Comments on: Forget About The Change-Up…Give Em The Heater http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html Thu, 23 May 2013 08:59:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: Fonzie13 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269918 Fonzie13 Tue, 07 Aug 2012 03:10:35 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269918 That’s absolutely true. They were concerned with Doc’s pitch counts so they wanted him to be more of a groundball pitcher and throw less pitches with all the strikeouts he was registering his first 3 years. Not too many people mention that but it’s absolutely true.

]]> By: mitch petanick http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269905 mitch petanick Tue, 07 Aug 2012 02:07:34 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269905 Thanks Seligman

]]> By: Metfan Lou http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269875 Metfan Lou Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:25:40 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269875 Well it sure came in handy when Robin Ventura charge the mound on him. Didn’t need to gop to the disabled list after taht one, maybe Ventura did.

]]> By: Markcomic1 http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269870 Markcomic1 Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:25:15 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269870 Just a note on Doc Gooden. It was not throwing a change up or trying to learn to throw a change up that ruined or hurt his arm. It was the fact that the overrated Mel Stottlemyre had him alter his natural over the top delivery to three quarters so that Doc could focus on not only throwing more change up’s ut more sinkers. He wanted to convert Doc from a strike out pitcher to a ground ball pitcher. Changing Docs mechanics in such away began to cause tears in his shoulder and thus a full tear etc. also of course the drugs were a part of his fall too.

I hate that it is not discussed almost at all that Mel Stottlemyre ruined Docs career with this. I remember it like it was yesterday. I also remember Doc had an issue find a grip for his change up that worked and that he felt comfortable with. Doc was basically a two pitch pitcher. Overpowering moving up in the zone fastball and that insane hammer 12/6 curve ball that turned batters legs into jelly.

]]> By: Donal http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269857 Donal Mon, 06 Aug 2012 20:00:54 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269857 I said possibly. Plus, Ryan played for some bad teams that killed his W%. I’m sure if he got run support from the Big Red Machine, his record would be a little different.

Besides, the Ryan thing was just to point out that he was a freak of nature and the way he “reportedly” did things is not necessarily the only, best, or even that good a way to develop a pitcher.

]]> By: Des http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269852 Des Mon, 06 Aug 2012 19:42:00 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269852 Donal — “First of all, let’s not break out Nolan Ryan comparisons just yet. the kid has 3 starts. He shouldn’t even be in the same sentence as possibly the greatest right hander of all time.

“Second, don’t act like Ryan was legendary from his first pitch. He had a great fastball but shaky control. He was a hard throwing reliever who couldn’t put where he wanted it, like Bobby Parnell.”

Sorry Donal, but your response has many problems.
You say let’s not compare Matt Harvey to Nolan Ryan. But you do in your entire 2nd paragraph, despite throwing in Bobby Parnell gratuitously.

Also Ryan’s career, despite his no-hitters, was not nearly as good as Seaver’s.
Seaver was 311-205, a .603 W-L%
Ryan was 324-292, a .526 W-L %
Seaver had a 2.86 career ERA
Ryan had a 3.19 career ERA
Seaver had a 1.121 career WHIP
Ryan had a 1.247 career WHIP

Ryan threw a lot more strikeouts but he also threw a lot more walks. His K/BB ratio was 2.04, while Seaver’s was 2.62.

]]> By: Donal http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269847 Donal Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:39:31 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269847 You’re using hindsight. Mike Pelfrey apparently has never learned a second pitch. How’s that working out?

And I have no idea what boxing has to do with any of this.

]]> By: nathan http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269846 nathan Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:34:31 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269846 I am uncertain why they did not abandon the plan once the Padres started teeing off. I know what they were trying to do but it just didn’t work. The short book on Harvey is probably fastball heavy and they attempted to catch them off gaurd with Change-ups. There are alot of problems with this but hey it’s one start and he still looked better than Pelf lol.

]]> By: nathan http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269845 nathan Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:31:15 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269845 Ryan was famous amoung fans for his fastball, he was infamous amoung hitters for his curveball. A pitcher can not live on a fastball alone.

]]> By: Mitch Petanick http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269843 Mitch Petanick Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:06:25 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269843 Thanks Russell…a little hazing for the new guy is perfectly acceptable ;-)

]]> By: Russell Zanca http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269841 Russell Zanca Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:57:34 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269841 LOL!

Mitch, I am sorry if I came off as rude. I want to welcome you to MMO. So far I think you are making terrific contributions, and I just want to say that there’s nothing wrong with disagreeing. I am here both to voice my opinion and to learn from others. I really enjoy the back-n-forth.

Looking forward to your articles.

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269840 Metsie Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:56:36 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269840 I just think that it pays to have consistency in coaching especially where Pitchers are involved.
the PC is pretty much a relationship based activity and knowing the signs of problems before they get too bad is a key.
If you want a player to be consistent he needs to follow a consistent message and not have different approaches messing with what got him there….

I have no problem with Viola and truth is I don’t have any name other than whoever it was that coached them to the point they deserved a promotion.

]]> By: Mitch Petanick http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269839 Mitch Petanick Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:51:40 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269839 I’m available :-)

]]> By: Even Flow http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269837 Even Flow Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:46:13 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269837 I throw Viola’s name out there because wherever he’s gone, the pitching staff he’s coached has been fantastic. Last year in Brooklyn, very good. This year in Savannah, very good. I wouldn’t wait 3 years for Viola to make his way up. I agree with your logic though on every one moving up. Bones should’ve gotten the nod as pitching coach coming into this season. Warthen can never keep a pitching staff together, and I find it repulsive that he’s still employed here after 4 1/2 horrible years.

]]> By: Russell Zanca http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269836 Russell Zanca Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:42:33 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269836 Of course, then you also have to explain why the 96 MPH FB to Alonso was jacked out of Petco.

Johnson says simply that his secondary pitches were not nearly effective, including slider and curve, in his third start.

I will respectively disagree that he was manipulated into throwing pitches counter to his own desires.

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269833 Metsie Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:25:10 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269833 Personally I would promote everyone up one level…(not sure of the names and too lazy to look them up)

But Wheeler just went to AAA he should take the AA coach that got him to pitch so well with him.
Harvey did well in AAA so bring his PC up with him.

I look at our current staff and other than Niese and Gee I don’t see anyone who actually needs a pitching coach to help them!
Dickey is his own Pitching coach and just about anyone can do what Warthen does for Santana who really just needs a set of outside Eyees to point things out so Santana can correct them on his own.

]]> By: Russell Zanca http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269832 Russell Zanca Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:24:04 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269832 I’ll drink to that.

]]> By: Even Flow http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269831 Even Flow Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:17:46 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269831 Frank Viola says hi.

]]> By: Metsie http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269830 Metsie Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:10:02 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269830 You know what the problem is Mitch?

We need a new Pitching coach!

]]> By: Metfan Lou http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/08/forget-about-the-change-up-give-em-the-heater.html#comment-269829 Metfan Lou Mon, 06 Aug 2012 17:06:22 +0000 http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=91549#comment-269829 The point is we let him go and he was a good boxer too. Good in a pinch when the benches cleared.

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