1
2012
Kirk Nieuwenhuis Move Might Have Cost Mets
An article by 
Of course, it crossed my mind. Left field in Houston is a tough place to play, perhaps one of the toughest in the National League. So, when Jed Lowrie’s pop up fell between Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Ruben Tejada, it immediately raised the inevitable speculation the Mets’ newest left fielder felt awkward because it was his first time in left on this level.
As a centerfielder, Nieuwenhuis played aggressively, but on this play he appeared tentative.
“It was just a ‘tweener’ ball that I should have caught,” Nieuwenhuis said. “It dropped, and that’s unfortunate. (R.A. Dickey) was pitching a great game and I just made a mistake.”
Neither Nieuwenhuis nor manager Terry Collins blamed the mistake on the former playing a new position, but it’s on the table. There is always an adjustment period in playing a different position.
Nieuwenhuis stayed in the leadoff spot and delivered a game-tying, two-run single, but his offensive night was mixed because he was also picked off first base.
Before the game, I questioned the decision to move Kirk,
Torres is a veteran with some left field experience. He should be the one to go to left field. Why disrupt Nieuwenhuis’ rookie season? Why make him go through another adjustment period? He’s part of the Mets’ future, while Torres is a stop gap player at best.
What has Torres done for the Mets to warrant such special treatment?
We don’t know how good Nieuwenhuis can be, but we already have an idea of what the Mets can expect from Torres, and it isn’t much. It might be different if Neiuwenhuis were playing poorly and the Mets weren’t winning, but that isn’t the case.
I’ll say it again, leave Nieuwenhuis alone.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 28 | .600 | - |
| Nationals | 34 | 35 | .493 | 7.5 |
| Phillies | 34 | 37 | .479 | 8.5 |
| Mets | 25 | 40 | .385 | 14.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 47 | .319 | 19.5 |
Last updated: 06/18/2013
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The fact that Torres has a fair amount of LF experience in the majors was a big reason I thought he should have made the switch. That, and of course Kirk has looked real good in CF, so no real risk.
Agreed, pointless switch that shows no benefit.
I totally agree. Nieuwenhuis is the CF of the future, and this is clearly a rebuilding year. This could completely throw off his confidence in the field. I also didn’t understand Collins putting Valdespin in left last week for the first time in his life when he was already nervous making his Major League debut. Move Torres, the veteran, to left. He won’t be here as long as Kirk. You don’t want to mess with the future.
Collins is on a 2 year deal.Maybe his future is now and wants to get rehired?I hope that is not why he put Torres in CF
I doubt it has anything to do with getting rehired.
more likely, just that Terry is an old time, old school guy, and believes in the whole veterans get priority/deferrence. And not losing your job out on the DL, etc.
Hopefully though it is a quick reversal of plan. He has shown that he is willing to make a move when needed (a traditionalist, but not totally stubborn!)
Unfortunately, Collins’ 2013 option was already picked up at the end of last season.
collins is a fool.I questioned moving Kirk the minute I heard the great Andres Torres was returning and it kinda kicked them in the butt already.One other thing Terry, Acosta should never have stayed another inning in a tie game.To be fair we were 6-1 in one run games this year.Need a win tonite.
one thing with Kirk is that, depending on how the other prospects develop (right now, den dekker), he may ultimately end up on a corner, if someone else that is potentially a GG CF comes up to play. But, that is not happening anytime soon, and not something you want to do on the fly in real games if you can help it.
Not for nothing but LF isn’t usually a spot you “worry” about experience. This isn’t like Daniel Murphy who is an infielder being put in LF with no experience. This is a guy who plays CF being moved over.
LF is where you usually hide your worst outfielder.
So using lack of experience for a CF playing in LF doesn’t really jive with me.
I think the Torres move was done because he’s a veteran who was brought here for a reason and they haven’t seen what he can do yet. Kirk is young enough that you can move him around until you find out what the others have to offer. If Torres hits poorly, then he becomes the 4th OF.
Lets not forget Torres was robbed of a triple last night.
Kirk plays an exciting CF, but that doesn’t mean he plays a BETTER CF than Torres. If the Mets feel Torres plays a better CF than he should be the CF. We all do not have the luxury of knowing that yet.
We’re not scouts, and I’m willing to bet most people here have seen very few Andres Torres game tapes.
If Torres proves he’s a 4th OF, I’m confident he will be a 4th OF.
But I’m not gonna sit here and say a guy who plays CF very well has lack of experience in LF and that’s why the Mets lost.
Hey jessep, I’ll give you a dollar if you stop posting on that ticket sales post and let the damn thing die.
ha! I’m done on that thread for today
I chose to ignore it until I saw this and then I had to check it out. Thanks for wasting my life and I am sorry everyone in that thread wasted there’s as well. Holy Crap.
This is simply how the Mets operate, John. We have a third baseman playing second, a first baseman catching while another first baseman plays right field. A second baseman playing shortstop and a 7th inning guy closing games. Why shouldn’t the centerfielder of the future be jammed into left field? It’s only natural.
LOL, I only take a few issues with that. Thole has played more games at catcher than 1B in the minors and Tejada is a SS but played 2B here in an emergency. His bat plays much better at SS as well.
Hmmm…and I detect a whiff of disgust
Terry collins is a terrible manager… It seems the game has passed him already.. I don’t see nothinh special on him as a manager.. With that being said, i agree, i am not surewhy he moved kirk to LF for that PO-S andres torres… But, as i said, Collins is a terrible manager, so it does not surprise me in one bit!
I think terrible is an overstatement but he does have his moments for sure.
He is terrible imo, but more likable and a little bit more loyal to his players… Wally Backman is the guy i want here to manage the team.. I’d pay to see one of his rants LIVE!! Lol.. Can you imagine wally screaming to DW and the rest of the mets players: “you motherf***** can’t get a hit with men on base!! What the f*** you get so tight for?? Can’t handle the Motherf***** pressure eh? Lol
Yup. your average guaranteed contract, ML multi-millionaire responds to exactly that kind of treatment.
LOL, no more than kids respond to constant screaming from adults. After a while, they just tune it out.
Hahaha, I’ve actually had a conversation with Wally and he drops F bombs as much as he says “the”, “and”, and “a”! I don’t think he’ll go that ape sh*t on the players, but very hilarious!
No such thing as a perfect manager, Alex. Even LaRussa, Weaver, Herzog, Johnson had big flaws. Collins is infinitely better than Manuel right? So it’s a step in the right direction. Wouldnt be shocked if Bacman pushes him into a front office job next year.
That’s what I’ve always expected. He is a place holder while Backman grows up with the kids and they will come up next year for the next stage of the plan.
Collins has been just fine. These teams have fought so hard and that is directly related to the fire he brings. If Manuel was still here, they would have to forfeit most nights from the team not showing up.
I hated Jerry with a passion as a manager.
and I agree (and am on record from the beginning) that Terry was a ST hire, basically brought in to help with the clean-up/culture shift, but he wasn’t looking to be around long. Just get the ship stabilized, then slide back into a FO/player development role and relax. Since that is what I think the team wanted at the time, I don’t think any young manager was really considered then. But now? time to get the right guy in place to grow up with the team and take them to the next level.
Exactly. If they weren’t signing players with long term roles the last two years due to stabilizing the finances, why would they hire a long term manager? He was really just a tub boat getting a crippled ship back to shore.
Can’t figure out who I hate more, Howe or Manuel? Still might have to give the edge to Howe.
Howe made so little an impression, I cn’t even remember him. More like a cardboard cutout, with no specifics.
Personally I think Bamberger was the worst we have ever had! He knew it too and quit!
As for Howe he didn’t manage that team that team managed him!
No one could manage that team they were just too full of themselves!
Thing is, the game passed by collins, it seems he’s showing his true colors in terms of managin the game.. I hope this is his last year, i don’t see anything special on him other than a ticking bomb waiting to happen…
Again, I am not the leader of the Collins parade but something you said. He’s a ticking time bomb waiting to happen yet you want Wally?
Players LOVE fiery manager… I don’t think he’ll put up with some of the things collins put up with… Ticking Bomb with the media… He’s lucky the mets are winning..
What do you think Collins puts up with just out of curiosity.
Also, as a coach I think you statement that players love a fiery manager is way to generic. In fact in the past I thought the same that fiery was the way to go but over time I have learned the most effective coaching tool is balance. You have to know when to use the fire, when to be calm, who needs the fiery style, who needs to be pulled aside and who needs to be called out.
I agree with Gary and said so back when we were looking for a manager to replace Manuel.
They do seem to be grooming Backman for managing at some point but I am not convinced it is next year.
A Lot will depend on what the team does this year and at best I expect they will promote Backman to be a coach at the MLB level before they promote him to Manager.
Collins hasn’t done a bad job and yes he has made some mistakes from time to time you can
t say any of them has been a major blunder.
Every Manager gets second guessed at least 20 times a season thats what managing in NY is about.
The only issue I see where Collins can get into trouble in the future is this Upitty Up Attitude could wear thin in time especially if the team goes into an extended funk.
He was pretty quick to sit Davis and it seems to have had a positive affect and we all know someone like Manuel wold have left Ike in there to suffer.
So I can’t really Qibble much with what Collins has done and I’m not convinced that the Torres/Kirk situation is really all his decision and not Sandy’s.
Remember one of the reasons people liked the Pagan Trade was because we thoght we might steal a pick or prospect from someone by trading them at the deadline if we were out of it.
The arrival of Kirk may mean that we don’t have to be out of it to trade torres!
I don’t think Wally is pushing anyone. I think the plan has always been that if things go well, Collins does indeed move into a front office job. Probably player development.
Tuefel is the guy set up to take over if that happens.
Nope, I think Alex is dead on. Collins is a terrible manager. He’s a good leader of young men but can’t manage a baseball game to save his life.
Terry Collins is awful with young players. I expected this from him.
Actually, the rap on Collins is exactly the opposite; terrible with veterans, great with kids. Ask his former Angels and Astros players.
Exactly. I think TC has done very well with his young players actually.
And as for a “future” manager. The Mets were 2 games under .500 on Sept 9th and at .500 in early August. Currently they are 13-10.
All of these records are “above expectation.” They are above mine, above yours, and above everybody’s.
Until I see proof he’s a “bad” or “terrible” Manager, then TC is the guy I want.
As for Wally, he was my favorite player growing up but I gotta tell you, as much as I can see why people think Wally is being groomed to take over…
I think Teufel is getting more grooming from a guy SA chose to take the job. If one day TC isn’t here as Manager, Teufel is a guy nobody talks about because they all assume it’s Wally’s job.
But regardless, until this team plays below expectation, I’m not gonna get petty with minor decisions and suggest TC is a bad manager. He’s getting the most out of his players.
If Tuefel was being groomed he would not have been promoted and instead stayed at Buffalo to groom the team that will be promoted with whoever takes Collins’ place.
I personally don’t see any grounds they could justify replacing Collins under.
He has done the most important thing possible keeping up the spirits and fight of the team even in their darkest moments. You can’t train or groom a manager to have that skill it is a personality trait that you either have or don’t!
Collins has it with this team and lagely because he worked with most of the players he has on his roster now as MiL Development coach.
That dynamic could change quickly with the addition of some FA veteran or the loss of a key player that back him up such as Wright or Murphy.
Wright has the respect of the young players and Mrphy has that fall on a grenade for the squad attitude that illustrates what Collins’ preaches to them!
Tuefel has been in the Mets organization for most of the last decade. Backman for 3 years. What more could Tuefel do in Buffalo? Do you think he doesn’t know any of the youngsters coming up?
Putting him on the big club gets him exposure to the Show.
Other than that, I agree. Collins is doing a fine job and is the right guy for the team.
And what does that tell you about thier opinion of his ability to lead players?
How long was Davey Johnson with the team before he became manager?
If you are rising fast in the organization that shows more faith in his capability than someone who took 10 years to become a MLB 3rd base coach!
Obviously something has been holding Teufel back all this time!
or he would have been named a manager years ago, it’s not like we haven’t made a lot of changes in the last 10 years!
His rise was interrupted in 2006 so he took a year off and started over.
2003 Brooklyn
2004-2005 St. Lucie
2007 Gnats
2008-2009 St. Lucie
2010 – Bingo
2011- Buffalo
2012 Big show
So he has for sure been moving along the progression track.
Since Alderson became GM, he has been promoted with the same frequency as Backman. If he’s not part of the future, why is he on the big club?
“Obviously something has been holding Teufel back all this time!”
Cronyism?
“or he would have been named a manager years ago, it’s not like we haven’t made a lot of changes in the last 10 years!”
We’ve made a lot in the last 2. Remember, our current manager was no where near the top either.
Actually if you think about it at the time of the managerial changes Timmy had little experience above high A ball.
So your idea of grooming somebody to one day be a big league manager is to have them stay in AAA managing rather than sit with your current Manager and another former Manager in Geren?
What more can he do in Buffalo?
I’m going to give you Bingo points for being the only one to mention the name of the 500 Pound Gorilla in the room!
Geren!
I don’t think Collins is going anywehere anytime soon! If he does it sure isn’t going to be Teufel who takes over!
Valentine and Harrelson are the only two 3B coaches to ever become manager here if I’m not mistaken.
Harrelson was a disaster and valentine had to make his bones elsewhere before he got his shot!
Teufel was promoted for no other reason than to keep Backman happy and give him a promotion!
I don’t remember but I don’t recall Teufel being any credible candidate when Collins was hired to manage. Backman was!
It really doesn’t matter what their plans are for Teufel or Backman truth be told because I see no justification for firing Collins at this point and I don’t see him being happier wearing a suit as opposed to managing a team!
I don’t see him as a guy with aspirations of having an office and secretary!
I think Collins has the only office he wants!
“I’m going to give you Bingo points for being the only one to mention the name of the 500 Pound Gorilla in the room!
Geren!”
Not really. Unless Collins is fired or resigns suddenly, Geren is probably just waiting for an opening somewhere else, if at all. Assuming he is going to take over after Collins makes as much sense as assuming Don Zimmer was going to take over for Joe Torre.
If anything, Geren would make a good consigliari to Tuefel or Backman.
“Valentine and Harrelson are the only two 3B coaches to ever become manager here if I’m not mistaken.
Harrelson was a disaster and valentine had to make his bones elsewhere before he got his shot!”
Which means what to Tuefel? How many Mets managers were former minor league field coordinators? How many were bought from Oakland? How many were the Yankees 3B coach?
The path there means nothing. You’d be better served looking how Alderson’s teams have hired managers rather than how past Mets managers have come into the job.
“Teufel was promoted for no other reason than to keep Backman happy and give him a promotion!”
That is a horrible idea. It makes no sense at all. That would just make everyone involved angry and probably paranoid. Tuefel would look like he was passed over for a job he should be next in line for. Backman would have to worry about a guy with more experience in every relevant field and a chip on his shoulder working right under him. And Collins would be wasting his time with Tuefel.
If Tuefel really is in Backman’s way and he’s not in the future plans, why on earth is he still ahead of Backman? It would be better for all parties just to send Tuefel on his way.
“I don’t remember but I don’t recall Teufel being any credible candidate when Collins was hired to manage. Backman was!”
No, he wasn’t. That was just a bone to rabid fans with short attention spans. Collins wasn’t even considered a real candidate until a few days before he was announced. That shows just how much anyone knows about goes on behind the scenes.
A guy has one good season in short season A ball and you think he would get a shot at a big club? A guy who prior to last season never had back to back years in the same organization as a coach?
where do you come up with this stuff? How so awful? he obviously plays them, and gives them important roles, and they seem to be willing to go through a wall for him.
You should check out some of his other gems at @DumbMetsTweets
Links, please.
What’s up with moving Kirk to left,its not like he was a liability in center and they were winning games.The mets do not owe Torres anything where was it written that he was every day centerfielder. Lets move Kirk back to center where he belongs after all by next season will be saying Torres who.
If…if….if….if….my mother had balls she’d have been my father!
Leave the kid “Kirk” alone., He has been terrific and is no doubt the future center fielder of this team. I would bet that he ends up playing more in center field then Torres will the rest of the year.
Every game that we don’t win…you guys start with “if”
As it is…Terry Collins will not bench Torres after recovering from an injury. It is sort of an unwritten rule in baseball. Until Jason Bay comes back from his injury or Torres flops, Kirk will get playing time in left field with Hairston.
Do we have to criticize every move. This falls under BIG Freakin Deal