17
2012
Mets Release D.J. Carrasco
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Sandy Alderson has only made two multi-year free agent signings as Mets GM. The first of those was reliever D.J. Carrasco, who was finally released after parts of two dismal seasons. Frank Francisco was the other beneficiary of a multi year deal, after being signed to a $12 million, two year deal in the Winter.
Carrasco’s release came soon after he served up a two-run homer to Todd Frazier in a 6-3 loss to the Cincinnati Reds.
On Tuesday, Carrasco started a tempest after he plunked Brewers star Ryan Braun, prompting Terry Collins to remove David Wright from the game in fear of retaliation.
With Carrasco now designated for assignment, the Mets will promote left-handed reliever Robert Carson from Double-A Binghamton.
Carrasco was signed to a two-year, $2.2 million deal during the 2010-11 offseason.
After the game when he was told he had been cut, Carrasco was neither surprised or shook up about it;
“It was pretty self-explanatory,” Carrasco said. “I would have done the same thing if I was the GM.”
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
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with the great track record of this new GM, smart Met fans can only hope he never makes another sign. The blind followers will tell us how it was only a small amount of money, how it doesn’t matter, blah blah blah. And of course they will present their daily whine of how serious observers of his reign only hate him!!!!!! Of course they will continue to ignore the big fact that Alderson hasn’t made one move to improve the team.
‘Alderson hasn’t made one move to improve the team.’
Disagree.
If you don’t think that releasing Perez and Castillo improved the team, not sure what you’re idea of improvement is.
Trading Beltran – who was never going to sign with the Mets – and getting Wheeler was a good move.
Moving KRod and that 17.5 MIL vest option to the Brewers at the deadline was a good move as well.
I won’t argue that some of these signing have been questionable to not working out – but I think your statement is an exaggeration.
Of course it is but unknowingly you have just restarted the classic Beltran Krod debate of 2011-2012. Expect a rebuttal.
And just remember who started it this time TRS!
As for the moves, Prez and castillo didn’t improve a thing, I have seen no replacement acquired by Sandy who have added anything to what was already here.
On Beltran SRT makes an assumption that he would not sign here but that”s hardly true and who knows if Wheeler will ever make it to the MLB at this point?
On K-Rod we have discussed adinfinitum about how they could have bought out the option to remove the 17Mil.
But in general anyone who thinks getting RID of players with no reasonable discussion of what replaced them makes the team better is foolish becuase we could cut the entire roster but it won’t be better unless their replacements play better than them!
If you say I don’t like this meal you brought me for dinner and they take it away you can’t say taking it away made the meal better unless they actually bring you in a new meal that IS better!
On cue… LOL.
Don’t worry, Tr,
No rebuttal from me. I’m already on record (numerous times) LOL.
Since I rarely participated in any of these debates previously, I’ll take one shot at my thoughts here and then leave it at that.
As for the moves, Prez and castillo didn’t improve a thing, I have seen no replacement acquired by Sandy who have added anything to what was already here.
>>>>>> Where is it written that the improvement of releasing Perez and Castillo can only be considered an improvement if replacements were brought in that were better. The subtraction alone made the team better.
Murphy was leading the league in BA I believe before he went down with that injury.
Anyone of Gee/Young/Capuano was certainly better than Castillo.
On Beltran SRT makes an assumption that he would not sign here but that”s hardly true and who knows if Wheeler will ever make it to the MLB at this point?
>>>>Whether Beltran would have signed here or not, whether they were thinking of trying to resign him or not, whether Wheeler makes it or not – it’s simple addition by subtraction. Instead of taking the chance at not re-signing Beltran and/or getting nothing in return, we got a highly touted pitching prospect. That alone is improvement as the more prospects you have, the higher the number they contribute at the ML level.
On K-Rod we have discussed adinfinitum about how they could have bought out the option to remove the 17Mil.
>>>> Now who is making assumptions? Went for the sure thing, which is dumping that 17.5 million dollar vest.
But in general anyone who thinks getting RID of players with no reasonable discussion of what replaced them makes the team better is foolish becuase we could cut the entire roster but it won’t be better unless their replacements play better than them!
>>>> Keeping lousy players that contribute to losing games is better than cutting them when warranted? I guess you’re entitled to your opinion on that. I don’t agree. And no one is talking about cutting an entire roster – that’s just an exaggeration.
If you say I don’t like this meal you brought me for dinner and they take it away you can’t say taking it away made the meal better unless they actually bring you in a new meal that IS better!
>>>> Doesn’t make sense in my book. I’d rather skip a meal if no replacement is available, rather than eat a meal that’s unpalatable to me. But there’s always a replacement meal available, even if I have to make a PB&J sandwich. Might not be gourmet but it will get the job done, which is fill up my stomach. Same with releasing a player. You order a meal you think will be good – you sign a player you think will be good – and it’s/they’re not. There’s always a replacement to be had, even if it’s not what you were going after to begin with.
Anyone of Gee/Young/Capuano was certainly better than Castillo.
Sorry…meant Perez.
Well SRT then al I’m going to say is WHY IS BAY STILL HERE?
For the same reasons Omar didn’t cut Perez and castillo in 2010!
And is skipping a meal a GOOD meal?
No it isn’t a meal at all! THATS the point you missed there!
As for your potential replacements who brought them here?
Only Capuano was credible is he here? NO! So he didn’t improve the team just maybe improved one season and it was a losing one anyway because he didn’t improve a thing about the 2010 team they lost more games didn’t they?
We could go on and on all day on this, Metsie – but I’ve read enough of these debates you’ve participated in to realize our opinions are at opposite ends on these issues, for the most part.
As I don’t think anyone wants to see us hogging this thread for what will be again a debate with no end in sight, let’s just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Fine with me SRT as you know I didn’t bring this up…
Just responded that the excuses being used are all OPINION not fact which is why there is still a debate on it because you can’t PROVE opinion without some basis in fact to back it up.
My main issue is you guys are all looking at the mkoves from a Wilpon perspective not a baseball perspective!
You don’t get anything baseball from having a cheap roster.
Only ones who benefit are the owners!
Since niether you or I are owners I don’t see why some are takling CHEAPER as improvment when the baseball part of the equation says otherwise!
YES! YES! YES!
only thing that matters right now is Robert Carson , nearly all our minor guys improved at the big level or at least get their good moments , schwinden not. But lets hope Robert can give us some good innings. LGM we need the win tonight
So , Sandy’s only good signing has been….. WHO?? Capuano maybe??? this is pathetic. I eally tought that with all the posted articles about sandy’s inteligence and how much of a genius he was at finding value in cheap players etc i really thought we were getting something in some of this players. His signing have beem dreadful to say the least. But of course, his apologist will come and say otherwise or find some sort of way to make him look good by trashing previous GM and comparing what they did…
We all know Omar’s terrible record why would we need to rehash it? Look Sandy has got to start coming through on some of his signings too or it will be lights out for him too. Luckily for Sandy and unlucky for the Mets financial situation they have still not signed anyone that they can’t get out from under. What will be the real test is next off-season I expect they will have enough cash to bring in a couple of guys paid more than 6M a year.
As for the DJ signing, it’s easy to trash now because the guy was awful. Why the heck he was so awful? Hell if I know? Same reason Show crapped his pants when he came to NY? DJ had an ERA under 4 for 3 straight years and then came to the Mets and doubled those. Relievers are certainly a mystery.
Omar’s terrible record?
506 – 466 .520 Win Pct 1 Playoff Three Consecutive years of Playoff contention in the last week of September?
Really if thats Terrible then what do you call
156 – 168 .481 Win Pct No Playoffs not a single September that counted towards Squat!
We are talking about signings but hello Metsie.
OK Signings….perez, Bay and castillo vs…
Buchholz, Carrasco, Harris, Francisco, Paulino, Young, Bonser, Boyer…Need I go on?
Add up all of those signings and add up those three and see which ones you think impacted the team more during that time. Not only did Omar make mistakes with the big signings but he also had plenty of the GMJR, Frank the Cat, Cora, etc.
Money Money Money Money…
Aren’t we here to talk about Baseball not how well off the Wilpon’s finances are?
Is the GM’s job to make a great baseball team or to make a CHEAP team the Wilpons can afford?
From the Wilpon’s standpoint Sandy is doing a great job!
From the baseball standpoint not so good!
All of the problems on this team stem from Sandy signings not anything Omar did!
At least until Bay gets back anyway….
So tell us why hasn’t he cut Bay yet?
If it is such a great thing to cut wasted money?
LOL, you always want to pretend that the financial situations have no impact and that a GM should spend money to make the team better regardless of the current situation of the team or the financial state. That is fantasy world. You can’t spend money you don’t have.
They shouldn’t have an impact TRS…
You don’t get any extra wins or get spotted any runs for having a cheaper team than another guy!
But you guys excuse everything based on whats better for Wilpon noit what is better for the baseball!
This site is for MET fans not Wilpon fans!
It is about BASEBALL not the stability of the Wilpon finances yet every discussion of baseball regarding sandy seems to be from the Wilpon side completly ignoring the baseball because the Wilpon side is much more important to you!
I don’t care how good a shape the Wilpons are in I care about how good the baseball on the field is and this CHEAP CRAP has made what could be a very good season into question and so far has cost us the lead in the division we SHOULD have right now!
But we saved money though and being the best team in the NL east is just a SECONDARY concern isn’t it?
We aren’t here to win the division we are here to see how far a shoestring can take us!
Metsie, again you can’t spend what you don’t have. It wasn’t about the Wilpons pocketing money. They didn’t have the money to spend. Where did you expect them to get the money Metsie? They couldn’t even borrow anymore money. So yes for every team money has to factor into the equation. Even the Yankees.
Also are you saying the team would have been better going out and bringing in an expensive RF, 1B, 2B, and Catcher and sending Duda, Kirk, Davis and Thole packing or back to the minor leagues? Do you think the team would have had a better record? Do you think the team would have a better record with Tejada at 2B and Murphy on the bench with Reyes at SS? Sometimes not spending and allowing your own player the opportunities to play is a decision the GM has to make as well.
What happen to the Metsie that agreed this process would take years and we needed to be patient?
and why didn’t they have it to spend TRS?
Wouldn’t going out and getting some big names solve that problem?
Wouldn’t people hear of the great player that was going to be playing for us and go buy tickets to see it?
And guess what…none of your cheapness solved a thing did it?
They cut 55Mil from a 70 Mil loss (would have been 75 Mil minus the 5 mil they got back from trading K-Rod)
If Attendance stays level (which so far has been the case) will they make money this year?
Do the math!
Yes signing someone to a 15 MKil contract migyht be a risk but if that player sold more tickets then it could have solved the financial issues better than not buying anything but cheap crap did!
Better would have been not spending any money at all if thats what you think and try to fill the holes with what was here until such time as you can afford to spend on something good or decent!
Metsie, where do you get the money to take the risk? LOL. You can’t spend what you don’t have. What would have happen if they spent 15M that they didn’t have and they still stunk? Bankruptcy. LOL.
Attendance! remember they dont’ get paid it all in one lump sum they get paid in increments as the season progresses!
Where do you get the money? From that increase in Attendance!
And if they didn’t or the team stunk still? Bankruptcy.
IF IF IF…
If Sandy was a good GM that wouldn’t happen now would it?
You keep blaming the budget for his woes so take away the budget that limits him and if he fails you know all you need to know about him and his ability to win under ANY budget!
If you fail with a low budget you didn’t accomplish a thing except an even lower budget next year because Crickets get in for free!
How low does the budget and attendance have to go before you spend to solve the problem?
I am Glad you’re starting to see this man for what he is.. small market mentality usually leads to this. You keep acquiring the players who cost the least amount of $ and will take less years and you end up with situations like this one. Now it’s all about scrambling to find someone else. This team has been relative healthy and playing well, it’s his job as a GM to make the team better and he has not done that.. Now it’s also RAUCH imploding. Nothing he did this offseason is paying off so far..
Come on Alex, that’s not true either. Look at Omar’s record his last few years. Full of either guys like Show that were flops, Bay, Perez, Castillo, Cora, but there were also tons of bargain shopping that sometimes worked and sometimes flopped. GMJR, Jacobs, Frank the Cat, Tatis after it was clear he was done, Blanco, trades for Schnieder. The Mets have been doing it this way for way before Sandy. At least the failures of the past couple of years haven’t locked them into that failure and they have been able to admit and move on.
Here’s an interesting tidbit….
In AA’s game thread last night, one of the posters says his adult son is currently at a NY bar/restaurant and Willie Randolph is there. Here’s the exchange between the two:
He just sent me a photo of him and Willie Randolph at some bar in NYC.
I told him to tell Willie that Omar was a douche for firing him. He told him, and Willie laughed and said “Omar was too young to be a GM, and fell in love with the big name players”
Hmm….comment I made here is awaiting moderation – probably flagged a word. Gonna re-post so it might appear twice.
**********************
Here’s an interesting tidbit….
In AA’s game thread last night, one of the posters says his adult son is currently at a NY bar/restaurant and Willie Randolph is there. Here’s the exchange between the two:
He just sent me a photo of him and Willie Randolph at some bar in NYC.
I told him to tell Willie that Omar was a dXouXche for firing him. He told him, and Willie laughed and said “Omar was too young to be a GM, and fell in love with the big name players”
TRS, thing is, sandy iis SUPPOSED to be a guy who finds value in cheap guys, that is what he is known for isn’t he? Yet, most guys he has gotten have flopped big time
it’s not looking good for him or the mets… As much as this players are overachieving they can’t do it all season long without help from the GM..
Wasn’t that what Omar was known for as well Alex? That and spend money on the biggest name you can get then go out and backfill with cheap signings and lightening in the bottle type players. Again, it’s nothing new. The only difference is Sandy prefers to not and out the Bay/Perez type contracts, luckily for him the Mets couldn’t afford them anyway. However, what you keep attributing to Sandy is actually the guy that came after Sandy. Beane. Sandy is considered the grandfather of money-ball only because he started looking for value where others were not. Beane is the one that turned it into more about money due to the lack of funds to spend. So I ask again, what is actually wrong in the theory of looking for value in your secondary signings where other teams are not? Isn’t that what all GM’s should be doing?
I think it’s just like the hitting debate. You guys take the philosophies to the extreme without really understanding what the goal is to start with.
He has found value in cheap guys, your problem is you expect him to find a cy young winner that is cheap
Capuano, Hairston, Cedeno, Byrdak, Harris, Paulino, Beato, Isringhausen…
I’m not suggesting all or any of these guys were amazing. I am suggesting however that they didn’t cost the Mets a lot of money and for the most part, the Mets got their investment back in performance.
Paulino and Harris were awful. There’s a reason why they aren’t playing in the majors anymore.
Well as of May 6th Willie Harris was still playing for the Reds, of course he was 3/35 but the Reds still paid him 800K for the year.
Paulino also played through May 6th and was batting .300 in 30 AB and got 1M for doing it.
Awful? No. Were they all-stars no? But there was VALUE in having them for the price the Mets paid,
I’m not trying to say they were great moves etc. I’m saying people act like finding inexpensive talent means you find a guy off the scrap heap who wins the MVP.
Paulino was signed as a backup catcher, mostly for LHP. He hit .289 against lefties, and also was forced to start against RHP at times as well. For $1.35 million, I’d say his dollar value was fair for performance.
Harris made $800,000 and was signed to be a backup player who ended up starting 44 games and appearing in over 120 games.
What was the Value?
Did they help us win more games?
NO!
Losing more games more cheaply is not value anymore than buying a cheap car that doesn’t run to hold you for a year is better than spending good money on one that does run and for more than one year!
They also didn’t make September meaningful either which is the whole point of going out to buy players!
Any idiot can go out and buy cheap players but if they don’t perform and make your tream better you wasted your time and money!
As for Omar I think we forget about the guys he brought here….
Guy named Dickey, he was cheap how has he worked out?
Turner was cheap too how is he doing?
Name the equivilent signings by Sandy please!
Metsie
“Guy named Dickey, he was cheap how has he worked out? Turner was cheap too how is he doing? Name the equivilent signings by Sandy please!”
Dickey was “found” by Omar after Omar had been here for 4 years. Turner was grabbed off waivers during Omar’s 6th (and final) season.
So I’ll tell you what. In 2-4 years, i’ll gladly answer your question.
Yep and it could be said that Omar was under the same spending restraints the last two years that you have used as an excuse for Sandy!
And he found GOLD while Sandy has found AAAA players at best!
He also found Jason Bay
Oki i’ll play the kiddie game…
He also found:
Santana
Beltran
K-Rod
Wright
Reyes
Murphy
Duda
Davis
Niese
Gee
Valdespin
Need I go on or do you conceed the point in the rehash?
Minaya found Beltran Rodriguez and Santana?
I’m pretty sure everyone who had seen a baseball game in the last 5 years had heard of them prior to them becoming Mets. All he did was open the checkbook.
Yep everyone saw Francisco and Rauch the past few years too which is why they were so cheap!
So were Frankie C and Gary Matthews Jr.
Everyone saw Alou, he got cut from his team and yet, he managed to be expensive for us…huh.
why Carson and not Egbert ? I mean Carson might have future but he is not that good so far … in double A !!! Egbert is playing solid …. in Triple A .
Because he is RH and Byrdak’s arm may fall off at any moment either pitching or warming up in EVERY game.
They must want a second lefty really bad. There are a handful of righties that were better options than Carson
They do want the second lefty really badly. Byrdak has already been in 22 games this year and most likely warmed up another 8 times. Not a good pace for a 38 year old to be at 90-100 games.
By the way, as i said it before the beginning of the year, this team will win games DESPITE alderson’s inability to find talent or sign good players, or make good trades, it’s all about saving money from him.. Don’t see what’s so special about a GM with 7 straight Losing seasons and so far, not one single player on the team who can help or has contributed, supposedly he “fixed” the bullpen but so far, we’ve got the worst bullpen in the NL and the 3rd worst in the majors… Embarrasing…
I have already said he has got to start coming through but how are we not giving any credit to a single guy? How about Torres? Baxter? Neither of those have helped win a single game? Batista hasn’t helped win one single game? Byrdak? Again I am not saying those are sexy names but you also can’t say that none of those guys have helped win a game.
That being said, DJ was a failure and it is quickly looking like FFF will be as well. The mark of the GM is how they respond to their failures. At least Sandy has been decently quick to cut ties with those failures.
Torres? The guy hitting .239 with a .354 OBP at the moment?
Really is that the best or even 2nd best you can do?
Baxter has been doing well as far as BA goes but mostly as a PH. WHY isn’t he playing CF is it because he is not suited to?
Is that better than .295 BA with .407 OBP and 13 HRs?
LOL, you are changing the question. Have either Baxter or Torres helped the team win this season?
Have they won as many as Beltran has for his?
Perspective dude!
Have they won as many as Reyes has for his? Come on. This is ridiculous. Why are we still debating damn Krod and Beltran?
So Untrue! (Note YOU brought up Reyes so when you complain about being bored look at the mirror and slap the guy you see!)
Jose reyes 18 RS 6 RBI 24 Runs Produced
vs
Andre Torres 9 RS 10 RBI 19 Runs Produced
Baxter 7 RS 6 RBI 13 Runs Produced
You werent’6t even close dude!
They have more Combined is about all you can say…
Uh… I thought we were talking about wins? As for your point on me bringing up Reyes, it’s relative because we are still whining about players that aren’t here. You can assume Beltran would have resigned here against all odds. You can assume that Krod would have signed a multiyear deal at a cheaper rate against all odds. You can assume that if Reyes was offered an offer less than the Marlins he would have came back. Yet we can’t assume facing all the evidence in our direction that none of those things would have happen?
It’s time to move on. Comparing Beltran and Krod to what we have now and Reyes to Tejada is about as pointless as you can get.
We are what is the most important thing you can do to help your team win ballgames?
PRODUCE RUNS!
You want to say the guys around Reyes aren’t doing enough feel free you get no argument but the bottomline is they aren’t losing because Reyes is doiing less than baxter or Torres to win games!
He’s actually doing more than either!
Interestingly enough their WAR are all very similar.
Torres: .3
Baxter: .4
Reyes: .4
On a side note, Tejada .9.
That says more about the usefulness of WAR than anything about a player!
Right, lets trash the stat that proves you wrong and build up the stat that barely proves you right. Reyes has not provided any more wins to the Marlins by himself than Baxter or Torres or Tejada or Murphy.
WAR proves NOTHNG even Sabermetricians agree with that statement!
Show a stat that does and isn’t controversial even to the guys who created it!
Do you want to go back to the tired old conversation of how bad WAR is as a Metric I’ll be happy to revisit it but your the one who gets bored re-hashing past arguments not me!
Start off explaining why WAR credits a player more for an RBOE than it does for an actual hit!
Then follow up with Why a HR is less than 4 times the value of a Single?
What did D.J. show to be given a two year contract is the question that SA should be asked, at least with FF he has shown something at times to think it might, might, be a good signing but Carrasco didn’t show anything before he was signed so why was he given $2.2 million?
I would imagine the 143 games and 210 innings pitched of under 4.00 ERA the 3 years prior to the signing.
TR,
But D.J. was also 34 years old at the time of his signng and had pitched 171 innings those prior two seasons (an average 85.5 per season) and thus why wasn’t the cocern about Feliciano being over used not applied to D.J. as well? D.J. was only one year younger than Pedro as well.
Could Feliciano eventually getting two years at $8 million while D.J. got two years at $2.4 been more the reason? Does that imply it was less about performance and more about money? After all, Pedro’s prior two seasons surpassed that of Carasco and he pitched 49 less innings – which means he was was less overused than his replacement.
Things to consider.
Pedro was a LOOGY, big difference. Also Pedro had been in or had warmed up in about 70% of the team’s games. But if you are saying that the fact that DJ was only 2.25M played a part in his signing? Of course it did. Do you think Sandy should have held out for more? The fact is that at a little over 2M it was a very safe signing that didn’t work out.
“Pedro was a LOOGY, big difference. Also Pedro had been in or had warmed up in about 70% of the team’s games.”
Hi TR,
That is an assertion inferring something that might or might not be relevant, For example, it could be asked how many times D.J. warmed up, sat down, warmed up again and maybe wasn’t even used. Can we also claim to know if his arm was as strong as Pedro’s (or vice versa) to take on such work?
It is better to judge the situation on what was known and could be projected. Yes, Pedro appeared in 180 games while D.J. only was called in for 102 those two seasons. But look further into the matter. Pedro faced 522 batters those two seasons while Carasco faced 735 (213 more,106 more per season). A lot more strain goes into pitches thrown in game situations than warmng up.
So If anything, the point about being over-worked could be said about both pitchers and really does not come into the equation. A question to be asked is why would Sandy even offer a one year contract to a reliever he thought would be less effective due to overwork?
Sorry Joey but it can’t. Again the amount of games pitched in is viewed as more stressful for a reliever than innings thrown. Also it was mentioned in the evaluation of Pedro by others how many times he also warmed up. Obviously it would be more than DJ based on amount of games pitched. Either way comparing a successful loogy wanting a ton of money on an arm determined ready to break down to a RH long man spot starter wanting little money after three solid years is kind of pointless IMO. If you want to compare signing Show and not signing Pedro, that seems fair. Or signing Byrdak instead of Pedro, that would be fair as well.
Hi Tr,
We will just disagree on this one…, like many others LOL.
What would be more conclusive is finding some links in which baseball insiders note they were observing a drop in velocity with Feliciano by the end of the 2010 season which was not, at the same time, picked up for Capuano. Or, that the mechanics in Pedro’s pitching delivery could create more wear on the arm than those of Carasco. Either would be valid indications about your point that that work was beginning to show it’s toll on Pedro and not for D.J.
This would also be more substantial than to apply a certain set of principles for Feliciano and to dismiss them for Carasco, considering their ages and the tremendous work loads both had in their own ways over two seasons
I can’t blame Sandy for dumping Carrasco but it is not consistent with how he has handled the bullpen this year. If he is going to DFA Carrasco after just 3 games, why is Manny Acosta still on the roster after 6 weeks of getting shelled? And why is Francisco still closing (although that’s more Terry’s call)? You either have to show patience or consistently pull a quick trigger. The Mets are now eating a million dollars after Carrasco pitched a perfect 9th inning last night, rebounding after allowing the HR.
So whose the brilliant call-up? Double-A lefty Robert Carson, who has never pitched above AA and has never even had success in the Minors, let alone the Majors.This is his first year with a good ERA but his WHIP is still high (1.36).
The Mets had southpaws Chuck James and Justin Hampson pitching well in AAA, both with Major League experience, and both were passed up. They also had 3 dominant righties in Jack Egbert, Fernando Cabrera and Elvin Ramirez. The Mets have gone with one righty the past two years, they did not need another lefty that bad.
I know Carson has good stuff and I hope he proves me wrong, but I would much rather see him in September when the Mets are out of the race than mid-May when they are only 3 games out of first place.
Lastly, the part that bothers me most is that Carrasco’s Mets legacy will be as the guy who hit Ryan Braun and caused the Wright-Collins dispute. DJ is one of the kindest human beings in the game and wouldn’t harm anyone intentionally. I talked to team pastor during Spring Training and asked him who the most faithful player is, and without hesitation he said DJ Carrasco. Take that as you may, but why would he be hurting anyone after he just battled back from an injury himself?
Just some ideas, let me know what you think.
” If he is going to DFA Carrasco after just 3 games, why is Manny Acosta still on the roster after 6 weeks of getting shelled? ”
Acosta has shown some ability. Corrasco hasn’t.
“The Mets had southpaws Chuck James and Justin Hampson pitching well in AAA, both with Major League experience, and both were passed up. ”
Neither of which are on the 40 man roster.
“Lastly, the part that bothers me most is that Carrasco’s Mets legacy will be as the guy who hit Ryan Braun and caused the Wright-Collins dispute.”
I think you are overstating that a bit. This will be forgotten until the Mets go to Milwaukee and then it will be forgotten for good when they leave.
Well ten years from now if someone mentions DJ Carrasco and you can actually remember who is he, that will be why.
Its about time. This guy without enough juice in his arm and meatball server should have been released over the winter. Geez, Sandy’s main priority over the offseason was to improve the bullpen and he brings in the erratic Francisco as the closer and the meh soft tosser Rauch who is coming back down to earth now as the main 8th inning reliever. When does Sandy and TC give Bobby Parnell another shot in higher leverage situations? Does Mejia get a shot in higher leverage situations if he’s pitching well for the Mets later this season? Its a tough call because you’re paying Francisco and Rauch a bunch of money for high leverage situations. Not in favor of promoting Carson over Edgin.
Don’t forget that sometimes it’s about who is on the 40 man as well and not wanting to place a guy on the 40 man too early.
Plus Edgin has an ERA over 7.00 right now in AAA.
Very true. I forgot Carson was on the 40-man. That is definitely why he got the call over everyone else. If they called up someone else that would make 3 players they would have to put on waivers when Young and Mejia come back.
First reaction about Crap-Ass-Co:
too bad they didn’t reach the decision yesterday morning. On the other hand, DJ didn’t lose the game, he just made it more difficult to come from behind.
Let’s not say “I knew it was a bad signing” because you know you didn’t. Relief pitching is at least 50% Black Magic. The result is that it’s a bad signing, but as others mentioned, DJ had pretty decent credentials before coming to the Mets. He sucked, he’s gone, and I wish him well as long as he is never effective against my Mets.
Good point.
Schoenewis the three years prior to his signing: 4.84 ERA 1.486 WHIP.
DJ: 3.77 1.322
Again this isn’t about Sandy vs Omar. This is about the plague of middle relief in baseball. These guys are all counted on too much and most are either failed starters or failed closers.
DING DING DING!
The problem isn’t one guy or one signing or one team. It is the entire way everyone approaches relief pitching and pitching in general.
No doubt and I think teams will start to realize this during THIS decade. I think you will maybe even see teams move away from “closers” again. Your best relievers should get paid well, no doubt. But if you use them in the biggest spots, regardless of inning then their worth will actually be more. Then you can manage your scrub pitchers to pitch more in scrub situations instead of holding your best pitcher for a situation that may never even exist because you didn’t use them when it mattered.
You’re more optimistic than me. Remember, saves and wins are tied into contracts. You’ll have a hell of a time bringing in good pitchers if you are rewarding them for those sort of stats.
The first team that moves in that direction is going to get crucified and honestly, it won’t pay off for them. It won’t make a difference until several teams adopt that philosophy and it will work best for the teams that do it in the second wave.
Rather, if you move away from rewarding pitcher for those stats.
They are only tied into contracts in terms of guys with more wins get more money. Remember you can’t have performance incentives based on actual performance stats. So wins and saves do not directly factor in.
So again pay your best relievers top pay and they will still come in. But also, we should be moving away from FA relief signings anyway.
You can’t have vesting options tied into performance. You can have bonuses tied to performance.
But, you are right that you should look internally to find your relievers. That just may not always be an option.
You sure you can have bonuses tied to actual stat performances? I thought it was always where they finished in certain awards, all-star games, etc. I am pretty sure I have never heard of bonuses for games actually saved or homeruns hit. Now you can link it to games finished like Krod but not saves.
TRS makes a good point. the issue of getting guys to come in doesn’t really matter if you are primarily building the BP from your own system (with some fill in on low budget FA and MiL invite types for the margins).
No, you might not get someone like Papelbon to come in if he can’t be annointed the closer and treated like a king, but if you aren’t interested in spending a huge chunk of budget on one, it won’t matter. You can still easily sign guys like Rauch if you want some veteran presence.
really just moving back to more of the model even in the 80s (not expecting to ever get back to the 50s/60s!). A few guys that make up the back end primary options (co closers if you wish), maybe 3 that can all be called in when the game is on the line, depending on matchups, who’s fresh, etc. And that can be used for a couple innings.
Then you have a guy or 2 that are primarily coming in for long relief/mop up duty. and the other guys are some sort of specialists (though I hate the idea of OOGYs), swingman, set up types (that can go with the back end or mop up guys depending on the day).
then, you pretty much divvy up the work based on who is earning it at the time, who is fresh, and who you think is the best option to face a particular team. And not because your chart says “if it’s Tuesday, this must be Belgium!”
Hmm there is a problem with how MLB is approaching things?
Is that the same MLB who mostly uses Sabers to determine who to get we keep hearing is the NEW WAY and the NEW APPROACH that us old fogies have to get on the program with?
Interesting!
“Hmm there is a problem with how MLB is approaching things?”
As an official league policy? No, not really. A few quibbles with the CBA, but it is more of an overall philosophy used by the teams.
“Is that the same MLB who mostly uses Sabers to determine who to get we keep hearing is the NEW WAY and the NEW APPROACH that us old fogies have to get on the program with?”
Teams do use sabermetrics to varying degrees. Of course, no one said this was a sbaermetrics issue.
This is more of an issue of MLB stil lvery much being a country club rather than a business. It has more to do with the group thin kand entrenched “thinking” that keeps the old fogies in power.
It also has a lot to do with fan bases expecting certain things. “Closer by committee” is seen as an admission that your bullpen sucks rather than saying you have more than one guy you trust the role with. Fans and media are so married to certain ideas and concepts because we think they are “how baseball is played” (despite the fact that a lot of these concepts aren’t that old or universal) that any deviation is seen as almost criminal.
I’ve read about several GMs and executives admitting closers are a bad idea, but if you don’t have a designated closer going into the season, you’ll get crucified for every late inning loss, even if you are i nfact better than you were with an assigned closer.
The fact is that thjis has nothing to do with old stats vs new stats but rather old guys being affraid to not follow along.
And for as much crap people here give Sandy for signing Carrasco or even Francisco to a 2 year deal, this is exactly why he did it.
A 1 year deal, maybe Carrasco and Francisco wouldn’t agree to… a 2 year deal still doesn’t handcuff the Mets. Releasing Carrasco now does almost no damage. If they had signed him to 3-4 years, then you have a problem and an Ollie P like scenario where you beg him to go to the minors.
I’m happy the Mets released him and happy their commitment wasn’t too over the top that they avoided releasing him
Ohhh Please.. Spare me the Butt licking… He gave contract to carrasco because he thought he’d find value in him for being cheap, he once again FAILED as a GM in finding it. now you’re prasing him for this? you’re a real work of art …
So GM’s should not look for value. I got it. LOL. Again he had an ERA under 4.00 for 3 straight years before the Mets signed him. How is that looking for some mystery value? That was just a plain ole traditional signing that unfortunately didn’t work out.
you really don’t even bother to look at facts or reality, since they don’t fit your agenda of rants, do you?
Sandy signed DJ for actual baseball reasons, not becaue he was cheap (salary came into play when deciding if the deal was worth it). And in this case, it clearly was. Basically, he signed a guy for relative chump change (barely more than you pay a rookie), and he got 2 years for some security (and most likely, a lower salary in year one). so instead of 2/2.5, maybe he would have had to go 1/1.75? something like that.
and the deal in no way tied the mets down.
Now, as to the BB reasons, while obviously he stunk last year, he was very consistant before that, and the team was screaming out for a reliable arm in the pen (and one that could spot start if needed).
In 2010, DJ pitched 78 innings, overall ERA of 6.68, whip of 1.3,almost 8K/9, and an ERA+ of 112. So basically, he had a pretty darned good year (and was even better after the trade to AZ).
heck, in 2009 he had an ERA+ of 125, so well above average for a middle relief guy.
So, he was signed for a modest contract, hoping he could do that for at least another year. Of course it did not happen, but AT THE TIME (avoiding that hindsight you hate so much), it was a very reasonable deal. And small enough that if he busted, you could fold the hand and walk away (as they just did).
Just complete BS to say that Sandy signed the guy simply because he was cheap. If that was the only criteria, he would have passed entirely and just invited 20 MiL invite guys in to fight for the job.
Oh Please Perez and castillo wasted only the same two years Carrasco did and Francisco might!
And Saying castillo was wasted money is a real stretch if you ask me. He only got 2 Mil more than Francisco and he hit .274 with a .366 OBP over 4 years
Perez in 2007 and 2008 had a 3.56 and 4.22 ERA SO so He too only wasted 2 years of his contract!
Sure he made more mo ney because he was a starter not a reliever who pitches one inning a game!
Perspective is as warped as ever regarding the past I see….
Omar had a horrible record….I wonder if you guys were even there to see what happened or if you just make up crap and hope no one else notices that fact?
What are you talking about? Ollie’s contract was after 2007-2008. It was 3/36 and he pitched in 31 games, 21 starts and a 6.81 ERA and a 1.985 WHIP.
Castillo was signed for 4/24.75M starting in 2008 and only had one season where he played more than 90 games.
So combined we paid those two 60.75M for that production.
Ahhhhh Money excuses not baseball again I see…
Tell me did we win any games because we were thrifty? Or did we just save the Wilpons money?
Your excuse works great from the Wilpon perspective but all this talk of money is pointless from a BASEBALL perspective!
And from that perspective the money you saved was more wasted than good!
from a baseball perspective, those 2 guys were terrible drags onthe team for years and helped lead to losing records. Nothing to do with their salaries.
And for two years were partof the reason we were competing for the playoffs in September too!
At best you can say it is a wash!
Two years of contribution two years of suck!
Certainly better than two years of suck for carrasco!
So the contracts for Castillo and Perez were OK because before they were signed they helped contribute. I got it.
Whats more wasted? A Guy who gives two good years then two bad years or a guy who gives just two bad years?
One at least gave you something the other absoloutly NOTHING!
You don’t get to count the time before the contract as part of the contract. Wow.
No we are taking ACQUSITIONS….Your the only one trying to talk contracts!
Because thats the only way you can make a case for removging the good the ACQUISITION brought here!
Stat Manipulation at it’s finest!
At best you can say it is a wash!”
Metsie, whatever it is you’re drinking or taking… Please advise…
I know you guys usually see eye to eye on a lot of things but Metsie’s been a little off the wall today. Perez and Castillo were good signings because they contributed before they were signed, Wright is being protected by the hitters sucking… Interesting philosophies.
You’re wrong.. Me and maniac, metsie, bayonne, vinny , MNJ and others often don’t see eye to eye… Problem is we don’t insult each other nor use snarky remarks etc… We don’t agree on everything as you and your buddies from TRDD do
Very True there alex!
We disagree on a few issues Wright being one but we don’t talk to each other like we are a superior being (like others do) and can discuss the issues without resorting to call each other crazy and dumb!
Can’t say that for others.
LOL, so you are saying that you don’t talk to others like you are superior to them? Mr 306 IQ. Man you are on a roll today.
Nope…I only talk down to those who talk down to me and others….
Call me the Karma King!
In other words, you are a fine follower of Peewee Herman.
Nah I never really got him…But did date a few ladies who thought he was cool…Mans gotta do what a Man’s gotta do you know! LOL
You two are completely delusional. You call out people for talking as if they are superior, but are perfectly fine with vial name calling? Sexist remarks etc….
WOW, now I have read everything
Metsie, careful. The baiter is back!
Thanks for proving my point. Calling me names, a baiter? That’s a funny one, you don’t know the meaning of the word with your constant misuse, but that never stops you. You sir are the personification of hypocrisy.
Tthis is a mets blog. it’s for mets talk, baseball talk.. When are you gonna come into this site and talk baseball instead of just waiting for one of us to say something and you complain and Moan about it huh?? That is all you do, you never bring any baseball related convesation to the table, it’s only to provoke people and bait them so you can use you’re female card… Goa away.. you should be the one getting banned from here instead of the ones you have baited into being banned…
Alex, you do have a point with Kay. I haven’t see her post to many actual comments of her own.
However, how is that some would be weak enough to get baited into being banned?
Kay I have to say over the last 6 months I have not seen you make a single post about baseball and all of your comments have been about posters!
So right now your a big fat Kettle calling out the POT!
You reap what you sew!
Thanks TRS.
I actually haven’t posted much at all in months, simply because I’m sick of the same old argument, the same people and their nasty comments (which are hardly baseball related)
Just because YOU or this other childish clique don’t/can’t read when I do did post baseball related comments, doesn’t actually make it true no matter how many lies are made on this site and repeat the same old garbage over and over.
This is not life, or it certainly is not my life. I did make the mistake of reading through and getting caught up with the lies made up of these two that talk about others that insult and I chimed in – certainly that was my mistake, you can’t talk rationale with ignorance.
Lets Go Mets
Considering you have been over there so many times and are a registered member perhaps you could tell me how it is that all of us agree. In fact just the last couple of days we have disagreed on the Terry/Wright incident, the DJ release, the use of the bullpen, what to do with Bay. Not much different, we just don’t insult people.
Alex68 — You need to figuratively get off Kay’s back. You always resort to calling her a ‘baiter.’ If a person who posts something has real information or a well-defined point of view, baiting is impossible. Improving the content of posts will do wonders for whiners.
Personally, many of us are tired of the incessant Sandy bashing. Do you get the drift?
Whoa Whoa Whoa now I see where you guys are getting tripped up…
I never said they were good signings but from a baseball comparative they were BETTER than Carrasco who gave you NOTHING!
Thats all I’m saying here!
LOL, no Perez was not a better signing that Carrasco. How can you even say that with a straight face? It doesn’t matter that Perez contributed in 2008… that was before he was signed.
Perez had a WAR of -1.9 during his 3 year 36M contract.
Carrasco had a WAR of -.6 during his 2 year 2M contract.
Are we seriously debating this?
Wait a second, we’re talking about WAR here??? Wright’s “MVP” dream season so far has only netted him a 2.2 WAR… so…. isn’t a 2.2 like a below avg or something???? I know it says it’s not good so.. Idk even the sabergoons will say something about #5 dream season so far
WAR Explained (v2.1): 8+ MVP, 5+ A-S, 2+ Starter, 0-2 Sub, < 0 Repl
Nice point Alex. I am not a firm believer in WAR either but what other stat other than the obvious could you use to show that Carrasco’s contract didn’t hurt the team as much as Oliver Perez’s did? Other than common sense.
WAR is cumulative. Wright’s at 2.7 right now after 34 games. A full season on this pace would give him something like a 12.5 WAR which would be legendary. But yeah, WAR is weak.
Again with the WAR which even Sabermetricians say is a god awful stat?
Your seriously telling me a guy we signed and spent the majority of his time in the MiLs is a better acquisition than a guy who was good as a starter in our rotation for two years?
And the other two sat on the bench?
Metsie, how do you get to count the years before the contract as being part of the contract? That makes no sense.
Because I’m talking about Acquisitions while you are trying to manipulate stats based on contract dates and removing the REASON why he got the contract in the first place!
No one was talking about acquisitions they were talking about the contract. Also, are you refusing to admit why DJ got his contract? It wasn’t for blind stupidity either.
No YOU were comparing contracts and using Money…I was comparing the acquisitions of Omar vs Sandy!
Who did they evaluate and gave contracts to!
Omar gave Perez a contract based on his performance.
Carrasco never performed even before he got here!
Thats why he was so cheap!
“A 1 year deal, maybe Carrasco and Francisco wouldn’t agree to… a 2 year deal still doesn’t handcuff the Mets”
Hi Jessup,
Remember Sandy was aimable to re-signing both Takahshi and Feliciano but only for one year, not two? Would these deals have handcuffed the Mets?
Even though he passed the Yankee physical, if it was concern about Perdro’s arm being over-used why not the same concern about Carasco. I know I already stated this but it is important to consider that Pedro is only one year older than D.J., had pitched way less innings the prior two seasons and sported a much better ERA during the course of that time as well.
Relievers it’s often not about the innings but appearances and for some the amount of times warmed up as well. Those signings would have handcuffed us about like FFF does now, which is not incredible but much more than DJ’s 2.2M as a middle reliever.
Unless for a miraculous turnaround by this bullpen, there’s no way it can be argued that Alderson did a good job with the bullpen. 1st let’s look at who he brought in for this year: Francisco, Rauch, Ramirez, Byrdack, and Carrasco – Carrasco was awful there’s no argument there. Same with Francisco, unless he completely turns it around. but with the way he’s looked recently, that seems unlikely. Ramirez and Rauch IMO have been underwhelming. Rauch’s stuff doesn’t really impress me (I also thought he threw harder), and looks very hittable to me. I think a lot of fans overrated Ramirez, I don’t think he’s that good, and he hasn’t pitched well this season – Of all the pitchers he brought in to pitch this year, Byrdak has been the only good one.
But that brings me to another point, why did the Mets this year(and last year too) only go with ONE lefty in the bullpen? Especially one that’s 38 years old? It’s a terrible idea, obviously he can’t pitch every day, so there’s going to be games where the Mets have no left handed pitchers in the bullpen – It just puts the team at an unnecessary disadvantage.
And maybe the worst move was keeping Carrasco on the 40man and not protecting Rhiner Cruz. He’s a young, talented pitcher, and is pitching well for Huston this year.
So, just a bad job overall with the bullpen.
I’m always going to wonder if the Braun incident also played a small part into the decision to cut Carrasco. Even though I find that they were quick with the trigger to release him after just 4 appearances in 2012 Carrasco’s body of work didn’t make it difficult to release him. Carrasco himself understood the move.
Oh I think it had a large part to do with it. Assuming he did intentionally hit him and it was not at the direction of the team then he put his teammates in danger because he sucked and got pissed about it.
I think you’re right, North. Carasco’s time with the Mets was limited but they were going to give him another chance. The Braun incident added fuel to the fire and was the last straw.
Sooooo….can Acosta be next? Please?
Yep. then frank Francisco, Rauch, Ramirez and Cedeno… That’ll complete the awful offseason our Beloved GM had… SMh..
Dang as soon as we released Cedeno the Phillies would sign him and he would get the winning hit against us. Haven’t we already been down this road?
Again, Cedeno for his role is fine. The problem is that Tejada is injured. Little early to call Rauch or Ramirez failures. Rauch was awful last night but I am not going to defend him again today. You can look at his game logs for yourself. As for Ramirez, you do realize that since his rough start his ERA is 2.87 over the last 28 days and 2.45 over the last 14.
Rauch & Ramirez? Are you on crack?
Thank you for releasing him. I know he was a stop gap kind of guy.
Don’t know why it’s so hard to admit that so far Alderson cannot compare to what Minaya did if you were to compare the 2 at this stage of their tenure. Don’t kow why it’ so hard to realize Alderson is just doing a LOUSY job with couple spurts of good moves. And don’t give me he had no money sob story because he inherited a very good lineup when he came here and he did a lackluster effort to acquire decent players while other teams were signing decent players for good prices left and right.
We’ve been here the last 2 off season almost on a daily basis during those off seasons wondering why this player and that player were not acquired by Alderson while other teams were signing these players. So Alderson has had the opprotunity to make the Mets a more competitive team. He’s done TERRIBLE job so far and it’s unbelievable the people refuse to acknowledge that
Let the farm work for us! Glad to see Carson. I hope more will follow. Dicky should be our Closer.