15
2012
Sandy Alderson Can’t “Duquette” Out For Help This Year
An article by 
Eight years ago, the Mets came out of the All-Star Break with a win against the Philadelphia Phillies in extra innings. Although they were only two games above .500 at the time, the Mets were in the thick of a tight four-team race in the National League East, with one game separating the Braves (46-42), Phillies (46-42), Marlins (45-43) and Mets (45-43). The Mets then proceeded to lose eight of their next 11 games, losing some ground to their division rivals, but still only five games behind the division-leading Braves.
Despite their struggles, general manager Jim Duquette considered the Mets to be contenders for the division title (at the time, the Padres and Giants were tied atop the wild card standings, with both teams ten games above .500) and decided to upgrade the team in a last-ditch effort to stay in the playoff hunt. “Last-ditch” ended up being an appropriate term for the trades orchestrated by Duquette, as the Mets dug themselves a “ditch” that they could not climb out of, while Duquette didn’t “last” as Mets’ GM, replaced before season’s end by Omar Minaya.
Although there were three trades made by Duquette on July 30, 2004, two of them were connected. The first trade sent top prospect Scott Kazmir to Tampa Bay for starting pitcher Victor Zambrano and reliever Bartolome Fortunato. Although Zambrano had a 35-27 career mark for the perennial basement dwellers in Tampa, his 4.47 ERA and 1.49 WHIP were not exactly top-of-the-rotation caliber.
In 2003, Zambrano led the American League in walks (106), hit batsmen (20) and wild pitches (15). Prior to his trade to the Mets, he was once again leading the league in walks (96) and had hit 16 batters in 22 starts. Clearly, Duquette thought a change in scenery and ten minutes with pitching coach Rick Peterson (as Peterson infamously claimed would be all he would require to “fix” Zambrano) would do the trick. He thought wrong.
Injuries and poor performances limited Zambrano to 35 starts as a Met, as he went 10-14 for the team with a nearly identical ERA (4.42) and WHIP (1.49) as he had in Tampa. Similarly, Bartolome Fortunato suffered from injuries (he missed the entire 2005 season) and poor performances on the mound (7.06 ERA and 1.66 WHIP in 17 career relief appearances for the Mets) and was out of baseball by 2006.
Scott Kazmir, although not as successful as a first round draft pick should have been, still became the Rays’ all-time leader in wins, strikeouts, starts and innings pitched (he has now dropped to No. 2 in those categories, supplanted by current Rays pitcher James Shields). Kazmir also led the Rays to their only World Series appearance in 2008, the same year the Mets finished a game short of the playoffs for the second consecutive season. With a productive Kazmir on the pitching staff instead of fill-ins and journeymen, who knows where the Mets could have gone in 2006, 2007 and 2008?
The other two trades orchestrated by Duquette on that fateful late July day in 2004 featured a player who was barely a Met and a player who now kills his former team with regularity. First, Duquette traded minor leaguer Justin Huber to the Royals for a little-known prospect named Jose Bautista. The Mets then sent Bautista and infielder Ty Wigginton to the Pirates for former No. 1 overall draft pick Kris Benson and infielder Jeff Keppinger.
Bautista has since become one of the most feared sluggers in the major leagues, leading all players with 124 HR since the beginning of the 2010 campaign. Wigginton is not just the last Met to bowl over a catcher at the plate, but he has also become a pretty good hitter in his own right. Since leaving the Mets in 2004, Wigginton has hit 138 HR for six teams. In 30 games (24 starts) against his former team, Wigginton is batting .308 with five HR and 26 RBI. He also owns a .390 on-base percentage and a .560 slugging percentage against the Mets. In 2012, Wigginton has become a one-man wrecking crew versus the Mets in more ways than one. In only 29 at-bats, Wigginton has three home runs and 14 RBIs against the team that sent him packing eight years ago. He also wrecked Josh Thole’s head, sidelining him with a concussion in a (you guessed it) home plate collision with the Mets’ catcher.
Jose Bautista slugs baseballs. Ty Wigginton slugs catchers. Just ask Josh Thole, assuming he can remember.
The two players received for Bautista and Wigginton did not have the greatest success for the Mets during their time in New York. Jeff Keppinger only played in 33 games for the Mets in 2004, spending the entire 2005 season at AAA-Norfolk, before being traded to the Royals in 2006 for Ruben Gotay. Keppinger has become a solid utility player since then. He hit .332 in 241 at-bats for the Reds in 2007, and is now hitting .312 for the Rays in 138 at-bats this season. In six-plus seasons since leaving the Mets, Keppinger is a .283 career hitter.
Kris Benson was never horrible as a Met (14-12, 4.23 ERA, 1.25 WHIP in 39 starts). He just wasn’t what the Mets hoped they were getting. Although Benson was only 30 when he pitched his last game for the Mets in 2005, he went on to win 13 more games in the majors for three teams (Baltimore, Texas, Arizona) before calling it a career to become a successful businessman following the 2010 season.
That brings us to Sandy Alderson and the 2012 Mets. (Finally!) This year’s Mets came out of the All-Star Break a half-game out of the second wild card spot and 4½ games behind the first place Washington Nationals. One sweep to the Braves later, and the Mets find themselves 3½ games out of the final wild card spot and 6½ games out of first.
With all the talk about improving the league’s worst bullpen, maybe Alderson should hold off on making a trade that would only serve to help the team this year. If he is to make a trade, it has to be one that can also help the Mets in the future, not just one that might be too little, too late to help them succeed in 2012.
If the Mets continue to fall in the standings, similar to the way the 2004 Mets did after the All-Star Break, it would behoove Sandy Alderson not to make any drastic moves. There’s no need to sell off the future in a last-ditch effort to remain in contention in the present. The 2004 Mets were around .500 when Duquette became Trader Jim. They finished the season 20 games under .500. This year’s squad might not contend as long as we’d like them to, but they’re also not the type of team who will finish so far under .500 that the general manager will be canned.
That was then. This is now. And Sandy Alderson is a better GM than Jim Duquette. If the Mets don’t gain ground in the standings prior to the trade deadline, I have full faith in Sandy Alderson that he will either not make any trades or he will only deal for a player who will help the team beyond this season. Buying for the sake of buying doesn’t get you anything but the door slammed behind you on the way out. Sandy Alderson knows this, and that’s why he won’t “Duquette” out with other teams for players. He’s a better general manager than that.
About the Author: Ed Leyro
Ed Leyro was hatched in the Bronx, but spent most of his youth in Queens at Shea Stadium. Apparently, all that time spent at Mets games paid off as Ed met his wife (The Coop) for the first time at Citi Field during its inaugural season. Guess the 2009 season was good for something after all. In addition to his work at Mets Merized Online, Ed also owns, operates and is head janitor at Studious Metsimus, where he shares blogging duties with Joey Beartran. For those not in the know, Joey is a teddy bear dressed in a Mets hoodie. Clearly, Studious Metsimus is not your typical Mets blog.
36 Comments + Add Comment
Recent Comments
- blastingzone: on Plawecki Nearing A Promotion From Savannah: Since Travis D has shown himself to...
- Hawk: on Plawecki Nearing A Promotion From Savannah: What is the order of teams below...
- Alex68: on So Where Are All Those Moneyball Players?: I need to be moderator for like...
- Brian: on The 2013 Mets Are Suffering From A Lack Of Accountability: He's been astounding on defense, right? Is...
- Metsie: on So Where Are All Those Moneyball Players?: Phil they could have had Beltran AND...
MMO Mets Chat
Need Tickets To The Mets Game?
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
5390 Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1269 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
How soon all you writers forget. 3 and a half games out…. In July.. Time to give up!!!!!! I guess all the quitters like you enjoyed watching the Braves and the Red Sox in the playoffs last year. Afterall, the Cards and the Rays must have quit being 8 or 9 back at the end of August.
No one’s saying it’s time to give up. But we can’t let 2004 happen again just to make a deal. The Cards and Rays turned things around with their own players. The Mets should be careful in making deals come July 31, so that 2004 doesn’t happen again. Only trades that can help us in the future as well as this year should be made, not just trades to help us now and only now.
That’s not entirely true. The Cards traded for Edwin Jackson, Octavio Dotel, and Rzepczynski. They were key players for the them. They probably wouldn’t have made the playoffs without them.
I agree with Ed, no one says give up but making deals for other teams garbage makes no sense. A lot of people saying we need a catcher who could hit , but no one says who, tell me a catcher who could hit who’s available, bullpen help, again who. Nothing is automatic. Now if you tell me we could make a play for Upton with out giving up Wheeler or Harvey I’m interested, Good Luck with that though
Thanks for the memories and bad memories they were at that. Duquette did all that damage in a matter of six months? But I must disagree with you on holding off. Huston Street or Justin Upton would both help the Mets this year and next as both are under contract. Both those players would make the Mets the class of the NL East this season and it may lead to a division title not just a wild card.
I agree on acquiring players that can help us for years to come (as mentioned toward the end of the post). Upton and Street would be more than acceptable. Right now I think it will take more than one reliever to fix the bullpen. Street alone won’t turn things around.
Agreed on Street alone. But with him as closer and Parnell back to lighter duties I see that as a plus. I believe (or hope is more like it) that Edgin will be a formidable reliever for us as will Beato. Byrdak has been very reliable as a Loogy. I see them as our front five, six when FF comes back.
I’ve been impressed by Edgin. His pitching style reminds me of Billy Wagner. He and Byrdak make a fine two-edged southpaw sword, attacking all lefties who dare face them. (Why was I tempted to use an evil laugh there?)
If Parnell isn’t ready to be a closer now, he probably never will be. I’m more comfortable with him in a lighter role as well. I wish Ramirez and Rauch would stop being so inconsistent. Sandy brought them in to create a formidable bullpen. Instead, they created a mountain of question marks.
“If Parnell isn’t ready to be a closer now, he probably never will be”
Exactly. Forget lighter roles! With Parnell, I’d use him as a chip in an effort to upgrade the bullpen. After all, he’s the “best reliever in the pen”, right?
If we had Kazmir in ’07 and ’08 we would have made the playoffs AND we wouldn’t have had to rush Pelfrey or give Jorge Sosa all those starts.
My wife said the same thing about Pelfrey being rushed. That’s why I’m glad the Mets have been patient with Harvey and Wheeler. I’m unsure if Harvey should be promoted now. Hopefully, Wheeler will remain in the minors until mid-2013 at the earliest. They should only be called up when they have nothing left to prove in the minors.
Pelfrey wasn’t rushed. He just doesn’t have the mental toughness to be a good pitcher at the MLB level. A player who gets rushed, should go back down and want to make it better the next chance he gets. It should make him tougher. This brainwashing about rushing guys is a Sandy Alderson joke. There are plenty of guys who were “rushed” and became super stars. Using a weak guy like Pelfrey doesn’t prove a point, it only shows that he ain’t the guy.
Couldn’t agree more, Gina.
in 2008 we had JOHAN santana, and we still didn’t make the playoffs… We had arguably the worst patch together bullpen.. Wagner went down and there was noone that could’ve predicted how bad the bullpen was,..
Ok, so 1st of all, I don’t think anybody is suggesting to trade our top pitching prospects away(Wheeler and Harvey), like the Mets did with Kazmir. I think people are suggesting to trade B or C level prospects for bullpen help, or catching help…… and maybe a starter to replace Gee.
That’s totally different from what the Mets did with the Kazmir trade. in 04 Kazmir was rated the #12 prospect overall – Trading him would be like us trading Wheeler right now. Nobody is saying to do that.
And was the Benson trade really that bad? I don’t think it was. Sure we traded Bautista, but the team we traded him to gave up on him – I’m sure we would have gave up on him too even if we didn’t trade him because it’s unrealistic to think a team is going to hold onto a player for 6 years when he doesn’t perform.
Also, we went on to trade Benson for John Maine and Jorge Julio. Maine was a good starter for us from 06-08. And Julio was traded for Orlando Hernandez, who was also a good starter for us in the 2006 season. So, the trade actually did help us in the future if you think about it.
Truth of the matter is Benson might have stuck around here longer if he was single…
We seemed at the time more interested in getting rid of his wife than we were in moving him!
And if you ask me the issue with Trading Kazmir had little to do with losing what Kazmir had and a lot more to do with what Zambrano didn’t have!
I think street would be good. These oblique injuries or whatever FF Has are problematic, and he is mediocre anyway. But do not mortgage the farm and let’s see where these guys take us. They have been fun, and they have come back from these kinds of depressing little streaks all year. Remember how many people were thinking they would lost 95+ this year.
Hi Ed,
I think referring to the mistakes Duquette made in 2004 loses sight of what so many teams did over the years in terms of key mid-season deals that improved their clubs without sacrificing the future. A lot of those moves were more in terms of cash and second-tier prospects and fringe players (look at whom we gave up for Santana – Deolis Guerra, Carlos Gomez, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey.
Now, I do not want one of our key prospects traded for just a rental but I cannot imagine our system does not have the Guerras, Gomezes, Humbers and Mulveys to use or cannot afford to part with at least one of our top prospects if, in return, we get another player who will be with us for a few more years.
So to do nothing or to dismantle the team based on what happened in 2004 doesn’t show much in terms of shrewdness of those making the calls, whether it be Sandy himself or his approval of the recommendations made to him by DePodesta and friends.
Excellent post. One I largely agree with.
The voice of reason.
Any deal done in the next two weeks should neither mortgage the future nor cost much in the way of better prospects.
Depending on the next ten days, we might even become sellers of some sort.
First half was fun and better than we could have hoped. Last few series though I believe the injuries piling up and holes we have are start in to be too much to overcome. We shall see….
what you described was what the vast majority of deals this time of year are. basically salary dumps, with lower level guys and/or lower tier prospects in the deal.
trades like Beltran are much rarer (getting as highly ranked prospect back), but he was still just in A ball, and a few years away, so still not giving up a ML ready stud.
and they should be able to add some legit help without costing anything vaguely resembling the “future”
Hope that legit help is a BP arm preferably someone with closer experience.
Wow, I almost spilled my coffee when i read this… Yet another PRO sandy alderson article… Lol.. I mean, this is just amazing.. They guy has done NOTHING, yet the writer of the article wants sandy to basically do NOTHING.. Yeah, Ed, i do not know of you that well, but this article rapidly told me how you see our GM.
This article is wrong in so many levels it’s not even funny.. This team was in clearly bullpen help a month ago, yet you’re smart GM kept sitting on his as$ and did nothing,
Now, you’re being pro sandy because the team got swept? Saying, wait on a trade? Nobody is saying go trade wheeler or harvey for bullpen help, but at least do something… this team with that GM are not going anywhere, he’s a small market GM who is clearly way past his prime, He has not idea how to run this club, He has done absolutely NOTHING to help this team, and yet you seem to like the idea of him not doing anything, Not sure why you gotta take a shot a Duquette in order to make sandy look good, it’s like comparing a garbage with garbage… And please look up vinny’s comment on why your shot at duquette is very unfair, at least he TRIED to acquire players to help the mets, sandy has DONE nothing whasoever, and whatever he’s brought in… Yeah, absolute GARBAGE… Keep your fingers cross for wheeler, that’s the only guy who can salvage this GM.
Amazin, you KNOW he ain’t gonna do sh**, yet you’re praising him and encouraging him…
Fail on this article..
don’t the 3-4 guys cycled through to try and help the pen count as doing something? You make it seem like the same 7 guys have been out there all year.
It just does not happen that teams cut a bunch of veteran guys without options after 1 month and try to replace nearly the entire pen. It just can’t happen, unless you want to see Elvin ramirez closing, with Hampson setting him up!
Yeah stick, give him credit for the offseason heroics to build the pen. Brought in pieces of broken down garbage and stuck us wiuth a guy going to be released for CF to get the garbage from the Bay area bullpen.. You want to give Sandy credit for the pen. BE OUR GUEST!!!!!
What’s more amazing to me is, how many excuses these people keep coming up with.. to bring in a Gm who was here for like 2 weeks and comparing him to sandy’s situation should tell you ALL YOU NEED to know about how low some of this people would go in order to defend sandy alderson…
2 years of pure crap and people STILL somehow defend this guy and are willing to take a bullet for him, it’s just amazing.. I’ve never seen anything like this in my life…
Missed the point again.
Alex seems to think that the entire pen should have been released by May. Can’t happen. The worst offenders though (Acosta) were removed though.
real Basesball just does not work like the fantasy world. You can’t release guys as soon as they have a rough stretch. There will never be enough viable replacements. Plus teams aren’t going to pay 3 guys to filll the same roster spot.
so, you cut where you have no choice (Manny, DJ) and juggle your internal (guys you can call up) options
and usually, you give guys some time to get out of a poor patch. Like Francisco. Rough start, but since mid-May he has been very, very solid.
But, this is reality. Much better to add to the conversation by running around waving your hands in the air, cursing and chanting “sandy sucks”.
oh, and not everyone that understands how the world works is a blind Sandy disciple that hates the Mets but loves their “God”!
Stick, often you’re wrong.. couldn;’t be more wrong on this one, noone, nor me is advocating that the mets cut the whole bullpen by may, most of us KNEW the moment the mets acquire all this guys that we were gonna be in trouble, not only did we overpaid, but the results are anything but good.. this is not second guessing like the author is doing, this was something we knew was gonna happen, if the mets were gonna go the cheap rout or short term on guys, might as well try the good ones, i mean, rauch got $3.5 million to be a set up guy, Broxton who was an all star this year signed for $4 million.. Stuff like that made you scratch your head at the time.
Izzy is having a good year, might’ve stick with him instead, but no, all the excuse makers for sandy sees everything he does as a good thing.. Including that infamous day in which he acquire all 3 bullpen guys and that Bum CF we got….
Keep drinking the well expired koo aid sandy is serving..
stick: I think what people who like to act like the bullpen puts a target on SA’s back do not realize is that heading into the Winter of 2012, the Mets didn’t really have a bullpen.
People want to talk about KRod or Isringhausen (whom they probably mocked when he was signed) but those days are past us. You cannot talk about being mad about Frank Francisco’s $ value and then say you want KRod who would make what, 3 times more money?
The problem isn’t that he did try to rebuild the pen, the problem is that he HAD TO rebuild the pen. They got guys like Ramirez, Rauch, Francisco, Byrdak again because they had so many holes.
The bullpen is all about sample sizes. For example nobody is mentioning that Ramon Ramirez has had 1 bad outing since May 16th. Or Jon Rauch has had 1 bad outing (Yankees) since June 12.
I understand they struggled early on, but this isn’t April. April’s gone. You can’t only judge them based on a few April/May outings.
Well stick if thats what you call doing something then Ed is right, we had better not let Sandy do anything!
First things first regarding the Kazmir trade… I don’t think it’s fair to compare Duquette’s situation to Alderson’s. (Or to mention trading Bautista, nobody could have seen this coming) With that said though, I think some people are missing the point… he’s suggesting they shouldn’t trade for the sake of trading and only make a “go for it” deal if they have a legit chance.
That’s all he’s saying.
As for the Kazmir deal… the Mets were RIGHT about Kazmir. The problem was they didn’t sell him based on the hype, they got beat in the deal because they were quick to get rid of him. The problem wasn’t THAT they dealt him it was what they got for him.
You sould re-read that because what he said was we shouldn’t make a deal unless it helps MORE than just this season and it should not involve players who we are counting on in that future as important pieces (read Harvey and Wheeler)
Which would translate to:
No deals for Rentals we have no intention of paying to stay
No Deals for kids who could play next year for players who even if they stay will serve a much lesser role than those kids. (read Street)
And I bet you would agree with those sentiments…(I do somewhat as well)
Nice article by Ed Leyro. Thanks.
I wasn’t sure if you were going to be tongue-in-cheek when you discussed Kris Benson:
“Kris Benson was never horrible as a Met (14-12, 4.23 ERA, 1.25 WHIP in 39 starts). He just wasn’t what the Mets hoped they were getting.”
Yup, Ed, he wasn’t what the Mets hoped for, but then again the Mets got more than they hoped for with Anna Benson. Sports reporter Murray Chass said: “Kris Benson doesn’t have a good enough arm for the Mets to overlook his wife’s mouth. … And by trading Anna Benson, the Mets may have achieved what [former Yankees manager] Casey Stengel called addition by subtraction.”
Well Ed while I tend to agree somewhat with the sentiments your trying to say there is one statement I have to call you out on…
What Criteria were you using to say:
“And Sandy Alderson is a better GM than Jim Duquette.”
Truth is at least Duquette was trying to be pro-active he just failed to get back enough.
Sandy seems to be nothing but RE-Active.
He waits for something to happen and then deals with it!
And now he has come to a point where something happened he can’t easily deal with which is why Batista is likely to get a start before Sandy comes up with a solution for Gee!
Glaciers move faster than this front office and the few times they have gotten players they went after the guys they got only added to the problems and didn’t solve a thing.
ABout the only player who hasn’t added a problem we have had to deal with is Wheeler and we won’t know how that turned out for another year at minimum.
Unless Sandy’s lack of movement and action forces him to start him this year!
And all it would take is one shoulder of Young or Santana blowing up for that to happen!
Mets bullpen:
11-18 4.90 14 Blown Saves 22 Saves 1.50 Whip Strikeout to Walk Ration 1.96
Sandy’s main 3 guys (that made him have a good day back in november) Combined numbers: 6-11 4.15 8 blown saves 96 IP 96 hits and 37 BB allowed, 81 K’s.
not sure why anyone will say that they’re pitching well as of late, games in april count as much as games in september no??
Since again you’re talking about what I said and trying to act like you’re not replying to me… I’ll respond.
You can’t change what happened in April. Can you?
Here’s how I’ll answer that.
The Mets have the worst hitting 1B in baseball.
Is that true?
You get on me for saying I wanted Ike to go down to the minors in May/June which still could have helped by the way… but if I said that statement to you “The Mets have the worst hitting 1B in baseball. ”
Would you respond to me in agreement because he hit .169 through May 31st this year or would you focus on the fact he hit .264 in June?
If you’re going to focus on his June AB’s and his “recent swings” as we make excuses for him, then why can’t I focus on more recent outings for the bullpen?
While our 1B has been struggling, he’s not costing us as many games as the bullpen have… if anything, our defense is a little bit better because of him, so he has helped in a positive way.. Not to mention as bad as he looks, he still has 13 Hr’s and 50 RBI, not comparing but joey votto has 14 Hr’s and 49 RBI…. But of course, you will only focus on the negative from Ike davis… Would be surprised if that wouldn’t be the case…