I WAS ONLY SUPRISED BY JOE’S BEING BLINDSIDED BY ALDERSON’S 180 ON PROSPECTS.
I’M ALSO IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THOSE FIGURING NYM NEED BP ARMS FROM OUTSIDE AS I BELIEVE THERE ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH POTENTIALS ON THE COME IN THE LIKES OF HEFNER,FAMILIA,GORSKI TO FLESH OUT AN IMPROVED RELIEF CORPS AS A BETTER OPTION THAN SIFTING THROUGH THE REHASHED REMNANTS LIKELY AVAILABLE IN THE OFFSEASON AS WE DID LAST GO ROUND.

PERSONALLY, AS I HAVE PRIOPOSED BEFORE I’D SHUTDOWN ANY USEAGE OF RAUCH,ACOSTA,RAMIREZ REPLACING THEIR IP WITH SEPT. CALLUP OPTIONS CAN IT BE ANY WORSE THAN WHAT WE’RE SEEING NOW?

AS I SEE IT ALDERSON LIKE MINAYA IS NOT AN “OLD SCHOOL FUNCTIONALLY APABLE ON MULTILEVEL, BASEBALL ACUMEN, BUSINESS ACUMEN TYPE GM.
HE IS ONLY DIFFERENT FROM MINAYA AS THEY ARE THE YING & YANG OF A FRANK CASHEN. EACH BEING STRONG IN POLAR OPOSITE ARENAS WHERE MINAYA HAD BASEWBALL EXPRTISE, ALDERSON HAS CONTRACT, BUSINESS MNGT STRENGTHS
IN ONE WAY JOE D. NAILED ALDERSON’S PERSONA MORE PERFECTLY WITH HIS ALLUSION TO FANTASY BASEBALL
IF I WANTED A GM TO BUILD A FANTASY TEAM I’D CHOOSE ALDERSON; IF MY NEEDS ARE AN ACTUAL TEAM TO PLAY ON THE GRASS & DIRT IN ALL TYPES OF WEATHER & DAY/NIGHT CONDITIONS, MINAYA’S MY HORSE.

MY BIGEST CONCERN CERTAINLY IS NOT THE NURTS & BOLTS OF WHAT SANDY AID; BUT THE THOUGHT OF A NON-BASEBAL SCALPEL OR HATCHET BEING TAKREN TO OMAR’S SCOUTING UNIT THAT HAS PROVIDED US WITH THE MODEST TALENTS THAT AWED US APRIL THRU JULY.
OF THOSE MST OFTEN MENTIONED AS KEEPERS, THE ENTIRE INFIELD(MINAYA’S, EXCVL WRIGHT) HARVEY,NIESE,GEE.

EVEN MINAYA CASTOFFS HAVE DONE BETTER THAN NYers HAD THE PATIENCE TO REAP, HUMBER, VARGAS.

JASON BAY? AN UNFORTUNATE ISSUE NO ONE COULD HAVE ANTICIPATED MORE THAN LIKELY A COMBINATION OF CAUSES FROM BEING OVERWHELMED BY CONTRACT SIZE, FIELD DIMENSIONS & NY PRESSURES.
WHILE CITS ORIG DIMENSIONS WERE SIMILAR TO THOSE BAY EXCELLED WITHIN PNC’s VASTNESS AND NY FANDOM AKIN IN RABIDNESS TO BOSOX’ FERVOR.
HE’D OVERCOME INDIVIDUALLY ALL; BUT THE HUMONGOUS OUTPUT NEEDED TO EARN A TEAM’S SECOND HIGHEST PAYCHECK; BUT NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY FORSEE THE VERWHELMING WEIGHT THE ENTIRE PKG WOULD BUEDEN BAY WITH.

WINNINFGULTIMATELY THIS FRANCHISE’S FAILURES CAN NOT BE LAIN AT THE FEET OF ANY EMPLOYEE SIMPLY IT BELONGS TO THE OWNERS WHO HAVE CREATED UNCROSSABLE LINES BETWEEN THEMSELVES & GUARANTEED VICTORY.

IS THERE NOT A COMPARABLE CRIPPLING ISSUE BEING EXPERIENCED NOW WITH SANTANA AS OCCURED BEGINNING LATE ’06 WITH PEDRO’S BREAKDOWN?
THE UNWILLINGNESS TO PROVIDE ALTERNATIVES FOR THE #1 ROTATION SLOT AS IS OFTEN DONE BY OTHERS IN THE BRONX, PHILLY HAS CASED AN OVERALL MALAISE OF STAGNATION
TO FIELD A COMPETITIVE, CONTENDING TEAM IN NYC FOR 100M GROSS SALARY(50M NET) IS A FOOLS ERRAND/MISSION. AS EVE THE BASEBALL MINIMUM ALARY OF 400-450,000 BECOMES SUBJECT TO THE MAXIMUM TAX RATES LEVIED BY FED,NYS,NYC IN MOST INSTANCES COMPOUNDING UP TO EXCEED 50% AS COMPARED TO THE PRESENT DAY 35% BEING LEVIED AGAINST REYES.
WHOA TRY SELING THAT ONE WHILE TRYING NOT TO BE OVER 100M PAYROLL. MAY AS WELL ELIMINATE THE F/A MKTPLACE ENTIRELY AS IT’S QUITE POSSIBLE THE AGENT’S COMMISSION(HAVING BEEN PAID ON MONEY MADE IN NYS/NYC IS SUBJECT TO THE AME DRACONIAN DEMANDS. THEREFORE AGENTS WILL STEER THEIR CLIENTS CLEAR OF FLUSHING MORE OFTEN THAN NOT.

When Mayo did his Top 10 rankings in 2012
Montero
Mesoraco
d’Arnaud
Sanchez
Rosario
Grandal
Bethancourt
Lavarnway
Valle
Alfaro

When the trade happened:
Tommy Joseph, C: The 2012 Futures Gamer was ranked No. 5 on the Giants’ Top 20 at the time of the trade. Drafted in 2009 out of the Arizona high school ranks, his calling card was his bat, with many feeling he wouldn’t be able to stay behind the plate long-term. The bat was on display in 2011 as he broke out as a power-hitting run producer. He hasn’t been as dangerous in Double-A, but he still has solid hitting skills. His defensive game has improved tremendously — a strong arm in particular helps control the running game — and questions about him staying behind the plate have ended.

Can you show me where Mayo said Tommy Joseph is a top 10 catcher prospect in baseball?

It was a good trade if one did not believe in the 2011 team. It was a horrible trade for those who did.

Again, enjoyed the debate and points raised by you and Joe D.

It’s funny that you mention Johnathon Mayo because…lol….It was his ranking I followed when I mentioned Tommy Joseph being a top 10 catcher in the minors…smh…so you failed there!

You also stated:

“Carlos Lee, Shane Victorino, Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Ryan Ludwick, Lance Berkman, Matt Holliday are all examples of players who were dealt and the receiving team got less of a prospect than Wheeler.”

None of those players are the caliber of Carlos Beltran….the only player that you could mention in the same breathe as Beltran is Matt Holliday….who brought back much better in deals for his service than Alderson got for Beltran

1st Holliday trade: To Oakland for ……very successful closer Huston Street and Greg Smith, and STAR outfielder Carlos González [Far better than the Wheeler deal, not even close]

2nd Holliday trade: Brett Wallace(Whom was ranked the #19 prospect in baseball at the time by the man you mention J. Mayo and is now getting a chance to start in Hou), Clayton Mortensen(was a year removed from being a 1st rd compensation pick at the time), and Shane Peterson [Better deal]

Also let me say I never stated I didnt like the Wheeler deal but I think we could of got more in that deal and Sandy took the 1st offer and jumped at it.

My point is this hopeful outlook you have spun out of what Sandy said is dependent on other GMs giving up good hitters for an A Ball Pitcher straight up!

and you seem to think he is right and can do that, I’m just asking who you think is dumb enough to do that for him?

You’re attaching value to a rental player that isn’t realistic because you want to prove a point.

I bet if you ask 100 Giants fans today “would you like Wheeler back?” At least 90 of them would say yes I’d bet on it.

So quit acting like it was such a bad idea. You’ll never in your life know what else was offered for Beltran – you’re acting like SA picked up the phone called Sabean… Sabean said Wheeler and it was done. You have no idea if other teams were contacted or what they offered. None.

So stop trying to pretend you do please. Getting Wheeler for a 2 month rental who is 34 and has bad knees was a good trade. No matter what GM made the move for the Mets.

Move on from it already

NAME A TEAM who would make a deal for Wheeler straight up for a power hitting Bat?

Cause your friend Sany is the only who seemingly thinks those deals are possible and the only reason he might believe it is because he agreed to one yet no other major league team has settled for a single A ball player for even a decent hitting OF at the MLB level!

Pence who is no where near as good as Beltran got two AND a top prospect on top of it!
You can cite pence’s contract till the cows come home but the truth is no one would make that deal for Wheeler straight up for anything worth having EXCEPT the guy you feel the need to translate before meaning can be discerned!

The point is you’re acting like Wheeler for Beltran was a bad idea or not enough return. If Wheeler turns out to be as good as Jon Niese it’s a good trade. If he turns out better – it’s a great trade.

I am not saying Pence is a better player. I am saying under the circumstances, the Giants traded a top prospect for a rental and traded LESS for a guy who will be on their team in 2013.

Top 10 catching prospect? Says who? Not Jonathan Mayo – So who says Joseph is top 10 catching prospect in baseball? I won’t even go into how Seth Rosin is a “solid high a pitcher” but Wheeler is a “good A pitcher”

If you were the Mets would you rather have taken what the Giants gave for Pence or Wheeler?

Carlos Lee, Shane Victorino, Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Ryan Ludwick, Lance Berkman, Matt Holliday are all examples of players who were dealt and the receiving team got less of a prospect than Wheeler.

If you want quantity that is fine but quantity the Mets have – Quality is what they are missing.

We wouldn’t have to interpret things is we all just took what he said on face value and meaning exactly what he said!

Name the name dude!

Notice you mentioned the Pence trade which was NOT for a A ball pitcher straight up now was it?

Pence a good RH Bat 20to 25Hr’s tops per season. But a terrible defender

Mets got back a really good High A pitcher in Wheeler

Phillies got back
1.CASH
2.Solid High A pitcher Seth Rosin
3.And top 10 catching prospect in all of baseball Tommy Joseph(in Double A)whom is also a good power hitter a position the Mets needed desperately.

2 Totally different deals The Phils have a higher success rate because of the volume and quality of prospects as well as the CASH . While the Mets might have gotten the best single prospect they probably should have gotten more for Beltran who was the best player on the market at the time who was in high demand behind Reyes

For many years, the Mets have made the mistake of trading for “recently great” players like Alomar, Baerga, Mo Vaughn, Tony Fernandez, etc. even going back to Ken Boyer and Jim Fregosi only to see them age overnight when they became Mets. Are we going to see another one of those deals ? I’m not sure where this organization is going or what to make of Alderson’s comments..

I’m not suggesting he didn’t say whatever he said to you on a conference call. So I hope nobody thinks that.

I am saying this forum is one in which his words go out to the masses for everybody to decide what to believe. It’s our own interpretation, and I feel of all his WFAN spots etc. this was the most honest, direct, and accountable interview he has given as a Mets GM.

In April 2013 we’ll see who is right. If Thole is the starting C, and Duda is in RF and Francisco is their closer – I’ll gladly concede that I was duped on this interview.

Yes, it was refreshing to hear Sandy Alderson actually take responsibility for the mess the team is in – he did not hedge, admitted the moves he made for the bullpen did not work out – though he did not associate himself with those fifty percent players he acquired (by that I did not take it to mean putting out just 50 percent effort as it was on a scale of 1 to 100, talent wise those players were 50.

As much as it is tempting to do so – considering Sandy is the face of the Mets and has lied to us with a straight face – I will not make him the whipping boy for the Wilpons as I will say he chose to be part of it, coming into the situation on his own free will with I think a very good idea of what he was getting himself into.

Good debate between you and Joe.

“Only problem with that is not many GMs are as dumb as he is to make that trade without getting far more for that RH Power Bat!”

Obtaining the potential offensive force they desperately sought, the Giants acquired right fielder Hunter Pence and cash from the Philadelphia Phillies hours before Tuesday’s non-waiver Trade Deadline. They sent three players — right fielder Nate Schierholtz, catching prospect Tommy Joseph and Minor League right-hander Seth Rosin — to Philly.

By any GM you mean besides Philly who had a younger, healthier and more team friendly contract RF in Pence than Beltran right?

I’ll take Wheeler and his potential over what the Giants gave up for Pence. Tell me you wouldn’t.

Basically Sandy is the only one who would have traded a Beltran type straight up for a single A ball Pitcher no matter how promising he was!

Any other team would have held out for more!