24
2012
MMO Crossfire: Sandy Alderson’s 2013 Plan
An article by 
In this edition of MMO Crossfire, me and Jessep debate Sandy Alderson’s recent appearance on WFAN where he tries to convince Mike Francesa there’s a bright future ahead beginning as soon as 2013.
Jessep’s Take…
To me, this was the most honest and up front interview I have heard Sandy Alderson give as the GM of the Mets.
I think if you go into the interview thinking you refuse to believe anything he says, then you’ll never have a chance to hear what I heard.
First and foremost, he sounded like he was having a conversation with somebody he obviously respects. That to me has to be considered when you talk about his “tone.”
He sounded like a General Manager who has been through two tough years, and has seen enough and wants to make changes.
With regard to the budget, he went on to say what I’ve been saying for the past few days. You have no idea what the bottom line budget is yet, and so many things such as arbitration and trades can impact that.
I believe the Jason Bay part was the worst aspect of his interview. The problem there is, I don’t need him to talk about Jason Bay.
We all know what is going on with Bay don’t we? Do we expect Alderson to say “Bay won’t be here in 2013,”? His goal with Bay first is to try and convince somebody else that Bay has value – you don’t do that by admitting on air that he has none. It was a no win situation for him there.
The best part about the interview to me was an acceptance of blame for the bullpen woes, and the acknowledgment that this roster cannot be the roster we see in 2013. He took all blame off of Minaya and told you this is now his team. Everything is on him.
He’s giving you an inside look into how he runs an organization. He focused on changing the scouting department, and he told you that he wanted to take time and actually evaluate the team’s talent rather than rush to make judgments.
What is not to like about that if you’re a Mets fan?
One thing was clear to me – this off-season is put up or shut up for Alderson.
He told us that he recognized there needs to be immediate changes, and he made us believe he’d be active in the trade market and wants to turn things around.
If the 2013 roster looks like the 2012 roster then I may have to join Joe D in criticizing Alderson., but for now – I loved what I heard.
Joe D.’s Take…
What a difference two years has made. When we first met Sandy Alderson we saw a majestic figure riding in on his white horse – a charismatic leader brimming with confidence who was going to save a floundering franchise and lead it into the dawn of a new era.
But now, the Mets GM sounds more like a beleaguered man who has been defeated. He is fresh out of enthusiasm and ideas. There would be none of his usual attempts at humor like in his other interviews with Mike Francesa… there were no light-hearted moments like before, it had all the excitement and charm of a wake.
When the interview shifted into 2013 mode, Alderson made the assumption that payroll would be the same, but then follows that up by saying he doesn’t expect the same team on the field. He said he’s had basically the same team for two years and has gotten the same bad results. ”We need an infusion of players — productive players, players who are going to hit for power. There are only two or three ways to acquire those. I’d say the more likely avenue for us would be trades.”
Trades?
He then goes on to mention players who make $10-$12 million a year like Jason Kubel, Michael Cuddyer and Josh Willingham and hints that we shouldn’t rule out trades for productive hitters like them this offseason.
But how is that possible when for two years he’s made it clear that he wouldn’t trade prospects and give away the future for a quick fix. That’s been his philosophy all along right? He obviously knows that no team is going to trade quality productive players for any of the quasi/fringe major leaguers we want to get rid of…
What is he trading?
In fact Francesa interrupts him and says assuming your infield of Ike, Murphy, Tejada and Wright stays intact, you have no outfield, you have no bullpen and you need to add an enormous infusion of power.. that’s expensive stuff. How are you going to trade for players like that when you have nothing to trade? What are you trading to get players who are difference makers?
Alderson backpedals and proceeds to say that Jason Bay still has value to the Mets and he will be on the 2013 roster and that they are not going to eat his salary. He also follows that up by calling Lucas Duda valuable and a player they need to hang onto. Francesa again interrupts him and says, “So you’re telling the fans Bay and Duda will be in your outfield next season? Bay, who is a bust, and Duda, the guy who was hitting .111 for a month before you finally sent him down.”
“We still have faith in Lucas and we can hide him in left field where his defense won’t be as big of a problem”, Alderson quips.
So about two-thirds into the interview all we’ve learned is that Bay and Duda will be our left field platoon in 2013. Plus, Alderson has yet to answer the main question which was. how are you going to add these power bats and quality relievers via trade with the same payroll and no obvious trade chips on the roster?
“Look, let’s be honest. If we’re going to get a right-handed power hitter or a left-handed power hitter, what’s it going to cost us? Maybe $10 million to $12 million a year. If you look at Cuddyer and Kubel and guys like that…they’re very productive players. Is that a possibility for next year? I wouldn’t rule it out at this point.”
Almost frustrated at this point, Francesa asks again, “But how are you getting those players?”
Alderson finally drops the veil… ”My job right now is to set up a series of possibilities — high, low, medium. …”
Possibilities… what an interesting word… Lining up possibilities is what you do the night before your fantasy baseball draft, not what you base your major league offseason strategy on.
Finally after more pressing by Mike, Sandy answers the question…
He does a complete 180 on what has been his philosophy from day one – building from within – and says we got plenty of pitchers from Triple-A on down that are trade chips. He cites the Brooklyn Cyclones rotation as being lights-out and very desirable.
Whoa… I didn’t see that coming. Goodbye Luis Mateo, Hansel Robles, Gabe Ynoa and Luis Cessa? Is Collin McHugh or Mike Fulmer available too?
And even if he could get a couple of difference-makers via a trade for top to mid level prospects, how will he fit them into the budget If payroll stays at $100 million? (That was his unofficial number, not mine.)
There’s no way Alderson can afford to take on a couple of $12 million dollars a year players. He’s blowing smoke up our behinds. The $15 million freed up by letting Hairston, Young, Torres, Rauch and Ramirez move on, will be used for raises to Wright, Dickey, Niese, Parnell, Murphy, Davis, etc. and he still needs to fill over a dozen other roster spots.
Look folks, the bottom line is that 2013 will most likely be worse than those “dead from the neck up” teams of the late-seventies and early-eighties.
Whatever the Alderson strategy was when he first arrived has quickly evolved into a “we have to do anything we can to save our jobs” strategy. That means trading prospects for aging, high-priced veterans. We have had two murky seasons on Alderson’s watch and the reality is that 2013 could be even worse.
During this entire half-hour interview you never heard the words “competitive” and “contending”, let alone “championship caliber”. Those were words he used quite often in his first 18 months as GM. He also never mentioned the years 2014 or 2015 either, yet another departure from what he always pointed to as the years where it would all come together for this franchise and when we would see a “sustainable level of championship caliber baseball”.
Who are we trying to kid here?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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hey I thought you said around 300 words! lol
LOL, Hey my words were only 300, I simply added another 300 from actual quotes by either Alderson or Francesa.
So Michael B. and Joe D. come away with completely different takes of the interview. Hmmm…
I’ll say this, I can respect the analytical approaches you guys take, but I side with Joe. I wanted to bark down all those who called Alderson garbage early in the year. Without name-calling, I will say simply that he’s proven to be a literal loser in NY–poor decisions, lack of vision, no ability or seeming desire to show fans he wants a World Championship. Why would you ever become a GM unless your number one priority is WS rings!!!
I actually would be fine at this point trading Davis and Murph. Davis is tradeable. Let hime go to a place like COlorado, hit 30 HRs and hit .230. Adequate D, power, offers nothing much at the plate in terms of diversity, and no friggin’ speed on basepaths. Have alwyas been a fan of Murph’s, and I think his D improved markedly this year. Still, utter lack of power and way too streaky. Basically, with Murph, could take or leave.
In a sense, Jason Bay could have been a total non-issue. If he were the only weak link, we could shelve him on bench, but he was supposed to be a major component of the Mets productivity in terms of offense, and he is utterly useless. What signal are you sending to fans when you say he’s such a good man, and we owe him lots of dough, and, um, we think he’ll be good again.
I also want to think Duda has a future, but he has to come back and put up numbers fast…otherwise.
Valdespin fast became a joke. Talent for sure, but undisciplined, unbridled…LIABILITY. So we have no OF whatsoever despite the nonsense Alderson came up with for interview.
His grade for interview would be a D at best, and that’s because he was forced to deliver a bit of honesty.
What a shame!
RUSS, SIDING WITH EITHER IS,IMO, A MISTAKE AS THE TRUTH, AS USUAL LIKELY LIES BETWEEN THEIR DIVERSE OPINIONS, OBSERVATIONS, BIASES.
I WAS ONLY SUPRISED BY JOE’S BEING BLINDSIDED BY ALDERSON’S 180 ON PROSPECTS.
I’M ALSO IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THOSE FIGURING NYM NEED BP ARMS FROM OUTSIDE AS I BELIEVE THERE ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH POTENTIALS ON THE COME IN THE LIKES OF HEFNER,FAMILIA,GORSKI TO FLESH OUT AN IMPROVED RELIEF CORPS AS A BETTER OPTION THAN SIFTING THROUGH THE REHASHED REMNANTS LIKELY AVAILABLE IN THE OFFSEASON AS WE DID LAST GO ROUND.
PERSONALLY, AS I HAVE PRIOPOSED BEFORE I’D SHUTDOWN ANY USEAGE OF RAUCH,ACOSTA,RAMIREZ REPLACING THEIR IP WITH SEPT. CALLUP OPTIONS CAN IT BE ANY WORSE THAN WHAT WE’RE SEEING NOW?
AS I SEE IT ALDERSON LIKE MINAYA IS NOT AN “OLD SCHOOL FUNCTIONALLY APABLE ON MULTILEVEL, BASEBALL ACUMEN, BUSINESS ACUMEN TYPE GM.
HE IS ONLY DIFFERENT FROM MINAYA AS THEY ARE THE YING & YANG OF A FRANK CASHEN. EACH BEING STRONG IN POLAR OPOSITE ARENAS WHERE MINAYA HAD BASEWBALL EXPRTISE, ALDERSON HAS CONTRACT, BUSINESS MNGT STRENGTHS
IN ONE WAY JOE D. NAILED ALDERSON’S PERSONA MORE PERFECTLY WITH HIS ALLUSION TO FANTASY BASEBALL
IF I WANTED A GM TO BUILD A FANTASY TEAM I’D CHOOSE ALDERSON; IF MY NEEDS ARE AN ACTUAL TEAM TO PLAY ON THE GRASS & DIRT IN ALL TYPES OF WEATHER & DAY/NIGHT CONDITIONS, MINAYA’S MY HORSE.
MY BIGEST CONCERN CERTAINLY IS NOT THE NURTS & BOLTS OF WHAT SANDY AID; BUT THE THOUGHT OF A NON-BASEBAL SCALPEL OR HATCHET BEING TAKREN TO OMAR’S SCOUTING UNIT THAT HAS PROVIDED US WITH THE MODEST TALENTS THAT AWED US APRIL THRU JULY.
OF THOSE MST OFTEN MENTIONED AS KEEPERS, THE ENTIRE INFIELD(MINAYA’S, EXCVL WRIGHT) HARVEY,NIESE,GEE.
EVEN MINAYA CASTOFFS HAVE DONE BETTER THAN NYers HAD THE PATIENCE TO REAP, HUMBER, VARGAS.
JASON BAY? AN UNFORTUNATE ISSUE NO ONE COULD HAVE ANTICIPATED MORE THAN LIKELY A COMBINATION OF CAUSES FROM BEING OVERWHELMED BY CONTRACT SIZE, FIELD DIMENSIONS & NY PRESSURES.
WHILE CITS ORIG DIMENSIONS WERE SIMILAR TO THOSE BAY EXCELLED WITHIN PNC’s VASTNESS AND NY FANDOM AKIN IN RABIDNESS TO BOSOX’ FERVOR.
HE’D OVERCOME INDIVIDUALLY ALL; BUT THE HUMONGOUS OUTPUT NEEDED TO EARN A TEAM’S SECOND HIGHEST PAYCHECK; BUT NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY FORSEE THE VERWHELMING WEIGHT THE ENTIRE PKG WOULD BUEDEN BAY WITH.
WINNINFGULTIMATELY THIS FRANCHISE’S FAILURES CAN NOT BE LAIN AT THE FEET OF ANY EMPLOYEE SIMPLY IT BELONGS TO THE OWNERS WHO HAVE CREATED UNCROSSABLE LINES BETWEEN THEMSELVES & GUARANTEED VICTORY.
IS THERE NOT A COMPARABLE CRIPPLING ISSUE BEING EXPERIENCED NOW WITH SANTANA AS OCCURED BEGINNING LATE ’06 WITH PEDRO’S BREAKDOWN?
THE UNWILLINGNESS TO PROVIDE ALTERNATIVES FOR THE #1 ROTATION SLOT AS IS OFTEN DONE BY OTHERS IN THE BRONX, PHILLY HAS CASED AN OVERALL MALAISE OF STAGNATION
TO FIELD A COMPETITIVE, CONTENDING TEAM IN NYC FOR 100M GROSS SALARY(50M NET) IS A FOOLS ERRAND/MISSION. AS EVE THE BASEBALL MINIMUM ALARY OF 400-450,000 BECOMES SUBJECT TO THE MAXIMUM TAX RATES LEVIED BY FED,NYS,NYC IN MOST INSTANCES COMPOUNDING UP TO EXCEED 50% AS COMPARED TO THE PRESENT DAY 35% BEING LEVIED AGAINST REYES.
WHOA TRY SELING THAT ONE WHILE TRYING NOT TO BE OVER 100M PAYROLL. MAY AS WELL ELIMINATE THE F/A MKTPLACE ENTIRELY AS IT’S QUITE POSSIBLE THE AGENT’S COMMISSION(HAVING BEEN PAID ON MONEY MADE IN NYS/NYC IS SUBJECT TO THE AME DRACONIAN DEMANDS. THEREFORE AGENTS WILL STEER THEIR CLIENTS CLEAR OF FLUSHING MORE OFTEN THAN NOT.
Great debate guys, me coming from the I don’t trust SA camp, yet as JoeD pointed out where do we get the RH power bat needed which by the way, unless you trade Ike you have to put him in OF.
Catching needs to be addressed to because Thole while a serviceable catcher for RA has seen his offense go down over the past few years, .783 to .614 plus where are the RBI or HR?
Getting Kubel would just add another LH bat that Mets don’t need, Cuddyer is hurt and what will his status be next year plus Josh “The Hammer” is still wanted by Twins who didn’t trade him this year so to get him SA would have to overwhelm them, not send them journey men pitchers, other than Gomez, in Santana trade and if we are building from within how much of your possible pitching future, which appears at this time to be good, do you sacrifice for aging Willingham or Cuddyer who no spring chickens.
SA is in a bad spot because of lack of RH bats in miors on horizon while emphasis on pitching continues; what is the crop of RH bats available this winter?
Lastly, don’t know how, but this team needs to get more athletic and add some speed because the base to base hitting, it takes 4 hits at times to score one run can’t be allowed to continue.
The budget, the budget I feel won’t be revealed until whatever moves that are being planned are made.
2013 there will be changes. Will they be cosmetic or meaningful changes (as meaningful games in September)? The budget will determine the answer but not the only part of the answer. SP even with Santana’s issues looks adequate. If pitching is indeed ninety percent of the game we might be a .500 team. As for beyond 2013 slow improvement as young pitches get thru growing pains. But unless the budget allows us to get bonefide hitters it will be awhile before we make the playoffs.
hotstreak – thanks for jumping in with your views! always welcomed here at MMO!
Ike could be a trade piece but who do you play at 1B to provide almost gold glove play there plus I believe Ike will return to form next year.
Murphs seems to be a victim of his work out proces/routine of taking swings constantly in cage during season and maybe his off season work out needs to be scaled back or include more cardio because being tired is ridiculous especially for a non pitcher.
I heard 2 different things in this interview that gave me one conclusion. He made comments like their needs to be improvements and not ones of the incremental kind. They cannot be complacent in the off-season. He used a analogy that for the last couple years it was about “home buying” and trying to find a place that is the right fit and now “it is probably time to buy the house”. He said all the things as fans wanted to hear, until Fatcessa asked is it possible to do this when you still have Bay and Santana’s contract on the books and he said “that is a excellent question”. It’s not the question it is the answer.
The guy is smart enough to assess team needs, we all know what the needs of the team are. Will he be able to address it while adding payroll? It doesn’t sound like it. And it’s not all about payroll but this team is far enough of where funds would need to be spent to get a modest improvement.
Here’s my thing about this interview – Never before have I heard him actually point out flaws, mistakes on his part, and actual needs to improve and a plan of what he wants to do in the immediate future.
I’ve heard generic talking points, but never an actual “this needs to be changed.”
That is what I liked. It seemed less like a company line interview and more of a GM who has seen all he needs to see from certain players and he’s now in a position to make changes he feels are necessary.
I can’t call him a liar on that until he proves he’s lying about it. I’ll review in Spring 2013 and see if this interview proved to be talking lines or real chat from a GM
What do you mean? Last year before the offseason he said specifically that his priorities were to 1. Re-sign Jose Reyes, 2. Revamp the bullpen, 3. Upgrade one of the outfield positions, 4. Sign a starter who can give us quality innings.
He said that to me and other bloggers on the conference call the day before the Winter Meetings.
It was also his mantra in other interviews during the offseason.
Those plans sounded pretty specific to me.
Actually, I see Mr. North Jersey is commenting here. He can confirm that list with his co-blogger Ed Marcus from RDMB who was on that call with me.
I shot Ed a link to the article.
Salty: I provided the transcript. I don’t think SA’s responses were as clear as “here are our priorities, “1 2 3 and 4.”
I’ll ask Ed but you will probably get a faster reply from him via twitter. He seems to live in twitter more than anywhere else. I know one of your rival blogs had a full transcript of that blogger conference if it’s the one that there was a joke about the walking dead.
Speaking of transcript did you get the email I sent regarding a transcribing site?
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/12/1/2604766/transcript-of-sandy-aldersons-conference-call-with-bloggers
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2011/12/sandy-alderson-on-if-jose-reyes-is-a-franchise-player.html
That was the call you reference?
Sorry but I do not see where he lays out in specific detail the need
1. Re-sign Jose Reyes, 2. Revamp the bullpen, 3. Upgrade one of the outfield positions, 4. Sign a starter who can give us quality innings.
I just don’t. I wasn’t on the call and that is the worst thing about a transcript but to me he was much – much more detailed with Francesa the other night than this transcript.
If this isn’t the one – can you shoot the link of the transcript?
By the way this winter meetings call was a great read. Great questions
But I still think he was much more direct on WFAN to the masses than he’s ever been.
If you compare that interview to every SA interview done to the masses – it was more direct and to the point and less company line driven.
So you are saying Sandy Alderson had no plan for 2012? Do you really believe that? You are going to tell me that Alderson didn’t have a goal to revamp the bullpen? And yesterday was the first time you ever heard him say anything specific about his offseason goals? Come on MIke….
Nobody remembers “Signing Jose Reyes is our top priority?” or “We certainly need to revamp the bullpen this offseason because it certainly fell apart after we lost Francisco Rodriguez.”? Did I dream all that last October?
Again you’re mixing GM Speak with what we heard.
Here’s the difference to me
GM Speak: Jason Bay still has value
Honest Talk: We need an outfield power bat, the bullpen was my fault, we’ve seen enough in 2 years to make decisions on some of these players to ensure the 2013 roster is different.
GM Speak dictates of course he’d never go on air to say “yeah he’s done.”
GM Speak on September 29th is to say Jose Reyes is the top priority. He’s a pending free agent what was he going to say? “We have no interest in Reyes returning to the Mets.”
Actions speak louder than words with a GM. Heck, the Yankees played hardball with Derek Jeter!!!
This is why I said “If the 2013 roster looks like the 2012 roster then I may have to join Joe D in criticizing Alderson”
Because to me that interview was different for fans than any other he’s done and he put himself and his team on notice. That 2011 and 2012 will not be tolerated. Now prove it.
I’ll get mad when he doesn’t prove it – not before he has a chance to prove it
We’ll agree it was different because it was different. There was no enthusiasm, there was no longer any talk of sustainable championship caliber baseball in 2014 and 2015, and most of all there was no discussion at all about having a competitive team in 2013. If this was his state of the union speech, most Mets fans should come away disappointed, and not excited.
To me saying you expect the 2013 team to look different from 2012 *IS* saying you hope to be competitive in 2013.
I’m not suggesting he didn’t say whatever he said to you on a conference call. So I hope nobody thinks that.
I am saying this forum is one in which his words go out to the masses for everybody to decide what to believe. It’s our own interpretation, and I feel of all his WFAN spots etc. this was the most honest, direct, and accountable interview he has given as a Mets GM.
In April 2013 we’ll see who is right. If Thole is the starting C, and Duda is in RF and Francisco is their closer – I’ll gladly concede that I was duped on this interview.
Problem is some want to believe what they want to believe regardless of what he actually said!
We wouldn’t have to interpret things is we all just took what he said on face value and meaning exactly what he said!
Jessup your merely substituting what you heard for what you WANTED to hear here!
He said the same thing before the deadline about a Power RHB and what happened eventually?
He said he thought Jason Bay could be that RH bat and didn’t lift a finger to try and get what he said he wanted a week before!
You should start listening to what he says and stop trying to translate it into what you think you want to hear!
“He said the same thing before the deadline about a Power RHB and what happened eventually?”
the team tanked?
Would it have tanked if he gohe RH power bat he said he needed?
That tanking encompassed a 5-6 game losing streak coming off the ASG.
If he had done something or hadn’t waved the white flag and reversed his previous statements maybe they don’t lose the heart they have now and they don’t tank!
Metsie: To respond to your question I will simply paste a question you asked me
“So you agree with him we are one player away?”
(Note: He never said we were 1 player away in this interview but you seem to imply it’d be ridiculous if he said such a thing – yet you’re telling me now if he got 1 bat everything would be okay in 2012.)
One player away from where we were a year ago!
Last year we went after CF and BP
what constitutes two thirds of the plan he stated in the interview?
CF and BP!
IF set, Duda and Bay platoon
This year we are going after CF,BP and that one extra player in RF!
You call that change I merely call it the same plan with a realization that we got a player worse than he thought it was ayear ago!
“We finished poorly, we started poorly. Part of that was attributable to injury, but some of it was a result of weakening the team later for long-term benefit. I think for example, if we’d kept Frankie Rodriguez, we would have finished well over .500. I think that the lack of a closer cost us a number of games.”
Is different to me than “Mea Culpa” when asked about the bullpen.
Because his quote about KRod was also an indictment on Isringhausen not being able to do the job they thought he could do.
He said when asked about trying to fix the bullpen “Mea Culpa”. My Mistake.
I’d have to go through a lot of GM quotes but I’d bet a lot don’t go on the biggest sports talk radio show in the biggest market and flat out say “I messed up.”
No I am saying that never before had he been so upfront with the general population of Mets fans about what the flaws were and how he plans to move forward.
I’m saying he’s danced around subjects and talked more about money than we have to improve in key spots and we have to do it now.
He’s never sounded to me like a guy who wanted to hold every player accountable. He never told us this team will not be next year’s team.
He never said “my mistake” like he did with the bullpen fixes.
He was less company and more honest as a GM in my view on items he can be honest with. He gave a general fan an idea that he plans on ACTING on fixing things now rather than sitting and waiting around.
To me he made it sounded like 2011 and 2012 are separate from what they hope to do in 2013. That the issues that handcuffed them in the past are behind them.
He did too. He took the blame for the bullpen collapse because of the K-Rod trade. He actually said that on WFAN too if I’m not mistaken.
You know what though?
Ultimately we all hear what we want to hear, and ignore what we’d rather not hear. That’s what these Crossfire piece clearly illustrate more than anything else. Right?
And for the pen this season. I believe the exact words were “Mea Culpa”. Also he didn’t try to say this was not his team when Francesa tried to suggest as much.
Right. He didn’t back down when he EASILY could have said – this is the team I was handed.
He said today, this is my team. He’s holding himself accountable.
I dont understand what we are doing. Is the point that this was a great interview because he took the blame for a bad bullpen revamping? He took the blame last year too, I don’t think we are disagreeing about that. Who else can he blame beside himself? My point as the title suggest is not about 2012, but about 2013. Because he took the blame for 2012, it doesn’t mean a better future for 2013 does it?
By the way, I’m on record that Jason Bay will be on the Opening Day roster.
Per Ed on Twitter “joe is correct if memory is right”
Not a great interview just pointing out that he also took blame for this year’s pen as last season’s as you stated. I think if anything too much is being made of this interview. When the season comes to it’s end there will be another conference where the Mets will address the media and fans as to the approach of the off season. Yesterday he clearly said there were things still to be discussed regarding the off season. Now that could be just trying to be evasive or indeed fact but considering that we are still far from the end of the season I tend to think it’s a bit of both.
Face it people tend to hang on every word the GM says looking for something to say aha gotcha so it’s not surprising to see words said yesterday taken and dissected to the extent they have. Yesterday was not a big reveal interview in my opinion. That may still come but yesterday was more of just stating the obvious. the pen failed and what the team lacks while taking responsibility.
Joe D: I sincerely hope you’re wrong about Bay being on the opening day roster.
They cut Castillo and Perez during ST. Their salaries together almost = what Bay will make. To me, there should be nothing stopping them from cutting him as well.
I know they’re not going to go out and find a big FA LF but I don’t care. Give one of the prospects a chance (maybe Duda, Spin) or resign Hairston and pick up a platoon partner.
There’s no reason we should have to watch Bay next season, I don’t care how broke the Mets are.
I firmly believe the Bay issue is not his decision. I think it’s the only one his hands are tied with.
My point is he told me in that interview that this team will look different than 2012. He told me that some guys who have been here for 2 years he’s seen enough to make a decision that they need to move on.
That tells me for starters, bye bye Thole.
He also told me that LF will be a platoon with Duda/Bay. He also seemed pretty clear that CF and RF need new talent.
Obviously the bullpen needs to be fixed again.
Rather than give excuses, he made me believe he has the means to ACT on some things whereas in the past he was handcuffed a bit. He made specific mention to being open to trades, which means some young talent can be dealt – something that hasn’t been available it seems in the past.
So time will tell. If we have a new C, RF, CF, and bullpen with a new closer – then I was right.
If we see Thole, Francisco as closer, Duda in RF for example – then the people who suggest he’s defeated and dishonest win.
Let’s check back in April 2013.
If the Bay decision isn’t Sandy’s – and I’m assuming you’re implying it’s the Wilpons…
and they don’t cut him? Just want more reason in my book the Wilpons have no business owning a MLB team anymore.
Is that belief based on anything Sandy or the Wilpons have said or merely because thats what you WANT to believe because you don’t want to believe that Sandy would keep him otherwise?
Thank you Mr. North Jersey, I just replied to your email. Nice find!
Thank you also Salty Gary for checking with Ed.
We actually had a few conference calls between the end of the season and the winter meetings both with just bloggers or some bloggers and media. Wasn’t sure which one it was, but I know Ed was on the one where he laid out his goals.
“We’ve explored a couple of trade possibilities, but I prefer actually to go the free agent route because it doesn’t cost us anything in player inventory, but we’ll just have to see what happens”
180 degrees from what he said on WFAN with Francesa
Hi Jessep,
Yes, it was refreshing to hear Sandy Alderson actually take responsibility for the mess the team is in – he did not hedge, admitted the moves he made for the bullpen did not work out – though he did not associate himself with those fifty percent players he acquired (by that I did not take it to mean putting out just 50 percent effort as it was on a scale of 1 to 100, talent wise those players were 50.
As much as it is tempting to do so – considering Sandy is the face of the Mets and has lied to us with a straight face – I will not make him the whipping boy for the Wilpons as I will say he chose to be part of it, coming into the situation on his own free will with I think a very good idea of what he was getting himself into.
Good debate between you and Joe.
Just as one has to come to grips that the Wilpons will not sell the team one has to come to grips that the GM is not going to say Jason Bay is a bust and they are going to get rid of him. They in my opinion are going to try and maintain whatever lil value he may have in hopes they at some point can convince someone to take him off their hands this off season.
I don’t know how others interpret building from within but my understanding was this also included building up the farm to a point where you can use it to bring in players in areas of need using the farm.
I think the buying the house analogy was not a good choice. I understand or at least think the intent was to say he now better knows what he has in the organization but the flip side to that in my opion he also is saying he didn’t know what he had last season so that means allowing FMart to go was a decision that was not well thought out.
Listened to Francesca’s rant after game yesterday, Wow, he said what I wanted to say during game yesterday and If I had my wife would have taken remote away and made me increase my blood pressure meds.
What he said is what I thought going into series, maybe 3 of 4, not losing all 4 to the worst pitching staff, as he said, plus when I saw lineup 1st game I said here is this series on a platter for a struggling team but as been happening lately, we dropped the plate and our manager said, “Its ok, I’ll get you another plate (Astros maybe?) but didn’t scold them over being sloppy, 4 times; what has happened to that fiery mgr from Astros?
While I cede Francesca’s point over Harvey/Collin pitching to AAA call ups along with Fowler/Cargo in lineup, they did have a plan, stuck to it and showed what they had because both pitchers had been struggling in AAA also so to come up and have the composure they had in 1st game is reason to hope, Seaver, Ryan, Gooden, maybe not but better than this team has seen come up from minors in many years.
Hope is a great thing so we shall see but what SA/Wilpons do will ultimately decide the direction for this franchise.
I took away from SA’s interview that he tried to stick to his original plan, then say there was latitude then try to say the $$$ weren’t set but all this did was leave me with uncertainty in FO for the 1st time in many years.
Hey here is a thought, why not try to get Rutledge from Rocks, maybe send them Murph along with another piece maybe low A pitcher and then put him at SS and move Tejada to 2B or vice a versa because he has shown in this series that he can hit, just saying since Tulo is coming back and they have Nelson at 2B.
What a change a day makes in “Francesca World” when you listen to hit rant from yesterday from his interview with SA in which he didn’t really push him on Duda or Bay.
He hedged on Bay but I guess if you plan to move him you don’t degrade him but if he is part of roster next year then SA has gone back on improving this team because I don’t know if him turning it around in ST warrants giving him a roster spot.
Ultimately the money owed makes a big reason why he will be here.
Hmmmm Hey JoeD does MMO have a health plan that we can get a hearing test for Jessup because he seems to hear things a little differently than others….
“He sounded like a General Manager who has been through two tough years, and has seen enough and wants to make changes.”
So this change means:
The Infield is set and Duda and Bay are in the lineup.
So what exactly are we changing the CF and Bullpen?
Isn’t that what we did last offseason?
Traded Pagan who turned out to have a pretty good season for that awful bullpen and a CF who can’t even outplay a rookie named valdespin who has never played the position before?
WHAT ARE WE CHANGING?
NOTHING!
But maybe the page on the calendar!
Actually Metsie – if you want to question my hearing maybe you should listen to the interview.
He said Duda will likely be a LF and Bay’s “value” is in a platoon role at most against Lefties. Which means Duda/Bay in LF.
Which means they need a RF. Which is why he listed off players like he did because they need a RF who can hit for power.
So you agree with him we are one player away? A Power Hitting RFer?
Thats the massive change we can expect?
“So you agree with him we are one player away? A Power Hitting RFer?
Yet another thing he did not say. Stop writing to me making up things he said and asking for a response.
He never said they were 1 player away. Never.
Infield set, OF consists of Bay and Duda that leaves only CF and RF so maybe TWO players away!
Well one player away from what we were last year!
CF and BP was what we worked on last offseason so the change from this year to next is ONE PLAYER a RFer!
Hopefully, if we have to trade young talent we get back young talent and not trade young for over 30 players.
One or two of those young pitchers for a Toronto Catching prospect or someones talented outfielder.
Guys when will everyone get it. Its not about Alderson, it’s not about Terry Collins, it’s about 2 guys named Wilpon. They call the shots.
Some Met fans make me laugh because they believe Alderson really has a plan when he’s only here to cut payroll and do the will of the Wilpons. I didn’t here this interview, but I don’t have to because I’m sure he perked up his fans and told them exactly what they were hoping to hear. Some of you are too gullible and just dont get it. Alderson is a GM in name only, in truth he’s Wilpon and Selig’s henchman.
Alderson is out of touch with reality!!!!! So Francesa asks him who his trade chips are and he mentions the starters in Brooklyn who are pitching lights out?!?!?! What GM in his right mind would trade a power hitting major league outfielder for short-season players!!!!!!!! Who would do that!!!!!!! Alderson is absolutely nuts!!!!!!! These are short-season players, nobody trades established commodities for guys that aren’t even in LOW-A!!!!!!!!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!
Well look at it from Sandy’s POV…He got Wheeler who was no more than A ball pitcher at the time for a power hitting RH Bat!
Only problem with that is not many GMs are as dumb as he is to make that trade without getting far more for that RH Power Bat!
A knock I have made regarding the Beltran trade since the day it happened that got shot down by the guys with apologist interests.
Wheeler for a rental on Beltran may seem like a good deal but it’s not a deal that any other GM aside from the cost cutting Sandy is going to make!
cmon that was a great trade. Wheeler’s literally ranked as one of the top 10-20 prospects in the game by pretty much every prospect guru out there.
Yeah and who woud you get for him straight up from some other team?
Please enlighten us!
Basically Sandy is the only one who would have traded a Beltran type straight up for a single A ball Pitcher no matter how promising he was!
Any other team would have held out for more!
“Basically Sandy is the only one who would have traded a Beltran type straight up for a single A ball Pitcher no matter how promising he was! Any other team would have held out for more!”
“Only problem with that is not many GMs are as dumb as he is to make that trade without getting far more for that RH Power Bat!”
Obtaining the potential offensive force they desperately sought, the Giants acquired right fielder Hunter Pence and cash from the Philadelphia Phillies hours before Tuesday’s non-waiver Trade Deadline. They sent three players — right fielder Nate Schierholtz, catching prospect Tommy Joseph and Minor League right-hander Seth Rosin — to Philly.
By any GM you mean besides Philly who had a younger, healthier and more team friendly contract RF in Pence than Beltran right?
I’ll take Wheeler and his potential over what the Giants gave up for Pence. Tell me you wouldn’t.
Beltran a Switch hitting power bat 30 to 40HR’s per season
(whom is better offensively and defensively than Pence even at his age and with his knees.)
Pence a good RH Bat 20to 25Hr’s tops per season. But a terrible defender
Mets got back a really good High A pitcher in Wheeler
Phillies got back
1.CASH
2.Solid High A pitcher Seth Rosin
3.And top 10 catching prospect in all of baseball Tommy Joseph(in Double A)whom is also a good power hitter a position the Mets needed desperately.
2 Totally different deals The Phils have a higher success rate because of the volume and quality of prospects as well as the CASH . While the Mets might have gotten the best single prospect they probably should have gotten more for Beltran who was the best player on the market at the time who was in high demand behind Reyes
Beltran a 2 month rental at age 34 is less valuable than a 29 year old RF whom you know will be on your team next year.
I am not saying Pence is a better player. I am saying under the circumstances, the Giants traded a top prospect for a rental and traded LESS for a guy who will be on their team in 2013.
Top 10 catching prospect? Says who? Not Jonathan Mayo – So who says Joseph is top 10 catching prospect in baseball? I won’t even go into how Seth Rosin is a “solid high a pitcher” but Wheeler is a “good A pitcher”
If you were the Mets would you rather have taken what the Giants gave for Pence or Wheeler?
Carlos Lee, Shane Victorino, Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Ryan Ludwick, Lance Berkman, Matt Holliday are all examples of players who were dealt and the receiving team got less of a prospect than Wheeler.
If you want quantity that is fine but quantity the Mets have – Quality is what they are missing.
Yadda Yadda Yadda…The question still remains who you getting from someone else for Wheeler straight up?
I’m not trading Wheeler so I have no idea nor do I care.
The point is you’re acting like Wheeler for Beltran was a bad idea or not enough return. If Wheeler turns out to be as good as Jon Niese it’s a good trade. If he turns out better – it’s a great trade.
Missing the point or hiding from it as usual…
NAME A TEAM who would make a deal for Wheeler straight up for a power hitting Bat?
Cause your friend Sany is the only who seemingly thinks those deals are possible and the only reason he might believe it is because he agreed to one yet no other major league team has settled for a single A ball player for even a decent hitting OF at the MLB level!
Pence who is no where near as good as Beltran got two AND a top prospect on top of it!
You can cite pence’s contract till the cows come home but the truth is no one would make that deal for Wheeler straight up for anything worth having EXCEPT the guy you feel the need to translate before meaning can be discerned!
No I’m merely avoiding taking part in a hypothetical conversation where it is impossible to say who is right or wrong.
You’re attaching value to a rental player that isn’t realistic because you want to prove a point.
I bet if you ask 100 Giants fans today “would you like Wheeler back?” At least 90 of them would say yes I’d bet on it.
So quit acting like it was such a bad idea. You’ll never in your life know what else was offered for Beltran – you’re acting like SA picked up the phone called Sabean… Sabean said Wheeler and it was done. You have no idea if other teams were contacted or what they offered. None.
So stop trying to pretend you do please. Getting Wheeler for a 2 month rental who is 34 and has bad knees was a good trade. No matter what GM made the move for the Mets.
Move on from it already
And if you asked 100 Met fans if they wanted Beltran back 90 would say yes too!
My point is this hopeful outlook you have spun out of what Sandy said is dependent on other GMs giving up good hitters for an A Ball Pitcher straight up!
and you seem to think he is right and can do that, I’m just asking who you think is dumb enough to do that for him?
Hi Jessep,
It was a good trade if one did not believe in the 2011 team. It was a horrible trade for those who did.
Again, enjoyed the debate and points raised by you and Joe D.
Jessep,
It’s funny that you mention Johnathon Mayo because…lol….It was his ranking I followed when I mentioned Tommy Joseph being a top 10 catcher in the minors…smh…so you failed there!
You also stated:
“Carlos Lee, Shane Victorino, Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Ryan Ludwick, Lance Berkman, Matt Holliday are all examples of players who were dealt and the receiving team got less of a prospect than Wheeler.”
None of those players are the caliber of Carlos Beltran….the only player that you could mention in the same breathe as Beltran is Matt Holliday….who brought back much better in deals for his service than Alderson got for Beltran
1st Holliday trade: To Oakland for ……very successful closer Huston Street and Greg Smith, and STAR outfielder Carlos González [Far better than the Wheeler deal, not even close]
2nd Holliday trade: Brett Wallace(Whom was ranked the #19 prospect in baseball at the time by the man you mention J. Mayo and is now getting a chance to start in Hou), Clayton Mortensen(was a year removed from being a 1st rd compensation pick at the time), and Shane Peterson [Better deal]
Also let me say I never stated I didnt like the Wheeler deal but I think we could of got more in that deal and Sandy took the 1st offer and jumped at it.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120118&content_id=26377496&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
When Mayo did his Top 10 rankings in 2012
Montero
Mesoraco
d’Arnaud
Sanchez
Rosario
Grandal
Bethancourt
Lavarnway
Valle
Alfaro
When the trade happened:
Tommy Joseph, C: The 2012 Futures Gamer was ranked No. 5 on the Giants’ Top 20 at the time of the trade. Drafted in 2009 out of the Arizona high school ranks, his calling card was his bat, with many feeling he wouldn’t be able to stay behind the plate long-term. The bat was on display in 2011 as he broke out as a power-hitting run producer. He hasn’t been as dangerous in Double-A, but he still has solid hitting skills. His defensive game has improved tremendously — a strong arm in particular helps control the running game — and questions about him staying behind the plate have ended.
Can you show me where Mayo said Tommy Joseph is a top 10 catcher prospect in baseball?
So then tell us who we are going to get for Wheeler straight up….
Name the name dude!
Notice you mentioned the Pence trade which was NOT for a A ball pitcher straight up now was it?
He’s not going to get a Josh Willingham for that entire rotation. I mean would we trade David Wright for another team’s NYPL players? I sure hope not. And I’m pretty sure Wright is gone because I dont see why he would want to play out the rest of his career with such a miserably owned franchise by the Wilpons.
When the Mets hired Sandy and his moneyball cohorts, what I was expecting was for them to spot some cheap talent that other organizations had given up on as well as players from Independent leagues or Asia. It is their failure to do so that is my greatest disappointment. Even the Yankees added Cody Eppley and Clay Rapada, the Braves signed Ben Sheets, the Orioles got Wei-Yin Chen, the penny-pinching Twins got Josh Willingham. There are dozens of players making significant contributions in the big leagues who were available to the Mets and were not high-price free agents. The Mets actually made a nice move when they picked up Quintin Berry in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 draft, only to release him. I expected so much more in terms of “innovative” talent evaluation. The answer is not to trade Wilmer Flores and Jeurys Familia for a Kubel or Cuddyer type.
For many years, the Mets have made the mistake of trading for “recently great” players like Alomar, Baerga, Mo Vaughn, Tony Fernandez, etc. even going back to Ken Boyer and Jim Fregosi only to see them age overnight when they became Mets. Are we going to see another one of those deals ? I’m not sure where this organization is going or what to make of Alderson’s comments..
hey Barry thanks for chiming in! Hope to hear from you on other posts as well!