15
2012
2013 Payroll Blurry, Mets Offseason Needs Overwhelming
An article by 
Sandy Alderson told Brian Costa of the Wall Street Journal that he has not yet spoken with ownership regarding what the Mets’ 2013 payroll will be.
When approached by reporters at Citi Field over the weekend, principal owner Fred Wilpon referred all questions to general manager Sandy Alderson. But in an interview Tuesday, Alderson said he isn’t sure how much money he’ll have to invest in talent this winter.
“I haven’t had any conversations with ownership about it,” Alderson said. “I’m still focused on 2012, as is the rest of the front office. Over the next several weeks, that focus will shift, but it really hasn’t yet.”
The Mets have lowered payroll to about $93 million this season, down from $143 million in 2011 when the Mets reportedly lost $70 million. When asked by Costa if the Mets were able to stop the bleeding, he responded, ”I don’t know the answer to that question.”
With several areas that need to be addressed this offseason; including a third straight bullpen overhaul, an outfield that remains unsettled and unproductive, and lingering concerns about keeping the team’s most popular players David Wright and R.A. Dickey beyond 2013, it’s hard to see how the Mets will approach things.
Then there’s the question of whether or not they let Terry Collins go into next season as a lame duck manager.
Unlike the last two hot stove seasons, there’s a bounty of solid free agent players that will be available this time around, and even more young stars that are rumored to be on the block as well.
But it looks like the Mets won’t be players again this offseason, especially with attendance still in decline – a side effect to having a roster stacked with poor performers and yet another losing season for this front office.
With no players bought in to bolster the club when the team competed for the wild card, the team went into a deep tailspin. I think the front office is also in the throws of their own tailspin as improvement is not happening fast enough – a fact pointed out by David Wright on Sunday when he referred to these last two years of progress under Alderson as a “baby step”.
Better tuck yourselves in for a long winters nap.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
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Anyone paying attention should realize 2013 will be more of the same as 2012 was.
Mets are still broke and until Johan and Bay’s contract come off the books end of next season, I expect the biggest money spent in this off season will be Wright’s extension and possibly RAs.
As to Terry – per Costa::
The Mets picked up manager Terry Collins’s option for 2013 at the end of last year, ensuring he wouldn’t be viewed as a lame duck this year. But Alderson said he hasn’t thought about whether to extend Collins through 2014 or beyond.
“It may have been wrong of me not to have thought about it,” Alderson said. “Terry’s done a great job again this year and I’m very happy with the job he’s done and the working relationship we’ve had. That’s something we’ll consider a little bit into the future.”
you are something else. Now the excuse is that the mets are broke? again with the same excuse for the lame ass job your idol has done? amazing. these slurpers surprised me everyday.
We shaved off $50 million in ONE YEAR, now you wanna shave off $35 million more??? So then we can do what???? He does not like to spend on FA, he likes to sign those oft injured, cheap players who can contribute but are not good enough to put a team together. this situation is getting worse and worse bu the day.
Yeah, Alex….the excuse is they’re broke.
SMH.
No. that’s the excuse you’re rolling with because YOU know how pathetic this upcoming offseason will be and you are already piling up the excuses to defend your idol and come back a few months from now and say “see, i knew we were broke”.. that’s just sad and pathetic from your part…. stop the slurpeness for Sandy Alderson… jeezz..
Whatever – LOL.
How is the Met’s being broke Sandy’s fault? I’m just curious how you connect the dots from “the Wilpons aren’t spending money” to “it’s Alderson’s fault!”. Regardless of your hatred for him, you cannot pin the budget on the GM. Every GM would want an infinite budget, so to say, Sandy wants a low budget is just dumb.
This.
It is what it is right now.
Ahhhh…. Look at his track record… how the mighty have fallen no? from a genius to “the mets are broke is not his fault”..you slurpers make me sick.
The man is here to shaved off payroll, and get out, it’s funny that you mention the wilpons, we all know their financial issues, but it’s also clear that sandy’s plan is to spend as little as possible, he himself has openly and publicly admitted to not wanting to spend money on FA.
So what you are saying is that Sandy Alderson is in control of the Wilpon’s money? And even if they kept saying “please please please spend money on Josh Hamilton!!!” he would go, nope?
“I love saying you money! I’m steering you away from Whole foods and you are now buying from ShopRite only!” – Alderson
Miss the point entirely again.
As if you think the Mets have no way to make money and must totally rely on Wilpon to pay all their bills.
Are the Mets a charity to entertain fans that Wilpon must pay for everything?
When do you take to task the guy who runs the team is charged with making it PROFITABLE so that the Wilpon’s financial situation isn’t even involved in what the team does?
Sandy is the GENERAL MANAGER!
Most GMs who show losses two consecutive years in a row get fired in most other businesses!
And none of them get to go to the shareholders and say I can’t do anything unless you let me raid your own personal wealth!
By even asking for that your admitting you don’t know how to run a team and turn a profit!
by the way, the attendance is down compare to last year when we lost $70 million, so you can add to losses for this upcoming offseason… More excuses to do nothing…
Thats Right!
And they will blame Wilpon for the team not making a profit not the guy who runs it!
And if not Wilpon then Omar
Or the bat boy
or the guy who sells hotdogs in section 13
Or the guy who cuts the grass
or the guy who washes the diamondvision
ANYONE but Sandy!
He’s like a GOD and can do nothing wrong. Nothing is EVER his fault he has NO RESPONSIBILITY here whatsoever….
His track record shows he’s spent when he could. Enough with the conspiracy theories already.
Hi Fonzie,
You make some interesting points about Alderson’s spending policy. It can be viewed in different ways:
1991 $33.6 million – first
1992 $39.9 million – fifth
1993 $35.5 million – twelfth
1994 $33.1 million – thirteenth
1995 $35.9 million – eighth
1996 $19.4 million – twenty eighth
1997 $21.9 million – twenty seventh
I’m going to start with 1991 only because that is year many of us contend that Alderson took over the role of player personnel decisions. It is also the year Oakland had the highest payroll in the league. He actually increased it by more than six million the following year despite falling down to fifth which is an indication that some teams were starting to outspend him. The following season he cut payroll almost 4.5 million as more teams began spending more and his payroll then dropped to 12. He finished 1994 at the same level (13th) while cutting it by about 2.5 million.
Yet, in 1995 he increased it by 2.8 million and jumped back to the eighth highest payroll in the majors. But after that, we know what he was forced to do by owners and plummeted from 8th to 28th and cutting the payroll by 16 million (roughly 45 percent).
Do we find a pattern? Due to age, we know the Oakland club began to slip and in two years (1993) he went from top to 12th in spending. Oakland also dropped from first to last place. We also know that’s when many high priced players from those championship clubs became old and left the club -but this also suggests he did not use the money to replenish in others and Oakland remained a sub .500 team.
He did increase spending by eight percent (2.8 million) in 1995 but when forced to cut payroll after that we can see he was quite capable of doing so, like it or not.
“I’m going to start with 1991 only because that is year many of us contend that Alderson took over the role of player personnel decisions.”
No that is not the year when many of you contend Alderson took over the role of player personnel decisions. That is the year 2 people contend he took over. I’ve never heard anyone ever make such a ridiculous claim. The rest of knowledgable baseball fans and even his peers, colleagues and superiors know he took over in 1983. 83-91 he was always in the top 5. 1995 new ownership took over and ordered payroll to be slashed dramatically. I don’t know how many times we have to go over this and I don’t know why you have to keep repeating the same garbage every day.
Also during that period from 93-97 when their team was on the downside his farm system was developing the next wave of prospects that got Billy Beane a book written about him.
Hi SRT and Alex.
You guys are both right. The Mets are broke and Sandy Alderson was brought in to fix the organization’s financial mess and that included running the ballclub which takes a back seat to the first. He’s looking for office temporary help which is much less expensive than looking for permant one because his vision is with debits and credits. If the Mets weren’t broke, Sandy would still be working for Bud Selig. He would never have been hired for
‘If the Mets weren’t broke, Sandy would still be working for Bud Selig. He would never have been hired…’
Could not agree more.
SA won’t be here long enough to see a championship, IMO. He was part of the deal the Wilpons cut with Selig so they didn’t have to sell.
Problem is, he was viewed in here as a savior, and as soon as we crirticize one of the horrible moves he made due to the money constraint we were called haters, and that he’s genius, people like you and TRS and a few others were saying how 2013 will be his window etc, and now you’re making up excuses in case he does have another horrible offseason? the nerves…
‘the nerves’
The Mets are broke.
SA was brought in as part of a deal with Selig to save the team for the Wilpons.
SA role of playing ‘savior’ is for the Wilpons.
Believe what you want. Makes no never mind to me.
SA was brought in as part of a deal with Selig to save the team for the Wilpons”
ohhhhhhhhhhh, now that’s the excuse you’re going with after saying he’s a genius???
Find one comment in the past almost 2 years where I said he was a genius. Just one….
I’d like to see one comment anywhere that said he was a genius, lord, god etc……as you know SRT, you can correct the few here that insist that was said, and remind them that it was never was, but it will get twisted, and the lie will be just perpetuate on Fantasy Island. It really is feudal, you know the truth, I know the truth but, whatever. LGM
Hi Kay,
Will this do the trick? It was sent a few days ago and though the word “genuis” or “god” might not be present, the implication most certainly is….
“Fonzie13 August 14, 2012 at 12:55 am
You’re still trying to pass off that bullshit that Rigney was the architect of that Oakland team but all it is is Joey D’s continuance of bullshit. Whether you want to believe it or not it was Sandy who built that Oakland team. There is no ongiong disagreement. There are 2 misinformed posters here that have no idea what they’re talking about that’s not an ongoing disagreement.
I’m still waiting for a shred of evidence linking Rigney to any of those moves in between the years 83-97. All you have is your daily routine of non stop bullshit. if your not brining up the Beltran trade everyday your trying to bullshit the rest of the readers into thinking a semi retired consultant who was in the broadcast booth was the one who built those A’s teams. Stop bullshitting and show something linking Rigney to those decisions. There’s thousands linking Alderson to them not one linking Rigney.
BTW it’s statistical analysis not computer analysis. Get it right of your gonna bullshit. At least make it seem like you know wtf your talking about. Especially if your going to repeat yourself everday, know what your talking about.”
Hi Joey
Not even close, but nice try.
Clearly things have changed. Clearly the fiancial troubles haven’t gone away and the FO won’t be able to go after any big stars like we thought they would after this season.
So he thinks Alderson built the A’s, you think Rigney did.
Not sure why that means anybody said he was a god or a genius?
Does that mean you think Rigney was a god or a genius?
Hi Jessep,
If somebody infers one who admitted having no baseball background when being hired by Oakland after years of private practice in law yet immediately – in addition to overseeing the complex and demanding rigors being the team’s General Counsel – began making draft pick selections, trades and free agent signings which led to a long run of post-season appearing teams…. well, the one who derives such logical conclusions must be implying this individual has to be a genius. Either that, or it really doesn’t take much to be a general manager.
My reference to Friedman pointed out he was the only general manager other than Sandy to have so little experience. I did not offer an opinion, only an acknowledgment that he at least had a baseball background which Sandy didn’t.
Or do you suppose Sandy was just trying to perpetrate a myth proclaiming he came to Oakland with no real professional knowledge of the game for reasons only known by his own self?
Oh, and Jessup, thanks for the nice words about us disagreeing so much but in a cordial manner. I wish more would abide by the example of both of us to debate their differences. In fact, it is quite often that those of us having friction in the forum get along fine in the shout box.
So I suggest that behavior simply be expanded to include the forums and llmit words like “bullshit”, “liar”, etc. to Sandy Alderson, the Wilpons or even Bill Rigney instead of each other so nobody’s feelings are hurt. I know you and I are willing to do it. So how about the rest of you guys and gals?
Maybe if you’d stop repeating the same 2 topics every single day to instigate a flame war you’d be treated cordially by everyone. You choose to repeat yourself every day. Why else would anyone keep repeating himself but to get an all out flame war started. I’ll take a wild guess tommorow you will beat the Beltran dead horse again and friday the 80′s A;s, saturday Beltran, sunday the 80′s A’s. etc…
Joey D:
When Frank Cashen took over as Exec VP of the Orioles he had 0 front office experience in baseball.
He took over in 1965 – went from being a writer, went to law school, worked in PR and advertising to Exec VP of the Orioles.
The last time he played baseball was 1943, 1944.
So 21 years prior.
By all accounts wouldn’t you say he was an outsider also?
I’m not sure where you’re going with your argument of Sandy to be honest. Sandy was a special case in Oakland. 1 of the partners of the law firm he worked at took over the A’s as President because his father bought the team – so he brought Alderson in.
We have absolutely no chance to know what Sandy was taught in the 2 years. General counsel for all we know was an excuse to get him in the organization. We’ll never know.
If your point is based on the beane stuff allowing non baseball insiders to get jobs – nobody will tell you that NOBODY ever got a job from the outside. What I will tell you is that a specific skill set which was once never looked at – suddenly became a criteria for a lot of teams to find a new GM.
Rather than old baseball men, many teams specifically looked for young newcomers who thought differently than “what we always knew.”
That’s undeniable.
Here’s what I do not get about the Rigney/Sandy debate
If you’re going to tell me that Rigney was responsible for the A’s championships – then wouldn’t that also mean Rigney was responsible for the steroids more than Sandy?
Call me crazy but I have seen many people who side with you try to pin the steroid era on Sandy, and I wonder why you never replied to them and said “woah wait – Rigney was in charge not Sandy.”
So why is that?
I have 0 doubt Rigney’s role was significant as an advisor but I also have 0 doubt that you’ll never know who made the final decisions and if 1 guy’s title is GM and the other is not, then you really have nothing to go on.
In 1989
“Rigney said he believes that A’s General Manager Sandy Alderson will re-sign Parker as soon as the team’s player personnel department concludes its roster study.
”Sandy won’t comment or make any decisions until the Series and the roster study is over,” Rigney said. ”That’s been his policy. He wants to see what we need next year and the next year after that.”
That’s been who’s policy?
There are plenty of people that have had the title Special Assistant to the GM – or even (wait for it) Assistant GM. Yet you never heard such a huge fight over who makes the final decisions do you?
Are Eric Davis and Mario Soto really responsible for the Reds right now?
They both carry the exact same title that Rigney did.
The cult on the defensive…. Ashamed of the love they give unendningly to their leader, their pied piper since they are too ashamed to call them their god! But as Kay proves, you cult members, know the “truth”. Yes, don’t call him your god, but we all know he is. The “truth” according to the words of cult member kay herself.
Well SRT you have to start asking yourself now…
WHY are they broke?
They cut 55 Mil from the payroll.
They currently have a Payroll that is average in the MLB
Madoff hasn’t cost them any more money and won’t
Wilpons paid off all thier team related Debt.
So what could be the cause of being broke now?
Did the Wilpons take a trip to Vegas and lose thier shirts?
OR is it more likely that the Front Office has done a poor job in building a team that could get people back into thier seats?
Done a poor job in the Media to give the ticket buyers hope?
Is the team going to lose money again?
Why is that? Why is it that teams like te Rangers, San Fran, St Louis, Detroit, EVEN THE CHICAGO CUBS can out draw us?
Why is it that teams like the Marlins, Detroit, Giants, Cards, Brewers, and Twins can out spend us without losing a penny?
We heard for a year that WISE spending was the key to success so what have we spent wisely on?
If this team loses money this year you won’t be able to hang the financial issues on the Wilpon’s lack of deep pockets anymore!
Lets face it the Sandy supporters are clearly running out of excuses and places to point to to explain away this Front Office’s lack of success!
I don’t have to start asking myself why they’re broke. It’s been well documented.
I’d probably start with the Billion dollars in debt they have over SNY, the Stadium, etc.
Please the Sadium has nothing to do with the team and every attempt by you guys to try and lump them in merely shows your total lack of knowledge on Business and Real Estate!
Do you know how much money they pay if they default on a stadium loan?
ZERO! At worst they lose ownership of the stadium which is PEANUTS in dollars compared to what they make off your food purchases and Ticket sales, none of which goes to who owns the stadium but the who owns the team…Who owns the team?
The money they borrowed for SNY is PEANUTS!
How much do you think it costs to start a TV network?
Answer – No more than 50 Mil! thats two years of Pujols’ Salary!
and they didn’t even need that much as Time Warner put up the majority of the money!
I guess both of you are still relying on year old reports on Wilpons finances…
Guess you haven’t read recently that the Wilpons and Sterling are major players in redeveloping all that real estate around CitiField.
Is that the act of a company and person who is broke and has his head pinned by debt?
Come back to reality and realize the team spending is what it is not because of the Wilpons but because Sandy has managed to make BAD ATTENDANCE even WORSE!
Attendance that paid the bills lost 50 Mil after cutting 15 Mil of Salary
Attendance that lost 50 Mil and when it cut payroll by 15 Mil then lost 70 Mil!
We ust cut 40-55 Mil more from that Payroll and attendance has dropped again!
If we are broke it’s because Sandy and his moves…HIS PLAN has driven more fans to abandon the team!
And while all the Sandy supporters migyht think there is safety in numbers on this blog to make it look like you might be the Majority opinion of Met fans the REAL VOTE is showing quite the reverse!
You see people are voting on Sandy and his PLAN with their Wallets!
And refusing to go see them play!
They WERE GOING right up until the point where Sandy said you know what We give up this year….
And the Fans said to sandy….OK! We give up going too!
And for that reason they will probably lose money yet again this year despite cutting 50 Mil!
And won’t make money again by cutting until they can find some players that will PAY them to play for the mets!
“If we are broke it’s because Sandy and his moves…HIS PLAN has driven more fans to abandon the team!”
This stuff is better than a Mitch Hedberg joke.
Do you have Season Tickets NJ?
Would you buy them if you lived here?
If not then I say you don’t really believe all this crap your spouting as much as you claim…
If you believe in the plan being implemented here you would be going to the games to support the guy you believe in…
Are you?
I bet no!
You are the Zach de la Rocha of the Mets blog-o-sphere. Keep on raging away.
And yor the MMO town drunk…Whats your point?
You don’t support the team monetarily but your quick to blame the Wilpons for your lack of contribution?
All I asked here is, If you think the Majority of Met Fans believe the way you do and that Sandy is doing a good job, Why have they voted on him and decided to not go to the games to support his plan?
A Question both you and SRT have seemingly avoided for some reason.
There isn’t a single Sandy supporter here I bet that has bought season tickets because they like what they see from the GM.
The fans have voted on Sandy’s tenure here!
They voted with thier feet and wallet and left!
Rally ’round the family! …with a pocket full of shells…
You are upset I don’t support the team financially, yet I live 27+ hours away from the stadium? I buy the major league baseball package. None of that money goes to the Mets, right?
Walgreens called. Your lithium prescription is ready to be picked up.
Way to try and change the subject by saying something I never said…
Did I say I was upset with you for not supporting the team?
All I said was you probably don’t and neither does this phantom SANE MAJORITY you think you belong to and agrees with you on Alderson because the Attendance keeps going down!
If you really believe YOUR in the Majority opinion of Met fans why aren’t they voting YOUR WAY and going to the games?
Becqause Sandy is doing such a good job they can’t bring themselves to go?
Whats your explanation for more people not going if you think they agreewith you and think Sandy is doing a good job?
You will avoid this the way you have all the other questions which is typical of any Slurper who really has no answers just fantasy beliefs he thinks is a SANE opinion shared by most met fans!
Too bad the Mets fans seem to suggest they don’;t like what they see UNLIKE you and your fellow slurpers!
Hi Metsie,
I’m a 20 minute drive over the Whitestone Bridge to Citi Field and haven’t purchased a ticket since 2010 and have no plans or desire to do so in the future, not under this front office and ownership.
It’s one thing if they were trying and the team was losing – it’s just that the only effort has been to enable the Wilpon’s to retain ownership. Won’t try to examine and explain all the financial oddeties that went into the Wilpon’s financial mess as it affects the Mets to other than something went terribly wrong for them to be in such a hole now and to continue on such a path seeing both the attendance figures and ticket prices dwindling. To bring in M. Donald Alderson who wasn’t even interested in the position to begin with shows that short of selling the team, it’s a losing battle for everyone involved – the Wilpons, the players and us fans.
BTW – another reason I refuse to go to a game is because the Wilpons developed a stadium in which those without money to burn are treated like steerage with cut off views of the outfield, escalators not going to the top level, and two of every three entrances being off limits.
Are you sure you don’t work for the government? They’ve got the same game plan going on.
Spend what you don’t have and cross your fingers no one will notice until the next guy is in.
There is a difference SRT…
The government is spending YOUR money…Not some millionaires!
Your plan is more like the governments…
Make the Rich guys pay for everything why should I pay for the things I want?
Do you own season tickets SRT (You too NJ)
If you believe so much in this GM why aren’t you out there putting your money where your belief is?
If you guys are the MAJORITY opinion why is attendance going down?
After all if everyone believs what you do they should be encouraged and go to see the team they believe is on the right track no?
So why aren’t they?
Why aren’t YOU?
Yes. I have season tickets while living in Texas. Take time to think before you rant off into the deep end of the kiddie pool without your swimmies.
Take time to read bfore you do…
Note the question: “Would you buy them if you lived here?”
I notice you didn’t answer…
If I said yes, would you believe me?
Maybe now answer the other question…
If you think everyone thinks the way you do and Sandy is doing a good job why don’t THEY go to the games?
Do they all live in Texas as an Excuse too?
Sucky economy? The overall expense of going to a game (read: in any sport) is too high? Watching from the couch in HD can be more enjoyable? Fans are fair-weather types? Gas prices are rising? People are scared of skin cancer so they avoid day games and are scared of the dark so they stay home at night?
Hmm why don’t those excuses apply to the other 31 teams then?
or is this just another ANY REASON other than Sandy’s job performance!
Should we change your nick to NJSlurperinTX?
Sandy can do no wrong in your eyes thats really what it comes down to and since you subscribe to that fantasy the truth will always escape you!
and THATS why you got more excuses than Cox’s Army because thats the only defense you have for what you know is a bad judgement on your GM!
Hmm why don’t those excuses apply to the other 31 teams then?
Braves, who are in the middle of a pennant race and have a good team – had a paid attendance of 18K on Monday and 17K on Tuesday. I guess the fans have spoken, right?
Not a doubt in my mind the poor attendance in the past few years at Citi has much to do with the product on the field. Some people reserve spending of their hard earned, little disposable cash on entertainment they might enjoy. The casual fan doesn’t enjoy losing. Only the die hard fan – like those with season tickets – will continue to go to games in a losing season.
Not a doubt in my mind if this team was competing right now, revenues would be up.
LOL that 18K represents 20% of the total population of Atlanta!
We have MILLIONS living in NY!
YES the fans have spoken in Atlanta!
You make my head hurt, Metsie. And I do work for the gov. so that’s a stretch there.
Which would explain why your solution to all problems is:
“We need a really Rich guy to pay for everything we want”
Does your head hurt because I exposed that point of view or the fact that you realize that you don’t have season tickets and are really the reason a GM you think is smart doesn’t have the money to look like it so he can use those smarts to make the better team?
My head hurts trying to follow your brand of logic.
Yes you know why?
Because it’s logical and doesn’t work in that illogical fantasy you want to believe in…
SRT, BROKE? U DO REALIZE THE DOZEN OR SO “SOUVENIER” OWNERSHIP PKGS THEY SOLD @ 20 OR SO MILLION APIECE WAS A GROSS ADDITION TO THEIR BOTTOM LINE WITYH ONLY WINING & DINING EXPENSES TO ACCOMODATE FOR? LET’S CALL IT A GROSS ADDITION OD 200M IN PROFIT ADDED TO THE 20M IN NAMING RIGHTS DOLLARS THAT SHOULD OFFSET THE MORTGAGE PMTS.
IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED UNCONCIONABLE IN NYC TO NOT HAVE ALREADY DRAWN A BLURPRINT TOWARDS ’13 IMPROVEMENTS, HELL THIS IS NEITHER OAKLAND OR SAN DIEGO WITH 3 SUPPOSEDLY EXPERIENCED GMs ON THE PAYROLL SOMEONE SHOULD BE CONCENTRATING ON ANSWERS TO THE OBVIOUS QUESTIONS IN ADDITION TO SHAKING THE 8 BALL! PERHAPS BILLY BEANE CAN SIT & REFLECT UNTIL NOVEMBER; BUT AS THE LITTLE FGREEN LIZARD ON THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE STATES, “THIS IS NEW YAWK, FORGEDDABOUTIT!”
THAT IS UNLESS THEY’RE PLANNING ON SUCCEEDING BY RENTING PARKING SPACES IN FLUSHING. LOL
Renting parking spaces in Flushing.
You might be onto something….
“IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED UNCONCIONABLE IN NYC TO NOT HAVE ALREADY DRAWN A BLURPRINT TOWARDS ’13 IMPROVEMENTS”
But he HAS a plan a Long term plan!
Srt Jessup the town drunk and Donal have told us!
The only problem is Sandy hasn’t created it yet.
Hasn’t gotten to the 2013 part of it yet….
But it’s a long term plan because Sandy is going to need a long term to figure out what the plan is!
Because the Plan right now is to have NO PLAN!
It’s to wait till a plan comes to him!
Nothing really knew in the article that the fan base didn’t already know or suspect. I think they really have their heads buried in the sand , meaning the Wilpons, Alderson and Collins. If the article is true then the bosses are not talking to one another, they have no clear plan for the off season other than pray that Wright and Dickey will stick around. The chance of them signing an impact player in the off season is slim. I think the future of the Mets is the farm system. We will live or die by the talent in our minor leagues. Next year a 65 win season if we’re lucky.
On the assumption that payroll stays flat, the team still has a majority of their payroll wrapped up in 3-4 players. Unless Santana or Wright are moved (Bay is not moveable), there really isn’t going to be a plethora of funds available. Yeah, you’ll have Pelf’s money and Rauch’s Money and Hairston’s and Carrasco’s… but that will be needed to spackle over the cracks, not fill major holes, per se.
So, you either patch it together another year and wait for Santana’s and Bay’s money to come off the books (which does not preclude Wright or Dickey being re-signed, as their incomes wouldn’t significantly increase over what they currently are) or you deal for prospects and fill in other needs with FAs. Example would be trade Wright for a top notch OF & C prospects + some others, slide Murph to 3B and sign an Aaron Hill type to play 2B(?). Heck, you could probably even trade Dickey for 2 decent prospects while you are at it. Not saying it’s possible or probable, but it is a way of spreading the proverbial wealth until Santana and Bay are gone and there is an extra 40 million or so to spread around.
So, patience or hit the red button and lay waste to stars.
I think the front office is also in the throws of their own tailspin as improvement is not happening fast enough – a fact pointed out by David Wright on Sunday when he referred to these last two years of progress under Alderson as a “baby step”.
I’m thinking that if and when the two sides meet after the season, Wright is going to want to know what the plans are for free agents, signings, etc. and that he wont sign anything unless he’s convinced the Mets are a 95+ win team by 2014.
Wright isn’t the only one who wants to know what the future plans are.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall…..
I agree. I believe Wright means it when he says his next contract will not be about money. If they dont show him a convincing 1 or 2 year plan for a championship plan, he’ll be gone.
“I agree. I believe Wright means it when he says his next contract will not be about money. If they dont show him a convincing 1 or 2 year plan for a championship plan, he’ll be gone”
Lmao…. I mean, some people keep amusing this site… So now if wright is gone is not because of the money, it’ll be because the team is not championship contender.. Right..
Hi Alex,
The only way we will know about Wright is if Sandy offers him such a good contract and he takes it or that he is also told to shop around, he does, is ready to sign with a contender, then Sandy offers him even more money to stay.
Things are blurry yet we are constantly being told this guy has a plan!
What is this plan to see an Eye Doctor about his blurry 2013 Vision for this team?
Here is the plan folks…It’s elegance is in it’s simplicity!
WAIT!
WAIT for something to happen!
WAIT – For fans to for whatever reason come to the park more
WAIT – For some team to give up greatness for dirt the way thre Marlins gave up Piazza
WAIT – For some drafted kid to generate fan excitement
WAIT – For a team that no one thinks much of to surprise everyone and do something good
WAIT – Until Jason Bay and Santana come off the books
WAIT AND PRAY – They can get Wright and Dickey on the cheap so they are not forced to let them go and cause the Fans to abandon them or the Media to crucify them and call for thier head
And barring all that….This is the backup plan….
WAIT to get FIRED and blame it all on the Fans, Wilpon and Madoff with a little Omar as a garnish!
I feel it could be 3-5 more years until we are relevant again. I would add that Alderson was bought here not to build anything, that it’s just a cover story. He’s just an elderly caretaker until we hire a much younger and progressive GM like a Daniels or Rizzo. When the Wilpons are back on track, Alderson will be gone. The shitty part is that we will probably lose Wright and Dickey in the process, but maybe Flores and Wheeler make up for their losses.
Is this a private chat or can anyone join in? lol Teams with a lot less have done a lot more so I’m not letting a $95 million payroll give this GM a free pass. Oakland has a $50 million payroll, and Pittsburgh a little more than that, and also Tampa Bay. Teams have won championships with a lot less. Last offseason turned out to be a terrible wast of payroll on the worst bullpen in the game. There is no free pass for that. If Johan or Wright take up too much of your flexibility, why are they still here? We could have traded Wright and his salary which is what we’ll end up doing anyway. Even if you ate half of Johan or Bays contract, it still gives you half that money back to spend on other things. Be creative for crying out loud. Do something. Wright was generous when he said this regime is a baby step, it’s still crawling.
It’s not the amount of the payroll – it’s never the amount overall.
It’s how it’s allocated. Do those teams you mentioned have more than 2/3s of their payroll tied up in a handful of players? Do they have a farm system that’s consistently producing skilled ML players that are ready to step in to fill holes or that can be traded for those holes?
You can’t look at just the bottom line payroll number in a vacuum and say it’s enough to get the job done.
whose job is it to see that all that gets done…
And what has he done to start seeing that it gets done?
Hmmm?
We have nearly twice the Salary of those two teams and only half of it not your false two thids of it is tied up in big money contracts.
SRT,
I’m just wondering why the payroll can’t just be gradually reduced over time instead of it having to be stripped down all at once? Since we are indeed still commited to Bay, Santana, Dickey and (hopefully) Wright why not retain a higher payroll to get other quality players and lower it down gradually as those contracts end?
Why do it this way?
From everything I’ve read over the past year, the Wilpon’s Mets had to be near broke.
MLB loaned them 25 MIL….a loan that was kept secret for awhile and one MLB allowed an extension on past the 12 repayment.
Then they allowed a 40 MIL bridge loan to get them to minority investors so they could pay the 2012 bills coming into the season.
Couple that will all the other smaller cost savings we read about and I have to believe gradually reducing the payroll wasn’t enough. They appeared to be scraping pennies to make payroll. I can see no other reason for slashing the payroll 50 MIL in one season – an historical amount. Plus letting Reyes walk, which still irks me.
BINGO!
The only wasted salary on the books that anyone can identify totals 40 Mil (consisting of Santana and Bay and everyone loved Sanatana until 1 game after the No No!)
At our current 93.3 Mil payroll that leaves 53.3 Mil to work with Thats only 2 Mil less than what the Padres, and A’s spent on thier entire team!
The problem isn’t that we can’t spend to fix the problem is that they have not made any moves to correct the problem!
They have yet to pay a single free Agent that is meant to be here past this year except maybe Francisco who is still uncertain if you really want him around next year.
They could have traded Wright to get three or four players and some extra cash to spend but they didn’t!
Because they know the problem isn’t what we are spending like the slurpers want to insist is the case…
It’s the money we are not making because the GM in tow years has done NOTHING to improve this team in two years time!
I think this Catcher we just got is actually the first trade we have made for one of our “Not Good Enough” kids and who that was isn’t even named which says to me it’s probably one of those kids we drafted this year in a draft we thought sucked so bad we didn’t sign half of them!
I understand Ownership not providing an answer, but I don’t understand that Sandy didn’t even ASK THE QUESTION.
He’s either asleep at the wheel of lying because the answer was soooooo depressing.
I’m going with option B. Have a feeling that depressing is going to be putting it mildly.
Definitely. OF COURSE he’s talked to the Wilpons. How can you not?
I guess you umped right to the middle of the piece and ignored what Sandy said…
Here I’ll Remind you….
“Sandy Alderson told Brian Costa of the Wall Street Journal that he has not yet spoken with ownership regarding what the Mets’ 2013 payroll will be.”
Yes, I read that.
SA just admitted that he has his head up his butt. How can he possibly set a strategy for the future if he doesn’t have a clue as to what next year’s budget will be? Doesn’t next year’s budget reality have a bearing on what you should be doing this year? Pretty dismal approach for an organization that has three experienced GM’s in the FO. The reality is that these guys led by the lord are on full time vacation and not even coming close to earning their salaries. They are literally the blind leading the blind.
Doesn’t the lord realize that he has put a laughingstock team on the field and is asking the fans to pay top dollar for tickets? That is very sad and an embarrassment for Met fans.
He has a long term plan…
It’s to take a few years while he develops a plan or one falls into his lap!
MASK, QUITE SIMPLY A 50M PAYROLL IS UNSUSTAINABLE @ A COMPETITIVE LEVEL IN NYC PRIMARILY DUE TO TAX EXCESSES. EVEN THE ROOKIE NY CALLUP @ MLB MINIMUM GETS SLAMMED BY DRACONIAN INCOME TAXES ON 3 LEVELS FED,STATE,CITY. CONSIDER THIS DAMAGE TO A PLAYER’S TAKE HOME:
FEDERAL 35%
NYS:$102,000 + 35% OF EXCESS OVER $380,000
NYC $3,071 + 3.648% OF EXCESS OVER $90,000
WHO COMES IP WITH THESE NUMBERS? BTW IN FL (TAMPA,MIAMI) PLAYERS TAX LIABILITY STOPS @ THE 35% LEVEL AND EVERY OTHER STATE WHERE MLB IS PRESENT THE STATE RATES ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER WHILE NO OTHER US CITY HAS THE AUDACITY TO CHARGE INCOME TAXES.
ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, PERHAPS MIKE HAMPTON WASN’T THAT FAR OFF CONSIDERING THE PRICE TAG ASSOCIATED WITH NYC PUBLIC SCHOOLS LET ALONE THE EDUCATION LEVEL BEING SUPPLIED. PERHAPS ITS BEST THE WLPONS DIVEST THEMSELVES OF ALL NYC MLB HOLDINGS & CONCENTRASTE ON MINOR EAGUE OWNERSHIPS IN THE PIONEER OR OTHER INDY LEAGUE LOL
I KNOW, FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES HAVING BEGUN MY CAREER WITH A NATIONAL CORPORATION IN ’69 IN NYC UNTIL I WAS PROMTED TO CHERY HILL, NJ (HUGE TAKE HOME INCR BY ALTERING TAX JURISDICTION THEN ANOTHER HUGE TAKE HOME NET BUMP BEING ROMTED FROM CHERRY HILL TO WILMINGTON, DE, AGAIN WHEN PROMOTED TO COLUMBUS, GA SUDDENLY A REVERSAL AS MY NEXT OPORTUNITY WAS BACK TO A NJ WORSITE. TALK ABOUT STICKER-SHOCK AS I KNEW THEN I COULD NEVER TOLERATE A RETURN TO MY OVER TAX-BURDENED OOTS OF NYC SELECTING TO PROCEED FROM NJ TO LA,CA. WITH A FINALITY IN MY PRESENT NC SURROUNDINGS WITHOUT A GOV’T HAND IN ALL 4 OCKETS SIMULTANEOUSLY.
CAN U IMAGINE, WHAT HARVEY THOUGHT AFTER SEEING HOW LITTLE WAS LEFT ADFTER HIS BIG PROMOTION? TO THE 425K MINIMUM LEVEL. WHICH LOOKS LIKE THIS…
$ 425,000
-148,750 FEDERAL INCOME TAX
- 68,000 STATE INCOME TAX
- 10,000 CITY INCOME TAX
BTW THAT’S THE MISERY PLACED UPON THE MLB MINIMUM WAGE EARNER; IMAGINE WHAT REYES WAS CONSIDERING AS THE TRUE EARNINGS DIFFERENTIAL
AS TO MATT HARVEY’S TAKE HOME PAY FOR THE FIRST YR THE 425,000 IS NRETTED DOWN TO LESS THAN HALF (46%) WITH 54% BEING SPLIT BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT, THE GOVERNOR & THE MAYOR EUPHEMISTICALLY SPEAKING.
Hi 62,
I think most of us older than Matt Harvey would love to have an annual take home salary after taxes of close to $200K. One can easily live on that each year if not careless.
But of course, I understand and appreciate the point you were trying to make about taxes, especially with those like you who have worked hard all their lives and find themselves in your situation. It’s just that at 23, thre is no need to feel bad for Matt Harvey when he sees what was taken off his paycheck.
JOEY, YOU’RE MISSING THE POINT. CONSIDERING A MIAMI PLAYER ON MINIMUM ONLY PAYS THE 35% FEDERAL PORRTION AND EVERY FREE AGENT ON THE MARKET MUST CONSIDER THE GOV’T BITE SIZE OUT OF HIS APPLE. THE METS ARE DIRECT COMPETITORS WITH ATLANTA, PHILA DELPHIA, DC BOTH ON THE FIELD & IN THE MARKET PLACE. FOR EAL, CONSIDER THIS…
BOURNE IS A POTENTIA F/A THE METS SHOULD BE INTERESTED IN AS ARE THE BRAVES, NATIONALS & PHILLIES HOW MUCH HIGHER WILL HIS NET INCOME BE IN ANY OF THOSE LOCATIONS?
WHERE DO U THINK HIS FIN’L ADVISORS WILL RECOMMEND HE PLAY?
JOEY, THE POINT IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE DRACONIAN INCOME TAX BURDENS F NYC THE NY METS CAN NOT POSSIBLY EXPECT TO ACQUIRE & RETAIN FREE WILLED TALENT FOR THE SAME GROSS PAYROLL. TO BALANCE THE DIFFERENCE THE METS NEED TO PAY NEARLY $6.6M FOR EVERY MIAMI $1M.
TAK ABOUT OBSCENE…
Hi 62,
How could I be missing the point when I wrote:
“But of course, I understand and appreciate the point you were trying to make about taxes, especially with those like you who have worked hard all their lives and find themselves in your situation.”
It was just using Matt Harvey instead of some higher priced verteran as an example. That is why I added “It’s just that at 23, thre is no need to feel bad for Matt Harvey when he sees what was taken off his paycheck.” That to me is not obsene.
But to say “I’M SORRY; BUT WHEN DID MAKING A PROFIT BECOME SOMRETING TO BE ASHAMED OF?” – that is changing the conversation about the Wilpons to a political discussion of which I will not add anything more to what I have already said, that being:
“”But of course, I understand and appreciate the point you were trying to make about taxes, especially with those like you who have worked hard all their lives and find themselves in your situation.”
And keeping this geared toward baseball, the tax situation seems not to have been affecting the Yankees who have the same set of circumstances to work with as well.
JOEY, OF COURSE YANKEES AREN’T ENCOUNTERING THE SAME RESISTANCE AS THEY’RE WORKING IN THE TOP PAYSCALE REGIONS WHILE WE’RE CERTAINLY SKIMMING THE LOWER REGION OF THE SCALE.
WHILE EVERYONE SHOUILD KNOW BY NOW, I’VE NEVER BEE A WILPON FAN OR APOLOGIST
I CAN NOT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE ONLY WITNESS THEIR BEING PILLARIED FOR SO CALLED PROFITEERING. PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE 75-90M IS THE BASEMENT LEVEL TO SUSTAINING A COMPETITIVE TALENT LEVEL IN NYC AS COMPARED TO 50-75M ELSEWHERE AND THE FRONTOFFICE & OWNERSHIP MUST ACCOMODATE THAT SIMPLE FACT OF DOUING BUSINESS IN THEIR CHOSEN GEOGRAPHY.
Hi 62,
Nobody should blame the Wilpons for trying to make as much profit as they can, but when they first opened Citi Field they made it at the expense of shutting out many working class families by charging an arm and a leg for even the least expensive seats and adding extra expensive processing charges to boot. In 2010, when prices were reduced, I paid $63 total for two $19 tickets in the upper promenade outfield reserved. That was $25 more for processing and shipping? The computer prints the tickets. Overnight Fed Express and UPS cost individuals $6.95 so the rate is much less for corporations and it being second day delivery as well.
So while nobody faults the Wilpons for trying to make as much profit as they could, they can be faulted for trying to squeeze the fans as much as they can to make that. And because that also comes from the salaries of the players today being so high – like at age 23 a rookie pitcher is making a half million dollars a year – shows this is not just the Wilpons but everyone in MLB, let alone any professional sport.
JORY, S&H HAVE BEEN THE PROFIT MULTIPLIER OF THE ELECTRONIC AGE & I SINCERELY DOUBT ANYONE NAMED WILPON OR KATZ HAVE ANY CLUE AS TO ALL OF THE COMPONENTS CREATING THEIR MARGIN
FROM THEIR CORP ELEVATION THE KNITS & KNATS INCLUDED IN THE WHATS IS TOO MICROSCOPIC FOR DETAILED EXAMINATION.
FORTUBATELY FOR ME, I’M TOO DISTANT TO GET INVOLVED IN ANY MORE THAN A GAMEDAY DECISION TO ATTEND OR NOT
Hi 62,
What you say is all true, however, from a business perspective I’m sure that in-house marketing research determined what they could and could not charge. I once posted a link that had an interview with a Met executive (forgot who) who said in 2009 they expected to break even if they could draw an average 38,200 per game. That was also based on 2009 ticket prices (including luxury suites). This projection had to be made years before when the decision to build just a 42,000 capacity seat stadium was reached and had to consider how much revenue was needed to offset the costs of running the organization – from player contracts to the minor league system to the grounds crew.
It seems they believed less paying more at Citi Field would bring in just as much revenue (or possibly more?) than more paying less at Shea Stadium. Whoever determined this economic path, let it be the Wilpons or those under them, it was a pathway to disaster. Profits were made the last few years at Shea but Sandy Alderson tells us that the Mets lost money the very first season at Citi Field.
To me that creates a problem that will be long-lasting. With such a small seating capacity, even if the Mets sold out Citi Field every night it would not bring in nearly the revenue they counted on due to the cost of tickets falling so drastically (despite those add on fees). Fans will be even further outpriced than they are now if the cost of tickets are again raised.
From my pespective, that creates a problem that will be long-lasting and perhaps never be resolved by whoever owns the club and wants to turn a profit – the revenue to run the club in the financial manner they hoped for cannot be obtained in such a small park.
Boston, of course, has the same problem yet makes countless millions in profit each season – not from ticket sale revenues but from NESN. Same with other clubs. For the Wilpons not to be able to offset loss at the gate with television and merchandise revenue – which in turn would result in more spending by the club – something must be very wrong in their overall financial world.
Seriously…Look at all these comments. We have the fan base but the ownership is making a joke out of it. They don’t care about the fans they care about the bottom line. MAKING A PROFIT. They should be ashamed of themselves fielding this poor excuse of a team in the greatest city in the WORLD ! The only way this is going to change is to get rid of the problem. I think the problem happens to be the owners. Does anyone here agree with me? I think the attendance going down is a good thing let it go down to nothing
I agree they are about making a profit…
problem is they don’t seem to know how to do that because they have lost money two years in a row and all signs point to them losing money again this year!
You can’t make a profit when you gut the store andget rid of what brings in the customers and what they want.
But thats what is happening here.
They keep cutting payroll and the revenue keeps reducing more than they cut!
Which means they lose MORE money and get further away from profitablility!
I think the problem happens to be the owners. Does anyone here agree with me?
Raising my hand.
“he has not yet spoken with ownership regarding what the Mets’ 2013 payroll will be.”
I guess that’s Wilpon’s fault right? He has been ducking Sandy to avoid the conversation has he?
Hands down!
He’s spoken with them Metsie. How can you not? You think he’s that stupid?
SO you think he is LIAR then?
Or why did he say he didn’t speak with him when it’s obvious to you he did?
I’M SORRY; BUT WHEN DID MAKING A PROFIT BECOME SOMRETING TO BE ASHAMED OF?
IS YOUR TRUE MONIKER… OBAMA OR BIDEN?
WE KNOW YOU AREN’T MITT!
ROTFLMAO!
All the Sandy Alderson haters who have complained about him doing nothing- well this is why…
What is why?
Because he has no plan past October? If so then I agree!
What happened to all that crap the Sandy Slurpers were feeding us about this long term plan that seems to not go much past this season?
Did we change the definition of LONG TERM by an act of congress to mean anything longer than the next 25 inutes or something?
For just a day can you and others try to be somewhat respectable to people who have an opposing view?
This “slurp” thing is old, and unless it means something else – it can be highly offensive and pointless.
There’s no need for it.
Nobody is calling you names that I recall right? Nobody is coming up with disgusting terms to lump you into a group of people who think differently than them. Right?
Try it for 24 hours – see what happens.
HAHAHAHA Well the shoe is on the other foot now isn’t it?
Where was this respect when people were saying things you didn’t like and have since been proven correct?
What happened to the days where Jessup called everyone a HATER or NOT A MET FAN or accused people of ROOTING AGAINST merely because they didn’t think the guy you liked and cost us a game was noted as costing us yet ANOTHER game?
You Reap what you Sew there Jesse!
If you had treated other as you wish to be treated you wouldn’t be in the position you are in now!
You see what you want to see Metsie.
If you want to give it a try we’ll go clean slate right now and see how things go. I guarantee you though you’ll be the first to use insults as a way to try and get your opposing view across before I do.
I don’t think you or others realize that you hatred for a General Manager drives the negativity on this website. It drives people away. You care more about who gave their opinion, than what the opinion really is.
There are plenty of people who disagree with me (lets say Joey D), but look at how its handled. It’s different, because Joey D is looking to get the same point across as you almost always – and rarely if ever does Joey D revert to using school yard insults.
You think it’s just me? I’ve seen you and others use these terms to various users. It’s your crutch – if somebody may be a tad smarter than you, you have to rush to insulting them or questioning their age for example or worse sometimes.
We have people who spend 20 minutes in a chat room bragging about how all they do is talk baseball in there, but the entire conversation is about other users who aren’t there.
That spills over to here.
State your case, and move on. Try it – Just lets say for a week, a day, an hour, a minute. See what happens.
I disagree with you on almost everything – the difference is I never use foul language, I never use derogatory terms. I’ll take the Pepsi Challenge over any commenter for the past year against comments I made and easily prove where the unnecessary behavior comes from.
So spare me this “you started it” business.
You bring a lot of valid points (whether I agree or disagree), now try bringing them as though you recognize everybody here is a Mets fan and wants the same result as you and you are no better than anybody here.
That’s all I’m gonna say about that. Ball is in your court.
LOL yeah you fire the first shot at the head and then call truce in the name of being a good person!
You made this mess when you insulted and called crazy anyone who didn;t agreew with you when you got on your high horse about how rosy everything was going to be once Sandy got here!
Exacerbated it when you posted your puff propaganda piece about a good day and insulted anyone who thought differently then compounded it when that good day bullpen cost us close to 10 games in the standings and accused people of rooting against the guys you thought were good METS.
You made the bed now lay in it and I will promise you this though….
If you straighten up and fly right, stop demeaning posters who disagree with you by the time Sandy gets fired you won’t be a target anymore.
Your issue is really your a young kid who thinks he knows it all and what you think you knew has not come to pass.
No one doubts you will learn and come to the right answer and if you had acted less like an ASS when you originally pumped your know it all chest you wouldn’t be where you are right now!
On the wrong side of Opinion!
says the guy who begged to be the moderator in the chat so he can has his way and can be bias towards a certain group of people?
For those who didn’t know, Jessep is the cleanupshoutbox guy who was being a complete dusshe and bias towards others except his little posse…
Talk about respecting others? Start that yourself, who is the biggest baiter, and instigator in this site. Already trying to use the word slurper as an offensive word in here when all it means is sandy alderson’s lovers, but that is what you’re best at, twist words around so you can have people argue and fight over things when is not nessesary. I hope Joe D realizes the mistake he made in letting you be the moderator and one day sees the type of slimery, slime snake you truly are….
Is that really true?
Wow thats kind of like putting Cancer in charge of the Chemotherapy session if that really happened!
Wel, know you know. the biggest baiter and instigator is in charge of deleting and banning people in the chatroom.. Go figure.. Very disapointing if you ask me, not sure why Joe D was thinking in putting him in some sort of position of power, all he did was get bayonned banned, warn the CORE’s members, banned mets fan224 and that’s it. all this while being bias as hell in allowing donal to roam around free without warning..
Very pathetic and sad to know, but truth nonetheless
I pretty much stay out of the chat room but I do read it every now and then to see when the few slurpers in here all bitch and whine about me in it…
No wonder the attempt to reign in chat hasn’t seemed to work.
Can’t reign in when your only regining in one side and the end result is the nonsense will just spill into the comment section.
That took you 12 minutes.
Continue to blame others for your actions but the proof is right there. I asked you to move on, to try even for a day to be respectful and see if you can have a different opinion without being disgusting or insulting
12 minutes later “then to see when the few slurpers in here all bitch and whine about me in it…”
I don’t blame others…I blame YOU!
You want to bury the hatchet and lower the guns? Fine…YOU FIRST!
Got it. You blame me for your own actions.
Accountability 101.
We will see who budges first from this point on.
Yep I do!
Cause someone in this world needs to show you just what it feels like to have done to them what you did to everyone!
YES it is my Elder responsibility to teach you a lesson and do to you what you did to others and if you had not doen it to others I would not have to do to you what I’m dong now…
IT’S YOUR FAULT!
Don’t start nothing won’t be nothing!
Hey your in charge of cleaning up the Chat how many times have you banned someone for talking about me in a chat I have never once posted in eh?
. Another new tactic from jessup since he hasn’t received today’s fax telling how to lie, whoops, defend the lord. Be nice to the puppets for they know nothing.
Slurping means they are slurping Aldersons Balls. Not baseballs, his beanbag, nutsack.
METS: DARK SANDY RISES!!!!
The Mets will be good again!!!! When my son reaches the league and he is still in sperm form.
Whaever you do DO NOT touch yourself because they will blame your dallliances as the mess that stopped Sandy from buiding a winner and costing us the WS he is destined to get us!
so let me recap what’s been happening:
2011: it was omar’s fault. Sandy’s hand were tied
2012: Money was the excuse. the mets lost $70 million, Sandy did what he could.
2013: Already looking for excuses, the slurpers are nominating the wilponsas the goat to blame..
Never Sandy, it’s always gonna be somebody or something for the demise of this franchise SMH
What’s he supposed to do organize a bake sale to raise money to sign Michael Bourn? They were broke two years ago and apparently still are now…
He is supposed to build a team people want to see so they will pay to see them therefore they won’t be losing money anymore they will be making it and thats where the rest of the money comes from.
Let me ask you a hypothetical….
You open a Store and fill it with Stock.
But no one comes into the store.
Whats your solution? Get stock that costs less but even fewer people want?
Or get the stuff people want to buy so they will come and buy it?
Tell us in the last two years who has Sandy gotten to stock the store that makes people want to go?
Wheeler and what else?
“When approached by reporters at Citi Field over the weekend, principal owner Fred Wilpon referred all questions to general manager Sandy Alderson. But in an interview Tuesday, Alderson said he isn’t sure how much money he’ll have to invest in talent this winter.”
Tell me that doesnt remind you of when you were a kid and you asked your Dad for something and he said,”Go ask your mother” then you ask your mother and she replies,”I dont know, I gotta ask your dad”….LMAO!!!!
Someone said Mets fans are turning into the angry Philly fans and Im starting to believe it…It sucks sucking…it was acceptable in the past when we werent far removed from being an expansion team…Not acceptable now I dont even turn my tv on to watch them anymore games are brutal.
Wow, I just told my wife after reading and participating in the many comments for the ‘Teflon GM’ post how this site was enjoyable. I think I may have spoken too soon. All comments and view points should be made respectfully, that’s called a discussion.Emotional topics require restraint. Hope this site doesn’t disappoint me like several others have.
^.
WASA, welcome to MMO, i will tell you something, part of the reason this site is great is because we have all kinds of diverse mets fans. we have the old school fans, the new school fans, the saber fans, etc, This is the best mets blog there is and i recommend you understand that not always everyone will agree with you on your opinions, however, most of us have a history here and it has not gotten pretty at times, whenever you see someone posting negatively about another poster doesn’t mean that that’s how we are all here, you will find many of us have good baseball knowledge etc, but there has been a huge disconnect lately of fans of this team because they wanna protect their saber lord sandy alderson and animosity has been created. pay no mind to that, as long as you come in here and talk baseball and do not get involved i am sure you’ll be fine.
The CORE salute you…
There is obvious money issues with the organazation, but you guys are looking at it from the wrong perspective. The Mets are in the first year spending under 100 mill in yearrrrssss. They spent 150 mill last year and where almost a identicle ballclub. What makes them different from Oakland and Tampa is that they do have much more money to spend. But spending it wisely is the way to go, not spend to spend. i think this is great and see peices of a team that will win for 5 to 7 years coming soon.They will have to add but it is obvious it will be when Santana and Bay come off the books and thats when they should do it.
The process to building a team that wins and competes for a long period of time is exactly the process that this club is going through now. Phillies 174 mill and they are currently below Mets. Marlins spent huge and they are in last.When the phillies won they followed same process Mets are going through, as did Yankees in the 90s when they had a squad from 96 to 2000. They spent a lot after that to keep their home grown players and only won once since! The way to build is to stock pile prospects and stay away from long term deals.
A rotation of Neise, Gee, Harvey, and Wheeler in 2014 is affordable and beats the market big time. They will play way over what they are paid. They will have excess prospects to trade for other peices. In my view Felix Hernandez will be heading this rotation in 2014, I am not sure what will happen with DIckey, could be traded for other peices or be in this mix. In 2013, 14, 15 they can spend 30 to 40 million and be around the same pay roll with a world series club.
I do expect Alderson to add a catcher and outfielder if not two this off season and some bullpen peices which is hit or miss. They are set at starting pitching. Pelf will come back on minor league deal and maybe another journeyman innings eater. Mejia and Famillia will be there for depth. Just got to go through Santanas last year at 30 mill and Bays 16 mill. If I am paying 46 mill to two players and getting production like I am seeing I am careful with my funds.Hopefully Santana plays well enough to trade him in July and wheeler comes up.
Captain Kirk,Valdespin, Tejeda, Harvey, all got their feet wet this year and Ike and Duda as well got more time. Sometimes it takes a while for a player to reach their potential. If anything they are trade peices for another peice or two that can help. Ike, Wright, Tejeda, Harvey, Wheeler, Neise, and Gee are core of the team going foward, and Dickeyto if he reups as well. I think Dickey should be used to get king Felix Eventually but thats me. I love Murphys but he should be traded as well. This team will take off within these next two years with more depth and better power young pitching, and he will add power bat or two when its time.We do not even know how good Mejia and Famillia can be. They have trade peices and will spend when time is right which is real soon. They will add a peice or to this year or stop gaps till next, but I am not breaking bank on long term deals for Delmon Young and Swisher!! 1 or two year deals!!! Have patience guys its gonna turn around right before your eys.
“Maybe if you’d stop repeating the same 2 topics every single day to instigate a flame war you’d be treated cordially by everyone. You choose to repeat yourself every day. Why else would anyone keep repeating himself but to get an all out flame war started. I’ll take a wild guess tommorow you will beat the Beltran dead horse again and friday the 80′s A;s, saturday Beltran, sunday the 80′s A’s. etc…”
Everybody, see what I mean?
Joey no offense but you just proved him right with your comment in the post game thread. Rinse, Repeat.
Hi TR,
You mean asking if there are some who are now having second opinions about last year based on the growing sentiment by many who said they supported Sandy in the past but now are now too sure? Notice, I made it CLEAR there was no need for either camp to defend or attack the other, that I was only interested if there was a shift in the way some now look back at 2011 based on the history of the front office since that point. In fact, I gave both sides of the argument equal respect, brought up Beningo’s comment and added:
“No need to challenge me on my thoughts or defend your own opposite stance so please no personal remarks – I am only curious how many might be having second thoughts due to the changing sentiment expressed by many of late in relation to the front office and ownership.”
That was not opening up an argument for debate on my part. If everyone simply says “no” I think it was quite clear one you would find no disagreement from me. And to prove that, I won’t even venture a comment even if specifically asked to.
Anything wrong with that?
Hi Jessep,
Can’t comment one way or the other about Frank Cashen since I have not made a study about him. But we both raise valid questions and points over Sandy and his role and whether indeed a new generation can assess player decisions based on less experience and more ability to analize information and trends through saber metric and other new methodologies. I just don’t believe so because of the complexities of the game itself. Nor do I think that one with Rigney’s experience would suddenly take a back seat to one with Sandy’s background. .
But about Sandy’s role in authorizing decisions with Oakland, it is still a matter of interpretation regarding the public statements. For example, your quote:
“Sandy won’t comment or make any decisions until the Series and the roster study is over,” Rigney said. ”That’s been his policy. He wants to see what we need next year and the next year after that.”
It could mean that Sandy is the one who worked out the trades and signings but it could also mean that Sandy was the one who wanted to see what Rigney was requesting, the reasons why, and if the money Rigney was requesting should be given to him.
Also, you do make the point that “Rather than old baseball men, many teams specifically looked for young newcomers who thought differently than “what we always knew.”” but I’ve also read where general managers have said they hired these people more to decipher what other clubs were leaning toward and how to deal with them rather than to access their own personnel decisions (I forwarded that article quite a while ago and it is hard for me to find it but trust me, I did).
As far as the steroids, I think that is a blot on all of major league baseball. I was reading an article in Sports Illustrated where three who never made it to the majors were personal friends with Dan Naulty and did not think anything twice of him suddenly gaining 30 to 40 pounds and adding about eight or nine miles an hour to his fastball. Sure, I think Rigney, Alderson, Selig, Joe Torre were all aware of it despite the fact that it was something players didn’t discuss with each other. In that article Nautly said about half the players in the majors were juiced – who knows how many were but there were things we saw with our own eyes that we understand today were just not humanly possible. As fans, we were told this was due to weight lifting, etc. and that simply there were so few good pitchers out there like before (which year was it that the AL ERA average was 4.99?). Also, many of us did not follow players so closely as to notice their increased body size, including the head and the feet.
So most everyone from the top down either encouraged it or turned a blind eye to it. Absolutely nobody tried doing anything about it – including Bill Rigney who was raving about the power and muscle build of Canseco in many an article I attached back in the mid eighties.