Well put about negotiations not being auctions. Good explanation to laymen who also wish to understand more about this aspect of business practices in general.

As their behavior and statements show, the decisions to dump him, KRod and Beltran were made before spring training camp even opened and the only reason Jose wasn’t sent packing during the season along with the other two is because the Mets screwed things up for Sandy Alderson.
 
It would have been easier for the owners to justify the moves if the Mets played just .500 after that miserable 5-14 start and gone 43-43, giving us a record of 48 and 57.   The team instead playing so unexpedtly well was the only reason why Jose was not sent packing along with the other two at that time. Knowing all along we were not going to re-sign him we could have at least get some other prospects in return (instead of getting nothing as it turned out). But with the anger mounting already about the proposed trading of Beltran after the KRod move, Sandy and the Wilpons knew sending off Reyes would be disasterous as far as support from the fans was concerned – in terms of the turnstile – and it would take years to build back that support, just like it did the Doubledays.

Thats your story and your sticking with it!

Why?
Because then you can blame them and not the actual reason he’s gone…OUR STUPIDITY and Bad Negotiation skills not Reyes’ Agents!

Your ignoring all the facts and merely practicing Self therapy to get over your loss!

Why don’t you tell us all what mistake his agent made and what that mistake cost him and make your point instead of just inferring a mistake or stupidity was in play without any semblence of how it actually hurt reyes?

The guy got MORE than he asked for!
How is that a mistake by his agent and how did that make reyes take less money than we were offerring (which was ZERO!)

Seems to me your selling us on some story that Reyes’ Agent is to blame for his not staying here and it cost him money as if we were willing to pay more tyhan the Marlins…

Some proof of this would go a long way to making your point!

Unless you can prove it was a mistake to not take less money to stay here which won’t fly because the amount of money we offerred would have REALLY been dumb of his agent as Reyes would be playing for FREE if he accepted Sandy’s Non Offer!

No one is saying you didn’t like reyes in fact we are stating just the opposite!

Just as trauma victims tend to shut out the bad memory of thier experience you are concocting a fantasy of WHY Reyes left that does not exist in raslity in hopes of convincing yourself there was no way to keep Reyes it wasn’t our fault therefore any regrets you could possibly have over his leaving was unavoidable!

Truth is it was plenty avoidable but your insistence on not making a play for him is what cost you his services, Not his greed, not his stupidity and not because your strategy was sound but because it was NOT sound!

The only stupidity here was not making a single bid on him and then if he got more money elsewhere you could claim he went for the money!

He didnt’t he went for the offer that was made and since we made NO offer we lost!
Any attempts to protray events differently is all about convincing yourself your strategy about bidding against yourself is NOT at fault for losng a player you liked and wanted to keep!

If you wanted to keep him you should have made an offer!

Sandy didn’t because as we have said and you keep arguing against, He didn’t WANT to keep Reyes and never had any intention of even trying!

If he had he would have made an offer (ANY offer lowball or not) when he had exclusive rights and that was the cheapest reyes would/could have been.

He didn’t!
Becuase he didn’t want him and thats why Reyes is gone not that crap you keep repeating over and over again hoping that the repetition of the fantasy will eventually become accepted as a fact!
You want to rewrite your memories to deal with the trauma of loosing him thats fine but no one else needs this lie to get over the loss!

It’s done and if Reyes turns out to be worth all that money then no fantasy revisionist history on the planet is going to make the decision look good. So if you really want to feel good about what went down start rooting for Reyes to fail miserably and then you won’t need to rewrite history to blame reyes for his leaving when everyone is quite content with the notion that he left because Sandy didn’t want him and time will tell if he was right or not!

But as I said it doesn’t have to be replaced by a single player it could be we get that from our eventual CF replacement for Torres.

Anyone wants to discuss if reyes was worth the contract come talk to me in 6 years cause one year is not enough to say a damn thing. He has what seems like a down year for him (really just a very bad April from what I see) but he could win 5 Batting titles in a row the next 5 years and then what will that contract look like? a STEAL!

As I pointed out yesterday, He’s currently on team that isn’t hitting, He has a .259 Hitter batting behind him and the only two guys who are hitting better than Reyes there are Infante (.289) and Stanton (.282) there isn’t a single .300 Hitter among them.

I would wait to see what note the season ends on and how well he performs through the life of the contract before we can say he has not been worth his contract.

Afterall the Saber Rattlers love to hide behind small samples…Funny how they never seem to shy away from them when it suits them though! LOL

Hi Metsie,

Exactly my point. If it turns out to be a good move by Sandy it would not be on foresight but luck. Sandy planned to dump Jose before spring training camp even opened back in 2011. At that time, we had no real promising prospect or player to just adequately fill those shoes. At best, Tejada appeared to be a defensive replacement because of his inability to hit major league pitching in 2010.

If Sandy was instead negotiating but hesitant to agree to terms at a certain point, based on what Tejada was doing, then it would be a whole different story. But since that was not the case, at most, Sandy lucked out.

He didn’t with his two consecutive master plans to revamp the bullpen – or his people, I should say, since I don’t think Sandy is the one doing the player evaluation and has often said he relies on the advice of his people.

You can’t bid AGAINST something that doesn’t exist!
You can’t bid against yourself unless you have already MADE an offer to bid against a second time around!

You can’t possibly bid against anything unless there is already a bid out there to compete with!
Your theory on this has nothing to do with ‘Negotiation”
Your theory is a theory on Auction not Negotiation.

In an Auction you never make the first bid you wait until someone else sets the price or the Auctioneer is prepared to close bidding because no one else makes a bid and you could get the item at a lower price than your initial.

But in a negotiation there is no Highest bidder gets it. Your not dealing with an EMOTIONALLY DETACHED Auctioneer, Your dealing with the guy who IS what you want (or has it)

In a negotiation the best way to keep the price down is to be the ONLY one making an offer! Supply and Demand and DEMAND sets the price!
Which means the exclusivity is the time to get your discounted price and if you fail and it goes on the open market your stuck paying Market price!

Thats what happened! Not Reyes going for the money because the competition between us and Miami was Miami wins 106 – 0
And if he really wanted more money he would have held out until after the GM Meetings to go and visit those other teams who inquired to see what they were offerring first!

Reyes didn’t go for the money he went to the team that met his salary goals and fit his living location needs and the only reason why they got in was because we refused to negotiate with him at all!

Perhaps he does to Miami what he did to the Nats and the Brewers if we make a reasonable offer during exclusivity!

This fantasy of your is merely to make you feel better about his leaving. You want to blame it on Reyes’s greed and stupidity (like a guy who asks for 100 Mil and gets 106 can be considered DUMB) but the truth is your Negotiation theory failed you because you refused to make any bid at all he took the only bid he was given and THATS why Reyes is a Marlin right now!

Truth is the perception is Reyes is having a down year…But thats not really all that true either. He isn’t having a Batting Title year or his career best, but he is very close to his career averages in most categories.

Jose is really a .280-.290 hitter in most years. he’s currently at .269.
He had a horrible April (.220BA .341OBP) but since then he is back to his old self.
May .297BA .378 OBP
June .283BA .472 OBP

If Sandy manages to find a speedy CF that can hit for .300, get on base and steal a ton of bases Then he will have made up for what he lost with reyes and his decision would be a good one.

Time will tell on all of this and whats done is done as far as I’m concerned….
The only reason I even entered into this further with Des is he keeps reciting this fantasy he concocted of events for no other reason than it makes him feel better about losing Reyes because he can feel we had no shot at him when we had plenty of shot we just refused to take it because he thinks an initial offer is bidding against yourself!

You need TWO bids to bid against anything!
There has to be a competitive bid already out there before you can have an “AGAINST” to compete with!

While I personally was not surprised by him leaving New York and not terribly upset I think it is way too early to gloat over what has happened so far. First off, Jose certainly had a great season numbers wise on 2011 and a first batting title for the franchise but he played hurt for better than 6 weeks down the stretch to win that title and his play was less than inspiring. The biggest thing though was that in 2011 Jose was playing for a free agent contract!

Like so many fans, I thought that despite Reyes talents we should not spend the dollars it was going to take to resign him because of the risk with his injury history and because we still had too many weaknesses to fill. In hindsight, nobody could have felt that Santana and Dickey could have performed the way they have so far.

One thing that is very clear and most likely the reason for Sandy Alderson to be willing to let Jose Reyes go is that he strongly felt that Ruben Tejada was ready to give us a quality shortstop who was going to hit .275 or better and not make any of the “bone head mistakes” that Reyes did at times. Physically, Jose was a delicate thoroughbred race horse but still had not totally matured as a heads up player above the neck!

Having watched Ruben Tejada, I am thinking that he could well hit closer to .300 but regardless I am thrilled that we didn’t resign Jose and decided to give the job to Ruben.

By the time this season is over I would bet that Jose has a better second half if he stays healthy so that all of the skeptics who are still angry that we let him go will have something to bitch about! They were wrong then….and they will be proved wrong over the next few seasons!

Metsie… 100% correct… But him having a terrible season to his standard is making sandy’s desicion to not bid anything like a smart desicion, maybe his best desicion.. wait, maybe HIS ONLY good desicion