19
2012
Dickey Hurls Second Straight One-Hitter And Sets History In Mets 5-0 Win
An article by Former Writers
After being brutally swept by the Cincinnati Reds, the Mets open their doors to the Orioles and R.A. Dickey tosses his second straight one-hitter and proves that he truly is an AL killer.
R.A. Dickey is coming off of that controversial one-hitter/no-hitter against the Rays, and looks to have brought the same knuckleball with him on the plane ride back from Tampa Bay. His first baserunner was in the third inning when he walked the opposing pitcher, and didn’t give up his first hit until a single in the fifth. He would continue that one-hit bid through the rest of the game to pitch his second consecutive one-hitter. The man, the myth, the legend. Going all nine innings with a complete game shutout of one hit ball, he also struck out thirteen batters, while only walking two.
Throwing some knuckled numbers out there: Dickey picked up his Major League leading eleventh win, winning each of his last nine decisions. He has trimmed his ERA to a smooth 2.00 on the season. In his past five starts, Dickey has allowed no earned runs, 16 hits and five walks while striking out 51 in 41 2/3 innings. In fact Dickey’s last 52.2 Innings include 67 strikeouts and only 26 hits. His performance tonight upped his streak without allowing an earned run to 42 2/3 innings. The franchise record being 49 by Dwight Gooden in 1985. Dickey set the franchise record for consecutive hitless innings pitched at 12. The previous mark: 11 innings by Jack Hamilton in 1966. With 13 strikeouts tonight, Dickey set a career high and now has 103 for the season, in 99 innings. And finally, the Mets faced the Orioles and Buck Showalter, who was the one who suggested he switch to full time knuckle-baller. Irony is funny that way.
The Mets offense was backed by Ike Davis with a grand slam in the sixth inning, the first of his career, and the seventh homerun he has hit this season. Ike going 1-3 tonight with a walk is now hitting .196. Almost back to .200.
As an insurance run in the eighth, after Jordany Valdespin’s first career triple, David Wright hit an RBI single off the shortstop’s glove. 763 career RBIs for Wright. Hitting .353 and getting ready for the All-Star Game.
Notes
Speaking of Dickey converting to the knuckleball thanks to Showalter, Dickey only threw 15 fast balls and 2 curveballs in 114 pitches tonight.
R.A. Dickey is the tenth pitcher since 1900 to pitch a complete game one-hitter in consecutive appearances, and the first pitcher in MLB history with five straight starts of 0 ER & 8+ K.
Dickey has not allowed an earned run in 42.2 innings, the second longest streak in franchise history. Dwight Gooden (49.0 IP in 1985).
Ruben Tejada starts his rehab in Port St. Lucie tonight. He will be joined by Ramon Ramirez who also starts his rehab. Sandy Alderson said this about Tejada, “I’m sure we’ll get him back to Buffalo in short order.”
Ronny Cedeno continues to rehab in Buffalo. Originally, Collins said he might be reactivated midweek, now says the Mets will wait longer to do so.
Bay was examined Monday afternoon by doctors to determine the extent of his latest concussion. Alderson said Bay should return to the doctor on Tuesday before stopping by Citi Field.
Game Ball
Your future starter in the All-Star Game for the National League representing the Mets, the man, R.A. Dickey.
Up Next
Johan Santana (4-3, 3.23 ERA) faces Baltimore’s Tommy Hunter as the Mets continue to host the Orioles. First pitch set for 7:10 p.m on SNY.
About the Author: Former Writers
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love it, game ball and future All Star game starter…RA Dickey….really, does it get any better than this?
Far and away, the best pitcher in MLB, period. To follow up a 1 hit, 12 K performance Vs Tampa with another 1 hit, 13 K performance against the Orioles? Wow. I’d be nervous as hell if I were the Yankees right about now. This guy has been unbelievable.
On a side note, my boy Valdespin looked good as well tonight. Murph, I’d be sweating bullets if I were you.
I’m with you here – it’s time to see what we have a 2B in Valdespin. The time is NOW.
I’d be more nervous if i were Alderson because to keep him he will have to pay RA Dickey HIS price – not Alderson’s price
There’s no chance in hell now that Dickey is going anywhere. I see the Mets using him in any way they can, even what Atlanta did with Smoltz by sliding him into the closer’s role in the future. Worked for Wilhelm too.
Well we’ll see about that. You think RA is not gonna go where the best money is? I bet you he does. I will be you ANY amount of money that the loudest voice that RA wants to hear is the sound of someone saying “I WILL PAY YOU MORE”
That’s how he strikes me and if I were him – and at his age you would do it too.
RA Dickey strikes you as a guy who is about the $?
He’s signed through next year, so I am sure this is something that will be discussed in the offseason.
Dickey got his career going very late in life and you better believe he knows he has a short span of pitching this good and he will go to the highest bidder because he’ll get the most he can for his family.
After next year he’ll make a total of $13 million from 2010-2013.
Now I get what you’re saying… but lets try to not pretend like his family is eating porridge here.
This doesn’t even include his book sales.
The truth is none of us know, to me he comes off as a guy who really enjoys it here and he’s pretty low key and could be tired of bouncing around team to team.
The Mets will grab the club option and then hopefully the Wilpon’s will have $ to offer him.
OR the Wilpon’s will go by the General Manager’s recommendation as to how much he feels they should give Dickey. That’s how it works. That’s what they hire a GM for – to run the business and advise them what to do.
Keep shilling for your boy and keep speaking out of both sides of your mouth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oiQhhdz8ys
Hi Bayonne,
Yes, that is the only way I see R.A. not continuing as a Met – the front office not negotiating in good faith. He understands the business aspect of negotiating contracts but as long as the Mets are genuine in wanting him to stay, I am sure R.A. will feel the same way and not test the waters.
He definitely is not one to tie in a dollar amount with the word “respect” as we know some others have. It will take a lot (I believe) to push him out of New York, but if negotiations don’t at least begin during the winter I’ll wonder how much even a R.A. Dickey might feel disrespected.
“Yes, that is the only way I see R.A. not continuing as a Met – the front office not negotiating in good faith.”
Same old conspiracy theory. Load of garbage. Do you think Alderson is like Jose and Greenberg? Two guys who couldn’t shoot straight from a business perspective.
LOL
Des,
Didn’t I also follow up with “but as long as the Mets are genuine in wanting him to stay, I am sure R.A. will feel the same way and not test the waters.”
Does this sound like a conspiracy theory?. It is simply looking at the various possibilities down the road. The Wilpons are still in deep financial trouble as the following points out:
http://nybaseballdigest.com/2012/03/19/wilponkatz-stop-losing-streak-but-still-not-contenders/
Whether or not this hampers their attempt at re-siging of R.A. I do not pretend to know. That’s why I concluded with saying “if negotiations don’t at least begin during the winter I’ll wonder how much even a R.A. Dickey might feel disrespected” (since money won’t be the number one issue as it is with others). Was simply looking at both sides of the equation.
Since when has Sandy become a straight shooter?
He’s the one who flip flopped more than Jose and Greenberg…
I don’t want to negotiate, Oh wait you don’t want to negotiate now that I do< right back to I don't want to negotiate until someone else sets the price and thehn not even after they set it.
Please Des….lets not rehash this….
All Joey is saying here is if Sandy makes an insulting offer or refuses to co mpensate Dickey based on what he has done is that there is a good possibility Dickey will test the market to see what the market will bare and then from that point if he prefers to stay will give them a discount from market leaving the ball in the beancounter's court!
It's going to take at minimum 3-4 years at 8-10 Mil per year. The more years (and options would count as years) the lower the per year rate Sandy will get!
The guy is 37 and this is going to be his last contract….Sure he will not demand full market rate but he's not going to leave a whole lot of retirement money on the table either!
Metsie — “Please Des….lets not rehash this….” If you don’t want to rehash this issue, it is very easy. Just stay out of it. Do you think Joey D can’t provide an insightful response? I can assure you that Joey can. I just may not agree with Joey’s opinion but that’s the nature of having an opinion. Insinuating yourself into a pair of legitimate differing opinions between Joey and Des is probably not going to let it die. BTW, the main villain in my view is Greenberg. He led Jose to issue a demand without knowing the marketplace. Greenberg was just putting bait on the fish hook.
Hey Des you want to start another Sandy vs Reyes Argument I’m sure game…
But don’t come back 100 comments later and accuse me of starting what you clearly want to start!
In regards to demands Jose made well there were no demands…There were no negotiations between the Mets and Greenburg therefore no demands had ever been made.
Remember Sandy didn’t want to bid against himself and chose to let the Market dictate Reyes’ rate and when it did you guys then tried to make what he got from someone else as an unreasonable demand made to Sandy.
The only time any demands were ever made was after the Marlins made a 6 year 100 Million dollar offer and the demand was MEET that price or we might as well go play where it appears they want me more than you do!
Hi Des,
Please recognize that due to your respect and confidence in Sandy there have been points about our disagreements that I have clearly stated but are being mis-interpetrated. Perhaps saying
“Same old conspiracy theory. Load of garbage..”
and only partially quoting what I said was why Metsi felt he had to clarify the point I was making. I know I felt I had to.
It’s the Wilpons combined past, present and future financial circumstances being on such shaky footing which could prevent even the re-signing of R.A. – not Sandy’s philosophy regarding the roster in terms of both fiscal restraint and years of commitment (BTW – Metsi and I have our own disagreement on how much these other holdings do or do not affect the finanical stability of the franchise).
Wow, Joey that article is not too reassuring as far as the teams ability to spend money anytime soon. Lets hope that it’s more speculation than anything else. The one glimmer of hope is they did make a financial commitment to Niese long term and hopefully they do the same for Dickey. What worries me most is they may have to move Johan’s contract if that financial outlook is acurate. We have no shot without Johan at the front of the rotation.
No, how it works is that owners set budgets and GMs work within them.
As has clearly been the case in recent years with the Mets.
Minaya was given countless tens of millions with which to destroy the team, and Alderson and Collins have thus far done a great job of fielding a .500+ team with the dramatically lowered budget that the Wilpons quite clearly gave them to work with.
Only Minaya didn’t destroy the team – he left your boy with a very good farm system and almost the entire team – including Santana and Dickey belong to Omar Minaya.
Oliver Perez and Castillo did not work out but also had no bearing on the collapses of 07 & 08 in fact you can say Perez helped the team during their post season runs.
You’re just angry about losing out in 2006 and you’re angry about the 2 collapses so now you’re second guessing. And i think Alderson has not done a good job with what little money he’s had.
Imagine if Alderson was able to spend money smartly? His bullpen hurts more than it helps and lot of his little sabermetric, penny pinching journeyman signing have gone belly up. But a few cheapies like Baxter have worked out so far. Maybe if he would have signed less journeyman peeps to minor league contracts or instead of dishing out money for DJ Carrassco he could have engineered trades for Daniel Murphy while his value was up or maybe address the catching situation or maybe get SP at the time even though NOW we may not think we needed it. At the time we did.
This team should be better built than it is now if he was wiser spending money.
Agreed on Alderson’s pen; questionable moves. And while the Pagan trade looked good at the time, it has definitely not worked out.
But, I give him all the credit for Collins, who has been ideal for this group. Omar hired Manuel, who was a disaster.
Also, have you seen Wheeler’s stats and what his curve and slider look like, along with his upper-90s fastball? That move alone could mean SO much for this team.
I was pro-Omar for years, I loved 2005 and 2006, and I am far from a huge Alderson fan yet.
But, I think Omar was a failure due to all of those deals–it wasn’t just a couple–and while I agree that Alderson’s bullpen moves were very questionable, I also think it is beyond doubt that he was given a tiny budget.
If they finish above .500 this year and have a chance to add Wheeler and Harvey next year, this team could have a great rotation.
Bullpen help–and a lot of it–clearly remains job one.
But again, while Alderson’s pen moves were so-so at best, remember that we had to get rid of KRod due to the CRAZY deal Omar gave him. And obtaining a clearly injured JJ Putz was yet another terrible move.
Omar hiring Manuel has nothing to do with Collins being hired by Alderson. Omar also hired Willie Randolph too. Most of us hated the Manuel hiring at the time but what’s that got to do with now? If Omar was still GM i don’t think Manuel would still be manager – he would have hired somebody else to be with the current team now.
Aderson’s guy Art Howe did a lousy job when he was here too so that comparison means nothing
You’re 2nd guessing the Putz move. I can say the same thing about Chris Young. If Chris Young and Ike Davis were both healthy last year the team could have been playing relevant baseball now and the team you see today would not be the team you would have been seeing now if those 2 did not get hurt.
Are you sure this is not t agee resurrected?
No one argues that Minaya is a fine talent evaluator, and he excelled in developing the farm system. The only problem is that he was so good, he was promoted into a position he couldn’t handle. It’s called the Peter Principle-an employee will rise until he reaches his level of incompetence.
Once again the mouth that roars that he knows nothing tries to tell us otherwise. By the way jessup how’s Davis doing in Buffalo where you demanded he go?????
@Bayonne: Dickey may not have the same thought process as you. Did you catch his interview tonight. He refrences God allowing Dickey to give up a record 6 homeruns in one game and now the two one hitters. The interviewer skips right over this. Dickey is special,..he even has this group unified in support of him.
“I like it here and I want to be here. I feel like the team is moving in the right direction, and I want to be a part of the solution. Now it’s up to them. If I’m in their plans, [a contract extension] is one way to make it known. … I made the comment before, when I signed my contract, that it was my hope to be the best bargain around. It looks like it’s kind of come true the last couple of years.”
-R.A. Dickey on getting his option exercised and getting an extension, May 24, 2012
Yesssss…..I do like the way you think.
This was in response to Even Flow’s refrencing Wilhelm.
Nobody can tough Dickey right now. I agree that he is the best. I cant recall a stretch of dominance like this by a Met pitcher since Gooden and Cone.
I’ve seen those thoughts expressed by a few fans tonight. I agree with you on this. What is more amazing is that it’s being done by a knuckleball pitcher.
R.A.Dickeyulous!!!
If you still haven’t cleared your schedule for Dickey’s next start what are you waiting for? R.A. is must see TV.
Back to back complete game 1 hitters are you kidding?
If you happened to listen to Howie Rose he had the phrase of the night regarding Dickey. He said “The Brothers Grimm & Hans Cristian Anderson have nothing on this (R.A. Dickey) story!”
On the TV side Gary Cohen had the phrase of the night regarding Ike Davis he said “It’s official Ike Davis is back.” after Ike hit a Grand Slam to put the Mets up 4-0.
If Gary is right and Ike Davis is indeed back give the Mets GM Alderson the manager Terry Collins the hitting instructor Dave Hudgens and everyone that stood by Ike as he fought and continues to fight his way back credit for making the “bold move” in keeping him here. Then get out of his way and say watch out N.L. Pitching.
Great season thus far. So many good stories with these Mets. What a ride so far.
Santana on the hill 2morrow.
LGM!!!
what do u think ra could get? 15M a year for 3 years?
how much do you think ra would get on the market? 15M a year for 3?
BMF-did you read R “K’ Dickey’s book..he is thrilled to be a part of the met family and i bet alot of his money and the fame will be dedicated to his charities
I haven’t amazin and you know he def will dedicate the rest of his life to giving back and I also think that will be included in his decision making. If this continues you know he will want the best deal that he can get for him and his family because he’s no spring chicken and his next contract could be his last.
what are the terms of his deal? 2 years at 5M no option?
What a gem by Dickey! I’m thinking he’s going to pitch a no-hitter before this season is done. I feel it in my veins. Imagine that, two no-hitters in one year after we zero in 50? It could happen just wait and see. Oh and before I sign off, THANKS OMAR!
What makes me laugh is that you actually think it’s a dig on people that you give Minaya all the credit with RA Dickey.
Omar Minaya signed him to a minor league deal. Dickey was cut from spring training because at that moment he didn’t have what he has today. Dickey was among the first rounds of cuts actually…
Dickey 2012 is NOT the Dickey that Omar or any GMs missed out on in December 2009. He’s LEARNED to pitch the way he has through the years. You can’t give credit to Minaya for finding talent that didn’t exist when he found it. Dickey is the one who found it.
That’d be like somebody thanking Sandy Alderson because Adam Loewen suddenly becomes a 30+ HR guy.
There’s 1 person who needs thanks and it’s RA Dickey. He’s one of the rarest cases of found talent you’ll ever hear in today’s sport.
Was it a good move signing Dickey to a minor league deal? Obviously. Nobody can dispute that.
But are you thanking Minaya for hitting the lottery? Yes… yes you are.
OMG you are such a biased SHILL. Is Baxter now the guy that Alderson signed last year? Is Hairston the guy that Alderson signed 2 years ago? Is Dickey now the guy that OMar signed a few years ago? What if Baxter goes on to have a good 3 or 4 year run as a sub for the Mets do you thank Alderson or has he “found it”
If Brandon Nimmo becomes an All Star 7 years from now is he the same guy drafted under Alderson? Or if Nimmo becomes a success it’s because “he found it? Or is it different because he was a kid?
Has Hairston “found it”?
You’re pathetic. You just don’t want to give Minaya credit. It’s ALWAYS Omar vs Sandy with you as much as anyone.
All the time you just to do a little Fred Astaire move with your words dancing around it all the time instead of just saying it.
Sure, Dickey was Omar’s best move.
And about his ONLY excellent, shrewd, and cost-effective one.
Imagine what Alderson could have done without Bay’s salary—another reliever, a backup catcher, and in-season salary flexibility as well.
Omar was the blind squirrel who found his nut in Dickey.
But the two hundred million-plus he blew on Pedro, KRod, Bay, Putz, Ollie, and Castillo–while winning one postseason berth–will always make him a horrific disaster as GM.
Well you can talk about shrewd and cost effective and I will talk about 3 years of exciting baseball with 3 postseason runs and 1 post season appearance. You’re second guessing Bay’s performance because nobody including YOU thought it would turn this bad.
So you’re a second guesser.
I and many other people liked the trade for Putz at the time and if he was here now he’d be an excellent addition to the bullpen. Again you’re only second guessing
Is this t agee with a new name? Just say Scott Schoenweiss and then i’ll know
LOVED the JJ move at the time–but it was Omar’s job to know if he was injured when we got him!
Not Agee, and Schoeneweis was another Omar disaster; thanks for the reminder!
Bay? Like Pedro, KRod, Castillo, and Ollie (and Beltran, but he was a great Met when healthy)—no one else offered them nearly what Omar did.
Of course no one could foresee that the Bay move would be THIS bad; absolutely true. But after his history of signing older players after their last big deal, and how badly so many of those contracts were, Omar should have thought twice about Bay. But yes, the team needed a bat, and he and Holliday were the only ones out there.
And please—2007 and 2008 were not “postseason runs”—2006 was. 2007 and 2008 were terribly disappointing years with huge payrolls and star-studded rosters when we could not even get a WC berth. Those are not postseason runs.
Look you want to praise Alderson? Let me see him get this team into the post season and let’s also see some late season post season runs
Then talk to me.
He has not done that yet. Omar did that in his 2nd year.
Talk to me when we see some success.
Oh and they were post season runs. You’re just thinking about saving money and being cheap because of a book you read that’s all. And then applying it after the fact.
They were post season runs on and Beltran was a very goo signing and the Delgado trade and LoDuca acquisitions were good too. There’s more but u get the point and i’m too busy for this nonsense.
Sure he made plenty of bad moves, we all know that. But he also made a lot of good moves too. Like, stealing Santana from the Twins, signing Dickey, signing Beltran, the Delgado trade…….and has now left the team with a very bright future with young players like Davis, Duda, Nieuwhenhuis, Niese, Gee, and so on and so on.
Sure, you can say that nobody could have predicted how good Dickey would be, but couldn’t you also say that nobody could have predicted how bad Bay and Ollie would be? So, it evens out. And I feel that the impact Dickey has had on this team has helped more than the Perez and Bay moves hurt the team.
You want give Alderson credit for Collins? OK, I think hiring him was a good move for this team too. But you know who was the guy who brought him into this organization? Omar Minaya. So, shouldn’t he get some credit for that? I mean, if Omar never brings Collions here, Alderson doesn’t hire him to be manager.
Excellent points Mr Bayonne. I wonder some people like jessup think that they have to always beat down Minaya? I guess when Alderson is gone and they beleive all the new propoganda about the next regime, they will do the same to Alderson. Sad how easily they are led astray by every pied piper.
Hey Bayonne.
There is a difference between a “good move” or moves that pays off and coming here and bowing down to Omar Minaya for RA Dickey.
You can tell I thought signing Dickey was a good move by Omar because I said “Was it a good move signing Dickey to a minor league deal? Obviously. Nobody can dispute that.”
What I am saying is, Omar Minaya took a shot in the dark as many GMs do with minor league deals for players with absolutely no history.
Omar Minaya likely didn’t sign Dickey because “3 years from now he’ll be a cy young contender.”
Nobody could have known (that’s Omar, Sandy, Ricco, Phillips, anybody) that Dickey would turn into the pitcher he has become. Nobody.
He didn’t even establish himself before the Mets signed him. He was a below average reliever who was not striking people out and was giving up hits left and right.
That’s what he was. That’s what Omar took a chance on.
To praise Omar Minaya for the signing of Dickey is flat out praising somebody for picking the right lottery numbers in Powerball. As though they “meant to do it.”
Did somebody have to sign him and it turned out to be a good move? Yes. But did he “find” the pitcher we see today? No. RA Dickey found that pitcher. Because when he was signed he was NOT this pitcher.
It’s not as lucky as your making it sound. Dickey was pitching in the majors two years before and did show FLASHES where he looked pretty good. Omar saw that he had potential(when no one else did), and signed him to a minor league contract. Not giving him credit for that is unfair.
Also, we know from reading Dickey’s book that Omar tried to sign him in the 08 and 09 offseasons. He obviously must have saw something in him and liked him, or else he wouldn’t have tried to sign him THREE years in a row.
In his book he said that the two years before 2010 the Mets were trying to sign him. So Omar obviously saw something in him or else he wouldn’t have tried to sign him three years in a row.
Hi Jessep,
But keep in mind that Omar signed R.A. to a minor league contract when no other team was showing interest in him. He and his people saw something in R.A. to think he might be of help to the club. And even though he was cut in spring training, Omar didn’t release him, either.
Of course when our starters were falling to injury, R.A. was given what was probably the last opportunity he would ever get to make it back to the majors. Yes, it was R.A. who came through but it was Omar who saw something in him and gave him that opportunity and that’s where (for lack of a better word) the “thanks” has to be.
Jessep, you know my sentiments regarding Sandy Alderson, however, should Chris Young come back with even modest success, the same thanks should go to Sandy’s staff for seeing something in Chris and giving him the same opportunity that Omar did R.A.
Joey D: There is a difference between Young and Dickey
In the major leagues from the 1st season Dickey started using the knuckler primarily in 2006 to the day before he pitched for the Mets, Dickey was 6-10 5.25 68G 180IP 82BB 101K 206H
We’ve SEEN Young be successful. That is why the Mets signed him. So if he stays healthy its a good move. Fine, move on.
I am not saying it wasn’t a good job signing Dickey to a MIL deal. I am saying its not worth praise because Dickey wasn’t the pitcher in December of 2009 that he is today. He turned into the pitcher we see today while with the Mets.
It was a good move that has a TON of luck attached to it. Sometimes it pays to be both lucky and good. I’m not saying Omar did a bad job, I’m saying acting like HE is the one responsible for 2012 RA Dickey is a joke and an excuse to start another “Omar v. Sandy” debate.
Joey & Bayonne:
Here is a perfect example for you.
In 2008, the Pittsburgh Pirates traded away a player who in the 3 years he was a starter for them averaged 14 HR a season in 482 plate appearances on average. This player was 27 years old when he was traded.
In July of 2004, that same player was traded to the Pirates from the NY Mets.
Now in 2008, JP Ricciardi who is OFTEN pinpointed by people like Bayonne acquired that player from Pittsburgh.
In the two years that player was with Toronto with Ricciardi he had 16 HR in 465 plate appearances.
Since Ricciardi left JOSE BAUTISTA has hit 97 HR from 2010-2011 and has 20 HR in 2012, on a 40+ pace again.
I’m not going to sit here and say JP knew Bautista would be this hitter. However, it seems like you are? So wouldn’t that mean you are praising JP Ricciardi for being a great scout?
Hi Jessep,
But also note that Young has sustained mutliple and serious arm injuries over the past four years during what would be his peak seasons so he cannot rest on his laurels from his past. He’s not the same pitcher. Now, if Chris comes through even modestly I will give credit to the Alderson people for giving him a chance when they didn’t have to. Thus that’s why the same credit has to go to the Minya people when it came to R.A.
These were no risk moves by both front offices. And nobody is insinuting that Omar saw a possible Cy Young award winner when he signed R.A. to that minor league contract. But there is nothing wrong with acknowledging both G.M.s for giving either player a shot when others wouldn’t and it works out. So if Young has modest succcess, I won’t question anybody for saying “thanks” to Sandy, either.
But also remember that with his injured past, Young was already slated to be a starter in 2011. Omar was not counting on such an assignment with R.A. as Sandy was with Young whom he was signed to a major league contract last season.
“Omar was not counting on such an assignment with R.A”
Exactly.
That’s why I don’t “thank” him for the move. Or come here and act like it was some flash of brilliance to sign Dickey.
Again, read the words I’m typing. It was a good move. But was it more luck than good? Absolutely.
There’s nothing wrong with being lucky. As I describe, JP Ricciardi got lucky (well unlucky since he was fired before he got to see it) with Bautista… it was a good move, but did Ricciardi acquire Bautista because he’d become the best power hitter in the sport for the last 3 years? Most likely not.
Did Omar sign Dickey because he’d become a dominant pitcher and potential cy young pitcher? Most likely not.
Praising luck and throwing it in people’s faces is just silly. It’s just looking for a fight.
Funny but I have to ask if he is not responsible for the Success of Dickey how the hell can you make him responsible for signings like Bay and Castillo who before they were signed had that track record you seem to think Dickey didn’t have?
You seem to have a very particular knife blade that always seem to cut in Sandy’s favor and never cuts in Omars favor!
…..But you also have to understand luck works both ways. You can say the Perez and Bay contacts had more do with bad luck than Omar being a bad GM. Look at their numbers before they signed their contracts nobody could have know that their careers would have fell apart the way they did.
So, if you don’t want to praise him for signing a guy that has performed better than expected, then you can’t kill him for signing someone who played worse than expected(which many fans have done).
The TALENT of Jason Bay wasn’t the bad move. The CONTRACT was. I actually LIKED Luis Castillo but was he worth that CONTRACT? No.
See you’re blurring the lines between the talent of the player and the team’s commitment to them.
RA dickey had absolutely no history and they took a shot in the dark on him. Dickey has become the rarest of baseball stories.
Jason Bay and Castillo were failed contracts. I absolutely whole heartily think the Mets were UNLUCKY with the talent drop off for Jason Bay.
That doesn’t mean bidding against yourself was a good idea.
If you ask me Bay or Holliday’s deal, I still take Bay’s. I don’t blame Omar for Jason Bay.
Luis Castillo wasn’t much different of a player after 2007, he was given a deal he didn’t deserve when there were other options out there. Again, I liked Castillo. But he didn’t suddenly become a singles hitter. He was already a slowing down aging player who couldn’t hit anything but dribbling hits through the hole.
There’s a big difference between Bay and Castillo’s deal. Bay was unlucky. Castillo was a poor effort.
How the hell did you ever manage to get and stay married with such aversion to and issues with COMMITMENT?
It’s hardly the first time the NY Mets have decided to go and buy a RFer with a power resume to help hold them until something young and long term develops!
Kevin McReynolds and George Foster immediatly come to mind!
If Bay was hitting the way his BASEBALL CARD said he should then you would not have any case to make here!
The contract wouldn’t be a bad one and no one would be able to pin anything on Omar for the numbers or the duration!
What is the lesson to take from this?
Don’t use the backs of BASEBALL CARDS to evaluate who you bring onto your team!
First, I’m not sure what my marriage has to do with Jason Bay so lets stick to the Mets rather than my personal life?
Second, are you not reading what I type and just translating it into your own agenda? I think signing Bay’s talent was a good move. I think the Mets got extremely unlucky with him. I don’t think anybody could have known he’d have this drop off. Nobody.
So I’m not sure why you are freaking out trying to prove a point and ignoring what I actually say? The Mets flaw with the Bay negotiation was there didn’t appear to be any competition for him. Just like KRod, just like Castillo.
Dude you obviously have commitment issues….
As evidenced by your aversion to any deal longer than 4 years and how much your willing to invest into those commitments….
“I think the Mets got extremely unlucky with him”
Yes but then said this as well….
“The TALENT of Jason Bay wasn’t the bad move. The CONTRACT was.”
hence the statements about commitments and you taking Omar to task for being UNLUCKY!
So the original statement I made remains….
“If Bay was hitting the way his BASEBALL CARD said he should then you would not have any case to make here!
The contract wouldn’t be a bad one and no one would be able to pin anything on Omar for the numbers or the duration!”
He got the contract based on his numbers and the only problem is what he got is that he didn’t have the numbers! If he did then no one would blame Omar for that contract!
Again, stop reading what you want to read. Quit filling in blanks.
The contract of Bay’s was bad because they bid against themselves. Not because of the money. Not because of the years. Because they created a market themselves.
Which is exactly what they did with KRod, excatly what they did with Castillo.
They made desperate moves and through desperation they hurt themselves.
I said I would still take Bay’s contract over Matt Holliday’s.
Oh please, your one of those who thinks ANY bid is a bid against yourself!
The only way to not bid against yourself according to you is never make a bid and let someone else sign him!
How well did that not bid against yourself work with Reyes?
They gave him what he was willing to accept to sign, nothing more nothing less!
And that number was based on what his baseball card said!
I have to ask though….
No one else made an offer to Francisco or Rauch…Did we bid against ourselves there too?
This notion of yours about bidding against ourselves is truly one of the more rediculous statements you have ever made!
“No one else made an offer to Francisco or Rauch…Did we bid against ourselves there too?”
Yes, yes they did. But the offers didn’t hamstring the future of the franchise.
Signing Rauch to a 1 year deal is not the same as making Francisco Rodriguez the 2nd highest paid player on your team and clogging up your payroll. It’s not the same as offering an aging singles hitting 2B to a 4 year deal.
Stop trying to make every deal equal just because they received contracts.
Jon Rauch isn’t holding the Mets back from anything in 2014 or 2015.
“Yes, yes they did. But the offers didn’t hamstring the future of the franchise. ”
No just hamstrung the present apparently!
Point is made though….
Your idea of it being bad to bid against yourself only applies to guys who have a good MLB track record and as long as it’s bidding against yourself on a retread your fine with it!
As I said…COMMITMENT ISSUES are the keys to your mindset….
Not the bidding or who made the first one or even if they bid against themselves!
Bidding against yourself is only a problem for you because of the length of the contract not the bidding proccess!
And when Wright demands a 7-8 year deal you will be against signing him due to some lame excuse like bidding against ourselves!
When we all will know it’s your commitment issues that is scaring you not the amount of money he would get paid!
Hi Jessep,
W all agree with you that the signing of R.A. Dickey was a minor move by Omar and that the fanatastic success R.A. has had was never expected by anyone in the organization
But having such a strong reaction to one simply saying “thanks” to Omar reminds me of all the accusations I have been accused of having an anti-Alderson agenda cloud my objectivity,
As said, if Young works out at all, I will extend the same thanks to Sandy as was done for Omar.
But keep in mind – when Omar signed R.A., it was for a minor league contract with no real expectations. Sandy first signed Chris to a major league contract and expected him to be the fourth starter. Though I thought it was a gamble worth taking, I didn’t think it should go as far as to hand him the starting assignment instead of having him earn it. Having suffered three years (now four) of serious arm injury during what would be considered his peak years, at 32 we no longer knew if he had the physical capability to sustain himself (which he obviously didn’t) or even be anything close to being the same pitcher he was a before those injuries took its toll.
So yes, I would agree there is a difference. R.A. had to earn his way back into the majors and Omar was not going to commit a rotation slot to him. Sandy, on the other hand, did – twice. If anything, Sandy’s people took much more of a gamble than others because they counted on him for the rotation which I think was bad baseball thinking.
I still do. I don’t think we should look for bargain basement reclamation projects if we want to be serious about improving ourselves as a team. However, if this works out (and so far it seems it might be this season) I will be among those “thanking” Sandy and his people for sticking with Young.
Hi Jessep,
We all agree with you that the signing of R.A. Dickey was a minor move by Omar and that the fanatastic success R.A. has had was never expected by anyone in the organization
But having such a strong reaction to one simply saying “thanks” to Omar reminds me of all the accusations I have been accused of having an anti-Alderson agenda cloud my objectivity,
As said, if Young works out at all, I will extend the same thanks to Sandy as was done for Omar.
But keep in mind – when Omar signed R.A., it was for a minor league contract with no real expectations. Sandy first signed Chris to a major league contract and expected him to be the fourth starter. Though I thought it was a gamble worth taking, I didn’t think it should go as far as to hand him the starting assignment instead of having him earn it. Having suffered three years (now four) of serious arm injury during what would be considered his peak years, at 32 we no longer knew if he had the physical capability to sustain himself (which he obviously didn’t) or even be anything close to being the same pitcher he was a before those injuries took its toll.
So yes, I would agree there is a difference. R.A. had to earn his way back into the majors and Omar was not going to commit a rotation slot to him. Sandy, on the other hand, did – twice. If anything, Sandy’s people took much more of a gamble than others because they counted on him for the rotation which I think was bad baseball thinking.
I still do. I don’t think we should look for bargain basement reclamation projects if we want to be serious about improving ourselves as a team. However, if this works out (and so far it seems it might be this season) I will be among those “thanking” Sandy and his people for sticking with Young.
Joe D: Lets not pretend that a comment from Met Maniac about Omar signing Dickey was meant solely as a “phew we lucked out” and not a “hey lets start another Sandy v. Omar fight!”
I think many of us have been here long enough to know that it was an attempt to once again start an Omar flame fest.
^ was meant for JoeY D
Hi Jessep,
Well, that’s an issue I have no knowledge about and would rather not comment on.
Joe “Y”
and lets not pretend since we have all been here long enough to know that the entire Sandy vs Omar subject was started by the Sandy guys who used Bay, Perez and castillo (as if those were the only guys Omar Hired) to justify Sandy’s as good signings despite the fact not a single one is a major contributor to the team, Only 2 of 8 or 9 has actually had a decent contribution and never as anything more than a ROLE player!
We didn’t start the Sandy vs Omar conversations we merely responded to your use of maligning Omar as doing everything very badly (including the build of our Minor Leagues) as compared to Sandy who has not made a bad move yet as far as your concerned by signing nothing but role players found at KMart!
You started the comparison and now that you seemingly lost the Minor League Omar destroyed myth to use in your comparisons all of a sudeen the conversation is not worth having anymore! And anyone who starts it or makes comparisons of Omar vs Sandy are being unfair and bad where before they were smart and savy!
Please your fooling no one here!
Wow, that was probably Omars best aquisition as Met GM. How do you not give Omar the credit for Dickey? Was Omar supposed to coach Dickey too?
“Throwing a knuckleball for a strike is like throwing a butterfly with hiccups across the street into your neighbors mailbox.”
Willie Stargell
Over Dickey’s last 7 starts he has allowed 6/BB, 71/SO over 54.2/IP.
This from a Knuckleball pitcher. “AMAZIN”
WOW!!!! That stat is SICK!!!
Thank you, Ike Davis.
What more can be said about RA Dickey? Simply amazin!
The time to start negotiations for a contract extension is now. RA has already gone on record that he’s open to discussing it now. He’s just waiting on the Mets.
Nobody licks our Dickey
Popular jersey worn by Green Bay fans in honor of Quarterback Lynn Dickey circa 1983
what will the odds be on sunday nite…ra vs cc
R “K” Dickey…back page tmrw
My MLB.TV feed was screwed up all night. I’m so mad that I couldn’t watch this game in it’s entirety. For the money they charge a month the least you could expect is a good stream. I have a man crush on Dickey. This guy is one bad-ass mofo on the mound!!! He’s all business!
Does anybody know what the record is for a pitcher to throw 1 hitters in a season? Also do you think the Mets could after 50 season end up with at least 2 No hitter in the same season?
I’ve been to roughly 30 games at CitiField since it opened. Tonight was the most fun I’ve had there. R.A. Dickey is magical. He embodies so much of what it means to be a Met fan. He’s the ultimate underdog, a guy that nobody ever believed in, and seems to be a humble, friendly human being.
It was electric at CitiField tonight. I haven’t felt electricity there before tonight. Granted, I’m sure it was PLENTY electric for Johan’s no-hitter a few weeks ago, but I wasn’t there for that. Tonight, all I saw was a great crowd for a Monday night, fans actually talking to each other, high-fiving each other, talking baseball, and being Met fans in the most positive way possible. This fan base has lacked positivity for far too long, and to see it generated by a guy like this is really something special.
R.A. Dickey is a folk hero in the making. Enjoy him. He is the quintessential Met right now. If the front office is smart, they’ll extend him. You can’t buy this kind of connection with fans. If you’re a Met fan, especially a long time one, you have to know that it isn’t about championships with this team. It never has been. It’s about MOMENTS. It’s about embracing guys like this who come out of nowhere and light up New York for brief flashes of brilliance. Let the Yankees have their robotic, mercenary free agents (many of whom, like A-Roid, they hate anyway). We’re Met fans. Our best years were built on the backs of misfits and outcasts. Misfits and outcasts…like R.A. Dickey.
My brother got turned off to sports with the outrageous contracts but tonight I urged him to watch R.A., explaining how he might be seeing the best knuckleballer of all time. He asked “better than Wilheim?” and I said yes – he can actual control the ball to be in the strike zone and is now on a stretch of strikeouts to walks and hits that has been nearly unmatched in baseball history.
Then told him of R.A. the man, who isn’t like most of the other ball players he got fed up with, that R.A. spent most of his career in the minors, developed a knuckleball about five or six years ago when he was all but washed up, considers himself fortunate to be where he is, appreciates his new found success, climbed Kilimanjaro to raise awareness of hunger (despite putting his contract in jeopardy) , does so much charitable work, etc. You see, I had to sell my brother that this guy is a real human being.
He watched a little bit, but stopped when I had called him back. Don’t know how much more he watched but told him that Ralph Kiner said Dickey has the fastest knuckler he ever saw. I hope he kept his word and put the game back on.
R.A. now holds my attention like no other since Sandy Koufax – a complete opposite as far as pitching repertoire goes. The way he is going, one never knows if he might pitch a no-hitter. Even after giving up the one hit, as a fan I was rooting hard for the back to back one hitters.
And how about Ike getting his swing back? Even his outs are hard hit liners. His grand slam was not a cheap home run, it was hit deep to the opposite field. On a side note, I believe it might have been caught in the old dimensions since it hit the middle rows going down on a steep trajectory. Outfielder might have needed to leap to catch it against the wall but it might have been an out. And even if not, with Ike’s speed it would have been a double in the old park instead of a grand slam so deserved.
Now, if Santana returns to form, it will make the three game sweep by Cincy seem like a thing of the past.
best knuckleballer of all time”
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????
Apparently, Alex, you missed Phile Niekro’s (The greatest KBer) comments about Dickey in the Sunday Times. Check it out.
Of course, greatest is hyperbole, but right now, he’s about as good a knuckleballer as can possibly be.
Russell, GOAT… That’s what the poster said… Greatest of all time??? Based on what exactly???
Actually, what Dickie says in the article is extraordinary, too. He says he hasn’t mastered the KB, but that he is always working on it, always talk to the great KBers of yesteryear. Very Zen-like qualities to this guy. Obvious that even he thinks he can pitch a better KB. Some story, eh?
Well obviously he is experimenting with it and having a lot of success too.
It’s not a pitch that Pitching coaches can teach and most pitchers heve never thought could be controlled before.
Dickey seems to be showing that it can be controlled.
And he is showing proof positive that how many pitches you know is not as important as where you throw them!
That has really been the key to Dickey’s success.
Changing speeds, Inside outside, rising sinking…
1 Pitch immediatly turns into about 20 when you mix and match speeds and location to it!
Well Alex I tend to agree with Joey in saying that Dickey could be the best Knuckleballer of all time…Hell I even suggested the Hall is a possibility if he keeps up doing what he is doing!
Not just based on his recent stretch either…
He is doing what was thought IMPOSSIBLE to do…Locating a pitch whose effectiveness was totally based on it’s unpredictability!
Isn’t locating a pitch really about predicting where a pitch will go? Isn’t predicting the unpredictable remarkable?
Add to his changing of speeds and throwing a fastball in there 2-3 times a game he is doing what no other knuckleball pitcher has ever done. Can he do it all season?
Well that will determine if he gets the Cy Young this year and the Hall if he can do it for more than just this season….
They mentioned on the broadcast last night that there have been other 20 game winners who threw the knuckleball. But those same guy also had 10-15 losses to go along with those 20 Wins.
It’s one of those pitches that because of it’s unpredictable nature can just as easily get you pounded on as quickly as it can confuse a batter!
The difference is Dickey seems to have more control over the ball and it’s location than any other knuckleball pitcher in history!
That is pretty much all Joey said here and if he can do it for more than a year because he finally figured out something no one else to date has figured out about throwing and locating the knuckleball, and keep getting guys out then my Hall prediction will not be so rediculous either.
But Joey saying he is the best knuckler ever is not really saying too much or stretching very far….
There are only about 4 or 5 guys in baseball history who were ever any good throwing it and two of them were named Niekro!
Dickey is the last guy left in the league who throws it and he seems to have found something about throwing it that none of his predecessors figured out….
How to predict and locate a pitch that is unpredictable and supposedly has a mind of it’s own!
Along with his great success this year with that KB – changing speeds, high Ks, low walks – if I’m not mistaken he doesn’t have a wild pitch credit to him yet either this season and not sure he’s got a stolen base either. If there are any SBs it’s probably a low number. Even though Dickey obviously throws a slow ball to the plate as compared to a conventional pitcher, he doesn’t allow many base runners and he’s got one of the best pick offs moves for a right hander in the game today.
All around, everything is working for RA right now.
LOL well it’s kind of hard to steal a base when your not on one already!
He has taken an unpredictable pitch and managed to throw it wherever he wants at different speeds making it even more unpredictable to a batter!
It might be easy to predict where a 80 MPH Knukleball will go….
But when you don’t know if it’s coming at 80 or 65 there is no way to sit on it.
Add to that his ability to throw it inside and out, Break Left or Right….
And that single pitch becomes about 15-20 different pitches and even if you figure them all out as a batter he will just throw a fastball right by you!
And it will look like a 98 MPH fastball when what you were expecting is a 68 MPH knuckleball!
He’s added variation to a pitch that is for the most part unpredictable.
Which makes it almost impossible for a batter to get a bead on!
Was a great game to witness in person
Need a Dickey jersey lol
Hi Jersey,
I actually did surf the web afterwards to see what might be available – including upcoming promotional days at Citi Field. The jerseys weren’t lower than $99 and after seeing all the Met merchandise suddenly popping up regarding Santana’s no hitter, I expect the same to slowly creep in as far as R.A. goes. At least a bobble head better than the build a doll toy that’s currently around and looks the same for every player to have one.
FYI Joey, my son went to the game tonight and paid $5.75 for the ticket.
Smart marketing by the Mets. Dickey will draw like Seaver used to draw. Empty seats are a Buzz Kill. Most of us watch the Mets from our homes. Fans in the stadium makes for better Television. We need to start sell out games. When was the last sell out?
Dickey will draw like Seaver used to draw”
Most asinine comment in MMO…. People, have you guys EVER watch baseball?? Or this is your first time??
Oh give yourself more credit, not knowing Koosman was a lefty is up there too.
LOL… Really??
Alex68 Dwight GOODEN???? i love kooz don’t get me wrong, but dwight gooden should be the choice no??
jessep June 18, 2012 at 11:59 am
Alex, odds are Koosman got on the team over Dwight Gooden because Koosman was voted top Lefty Starter
Ok – maybe in the top 10 of assine comments
Have a good day!
Ok, i thought it was the 2 best starters… that is why i thought gooden was robbed! how was that asinine??? Idiotic comments from you and others like that poster said about dickey being the best knuckleballer of all time for having a good 8 games stretch.. I mean, come on, when did the poster started watching baseball?
I know being excited or even litle overzealous about the team you root for is awful, how dare they be hopeful.
Lighten up Francis
????? What?? Moving on~!
Alex your comment is quit foolish. Yes “Seaver Used to draw.” Shea Stadium would often sell out when he pitched. The fan energy in the stadium was increadable. At one point in his career Seaver had an attendance clause in his contract. In the pre Stub Hub days fans would travel Flushing hoping to Scalp tickets. I too stood on the #7 subway platform watching the game because Seaver sold Shea out.
Dickey is making history. Two more 1 hitters and he matches Seaver’s career total with the Mets. Alex stop spewing and enjoy a great moment in baseball.
2 years ago, my buddy (a Yankee fan) thought it would be hilarious to get me a “Dickey” shirt for my birthday (he had gotten me a “Putz” shirt the year before). Well, Putz was a bum, but I got the last laugh with Dickey. I wear that shirt with pride.
This just in….Alderson has decided he will not be sending any more pitchers to play in Winter league. Instead he will march them up and down Kilimonjaro as it has done so much for RA Dickey!!
Just a quick comment on what RA will get….
Dickey said before the previous negotiation that he intended to be the best bargain in baseball and you have to say he most ceretainly is that!
The fact he is pitching like a 25 Mil per ACE does not mean he is going to demand that type of money to extend.
But given the fact a guy like Pelfrey was making 5 Mil in arbitration you have to assume a guy like Dickey will want 8-10 Mil from us and chances are likely a 3 or 4 year (option, no option) to be sure his retirement and post baseball life is set up well.
He will likely get offerred much more if he tests the market but probably for fewer years!
I am thinking Sandy is at least smart enough to know that if he doesn’t resign Dickey no matter what the number is he will get run out of town because at this point Dickey is the Met people are going to see!
I would not even be surprised to see them start selling out the games he pitches in.
We drew 29K last night ON A MONDAY in a season where we have averaged between 26-27K per game and the only times we have drawn more than that was the season opening series, Father’s day which is always one of the biggest draws every year, and other games where Dickey has pitched!
Off Topic:I’m going to put this here since this post seems to have run it’s course from what it started out to be.
BenBadler (Newspaper / Magazine) Freddy Galvis suspended 50 games for the anabolic steroid Clostebol.
http://twitter.com/BenBadler/statuses/215190091482677249
What a dummy.
I know he was on the DL for some pretty serious back issue with some speculating might cost him the rest of this year. Wonder if he started taking that to somehow heal faster or was taking it before?
LOL oh this is just rich!
Holy Crap! So Kevin Burkhardt spoke to Omar Minaya today and asked him why did you sign R.A. Dickey?.
Minaya says he has always loved and followed Dickey for his entire career going back to when he was with the Rangers.
I almost signed him before he went to Seattle and Minnesota. Omar said he always thought Dickey was special and had a lot of guts.
When we signed him for the Mets and he got shelled in that first spring training start, he still wanted him to stay on and convinced him to bolster the Triple-A rotation and keep working.
Omar also said, to be honest I also thought Dickey was so smart and likable that I thought he would be a coach for us one day. I’ve been a Dickey fan from day one.
So it wasn’t a lucky lottery pick as some suggested. Nice job Omar. Thanks Omar.
Hi Maniac,
I was just as dumbfounded by that interview as you were. All of us were wrong underestimating Omar on this one. He always saw something in R.A. even before he developed his knuckler. And as we see, it went beyond talent but with him assessing Dickey as a smart and gutsy individual.
What Omar saw in R.A. were characteristics that could not be measured via computer analysis but only through traditional baseball knowledge. Same held true with a washed up Fernando Tatis who did a fine job when nobody else wanted him (three times released and re-signed by the Mets). These might be the only two “under valued” players overlooked by others clubs that Omar ever signed which yielded really good results for more than a month or so but we haven’t seen any player come close to them in performance despite the many low risk signings made over the past two winters and that includes Chris Capuano who pitched to an ERA more than 5.00 the last two-thirds of the season and hardly ever made it through the sixth inning.
Perfect. Thank you.
“I almost signed him before he went to Seattle and Minnesota”
So he says he wanted RA Dickey before November 2007. RA Dickey barely had his knuckler even working by then.
So I’m loving the fact Omar says he liked Dickey back then because it PROVES he didn’t sign him because he knew he’d be this 2012 version. He wanted him because he liked him.
RA Dickey wasn’t half the pitcher in 2007 that he is today.
I’m not sure how you think that proves he didn’t get lucky with RA?
And again I don’t know how to make this more clear to you.
It was a good move. Any minor league deal you sign that turns into a regular quality player is a good move.
But they are shots in the dark. Getting it right doesn’t make Sandy Alderson a genius and it doesn’t make Omar a genius.
RA Dickey was not the pitcher he has become in 2012 when Minaya signed him. He throws the most unpredictable pitch in the entire sport and he has had to continue to work on it.
Dickey wasn’t a knuckler talent found by Minaya. Minaya found a guy with a solid work ethic that he liked and Dickey turned himself into the cy young contender we see today.
Again, you claim I am all about guys like Sandy, JP, Depo etc. I’m not sitting here saying JP has some amazing eye for talent solely because he acquired Jose Bautista before he became the power hitter we know today. Are you? Are you going to reply to this and say JP Ricciardi deserves praise for Bautista?
If so, I’d like to see if you can say something positive about him.
Dickey is who deserves thanks for Dickey. Everybody else was just a small piece of the puzzle to buy him time to get to where he is. Nobody knew or could predict how good he’d be.
“I’m not sitting here saying JP has some amazing eye for talent solely because he acquired Jose Bautista”
And nobody is sitting here saying that Omar has a great eye for talent solely because he acquired Dickey. People say Omar has a great eye for talent not JUST because of Dickey, but because of what he did in his career as a scout and GM. As as scout with Texas, he helped sign or scout guys like Sammy Sosa, Jaun Gonzalez, and Ivan Rodriguez. And with the Mets as assistant GM, guys like Jose Reyes and Nelson Cruz. So, that’s the main reason why Omar has a reputation for having a great eye for talent.
Your right by saying that nobody could have know how good R.A would be, but you have to give credit to the guy that signed him for giving him a chance when nobody else wanted to.
Maniac left out that he wanted to sign him after 07 after seeing how good he did in the minors that year for the Brewers(he was 13-6 with a 3.72 ERA). And was impressed how he pitched against the Mets with the Mariners the following year – So it was not a total shot in the dark. Omar saw that he had potential, and he liked him, so he should absolutely get credit for bringing him here.
Vinny, where did you get your info about Omar scouting or signing Juan Gonzalez and Pudge Rodriguez? Omar signed Sammy Sosa he didn’t just help signed him he followed him around DR. Gonzalez and Pudge were signed by somebody else. Omar coached Gonzalez in the GCL for 3 years but he didn’t scout or sign either of those 2. Same with Reyes and Nelson Cruz. Juan Mercado and Eddy Toledo scouted and signed Reyes and Mercado is the one that signed Nelson Cruz. The only thing Omar did was get the okay from Duquette who originally said no to Reyes when he found out he weighed 130 Lbs and Toledo asked Omar to go straight to Phillips to get the Okay because the Cubs were hot on Reyes’ tail. If that’s the case why don’t we just give Ismeal Cruz the credit for Familia, Mejia, Tejada, Aderlin Rodriguez, Valdespin, Flores, Urbina, Tapia and Lagares. Ismeal Cruz scouted and signed each one of those guys. How about Marlin McPhail? he scouted Reese Havens, Ike Davis, Matt Harvey, Josh Edgin and last years 2nd rounder Cory Mazzoni. Even DePodesta said Ismael Cruz, Rafael Perez and Rafael landestoy did an amazing job scouting Latin America for the Mets and they are as good as it gets in that regard. Minaya himself said to John heyman they are the ones who deserve they credit. he said it to John Heyman. I have no problem giving him the credit for these guys they were under his regime but he did not scout or sign 4 of those 5 players you mentioned.
You have to realize that more than one guy is involved in the process. With the Rangers he was a scout, and then was the Latin American scouting coordinator and director of professional and international scouting. So, he should get credit for the IFA’s that were signed then because he was involved in the process.
Same thing with Cruz and Reyes, he was involved with the scouting or signing of those players.
Sure the guys who scouted the players for us deserved credit. But they all worked for Minaya, and all those players were signed under his administration.
I fully realize how the scouting of IFA’s work. Just because he was part of the staff doesn’t mean hescouted or signed either of those players. You can give him credit for the guys in the system now sure but he did not scout or sign either Nelson Cruz or Jose Reyes. There are multiple scouts in each Latin American Country so to just say he gets credit for certain players because he was a part of the staff is unfair to the 2 guys who actually did the scouting and signing of those players. Same thing with Pudge and Juan. He had no involvement in the scouting of those 2 players he coached Juan Gone in the GCL. The one guy he did scout and sign was Sammy Sosa. Omar has a good enough resume, he doesn’t need anyone to give him credit for players he didn’t scout to boost his resume as an evaluator. Lets be fair.
You just said yourself that he gave the “ok” to sign Jose Reyes. So how is me saying he was invloved with the signing of Reyes wrong?
And I found this about Cruz:
“The son of two schoolteachers in Monte Cristo, Dominican Republic, Cruz was signed at 18 by the Mets’ international scouting team of Omar Minaya and Eddy Toledo (who also signed Jose Reyes, the Mets’ shortstop).
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/sports/baseball/late-sudden-unsurprising-the-emergence-of-nelson-cruz.html
I’m not the only one saying he was invloved with signing Nelson Cruz.
And when your the director of international scouting for a team you should get credit for the IFA’s that were signed. I have a hard time believing someone in that postion was not invloved with those signigns.
And as for JP? Sure, he should get credit for Bautista.
“But they are shots in the dark. Getting it right doesn’t make Sandy Alderson a genius and it doesn’t make Omar a genius.”
Hi Jessep,
You are 100 percent correct with that and perhaps this gets to the root of the matter, at least for me.
Try and see it for a moment from my perspective. Many of my friends were disgusted with the way Omar had handled the team, especially with the large budget he was given. When Sandy was hired, they were then telling me how great a move this would be, citing Sandy’s eye for talent, how he built those clubs in Oakland by going outside the box, using saber metric analysis and proving that one did not need to spend ridiculous sums of cash to put together a winning team.
When Sandy made his signings back in the winter of 2010 truly felt the Mets were buying on the cheap simply to fill roster spaces because the Wilpons were in serious financial trouble which could result in having to sell the team. Now, I know you and others are aware that I feel Sandy is more astute in financial reorganization and legal matters and relies more on those he has hired to recommend player personnel matters than Omar but keep in mind that at that time I didn’t think so.
So when Sandy made his signings back in the winter of 2010 I sensed the Mets were buying on the cheap simply to fill roster spaces during the time the Wilpons were in serious trouble and could lose ownership. But others contested that we were going to be surprised by the likes of Capuano, Young, Carasco, Boyer, Buccholz, Emus, Polino, etc., citing that with his use of computer analysis Sandy was again spotting undervalued players (in both terms of talent, specific ability that would fit into the team and money) that other clubs did not appreciate. They certainly saw those moves in a much better light than I did.
Well, as we know other than for Byrdak, those other players were utter failures (if Capuano did not receive the seventh best run support in the national league he would not have had anything close to that 12-13 record). So then the consensus was that since Sandy didn’t spend much on these players, we didn’t get burned by them in the process. At the same time, the focus shifted on rebuilding for the future instead of putting all our dice on the table to win now. I contested then (as I do now) that teams could do both.
Their lip-flops turned me off to the current front office. Had they not insisted that the moves made that winter were sound because Sandy and his people had made them I might not feel so strongly about the front office that I do today. I truly believe Sandy and his people of course with the Wilpons want very much to win. To think otherwise would be foolish. However, I also believe the same holds true for Billy Beane, Sandy’s protege with Oakland. Yet, like with Beane on the west coast, the Mets too are operating like a small market team with financial liabilities. Beane is now in his sixth year of rebuilding for the future in Oakland. This is because he almost always has sent most of his young talent packing when they neared eligibility for arbitration.
That’s what I see the Mets doing now. Rebuilding is a smoke screen for not having the money. Now, that is not Sandy’s fault. But I would be less turned off to the front office if some would at least acknowledge that as a factor in their assessments rather than to ignore it. A friend of mine recently wrote to me:
“Joe, it’s not that Sandy won’t EVER spend money, it’s that it has to make
sense. You’ve complained about them not signing Feliciano at $8 million,
not signing Takahashi at $8 million, and trading K-Rod and the $17 million
he would have been due. That’s money that they saved that they now have to
give to players where it makes more sense. Dickey falls into that category.
Look at it as the second phase of the plan. He let guys go and avoided igning guys (which was unpopular) to clear money. He’s done that, and now he’s got a player worthy of an investment.”
What I mentioned to him was that the money saved was not being “cleared” for others but rather was used to reduce the payroll to help offset operating expenses and that for the immediate future it never will. Sandy still projects keeping the payroll under $100 million for at least a few more seasons. That is not “clearing money” as my friend suggested. After next season Wright is going to command a big contract along with R.A. And in another two years Davis, Murphy, Gee and others will begin becoming eligible for arbitration. Even with the kids coming up from the farm system, that doesn’t leave much room for anybody else.
The bottom line is that he still doesn’t acknowledge the real possibility that there might be other reasons for the direction the Mets are heading toward not related to a baseball strategy similar to the situation Beane is being forced to work under in Oakland. So that is where my head is at and hope you can understand why me and others might feel the way that we do, even if we still disagree. Perhaps if those who have faith in Sandy would curb their enthusiasm a bit then those like me could meet them in a middle ground.
Joey D.