Comments on: Decision On Shutting Down Santana Looms Today

By: L.J. Phipps

L.J. Phipps — Tue, 21 Aug 2012 00:48:44 +0000

Go ahead and shut him down!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:47:55 +0000

I don’t think he is done either…
Just that the long Hiatus left him a little light in the stamina and arm strength dept and only consistent work will cure that.

Cy Young? He doesn’t have to be! But he could for a full season be more like he was before the No No than he has been after it.

Shutting him down now is not the answer, if Less work is the answer then let him pitch out of the pen where you control how and when he gets used and you can make a decision day to day if he’s up to it or not without impacting the rotation in any way.

By: Russell Zanca

Russell Zanca — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:09:28 +0000

I would be the last guy to know what’s really wrong with JS, but many people responding (not just today, but throughout the last month) are convinced he’s finished, washed up, and “doesn’t have it anymore.” Sorry, I’m not in this camp.

Will JS win the CY again? Will he ever be a 20-game winner? WHo knows!

There’s no good reason to suggest he doesn’t have another 4-5 strong seasons left in him. I hope he’ll finish his career as a Met, and show us what we can do in the playoffs. That’s my dreaming-out-loud for the day.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:58:48 +0000

I think it’s safe to say no one wants him in the pen, Just that no one really wants him on te mound evey 5 or even every 6 days if it means he has to go 5 inning plus and risk hurting the team and it’s chances to win because of fatigue.

and I’m not suggesting he stay in the pen next year here…He will go back to being a starter next season unless you find then that he can no longer go 6 Ining per game and then decid his starting days are over!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:54:54 +0000

Basically it’s a plan that instead of scheduling is a plan of picked use.

You pick the shots to use him and how long to use him for.

He still gets his work in only you can limit how much without impacting the rest of the team in a major way…

And imiting the damage should that day you see he hasn’t got it because you can pull him and go to whatever BP arm you might have gone to if Santana wasn’t called from the pen instead.

Removes the imperative to leave him out there the way you would a starter trying to get 5 innings no matter what he does, and you limit the innings based on how he feels not based on how many times he is scheduled to pitch.

It’s a temp move that lets Santana keep facing MLB batters, Help the team, Get some work in, and not so much work that you risk losing him for another year.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:50:07 +0000

Well first off thats not what they are proposing Stick…They are thinking about him not pitching and starting the offseason early!

When they say shut him down they mean not throwing for the rest of the year!

By: srt

srt — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:49:55 +0000

Good enough. I was just speculating out loud….

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:47:58 +0000

Who says you have to warm him up fast in the pen?

There are plenty of pen situations that do not require the Pitcher to rush to get ready.

No one is suggesting you use Santana to get out of an inning but you sure could have him warm up the start the next inning in a situation where you had to go to the pen and will have a half inning to bat before he is needed. Think the 7th and 8th innings or innings where you know the Pitcher is due up and you will need to PH.

By: stick

stick — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:43:53 +0000

getting shut down does not mean he won’t pitch/throw. Simply that he won’t be pitching int eh majors.

Consider it more like going back into a controlled rehab program again.

By: wasadeyo

wasadeyo — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:31:41 +0000

I don’t want him in the pen either but as an alternative to shutting him down it should be considered. This is definitely a case where a group decision with all the pros and cons have to be evaluated.

By: srt

srt — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:16:31 +0000

Looking at that last start….it appeared he lost it after about 50 pitches which more or less coincided with 3 innings of good work.
That might point to arm/shoulder fatigue. If that’s the case, is putting him in the pen a good idea? How will having to warm up fast, or warm up and not come in…..affect that problem, if it is the problem?

I don’t have the answers. Just speculating.
Have a feeling we won’t be seeing him in the BP rest of this year.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:14:10 +0000

Hey maybe he could go the Smoltz path and extended his career.

By: wasadeyo

wasadeyo — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:09:53 +0000

I thought the same thing right after his last start especially because for three innings he was locating the ball and the Nationals coudn’t hit him. As soon as he missed the catchers targets the hits started coming. By putting him into the pen when he comes in to pitch it will be with some adrenaline and there’s no substitution for that. He has experience in the pen and I think he would feel that he’s still helping the team while working on mechanics and building up arm strength. After such a long rehab down in Fl. I don’t imagine he’s itching to go down there and if you send him home the team loses control of what and how he’s progressing.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:55:41 +0000

I will go right back to what I said before the season started….
Put Johan in the pen!

Even if it is just for the remainder of this season!

Shutting him down is not going to help him unless he is actually injured and he needs the rest to recover.
His issue is what we all should have expected! You can’t miss and entire season+ after surgery and expect to have the physical ability to come back and pitch effectively for an entire season!

And even if he does make it through the season he will not be as good as he was until such time as all those muscles he didn’t use have been used and rebuilt back to the strength they were before he got hurt!

Shutting him down is not going to build up those muscles he needs to pitch.
And while he may not be able to go more than 2 or 3 innings a game as a starter he certainly could do that as a reliever maybe not everyday but for sure every 3rd or 4th day!

Maybe his presence in the Pen would also help some of the pen arms we have that have struggled to!

Extra days of rest are not the answer, and if your going to limit his pitch count you might as well just put him in the pen and use him for an inning or two more often as that will build up arm strength quicker than pitching 90 Pitches every 5 or 6 days!

It’s like lifting weights, sometimes lifting lesser weight more often builds up stamina and muscle better than lifting huge weights less often.

Thats the approach they should take with Santana, Let him get into games to keep his arm working but not in a position where if he is tired or ineffective that day it costs you 5 inning from your pen to make up for it making them tired for the other 5 Pitchers in the rotation that pitch a good game.

The best way to limit Santana and get him sorted out is to put him in the pen, Let him keep building his arm strength while giving you the flexibility of when and how long to pitch him, and have him start work towards next year as opposed to shutting him down and hoping he will recover by the time next year comes around.

As they say in the Gym, you have to use it or lose it!

By: Joe D

Joe D — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:23:13 +0000

That’s a cool story TRS and I could tell you’ve raised your daughter right. Thanks for sharing that.

By: Trs86

Trs86 — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:05:42 +0000

Who’s to say what the value of the Mets first no hitter is? Do you know how many Mets fans have come and gone and never got to witness that? In terms of is anyone worth25 million, that’s always the athlete debate it’s not really fair to them to hold against them that someone will pay that for their services. For me I am glad he was on the team and will remember the no hitter every time his name is mentioned for the rest of my life, especially getting to experience it with my six year old daughter.

Only problem is now she always ask when they are going to do it again.

By: Trs86

Trs86 — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:00:19 +0000

Yup, it nears September anyway so you can still carry Johan and let him Mentor and shut him down. I agree as well about bringing up Mejia for the rotation. Let him get his feet wet, I wish Familia had pitched better as well and you could bring him up for the pen.

By: Heybatter

Heybatter — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:23:15 +0000

Agree except that 6 wins, including the no no is not worth $25 million period.

By: Metfan Lou

Metfan Lou — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:02:14 +0000

You are correct. I should have said “since the no hitter.”
Good comments.

By: gorgeguy

gorgeguy — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:37:10 +0000

Totally agree about the article and Johan as mentor. He has been great in this role with Niese.