21
2012
Errors Galore In Ugly 5-4 Mets Loss To Bucs
An article by 
Yuck, this loss was U-G-L-Y!
The Mets jumped to an early 4-0 lead with their ace Johan Santana on the mound and looking pretty good. It was supposed to be a recipe for success, but it ended up being a recipe for disaster instead.
The Mets committed three errors in the game including two by David Wright, but it was the botched fly ball in the eighth inning that led to this latest Mets defeat.
Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Mike Baxter had both entered the game as pinch-hitters in the top of the eighth and then both remained in the game with Baxter taking over in left field and Kirk in center. They nearly collided in center field chasing after a Neil Walker fly ball which bounced off Nieuwenhuis’ glove for a three-base error and allowed the Pirates to score a 5-4 victory.
Santana allowed four runs on eight hits and two walks while striking out seven over 6 1/3 innings. He didn’t figure into the decision.
The Mets did all their scoring in the second inning with the big hit coming off the bat of Justin Turner who ripped a two-run single with the bases loaded.
David Wright and Ronny Cedeno each had two hits in the game. Vinny Rottino started at first base and picked up a hit before being replaced by Ike Davis who struck out in both his at-bats.
The series continues Tuesday, with R.A. Dickey (5-1, 3.75 ERA) facing off against James McDonald (3-2, 2.68) at 7:05 PM.
The Mets will have to shake this bad loss off and move on.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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Seems as though Johan pitches better with no run support. Score him runs and he gives it back, score him none and he holds em. It also seems like this is just another typical Mets loss. Find a way to lose.
Fonzie13 — Seems to me you’re blaming the victim of the crime. The Mets have be sabotaging Santana for a couple of years. Only his competitiveness and composure has kept this from being a destructive issue beyond the diamond and into the clubhouse.
I know Des, it’s been that way since he’s been here but this year the games where he’s had some run support he hasn’t pitched well and the games where he’s gotten no run support he’s been lights out. Obviously there have been more games where he hasn’t had any run support cause he’s pitched extremely well.
This loss hurt. With the Mets lineup struggling as it’s been you’d think scoring 4 runs and with Santana on the hill vs a Bucs team that has struggled offensively as well the Mets were looking good to at least hold the lead till the pen came in. But Santana who normally doesnt get run support could not hold the lead and wound up letting the Bucs tie the game.
The offense other than that 4 run inning just couldn’t score more runs. Torres, Davis and Nickeas all together in the lineup not hitting is really tough right now. Didn’t expect much from Nickeas and kept an open mind on Torres though didn’t expect Torres to hit as bad as he has over last 10 games but was expecting more from Davis.
The pen did it’s job for the most part. Parnell and Byrdak got out of the 7th keeping the game tied and Rauch could of gotten out that inning without a run scoring but unfortunately the dropped ball due to Baxter not hearing Kirk call for the ball put the go ahead run at 3rd with no outs and though Rauch got the 1st out the Duda throw home for the sac while close wasn’t close enough and the Bucs took the lead never to relinquish it.
Positive for me will be Capt Kirk’s pinch hit single. Really hard to feel positive about much after this game.
Dickey on the hill 2morrow. Need to take the next to.
LGM!
Other than David, Murph, Duda and Kirk on occasion this lineup has more holes than our BP.
How can you continue an inning with Cedeno, Torres, Nickeas and Ike not providing anything to keeping the wheels going in a possible big inning.
Ike might need to go down, he needs to consider this for himself and team cause the loss of power from his bat means a lot of walks and singles to score from players not used to playing a lot.
Seems like we had a very tough road to hoe w/ last night’s lineup. Still, we got the four runs. Johan wasn’t great. I hate to break it, but he looks to be about 85% his old self. Last few starts he’s looked above average. Control has dogged him throughout May.
The lineup and position players who work together best:
1. Torres
2. Neuwinhuis
3. Murphy
4. Duda
5. Wright
6. Turner (for Davis) 1B
7. Cedeno (till Tejada)
8. Johnson and Nickeas (till Thole returns)
Torres and Nieuwy have shown they can effectively patrol center and left well together. Duda is no star, but his fielding in right has gotten progressively competent.
Turner is a no-brainer bench guy while Davis–hopefully-finds himself. Look, this team doesn’t hit for power, but it certainly can put up four-six runs on most days.
Last night was one of those games that we lost for inexplicable reasons. Can’t dwell on it, but it was a horrible loss.
Fight and claw–as I said yesterday–to win the next two. Bucs not about to lie down and expire for us.
I like Murphy hitting #3 also.
Russell, i am sorry, ANDRES TORRES as your leadoff?? Based on what??? His 189 BA? His 333 OBP? or his luis castillo like Slugging % of 270? his speed is what brought this guy here, yet he’s got nothing but 1 stolen base and has been caught twice already, another soon to be failure for sandy alderson, funny, when that trade happen and a stupid article was written about sandy having a good day noone paid attention that the mets were gonna pay $5.2 million combined to torres and ramirez… Add that to the $12 he shelled out for FFF and the $3.5 to rauch, YIKES, seems like another AWFUL offseason for sandy.. But hey, Let’s no go there, let’s not blame sandy for anything as long as we have a winning record ok.. SMH
I agree that Torres should be no where near the top of the lineup. Don’t have a lot of options right now though. I like Kirk a lot but he is striking out at an alarming rate. He would have almost 200 strikeouts over a full season. I guess honestly though if there is a spot the strike out would hurt you the least it would be leadoff.
Today I would go LaRussa and bat Torres 9th if he has to play. With a RH on the mound today there should be no need for that.
Maybe
Kirk, Baxter, Murphy, Wright, Duda, Davis, Cedeno, Johnson?
Man do we need Tejada and Thole back.
No real argument on Torres. He looked good first two weeks back, but he’s been sucking big time. I do like his fielding, so he does bring that asset. Still, if we had some day-to-day consistency with the group I mentioned, then I think we can win more than lose.
We could move Torres to 7th and let Tejada bat lead off when he returns, but RT is pretty mediocre in terms of speed. I think Murph could be a natural LO man, but he’s too productive in the three slot.
Look, I’ve heard you and those who oppose you loud and clear for three months. I have no interest–zero, nada, zip–in discussing how good or bad GM (s) is, are, have been, etc.
What we all saw is that we were looking like a decent team with Thole and Tejada as every day guys. I really like most of the fresh blood, but no sense just turning them loose now or shuffling and re-shuffling lineups every other day. Not unless, of course, things go haywire.
LGM!!!
“Look, I’ve heard you and those who oppose you loud and clear for three months. I have no interest–zero, nada, zip–in discussing how good or bad GM (s) is, are, have been, etc.”
LOL, tell me about it.
Can’t even have a baseball discussion anymore. I come on to say that the game was lost by Johan giving up 4 runs to a bad offense and Terry wasting Murphy and get the same ole crap.
SO we are going to blame Terry and Johan now? Is that the new EXCUSE for our problems?
Why was Johan in there at all? Was it because the BP has been so ROCK SOLID coming into games and holding leads? Or because no manager who wants to stay a manager would trust our BP with anything less than a 4 run lead?
You think Terry should have Blown up his bench pinch hitting for Nickeas in a tie game and leave himself nothing to go to if it goes to extra innings? Especially at the catcher position?
Why are we short on Catchers again? Was it because we made it a priority in the offseason?
Funny how none of you were tired of the Sandy Arguments before Week 2 of this season…
Are you guy REALLY tired of it or is it just that it leaves a bad taste in your mouth and you finally realize what some of us had been saying is true and coming out to bite us in the a$$ now?
Doesn’t matter that question doesn’t require an answer or discussion it was rhetorical but I will say this, if you are going to try and start blaming Terry to deflect blame from the “ONE TRUE GOD” Your not really going to avoid the Sandy discussion just perpetuate it!
Terry didn’t create the Roster he has to use, someone else did!
And if you want to blame money feel free but all that will do is prove what many of the so called Sandy haters have said, You need to spend there is no Buying wins on the cheap!
Unfortunatly the sides on that issue mirror the sides on the Sandy conversation…
So your not really gaining anything by going there are you?
So we shouldn’t expect Johan to get through the 7th inning vs the Pirates?
Also, who lead off the very next inning? Murphy with no one on base,
They could have pinch hit Murphy for Little Nicky and let Vinny catch if Johnson was unavailable. They could have also pinch hit Murphy for Torres with 2 outs and runners on. Instead Murphy was used the very next AB with no one on.
On a DAMP RAINY day you should expect a guy coming back from shoulder surgery to go 7 innings?
As for Murphy, So you would go into extra inning with no one to catch should Rotino get hurt?
For Torres? Who pray tell goes into CF after that? Murphy? Or Kirk?
Would your scenario stop that run from scoring that won the game? NO!
But lets jjust say that didn’t happen and it remained tied…
Whose left on your bench should you need a pinch hitter in the 10th 11th, 12th and 13th innings pray tell?
If you didn’t like the fact that Johan ran out of gas then ask yourself why he was in a position to run out of it in the first place?
If you think Torres is not good enougyh of a hitter to drive in a run ask why is he here at all?
And then ask yourself where would Murphy play if he did PH for Torres?
Cause you can’t say doing so would have won the game maybe it just ties it. And what do you do then when you need a pinch hitter or rotino gets hurt?
Do you play for the win or the tie on the road?
Also, I have already explained, If they had pinch hit Murphy for Torres it would have been Baxter and Kirk in the OF the same way it was. Then you could have let Murphy play 1B.
If Murphy got a hit there then you have a two run lead.
Do you blow out you bench with a chance to score only 1 run in a tied game no matter where you are?
You play for the WIN but that only applies to the situational play calling not how you use your bench!
Why is Nickeas here?? What was the position most ignored by one side in that discussion your so tired of talking about?
Why is Torres here? If he can’t score a guy from 3rd then why is he here at all?
Money? Well apparently that money saved was pretty useless yesterday wasn’t it…Didn’t buy you a win did it?
To me it appeared that Santana was almost out of gas that inning and before two-run blast my thought was that TC was trying to get one more inning out of him with less use of the pen.
On another note, I was listening to the radio broadcast when the ball was dropped by Kirk. Josh Lewin was talking about some sort of problems with Kirk’s voice, that he could hardly speak much above a whisper and was suggesting that Baxter didn’t hear Kirk call him off.
Anybody else hear that story?
but he’s been sucking big time”
Russell, he’s been doing that his whole career… Amazing how we’re paying this guy $2.7 million.. Isn’t sandy supposed to be some type of genius at finding undervalue guys who can perform? Seriously, the guy had a good week, just like torres, FFF, Rauch and Ramirez did… Pathetic Job from our GM in back to back offseason… But hey, let’s no go there
Ugly game no doubt. Play in center was gross, but it is not the first time that has happened over the years on this team, but hopefully the last.
This is a game they have to forget about, move on and get on the right track.
Ike going to the minors to fix himself should be imminent. Some talk about losing his defense, well he’s ranked 9th in NL 1basemen with 3 errors so it’s not like we are losing a gold glove out there right now. I still believe he has all the potential in the world, but it needs to be fixed now and fast.
This game to me is on Johan and Terry. One if you are going to be competitive then your #1 pitcher has to hold a 4 run lead vs the Pirates, the worst offense in the world. Two if you are Terry Collins, wake up at times and figure out what the hell is going on. How do you let Little Nicky and Andres Torres bat in such critical situations with Murphy on the bench?
The three errors are ugly but only the final one cost us. That being said, it should have never came down to that.
That being said, it should have never came down to that’
Maybe you’re giving this team more credit of being good than they really are.. Hmm?
I bet you would love that huh?
What is your opinion Alex? You thought going in with the way Johan has pitched that the Mets should lose to the Pirates after giving Johan a 4-0 lead?
Honestly TRS, with the shi*** bullpen we have i don’t feel safe unless we have a 10 run lead in the 9th.. Also, somehow the offense was put to sleep..
That’s not the point. Again, do you think Johan should be able to protect a 4 run lead vs the Pirates and do you think Terry used his bench wisely. If those two things would have happen do you think the Mets would have never been in the position for the error to hurt?
Wait, what??? are you second guessing? Remember, Johan is not the johan of old.. He’s not as dominant as he once was, so 8 run lead is not safe with this mets, you should know that.
Johan doesn’t have to be the Johan of old but if you give him a 4-0 lead vs the Pirates he still should be able to get through the 7th with out giving all of them back. That’s not hindsight… LOL. I wanted to leave Johan in. I just wanted him to get outs vs the worst offense in the league.
A so a guy who has pitched 7 innings coming off JOINT surgery should be required to not give up two runs but a guy coming in FRESH from the pen, and No Surgery present is fine giving up 3-4 runs…..
IC….
BTW even the worst offense scores runs from time to time…
You want to blame someone for this loss blame the two rookies who didn’t communicate in the OF and screwed the pooch that gave them the winning run!
Again, IMO it shouldn’t have came down to two rookies in the OF botching a play in a game that should have never been tied to start with.
I have already expressed my opinion and given you scenarios how it could have worked. Lets move on.
Thats right a GM who focused on fixing the pen should have had a reliever to pitch the 7th and shut them down but because he didn’t and no one he acquired can be trusted with a nything less than a 4 run lead, Satna stayed in there! Probably FOUGHT to stayb in there because he is tired of pitching great games only to see the pen take the WIN or award him with a no decision!
NO ONE TRUSTS SANDY’s PEN! Not a single starter and now even Sandy has trust issues with it!
If you blame Santana then you need to blame the reason he was still in there!
So which position is Murphy going to play if he does what you propose?
Catcher or CF?
Or are you saying he should blow two bench spots in a tied game so he has to leave himself with no catcher and no pinch hitters later on?
As for Santana what he did was no worse than what was likely to happen if Ramirez or some other Pen arm went into the 7th!
So if you want to blame Santana blame the reason for not having something to replace him that would be any better than a pitcher with a high pitch count after pitching 7 innings and seeing the Lineup for the third time around!
Depends, did he pinch hit for Torres or for Little Nicky?
The only way he really could have hit for the catcher is if Rob was available so that one I can see. However, with Torres he had just put Kirk and Baxter into the game and taken out Vinny. Thus, CF was obviously covered already.
Also, I did not want Johan to come out. I wanted him to get through the 7th vs the worst offense maybe in baseball without wasting the 4 runs he was given.
Tell us your scenario for both!
Because both would leave you either short a player…one at catcher the other on the bench!
Alex should be in a great mood! The Marlins are doing much better these days…
You know, I know that Alex is a Mets fan. But sometimes the need on here for vindication makes me wonder if the Mets were going to not make the playoffs if Alex would just as soon they only win 69 games and the Marlins win it all just so he can gloat.
My question remains, why is it too early to judge the Mets win loss pace to say that 69 wins was wrong but it isn’t too early to call Alderson’s signings a bust?
Mikey, tuned in just in time to see Giancarlo Stanton to hit a BOMBED off of jamie moyer..
TRS86, 69 wins still in the driver seat… Giving the track records of the shi*** players sandy got the mets this past offseason (2 offseason in a row) what do you think it’s more likely to happen? 69 total wins or Mets making the playoffs?
Who said anything about the Mets making the playoffs? I said that they are on pace for a lot more than 69 wins. You say it’s early and you are still in the drivers seat for that to happen. If that is so then it’s still to early to judge all of the off-season moves. Again, just as the previous discussion. Hold conversations at least to your own standard.
Weren’t you JUST yesterday sayign how they were in the wild card lead or something??? So obviously YOU’RE THINKING playoffs for this team… No???
Also, i am the type of guy who if i’m wrong, i am wrong… I admit it. if the mets win more than 69 games i’d be the first one to admit how wrong i was.. Even if it’s 70.
No I am not thinking playoffs. I think it’s way to early to do that. I did not expect them going in and they are actually playing better than I expected. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s still to early to judge off-season predictions.
All I am saying is that if you believe that it’s too early to judge your 69 wins prediction then it is too early to judge the off-season signings.
This team is not good.