Kirk Nieuwenhuis Should Not Lose Playing Time For Anyone

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• Hawk May 23, 2012 at 3:01 pm

  Captain Kirk
  Live long and prosper
• Metsie May 23, 2012 at 3:04 pm

  I agree Clayton

  I don’t think a single person would believe that Torres or Bay have any role in our long term future but Kirk does….

  If they expect him to be the regular CF then they need to play him there and let the others fight it out for starts between themselves.
  If they have someone else in mind for the CF role and prefer Kirk in LF then make Bay play CF when he plays until that long term answer is ready.

  We need to stop playing roulette with these guys we bring up, Pick the spot you want him, keep him there and let him make that position his own without having to think about where he is and what he needs to do to play well.

  Fielding is a reactionary art and the more you play the more reactionary the instincts become.

  For the same reason if they do manage to send Ike down they had better leave Murphy at 2B and Duda in RF.

  Find someone to play 1B in the meantime but do not stop the progress of guys who are in the proccess of learning a position. Don’t let one bad apple ruin the rest of the barrel!
• Joey D. May 23, 2012 at 4:15 pm

  I don’t understand where there is a problem. Keep Torres as the fourth outfielder and give the job to Kirk until he shows he can’t handle it.

  Wally Backman recently said “”This kid doesn’t deserve to go back to Triple-A with the way he’s swung the bat so far, but he needs to play. I think for his development, he needs to play every day.”

  Sandy Alderson also said “If a guy is not going to get more than two or three at-bats a week, that’s not a good thing.” When asked if a decision had been made he added” You never know from day to day what new opportunities will arise”.

  Since it will be the general manager’s ultimate decision on what to do with Captain Kirk, I do question what more opportunities need to arise for the rookie to remain the everyday center fielder? Kirk’s already earned a shot as an everyday player, much more than Torres. If our goal is to indeed rebuild, what better way to help foster his progress? Kirk can always be sent down.

  it might just be that Terry Collins and his braintrust want to take it slow with Nieuwenhuis and have advised Sandy that Kirk might not be completely ready yet despite what we as fans are seeing so far. That’s my only guess as to why no commitment one way or the other has been made. We just have to wait and see.
  • stick May 23, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    no reason to make any kind of commitment of definitive statement at this point. Bay is not really close to coming back (couple weeks at the earliest?), and a lot can happen in that time.
  • Mr North Jersey May 23, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    Joey D, off topic I kept thinking about our conversation the other time and your question about Wheeler’s balls to strike ratio. I couldn’t find pitches/strikes for A+ as they don’t seem to list them in the box score but they do list them for AA. Here is the breakdown for you as best as I can tell so far.

    http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ApxE2V-jZhJHdGxnbnNKTXlvWjFKZlYteVZ5NzZrclE&single=true&gid=1&output=html
    • Joey D. May 23, 2012 at 10:01 pm

      Hi North,

      Hey, thanks so much for finding that information and forwarding it on.

      I think we might be beginning to see real progress with Zach and his control his last two outings. Notice his strike percentage is now closely that of the average major league pitcher which is around 62 percent? And that he is now throwing the same amount of pitches over seven and eight innings of work that he used to throw in just five.

      Very good signs indeed.

      Thanks again,
      Joe
• stick May 23, 2012 at 4:29 pm

  certainly not for Torres.

  bay will play vs. RHP, Kirk vs. LHP, and Torres when he has to.
• USMF May 23, 2012 at 4:30 pm

  Bay should not be back until he’s played and had success in several minor league games.

  When he comes back, Kick should see the majority of time in CF over Torres.
• Even Flow May 23, 2012 at 4:36 pm

  Why are we continuing to beat a dead horse? Nieuwenhuis will be back as the starting CF when Bay returns. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Don’t think for one second management doesn’t see the writing on the wall.
• USMF May 23, 2012 at 5:20 pm

  Can you imagine how good Kirk will be once he learns how to approach MLB pitching?

  I’ve never seen a guy who swings at so many bad pitches strikes out so much hit as well as he does!

  It is scary, because I fear that the league will catch up to Kirk at take advantage of his aggressiveness…but it just seems like this kid feels no pressure while he’s up there. He can miss a curve ball in the dirt by two feet on one pitch and then lace a line drive right on the next.

  He’s one of the few guys whose AB’s I don’t want to miss because I feel like he’s always capable of doing something big…it doesn’t matter the count, who he’s facing or the situation he’s in.
  • Metsie May 23, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    what I saw from Kirk early is he was aggressive while the team had a very passive approach.
    When he was his hottest it was at the time Opposing Pitchers were trying to sneak fastballs by everyone early in the count and Kirk was just slapping them!

    Now that the team has gotten a bit more aggressive they are not throwing those early fat pitches as much and it has cost Kirk a few Ks. (Could be said Wright’s K’s have come up too)

    Pitcher make adjustments and batters have to counter. Sometimes they try to get a strike on you early requiring you to be aggressive and other times they will try to get a strike by throwing out of the zone.

    Doesn’t matter what happens if you can’t fight off a Pitcher with 2 Ks on you and protect the plate till you get something good to hit, then no matter which philosophy you think will work at any given time it’s what the batter does with 2Ks on him that makes him a good hitter or not!

    Murphy is as much a hacker as anyone but he has his average because he gets tough with 2Ks on him!
    Tejada is also very good at it!
    • USMF May 23, 2012 at 9:05 pm

      I chuckle every time I hear someone talk about Murph’s plate discipline or his patience or how good of an eye Murphy has…and believe me, I hear it from the hacks all the time, it’s like they don’t even watch the game.

      Now I love Murphy and I think he’s a real good hitter, but that dude is nothing but a hacker….if the ball is anywhere near the strike zone odds are he’s going to swing at it. The only reason he gets away with it is because he has great plate coverage and bat control which equals great contact ability.

      Now I wouldn’t want anybody to emulate Murph at the plate…if Kirk wanted to copy anybody, he should watch Wright and his new/old approach.

      The reality is, not one approach works for every hitter or every game. Sometimes you need to be aggressive, sometimes you need to be take pitches…sometimes it doesn’t matter what you do, you just get beat.

      I don’t necessarily love this new approach the Mets have…I like taking pitches, but I hate watching a 2-0, 3-1 FB go by without a swing. Sure, the Mets are near the top in BB%, but they are also neat the top in K% too…Sure, they are near the top in OBP, but that makes them only middle of the pack in runs scored. Why? because they are towards the bottom in SLG. If you what extra base hits and score runs, you gotta take advantage of hitters counts.
      • Metsie May 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm

        Murphy does have a good eye but he has even better bat control!

        There is only one way to WORK a pitcher if you ask me and that has to do with what you do with 2Ks on you. Thats not a philosophy it is a skill. Doesn’t matter if your passive or aggressive early in the count, If you can fight with 2K then you will succeed and see better pitches.

        Other than that it is impossible to work a pitcher as he decides which philosophy you need to get the success off him. He decides if he is going to throw strikes early or if he is going to try and miss your bat, not the batter!

        If he throws early strikes you need to be aggressive, if he doesn’t you need to be passive guess wrong it doesn’t matter if you can fight with 2K on you. You’ll get your hits or walks then.

        I don’t think anyone knows the full deal of what Hudgens is preaching, they think they know because they have their own beliefs about OBP and consider walks a better judge of hitting than hits!

        Truth is Hudgens probably isn’t preaching passive approach what he is preaching is swing at strikes and pitches you can hit, that doesn’t mean don’t swing at balls. You can hit pitches out of the strike zone if it’s in your wheelhouse too.

        What can happen early in the AB is not determined by the batter it’s determined by the Pitcher which means the Batter should expect anything and adjust his approach accordingly!

        Baseball and the batter vs pitcher aspects of it is an excersize of Move/Counter Move.
        The second you adopt a single philosophy you have given the opponent the advatage of prediction. So any one Set Philosophy can be used against you!

        Go Passive the pitcher can get his strikes early
        Go aggressive and he can get them early without even throwing a strike!

        To quote Bruce Lee:
        “Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there.”

        “If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you’ll never get it done.” (This one applies to Bay in Spades!)

        “To hell with circumstances; I create opportunities.”

        “Using no way as a way, having no limitation as limitation.”

        If you learn how to be adaptable then it doesn’t matter what the Pitcher decides to do you will be ready for it!

        And by fighting with 2K and swinging and wasting pitches that are close enough to call you will get those calls from the ump when you don’t swing eventually and do more to work a pitcher than taking strike 1 and 2 will ever do!

        Unfortunatly the problem here is too many are busy trying to justify OBP and Walks instead of the actual goal of being up there which is to GET A HIT!

        Plate Discipline is not about not swinging at balls or taking pitches, It’s about hitting strikes and pitches you can hit!
        And taking strikes or pitches that can be hit is a FAILURE not a success!

        They can quote ted Williams till they are blue in the face but Ted Williams never let a fastball down the middle of the plate get by him! And the few times it did happen he sure didn’t let it happen again in the same AB!
• Metstheory22 May 23, 2012 at 5:24 pm

  Torres should be 4th outfielder, but Baxter is doing a better job right now also.
  • Metsie May 23, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    What eally needs to happen is either Bay, Torres or Both need to be traded for something…

    Thats the only GOOD solution!

    Unfortunatly Bay won’t have enough PAs to convince anyone to take him which means either we pay all of his remaining salary and get some no name kid or package him with some other Prospect plus cash and maybe get something we really need.

    But it’s highly unlikely we will find any takers,
    • Just Some Internet Guy You Dont Know May 23, 2012 at 6:01 pm

      No one is taking Bay or Torres for anything.

      Kirk should play and let him have his ups and downs. If it wasn’t for injury he would have arrived last year. His strikeouts are kind of alarming but with time that will change. He still managed to keep his average up and be clutch when others are scuffling.

      Bay is a hard guy to hate but he needs to go. Let him do a full 30 day rehab though he will probably push to be back sooner. They need him to find his swing as much as they need Ike to. Bay looks like he lost bat speed though and when you get older, that is not something you get back.
• sarge69 May 23, 2012 at 10:20 pm

  Torres as 4th OF? Maybe for defense, PR or occasional fill in but Baxter should be 4th OF if he doesn’t have to fill in at 1b for Ike if he gets sent down.

  Nuff Said! Cap Kirk to the bridge!
• Joe D May 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm

  Excellent post Clayton! I agree with you. Let Bay get his everyday job and hope that those nine games before he got injured were a sign of things to come. But regardless of what happens, Nieuwenhuis should continue to play everyday and grow as player. If it means that Torres rides the bench as a utility outfielder than so be it. I have no interest in wasting valuable time to develop Nieuwenhuis on a player who wont be here beyond 2012 in Torres.
  • Clayton Collier May 24, 2012 at 12:02 am

    Thanks Joe! And I agree, Kirk is too valuable to be riding the bench in favor of someone batting under .200, I just hope Terry Collins will (and I think he has), see that Kirk should be in the lineup everyday over Torres or anyone else they throw out there.
• L.J. Phipps May 23, 2012 at 11:54 pm

  I said that when Collins was talking about Torres getting his starting spot back over Kirk when he came back from the DL …… why? Let Torres be the 4th outfielder and give Kirk the bulk of the time in center. Platoon Bay & Torres if you must.
• Terry Mullen May 24, 2012 at 11:26 am

  Couldn[‘t agree more…the kid is awesome and should play every day!