24
2012
MMO Roundtable: Are The Mets Moving In The Right Direction
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The Mets have lost 14 of their last 16 games at home, and are 12 and 30 in their last 42 games.
They are now officially worse than the 2009 team. Do you still think we are moving in the right direction?
Joe Spector – It’s amazing what a difference a month makes in this game. Do we allow this to effect our overall view of where the team is going or not? Is the organization putting far too much value into their minor leaguers? Should some be dealt? Something HAS to be done and Alderson has admitted to it. Better late than never and for all those who feel Omar left this team teeming with minor league talent, glad to see you’ve all awakened.
Mike Barrett – No, since I have no idea what direction they are going. If ownership refuses to spend money on talent that is or isn’t on this team, there is no reason to think that this team will get any better any time soon.
Dan Valis – Right now I still say right direction because we have pitching coming. Harvey has started out well, and Wheeler is “supposed” to be better than him. Niese looks like a really solid number 3 starter and we have Dickey. Pitching wins and if we can plug in a rotation of Dickey, Niese, Harvey, Wheeler and someone else, we have something there. Adding offense to Wright, Davis and Tejada will be the key, as well as getting a legitimate closer.
Jessep – I think we are moving in the right direction if Alderson’s WFAN interview turns out to be true. If this roster is different in 2013 but they continue to focus on the development of their young players then yes. All this stretch of games proves to me is that the people who said the cupboard was not as stocked as people thought in May were right and this team desperately needs some changes.
Satish Ram – I’ll consider giving them another off-season to sort things out. But I do not feel like we have much direction at all right now. Picture a jagged road that goes back and forth in an unpredictable pattern that makes it difficult to understand the reasoning or to trust that the pathway will lead to a safe place.
Robert Patterson – I think we’ve learned what experiments have merit. For instance, the middle infield of Tejada and Murphy appears to have staying power, whereas the Lucas Duda outfield experiment has failed miserably. I’m okay with taking the time to evaluate his resources, but now that we know what additions have to be made, it’s time for Alderson to make it happen.
Nick Campione – I believe we are moving in right direction in minors but not in majors. Some trades need to be made and I wish some money could be spent but I do not believe the Wilpons will allow Sandy to do so. After listening to Sandy Alderson on WFAN, I liked everything he said although he didnt seem so sure he would have money. Its time to make the right trades and right moves and get away from the bargain bin. This team needs to be changed and changed immediately.
XtreemIcon – Yes. I know it’s tough not to burn the place down after under two calendar years, but even Met-hater Francesa said on the FAN on Thursday that it’s not reasonably fair to judge Alderson yet. This offseason and next (verbatim: “the next 18 months”) will tell us about the job he’s doing. The farm is better than it has been in a few years, even with graduating some guys to the majors, and alabtross contracts are coming off the books. When you start re-organizing from the ground up, that’s the first two steps.
Joe D. – I was cautiously optimistic two years ago, skeptical after last offseason, and clearly unconvinced we have made any strides now. David Wright said it best, the last two years under Alderson have been a “baby step”. Wright’s a smart guy who never criticizes the team and for him to say that, you can imagine the chatter in the clubhouse. We were painted a beautiful Thomas Kinkade outlook complete with bright lights when Alderson first addressed the fans as a GM. We were to expect results in 2014 – championship caliber results. Last offseason he spent all of his money on moves overbidding or bidding against himself for relievers that were widely responsible for the Mets problems this season, and his one trade actually did more harm than good. He said he wouldn’t punt in 2012 and that he would have money to spend mid-season, but only signed 20 of his 42 draft picks which completely undermined his “building from within” mission statement. Worst of which was letting $60K be the deal breaker in the epic failure not to sign the Mets second round pick. This contradicts everything he said and he left the draft with $1.2 million in unspent dollars of which only $300K carries over to next year. At the deadline he waited until the last minute, and the Mets collapsed right on cue and he sat on his hands. It would be naive to think he would have made any moves to bolster the team if the Mets were still 8 games over .500 on July 31. When the Mets were riding high he already sent signals that things were “too pricey”. We are moving in a direction alright, but it doesn’t seem like the right direction to me.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 23 | 18 | .561 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 19 | .548 | 0.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.0 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 6.5 |
| Marlins | 11 | 31 | .262 | 12.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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This comment is for Joe Spector who said: Better late than never and for all those who feel Omar left this team teeming with minor league talent, glad to see you’ve all awakened.
The only bright spots of the 2012 season has been Ruben Tejada, David Wright, Josh Edgin, Matt Harvey, Jon Niese, R.A. Dickey and most recently Collin McHugh and Jeremy Hefner. I don’t know why you would take a swipe at the minor leagues. Is it Omar’s fault that Alderson’s lack of depth forced him to rush all the minor leaguers up here Valdespin and Nieuwenhuis? He went into the season with Andres Torres who was about to get cut by the Giants as our one and only centerfielder. His answer to replace Beltran, a near MVP this season, was to supplant Duda from first base and put him in left field where he failed miserably. You seem to want to pin all the blame on the last administration that was now over two years ago.
LA Mets Fan: With respect Valdespin and Kirk were not rushed to the big leagues.
They are both 24 years old. Valdespin has over 400 minor league games under his belt and Kirk has just under 400. They’ve been in the system since 07 and 08 and frankly calling them up to see what they had was a no brainer considering the circumstances.
LA
If you’ve been a reader of MMO for some time now, then you’re aware of the group that believes Omar was really the white night who bolstered the teams’ minors with a ton of talent. The bottom line is while there are some decent good players, i.e. Tejada, Ike, Murphy, that came from Omar, there just aren’t as many as a team that had? the finances should be boasting. Especially considering how incredible a judge of talent Omar was supposed to be. I wouldn’t pin a gold star on Alderson at all but to look back with rose colored glasses at what Omar left this team with when there were no financial troubles, should annoy any Met fan.
Hardly the case at all Joe…
The folks who have defended Omar never once thought he was on the same pedestal people are putting Alderson on.
In fact our defense of Omar was merely to respond to the demonization made by those Sandy supporters who tried to make it sound like our Minors were a shambles with nothing to draw from as an excuse for Sandy’s attempt to sell off talent (which he really hasn’t done he mostly gave it away for MONEY not kids) and to use as a reason why we should wait 5 years for something good.
Yet we are judging Sandy by the moves (or lack of) that he has made so far!
Truth is we have a pretty good MiL system that with a little help (not forthcoming) could play and entire season of above .500 ball if the GM didn’t take any opportunity to say this team is no good and wave the white flag!
Metsie –
With respect. You can’t cherry pick a few players & declare Omar left the minors teeming with talent. Facts are he didn’t & he didn’t operate under the same Price Club mentality any Mets GM has to now. Scouts, GM’s and others with minor league experience have ranked the Mets minors in the lower half of the league. Again I’m not saying Alderson is a God among us mortals but Omar – known for being great at finding talent – not so much on retrospect.
No he didn’t operate under the same price clubn mentality and never had a season as bad as this one SAVE the one year he lost his biggest players to injury in 2009!
As for the talent well it’s there! You think they are not superstars so there is nothing well the Braves don’t have any either! Niether do the Phillies!
As for any other team you can name there aren’t any more superstars than what we have and if there are it’s because those teams haven’t been to a playoff in the last 6 years!
Money is not a an excuse!
We have reduced payroll each year since 2009 and as a result we have lost more money each year the cuts got further!
The list of what we have to work with is long and distinguished!
And considering what we have added to it since Omar left (Wheeler Nimmo and thats about it!) you sure can’t say Sandy is doing a better job with the Minors than Omar did!
5 of our starting 8 are home grown Omar guys!
2 of our Starting 8 are Sandy role players pressed into full time service because he traded away two OFers to get not much more than Wheeler when you look at the plus player side!
And when they weren’t pressed yet another Omar guy was the regular starter (Duda)
3/5th of our Starting rotation was also Omar Home Grown and all of which was Omar acquired! In two years we have made zero changes to that rotation other than Injury replacement. I guess Sandy thinks Omar did a good job there eh?
The best kid rotation guy (Harvey) we have this year was an Omar guy!
I didn’t even mention Kirk who is now hurt but looked good until the hitting approach failed him and the Hitting coach could not get through to him so he could make an adjustment.
Ike Davis when given the same cherry picking of months used to excuse Sandy’s Bullpen fixes this year is hitting .273 in August and if he did that all year long would be a potential all star. He has 22 HRs (leads the team) yet he is chopped liver?
Everyone appluads the acquisition sandy made for Hairston and Baxter yet downplay and want to trade Murphy regardless of the fact that he is ahead of both those players combined in RBI and has a better SB ratio than the “SPEEDSTER” Torres!
Truth is the Sandy supporters are merely downplaying what Omar left us so they can get away with casting FEAR as a reason for Sandy to have to take the drastic (READ DUMB) moves he has made (or not made as the case may be) that cost us two seasons of above .500 ball.
Sandy even admitted as much in his WFAN interview where he thought we could be above .500 if he didn’t trade K-Rod and were above .500 until he waited so long and then did nothing to help a team that needed a little emotional boost before the season turned to crap!
And the truth is never ONCE despite all the complaints we heard about Omar wasting draft picks to get Veteran All Stars in an attempt to WIN did Omar ever fail to sign half his draft class in a single year!
So while we can argue over how good the MiLs Omar left us actually were or are….
The truth is Sandy is only making them worse not better!
And I know those same Sandy supporters will use that destruction as proof that Omar hurt Sandy cause Sandy can do no worng and never do anything wrong in thier eyes!
I’d ask, What direction are we moving in?
I gave Sandy a pass his first season because of some really bad contracts on the books, nothing in the minors ready to help and the whole Maddoff thing hanging over the franchise.
The results this year are very similar to last year and I see the same thing for next year. The direction seems to be-do little at the major league level, sign some bad relievers and some journeymen bench players with major flaws and sit back and watch the team struggle in the 2nd half while doing nothing to improve it.
Omar turned this franchise around quickly by adding players…but he didn’t have a farm to support the team when it needed it. Now it takes a few years for a GM to really improve the farm system, Omar did improve it, but he also mismanaged it. He ran out of time before he could get any real benefit from it.
The Farm Sandy inherited was much better, but still not great. He’s had a few years to let it get stronger and I’m not sure how much improved it really is.
The sad thing is, the team won’t draw fans and make money unless Sandy does something to change the team. We can’t suffer though seasons like this and hope that the young talent will eventually help out.
Hey I just hear Bill “the spaceman” Lee pitched a complete game 9-4 win in the independent league at 65yrs of age. Is he available for the pen next year?
i think we are heading in the right direction, there is more positives then negatives, we can do this with a little help from SA . by the way CAMPIONE you Sir have the best last name , hands down .
Baseball
2010 .488 Win Pct
2011 .475 Win Pct
2012 .456 Win Pct
Finances
2010 31,602 per game
2011 29,044 per game
2012 28,662 per game
Any Questions?
Does Barry Manilow know you’re raiding his wardrobe?
Rumors abound that AGone may be headed to LA Dodgers?
Probably all Shoppach’s fault
He was claimed by the Dodgers. Sox also put Lester and Ellsbury on waivers. This is a non story until they move. Everyone puts everyone on waivers.
the mets have young pitching and that is the most important thing.
Don’t get me started on this one. I’ll give Collins credit for one statement he made after the Rockies sweep. “If you’re not hitting, it doesn’t matter what the record of the opposition is.”
But don’t tell us that you were in all the games. You just got shut out 1-0 by the WORST pitching staff in MLB. You only scored 5 freakin’ runs in the series. Your players don’t care anymore. That includes you David Wright. You’re slipping big time, bucko, and I’m not cutting you a break. I don’t care if your record is 39-86 like the Astros, you’re still supposed to show you give a sh.t for the millions you make, not wish the season were over. YOUR SUPPOSED TO BE A SOURCE OF ENTERTAINMENT FOR THE FANS WHO PAY GOOD MONEY TO SEE THE TEAM PLAY. And what do you guys do? You go through the motions. If I had the power, I’d bring up every damn player from double and triple AAA and prove to the Mets Universe that they could play with more enthusiasm than you buffoons and most certainly do better than 10-28 since the ASB.
I am excited about the young pitching prospects we have and about the season R.A. Dickey is having. I was thrilled to watch McHugh pitch a brilliant game yesterday only to see you guys let the kid down by not scoring a solitary run. Get your balls out of your hands and act like you want to be here. Christ, even Olympian Gaby Douglass embarrassed you guys yesterday.
Except for Joe D. the rest of the round table should take a hike.CLUELESS CITY!!! Hey Mr Patterson, u like Tejada and Murphy going forward.Two guys with no pop in their bats, 9 combned stolen bases?Murphy hits the softest .290-.300 in the history of baseball and has stone hands.Now i hear the guy is “tired”.From what???Walking bacn to the dugout after another weak ground ball to the infield.Go watch a good team amd tell me that Murphy ever gets a sniff of starting at 2nd base on any good team in baseball.I have wanted him traded for 2 years..
In a word, NO.
NO