31
2012
Owners Are Footing The Bill On Bay, While The Team Pays The Price
An article by Doug Branch
In Doug’s Dugout today, we simply vent (mostly about Jason Bay and management).
Something is rotten in Denmark, my fellow furry Mets fans. Suddenly, since the second half bell rang, the Mets hierarchy (i.e. Sandy Alderson) has demoted multiple (young) Mets outfielders with the regularity of a Jason Bay strikeout. What in the heck is going on here?
Allow me to enlighten you: Remember when Alderson and manager Terry Collins proclaimed that salary would not be a factor when he came to divvying-up playing time for the outfielders? Or was I dreaming when that was declared?
Mets’ management’s stance was a noble one and right on the mark. However, they have un-pitched that tent solely with their actions. While sending down Lucas Duda and Kirk Nieuwenhuis has merits, (they have both struggled mightily-but is it their fault this team is overloaded with lefty hitters?) keeping the current left-fielder awash in at-bats is NOT.
How can you justify sending Bay out there day-after-pitiful day and it not be about the $18 million they are gifting him this season? Basically, we were fed some poppycock by Alderson and Collins. Who would you vote to see strike-out on a daily basis: Duda, Nieuwenhuis, or Bay? The answer is the latter, in a landslide.
He’s like that rusting Chevy Impala in the next door neighbors’ yard – A Darn Eyesore.
Moreover, if Bay had given an iota of cover for the young left-handed hitting gunners, maybe they wouldn’t have succumbed to the daily pressures, and not be shot to pieces like an opposing soldier in Call of Duty.
After all, every team in creation has bombarded the Mets with lefty starters (and relievers) and that was supposed to be Bay’s bailiwick, no?
Start a lefty against us and Bay, who once had hit lefties like nobody’s business (sometime after the invention of the telephone, it seems) and you’d see the board light up like a pinball machine.
That was the theory. But Bay has failed miserably for over 2 1/2 years in Blue and Orange. Now we are told it’s coming to a head with the return of Mike Baxter (oh, another lefty!). That Bay’s time as a starter is running out. Maybe.
Here is what Collins said yesterday about Bay:
“You continue to watch him take batting practice and he continues to show you the power is still there,” Collins said. “Now it’s just a matter of making sure mechanically he gets his feet on the ground and he gets his hands in the correct position to attack the baseball.”
Terry, perhaps in year 4 of his downtrodden disastrous Mets tenure he will get his feet on the ground (and I’ve got some beautiful swampland for sale in New Jersey). As Allen Iverson, the 76ers shooting guard once uttered, “Practice? You talking ’bout Practice?”
Bay, 34 in September is shot.
Furthermore, so are the nerves of Mets fans. The numbers don’t lie. Mired in an 0-22 slump going into last night’s game, he was fast approaching the 0-24 career high (or low) mark he established last season.
Who says he hasn’t improved in his Mets career? I must continue because these numbers are astounding.
Bay’s third longest O-fer streak also came last year when he was 0-20. Since he returned from the DL (I’ve lost count) he is 4-35, a .114 batting average. He is the only major league player with 110 or more plate appearances hitting below .160 and less than 10 RBI’s.
Finally, I have saved the best for last: This season he is hitting .159, .238 OB %, .310 slugging (.489 career), with EIGHT RBI, and 5 HR (all but one solo). And the Mets have the audacity to say money is not an issue in reference to playing time?
I guess inflation accounts for the depreciation of $18 million. Please, don’t tell me that’s it raining while you are peeing down my back.
If I was Duda, and now Nieuwenhuis I’d be more than perturbed. I’d be livid that Bay is still taking up precious cargo space in a lifeboat lost at sea.
Thoughts from Joe D.
I’ve said this a few times already. There is no doubt in my mind that the only thing keeping Jason Bay in the lineup is his salary. If this was Scott Hairston he would have been released in a New York minute. Lucas Duda and Kirk Nieuwenhuis, who were both outperforming Bay have already been ousted.
That malarkey Sandy Alderson and Terry Collins fed us about fielding the team that gives us the best chance to win was just more lip service to separate themselves from Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel. Telling fans what they want to hear is always a good play.
Unfortunately, in two years with Alderson at the helm we’ve seen two things that dictates who gets the most playing time on this team: money and whether they were organizational acquisitions.
D.J. Carrasco was finally released long after he wore out his welcome. Ronny Paulino was an obvious fail from day one, but remained the Mets backup catcher until the bitter end. Even last week they were still trying to force Pedro Beato into a bullpen role without much success.
We have a right hander on the mound in the next two games, and there’s a good chance Bay will get the starts. Why wouldn’t he? That’s been the case all season long on the rare days that Bay hasn’t been in the infirmary.
I’m still convinced that it’s no coincidence that the Mets had a reversal of fortune as soon as Bay was activated from the DL and force fed into a lineup that had been scoring timely runs and winning ball games. It’s if as though a malaise set in since that day and the team forgot to have fun. The hitters are all getting into bad habits again including David Wright as they all try to compensate for the lack of production from middle-of-the-order-hitter Jason Bay. He has had a debilitating effect on the team chemistry.
About the Author: Doug Branch
Doug has been sports writing since 1983. He first wrote about the Mets at spring training that year, and his first interviewee was surly catcher Ron Hodges. He currently writes for Mets Inside Pitch, among other magazines published by Scout Publishing-which is owned by Fox Sports. He began following the team during the Wes Westrum era, and redeemed many Borden milk coupons for free Saturday baseball. The night of Tom Seaver's imperfect game against the Cubs, he was in line to buy a ticket when the windows slammed shut and abject disappointment ensued.
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Forget Bay’s numbers for this year or years past….. and keeping him in left is not about the money. Think long term…..2013…2014……it’s all about the future.
Next year is the last year of his contract. Bay will “recover” hit .310 with 100 RBIs and 30 HRs.
If the Mets are in contention he will lead the offense and give great “cover for the young left-handed hitting gunners” who will benefit from playing full time for the next five weeks in AAA until the September call up.
Next year, he will provide experienced leadership in playoff race and/or with the youngsters pushing hard for increased playing time, he will bring back a decent prospect at the trade deadline.
Give Sandy Alderson a lot of credit for sticking to a long term plan of build a winning franchise and not yielding to the pressure short term success.
Glad to see I am not alone. There may come a time to dump him, but doing it now serves no purpose other than satisfying the frustration of the fan base.
Kenny, the Mets have been on a long term plan for winning since 2007. I have been on cardiac arrest since 1977, with 1986 being my only lifeline and that has a 30 year expiration date (2016). I love my Mets but this organization needs to be torn down from the top. This ownership has sold us a complete bill of goods for some time now. First they say it’s the GM’s, then the managers, then it’s the players, then the medical staff, then it’s the market, now it’s the finances. I think we are the real victims of the “Wilpon ponzie scheme” they keep trotting out every year sadly, we keep falling for the “Okie Doke”. The one constant that keeps them from another championship is the ownership. It has not changed and they have not won. I will not invest a dime on the current Met regime. When I come home to NY, I do not go to games any more, I’ll watch from my Mom or sister’ home. Living in Atlanta, I don’t order MLB package at $155.00 a season any more because the Mets have done nothing to help me justify the spending. I hate the Braves so imagine the torture I must endure all season long. I hope this was just a rough July for the Mets and they get it together and finish strong but you have to agree this is just a sad state of affairs.
Kenny from the bronx,
Am I reading this right, did you just say:
“Next year is the last year of his contract. Bay will “recover” hit .310 with 100 RBIs and 30 HRs.If the Mets are in contention he will lead the offense and give great “cover for the young left-handed hitting gunners” who will benefit from playing full time for the next five weeks in AAA until the September call up.”
WHAT!?!?!?!? o_O Is this bizarro world! Where everything is backwards?
Jason Bay sucks, but to say that his return has caused Dickey, Niese, Santana and Young to pitch worse than they did before and caused Gee to have a blood clot in shoulder is ridiculous.
I too would like to see him removed from the roster, but that is not going to happen and given how over the last month or so, Kirk has actually been worse than Bay and bats LH, there was no reason to keep him on the roster and Duda has been worse than Bay when you factor in defense.
We need to hope Duda can regain his stroke and they finally move him to LF so we can finally replace him…
LOL Oleo werent you the one who said he would improve the mets offense versus LHP….lol…how’s that working out
Lol. I knew the SOB was gonna play against RHP too. 18 million reasons why.
The difference between Jason Bay and Hairston, Duda, and Nieuwenhuis is that they never had a 30 HR, 100 RBI performance in the major leagues. Bay did it consistently for six years before coming to the Mets – the Mets will not simply give up on him like those other guys because he has proven to perform at this level. It’s not only his salary that keeps him in the lineup, or on the NY Mets, it’s his past history. If you were invested that much in a player you would not simply release him and pay him that amount of money. It’s easy to say that when it’s not your money on the table. If you are already paying him, you hang on to him in hopes that he turns this mess around.
No vitriol here, Mitch; violence is merely in my disagreement with you. In all fairness, how long do you keep trotting him out there, believing he will get better because of his past performances?
As long as they are paying him $100,000 a game. Let’s face it…the options are limited. Kirk N. Is a strikeout machine…was in the minors and nothing has changed. Duda, who seemed to hit lefties earlier no longer did. His defense may have contributed to his loss of confidense and effected his offense. Duda performed much better last year when playing first base. Might be time to package Ike with whomever for some outfield help. Arizona might love to have Ike playing in their heat dome.
They keep playing him until they have a RH OF that is better than him. Considering their closest option is fringe prospect Juan Lagares in AA and Duda has forgotten had to hit, Bay will be here for a while
Vitriol is definitely the word of the day…had to look that up lol…I know bay has been awful but if this guy gets back to his old self with another team it will be a slap in the face. I just find it hard to accept this guy went from awesome to suck over night and showed no signs of declining before.
The question at this point is it’s been 3 years waiting for him to get it back…How much longer before you let someone else waste PAs trying to sort him out?
When they return from this west coast trip, I suspect that the few remaining Mets fans will be at the gates of Citi Field with torches and pitch forks.
Running him out there day after day could be dangerous to management.
disagree. there are still Met fans that root for the team and the players. I love baseball and the Mets; yes I want them to do better but I still come to the game and cheer. No slumping player or bad decision can steal my love for the game away.
Agree 100%
I know I am in the minority here, but I can’t really blame the Mets for what they are doing – and I don’t think it is about the money per se.
Probably will get beat up (and deservingly so) for making this comparison, but it’s like a marriage – you don’t decide to get a divorce and leave your wife and kids until you are 100% certain. You spend time hoping against hope that things will get better, but you should wait until it is perfectly clear that it wont work out.
Listen, no doubt Bay has been an absolute failure, and he has had his playing time cut (until recently). But the Bay of Boston and Pittsburgh is a much better player than Kirk, Baxter, Valdy and anyone else on the Mets. Before the Mets throw him to the curb, they just need to be 100% certain that he is done. Keep in mind, his decline may be unprecedented in the sport; I can’t think of another player in his early 30′s that seemingly lost it (for ever) overnight. There have been flashes like Mark Fydrichs or Joe Charboneau (injury) or even the Brady Andersons of the world where the steroids wore off, but I can’t think of another player that completely lost it overnight.
Forget about the money, if Mets released him last month and he went and signed with the Braves or Whitesox (someone will pick him up) and somehow he did well, the Met fan base would be saying “look at him now, why did they have to release him? couldn’t you just bench him?!?” Maybe I am crazy, I just can’t believe that he is completely done and that he will come back and be a ++ player.
If it was me, I would play him the entire road trip, and if he shows no sign of improvement, call him and his agent in his office and tell him to either accept an assignment to the minors or get released. I would have to think he’d accept a trip to the minors – because if he is released, he has no chance of meeting his $16m vesting option for 2014. Who knows, maybe that’s exactly what is the plan – does seem odd that he’s playing more on the road trip than before.
I understand everyone’s anger and frustration, but i am not sure there is a better way to do it. I don’t think it is the money, I think it is the potential contributions he could make if he is the Bay of old… kinda like that lottery ticket you keep in your glove compartment that you haven’t gotten around to check, you keep it just in case its a winner (OK another bad analogy)
And lets be real, it’s not like they have another great option. Kirk has struck out like 60% of his last 40 AB, JV is an emerging player and has been good as a part timer and is one temper tantrum away from the DL, Baxter is a great piece…
Well said.
Let me know when the Boston Bay or Pittsburgh Bay returns.
Gee, you guys love his play so much why don’t you have Jessup call lord and have him offer Jason an extension!!!!!!!!! Nothing like building for the future with guys like Bay and Hairston. Keep on cheering and keep on paying the Wilpons for a crap product. Reading these blurbs, it is obvious too many Met fans deserve a mediocre team.
Obviously the Mets are praying that Bay hits enough for even a short period of time that they can dupe some other team into taking him for anything. They are praying they don’t have to eat the entire remnants of his horrible contract.
And, to make matters worse, the trade deadline has no effect on this, because Bay will pass through waivers, so the Mets could trade him just as easily on September 30th as they could on July 30th. So that could mean we will still see Bay in the lineup almost every day for the rest of 2012.
I think this is a big mistake, because first, it’s galling and disheartening to the players and fans, and second, Bay has proven conclusively that his skills are shot. The Mets would be better off keeping him on the bench, giving him occasional at bats against lefties, or trying him as a pinch hitter.
Worst case, he’d continue to stink as much as he does now, but he’d get fewer AB to kill the team. Best case, he’d perform better in a limited role, which may actually trick some other team into taking him off our hands for something better than a complete salary buy out.
Or, maybe the players expect that the veterans get treated with some sort of respect earned from their career (reflected in their contract), so they think it is normal for bay to be starting. Since he is the starting LF on the team, just like Wright is the starting 3B and would not expected to be benched if he was having a bad year.
Just a few comments…
First off Duda demotion makes sense and lost his roster spot as much for his bad glove and RF play as his hitting. If he was not a liability with his glove he probably would have been allowed to work his bat issues out up here.
Kirk makes a little less sense, He hits better than Torres and is also a better fielder than him and there is no one left BUT Torres to play CF. Valdespin is being tried there. Keep your fingers crossed on that one, risky to put a guy who is new to the OF out there in CF. But the truth of the matter is thats probably a pretty good position for him and if he fills it well that leaves us options to trade Kirk for a RH Corner OFer.
But both thier demotions are as much to do with getting Hairston, Bay and Valdespin as much playing time as possible than anything to do with the players who got sent down themselves.
What Sandy is doing is using the rest of the season to see who will be the RH Power bat going into next season. Hairston is not just playing for an extention anymore he is playing (and being played) in the hopes he can become that RH Power bat that Sandy refuses to make a trade for just as Valdespin is going to audition for the CF position we have all thought we needed since Pagan was traded.
They are giving Bay the rest of thier lost season to earn his way onto the 2013 Roster as a backup plan to Hairston not earning a regular role and merely a platoon role instead.
I predict Bay will at somepoint return to what everyone thought he was…But that probably won’t happen until he sees a change of scenery.
As for blaming Collins on Bay well look at the demotions and tell me what choice did Sandy leave him? Sure terry has backed bay to the media but then again what do you want him to say? I will point out that he has dropped hints that Bay would lose playing time before he got behind him which says to me Sandy is the one insisting on playing Bay not really terry.
In the end if you don’t like the players that are being played you can’t hang it all on the Manager, He can only start the guys available to him on the roster. And he doesn’t set the Roster, Sandy Does!
Why do people think this is somehow a Met thing? Veteran stars get big contracts, and because of their status (career accomplishments, not just $$) they get the deference to keep their job as long as possible. Plus, Terry is correct, in that this year he never really had a long enough stretch of PT to prove if he had anything left.
Why is this different than Ike? He was terrible for 2 months, but everyone thought he needed time to get his stroke back.
So, Bay still has a short window to try and prove he can still hit, at least lefties. if not, he will get benched.
and speaking of lefties, he actually did him them OK last year. He just doesn’t hit RHP any more at all. so expect baxter to take those ABs away at least.
and there is a $ reason to not cut him now. If I understand the rules, if they release him they have to pay the rest of the contract out now. So, they have to cut a check for what, 20mill right now to make him go away? may not have that in the bank!
so, his time has to be running out, but not hard to see why he has gotten treated the way he did. But I don’t see any way in hell he is on the roster next OD.
I’m going to quote my Mother here…
If everyone jumps off a bridge does it mean that you should too?
Sure a lot of teams continue to play their expensive failures but that doesn’t make it a smart thing to do!
If this was a one year thing then you would do what you could to get him back on track. But this is pretty much a three year slump now!
Insantity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!
To blame the poor hitting and the losing on Bay is rewrong. The reason why he was rushed back was because the team had gone into a funk and the needed a bat to get some life back and they were had dreams that Bay could do that.
I’d still argue that Bay was hitting the ball better at the start of the season and afther his first stint bavk from the DL. His timing was a little off so we didn’t see postive results, but i saw some hope that he could turn it around. Sadly, once it looked like his timing was down, he got injured and set everyting back.
My biggest problem with the Bay situation is how the Mets have rushed him back both times from the DL. Bay has had a ton of problems here and the last thing Bay needed, the team needed and us fans needed is to see him trying to get on track and fail. Anything positive I saw from the start of the season is gone. His timing is off, he’s taking too many pitches and fallin g behind in the count. It seems like every AB he’s automaticly down 0-2…you can’t hit that way. I ussualy don’t agree much with Kinner, but he was right about Bay…look at how many 1st pitch fastballs he takes for striks!
Bay should have stayed in AAA until he got his timing down and started hitting. You can’t keep missing months of the season, get a dozen A-ball AB’s and come back and hit MLB pitching.
but thats just the problem here USMF…
When you need a bat you bring in a Bat not a gy who has struggled for three years at being a bat!
Duda was forced into RF cause of his bat, he did play a good 1B while Ike was out but is too slow and does not have the quickness to make decisions in a big area like RF, he needs to be in LF and hopefully he regains his confidence in Buffalo and replaces Bay in Sept and next year.
Bay should be sitting and Baxter playing tonite wth Torres, who does an awesome job in CF, and maybe Hairston or Spin in RF though they both don’t have the arms but TC can’t continue to put this team in a hole with Bay, who once again showed last night that he can’t hit, but when he gets on base he runs bases good and steals a base here and there, WHEN HE GETS ON BASE!
He is playing because of his contract plus SA not finding another RH bat in off season or look to develop one over the last year and a half a RH bat knowing that most of lineup is LH heavy, this falls on him for seeing this, this is what a GM gets paid for, future not just this year.
Yes Bay is not the sole reason for team playing bad but it sure would of helped in a few games for him to hit a SF, move a runner over, get in a runner from 3B with less than 2 outs, he has failed on more than one occasion when he could of picked up those batters that had been carrying him for most of year but no he returns, too soon, and is back to striking out, popping out, hitting ground balls or hitting into DP then walking away with a Lost in Space look.
Yes Bay is not the reason but he needed to be part of the solution not one trying to skate on the backs of those that have playing since Day 1.
Money speaks to a GM who supposedly practices Moneyball, interesting isn’t it!
Point blank Bay is hurting the Future of the Mets. Duda whom most mets fans here were calling the next coming of….was awesome last year hitting both Righty and Lefty pitching and not striking out a lot he was sound prospect playing LF and 1B. I can not blame him for his struggles due to the Mets moving him to RF a position he has never played and is usually delegated to athletic OF which Duda is not. You dont put a guy in a no win situation especially a young prospect trying to find his niche in the pro’s…
Bay should of been the one to move to RF initially he was the better defender and far more athletic than Duda. Duda should of been planted in LF the place where most teams put there all BAT little glove players. It is no coincidence that the Mets defense is horrible all the blame should be placed squarely on the shoulders of Sandy Alderson and Terry Collins. They are the reason these players(Duda,Murphy,Valdespin) are playing out of position. I listened to a radio interview where Alderson stated that Valdespin was a part of the future and hopefully his position would be CF!!! Really CF!!! If you are the GM and you have envisioned Valdy as your future CF why has he been playing everywhere but CF…He has played 2B,SS,LF,RF and a little CF when he was sent down he played numerous games at 2B and DH…How do you expect him to learn a new position if he isnt thrown out there everyday in the minors???
Terrible job by the GM the Mets are a patch job….Sandy forcing Square pegs in round holes with a hammer, then when things fall apart blaming the pieces for being faulty.
The Mets are losing money because when playoff hunt time comes around they are never in it…Majority of Mets fans realize this franchise doesnt care about winning just being competitive enough to get some excited to come to games…Hell, Fred Wilpon said it himself numerous times…just wants to be competitive while cross town the Stankees and there fans just want to WIN at all cost.
There’s a lot of truth to this Leroy. Especially the way they’ve used Valdespin. CF seems to be the only logical position for him and they should’ve been experimenting with it a long time ago. Plus we have a bunch of 1B/LF types already on the 25. These are the things about Alderson I don’t like.
Last year, Jason Bay said he was willing to play CF….moving Lucas Duda to LF…where he belongs…
This year, Lucas Duda, the slowest player on the 25 man roster…played in RF the entire time he was here…never once did he play LF…the reason ( or excuse ) the folks at metsblog gave was that he should get comfortable in RF…switching him would only confuse him…
Duda defensive-wise statistically was the WORST RF in ALL OF BASEBALL
Since I got banned from Metsblog for criticizing ownership….I figure I can ask you good folks out here…
if we are to be thinking of the future…and moving Duda to LF and Bay to RF would cost no money…why has Sandy not thought of doing this?
hell if we are thinking of the future…why are we platooning our young kids instead of having them learn how to hit lefties…
if we are thinking of the future…why are we holding on to pieces that serve us absolutely no good for 2013….
If we are thinking of the future…why did we NOT sign our 2nd round draft pick?…the difference was like 53K…
The Phillies are reloading…
The Marlins are reloading…
The Wilpons…not so much…
It’s not just his salary guys … it’s what his salary represents. Jason Bay was a perennial 30 homerun guy with 100 RBI’s. Can you say the same about Hairston? That is why the Mets would not wait as long for Hairston.
The other key reason they are still hoping beyond hope with Jason Bay is because he hasn’t really been healthy for any extended period of time, and they are praying that he just needs to find himself again. He’s only had 130 plate appearances this year, wrapped around injuries. Last year he had 500 PA’s, but was injured multiple times. The last time he had 500-600 consecutive plate appearances without missing time was in 2009 with Boston.
Lastly, the other reason why the Mets have given Bay extended chances is because they have no one in the organization, aside from Hairston, that is effective against left-handed pitching. If there were some right-handed equivalent of a Duda or Kirk, they would probably be playing already, but as it stands, Jason Bay (as bad as he has been), isn’t really any worse than any of the other young lefties we have available when it comes to getting hits off of LHP.
I have to agree with you here. It’s not just the salary, it’s the possibility that the .280-30-100 version of Bay comes out which is better than anything the Mets have here in the majors or minors.
After the trade deadline the NL East looks like a family with some family members with mansions and some living in the slums. The Nats, Braves are elite and the Phillies, Mets are Marlins are nothing more than whipping dogs for the rest of the division and division teams competing for the playoffs to PAD their won/lost record and give their regulars a rest when they play us. Now if you are a loyal Mets fan or Philly or Fish fan how does this make you feel? Why would you pay to go to the park to see your team being humiliated and you know the outcome (look at the Mets record since the all star break). But how does Selig and MLB look at this situation. The Mets lost 70 million dollars last year and will be the same this year. I support the Mets with merchandise sales and other purchases since I live in Georgia and not able to get to games but this is like driving into a two mile tunnel and as you enter the tunnel your lights go out. This is not good!