11
2012
MMO Fair Or Foul: Forget Triple-A, Promote Zack Wheeler To The Mets Now
An article by 
Hey, I haven’t done of these in a while, but after I read something over at ESPN New York this morning, I just knew it was time for a new edition of MMO Fair or Foul…
Each week, ESPN senior baseball editor Matt Meyers and Mets blogger Mark Simon convene to discuss the upcoming week for the Mets. I think you’re going to find today’s discussion kind of interesting. Check it out:
Is there a move the Mets could make to stem the bleeding?
Meyers: If the Mets really believe they can contend, calling up Zack Wheeler is the one move that could really stir things up. There is a decent chance that he will be as good as he will ever be between now and 2016 or so — unlike hitters, many pitchers peak in their early 20s — and the club should try to maximize that window. His secondary stuff might not really be ready, but his fastball is good enough to make him effective while his stuff develops. If nothing else, he’s proven he should be in Triple-A.
Do you agree?
As a matter of fact, two different scouts from two rival teams have already gone on record as saying that Wheeler can pitch and succeed in the majors right now.
Those of you who read our site regularly, know how high we are on Wheeler and how impressed we’ve been from going to the games to see him pitch and even talking to him first hand. He exudes confidence and if anyone in our system was up for the challenge, it’s him.
Right now, Wheeler has nothing left to prove in Double-A Binghamton. He’s 6-2 with a 1.66 ERA. In 59.2 innings pitched he has allowed just 32 hits and 25 walks while striking out 67 batters. He has a 0.950 WHIP and the league is batting .159 against him.
Wheeler just turned 22, do you agree with Meyers who says that many pitchers peak in their early 20′s?
Lets talk about this… What are you thinking?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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Too soon. Let him get in some reps in AAA Buffalo now that Mejia is in the pen. I’d consider Wheeler to join the big league team possibly out of ST next year along with Harvey.
Why is it too soon?
And why is Brandon down below going nuts? Are we there monitoring him? No. Have established major league scouts said he’s ready to pitch in the majors now?
Yes
That being said if the front office decides to bring him up sooner rather than later and all parties agree he’s ready than..BRING HIM UP.
If they decide he’s ready than he’s ready and that’s that.
Agreed too soon. He is ready for Buffalo. I’d give him a cup of coffee in September.
I don’t just hate the idea, I DESPISE THE IDEA! Why ruin the development for a guy who is going to be the future ace of the rotation in acouple years? Remember Mike Pelfrey, remember Fernando Martinez? If we continue to rush development on these guys, its only going to hurt us. I say he should continue to develop. The more time he has to develop, the better Wheeler will be when pitching at the major-league level.
It’s not rushing him.
the idea is, keep them where they are until they have done what was needed to move up. And pitchers are certianly handled differently than position guys.
Pelfrey, he really did not have enough MiL time to show that he had enough “stuff” to get by.
wheeler has pitched a lot more in the minors than Pelf ever did.
is he ready? Damned near. Maybe he could fine tune a few more things, but at a certain point, you are just wasting ammo. A guy reaches a certainly level where they are, and they don’t really get “better” (develop more) they just keep doing what they do.
Now, I think that stright to the majors certainly is aggressive (if nothing else), but hell yeah, send him to AAA soon. If he can manhandle the more experienced hitters there, then fast track him.
David wright ike davis skip triple A duda have Less then a hundred at bats thier niese played in the majors before he triple A. This stuff happens a lot and scouts like this guy and says he major league ready.
Did those 2 scouts happen to work for the Phillies and Nationals? Ya, I’m sure they’d love that move.
I don’t get that at all.
First off, if they wanted to do something radical like this; they’d call Harvey up first.
Second, Wheeler is starting to turn the corner in his development. He’s 22 years old, and by 2016 he will only be 26. If from today through 2016 is as good as it gets with Wheeler then its not a happy ending for the Mets regardless of when he gets called up.
Wheeler has to become 1 of 2 things for the Mets. At minimum a #3 starter for 4 years or a dominating late game reliever for many years.
You don’t call him up after 10 AA starts.
I believe a pitcher STARTS to decline at 28 or so.
This coming from the guy who argued with me for a week saying players reach their peak at 26/27. Wow!
Maniac, if they peak at 27, then yeah, they start to decline at 28!
Still, the decline should be modest at that point (assuming no injury).
First off you’re changing what I said because you don’t have the quote to prove it.
Second, I believe a pitcher’s time line is roughly 25-28 of their best years and then they start to decline.
So that kinda goes hand in hand with what you think I said. The only difference is you think “decline” means 20 wins to 5.
As an athlete gets older and takes less steroids, they get less strong, less fast, less durable and have less endurance.
There will always be exceptions. For example, RA Dickey is an exception.
And by the way, if they called him up today… it’d be as a reliever. I don’t see what that does for him?
You’re not demoting Johan/Dickey/Niese/Gee for him today. You’re not demoting Chris Young until you’ve seen a few more starts, and what if they are good starts?
The Mets do not NEED another solid starter. They need 4-5 solid relievers.
So he can walk the ball park and throw only 4 Innings per game? No thanks… I love the kids make up and stuff, he’s doing great in double A, but his walk rate is very high, yes he’s striking out hitter 10.1 SO/9 but his walk rate 3.8 BB/9 is very high as well, and we’ve seen pitchers dominate in the minors with their overpowering stuff, but then come to the majors and struggle with controls issue etc, he should stay there and work on his control and refine his pitches, in the majors players are more patient. leave him in the minors and THEN bring him up and cross your fingers, don’t mess the kid as we’ve seen what that does to some young players if they are called up and struggle.. they lose it for good!
agreed, but those are also good reasons to send him to AAA. different type of hitter up there (older, ML experience, more likely to be patient and take advantage, etc.).
we should not do everything to get wins THIS YEAR .
Sure Double A always translates well into MLB for a pitcher…Not reasonable. Development is key. One more year for him at least.
Amen dude . IF the mets are in it near the deadline,make some damn trades
Foul. These guys are just talking because they love the sound of their own voices. This isn’t even close to happening.
What is close to happening is a few more starts in AA, and then AAA to close the year. At 22, there’s no rush for Wheeler. The Mets won’t seriously be looking to count him until 2014; at the earliest, mid 2013.
I think depending on the off-season you could see him competing for a starting spot in spring training. Not saying he will get it but be in the mix and see how he handles that pressure. Then most likely you are looking at June or July.
Agreed. Get him in big league camp, and let him pitch for a spot. Then unless he has 20 perfect innings, option him to minor league camp. He gets more seasoning, you delay his clock, and he’s ready to stick for good come June or July.
I say let him get better control cause of all his faults, minor ones I’m sure, control is a big one and as seen with Ramirez, not saying he is same pitcher, you can’t work on your control in Majors either in BP or as starter cause it will retard your development, lack of confidence and put a team that is thinking about possible, I say possible WC behind the notion of winning while trying to develop an awesome pitcher who lacks control.
Anyway I say foul, let him continue to work on his control and if later in season you bring him and Harvey up for a taste but then what do you do with Gee, Niese, Young?
Now Niese has shown that he has the “cojones” to work out of tough innings as has Gee lately; has this been done by Wheeler yet? Just asking.
So does the so called “peak” for pitchers at 28 as some say applicable to all pitchers, LH vs RH pitchers, power pitchers, crafty “Maddox” type pitchers, pitchers with smooth motions, pitchers that were rushed to majors, pitchers that started in BP first vs straight to rotation pitchers, etc; there are too many variables to include Wheeler in the so called “28″ peak performance w/o seeing how he performs in AAA and Majors, just saying.
Right now Wheeler has the same amount of innings pitched as Harvey had in AA and though Wheeler’s numbers are better as good as the kid has pitched especially over his last 5 starts he is still doing it against AA hitters. Look at how Harvey and Familia have fared of late in AAA. Wheeler may have the same growing pains if and when he is promoted to AAA.
Wheeler may be promoted to AAA soon enough if he continues to pitch the way he has of late. Then it is a matter of seeing how he handles AAA and a possible September call up.
The Mets major need right now isn’t starting pitching. In games two and three of the subway series, the Mets starters were better than the Yankees. With Mejia being moved to the pen at Buffalo, they have an openin on their rotation. With Wheeler being moved to Buffalo, it gives the Mets time to see how Young and Gee work out. If they flop, the extra time at AAA for Wheeler will only make him a better pitcher when he is brought up. Average or one pitch pitchers peak in their early 20s the great one get better with age. Does anyone consider Wheeler average or a one pitch pitcher?
If Zack Wheeler can come up to the Mets and play a kick-ass shortstop, or even first-base for them, then I say bring him up!
Petey — If pigs could fly, why not have Zach play kick-ass shortstop and even first-base at the same time? I used to watch the ace pitcher, Eddie Feigner, play software with his four players easily beating teams of ten. Roy Stephenson and the ex-Knick, Dick Surhoff, were just about as good on the software diamond. They played games at Jones Beach.
P.S.: Dick Surhoff is the father of B.J. Surhoff, who played 17 years in the majors at Milwaukee, Baltimore and Atlanta.
I say send him to triple A and see were he stands by all star weekend give or take a week or so after and if he continues to dominate along with Harvey then why not bring him up and see what the kids got but I’m all for leaving him in double and triple A for the rest of this season to further work on his secondary pitches.
If he mows through the AAA hitter the first 6 games I might consider it…
But I sure wouldn’t jump him from AA to MLB without a few games to see if he can handle it!
What is the hurry? Where are the Mets going right now where they absolutely have to have Wheeler to lead them there? It’s absolutely absurd to consider by-passing AAA to bring Wheeler to the majors now.
“Each week, ESPN senior baseball editor Matt Meyers and Mets blogger Mark Simon convene to discuss the upcoming week for the Mets.”
Yeah what are they smoking before the “discussion” begins? Someone mentioned Pelfrey above. That’s a great example of how you can stunt a pitcher’s growth by rushing him. They did exactly the same thing to Phil Humber too.
The present administration is ultra-conservative in the way they run the ball club. They don’t spend money. They cut development programs like the GCL Mets. They rarely rush prospects, as the minor league promotions this year have been hard-earned by the players who have moved up during the first half.
I see no chance of the conservative philosophies employed by the current Mets regime being thrown out the window, and watching them have Wheeler skip AAA to join a team that’s over-achieving while playing .500 ball. Those guys at ESPM must be having a lot of trouble finding real things to write about these days. Either that or they are trying to attract readers by hyping and dramatizing stories that really aren’t even stories.
“…or they are trying to attract readers by hyping and dramatizing stories that really aren’t even stories.”
I’m leaning more to this view point on the matter.
The way I look at it if he is pitching so well that you might entertain bringing him to the MLB then he should be in AAA already!
Then if he is blowing people away yes it’s worth it to not waste that pitching on dveloping what seems to be developed already and then you can give him a start at the MLB level.
So promote him to AAA and if that knocks a starter out of the rotation there well so be it he isn’t going to be a starter up here anyway might as well start seeing if they can be an effective Reliever cause thats what they are most likely to do if they get to the big leagues anyway!
But put him at AAA to make sure he is done developing first.
OK why do we feel the need to bring him up so soon? Starting pitching really hasn’t been an issue this year. Santana, Dickey, Neise, Gee, and Young are all fine and are one of the reasons this team remains in contention and wins games. The bullpen is what has been the number 1 problem with this team. Unless our starter pitches a complete game, I do not feel comfortable with any lead with this bullpen. Why add another starter to this team? Even if you put him in the bullpen, I feel as though it will hinder his development as a starting pitcher and only limit his future with this team. Overall, I feel that calling him up is just a way for us fans to cope with the struggles we have observed. Calm down and hope we can find some bullpen help or improvement, once that happens, this team will be fine and win more consistently.
Let’s face the facts- The Mets are playing better ball then a lot of us expected. The starting pitching has been outstanding lately and good overall. The Mets lack of power has been made up by their grittiness.
The bullpen sucks – if fact they are worse than we thought they would be. One of the supposed bright spots on acquisitions in the off season was with the bullpen. Their era is baseball’s worst.
The Mets have a couple of hitters that are dragging down the entire team. Start with Ike and end with Bay. Both are hurting the team right now. We had five players who batted yesterday hitting under .200 and one player at the lofty .205.
Not being discussed is what that fumbled double play ball (that would have ended the game against the Nats and put the Mets into first place) took out of this team. I reckon it was a punch to the solar plex and they still have not recovered.
So to speak about bringing up Wheeler – having him leapfrog over AAA – is a distraction.
Let him pitch in AAA. We have the time. He needs the experience. If one of our starters goes down – or pitches himself out of the rotation, then we have this discussion.
This team is not going anywhere this year. Admittedly, they are fun to watch but they are not an elite team and will not make the playoffs.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea but I’d rather see him grow more.
P.S.
I’m cheering for a Bay and Torres injury so we can look at MDD
No, Omar, you do not bring Wheeler to the bigs now. Next year. Maybe.
I can see about wanting to have him finish up this year in AAA, but why “maybe” for next year? How long does a guy have to dominate in the minors before he has accomplished as much as he can? At that point, get him to the majors to finish the learning curve.
Plus, pitchers have a limited # of innings in their arm. No need to waste any in the minors!
The MAYBE is because just sending him to AAA doesn’t guarantee he dominates there!
You can’t assume he will.
And even if he does he still has to win a rotation spot in ST. And he will be competing with:
Santana
Dickey
Niese
Gee
Harvey
Maybe even Familia and Young.
A lot can happen between then and now.
Most guys in AAA are busy polishing thier secondary pitches. If Wheeler doesn’t need any polish there I suggest they spend the time he has in AAA to teach him more advanced lessons like how to set up batters and pitch selection.
you cant compare Wheeler to Fernando Martinez or Mike Pelfrey, the year they brought up Pelfrey from the minors, he had a 4 era. He had no business getting called up, not mention his strikeout numbers were nowhere near Wheelers and Fernando never dominated a minor league level. Zach Wheeler is dominating AA and needs to get called up to AAA or the majors after his next start because this is just a waste of innings right now.