An article by 
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
132 Comments + Add Comment
NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
Recent Comments
- Corporal Klegg: on Mets Acquire Eric Young Jr. For Collin McHugh, DFA Cowgill and Promote Brown: i don't think this is a bad...
- Alex68: on Wheeler Deals, Mets Sweep Braves In Nightcap, 6-1: Idiot" are...
- Corporal Klegg: on Wheeler Deals, Mets Sweep Braves In Nightcap, 6-1: Where is Teddy Klein on this? Oh...
- jessep: on Mets Acquire Eric Young Jr. For Collin McHugh, DFA Cowgill and Promote Brown: I like this deal because they gave...
- Pburke: on Matt Harvey: The Mets’ Number One Badass: Respect your elders man. Show some...
Latest From Mets Minors
Check Out These Great MLB Links!
Photographs From Gordon Donovan
Fans Follow Us On Twitter!
1333 Fans Like Us On Facebook!
2341 Fans Read Our Feed!
1702 Fans Subscribe via Daily Email!
The Wright Stuff.
CLUTCH!!!!!!! WRIGHT FOR MVP!!!!!!!!!!
David Wright. Nothing more needs to be said.
Unclutch my ass!
Whooo nice touch with the MMO myspace pics! WHOOOOO!
WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW! This is so great!!! LETS GO METS BABY!!!!!!
Perfect Post Joe D.
Papelbon gets burned again! Wright had an Omir Santos moment! I love it! LGM!!!
You gotta believe everybody!!!! Lets Go Mets!!!
How is that for clutch??? I hope this will shut some people up for the rest of this season!! It’s a disgrace that Wright isn’t starting in the ASG, but real baseball fans know the vote was hijacked. Great win tonight.
The BEST part is Alex and Bayonne, in their caves of self-hatred, wishing it could have been anyone but Wright.
Ain’t that the truth!
Yes, it is!
There you go baiting them in with insults but when they reply…you’ll cry foul and asked for them to be banned for personal insults…
Wright was clutch today how about just enjoying that…I guarantee if/when he doesnt come up clutch in these situations you wont comment on that
Enjoy the moment rather than start a debate about …how much times Wright’s been clutch vs how much times he has choked…I Guarantee you wouldnt win that argument…
Enjoy the Win! Stop trolling
Exactly!
And when they reply they will complain and accuse them of starting it when the snark crosses into some other thread!
Don’t Start nothin won’t be nothin!
The New York Mets
- Jonathan Papelbon’s father since 2009
Heckuva game folks!!! MMO, those graphics and this post are spot on! Amazin night for the Amazins! Gary Cater smiled down on us tonight!
Well put, Joe D.
Words aren’t necessary!!!
Congratulations to the whole team!!!
Great recap!!!
LGM!
Don’t forget former Met Juan Samuel helping us out by sending Fontenot who was out at the plate by 30 feet.They need to get Valdy more ab’s.Looks like Kirk N needs to sit for a while.No bat speed tonite.Maybe the bad hand is the culprit.Give Valdy his at bats for a few games?
FInally Juan Samuel does something to HELP the Mets!
Waaaah!!, Waaaah!! That’s the sound of the Phillies crying!!! How much did they give Pap Smears? LMAO!!!
Sign this man to a 20 year extension tonight, please.
Best game of the year by far besides no-no. This was high drama baseball at it’s best and on a night when the ace is off, his teammates pull through!
Guess it wasn’t the night for me to get involved in my Jewish heritage.
While watching the game I was scanning through the TV listings and saw WLIW about to broadcast a program about Jews in baseball. Set the DVR to record it but after a few minutes the program really began catching my interest so I turned the Met game off from split screen and concentrated on the documentary.
Oy vey. Just hope this doesn’t mean that the only way for the Mets to perform last inning come from behind heroics is for me to stop watching the game in the seventh inning!
It happens to the best of us. Your comment gave me a chuckle.
Hi Seligman,
To add to to that story, my better told me not to turn the game off cause they could wind up winning. And what hurts even more is that around the time of that ninth inning comeback it was Fred Wilpon who was appearing on that documentary!
BTW – my love of 39 years is Catholic but since she happened to marry a Jewish guy, I’m sure the reason she wanted me to put back the Met game had nothing to do with having to watch a program about us Jews instead!
…. obviously meant to type my “better half” who at the time of my posting was telling me again never to give up on the team.
Will never hear the end of it from her, I’m afraid.
Hey guys,
We did manage to see that guy walk right into someone giving his friend a high five and fall down, losing his drink in the process. Guess that is a small consolation prize.
JOEY, SIMILARLY, I’M A CATHOLIC WHOSE MUCH BETTER HALF IS A “PRINCESS”, WHO AS EARLY AS THE SECOND INNING WAS SLEEPILY PROCLAIMING “ALL WAS TO BE LOST”; IMAGINE MY JOY IN HAVING MY CELEBRATORY WHOOPS WAKING HER AS I HAD TO EXPLAIN WHY I’D BEEN SO NOISEY
Hi 62,
Actually, when people meet us they assume my better half is the Jewish one!
The thing i see here is a lot of gorilla-mentality fans drooling at the mouth, dragging their knuckles yelling “Take that Unclutch My ***” and all of that nonsense.
I even saw someone say Terry Collins for manager of the year – right after the game.
A lot of people engaging in mass ejaculation and pre-mature climax all over the fact that David Wright had a big hit in a big spot to win the game.
When I saw it i knew it looked unusual and that it was kind of surreal to see the team mobbing David Wright after a walk off hit. And I was right, it was his first walk off hit since August of 2008.
His first walk off hit since August of 2008.
His first walk off hit since August of 2008.
Now that all of you people who are foaming at the mouth laying there lump in an erotic high after witnessing such a rare event. Keep it shut, okay?
Just keep it shut and lay it play out. Alex Rodriguez had turned around what was considered a career of being a well known choke artist in 2009. And David Wright can do the same thing.
And Mark Malusis was right in the post game when he said “he can’t believe he’s saying David Wright has been getting some clutch hits this year because he’s not known to do this”
He’s right. And you fools know it that’s why you’re all winding up with a mass, simultaneous boner. Because you’ve had a day you’ve waited for a long, long, long, long time for.
There is still a 2nd half of the season and if he kept this up during the 2nd half and AS THE GAMES GET MORE IMPORTANT. And if he’s able to finally raise his game to the level of a high stakes performer than only THAN will I believe he’s turned the corner.
He has not yet. Tonight was a good night, let’s see how it goes from here.
Take a deep breath folks.
Ahhhhh shaddapp and go get me a rum punch!
Maybe the reason why everyone is having a “mass, simultaneous boner” right now is because we’ve WAITED for Wright to deliver in moments like this. How many times the last few years have you complained about Wright being a loser in the clutch? Soft? Doesn’t have what it takes? The man delivered THREE TIMES in this game. He tied it, he gave the Mets the lead in which Dickey failed to hold on to, and of course, hit the GW single. Funny you say this is his 1st walkoff since 2008, because when was the last time you saw THIS David Wright? 2008. Give the man his due tonight. We may have a long season left, but with the way Wright and the team been giving us games like this, can you blame some of us for this “mass ejaculation and pre-mature climax”? I think not.
You’re my hero. Well you and David Wright, lol. I cant believe the audacity of that guy.
The audacity to tell it like it really is and be honest? How dare me!
No I was referring to the audacity of not celebrating a dramatic win over a division rival and slobbering all over yourself just to put down the player who made this win possible. You’re a terrible fan.
and one other thing. Let me put it this way – If you have a son that graduated 8th grade and started High School in 2008 and then this year graduated High School and enrolling for college now.
That means the last time Wright had a walk off hit for the Mets your college freshman son was in 8th grade.
How many Mets have had walk off hits during that time? Maybe you could fit it in a book?
Relax, ok?
Relax
IGNORAMUS.
then imagine how clutch Wright must have been while your son was in middle school/elementary school considering he is now the Mets all time leader in walk off RBI, despite not getting a single one while your son was in HS!!!!
If your kid is as bright as you are, he’s probably still in high school since 2008.
I am giving him his due. Maybe tonight was the first night in a long time attempt to try and turn his reputation as a guy who cannot deliver in big spots. And it’s true that’s all. This is his first walk off hit since 2008 and we’ve had tons of players of all levels of talent have walk off hits during those 4 years. You can say it’s more remarkable how a player who plays as much as Wright fails so often in those spots. It’s because his reputation is folding under pressure.
It’s simply true. But now he seems to be turning it around but it was still one big walk off hit in 4 years that was saw from him tonight. And if he can turn it around the Mets can absolutely be pennant contenders. But he’s failed them in the past when he had opportunities to make the post season his business.
Will he fail again? Or will he have finally turned the corner. That’s just being honest and smart and not being a ‘malcontent’ or whatever else these clucking chickens want to call me while they are still flapping their wings off of an emotional high.
Let’s see how it plays out because it could still be a horrible game tomorrow. Then instead of Terry Collins being called manager of the year…tonight..he’ll be called for his head tomorrow.
And I’m seeing morons calling me malcontent
I get what BMF is saying…albeit maybe not as colorfully. But, in all honesty, I was more confident in Tejada in his at bat than i was with David in his. David proved me, at least, wrong all evening long. I will happily continue to eat that crow for the rest of the year.
Being more confident in tejada was stupid because wright is a far better hitter. Read a book, clutch hitting is a myth.
Never claimed I made any sense in feeling that…it’s just how I felt (stupid as it is to you). Oh, and I read a book once called “Where the Red Fern Grows”. You seem correct, it did not mention clutch hitting.
You are definitely the smartest person here after me
Smell the flowers, my fellow Mets fan. Don’t be a bitter malcontent.
This is the most pathetic post i have ever seen on this blog.There would have been no chance for a walk off hit by anyone if not for his two earlier clutch hits.Enjoy the moment.Met fans are all familiar with the past.
Why are you even a mets fan? Your whole response reads like a phillies fan came to a mets sitr.
By the way how bout those clutch walks?
What exactly did BMF say that was not true or worth you questioning him being a mets fan? Didn’t you hear the post game interview when MM said to david “haven’t had one of this in a while eh”? well guess what?? Since 2008 he hadn’t had a GW Hit, which to me is almost mind boggling… No need for that.. If he was clutch you’d think all this comments were gonna be made about a blooper hit being CLUTCH? Come on JesseP… Even you can be smart from time to time…
He’s had plenty of game winning (GW) hits, he hasn’t had walk off hits, big difference.
you know my point.
The sad thing is, so many here are trolling trying to get the reaction they got from you guys then they flip out when they get it. I don’t think either you or Bayonne hate Wright, you just think that’s he’s been overrated and disappointing the past few years. (which I agree)
The fact is, Murph, Tejada, Ike and had great AB’s in the 9th, Wright had a jam shot on an inside out swing that produced a bloop that landed that won the game. Not to take the GWH away fro Wright, but even he admitted it was a lucky hit.
I think Wright’s big “Clutch” hit was the two run bomb he hit in the 5th, That was a tough AB and a good pitch that Wright saw coming and turned on it.
You can’t criticize the Golden Boy, no matter how true it is, and not take heat for it, It’s great to see Wright turn his career around…he’s going back to his old self when he could get clutch hits instead of striking out.
THANK YOU!!!! The CORE salute you… See People? was that hard?
If we want to talk about “clutchness”, lets also look at the huge turn around in the field by Wright.
Trust me when I saw this, nothing is harder on a pitcher then watching outs that should have been made turn into runners on base. Nothing makes a pitcher feel more confident than seeing hits get turned into outs. As weak as the team is in some areas defensively, they have made some real fantastic game changeling plays.
This is probably the best D I’ve ever seem Wright play. I thought that Wright’s GG were gifts because of a couple highlight plays and good hitting. This year I think he actually deserves to win the gold. He’s had a ton of clutch plays in the field that he hasn’t had in a while. His final numbers this year may not show to be Wright’s best, but the way he’s playing on both sides on the field and him finally stepping up to be the leader, this is his best year.
btw, everyone is forgetting that huge clutch play at 2nd by Murphy. In a game like that, every hit is important and taking one away like that was huge. Murph still looks a little “clunky” in the field at times, but he’s improved a ton…I’m a lot less nervous when that ball is hit to him then I was at the start of the season.
Murphy is never going to get style points. If he gives you ‘crude but effective” take it and run!
and as to Wright, I think a huge part of it is his back is better. He played much (if not all) of last year with a hurt/broken back (still not clear if the crack was there all along to me) and that had to kill him out in the field, and play a big part in the weak D.
“The sad thing is, so many here are trolling trying to get the reaction they got from you guys then they flip out when they get it.”
That’s exactly what’s going on here. Good post USMF.
Why are YOU a mets fan?
This is the same team you wanted to scrap and rebuild on some 3-5 year plan!
Or has your wrongness over recent events caused you a severe case of convenient amnesia?
Hi Metsie,
And let us not forget that basically the same team that is doing it this year was doing it last year when we were told they were just a .500 club, playing over their heads and just hanging on, not good enough to overtake the Braves, Cardinals and other ones ahead of them in that cramped wild cart hunt. New key players this season that are contributing are a returning Santana, Kirk and Tejada. Key players from last year no longer with us are Reyes, Beltran and KRod. The swap in center field is Torres over Pagan.
So why is this year’s edition different than last season’s? The core is the same. Why should we be more excited about the second half when we weren’t supposed to be last year? It’s because as fans, all we can ask for is the best effort a team can give us over a course of 162 games.
Last season we were getting that effort from the players but not from the front office which could have left the team alone but didn’t. This year, as Joe D. pointed out in his post about a week ago, the team is again playing great ball and while the front office might leave it alone this time, they are certainly not going to make any major moves to improve it.
And we do not have to give up the future to improve it. We didn’t have to last year, we don’t have to this year. All we have to do is spend and add some lower rated prospects. That’s the key word – spend – and something our front office better recognize that putting it’s business principles above everything else is not going to help anybody.
That’s why I brought up once more 2011, for it’s a hint of what to expect in 2012. Hope I am wrong and the front office comes through.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/06/dont-expect-big-add-ons-by-and-large-these-fighting-2012-mets-are-on-their-own.html
You can’t see the difference between this year and last year? Serously? How about having an Ace back and pitching as well as he did before the injury and the 3Bman having the best season of his career and Ike Davis back and now hitting. Still can’t see a difference? Hmmm. Let us not forget there was a team in Philly 40 games over 500. Let us not forget 6 teams were in front of us in the Wild Card race. Let us not forget we were floating around 500 all year long, never more than 5 games over and 5 games for only 1 day.Let us not forget the Cardinals were a head and shoulders much better team than we were. Give it a rest Joey. Your Debbie Downer routine is getting old. This is a much different team and if you can’t see that then you’re not paying attention. Oh and the core is much different than last year.
You do have to remember around this time last year, the Mets were expected to have Santana, Davis, and Wright all back – It didn’t work out that way, but we all thought they would make it back at some point. My thinking was at that time that since we were playing well without them for such a long period of time, that once they made it back we would make a push for the playoffs.
You also have to consider the big offensive years from Reyes, Beltran, an even Murphy. The bullpen was also stronger with K-Rod.
Around this time last year the Mets had a realistic shot at the playoffs. The reason why they fell way short was because we traded away our best RP and our best run producer, and Davis and Santana didn’t make it back like we thought they would. And then the injuries to Reyes and Murphy was the final nail in the coffin for that team.
It wasn’t because they weren’t good it was because there were too many injuries to key players, and we traded away two key players.
Hi Fonzie,
Don’t you see my point? I said as fans, all we can expect from a team is to give us it’s best effort over a 162 game season. It wasn’t the players who stopped giving us that effort but the front office. For most of us, it’s not winning it all that is the only thing – it is giving us one’s best for the entire season. And that they were doing, getting all of us excited now as we were then. It didn’t matter if we would wind up finishing just 85-78 as long as they gave us it’s all.
And what did we have to lose keeping them last season? Wheeler might become a great pitcher but as Washington has proved, even a Steve Strausberg is nothing without the 24 other players to support him. Same in 1971 when Steve Carlton won nearly half the Phillie games that year.
But the bottom line is, this was a club that started out the season 5-14, then went on a tear of 50-37, beating the best teams and not beating themselves. We can put last year aside except for the fact that it’s the same front office that dismantled it last year and is showing signs it won’t do anything to help it this year.
That is the argument I’ve always been making, not whether or not we could have won the 2011 wild card but letting the team that is doing so much to continue doing so without calling it a lost season beforehand. Bobby Ojeda asked the fans to come out and support this team but there, I believe, a lot fed up with ownership and the front office because they didn’t.
BTW – last season we had a center fielder who could hit, a guy who could close a game, a bat in the lineup in the form of Beltran instead of Wright (we would love David to finish up with Beltran’s 2011 stats) so the strengths and weakness between last season and this even out. The only big advantage we have this year is that Hairston’s home run off Hammels would have been an out last year.
It’s unbelievable that somebody who’s saying the team last year had a shot a the wild card is being called a Debbie Downer, while the people who wanted to see this team blown up last year because they felt the Mets had no shot, are now calling out people for not being Mets Fans, and haters.
It just seems so twisted and it makes absolutely no sense.
You would think the people who didn’t have faith in the team last year would be called a Debbie downer and/or haters, not the other way around.
And how the ones saying it are all the debbie downers who wanted to wipe the slate clean and go for a 3-4 year rebuilding plan instead last year when we were talking about just how good the team was playing and fighting!
!st of all he’s being called a Debbie Downer because he keeps saying the same thing day in and day out, expecting them to break up this team all because two players were traded last year.
Even after a great win last night he says the same shit every day. Nobody knew anything about Ike coming back or not, every couple of weeks the update was no progress was made, Santana wasn’t even throwing in rehab games yet.
The only when expected back was Wright which he did right after the allstar break, hit for 2 weeks and went right back into the tank. Reyes got hurt exactly 1 year ago and the team floundered around 500 up until the trade deadline. They scored the same amount of runs per game after the trade as they did before the trade. Duda even outperformed Beltran the rest of the way.
If you watched this team play defense, make mental mistake after mental mistake. Mediocre staring pitching, lousy bullpen work even before K-Rod was traded and the win 4 straight, lose 4 straight, win 3 straight lose 3 straight routine after they climbed out of that 5-13 start, you would be nuts to think this team was a playoff team.
You can’t tell me there’s not a huge difference between this years team and last years team and you can’t tell me there’s not a diference between where they stand in the division and WC race compared to last year. If you watch baseball and you can’t tell the difference you’re all way behind the curve. There’s no team running away with either the division or the wild card.
And you guys did same thing last year….
So really your accusing him of doing what you did then!
Basically your argument has gone to Pot/Kettle!
Your wrong on a number of points – Santana was expected to be back – If you weren’t expecting him to return, you would then be a “debbie downer” because a lot of people were saying he should returned around mid August.
He didn’t have a rehab game in early July, but around the time Beltran was traded he did make a rehab start:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6814213/new-york-mets-johan-santana-strong-first-rehab-start-port-st-lucie
And this about Ike:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=6752991
When I talked about Reyes’ injury I was talking about the 2nd one, where he and Murphy both got hurt on the same day – The Mets lost two hitters in the top five in hitting on the same day.
Also while Duda’s hitting numbers were equal to that of Beltran after he left, you can’t ignore what the Mets lost on defense by putting Duda in RF, and the leadership Beltran brought. And since Ike never came back, the Mets could have played Duda at 1stbase so it’s a moot point anyway – The Mets would have had Duda and Beltran in the same lineup.
And while the bullpen wasn’t great with K-Rod either, it was much worse after he left. It was horrible. Even Sandy Alderson said that if the Mets didn’t trade K-Rod the Mets would have finished over .500.
And tell me Vin what happened to Johan after his first Rehab start? He had a set back and didn’t throw until mid August and wound up making only 2 more late August early september rehab starts. Even if he has no setbacks we’re talking labor day weekend for his first start if he has no set backs.
Same thing with Ike. Soon after he had a set back and they made a decision to wait until Labor day to see if he would need micro fracture surgery.
When they made the Beltran trade they were way out of 1st in the division and about 7 games out of the WC with 6 teams ahead of them. The team was 1 game over the day of the trade.
If you were watching them every day, how up and down they were going from a couple of games over to a couple of games under before Reyes went down and before both K-Rod and Beltran were traded.
They got next to nothing from LF. Wright was awful except for the 1st 2 weeks off the DL. Reyes was a shell of himself when he came off the DL. Pagan played the worst CF that I’ve ever seen as a Met fan, the catching situation was dreadful, The pitching staff was mediocre at best except Dickey. Pelfrey was horrible, Niese was up and down, mostly screwed by his defense which was worse than this year. Capauano was okay at best, Gee was god awful in the 2nd half and the bullpen sucked with K-Rod and sucked even more without him.
The defense was atrocius, especially in the OF with Pagan. Beltran caught everything he got to but had no range at all. We had the worst DP combo in the entire Major leagues. The worst baserunning team since the late 70′s and probably worse. The bullpen blew 17 7th inning or later leads before the K-Rod trade and 13 more after the K-Rod trade. 4 straight at home in June and 6 out of 7.
We got great years from Reyes up until he got hurt and then he was non existent until the end of September, a very good year from Beltran and a very good year from Murphy, Turner was great in the clutch and Duda played well after the trade. Other than that we had a makeshift lineup everyday.
You can’t tell me there’s not a tremendous difference between where this team stands now and where this team was at the trade deadline a year ago. If the season ended today we’re in the WC. Thats a big difference than being 10-12 games behind Philly last year and 7 out in the loss 1 game over on July 29th.
If we’re in this position last year and he trades off Beltran and K-Rod I would be screaming bloody murder too. But when you look at the team objectively and you have a chance to get out of an idiotic option that Omar gave K-Rod and a chance to get a prospect of Wheelers caliber it would be insane not to pull the trigger, especially since we get nothing at the end of the year when Beltran walks.
And Joey how many times have you said this season after the team runs off 4 or 5 wins in a row about the rug being pulled out from under them. How the team was dismantled. 2 players traded and you call it dismantled. You’ve said it plenty of times. If this team is where they are now in 3 weeks you can bet the ranch they’re not trading off any significant piece from this team. Even after wins you would come into the shoutbox and say so and so’s HR wouldn’t have been a HR last year with the old dimensions. God forbid you enjoy the ride this team is on. That’s why I call you a Debbie Downer.
“And tell me Vin what happened to Johan after his first Rehab start?”
And how were we going to know that would happen? Unless you were a Debbie Downer, you would have expected him back around mid August, or at worst a September return.
Read that article I linked about Ike, he was expected to return to the lineup – Only a Debbie Downer would have predicted he would have never returned.
“If you were watching them every day, how up and down they were”
That doesn’t sound much different than this years team.
“they got next to nothing from LF. Wright was awful except for the 1st 2 weeks off the DL. Reyes was a shell of himself when he came off the DL. Pagan played the worst CF that I’ve ever seen as a Met fan, the catching situation was dreadful, The pitching staff was mediocre at best except Dickey”
And what are they getting from LF this year? Hairston? He was there last year. And how would we know that Wright would be awful after he came back in early July? Same thing with Reyes, how would we know he was going to be a shell of himself when he came back? We didn’t know the future.
The catching situation is dreadful this year too. The only difference is the starters, but last year our offense IMO was much stronger.
So, anyway, my main point was that around this time last year the 2011 team was still in it, and had a shot – Especially since we were EXPECTING returns from key players(unless you were a Debbie Downer). We didn’t know at this time last year that they would never make it back.
You seem to be confused with what I’m saying.
I’m not exactly arguing the Beltran trade, I’m arguing that at around this time last year, this team was in it and had a realistic shot. And if you WANTED to see that team blown up at that time because you didn’t believe and have faith in the Mets, don’t call other fans Debbie Downers.
“And Joey how many times have you said this season after the team runs off 4 or 5 wins in a row about the rug being pulled out from under them. How the team was dismantled. 2 players traded and you call it dismantled. You’ve said it plenty of times. If this team is where they are now in 3 weeks you can bet the ranch they’re not trading off any significant piece from this team. Even after wins you would come into the shoutbox and say so and so’s HR wouldn’t have been a HR last year with the old dimensions. God forbid you enjoy the ride this team is on. That’s why I call you a Debbie Downer.”
Yes, Fonzie,
I indeed said every one of those things quite often for a while – all because of you.
Remember I revealed my intention was to use your exact arguments about last year and apply them to this season? Yes, I purposely played the role of a “Debbie Downer” to sarcastically suggest if those moves could be justified last season they could be justified again this year. By the logic of last year, we should deal Santana and Wright while they are hot and get more young prospects to build for the future for if last year’s team wasn’t going anywhere, the same would have to be said about this year’s team as well with the same core of players returning from 2011. Just like KRod and Beltran (and eventually Reyes) I applied the same argument about Santana and Wright not being a part of our future.
As far as dismantling, it didn’t begin in July, 2011. Add to these two all the other players released and obtained by this front office prior and after those moves and that is not only dismantling but reflective of bad personnel moves, period. That makes one a Debbie Downer when it comes to the front office thinking when thinking how much stronger this club could have indeed been.
And everyone has been pointing out which homers would have been outs with Citi Field’s original dimensions – from Gary, Keith and Ron down to all of us in the shout box. Why single me out? Does that imply everyone is thus a Debbie Downer as well? All that does is to show how ridiculous it was to have designed a ball park in that manner to begin with.
“And how were we going to know that would happen? Unless you were a Debbie Downer, you would have expected him back around mid August, or at worst a September return”
No I’m not a Debbie Downer at all. I’m a realist. Did you listen to Johan’s soundbites all year long and 2 days after his 1st rehab start. He felt pain and stiffness in his shoulder and was shut down and by that time nobody realistically expected Johan to be back anytime before labor day.
And if you researched the injury like I did you would’ve found that no other pitcher EVER has fully recovered from that injury let alone come back and pitch at all less than a year from the procedure. Plus he had his shoulder fully opened, unlike Prior and Wang which was more invasive and those 2 guys took 2 years to pitch again
“.And what are they getting from LF this year? Hairston? He was there last year. And how would we know that Wright would be awful after he came back in early July? Same thing with Reyes, how would we know he was going to be a shell of himself when he came back? We didn’t know the future”
We are getting a helluva lot more outta LF this year than we did last year. hairston is tied for the team lead in HR’s and the platoon of Torres and Nieuwenhus has actually outproduced Pagan and even though Torres hasn’t been nearly as good defensively as he was in SF he’s still been better than Pagan who is still misplaying CF for the Giants this year costing them the game Saturday.
“Read that article I linked about Ike, he was expected to return to the lineup – Only a Debbie Downer would have predicted he would have never returned.”
I read it Vin and read it when that came out but it doesn’t change the fact that shortly after that he again felt pain and stopped running and we were told he would be re-evaluated in 3 weeks and if he doesn’t improve by labor day we would have a decision of whether or not he would have surgery, By that time pretty much everybody figured Ike was done, well at least most everybody. Did you honestly expect him back after already missing 2 1/2 months and knowing how the medical staff botches injuries and timetables for returns? I know I didn’t. Had nothing to do with being a Debbie Downer.
“The catching situation is dreadful this year too. The only difference is the starters, but last year our offense IMO was much stronger”
I totally agree. The catching is dreadful. More so offensively but slight and I mean slight improvement defensively and Thole has improved his game calling which Collins has pointed out and the staff loves to throw to Nickeas who I think they overrated defensively and should’ve sent him down and left Johnson here while he was swinging a hot bat and didn’t look like a down grade behind the plate.
The pitching staff is night and day better than last year, not only pitching much much better than last years staff but deeper into games and they have Johan back which IMO makes this team much better than last years team in more ways than just how well he’s pitched but the overall phsyche of the team.
I disagree about the offense. At the 81 game mark we were on pace to score 758 runs which would be 40 more runs than last years team. We have about 20 more HR’s this year than last year at this time and about 20 more 2B’s but about 10 less triples and we’re on a pace to steal about 50 less bases. But overall I think our offense is better and they’re the best in baseball getting the big 2 out hit. They were actually very good last year too. 2nd overall.
And I think you’re confused at what I’m saying. I’m not calling Joe a Debbie Downer because he thought the team not so much had a shot at the playoffs but he thought they should’ve kept the team intact even if the fell short.
I’m calling him that cause he keeps implying that they’re going to do the same thing this year and myself and others have tried to explain the difference between this year and last year.
Not only is the team better (Legit pitching staff) but the circumstances are completely different. Right now if the season ended we’re a WC team. last year we were mathematically in it but we were no where near the position we are in now. 12 games behind Philly (maybe more not sure) and 7 in the loss behind 6 teams is different than being in the WC lead.
Not to mention the financial situation isn’t nearly as bleak as last year with the suit behind us. We have no impending free agents and no one with a ridiculous option that needs to be moved. And Joey saying the team was dismantled is not true, 2 players were moved. If they gutted the team or traded 4-5 players away, that would be dismantled. Not 2 players, one a free agent who wasn’t coming back for what we would be willing to pay and the other one was going to be paid a ridiculous amount of money and is nowhere near that type of pitcher. I don’t think he threw in the towel unless you think a possible 500 or slightly better than 500 is worth keeping an okay closer for 17.5 and a free agent with no compensation who was not coming back. I think he did very well to get Wheeler and get K-Rod off the team. And I’m not agenda driven at all. I’m looking at it as an objective diehard fan who realizes the team still has glaring holes and needs a lot of work to get to where we all want them to be. So far he’s failed mightily putting a bullpen together.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter if this team this year is better or has a better shot – The point is that the team last did have a shot and was still alive around this time last year….And instead of having faith and believing in them, you wanted to blow the team up as did others because you felt they weren’t good enough.
So, please, don’t call other fans Debbie Donwers. You can’t get more negative than wanting to blow up a team that was playing their hearts out every night and that was playing well for a long time,and while the team was also expecting returns from key players – And what your saying about Ike and Santana just proves you were a Debbie Downer because when people were saying they should make a return, you were expecting the worst.
Just one last quick point about that team, the offense never reached it’s full potential because they never were healthy. And despite all the injuries(and trading away their best run producer), the Mets still had a good offense.
Hi Vinny,
And thanks for the defense….
We were in the hunt last season and there is no way to justify the moves that were made were (and weren’t) founded in terms of baseball logic (or being “realistic”):
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/tags/sandy-alderson
It has also been argued that we were just a .500 club last season playing over our heads and, at best, only four games above .500. This is not meant to be a Debbie Downer but to take issue with that exact point. Take away two wins from us this year and look – we would be 44-41, THREE games above .500. Two victories more than last season percentage wise – does that makes this a much better club than last season?
Or take away our 4-0 start and we are 42-39. Is that a better winning percentage than when we went 50-37 last season after starting off at 5-14?
It is then argued that we are much better this year because we have a healthy Johann, a big season from Dickey, a career year from Wright and rookies like Kirk, Valdy, etc. Well, how come that much better team is just two victories (percentage wise) better than it’s counterpart last season and yet more can be expected from them – with the bullpen now in shambles – than last season when Sandy needed time for the club to prove what it could do?
This means is that we had an exciting team last year that had the rug pulled out from under it because the front office was being “realistic”. My guess then is being a “Debbie Downer” does not apply to one being “realistic”.
We had an exciting team last year and have an exciting one again this year – despite no help from the “Debbie Downers” in the front office – oh, excuse me, I meant those “realistic” thinkers in the box office.
Again, if anyone believes the moves were made in the best interests of fielding a team now and in the future, read again:
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/tags/sandy-alderson
And finally, if one wants fans to spend a lot of money on high priced tickets, high priced “processing fees”, high priced parking and high priced concessions, then fans expect the front office to justify spending that hard earned money on them. Pulling the rug out of a team in a wild card race and focusing on the future is not a realistic excuse, especially because keeping KRod and Beltran would not have cost us a thing – except getting a Zach Wheeler -which, to most, does not justify taking away what could have continued to be a great summer for us.
Joey D, why you constantly bring up the same talking points I can’t say it’s not as if by now most of MMO doesn’t know your thoughts on this but despite how often you may repeat that in your opinion this years team is not that much different than last year their win/loss record resulting from their play says the contrary.
You look at where they are today to suggest they are the same and continually fail to look at their play to get them where they are today.
If you wiped away the bad start the Mets got off to last year and started the season from the time they reached .500 again at 22-22 back on May.20,2011 they spent 35 days below .500 & 12 days above .500 (not including off days) up until the morning of the Beltran trade. They only went as high as 3 games above .500 twice before the Beltran trade. They were mostly a sub .500 team and you can argue that they were not all you wish and the facts will still be what they are.
The standings on the morning Beltran was traded July 27, 2011
Atl was 60-44 with 58 games remaining. (Wildcard Leader)
If they split them and went 29-29 rest of way they would finish 89-73.
Ari was 56-47 with 59 games remaining. (2nd in WildCard 3.5 games back)
If they split them and went 29-30 rest of way they would finish 85-77.
Mil was 55-49 with 58 games remaining. (3rd in WildCard 5.0 games back)
If they split them and went 29-29 rest of way they would finish 84-78.
Pit was 53-48 with 61 games remaining. (4th in WildCard 5.5 games back)
If they split them and went 30-31 rest of way they would finish 83-79.
The Mets were 52-51 with 59 games remaining. (5th in WildCard 7.5 games back)
For the Mets to tie Atl they had to go 37-22 the rest of the way. 15 games above .500
For the Mets to tie Ari they had to go 33-26 the rest of the way. 07 games above .500
For the Mets to tie Mil they had to go 32-27 the rest of the way. 05 games above .500
For the Mets to tie Pit they had to go 31-28 the rest of the way. 03 games above .500
Faced with this there was nothing to suggest the Mets could play 15 games above .500 or .627 ball the rest of the way and thus Beltran was traded.
This season the Mets have spent 0 days below .500 and have gone as high as 8 games above .500 and as I type this are tied for 1 of the 2 wildcard spots.
Even if you went as far as to wipe away the Mets 5-13 start last year (which you can’t cause it’s your entire record that determines if you get in not just the best part) The Mets went 48-38 since going 5-13 up to the morning of July 27th. They still were never able to play .627 ball.
This year’s team despite the loss of Reyes despite the loss of Beltran despite the loss of KRod despite the loss of Pagan somehow have played better than when they were here last year.
The Mets will head into the break no worse than 6 games above .500 and then the real test will begin to see if this team will play different this 2nd half than in recent prior years. Maybe they will play like last year’s team and then you have a better case to say they are like last year but up to now their play this 1st half suggests otherwise.
I won’t be making this same point continuously but as we head to the break I wanted to take the opportunity to do so now.
Hope the Mets continue to play well (though today looks like a Loss) and look forward to what can be an exciting 2nd half as I know when we get to the bottom of it you do too.
LGM!
I said “The Mets went 48-38 since going 5-13 up to the morning of July 27th.” I included the July 27th game by accident they went 48-37.
Oh Jesus last time 47-38.
Hi North,
LMAO with those typos!
Not a good game today and that means we might wind up the all-star break at 46-40. Now we can say that the Mets accomplished that with red-hot performances by Dickey and Santana and that of late they have been coming back down to earth (Sandy just said one could not expect R.A. to continue to pitch that way in the second half). Can can we expect both these starters along with David to continue their great performances after the break as well? How about Tejada? Won’t fatigue start to creep in more with Chris Young?
As I’m trying to say, statements made about last season could also be asked about the team again this year. The bottom line is both teams were playing way better than anyone expected and both editions should have been given the same equal chance. A good 162 game effort is all one could ask for.
You can repeat the won lost figures the time KRod was traded, the period between that and when Beltran went, etc. but the bottom line is that the team was not given the chance to show what they could do over a period of 162 games and at one point, even after the loss of their closer, were able to pull within six of the loss side in the wild card with one third of the season to go. I agree, in 2011 we were right not to have given up any prospect of value that could play an important role to us in the future, but that didn’t mean giving up on players that could have helped us as that time, either.
No matter how he might perform, our future does not rest just on the shoulders of Zach Wheeler. If it did, we would not have much to make us as optimistic as we are now with the players we have and those about to come up. And if that was the case, we would really need to completely re-build the organization from the bottom up.
LGM too, my friend.
You can not give them an equal chance cause again the situations were not equal.
You may think they were but they are not. Krod had a unique vesting option that everyone knew the Mets were somehow going to try and find a way to not allow it to vest.
The organization as much as you would like to have given them a FULL 162 games could not and in fact did not allow themselves to be on the hook to pay KRod $17M this season. You may wish they did but the Mets did not and most agree that paying a closer of KRod’s stature $17M is just not smart.
You can continue to make the argument you have but in the end the Beltran move happened after the results I referenced and the KRod move happened due to the unique situation of his vesting option.
Well MNJyou rally comparing Apples and Oranges with your Win Pct comparison and how many games over .500 they were then and now.
The only real difference between our record last year and this is eveident in our record vs Phillies (who suck this year!).
We were 3-6 vs them last year and they ran away with the division and put 12.5 game between us and them at the time of your comparison.
Our record on this day last year was 46-43, Our record today? 46-40!
Our record vs Phillies this year? 8-4, There is your difference in Win PCT and it says more about the decline of the Phillies than the rise of the Mets!
So in the end the final net gain in WIn Pct has to do with gaining 2 on the loss column and 3 more in the Win column vs Philly.
for a total of 5 Net profit just on the phillies alone.
Whch leaves you not much more than a 2 game difference against everyone else from last year!
That accounts for your 6 games over .500 as opposed to your being only 3 games over .500 this time last year!
In fact we gained so much on the Phillies that we actually lost some vs other teams.
Hi North,
Believe it or not, WE AGREE!
The vesting option coupled with the entire financial situation is why the moves were made. It had nothing to do with the team’s play in the field and where it was in the wild card standings. Nor did it have anything to do with rebuilding for the future.
My argument was always with those who justified the moves based on the merits of baseball independent of the financial situation. I repeated that over and over again (no comments about my repetitious behavior, please –
). From a baseball perspective, as Metsie and others also point out, it made no sense. Nor were we repeating the mistake of 2004 by putting all our eggs in one basket and sacrificing our future. The front office just didn’t give that crew to finish what they were accomplishing to that point exactly for the points you raised.
The front office had no other choice but to proclaim the moves were made in the best interests of the team in the field. I understand the public relations spin but it doesn’t mean going along with it to give the organization’s moves credibility. And that credibility has been so much damaged because the story keeps on flip flopping: there was no money, then there was, the Madoff situation had nothing to do with the Mets, then it was the civil suit hanging over the Wilpons that limited what the team could do, that the idea was to spread the money concentrated on just a few players when the goal was to bring the payroll down to below $100K, etc.
Those who claim these were moves made to usher in a new direction, that the money spent on KRod was more important than the result on the field, that a team should get rid of a player because was going to be a free agent at the end of the season, that a team playing great and inspired baseball for more than half of season wasn’t good, enough, etc. simply supported throwing in the towel out of loyalty to the new front office or a disdain to the old one.
Joey D, other than the typical GM speak of this allows us to give opportunities for another play yada yada yada the moves made were done due to their specific situations.
I am not going to repeat why the moves were made I’ll leave that for you to do I have already explained why. You can argue against it all you wish but it doesn’t change the reasons behind the moves.
I know nothing I said will change your mind but I wanted to just take the opportunity to say what I think every time I see you make these comments. Could you imagine me making these same statements every time you make yours?
That is a lot of typing.
Have a good one Joey D
Hi North,
Now I don’t know what we’re disagreeing about – because I agreed with you it was the vesting option and the financial circumstances that led to those moves.
Now, losing four out of six to the Cubs….
Hahahaha, it’s OK Joey D. Don’t worry about it. Even if I explained you would only disagree with it anyway.
Hi North,
LOL, …. and I’m sure this will not be the end of our friendly debate since many of us find a relevancy between 2011 and 2012.
But let’s be honest, our lives would be somewhat duller without each other!
Fonzie,
In spring training every one questioned the future status of Wright, Santana and Bay. And for good reason based on the circumstances of last year. That made most everyone a Debbie Downer. I was also concerned about the impact of not having the front office behind them last season would affect their play this coming year
So what has always been obvious is that I was (and still am) a Debbie Downer regarding the front office – not the players. But don’t put words in my mouth that it’s because I think our top veterans are going to be sent off like last year – I’ve said not to expect help.
Now since you felt the players were, at best, a .500 team last year while in the thick of the wild card hunt, does that mean the players- and the fans – thus do not deserve the opportunity to see if you were right or wrong? For many of us, a good, satisfying season doesn’t mean having to make post-season. Coming from nowhere and finishing up beyond anybody’s hope would have made August and September a wonderful time. I would only be repeating the words of Vinny B., Metsie and myself as to why we didn’t get to finish what we started and at least go down fighting.
BTW in mid-July Sandy gave the team two weeks to convince him of what it was made of. Now, after putting itself in the middle of the wild card hunt after that miserable start and after already sending the team’s closer packing – if those aren’t the words of a Debbie Downer, I don’t know what are.
Sacrificing the future last year would have been awful and the reason we can be optimistic now is that we still have the guys that were not traded last year.
Hi Martin,
Nobody was saying give up the future for last season.
There is a difference between obtaining players to help and giving up a prospect (like in 2004 with Kazmir) and getting rid of players.
Helpful players are not free. Other teams expect a return, meaning Players than can be helpful in the future.
HI Martin,
Money talks too….. when combined with lower propsects.
And there is always cash and the famous player to be named later.
Right but you assume the mets had excess money to send off, and also you are probably wrong about the mets being contenders last year. One of the hallmarks of maturity is the ability to accept delayed gratification. Perhaps the mets simply were not offered anything that would have helped the team for an acceptable price. What was the mets Pythagorean record at the time? Were they playing lucky, (as determined by bapid and such)?
I don’t see any real reason to think they would have contended and the trading Beltran worked out beautifully.
Hi Martin,
The decision to get rid of Beltran and Krod was made long before the season started and was going to happen regardless of how well the team performed on the field. Sandy Alderson thought the payroll was too high before players even headed to Port. St. Lucie in 2011. And based on financial projections, it was something that had to begin immediately.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mets_non_cents_5cwyZQs4aUSIPdfPo5wOpI
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/02/01/new-york-mets-may-have-to-cut-payroll-by-30-million/
Not even a portion of money saved was re-invested on roster moves.
And how about that Santana who has about the same Record Pelfrey did this time last season…
Or Reyes who is having the best season of his career?
You know what the difference between last year and this one is?
Run Support for Dickey and his low ERA!
Without Dickey’s wins this team is under .500!
I just got back from vacation and just saw this.
Vinny B July 8, 2012 at 9:52 am
Anyway, it doesn’t matter if this team this year is better or has a better shot – The point is that the team last did have a shot and was still alive around this time last year….And instead of having faith and believing in them, you wanted to blow the team up as did others because you felt they weren’t good enough.
Yes it does matter that the team is better and has a better shot. Right now they’re a half game out of a WC spot and this year there are 2 WC spots.
Last year they were no way in hell in the same league with Philly and had 6 teams to jump over for the WC and were 7 out in the loss and were a mediocre team They were a lot of fun to watch and showed a lot of fight and character but they were mediocre none the less.
They not only needed a major miracle but needed to play .630 ball the 2nd half and gave no inclination all year long they were capable of that with they way they played which I mentioned in my other posts.
“So, please, don’t call other fans Debbie Donwers. You can’t get more negative than wanting to blow up a team that was playing their hearts out every night and that was playing well for a long time,and while the team was also expecting returns from key players – And what your saying about Ike and Santana just proves you were a Debbie Downer because when people were saying they should make a return, you were expecting the worst”.
First off I didn’t want to blow up the team. I said that after the 2nd collapse in 2008 not last year. I wanted them to get rid of Pagan, Pelfrey, upgrade the pen, CF, 2B and C but not blow up the team. Believe me, I loved Beltran and defended him for 7 years against some idiotic Met fans in other sites. I would’ve much rather kept Beltran and dumped Bay but we know why that woud’ve been impossible.
So while they played very well and played their hearts out despite injuries and Johan never throwing a pitch. It was unrealistic to expect Johan to come back off of the worst injury a pitcher could suffer and expect him to be an impact. And there was talk all summer how Ike could possibly miss the season. That’s being realistic not a debbie downer.
And you still keep missing the point. Joey who admits to being a D.Downer is called that not because he feels the team had a shot last year, he’s called that because everytime the Mets win a big game, like the walkoff comeback against Philly, The No-Han, the Tampa sweep or any other time we run off a little win streak, as soon as the game is over, Joey runs to the shoutbox and brings up how the FO threw in the towel as if that has anything to do with this year that we should all expect the same this year.
He has also after a win says things like we won but that wouldn’t have been a HR last year, or if Fatcisco gives us a coronary during a save, we wouldn’t have had to have an ulcer if we kept K-Rod as if K-Rod wasn’t a highwire act himself and hasn’t exactly been anything to write home about this year. And I’m not the only one who’s called Joey that.
It’s funny how you call me a DD for being a realistic fan and one of the more objective posters here but never utter a word to Alex when all he did was bash this team to no end all offseason and tell us how this team is going to suck and not exactly saying too many positive things even now. I guess if you hate the GM it’s okay to be doom and gloom but if you’re objective and support the GM it’s not.
I’m actually very positive about the future of this team. I talk about the farm system all the time and I love that we’re building from within and not trying to build a team through free agency and I fully support the GM like I’ve full supported every other GM until they give me reason to believe they’re not capable of being the GM.
“Just one last quick point about that team, the offense never reached it’s full potential because they never were healthy. And despite all the injuries(and trading away their best run producer), the Mets still had a good offense”
I agree that they had a good offense last year. I’ve debated it all winter long. They were 6th in runs in the NL and 1st in the NL East with not a whole lot of power. They were a high OB% team and were 2nd in 2 out hits, runs and RBI’s
My point wasn’t to say they weren’t a good offense, my point was to say this years team is better than last years offense at this time last year. Like last year they’re a good OB team and even better at getting the big 2 out hit. They’ve lacked power but have more of it than last year to this point. The philosophy that many of you have blamed for the struggles of some is a big reason why we’re such a good offense. We grind out at bats and wear pitchers down.
Mets Win. They take 2 out of 3 vs the Phillies and as this team has done all season long they continue to find ways to pick each other up.
R.A. Dickey for only the 3rd time this season didn’t have his usual stuff as he kept giving the Phils the lead all night. Finishing going 7 innings while allowing 5 runs. It again is only the 3rd time this year he has allowed 5 earned runs or more while giving up a season high 11 hits.
Once again props to Mr. Tejada who I have called Mr. for sometime now this season since I wanted to show him the respect I have for him and his maturity.
The SNY Guys called it when they said what great discipline Tejada has shown this year.
I really believed that Kirk was going to come through for us against Papelbon despite his strikeout issues but it was not to be.
Turning point of the game on WFAN was Wright’s game winner but I can’t help but wonder what may have happened had the Phils not sent Fontenot that inning. That being said props to the pen with an assist from Hairston on getting through without giving up another run.
Lastly HUGE Hat-tip to Mr. Wright who had a great game even before he hit the walkoff winner that for the 2nd time triggered MVP chants from the crowd.
I said it before that every time i see a Met get a whipped cream pie-in-the-face it means we are doing good so I hope they continue to happen.
On top of that after back2back rough starts by Wheeler he rebounded pitching a solid 7.1/IP, 6/H(all singles), 1/R, 1/ER, 0/BB, 6/SO throwing 66% of his pitches for strikes. The 1 run coming when the relief came in after wheeler left with 1st and 2nd 1 out and gave up back2back walks.
Good night. Now need to try and go 8 games above .500 for the 2nd time I believe this year.
LGM!
!
Wright came up clutch here no doubt about it………
BUT!!!!!!
DANIEL MURPHY’S at bat was the BIGGEST CLUTCH HIT OF THIS GAME!
BAR NONE
clutch hitting doesnt exist, not sure why you are still discussing it.
“clutch hitting doesnt exist”
Said the SABR-GOON….
If you’re “watching” a game a hit in the 1st inning with nothing on the line no pressure is much different than, a hit in the 9th inning with the whole game on the line and everyone watching you(no ones going to the bathroom or to a stand to get a hotdog) your fans teammates counting on you destiny of the game is in your hands…CLUTCH!
But, if you are a SABR-GOON that is home crunching numbers doing taxes sipping merlot listening to a Bill James speech about math and baseball, whom idea of watching the game is waiting for it to be over so they cant check out the advance stats then….NO! Theirs no such thing as CLUTCH!
Sabr-Nuts and math junkies always try and “Desensitize” everything.
That was not an evidence based argument
a common sense one though.
Just because you can’t mathematically quantify the difference in pressure, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist…
If you can’t mathematically quantify it then it doesn’t exist. Pressure exists for the player but in terms of actual performance it doesn’t matter at all. Players perform the same in clutch situations. Over time the numbers in clutch situations and non clutch situations are the same.
The have It’s called high pressure. There is clutch but good players given enough chances will come through but is that clutch?
Players perform the same whether you define the situation as clutch or not. Perhaps the batter is nervous and plays worse. So is the pitcher, evens out. Maybe the batter is amped up and plays better, and so does the pitcher, evens out. Or maybe neither. The fact is that clutch hitters don’t exist, and if they did they should be yelled at for not performing at all times, because a hr in the first inning will win a game just the same as a 9th inning homer.
I guess none of the 4 rbi he had didn’t matter if Mets won and someone else knocked in the walk off run?
The fact that he delivered earlier in game made it possible for this moment so lets enjoy it cause I have been won that complained about all the times Reyes was in scoring position or on base and the lack of David driving him in used to drive me crazy but…
David has changed his approach at the plate, as good hitters do, and is trying less to lift the ball and just hit line drives and HR will come cause of this approach; he is not needed to hit 40 HR on this team, supposedly Davis, Bay, Duda were supposed to bring that power.
Watching Duda in RF day by day, plodding along, makes me worry how his lack of speed or quickness will affect plays in RF cause he is too slow for that much area but until Bay is gone and Duda can move to LF and Cap Kirk or another RH bat takes over RF then it is what it is.
Great win, great no words Joe D.
Awesome, just awesome especially against Hamels and Papelbon.
Ya Gotta Believe!! Let’s Go Mets!!!
What a game!! This is why we are Mets fans!
A walk off hit is not the only measure of a clutch hit and why “it hasn’t happened since 2008″ is even part of the conversation is irrelevant.
Lets Go Mets!
Ain’t no quit in this squad!
Lol, well, I will have a few words if that’s okay… First of all, the whole team came trough in my opinion in the ninth inning.. The only at bat where it was a mismtach was the Kirk at bat, even josh thole’s bunt was spot on. That ninth inning showed me this team have a lot of fight in them and the we don’t wanna lose mentality. Here’s my take on the 9th inning as to how it developed ok.
Ike Davis.. We need him to be ike davis. Great double, and even better at bat by going the other way.
Thole… My first thought was he’d fake bunt and swing, but then again, that bunt was great, at home you play for the tie first.
Kirk. Overmatch. hasn’t been the same as of late. Clearly something is bothering him.
Valdespin… I gotta tell you something, I told bayonne and maniac about valdespin, the kid will be a stud if he puts his mind (which he is) to it, the kid has a certain swagger about him that this team needs and that at bat he showed no fear, Future 2B no doubt.
Tejada…. Now, really, No words… Great at bat, to me the best at bat of the night. I love jose reyes, But little by little i keep saying to myself Jose WHo??? The kid has vision, can play tremendous defense, and little by little he’s winning the heart of a lot mets fans by his hard play.
Murphy.. Now THAT was clutch. Something told me he was gonna come trough, and had papelbon not knocked the ball with the end of his feet that ball was gonna go right up the middle, BUT, it set the stage for what was just a dramatic come from behind.
David Wright.. I wanted him to come trough, specially last night, he’s been great for us this season, he deserved that blooper to fall. Since 2008 he has not had a GW RBI HIT. Which is amazing because he’s had MANY opportunitist. To be honest, it was great to hear the fans chant M.V.P!! M.V.P!! M.V.P!! i won’t lie, i felt goose bumps to be honest, the kid has done everything the team have asked for, and what i liked the most, is that he seems focus this year,he has this TOM BRADYesque coolness about his game that i am starting to like, I see let’s go to work attitude about his game that it seems to be rubbin off on others. He had a great game last night and so far he’ had a great season. Other than McClutchen i don’t see no player beign more valuable to the team than DW, including Beltran who is having an awesome season but the Cards kinda faded a little bit for a second but now seem to be back. I hope this continues and we go all the way to the playoffs and he wins the MVP.
I hope this team stays focus, there’s a lot of baseball left and teams are so up and down this year, the NL Crown is up for grabs, we have a good 1-2 punch in Dickey and santana with niese being very solid for us as well, we might surprise at the end of the day, and hell, i truly hope we do…
LGM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
‘Little by little I keep saying to myself Jose Who?’
High praise indeed from you on young Ruben.
Sometimes I forget just how young he is, given his amazing eye at the plate, his knack for working the count and his ability for situational hitting. So glad he’s back.
Well said.
The only player to have a walk off hit against both Paps and ML and the player responsible for 2 of 3 losses for Paps this season. Yet there is the same rhetoric from the usual suspects here trying desperately to down play the Met responsible fo that Met win last nigh. Just SMH…
Can’t imagine where we would be this season without David Wright.
Great game last night, amazing 9th inning and way to go for them rallying to get Dickey off the hook on a night he didn’t have his best stuff. He’s certainly carried them enough.
Win this series against the Cubs and let’s head into the ASB on a high note.
SRT, I will ask you a quick question… What exactly were you praying for when DW came to the plate?
any kind of hit to just get the run in. Exactly what he did.
Are you SRT???? You guys B**** and complain about us calling wright unclutch, yet you are the first one as soon as he gets a clutch hit to rush here and let us know how he is clutch..
Stop it ok, good for him, we won… as i said, i hope he continues to do this, but come on. Let’s not pretend here he’s some sort of clutch player.. Yet..
This goes back to the idea that there is no real such thing as clutch.
You remember what you want to remember. No matter what Wright does, he’s never gonna be a “clutch” player to you. The only way he could ever shed this unclutch label you gave him is if he hit a GW HR in Game 7 of the playoffs.
That’s too unrealistic of a measurement.
You want him to be unclutch because it gives you a reason to be on the opposite side of the argument.
He can hit another GW hit tonight and you’ll still say he’s not clutch yet.
Proving that this label is more opinion based and in the eye of the beholder and what YOUR expectations are.
Yeah, we don’t even have a true consistent definition of “clutch”. Does it have to be in the 9th inning? Does have to be with two outs? Does it have to be a GW hit? Does it even have to be a hit? Does it have to be a “Robert Redford” moment?
In my opinion, there was a ton of Clutch plays…RAD pitching deep and keeping them in the game without his best stuff was clutch…Thole taking a hit to save a run (especially after his concussion) was clutch…Wright’s 2 run bomb (on a 1-2 count of one of the best pitchers in the NL) was clutch…Wright’s RBI early in the game with two outs was clutch…The Pen, especially Parnell’s perfect 9th was clutch…Murphs great play in the field to take away a hit was clutch…Ike’s dbl to lead off was clutch…Tejada’s walk wih two strikes was clutch…Spins HBP with two strikes was clutch…Murph’s game tying hit with two strikes was clutch…
Wright’s first pitch swinging, getting jammed and resulting in a bloop single after Paps already blew the save and had thrown a ton of pitches was probably the least “clutch” AB that inning…but it was still “Clutch”. But the GWH is the one everyone is going nuts over, but that lucky hit never would have happened if all the other “clutch” moments didn’t happen.
So please define “Clutch” for me?
Probably the same as every Met fan out there…..just get it done. Hell, I would have taken Wright working the count, making Paps waste one in the dirt and crossing my fingers it got by Ruiz.
Along with Ruben and Murph who are great at making contact, having Wright up there in that situational gave us a better chance then some of the others in that lineup.
I took the initiative to answer for you, in case you did not come by. Considering we were conversing about it at the time, I was pretty confident in supplying the answer.
No problem. Looks like we had the same mindset. I would have settled for a balk or HBP there. Like you, I can’t stand the Phillies.
I thought the Ump was going to call Tejada out on last pitch. GREAT at bat.
As pumped as I am I keep thinking about ball 4 to Tejada and how easily it could of gone the other way. The ump really sucked last night but mostly in a good way. There was also a AB by Hairston where the same pitch was thrown twice and one was a ball and the other strike. The zone was all over the place.
That AB by Spin was amazing. Paps just kept going in to get him to back off and he literally said eff that I’m standing right here. If that’s the attitude that people are complaining about then wake up because that is exactly the kind of lightening rod the team needs.
Honestly, I thought the ump was gonna ring him up. It may have been some respect for Tejada who seems to have a great eye at the plate and patient at-bats. Remember that at-bat before he got hurt and took 16 pitches before drawing the walk? Tejada has been amazing and he’s still so young.
Great win last night. This team plays with so much heart and fight it’s hard not to love them. It took almost four years, but it was nice to see that ball drop in to give Wright his first walk off hit since 2008. Hopefully it’s another sign that these Mets are here to stay and we can scrap that plan about waiting until 2014 and support this team by adding the pieces we need to win our third World Series.
Here’s the thing… last night was a HUGE win for this team and the fans. HUGE.
You had a below expectation start from Dickey, and when a guy like that who usually rolls has issues it can be demoralizing.
You had some great defensive plays in that game. Murph’s, Wright’s “clutch” defensive play late in the game to end the inning, that was a hard hit ball that 2 years ago he messes the throw up.
You had Beato come into a very tough situation and show he can be a valuable arm which is huge for this bullpen.
You had an all-star overpaid closer come in and throw absolute GAS. I’ve seen a lot of Papelbon games living in the New England area, I haven’t seen him throw that hard in a long time.
Then you had Ike Davis with a great at bat, Tejada and Valdespin having PATIENT at bats and showing what plate discipline CAN do when its done right. The Mets didn’t need a guy hacking away up there, they needed to force Papelbon to beat them and he didn’t.
Murph’s AB was “alright” but sometimes you gotta be more lucky than good. 3 years ago that ball bounces off Papelbon’s ankle, into Ruiz’s glove for an easy out.
Then you have Wright fight off a tough pitch and get the GW hit.
What is NOT to love about this performance last night?
The ONLY people in this thread spreading ANY negativity are the ones who just hate David Wright.
Here’s a memo.
On July 6, 2007 the Mets were 47-38, in 2008 they were 44-44.
This team is giving YOU the fan something to believe in. It’s about the 30+ players who have suited up for the Mets and have played their butts off despite EVERYBODY telling them they weren’t good enough.
This is a team that is giving you EVERYTHING they have every night. You get 162 games as a fan, most fan bases don’t get to experience what we have in front of us.
It’s time to get on board or jump off ship. David Wright is a Met. Sandy Alderson is the GM. It doesn’t matter.
It’s all about the Mets.
AGREE Jessep,
LETS GO METS
I have always said the 2008 team didn’t really choke. They were actually clutch to even get back in the race and just like a basketball game where you came back from 20 down had nothing left. Obviously as soon as they saw the shoe hanging over them in September they expected it to drop but who can blame them? Besides look at the flaws of that team.
I think the problem is the constant need from both sides for vindication here. is Wright always clutch? No. Is he always unclutch? No. It’s amazing how nothing can ever be in the middle in the land of extremes. Wright hasn’t came through as much in the clutch the last few years for many reasons from him not being mentally right physically right, the team around him stinking too, and the pressure they all felt after 2007-08. Fact is now he is locked in and having one of the best seasons a Met has ever had. Why can’t we understand the desire for Mets fans to praise Wright now and just enjoy the ride?
I don’t know what his numbers are in walk off games since 2008, but take a worst case scenario and say is he is oh for four.He is now one for five or .200.If he delivers next time he is two for six or .333 and one of the best in the bigs.
I get it that people love to beat the Phillies….
And I was as happy as anyone else when we beat them last night…
But I think it should be pointed out we beat a team we should have beaten because they are a last place team for a damn good reason!
How important or key will this win be if we get swept by the cubs or lose another series to them?
Truth is the game vs the Cubs are JUST AS important as the ones against the Phillies.
The only difference is we have emotional baggage connected to the Phills but not the Cubs.
But this series starting tonite is just as important as the one we just finished!
Only an article about David Wright could generate 100+ posts without a single word in the story…
That has to be some record.
Fonzie,
You did not read my last post about being a debbie downer – remember, I said I was ntentionlly acting like a debbie downer by using the points you made last year and applying them to this one’s instead? I was playing role reversal and stressed that many times.
The only exception to that, and I have not tried to hide this at all, is that I am truly a debbie downer is when it comes to the front office and the moves they have made which has hurt the Mets from being even better than they were last season and are today.
If you lump the players and the front office together that is being unfair.