7
2012
Mets May Need To Add Three Starting Outfielders For 2013
An article by 
Right now the Mets outfield situation is a disaster. Who would have thought that not one single player would solidify himself this season as a starter for 2013. Just about everyone we have thrown out there has left something to be desired. There is still time for that to change, but time is running out quickly.
The Amazin: Where would we be without Scott Hairston? He is so scary good against lefties that he bats cleanup for us against them. Scott has arguably been the best signing by Sandy Alderson in the two years since he arrived. However, he is basically a one trick pony and is mostly a dead pull hitter. As the season has gone along he has started to go the other way more, and has recently been driving the ball to right field. Hairston is a guaranteed keeper for 2013 if the price is right. But even Alderson acknowledged last week that Hairston may have priced himself out of the Mets plans for 2013. Sadly, Hariston is really not a starter and is much better suited to thrive off the bench.
The Good: Kirk Nieuwenhuis did a great job for the first few months. He put on a nice display offensively showing both home run and gap power, not to mention batting for a nice average. His defense was outstanding and he showed he may even be better than Torres in center. After a while the league began to catch up to him and he appeared overmatched at the plate. It eventually led to a demotion to Triple-A to work things out. Now things are up in the air about whether he can contribute consistently at this level or if he will just be another bench option.
Andres Torres has been solid, but not spectacular defensively. But offensively, Torres has been spotty. He has not been the threat on the bases we had hoped for, totaling just 10 steals and 37 runs scored on the season. Torres was initially brought in to be a table-setter at the top of the order, but instead he only bats there on occasion. That said, Torres has been on kind of a tear of late, batting .323 in the last 30 days and .345 in the last ten games with an .873 OPS. He has been a force against left-handed pitching and has a slash of .304/.427/.441 in 124 plate appearances against them this season.
The Dude’s power went out in 2012
The Average: Lucas Duda did not hit like he did last season. His power numbers came in spurts, and his defense was…..well……we won’t go there. He tried to learn the outfield at the Major League level and that has proven to be a difficult task for him. He still has a very good shot to earn a spot next season, but he needs to improve drastically on the defensive side. His offense also left much to be desired. He showed flashes of what we hoped he would be, but for the most part was very inconsistent. He had extended slumps and long power outages. His bat needed to make up for his poor defense, but that was far from what happened. The Dude Abides in the minors for now.
The Horrific: Jason Bay has lost his way. He can’t make consistent contact, he seems scared at the plate, and teams are now walking players to get to him. Even when he hits the ball on the barrel it dies at the warning track and lands in the outfielder’s glove. In 149 plate appearances, Bay is batting .154/.248/.245, and he has a .696 career OPS with the Mets since signing his $66 million dollar deal.
The Wild Card: Jordany Valdespin has the most dynamic skill set of any Major League ready player we have on our 40-man roster. He came up as an infielder, but with Murphy and Tejada raking it appears his future may be in the outfield. He has the skills to play out there and with nobody set to man a particular spot in 2013, he basically has his pick of where he wants to play. All he has to do it hit and play a decent outfield and he should be a shoe in as a starter in 2013. If he takes a nose dive offensively in the second then we are in big trouble.
We still have two months left to go, so hopefully some of these players can rebound a bit to show the Mets brass that they should still be considered for a spot on the 2013 roster. Someone needs to step up, because it will be really difficult to bring in three starters from the outside.
Thoughts from Joe D.
We are in dire straits when it comes to the outfield. Two of our potential options for 2013, Lucas Duda and Jordany Valdespin are not even outfielders by trade. While the athletically gifted Valdespin has a chance to evolve into an average centerfielder, let’s not ignore the fact he’s batting .260 with a .288 OBP and is hitting .172 in his last ten games. Lets also not ignore the fact that Torres will be 35 next season, or that Hairston probably wont be back. Jason Bay? As long as he’s still here, you have to count him in for 2013. He makes more than Castillo and Perez combined and cutting him won’t be as easy as it was cutting them two. There was supposed to be the money saved from not bringing back Reyes… Where did that money go? I haven’t seen it, have you? Nobody is on the way in the minors. Den Dekker might be a September callup in 2013. Wilmer Flores is still bouncing around all over the infield and the thought of him as a potential left fielder and replacement for Jason Bay hasn’t even crossed their mind yet. The outfield is a mess right now.
About the Author: Dan Valis
I am a staff writer for Mets Merized Online. I am a Mets team analyst with a focus on the minor league system, as well as the major league club. I am a lifelong New Yorker who was born and raised to be a Mets fan. The ups and downs of being a Mets fan is what makes following this team so much fun, but at times so frustrating. You can follow me on Twitter @BgAppleMetsTalk.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
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Just going by the title alone, let me say this. Dont worry! Sandy Alderson will revamp the outfield this offseason. o_0
And when he does, i am sure that’ll be a good day too…. The guy has been excellent with this team… don’t worry guys
Hard to tell if you’re serious (is o_0 an indication?), but I’m losing my faith in SA and his comrades.
I have really been patient in judging his performance, but it’s wearing thin. He should have made some minor adjustments well before the deadline.
but I’m losing my faith in SA and his comrades”
Gorge, well, Since day one when sabergooners in this site when nuts when he was hired i have been skeptical. As a GM he has had 6 straight losing seasons, and most of the moves he was making in SD were a little head scratching. I think it was like 3 or 4 years that he was in DR vacatio… Errrr, Working for the commissioner and i felt he was brought in to fix the financial mess, collect his paycheck and GTFO, however, a lot of people have pegged him to be a genius, a guy who will ride the franchise to a championship and i never bought that.
Once he’s out of here we can talk baseball, in the meantime, it’s payroll and minor leaguers, and scrap heap players who are low risk/low reward.
Clarification for the over dramatics……….no one ever considered or called him a genius, and people were/are looking for a new direction from failure that has plagued this organization for many years does not equate going nuts, as well as people that are grown up enough to give him a chance does not mean they are a sabregoon, whatever that ridicules pretend word means, despite your constant juvenile reference.
Here’s my question to my fellow Mets fans, whether detractors of Alderson, neutral, or Sandy’s Champs. If our Metsies, improve their overall record from last year, what will it portend/forebode/mean?
Will it have been a result of good coaching and a slow and steady F.O. approach, or will it mean that the predicted-to-be-100-game-loser Mets miraculously lucked out?
My $ would say that at the very least some success would have to go the staff and F.O. And I would look forward to 2013.
However, if the next seven weeks result in a significant nosedive and a fourth-place finish, I think some part of the head should be excised.
It depends on how they win games. If the starting pitching continues to excel and the bullpen comes around and the offense is producing runs and the youngins’ are producing, then that is a good sign. It means you are winning because you are good and wil lget better over time.
If it because Philly and Miami continue to crap the bed and someone like Hairston or Torres go buck wild at the plate, I’d be concerned, since neither of those guys are here long term and you can’t rely half the division sucking every year.
And right on cue, the people who love and defend the guy come to his aide.. It’s pathetic and sad that MOST of the people who labeled him some sort of savior are the same people who are reluctant to see this man is not here to work for the mets fan base but for the wilpons, who took the advise of selig to get this moneyballer here to fix the financial mess they were in. This man does not care about the fans of the mets, or his legacy as a GM, that is why he can have losing seasons and be “respected” somehow in the game by some (not sure who but according to some ppl in here, he is respected, what i think is he’s an aho-le). Stop drinking the saberkool aid, if anything the franchise is worst today than it was more than a year ago, and that is with no respectable player getting hurt or anything, now that ppl started getting hurt we have seen how our season how spiraled out of control.
Still believe some of you are shooting the messenger.
Historic 50 MIL payroll cut in one season. Wilpon’s Mets are broke. Don’t care who the GM is, they weren’t doing much with that.
And you will never get me to believe that any GM, don’t care who he is, doesn’t care about his legacy.
Also still believe it’s too early to tell how this particular GM will be evaluated. Trying to turn the franchise around – both in perception from the days of the MLB laughingstock, to trying to build a contender with owners who can’t afford the team, remains to be seen.
Don’t think SA will be here longer than his one term contract anyway. Let’s see how he leaves this team for the next GM, which should be inheriting a club that’s in better shape going forward – from the payroll on the big club right down to the minor league system. At least that’s the plan I’m seeing, reading between the lines.
Right on cue, you prove your lack of reading skills, make up crap that was never said and continue with your juvenile rants that make no sense.
And you will never get me to believe that any GM, don’t care who he is, doesn’t care about his legacy”
Ask Sandy.. I am sure he’ll give you some educated words and you’d fall for it and this you know what? he’s right, if a GM keeps losing, it doesn’t matter… SMH
Not one time i think he’s used the word championship in his tenrue as a mets GM. Which were the first words pronounced by cashen when he was building the 80′s mets
Here I completely agree with Alex, Kay. It bugs me to no end that I never hear Alderson talk World Series or Championship in the ten or so interviews I’ve seen him give. If there is evidence to the contrary, I want to know about it.
If he’s never uttered the requisite important words and phrases, then WTH not?!
Talk is cheap, we’ve heard those words in the past and it hasn’t happened in a long time. Semantics, wording, etc…
Happened just 6 years ago Kay….
Or do you suffer from short term memory loss?
Really? They won the WS 6 years ago, sorry all this time I thought it was 1986? That’s funny I remember the team going into the playoffs with a depleted starting rotation.
Wow your short term memory really is shot…Lay off the weed sweetie!
Here is a reminder of what was said….
RZ – “I never hear Alderson talk World Series or Championship”
Kay – “we’ve heard those words in the past and it hasn’t happened in a long time”
Guess what Kay…Don’t sweat it because with Sandy running things it we be an even longer time before it happens again!
Way Longer than from now to 86, 88, 99, 2000, and 2006!
Maybe you can get together with Tagee and write up the “In the last 50 Years” post you can recite everyday for a year to pass the time…
Nice retort – dollface and selective memory, you must buy the better weed.
A few good years sprinkled in here and there, sure, but this organization has not won a title of World Champion since 1986.
No it hasn’t and it sure has nothing to do with the direction Omar or Phillips took at all does it?
There was an 11 year gap from 88-99 with nary a playoff to be had.
Those were the year’s Cashen’s minions ran the team. You know the guys who supposedly made us so good via building from within that this time around is supposed to make us into some sort of Dynasty?
Did it make us a Dynasty back then?
There is really only one team that has made the WS and not been a one and done…
I wonder what philospohy they employ?
Bet it looks a lot more like Omar than Sandy!
But you want to relive the glory days of 86 feel free. I was there! I saw what they did and how they got there.
Cashen never gave up on the team halfway through the season the way this guy has…
Sandy has done it twice!
Yet again, you go on and on about things I never said, was not in my post and just rant for the sake of it – is your life that shallow?
No need to give me a history lesson – I am not new. I was around for the first WS, the 2nd WS and subsequent failings.
Doesn’t make sense. When something doesn’t make sense, it’s often b/c it’s not true.
SA priority might be saving this team for the Wilpons, but you’ll never convince me he doesn’t care about winning.
I’m confused…wouldn’t any GM hired by the Mets while the Wilpons are majority owners of the team be working for the Wilpons? Do you even realize what you say sometimes? You can change the GM, but if the owners are demanding a cut in payroll you’ll see much of the same.
“Alex68 August 7, 2012 at 1:03 pm .
but I’m losing my faith in SA and his comrades”
Gorge, well, Since day one when sabergooners in this site when nuts when he was hired i have been skeptical.”
And of course your the picture of objectivity, NOT!
I think they definitely have to do something. You can put a Valdespin in the outfield as a project if you have two other reliable outfielders. Right now the entire outfield is a project.
I think you can consider Baxter and Hairston part of the future as bench/platoon players…
as long as Sandy is willing to pay for Hairston i agree with you….but you know how the mets are.
I don’t think it’s his call.
Spin is no OF, he has no arm plus as stated he is not a patient hitter at the plate, he has not bought into the work the count montra that Mets have done this year plus, again as stated every time he starts, other than 2B against Padres, he struggles.
I was hoping for Duda in LF as he learns the position in AAA, maybe go play winter ball to continue his fielding and hitting development because when right he is a great power bat to have.
I think that Capt Kirk after healing can be an option for CF, maybe he can join Duda and play winter ball to wk on his plate discipline.
The BIG problem for Mets is with Bay not producing where do you get the RH bat to balance the LH heavy lineup?
Time for a miracle from SA. We shall see.
The Mets certainly need to do something, however, there are three major issues
1) The Mets do not consider themselves contenders going into 2013 so money will not be spent.
2) The Mets do not have any prospects that project to be MLB starters in the high minors.
3) The current young players (Kirk, Duda, Valdespin) each have their own major flaws which likely cannot be overcome with “more experience”
Unless one of the struggling prospects can turn into an eventual above average starter, they will need to be creative through the trade market or be willing to spend
Your #2 sort of flies in the face of “being creative in the trade market.” They can trade a low-end prospect for a warm body, sure. But if all you’re looking for is a warm body, Fred Lewis is already under contract.
I was thinking on the lines of trading one of their pitching prospects for a hitting prospect to balance it out. We have lots of pitching prospects like Pill, Montero, Fulmer, Mazzoni, Tapia etc.
Package Kirk and one of our pitching prospects for a hitting prospect to give us something…
I was advertising this “Kirk package” back at the All Star game time, as I could feel Kirk’s trade value spiraling down the drain.
I’m still behind making a very reasonable effort to obtain Justin Upton, and I’m very curious what the Marlins plans are with Stanton. They have several years before he hits FA, so I’m sure they’ll keep re-upping him in arby until such time occurs when they receive a can’t miss trade package in return. Or the SEC drops their inquiries.
The problem with Upton (other than his inflated Arizona stats) are that he will become a FA in 2016, which means you would only be trading for 3 guaranteed years of him.
Given that 2013 will not be a playoff year, you have a 2 year window with Upton, whereas if you acquire an MLB ready prospect or a rookie, the window is much greater.
Now obviously Upton is much less of a risk, but will also cost more than the Mets are willing to give and Arizona would be foolish to trade him anyway…
Stanton is a different story and I would give up anyone for him, but the Marlins can’t be that stupid right?
You never know what Loria is going to do.
Stanton….don’t make me dream, Oleo.
Well, I don’t think Upton’s Arizona stats are as much an issue as some because I think his speed and defense are his virtue, and the solid bat he provides is icing on the cake. But your point is valid.
As far as the Marlins………do you have to ask?
The Marlins sure are dumb, but no-one in their right mind could trade Stanton.
I would trade Harvey, Nimmo, Flores, Duda and Mejia for him right now…
Well, they have a track record. Stanton will likely make more in arby per year than Delgado’s AAV on that contract they dumped on the Mets six years ago. Different brass, I know, but a bunch of writers had them shopping everybody last week. Who knows?
“Stanton is a different story and I would give up anyone for him, but the Marlins can’t be that stupid right?”
You forgot how they traded Miguel Cabrera (who was about Stanton’s age when he was dealt) for garbage like Mike Rabelo, Cameron Maybin & Andrew Miller? YES, they can be that stupid.
This.
They contended for most of this season and you already proclaim they wont contend in 2013?
Is this front office building or using a wrecking ball? Three years and still no better than 2010?
Nice!
The FA cupboard is pretty bare, unless you think Melky is going to be worth even half the salary he’s going to get. Nick Swisher would be great for this team.
Actually, there might be some interesting OF options out there, provided they don’t all re-up with their current squads.
Sure, I’d take Cody Ross for a spin and I think Bourn is vastly underrated, but his AS appearance will drive his price up to where he’s overrated, I think. Melky and BJ Upton are the only two outfield FA’s under 30 (unless you’re interested in Delmon Young, which I categorically am not), so you’re likely not going find any answers via FA, only stop-gaps.
Unless a trade is made for Upton, or one of these stop-gaps plays well enough to allow for Kirk/Duda/Valdespin to figure it out, w’ll be back in the same place next year.
Pence is 30, I’d at least check to see what he wants. If he’s willing to take a 4 year deal, he might be worth slightly over paying for.
Not a FA.
Unless the Giants just extended him and I hadn’t heard about it (possible since I’ve been following NASA a lot closer than MLB recently), he’s arbitration eligible, just like Melky. I don’t expect the Giants to keep both of them.
Maybe not, but Pence will have to be traded. No chance he just gets non-tendered. Maybe some team overpays for Melky and the Giants get the picks. You may be right about the Giants likely not keeping both, but I’ll bet you a buffalo nickel it’s Melky who’s gone.
I think they should start with a Fleet footed CF. Take care of that position and need power in one of the other two spots.
your dead on, we need a leadoff hitter and a power bat
You keep asking Joe about where the money went that was ‘saved’ by not signing Reyes.
The money went to help pay the bills so the Wilpons could hold onto this team.
Until the Mets are solvent again (nothing indicates that will be anytime soon), or until the Wilpons sell (which doesn’t even seem like a remote possibility right now), all we can expect is more of the same.
Sure wish we had owners that could actually afford to own a MLB team.
Sad but true. This is why I find myself envying the Dodgers and their new ownership right now. They paid $2B for the team and are not afraid to take on salary to improve the team. That is what a real MLB owner does. He looks to improve the team any way he can.
What does our sorry excuse for an owner do? NOTHING! He invests his money with a scam artist and now claims that he’s broke and has the FO shopping at Walmart for players rather than Macy’s. I wish MLB would do the right thing and take the team away from the Wilpons and sell it to someone who actually can afford to put a good product on the field. Mark Cuban for Mets owner sounds pretty good to me right now!
Srt you are so far off the beaten track it isn’t funny!
They didn’t save any money by not signing reyes that could then be used to pay off bills!
They didn’t MAKE money by not signing Reyes so your statement really is so off key I can’t even begin to describe how bad that thinking is!
All they managed to do by ot signing reyes is not spend more money than they were already on the hook for it did nothing to help them pay the money they WERE on the hook for already!
Well I don’t think they need to add 3 OFers but they do need to make one solid move for a RH Hitting Power bat that plays the OF who can hit more than just LHPs.
Hairston has done well this year vs Lefties but is practically useless vs Righties (he has hit them better of late)
As for Duda and Kirk they are both going through the same thing, Came much later for Duda because he didn’t play the entire 2011 season and by the time they could figure him out the season was over. What Hurt Duda most was having Ike struggle with him. Duda’s future as an OF is at LF not RF. He doesn’t have the speed to get to the ball quick enough in RF and that means doubles that becomes triples. He’s better off in LF where when he gets to the ball the fact it’s a short throw to 3rd will stop runners from taking that extra base.
Kirk can play any OF position well and if he sorts out his hitting and plugs that high inside hole in his swing he can be a good player. the K’s while too many are expected for a rookie.
As far as Valdespin is concerned if they really thought he could play there he should have played there before he got on the bus to Citifield! Just more proof that this FO is running things by the seat of thier pants and merely guessing at everything hoping they get lucky and hit a HR that makes them look smart! which leads us to thier other GREAT WAIT, HOPE and PRAY move….
Jason Bay – He’s done even if he’s not done for his career he is done in regard for us waiting for4 him to find himself. He left himself somewhere else in the country and the best way for him to find it is to tour that country and hope he meets up with his bat somewhere along the way! He is not suited to our stadium, he is not reliable as far as staying healthy is concerned and truth be told I think he lost something in his vision from the first concussion he sufferred and is simply not seeing the ball at all! Time to let him go, I wish him well, no one works harder and he’s a very nice guy but a baseball player? Not anymore!
If we do manage to get that RH Power bat to play the OF the other two positions will work themselves out. It will also help the lineup stay balanced so the5re is no need to play the B team vs Lefties and a good RHB with pop other than Wright will serve Duda and Ike better at the plate too.
I will say this though…If they have any notion of playing Flores in the OF they had better start playing him there starting now!
Cause what they are trying with Valdespin is very uinfair to him, he has enough on his plate dealing with what the MLB pitching is going to do to him he really doesn’t need the distractions of learning a new position in the MLB.
Thats what we have a MiL system for!
I agree – Make one solid move for RH power bat(I’m thinking someone like Swisher), and then have Kirk, Spin, Duda, and Den Dekker battle it out in ST for the other 2 OF spots.
Lots of good points here.
Only exception is I don’t think the FO is ‘guessing’ as much as trying to plug in holes w/o spending any money. That I hang on the Wilpons, which I already commented on here.
Agree 100% about finding a good RH bat for the OF.
Agree 100% about parting ways with Bay, money be damned. It’s a sunk cost anyway.
Well are you sure it’s the Wilpons who are to blame for the lack of money spending?
I mean really sure that owners who spent tons of money in every decade since the 90′s are really the ones who changed the way they do business?
Or is it much more likely that it is Sandy who is insisting on this approach which is the approach he has had ever since he took over complete control of the A’s back in the 90′s?
Was SD a big spender when he was there? Did thier owner also limit what Sandy could spend? Were they in such dire straights that they had to force Sandy to not spend a penny?
In 2005 (when Sandy came onto run them) They had a payroll of 62.88 Million 17th in the league. By the time he left in 2009 they had a Payroll of 42.79 Mil Only team with a lower Payroll were the Marlins that year!
Sandy has been gone from there for years but yet they still have the lowest payroll of any team. So even if you believe he was brought there to get the finances in order and make the team profitable then why hasn’t it become healthy enough to get the players they need to compete three years after he left?
Sorry SRT but I don’t buy the Wilpon exscuse for our lack of spending it doesn’t fit thier history nor does thier being broke fit the facts as no one can identify where they lost money from anything. They MADE money off Madoff not lost which is why they got sued to get some back! Whatever you think they may have lost in accounts they still had was way offset by what they gained from the accounts they cashed in on!
But this DON’T SPEND approach has followed Sandy wherever he has gone!
It seemed to work in Oakland for him but that has as much to do with the team and Minor leagues that decades of sucking had built plus, he inherited and all of it’s big tradable HR hitting juiced up Stars to get even more and still has yet to build a team that wins a WS, can compete with the yankees and draw a crowd that is able to support even AVERAGE salary in the MLB.
San Diego is not better after all he did there and we are no better or further along in the competitive aspects nor the Attendance draw We are drawing on;y 115 more people per game so far this year which has to make up for 20 Million dollars worth of payroll we didn’t cut, Basically Bay’s salary here!
He failed to sign half his draft picks, Would Wilpon tell him not to sign the guys he picked?
It just doesn’t fit Wilpon but it all sure fits right in line with the way Sandy does business everywhere he has been.
And his attempt to fill by not spending really has been limited because he is forced to fill in with guys drafted and acquired by a GM we fired for whatever reason you want to name!
And when he runs out what will he be forced to do? SPEND?
Will he do that? His History says no!
So the seat of the pants is far worse than trying to fill without spending money IMO.
I mean Harvey is not ready then ready, We are Buyers, no we are not, it all points to one thing.
They have no commitment to any decision for more than a day or two which is the key sign that they really have no idea what they are doing and just trying everything just as a chicken without a head runs in 10 different directions hoping to find his way!
‘Well are you sure it’s the Wilpons who are to blame for the lack of money spending?’
Without a doubt, IMO.
The Wilpons had no problem spending money on this team when they bought out Doubleday. Kept increasing every year. Thought they were solvent with all their investments with Madoff. Yeah….not even. Once they were shown the reality of their situation when he was arrested, all bets were off. Or all money dried up. They own this team for a hobby, not to make money. I really wish they would have sold, instead of ‘preserving the legacy for their family’. Wilpons aren’t going to dip into their pockets to keep this team solvent. The only other option was reduce payroll by historical numbers and try and field a MLB team with that money. Given the fact that they had to wait for some money to come off the books (Perez, Castillo) and are still waiting (Bay, Johan), I expect to see more of the patchwork type of team we saw this year.
If you’re talking about a couple of MIL one way or the other for some better pieces, that might be on SA’s head but other than that…..the Wilpon’s Mets are broke. Proof of that is the minority investors, just for starters. Until they get out of the red with this team – or sell (which is my fantasy), expect more of the same.
In light of that, I don’t see the payroll being much more than it was this year.
“Without a doubt”
Have anything to prove that or is this just wishful speculation on your part?
They made money with Madoff. Unless you can prove that they needed the money from Madoff to run the team (which is not the case at all!) your really just HOPING it’s the Wilpons and your going to realize in time exactly who is to blame for the lack of spending…
And it’s the GM who has never spent ANYWHERE he has been, Has cut salary EVERYWHERE he has been….Regardless of who the owner was or what his financial position was at the time!
That’s not totally true either in SD or Oakland. He raised payroll in SD until his last season when ownership changed hands, he cut it an then quit. He cut it fom 69 in 06 to 58 in 07 but then went back up to 73 in 08. It went up from 55 in 04 to 63 in 05 his first season.
SD Payroll
2009: $ 43,734,200
2008: $ 73,677,616
2007: $ 58,110,567
2006: $ 69,896,642
2005: $ 63,290,833
2004: $ 55,384,833
Oakland had a top 5 payroll every year under him and it was tops in 91 or 92 then new ownership forced him to cut it in 1995 after Haas died and the team was sold, so none of your Sandy cuts everywhere he’s been is true and if you don’t think the Wilpons are not or did not have serious finanial trouble both with the Mets and Sterling, I got the Verrazano at a nice discount rate for you. You don’t take out loans and sell 200 million worth of team shares if you’re not having financial issues. And in case you didn’t notice they weren’t exactly letting Omar do a whole lot his last 2 years compared to his first 4 when he spent like a drunken sailor.
Well we all know your bullshit of what you count as Sandy’s work in Oakland…
So lets avoid that fornow and tell everyone who he got to increase that Salary those years you claim he did (never more than 14 Mil which could just as easily been a year where a lot of guys got good Arb deals!)
So tell us all who he got for that measly 10-15 Mil increase?
and Why he gutted that team every year after increasing payroll?
Yep, you got nothing just as I thought. Your spreading your bullshit thick as usual and as usual spin it so it looks like I’m the one spreading it. You just said He cut payroll everywhere he’s been but as you can see in SD he didn’t cut it, it actually increased 3 times in 5 years until he left after an ownership change. Now you’re saying it COULD be a year when arbitration drove it up but you don’t know if it was or it wasn’t. Didn’t stop you from spewing your typical bullshit. Just as I thought.
Top 5 payroll in Oakland for the majority of his tenure I guess that was arbitration too. It Couldn’t have been that they had best rotation in the league now could it. Or maybe, McGwire, Canseco, Rickey, Dave Parker, etc… Nah !!! Hey I’m sure Joey D will believe you.
Yeah we have proven over and over whenever Fonzie says you got nothing he is just admitting he has nothing himself!
Otherwise you would have answered the question and told everyone who he spent the 10 million of increase on!
The MEASLY 10-14 Million which he spent this year on that awful Bullpen you love so much!
Your the one who has nothing! What I said was 100% accurate…When he got there he had the 17th payroll in the league and when he left it was the second lowest!
Yeah that’s what I thought. Spin Doctor at his best. Can’t prove your fallacies so of course you try and bullshit the world saying I love the bullpen. That’s what you do when you got nothing
Proof is in the pudding. Just showed he didn’t lower payroll until new ownership took over. Top 5 in Oakland. Yeah he lowered payroll everywhere he’s been. Once again I’ve proven you wrong. Can’t wait for you next line of bullshit. What’s it gonna be next I love Jason Bay? Lol. You’re such a fkn jerk off.
Typical fonzie….
When he has nothing all he has left is to accuse the guy with the facts of having nothing….
Didn’t work before Fonzie but I guess with your limited brain potential its the best we can expect….
Here is the facts
2005 Salary was 62.88M
2009 Salary was 42.79M
The highest salary they had during his Tenure was 73.67M Just 10 Mil more than when he started and that could be the result of two players getting arbitration!
But your too afraid to show us who he got because you know I’m right!
SD Payroll
2009: $ 43,734,200
2008: $ 73,677,616
2007: $ 58,110,567
2006: $ 69,896,642
2005: $ 63,290,833
2004: $ 55,384,833
So nothing that happened in the middle of his tenure counts right? Not in Metsies warped world. He raised payroll when he got there as you can see and raised it 3 years out of the first 4 until Jeff Moorad and partners bought a team they couldn’t afford and they cut it almost in half and then guess what Sandy left. You still have no answer for the top 5 payroll in Oakland cause all you spew is bullshit just like saying the Wilpons are flushed with cash is just more of your bullshit. Sooner or later you have to get tired of being exposed for a BS Artist. No one is buying your bullshit except maybe Joey. Nobody else is buying it.
Not if it was a contractural obligation to raise some player’s pay or a mere arbitration award that increased the payroll that was inherited and not something Sandy himself decided to do…NO it doesn’t count!
Can you prove where the increase went to and prove it went to someone Sandy signed as opposed to some player already under contract who had a built in raise or some player who came up for arbitration and Sandy had no choice but to pay it or lose him?
Thats the question I asked you and you have been running from it ever since!
Nope it wasn’t arb raises that increased payroll. They added Woody Williams, Dave Roberts, Darrel May, Mark Loretta and resigned Hoffman and Klesko in 2005 his 1st year.
Traded for David Wells, Traded for current Met Chris Young, Traded 480K salary of Xavier Nady to us for 14.5 mil of Mike Cameron for 2 yrs, traded for Chan Ho Park and his 15 mil, traded for Vinny Castilla, Doug Mirabelli. Signed Mike Piazza, Doug Brocail and Shawn Estes. 13 other FA’s and trades for guys making 1 mill or less 2006 his 2nd year.
Traded for Milton Bradley, Josh Bard and Russell Branyon. Signed Greg Maddux 10 mil per 2 yrs, signed Marcus Giles, Brians little brother 3.25 mill, resigned Brian Giles 9 mil per. Only one arb raise Jake Peavy 2.5 mil to 4.7. 13 others signed or traded for 1 mil or less. 2007.
Signed Mike Barrett 3.5, Tad Iguchi 3.8, Randy Wolf 4.75, Traded for Jim Edmonds 8 mil. Arb raises, Peavy 4.7 to 6.5, Khalil Green, 2.25 to 4.5, Chris Young 600K to 2.6. 15 players signed or traded 1 mil or less. 2008.
The only year when payroll was slashed and no players were brought in with any salary was his last year there in 2009. Peavy 11 Mil from 6.5 in Arb, traded to Whitesox. Brian Giles retired saving 6.5 of 9.6 mil of his salary. Big salaries replaced by homegrown kids and prospects traded for.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7797028/san-diego-padres-owner-john-moores-hires-bankers-sell-team
Actually I was wrong. Moorad only bought 49% of the team in 2009. Principal owner John Moores is the one who ordered payroll to be slashed. Messy divorce for him too. Sandy hasn’t cut everywhere he’s been like you falsely claimed he was ordered to do so.
By the way, a group lead by Phil Mickleson has apaprently bought the team for around $800 million.
How the hell are the San Diego Padres worth $800 million?
Every knowledgeable source I go to says sports franchises, especially baseball, are probably the worst investment you can make.
I thought that sale fell through Donal.
Never mind. It was selling his remaining interests to Moorad that fell through.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
“They added Woody Williams, Dave Roberts, Darrel May, Mark Loretta and resigned Hoffman and Klesko in 2005 his 1st year”
And ALL of them total raised salary by 7 Mil total!
HAHAHAHA WoW he must a big spender!
I Bet when you want to impress a woman on how big a spender you are you take her to McDonalds and use only ONE by one get one free coupon to impress her!
ROFLMAO!
I’d laugh too if I was just exposed as a liar. I don’t care if they brought in Mo, Larry and Curly. The fact that they didn’t cut payroll is all I needed to show you lied yet again. Same thing in Oakland. The article tells exactly who mandated payroll cuts.
HAHAHA And once again en Fonzie’s facts prove the point of the guy he is feebly attempting to argue with better than the one he is trying to make he runs back to the Liar Liar Pants on Fire defense!
Too figgin predictable!
He got all those players and spent a grand total of 7 Mil and from this you wish to make the claim Sandy will spend money when there are no limitations placed on him!
Jeez I hope you never get caught in a paper bag you will die and we will have no one left to laugh at!
No the only thing I’m convinced is you were lying when you said he cut payroll everywhere he’s been. Instead of admitting you’re wrong which you don’t have the guts to do, you run away from the facts and spin it to “he only added 7 million”. That’s not the point. Point is you are always full of shit.
Adding 7 million or whatever he added is not cutting which is what you claimed. You claimed he cut everywhere he’s been and you were exposed. Exposed by 3 dfferent people in one thread. Myself, SRT and Sane. That’s 3, inning over.
Metsie, if you have read everything there is to read about the state of the Mets finances since the off season – and you’re still not convinced they’re broke and that’s why 50 MIL was cut and they’re not spending – I doubt anything I could add to a heap load of articles on the subject would convince you.
Srt please post the article that showed the Wilpons lost money on anything but the attendance!
Please I woud love all the they are to blamers to show a shred of proof the Wilpons are actually broke.
Show they lost a penny to madoff.
Please show us and stop assuming because they had a slight issue that they might lose money that they actually did!
Sure they lost some account but less in those accoutns than they made off others which is why they got sued!
No one has produced on shred of evidence EVER that the Wilpons are broke, just they they have loans and debts to pay which are no more that they were when they took the loan in the first place!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/28/us-madoff-wilpon-idUSTRE57R3KY20090828
“The Wilpon family, led by Mets owner Fred Wilpon, lost about $700 million because of Madoff, according to Erin Arvedlund, author of “Too Good to Be True,” published earlier this month.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/19/us-madoff-mets-idUSBRE82I0HI20120319
“The owners of the New York Mets agreed to pay $162 million to settle a lawsuit by the trustee seeking money for the victims of Bernard Madoff’s fraud, a deal that eases pressure on the owners of the cash-strapped baseball team.”
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7346675/new-york-mets-received-40-million-bank-loan
“The financially strapped owners of the New York Mets obtained a $40 million “bridge loan” from Bank of America in recent weeks to continue operations until minority shares of the team can be sold, the team acknowledged in a statement Monday.”
“Major League Baseball previously loaned the team $25 million this year, which has yet to be repaid.”
“Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said last week that the organization lost $70 million this year.”
Yes, the loans have been repaid, by selling off parts of the team that the Wilpons had been reluctant to part with in the past. Further signifying financial hardships.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/mets-hire-firm-that-bankrupt-rangers-used-1.3433081
“A firm like CRG, which is a financial advisory firm for the distressed entity, sees if there are ways to cut expenses down, ways to increase revenues, ways to negotiate with creditors to get extensions and get some relief on interest rates. Things of that nature, with the eye toward avoiding a formal bankruptcy proceeding if at all possible. ”
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mets_crap_fla_farm_team_lRXoxZSeP8xZ4Lh0qkCCVI
“The Mets will have one fewer minor league affiliates next season.
In a move designed to trim costs, the team yesterday announced the elimination of its Port St. Lucie affiliate in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League.”
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mets_lay_off_percent_of_non_player_IYTBmJgbFoNytTfq7qONwO
“The cash-strapped Mets have trimmed nearly 10 percent of non-player staff, including business, clubhouse and scouting personnel, The Post has learned”
http://deadspin.com/5886867/how-bernie-madoffs-money-ran-the-mets
“The Mets chose not to pay their premiums on insurance for injured players, instead putting that money into a Madoff account, and pay players directly from the returns.
And then there’s the famous Bobby Bonilla contract. Instead of paying him the $5.9 million owed on the last year of his deal, the Mets bought Bonilla out—and agreed to pay him $1.2 million annually from 2011 to 2035. It’s not the only deferred contract the Mets handed out, and now we know why: they were investing that long-term money with Madoff. Wilpon and Katz figured the Madoff money would cover the contracts and make them a tidy profit.”
Is that enbough for you Metsie? A quick google search of “NY Mets Financial Trouble” will produce all of this wonderful information.
Well sane, if they lost money then why did they get sued by Madoff Victims?
To take even more money from a fellow loser in Madoff?
Lets see how that would work, Hey you lost 700 Mil we all lost more so we will sue you for 1 Billion dollars….Yeah that sounds logical!
Reuters was speculating based on a third source but nothing to do with the actual financial records from Wilpon or Madoff!
Yes they agreed to pay 162 Million a few years from now! (so they haven’t lost a penny yet!.) Terms of the agreement says they might even GET money from the clawback if Picard gets enough money back from the other winners! So you still can’t say they lost a penny yet as they have made zero payments to the Madoff trustees as of today!
“”Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said last week that the organization lost $70 million this year.”
Yes the ORGANIZATION not Wilpon! Wilpon did not pay a penny of that debt merely the interest on a 4 month loan to bridge the gap until they sold the team shares.
Yep they hired a consultant to avoid a potential bankruptcy, since they won thier case vs Madoff they didn’t need to file for bankruptcy!
Yes they got rid of an affiliate, But they had more affiliates than the other teams and thats not as sign they lost money thats a sign they saved money!
I won’t go down the rest of your links they are all about the MET finances not the Wilpons.
‘I won’t go down the rest of your links they are all about the MET finances not the Wilpons.’
You’re making my head hurt, Metsie. Sane went ahead and did the research for you that I rwouldn’t, simply b/c it was readily available and you are inclined not to believe it anyway.
No one is talking about the Wilpons. No one cares if the Wilpons are broke. Just about every one of my comments say ‘Wilpon’s Mets’ or ‘Mets’.
The Mets are broke. The Wilpons aren’t going into their own pockets to subsidize them.
Therefore, until they (meaning the Mets) are in the red again – or the Wilpons sell – expect more of the same of what we’re seeing. Reduced payroll, cost saving measures, etc. etc.
Sane went and posted links to SPECULATION on what the Mets may have lost but those SPECULATIVE reports have all proved to be dead wrong!
If they had lost 700 Mil then they would not have been sued to get money back UNLESS they made more than the 700 Million your claiming was a loss!
SO yes there is a 700 Mil loss entered in the ledger right after a 1 Billion Gain that they were sued for!
If I give you 1 Billion dollars and then take 700 Mil away fro you are you more broke or less broke?
Truth of the matter is they made money off Madoff and could conceivably make more if Picard does a better job clawing back money from the other winners than he did on Wilpon!
Just about all their operating $$ for the Mets was tied up in those Madoff accounts. The ledgers may have shown a profit over the years but given the fact that the Wilpons are also included now in the clawback victims fund, that sort of points to money lost.
Also….all that money they had tied up with Madoff? Gone.
Like I said previously Metsie….no sense going down this road again. I or anyone else for that matter, isn’t likely to change your mind on the fact that the Mets are broke. There is article after article after article. Rubin did a very good job for instance on his many articles.
Their operating money was in the Madoff accounts because they were depositing them there!
But they also took them out before the fund was exposed which is why they got sued for being WINNERS (not losers) in Madoff!
Comon Srt your no idiot, you have to know that if they lost money on Madoff that they wouldn’t and couldn’t be sued to get more money from them!
No, they didn’t.
The alleged ‘profit’ shown was nothing more than supposed more money made/taken out then originally put in for investments. As I said previously, the fact that the Wilpons are also included in the clawback victims suit as well kind of debunks the fact that they didn’t lose any money.
Where exactly did you get the idea that they pulled all their multi millions out before Madoff was arrested? Holy Cahoots…..if that were really true I’d have to believe that billion dollar lawsuit would be justified.
I’d like to ask….are you getting your facts only from articles printed here on that whole fiasco? If yes, you might want to take a look around across the blog sphere on the many articles that were printed about the state of finances for the Mets.
“more money made/taken out then originally put in for investments.”
Yep they made money!
Thats my point!
They obviously made more than they supposedly lost otherwise there would be no lawsuit just a reduction in what they could get back if Picard got all the money back!
So they MADE money not lost money!
They got sued because they made more money than they claim to have lost!
If they had not then there would have been no lawsuit at all just a statement of they lost less than they actually had listed on thier account!
They made at least 162 Million more than they lost which means they didn’t really lose money whan all is said and done!
Yes they might even get some more money back! But that kind of depends on is Picard gets all the other winners to fork over more money!
In the end they might not have to pay a penny so the worst case scenario is they broke even which is not losing money now is it?
Ah Metsie my friend….dog with a bone.
I really didn’t want to go round and round about this b/c I highly doubt either one is changing their mind.
There is no way the Wilpons suddenly decided they’d no longer spend money on a team they’re desperately trying to hold onto. There is no way they’re tried to hand the GM some 50 million dollars over the off season and he said ‘no thanks’. When something doesn’t make sense, it’s usually b/c it isn’t true. Let me just finish up with from everything I’ve read, from many who did extensive digging on this subject, I’m convinced the Mets are broke.
Let’s see what happens with this team going forward.
“When something doesn’t make sense, it’s usually b/c it isn’t true.”
My point entirely!
If they lost money it makes no sense they would be sued!
Makes no sense!
An Owner who has spent plenty and whenever a GM requested it for over a decade and a half does not turn around and say NO MORE SPENDING, CUT PAYROLL to Pirate proportions!
Makes no sense!
A GM who has a history of cutting spending wherever he has gone regardless of if the Owner told him to or not as being the cause of the cuts?
MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
Metsie — Folks who are losing money or have already lost a bundle do get sued. Not only is it a play against the current or past conditions, it’s a play against future possibilities. Not complicated, not inscrutable. Ask a good lawyer and you’ll be surprised.
Good job Sane! Proof is in the pudding! The Met are not flushed with cash like this idiot claims. He asked for proof, you gave proof and he’s still dancing around the truth.. More Bullshit All The Time. That’s a nice jingle for Metsie. It never gets old with this fool.
Says he king of the Liar Liar pants on fire defense! ROFMLAO!
Your 46 in dog years right?
You have an owner who’s to cheap to spend money and front office that is too cheap to give up minor leaguers for top talent. It’s the late seventies again.
Not that I think he’s a shoe-in, but why is there virtually no discussion of Baxter. He’s no star, but he’s made a few excellent plays in left, has a good arm, and seems as if he could turn out to be a very good bat.
He isn’t a must to start, but we surely could do worse in right field, no?
They have too many 4th OFs and guys still learning their position. You need a true starter who can play the field and produce offensively night in and night out.
Ok, Donal, but nobody in MLB “produces offensively night in and night out,” save one or two exceptions.
I mean can give you consistent production. Not 1 good month and then gets shut down when the league figures him out.
An actual starting outfielder. Not some guy we have out there for 140 or so games because we have no better option.
Food for thought…everyone has fallen in love with Hairston this year but it’s easy to stand out offensively when you are playing on a team that is (for the most part) underperforming offensively. Hairston is nothing more than a backup. He’s having a great year and is still unable to lock down a starting role…that says a lot about him.
You’re right Mitch, and the fact is he is barely, barely competent defensively.
This team needs to find a way to trade Johan. As much as it hurts to say, this team can not afford to pay one player 20+ million a year and expect to improve the roster in the off season. I would take a bag of magic beans for him as long as most of his salary is picked up in the deal.
So wait, we shaved off more than $75 million from the payroll one year, spend about $15 million all year, now you wanna get rid of johan santana to shaved off even more payroll to do exactly what??? go and sign more crap???
I am not a fan of Sandy A myself, but I do feel like his hands have been tied by ownership. Johan is not the player he once was and this team is not in the same financial state it was when the deal was signed. If this team is going to compete there needs to be some holes filled. The only way to do that is to shave off salary. 20+ million is way to much for this team to spend on a player that only plays every 5th day. If Bay could be moved Id be all for that but there is zero value there for any team.
$75 million in payroll?
Now I know why you aren’t a numbers guy.
You want to cut more salary? That’s your solution, getting rid of Johan? That fixes the outfield? Someone’s knocking at the door…somebody’s ringing the bell… do me a favor and open the door… and let him in….
So you’re convinced Santana is done?
Not I.
I am not saying that Johan is washed up all I am saying is that this team needs to make some changes. Johan is still a very good pitcher but not the same guy that made hitters look bad while pitching for the Twins. The outfield and bullpen need to be revamped along with a new contract for D Wright. Please tell me where this money is going to come from?????
I don’t know about some of you, but one outfielder I’d look into trading for is Jacoby Ellsbury. Been a huge Ellsbury fan for years and I have a suspicion that Boston will put him on the trade market this winter (almost sent him to Texas at the deadline). While he has suffered some unfortunate bad luck of injuries the last few seasons, if last season isn’t an indication, when healthy, Ellsbury can really jumpstart this team out of the leadoff spot. I highly doubt anybody here wouldn’t want to see Ellsbury and Tejada at the top of the order.
Good player extremely injury prone missed nearly “2 full seasons out of 5″. Plus Boston is gonna want a handsome ransom for him not to mention his agent is Scott Boras. Ellsbury will also soon be available for free agency and Boras will look for ridiculous money and we the New York Cheapies cut payroll now we dont add…
And personally I dont want another player from Boston after this Bay fiasco…Jacoby will come here and turn into Grady Sizemore and never play a game.
A- Extremely injury prone? If anything, Ellsbury has suffered freak injuries (crashing into Beltre, trying to break up a double play) and as a result, became a victim of a series of unfortunate events. Big difference from being “extremely injury prone”.
B- We got Bay in his 30s. There’s something about players falling off in their 30s after signing a big contract. Boston had injury worries about Bay, which is why they were very weary in bringing him back. It seemed after he turned them down, it didn’t seem to faze them.
C- We have dealt with Boras clients before like, Carlos Beltran? I’m not worried about the Boras factor.
D- A sign & trade deal could happen in the offseason.
And was thier salary higher than when he took over when he left Fonzie?
YES or NO?
The fact it fluctuted due to contractual obligations and his usual purchase of fillers off the shitpile by a measly 10 Mil does not offset the fact that when he left they had a lower Salary and Mission Accomplished his job complete off to the next Team Liquidation!