27
2012
Mets Matters: The Path To Sustainability
An article by 
Just over 18 months ago, the Mets hired Sandy Alderson in hopes that he could turn around an overpaid and underachieving franchise. In his first season as General Manager, Alderson hired Terry Collins, signed Chris Capuano and Chris Young to small, incentive-laden deals, and plugged some holes on the roster with veterans such as Scott Hairston and Willie Harris. The season turned out to be a tough one to watch, but the Mets’ wallets were strapped and there wasn’t any space in the payroll for big moves. Alderson did trade Francisco Rodriguez for low ceiling prospects, simply to rid the Mets of a terrible contract. He also moved veteran OF Carlos Beltran, in a trade that brought back arguably the Mets current best prospect, Zack Wheeler.
The 2011-2012 offseason had a lot of noise, even though the Mets dropped about $50 million in payroll. Contracts of Jose Reyes, Oliver Perez, Carlos Beltran, Francisco Rodriguez, and Luis Castillo were finally off the books and the Mets saw their payroll shrink to about $91 million. This provided invaluable financial relief to a team that clearly needed to rebuild. The offseason brought in a few notable players, mostly in the bullpen. The Mets traded Angel Pagan for Ramon Ramirez and Andres Torres. Through free agency, they signed Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch. Finally, they added Ronny Cedeno and Omar Quintanilla in order to provide some middle infield depth.
Two and a half months have passed in this season and the Mets somehow are still in the playoff hunt. Led by All-Star Starter candidate R.A. Dickey and Johan Santana, the pitching rotation has taken form, despite the loss of Mike Pelfrey to Tommy John surgery. David Wright is a surefire All-Star as he’s hitting over .350. The Mets lead the MLB in 2-out runs which has fueled this team to improbable heights in the first half of the season. So now the question is, what do the Mets need to do to sustain this success?
Sustainability is not a word you hear much in baseball, but it’s one that is endearing to a General Manager. His goal will always be to field a winning team year after year. The Mets were able to accomplish that for a small stretch between 2006 and 2008, but to put together a team that can be successful for a longer period of time is crucial for a team that needs more revenue. The simple fix would be to go and get star talent, like the Mets did in 2005 with Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran; however, the Mets are not in position where they can add a ton of payroll. The Mets must build through their farm system and fill holes through free agency before they can afford the Albert Pujols’ and Prince Fielder’s of the world.
Sandy Alderson has done a tremendous job of staying patient and intelligent, without putting the future of this franchise in jeopardy. With Mejia, Familia, Wheeler, and Harvey down in AA and AAA, the Mets have four good to great pitching prospects that should be ready to help the Mets in the next two years. After the 2013 season, the Mets will likely recoup $40 million off their payroll (Santana and Bay). This is a HUGE amount of money that will allow the team to offer David Wright, Ike Davis, R.A. Dickey, Lucas Duda, Ruben Tejada, and Josh Thole some formidable offers to remain on the team. The Mets’ are clearly rebuilding, but they are winning. It’s the best of both worlds.
The Mets need bullpen help and that is a position which should come fairly cheap in today’s market. Alderson will not give up any of his Tier 1 or 2 prospects, because he values the farm system as much as any other GM in the MLB. He knows that the chances of the Mets reaching the postseason this year are low, but he does want to make sure that he gives the team a chance. If this team plays meaningful games in September, the stadium will be packed and his Owner will be happy. It’s as simple as that. The only problem is that he wants to keep winning and making a crazy trade with some of his prospects will not make it easier to achieve that goal.
So what should the Mets do this trade deadline? Here is what I think:
- Move Reese Havens for a Reliever – this is somewhat contradictory to what I said Alderson is thinking, but Havens simply has not been the player that the Mets envisioned him to be. He has struggled to stay healthy and he’s hitting .204 as a 25 year old in AA. He’s also taking up a valuable spot on the 40 man roster.
- Move Daniel Murphy to a strict platoon with Ronny Cedeno. This is basically already happening, but Murphy is just in a funk. He hasn’t hit well in a month and it’s time to take a step back and let him get comfortable again. Cedeno has hit better as of late and is a much better defensive player.
- Bring back Manny Acosta – before you scream at the possibility, Acosta has a 1.54 ERA in AAA, with 11 K’s in 11 2/3 innings with 0 BB. He’s doing something right down there and it might be time to give him another chance.
- Give Jason Bay one more opportunity as Full-Time LF- This would create a platoon in CF with Torres and Kirk, but Bay looks to be on his way back from the concussion. He is symptom free and could be back in the next couple weeks, which would be very encouraging for his long-term health. Bay has one thing working for him that others on the team can’t really offer: right handedness. He simply has to be that bat in between Duda and Davis that poses a threat to left-handed pitchers.
These are just a few of my thoughts, what would you do to try and fix this team?
About the Author: Sagar Parikh
Senior at Villanova University and passionate sports fan. Whether its baseball or curling, you can find me in front of the TV. I love the Mets and my favorite player of all-time is Mike Piazza. If you want someone to just chat about sports, I'm your guy!
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Welcome, Sagar. You are about to be tarred and feathered for some of what you’ve just written, written well , I should add.
I personally disagree about Acosta and Bay. Acosta has found his niche; he’s a AAA talent.
Bay, no disrespect to the man himself, will never add anything to this team. True he is a R-H bat, but he is such a lame one for us.
As for Cedeno/Murphy platoon, I’m not feeling good about that. I don’t know that a guy like Cedeno will ever be more than an avg. utility player. Maybe is Murph is the same with bad hands, but I have to say, Murph looked good at the plate and almost competent on 2b for the first two months of the season. He doesn’t strike me as a player who well do well–emotionally or otherwise–as a backup. If the Mets move Murph, I would prefer to see Turner as an everyday guy. I like what he brought to the team when he was an everyday player last year.
Good luck trying to get a answer, tried all day yesterday with the Sandy haters but they just wanted to hate and were too afraid to document how they would like the team to move forward. God forbid Sandy does what they want and its used against their agenda. Cowards.
Anyhoo, this is a .500 team and should be treated as such. They are in it so try and improve but don’t sacrifice long term goals. For me the pen and a power bat are desperately needed and if they can address 2nd, that’s awesome. Only give up a Wheeler/Harvey if they can get a young stud that can be kept for multiple years.
As for your steps, I have no problem with any except the Bay one. It’s time for Bay to go home. He is a complete disruption to the team and my gut says if he still wants to play its probably not for the Met’s anymore. He has had too many chances.
‘…this is a .500 team and should be treated as such. They are in it so try and improve but don’t sacrifice long term goals. For me the pen and a power bat are desperately needed and if they can address 2nd, that’s awesome. Only give up a Wheeler/Harvey if they can get a young stud that can be kept for multiple years. ‘
Couldn’t agree more. We’re not one piece away from post season – more like several.
Moves should be looked at not only for short term success but long term as well.
the problem is all our players are platoon type players,except DW.we need more players who can actually hit lefties and righties
I wouldn’t say they are all platoon style players just some would never be on the team at all if it wasn’t in rebuild/payroll slash mode. Hairston, Murph Torres are definitely platoon guys. Thole, Duda might not even be playing or relegated to backup roles. Tejada is showing he can be a started and we’ll see how Kirk adjusts. Kirk is athletic enough that I feel he would be given a shot regardless of the teams situation.
Are we differentiating between platoon and bench? Because I think Torres would be the latter.
Duda, Tejada, Ike, and Kirk can all start in the majors, I just don’t know if all on the same team. With Den Dekker moving up, Kirk may be the odd man out of the equation.
Murphy can probably be a super utility guy. If ‘Spin cuts down on the Ks and plays solid defense, he can take 2B.
You got answers you just didn’t like them because they required going after really good players not another half assed attempt at fixing the Bullpen for the third time in a year and a half!
Nice try spin-miester. Saying you want a all star is not a direction and is a easy way out of a question and others just wouldn’t answer it all.
So do you want to be on record for not addressing the bullpen because you think he will make it even worse? The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t approach? Just say so. Just keep in mind the patron saint is not going away soon so if you just want him to never do anything and let the team stand pat for his tenure than just say so.
You have stated no direction either just want to take another crack at what you failed at twice in a year and a half!
Getting a closer is not going to save you all those loses ramirez and rauch have been racking up and it sure isn’t going to help you make Byrdak more available….
You basically goin after a guy to replace the best pitcher of the bad “Good Day” bunch thats all your doing!
And all you will accomplish is having Francisco blow the games he blew as a closer in the 7th or 8th inning instead!
One closer (which is all you mentioned) is not going to solve you pen issies you need two or three guys and they can all be found internally!
You obviously are not even reading what I have been typing. So I bid good day to you sir.
Sure I have other than bullpen what NAME have you suggested we go get?
You sure harped on everyone for a name yesterday and when you got one still insisted we were not answering you!
We get it you want to just do what we been doing, Minor deals and go after pen with no solutions for the lack of power and lack of RS just keep on playing musical chairs and fantasy league baseball with the LF and 2B position.
We are 20th in SLG…you don’t address it!
We are 25th in HRs …you ignore!
All your really concerned about is Saving Sandy’s butt from the fire of his own creation!
I’m still waiting for the answer to the question I asked you yesterday….
Which move has Sandy made to date that was a good one and has helped the MLB team!
And don’t run to wheeler who hasn’t pitched an inning in the MLB yet!
Be fair and seperate the leagues. AL has a DH, I don’t know how you think that’s fair. We’re 5th in the NL in runs and if we had some power we’d move up in that category.
DH? Sounds lie an attempt at stat manipulation if you ask me! Throw out a bunch of teams so you can say we are #3 instead of #8!
Funny how it doesn’t seem to be a problem for StLouis and Colorado who is ACTUALLY #3 and #4
Welcome Sagar to MMO. As far as your ideas I don’t think Havens will fetch much right now worthy of trading him. I can’t help but be suspect of Acosta’s AAA numbers as a sign to bring him up. Too much water under the bridge I guess. I think Bay will get a chance cause there just is no other alternative. He is a right-handed bat and they are already paying him a huge salary.
As far as ideas to help the team I think the pen will probably be best handled via internal options. Unless they can get say a KRod in a similar salary dump type deal from the Brewers. I’d say getting a Beatto,Mejia,Edgin from AAA may be a better alternative if they can get those guys pitching well at AAA.
Intriguing thoughts regarding your quick fixes, but I’m afraid it will take more than Manny Acosta, Ronny Cedeno and more of Jason Bay to get this team going. Bay is finished as far as I’m concerned, but that wont keep the Mets from benching him as the should. Hairston is a much better right-handed hitter and has more power than Bay and when Bay relegates him back to the bench it would be a downgrade in LF not an upgrade.
Here is my feelings….
First off your not going to fix the Bullpen via a deadline trade. At best you’ll get yourself a closer which really isn’t the problem when you consider Francisco is probably the best of that sorry bunch Sandy had acquired. No one trades middle relief and if you trade for it your only going to overpay for it. The Pen will have to be fixed via internal candidates there are bigger things that can be done. Use Beato, Acosta, See what Hampson can do, Edgin you only need two guys to succeed right now to pitch the 7th and 8th innings to really put a dent into the pen problems.
We need a REAL RH Power bat, Hairston is a good PH but he is not an everyday player. Bay is not a hitting RHB let alone a power RHB…I think he is done at this point. By adding Power we will score some more runs which will make a blown save or blown lead just a little harder to do and easier to overcome.
Possible targets are:
Gonzalez (Rockies)
Ross (Boston)
Soriano (Cubs)
Gomes (Oakland)
I actually agree with you about Acosta but not till after the ASG. He is a second half pitcher and always has been. He would be on a very short leash once he comes back and He’s a this year fix only though and will be gone from the organization by this time next year.
Cedeno is not the guy to platoon with Murphy, Turner is! At least as long as Valdespin is in Buffalo. I wanted them to Platoon Valdespin with Murphy and Hairston vs RHP and LHP. Valdespin would play LF vs RHP, Murphy 2B and Hairston LF vs LHP with Valde at 2B. But since valde was sent down Turner is the guy to take Murphy’s place in any platoon.
There are only two maybe three untouchables in the Minors that should not be part of a trade.
Harvey and Wheeler, I might include Den Dekker in there but not Flores. As good as he is he is another Murphy in waiting, Got a great bat but he has no position of his own. Since he is a top prospect he is a good trade chip and we can make do without him if we have to.
VinnyB yesterday suggested going after a starter. (Grienke I believe it was) And it’s a very acceptable move for me. It would mean we are demoting someone from the starting rotation such as Gee or Young. We have seen Gee out of the pen and it wasn’t very good but it was a short sample size, Young might be ok but since he is a flyball pitcher I’m not sure he is the kind of guy you want coming in from the pen. But a move like this would really set us up long term and beyond 2014 where the big issue of the day will be do we extend Santana or let him go. I suggested this offseason that a smart move might be sending Santana to the pen to protect his shoulder for a year until we sorted out the pen and rotation. Not really in the cards after he threw a bno hitter though is it. Still is an option to me though. While he threw a NO NO he still is a .500 pitcher at this point and it’s the nono and CG shutout back to back that has us thinking he is pitching great. Since then? Meh? Good enough to win and sometimes not good at all (see the Yankee HR barrage and yes I know he had a good excuse for that game)
Bottomline here is everyone wants the FO to fix the pen yet in a year and a half and Two attempts at it as a FOCUS of thier work, they have only made it even worse on every attempt!
From an under 4.0 ERA to an under 5.0 ERA to an above 5.0 ERA….
Sorry but I simply don’t trust them and thier methods for evaluating relief pitchers and surely don’t want them to trade away young chips to get someone who pitches at best 3 innings every 5 games. Not worth it!
Fix the pen from within with guys like Beato, Maybe Mejia and Familia (short term) or any one of a dozen MiL pitchers we have down on the farm.
Now was that so hard? I know you need to spin and spin every comment section but this is all you needed to do.
Dude all of this was said yesterdy you just refused to acknowlege it because you insited on names that you yourself refused to provide until I pointed out your duality on the insistence of one side but not yourself!
As I said yesterday Sandy is not going to find a decent middle relief BP trade that he doesn’t pay way more than he should for what is truly just a bandaid!
And even if there was a deal out there Sandy would most likely pick the wrong guy and do worse considering his past track record.
I said every thing above yesterday about the Power RHB and gave an example of who to go after.
You just wanted to ignore it because all you really wanted to do was trash those who trash sandy as having no clue!
Face it SANDY is the reason why we need Bullpen help right now!
And that is a main reason WHY we don’t think much of Sandy!
In two offseasons the only move he has made that can be justified and MIGHT (mind you not definite) come out on the plus side is Wheeler for Beltran!
And he could have even SEALED the victory by resigning Beltran in the offseason!
Cause that would get rid of the need for a power RH bat now wouldn’t it?
Would solve the lack of power and HR hitter we have…
Would add a boatload of RBIs that would make those blown saves less likely to be blown and games where the starter had a bad day a bit more winnable!
As good as you think the Wheeler trade was good the Pagan trade was simply awful and until you realize that those who are taking Sandy to task are taking him to task for what he HAS done not what he has failed to do the sooner you will see we aren’t being unfair at all. The only ones who feel we are have this agenda about keeping the polish on Sandy!
Well all the crud that is on him is due to those horrible moves he has made in two offseasons and a year and half of running things.
If I’m Carlos Beltran, the last thing i would have done is come back to the Mets. I don’t understand why you think he would have happily come back. The team was obviously in a rebuild, at this stage in his career why bother? Loyalty? Like the loyalty the team showed him by publicly questioning the decision to have knee surgery? Face it, Beltran was great yes. But the spacioys outfield at Citi wasnt conducive to his declining health. The mets werent offering big $, and with the on going rebuild it wasn’t a place most free agents were going to take a below market offer to come play. Just use some logic Metsie.
I wouldn’t bother man.
yes waste of time especially since he is NOT Carlos Beltran!
All of the crap you guys keep mentioning as reasons happened when Omar Minaya was the GM not Sandy!
But you will keep pressing that issue as if it holds any weight….
Hey Metsie, Beltran did a piece for ESPN’s E:60 last month that was more focused on his baseball school that he runs in PR and on it he said there was no way he re-signing with the Mets. He enjoyed his time with the Mets and wished they had a different outcome but this is his last contract and that he was going to a top tier contender only. Just let it go man.
Yep no way he was resigning because Sandy wasn’t interested and wasn’t shy about it!
Just let it go all you have are assumptions and suppositions with a sprinkling of misquotes!
Fire Geren. Trade for both Quentin and Street (will say Familia, Havens, plus a couple others?). Quentin in RF, move Duda to LF. Frank to Setup role. DFA Bautista, demote Rameriz, call up Beato. If needed, DFA Rauch and call up someone else (Acosta if needed).
I think that would firm up the team this year, we’d have Street on an option for next year and if I’m reading this correctly, Quentin would be 3rd year eligible for 2013. So, there is more than just 1 year out of each and doesn’t take away much flexibility for next year.
I was on board until you mentioned bring up Acosta.
Ha. Well, to counter that, it’s highly unlikely Acosta will ever be needed.
Would you accept a guy with a 8-4 record 2.85 ERA, .243 BAA 48BB 112K 99H 8 HRs in 110 Innings?
Cause if you would that’s Acosta’s splits when pitching in the second half of the season.
He sucks in the first half and always had!
After watching Acosta and his near 12 ERA this year and how he folds in close game s would you expect him to come close to an ERA of 2.85. He’s fine in a mop up role after the game has been decided but he’s a gasoline to the fire type reliever.
All 3 of Sandy’s nightmare day pickups have had exponentially better careers than Manny Acosta and a helluva lot more consistent over the full season rather than Acosta and I don’t think you would care less that they were much better before they got here.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=ramirra02&year=Career&t=p#half_extra. Ramon Ramirez’s 2nd halves have been better over a larger body of work but I don’t think you want him here do you? It’s all about who brought which guy here rather than the pitcher himself to you. If Sandy was the one who brought Acosta here you couldn’t give 2 sh_ts about Acosta’s 2nd half. Especially since you didn’t mention Ramirez being better than Acosta in the 2nd half.
Yeah well Acosta didn’t cost us a .300 hitting CFer either!
No! Neither did Ramirez. He cost us a 262 hitter with about as bad a defensive CFer as we’ve seen in many years as Met fans. Also the 2nd lowest baseball IQ to only Dan Murphy, possibly even lower. He’s also been terrible in CF with SF. No too many people were complaining after trading Pagan, in fact before the trade, just about everybody here were looking for ways to upgrade CF defensively. Nuiewenhuis and Torres have both been upgrades defensively and Torres has taken a step back over his career. That’s how poorly Pagan is playing defense in CF the last year and a half. Did you even watch Pagan play last year he was awful? You keep complaining about the good players purged but those same good players haven’t produced a winning season in 4 years so what did we really lose more sub 500 baseball? How many more years do you keep trying with that group before you go in a different direction? And you can keep complaining about the bullpen all you want, we know it’s been awful but we haven’t had a good bullpen since a famous cab ridein 2006 so we should all be used to blowing games left and right. 12 walkoff losses alone in 2010, 5 of them by P. Feliciano. I don’t even have to bring up 07 and 08, 09 and 11.
What is Pagan’s BA as of today?
OOOOPS!
295 and if he did that last year and played decent defense and didn’t run the team out of innings on the basepaths he’d still be here.
We’ve gotten more runs scored, HR’s, RBI’s and better overall run production from Kirk and Torres combined with much better defense and much less mental lapses than Pagan has given SF this year. We haven’t missed Angel at all this year with what we’ve got from our guys, So I don’t see what the problem is. We’re better off without Angel. Addition by subtraction.
Are you even capable of making a statistical comparison without weaseling in some stat modifier to make a point you really don’t have if you don’t play fishy with the numbers?
Did Torres hit .295 last year? NO! So there goes that theory regarding Pagan’s performance from last year when he was hurt. Compare what Torres did last year to Pagan…Oh why not is is because he loses even worse then too?
As for your iccessant use of modifiers…How does Torres PLUS Kirk compare to Pagan 2012 PLUS Kirk?
Or why not do what most everyone else would do get rid of the modifier who is commong to both and do a straight up 1 to 1 comparison?
Is it because the only way Torres looks as good as Pagan is when you attribute Kirk’s numbers to him?
“Fire Geren. Trade for both Quentin and Street (will say Familia, Havens, plus a couple others?). Quentin in RF, move Duda to LF. Frank to Setup role. DFA Bautista, demote Rameriz, call up Beato. If needed, DFA Rauch and call up someone else (Acosta if needed).”
Add Luke Gregerson to that deal and I agree with what you said, except for a few things:
A) Calling up Acosta. I’d rather have Beato up and deal Acosta.
B) Duda shifting over. Regardless where he goes, he’s a mannequin in the outfield. See if some AL contenders will take interest in him and get another OF.
Also, make the move for Balfour.
Hampson. Beato. Byrdak. Ramirez. Gregerson. Balfour. Francisco. Street.
Strong pen going down the stretch.
Also, go after a catcher like Kelly Shoppach or Kurt Suzuki (for defensive purposes).
One more thing, while I like the Greinke idea that’s being passed around, but ultimately, that’s all it is: an idea. Greinke’s head would probably explode in NY. What about Marcum when he returns?
P.S. Hey Metsie, don’t know if you heard, but O’Dowd (Rockies GM) said CarGo’s going nowhere, so that’s that.
If anything, how about going after Dexter Fowler and move Kirk to RF to round out the OF? Legit leadoff guy and a very good CF who looks like he’s turned the corner.
CF Fowler
SS Tejada
3B Wright
1B Davis
LF Quentin
RF Nieuwenhuis
2B Murphy/Valdespin (should Murph be traded)
C Shoppach
I have no issue with them getting a CF instead…
Just don’t see where that does anything for the power hitting which is a much bigger need IMO.
But anything that gets Torres out of there and allows us to replace Bay is perfectly fine with me….
As for what the intention is with CarGo…Well things change, especially the GM of a team that is a complete disaapointment.
I think the amount of salary to take on would ultimately be too much, but I would prefer to add Suzuki as well. Clear up upper level flotsam and get players for more than just year of controlability.
I think Oakland realizes they have to eat a chunk of Suzuki’s salary for someone to take him off their hands. He’s making $5 million this year and $6.4 million next year with a team option for 2014 (in which the Mets can easily decline for the $650,000 buyout). If Oakland eats, done deal.
if they can pick up a guy like street just by taking on salary (with a carson level guy back) do it now.
I believe you have to evaluate the Mets as we near the all star deadline in 2012 vis-a-vis the rest of the NL East. It does not appear that there is a dominant team in the division. It would take to long to detail the pros and cons of each team but suffice it to say that except maybe for the Phillies (and I don’t rule them out because Utley isn’t back yet) that we could go to the end of the season where all the teams in this division are separated by 4-5 games from top to bottom. Therefore Alderson and Collins must make decisions as if the Mets can win the division or a wild card. With that on their minds I see shoring up the bullpen rather than major trades or throwing in the towel on key players that in a year or two could make the Mets a real dominant team. That’s my take.
I’m going to skip over the comments being I already know there is back and forth going on featuring name calling and the poorest of poor grammar.
The Mets bullpen is horrible, yes. But welcome to the MLB, where there’s only a handful or so teams that anyone can say has a solid reliable bullpen. You’re spot on with trading Havens and maybe other prospects for a pen arm. There is enough young talent playing in the majors alone right now where Alderson SHOULD feel comfortable parting with a minor leaguer or two in order to upgrade the bullpen. Especially make the move if its a decent pen arm where the Mets would have control for more than the end of the year. A bunch of arms are going to be shuffled around and I hope the Mets luck out and get one (OR TWO) that work out.
I believe the attached article and follow-up comments best explains why we can’t expect much in sustainability and that this has little to do with Sandy Alderson or Omar Minya but everything to do with the ownership and the situation they got themselves into. Note that the article was written in December but took into account a projected liability that was in the ballpark range of the eventual settlement figure.
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/12/11/2627933/an-in-depth-look-at-the-mets-finances
That article paints a bleak picture. I hope it’s not very accurate.
Hi Fonzie,
I personally believe it is an accurate enough assessment because I sensed the Wilpons were in bad financial shape once Omar stopped going after big money players, the last being Bay, and starting going after the Mike Jacobs, Gary Matthews, Jr., Rod Baharas types instead.
Putting aside the valid question of the wisdom of his prior multi-year signings, it was an abrupt departure from a behavior pattern that existed for half a decade and began to stop after the Madoff scandal surfaced and revenue fell way short of expectations in 2009.
That is why I contend the player moves made the past two seasons have little to do with fielding the best team possible or rebuilding for the future as it is fielding a team as least expensively as possible. And, believe it or not, I do not at all blame this on Sandy for his is only continuing to do what Omar did his last season as G.M. (the aforementioned Jacobs, Matthews, etc.). My point of contention was with others who saw the new front office ushering in new long-term baseball philosophy which included “rebuilding”, obtaining undervalued players that other teams overlooked by heavy dependence upon saber metrics and a new economic philosophy of less commitment to lengthy multi-year and expensive contracts.
As you can see from the article, there were reasons why I felt that way.
Hey, thanks again for the advice you gave me in the shout box this afternoon.
Joe
Hi Fonzie,
I personally believe it is an accurate enough assessment because I sensed the Wilpons were in bad financial shape once Omar stopped going after big money players, the last being Bay, and starting going after the Mike Jacobs, Gary Matthews, Jr., Rod Baharas types instead.
While I agree with that 100% that Omars checkbook was taken away from him that was when they had a billion dollar lawsuit hanging over them and that article was before the case was settled out of court and that was settled at 162 million with which they are entitled to clawback money which brings it down to 29 million and some reports have the Mets coming out on top 16 million richer.
And I also don’t think any of those moves were based on undervalued players acquired in 2011 because none of those players had any hidden market inefficiencies like your buddies tried to pull over you. They are they extreme other side of the fence that gets your side of the fence against the front office. I believe they are called sabergoons. I call them sabergeeks. They were quick roster fillers to fill about 13 holes with about 9 million. Good luck finding market ineffeciencies with that. I just hope that the lawsuit in the rear view mirror changes the outlook somewhat. We’ll know more this winter.
“And I also don’t think any of those moves were based on undervalued players acquired in 2011 because none of those players had any hidden market inefficiencies like your buddies tried to pull over you. They are they extreme other side of the fence that gets your side of the fence against the front office. I believe they are called sabergoons. I call them sabergeeks. They were quick roster fillers to fill about 13 holes with about 9 million. Good luck finding market ineffeciencies with that. I just hope that the lawsuit in the rear view mirror changes the outlook somewhat. We’ll know more this winter.”
Hi Fonzie,
While I wouldn’t use some of those adjectives to describe them, yes, there is such a bandwagon of those with such blind faith in saber stats along with money ball that it does not allow them to seperate myth from reality – the same reasons why the Brad Pitt film did not deserve a best picture nomination.
Now, not to say those saber stats do not reveal some real interesting figures – but the tendancies about a player brought out by AIR, Rbaser, etc are not things an astutue baseball person wouldn’t know already so they don’t reveal anything new except in terms of carrying out a percentage to the infinite decimal point And things like BAbip, RAA, BREP, WAA are probably the most useless pieces of information around except for those who are into calculative study and fantasy leagues.
Also, as we both agree, stats are just profiles and do not reveal the true merit of the player’s worth. Reminds of a cartoon that appeared in a magazine (New Yorker?) decades ago. The catcher goes to the mound to speak to the pitcher saying “I don’t know much about this guy, let’s see what his bubblegum card says”.
As