going to be the natural reaction?
Well if trying hard doesn’t get you some recognition and your boss gives up on you anyway why bother?
Many here think they were playing above thier heads, well if thats true then you should reward that effort by going after someone that did not require them to put out that extra effort which appears to have led to many guys being gassed in the second half because such focus is impossible to sustain for an entire season!
If your boss is not going to bother to make things better and just collect his 2012 check why wouldn’t the guys under them take the same stance and collect thiers while waiting for next year the way thier Boss has?
Did the players give up? Or did they have to work so hard to stay above .500 early on in the hopes that they would convince thier boss they were worth helping only to have that effort ignored and called not good enough totally pulling the rug out of thier enthusiasm!
And I think Terry knows this is the problem because he has deemed this year a tantrum is not going to work!
I believe there is a split forming in this organization between those who wear uniforms and those who wear suits!
Both Dickey and Wright have said the chances of winning something in the future are an issue to thier signing as much if not more than the money is.
That tells you that these guys don’t think the FO is trying to make this team better now or in the immediate future.
And if they are no going to try what motivation do the players and managers have?
Thier Jobs?
If you don’t think you have a chance to win and don’t think anything will be done to change that then it’s a job they probably don’t want, at least not with this organization.
Sandy took away any enthuisiasm and incentive they had to rise to the occassion when he waved the white flag in July for th second year in a row!
And this time he lost Terry as well!
They will get rid of Collins if only to deflect the focus from their own shortcomings and make it look like they are turning the page on the last two miserable seasons.
I think the losing has affected them possibly in trying too hard. I think some focus has definitely been lost at times and that falls squarely on Collins. I don’t think that an entire team got together just after the All Star break and said, “The FO didn’t get us any help so we must not be good enough so let’s just not try and just quit.” I think a bit higher of the players than to believe that.
As far as Collins my opinion is he was the right man at the time for the job now can he be the right man to manage this team to the playoffs in the future I don’t know? I still believe that as long as Backman is in the Mets system or for that matter Teufel they are next in line to replace Collins.
I think Terry was a good choice for a few year stint, to help with the clearing out of the roster, getting younger, rebuilding the core, etc. stage. But I really don’t want to see him here for the next stage, of helping to mold a young team into a LT winning machine! That should be turned over to a younger guy with more managing “smarts”, and a longer horizon. Like when Davy came in.
I’m not sure if the term “quit” best describes the team’s general malaise. It appears moreso a loss of the level of collective focus that they demonstrated in the first half of the season, which is a necessary component to this particular team’s success.
Also, their opponents probably adjusted to the Met hitters propensity to prolong at-bats and attacked the strike zone earlier in the count, forcing one adverse count after another. The best 2-strike hitters are Tejada, Murphy & Turner. The first two appeared to be burning out and the third simply wasn’t playing enough, IMO.
The starting pitching, on the other hand, has held up for the most part. The bullpen… predictably bad.
It’s really not TC’s fault – give him the horses & he’ll produce a winning atmosphere. When you load a roster with bench players and unpolished minor league talent, at some point the team will capsize. It’s a credit to Terry Collins that it didn’t happen sooner.
This one is NOT on Terry Collins. It appears to be more an Owner/GM shortcoming, with an emphasis on ownership for not providing the resources to keep the team competitive while it rebuilds on the fly.
THIS!
THe FO did not “quit” on the team. If they had traded anyone adding value, that would have been giving up. They if anything said “you got us here, you get to finish it out”.
so, if they were that mentally weak that not adding a couple different spare parts would lead them to fold up and go home, the team had no chance in hell of competing anyway.
losing some more important guys (Gee, Franky, tejada) ) to injury, and having a few guys cool off after super hard first halves, is more along the lines of talent finding it’s level. They hit a slump/bad patch, but you can’t say it was because they “quit”. Since if you believe that, you can say that the team, as constructed, is plenty talented enough to be playing for a WC spot right now (if they did not “quit”).
and also hard to believe that the players just said F this, and stopped trying. Even guys on bad teams still try. They are playing for themselves (first, foremost, and always). Their next contract, keeping a job in the majors, pride, whatever. And putting up a suckarse 1/2 of a season because you felt like mailing it in ain’t gonna do anything for your future!
WellStick if this team wasn’t good enough then who is to blame for putting such a poor inadequate team on the field?
Terry?
Or someone else that seemingly is the only one in the organization that is IMMUNE to this concept of accoutability?
you must have really messy hair, from all the points that just fly right over your head.
Would rather have messy hair than be blind and deaf to the things going on around me!
So when is the FO accountable here?
The day after they get fired?
The whole team quit on TC, or they quit because the FO quit on them is ridicules.
We are talking about gown men that, no matter what team they play on, own their reputation, that is theirs no one else’s.
To quit because the FO didn’t acquire some player shows a lot about their own personal character if that was true and not a group of players I’d ever want to get behind.
To quit on a manager, well same thing, shows lack of personal respectability
I think, because they are failing miserably, as fans, it’s easy to come up with excuses as such to maybe make ourselves feel better.
Bobby Ojeda and Keith Hernandez were the ones who mentioned it over the weekend. And Ojeda went as far as saying it feels like when the team quit on Jerry Manuel. And if you don’t think a manager can’t lose control of his team, than you just haven’t been watching baseball long enough. It happens all the time and is the reason most managers get fired.
Everyone Quit…The Team, the manager and the GM!
If you think the team just sucks well can you blame them for sucking?
Or do you blame the guy who relied on sucky players to be competitive for a whole season?
Remember Sandy was changing the culture and the culture right now appears to be QUIT!
But god forbid we hold a GM to be accountable for anything around here!
Oh the dramatics “God forbid……………..”
Take a breath there Metsie, and FYI Seligman, been watching for well over 40 years now, didn’t know submitting a resume was a requirement, or is that the standard question when someone posts a different viewpoint.
Sure it has happened, seen it many times, players quit on their team, the team quits on their manager, the team quits on their organization, but the bottom line if they are they are quitting on the fans foremost. It’s very easy to say the team quit when things go badly too, and IMO it’s just a quick go to justifying horrific play. Although deeming a team has quit is subjective, no way of proving it.
Consequently, anyone that ever does quit is just a loser IMO. It shouldn’t matter what players the FO supplies you with, you’re playing with your own reputation, end of story. I own my reputation, and if I perform any less then my capability at my job, in spite of what my work environment, then it’s on ME, and no one else. Not sure about you, but I don’t play the blame game if I don’t perform 100%, and it should be held over in anything anyone does, including Sports. Justifying a team quitting is just as bad as well.
And I ask again…Who was the one who thought he could go a full season with these losers again?
When does Sandy have to be accountable?
I see you have players and Managers accountable what does it take to make the GM accountable for what you percieve is bad?
The word “QUIT” is much too harsh a word to use in our politically correct, self-esteem world. When I was in the unemployment insurance field we preferred the term “Voluntary Separation.” Doesn’t it sound nicer to say “The NY Met players have voluntarily separated from the avocation of particpating in the sport of professional baseball.” Kind of has a nice ring to it, wouldn’t you say?
I like it Lou lol
LOL Lou!
Did the team quit on Terry? It looks that way but that’s not Terry’s fault. The players read the same stuff we read, they saw the comments by Alderson who said why he should he be a buyer when this team is performing poorly. They hear the same things we do. Heck half of them take to Twitter to tell us how they feel. How many times has Byrdak, Dickey and Rauch poured their hearts out on Twitter this season? Dickey was the first to say trading Beltran cut our hearts up last season. And this year he said it’s obvious the front office have their own ideas and the players have their own goals and the two don’t match. They needed and wanted help, and they didn’t get it. So get rid of all these players and rebuild. Starting with Wright and Dickey who set the tone for this team and are now playing for their own big contracts and not because they believe this team is in it to win it. Just like Reyes, it’s clearly about the contract with these two and they also want to play for a team that will win a World Series. Their goals are different than the front office so lets move Murphy to 3B, Spin to 2B and build with a new core. At this point get rid of Bay and if there’s anyone out there who would take Johan off our hands, do it. I’m sick of looking at these sad sacks and under-performers. We got some new kids in Harvey, McHugh, Tejada, Ike, etc. There’s enough there to build around. So lets cut the pretense and call this what it is – a rebuild. You dont build around a 30 year old Wright or 38 year old Dickey. Move on already.
was with you right up until you said trade them all….
It assumes Sandy was right and the players were wrong.
They were right but have since resigned themselves to the fact no one cares about what they want to do because the FO is not as interested in winning something as they are and they sure can’t fight city hall!
And i would be very surprised now if RA Dickey came back to the Mets. Since he’s the one that’s the most vocal publicly about this FO quitting on this team two times in two years and doing absolutely NOTHING while other teams are getting Victorinos, Sheets, etc for hardly anything and moving bad contracts to improve themselves. Red Sox can move bad contract but Sandy the Saviour can’t.
RA knows it. He will either go for the most money even if offered from someone else OR go to another team that wants to win and tells it’s players they want to win. I would say a less than 20% chance Dickey comes back – UNLESS – this FO miraculously shows that they can be creative and make trades and somehow make an impactful, smart signing – something they’ve yet to do in 2 years.
3 General Managers – Alderson, Depodesta, & Ricciardi.
And this Mets team is what it is after 2 years – with 3 General Managers.
Amazing.
I think it’s going to come down to what happens with Wright as far as Dickey is concerned.
And Wright may come down to who they go get in the offseason.
Both will refuse to negotiate during the season so if there is nothing to convince them before the season starts it will take a mid season trade to convince them in the short time of exclusivity at the end of the year!
If they hammer out a deal for Wright in the offseason then I expect Dickey will get extended as well cause theywill feed them a line of bull that they been feeding us that they might be buyers later on and once they sign they arestuck even if the FO never makes good on that promise.
So playing over their heads and then coming hard back down to earth means they quit?
Also, the team started tanking BEFORE the deadline, this crap about well the FO won’t help us so I will just stink can’t hold water if they started stinking beforehand. Perhaps all the speculation about someone being traded from the main roster caused the team to play tight and lose? Just as likely, which is almost 0.
How do you know they were playing over their heads and not simply playing motivated? Did you get that from the players or is that just your opinion? So you think sometime in late July they flipped their switch and said lets not play over our heads anymore? Ok.
You know as well as anyone that the law of averages usually catches up, well that along with injuries to key positions that would have been difficult to fill externally.
But that being said, where did you predict they would finish this year? I think most had them about where they are or below. What did you or I or they base that on?
All I saw was a team that lost 2 productive pitchers from their rotation in Santana and Gee, and lost their closer who seemed to have turned it around at the time. How would the Nationals look if they lost Gio Gonzalez, Tyler Clippard and Stephen Strasburg? You think they would be playing at the same level? You think their GM would have done nothing to resolve one of those problems? Doubt it. Stop making your opinions out to be fact when it’s just your own speculation. Aren’t you the one who always want’s evidence? Law of averages? Pretty weak especially when you ignore key injuries. That’s not law of averages, that’s simply the net result of losing three key players and doing nothing about it. Law of averages is based on all things being equal everything averages out. All things were not equal.
The “Playing over thier Heads” is just another attempt to perpetuate the Sandy was left SQUAT Myth that they seemingly now wish to use to explain away the two years of team decline!
So the offense was also affected by losing those 3 pitchers?
Yep especially when one of those pitchers constitutes 50% of your All Star Veteran Leadership of the team!
Basically this team was lead by Wright and Santana…
And when they lost Santana that was a big blow! Whats worse is they lost his performance even before they lost him!
And funny when ALL the pressure was thrust on Wright thats when he started slumping and striking out because he was trying to do too much again trying to make up for the loss.
Yup, the Mets should have traded for a guy to replace Johan’s leadership… who the heck would that have been?
Anyone would be more than the guy we got now wouldn’t it?
Harvey? I don’t know. Would it have been?
We didn’t get Harvey did we?
Not until after the GM already waved the white flag!
We got Hefner and Batista instead!
And Harvey is what you call Veteran Leadership?
And You wonder why we have these 1000 post comments on stupidity that never end well?
Who would you have traded for to replace Johan’s veteran leadership that could rejuvenate the players and get them to the playoffs?
How about AGon?
So you wanted the Mets to get Agonz to replace Johan. Ok.
Ahhh I forget about your ADD and focus issues…..
We were talking about Vet ledaership or did you forget that?
I repeat,you wanted the Mets to get Agonz somehow to replace Johan… I got it.
Somehow? So he couldn’t replacthe vet leadership of Santana is that what your trying to say?
Or do you think I intended to put Agon on the mound?
Really!
You asked for a name knowing full well thats what you do when you ran out of points so I gave you one….
And this is the response I get back? Somehow?
Somehow they were supposed to get Agonz, not sure how, and he would replace Johan. I already said i got it.
Dodgers got him didn’t they?
Yup. Let’s see we should have traded Ike, and 2 good prospects in return for Agonz, Crawford and Beckett in late August to replace Johan. I already said I got it. No need to clarify any more. Perfectly clear where you are coming from.
No you don’t really get it as evidenced by your feeble attempt to put words in my mouth because you asked a question you THOUGHT I could not answer but did and was forced to try and charachterized the answer as a rediculous one because thats all you had left!
I never mentioned Ike and Two prospects at all!
YOU did!
And we wouldn’t have needed that much because we didn’t need Crawford or Beckett and the price you mentioned was for all three!
But you go right on trying to change what I said to sound crazy!
Truth is you asked for someone who could replace the Vet leadership hoping I had no answer so you could add another 50 Comments begging for an answer and I stopped you by giving you one right away you had no reply to and decided to change mine instead!
Metsie, I already got it. No need to clarify your answer. You wanted us to trade for Agonz to replace Johan and that would have helped the energy of the team and we wouldn’t be where we are now. I got it.
THIS!
What is more likly is they played ALL OUT collectively and if the FO had added a little so that they didnt’t need to go all out just to stay above .500 then maybe they would still have the energy to play above .500 now without an all out effort!
Alderson opted for Batista. Harvey was his last resort – thanks Omar.
http://www.kranepoolsociety.com/2012/08/26/maybe-a-showtune-would-help-the-mets/
A song and a dance from Dam Yankees my help . Met fans can relate to that.
Hahaha, nice.