But the save and or game is still blown isn’t it?
This is why ERA fails to show just how bad a Reliever is at holding a team!

Try getting excited about the team. Regardless if you agree with the personnel moves by the dastardly Sandy Alderson who has doing nothing but sabotage. Cause, you know, that makes more sense.

As for your ERA talk it does not make any sense to juge a pitcher based on what might happen in 9 innings when he only pitches 1 per game at best!

His job is not to eat innings which is really what ERA is all about!
It is a pointless stat for a reliever because rarely does he ever pitch 9 innings in a game!
To show what he gives up per average in a game is much more credible because it also is an indicator of how often someone is getting on base per game and is credited with the run.
ERA also ignores UNEARNED runs. But there are lots of reasons a run is not earned by a pitcher but he still blows the save regardless of the run that loses the lead is earned or not doesn’t he?

This is why ERA is pointless ina discussion of Relief pitchers!
I know full well WHAT it is and what people think it says but it is not a good barometer for judging Relief pitchers!

Now that being said ERA is runs allowed per 9 innings pitched. RPG is more logical as runs per appearance I’d say. If it were truly runs per game you’d base it off a full game, 9 innings. Wait, that’s ERA. You can use your runs and hits per appearance. Others can focus on ERA and WHIP. Your claim that it’s more efficient is just that you prefer to look at it. Two different ways of analyzing the same data. But this isn’t the issue I decided to debate you on.

I said that on a budget Sandy filled three spots in the bullpen. Looking at who he chose to sign he obviously wanted to avoid losing games to injury as he avoided others with unfavorable injury histories.

So tell me again, who would you have brought in besides Rauch, Ramirez, and Francisco? Statistically there are better options, there almost always are. However, for the money spent, under $12 mil, and excluding those with lengthy history of injuries, which none of these guys have, who would you bring in? Keep in mind also that Sandy was looking at set up men and closers.

The goal of if a Pen is effecting is it’s affect on rns given up!
ERA works great for starters who pitch lots of inning but ERA is poor for guys who have low sample rates for inning becase they only get an inning a game!

So the Runs Per game metric is much more efficient and telling because it shows direct affect on the game not the inning he may pitch in!
Innings were not used at all in that metric…It was the Runs allowed divided by the game appearances!

Actually Jose Reyes is making $10million in 2012 and $10 million in 2013

Francisco is making 5.5 million this year and 6.5 next year

In both instances he is making more than $3mil per year than Francisco. But we already established you’re not good at baseball math

Like I said, as long as he’s healthy and willing to accept a team friendly contract I wouldn’t mind the Mets taking a flier here.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3746/mike-gonzalez

Historically Rauch is a dependable reliever who can pitch to both lefties and righties. He’s not going to light the world on fire, but he is solid enough.

For the record baseball reference has no contract info or stats for Gonzalez for 2012. Last note says that he was granted free agency in October. Also, a quick google search didn’t provide any further info for me. Not saying you’re wrong, just stating what I personally was able to find.

As stated with Lidge the recent injuries definitely played a factor. Also, when he signed the contract with Washington he stated he took the amount he did because he felt the Nationals were building something special and he wanted to be a part of it. Going into the season no one was saying that about the Mets. You can admit that at least can’t you? No one was expecting this good start and the most optimistic would have been hoping for .500 ball. Sure anything could happen, but odds weren’t in their favor. Also, in the small 2012 sample size Lidge is worse than Rauch and about on par with Ramirez. But like I have said, 2012 is a small sample. By the way, Lidge is on the DL again.

If Kerry Wood saying he would retire unless with the Cubs isn’t enough throw in his injury history as well. Can’t be overstated that Alderson seemed to avoid any substantial inuury history unless it was a very club friendly deal. So really there is no throwing enough money to convince him. Oh, Kerry is also on the DL.

I like that you’re still arguing Darren Oliver. I agreed bringing him back would be a good idea. All I meant when saying he was a specialist is that Alderson was focusing on set up and closing. Oliver didn’t fit what he was looking to add. I’ll say it again though, I’d like to have another lefty and Oliver would have been a great addition.

As for Dotel, Three teams are going to offer you the same contract going into 2012. Detroit, St. Louis, and the Mets. Financial terms being equal I pick the Tigers. Verlander, Cabrera, Fielder, and a division that they are easily projected to win. (Like I said this is in the offseason I’m aware they are tied for 2nd in the AL Central right now). It’s a better situation if I want a ring. that’s just stating facts. So yes, I think the Mets would have had to have paid more.

This has nothing to do with Reyes. So why are you bringing him up? It’s a totally different set of circumstances regarding keeping a home grown perennial All Star SS coming off a batting title and signing bullpen help. Though for the record, I agreed that the Marlins deal would not have made sense for the team at the time. With the Madoff court ruling still undecided. That also being said, Sandy not even making a formal offer is something I’ll never forgive him for. Who’s to say Reyes might not have had a change of heart and stayed if the offer was fair. Just the team showing he was important to the organization and was wanted may have been enough to keep him around. Looking at the 2012 stats letting him walk seems to be a good decision. Since you love your small sample 2012 stats I bet you love that move right Metsie?

Like I said, maybe the Mets can bring in Capps instead of Rauch or Francisco. That doesn’t equate to a much better bullpen though. It’d be roughly the same.

ERA is an average or runs/9 IP. So, by just dividing the number by 9 yes you can make a “new” stat that has exactly the same function. Thanks for revolutionizing the game. You’re obviously brilliant.

You also have to factor in that if Dotel(or anybody who has had closing experience) would have a better chance to close on the Mets than most other teams. So if you want to have a shot at being the closer, the Mets offer a better situation.

Cashman said he’ll no you want to pay less have to give me better players!”

And that differs from what I described in what way? Do I need to explain what “inversely proportional” means?

Dispute my stats with stats of your own…
I already told you why you stats based on IP is useless.
use any per game stat you want because thats the stat they affect with thier pitching.

If you can’t just be qiet like you usally do when you can’t answer what is put in front of you and your “You Must Be Crazy” act doesn’t work!

Show me where those stats are not the truth and do not properly show the amont of runs given up per game for those players!
I DARE YOU “Man who knows nothing unless it’s posted on baseball reference!?

For the record baseball reference has no contract info or stats for Gonzalez for 2012. Last note says that he was granted free agency in October. Also, a quick google search didn’t provide any further info for me. Not saying you’re wrong, just stating what I personally was able to find.

As stated with Lidge the recent injuries definitely played a factor. Also, when he signed the contract with Washington he stated he took the amount he did because he felt the Nationals were building something special and he wanted to be a part of it. Going into the season no one was saying that about the Mets. You can admit that at least can’t you? No one was expecting this good start and the most optimistic would have been hoping for .500 ball. Sure anything could happen, but odds weren’t in their favor. Also, in the small 2012 sample size Lidge is worse than Rauch and about on par with Ramirez. But like I have said, 2012 is a small sample. By the way, Lidge is on the DL again.

If Kerry Wood saying he would retire unless with the Cubs isn’t enough throw in his injury history as well. Can’t be overstated that Alderson seemed to avoid any substantial inuury history unless it was a very club friendly deal. So really there is no throwing enough money to convince him. Oh, Kerry is also on the DL.

I like that you’re still arguing Darren Oliver. I agreed bringing him back would be a good idea. All I meant when saying he was a specialist is that Alderson was focusing on set up and closing. Oliver didn’t fit what he was looking to add. I’ll say it again though, I’d like to have another lefty and Oliver would have been a great addition.

As for Dotel, Three teams are going to offer you the same contract going into 2012. Detroit, St. Louis, and the Mets. Financial terms being equal I pick the Tigers. Verlander, Cabrera, Fielder, and a division that they are easily projected to win. (Like I said this is in the offseason I’m aware they are tied for 2nd in the AL Central right now). It’s a better situation if I want a ring. that’s just stating facts. So yes, I think the Mets would have had to have paid more.

This has nothing to do with Reyes. So why are you bringing him up? It’s a totally different set of circumstances regarding keeping a home grown perennial All Star SS coming off a batting title and signing bullpen help. Though for the record, I agreed that the Marlins deal would not have made sense for the team at the time. With the Madoff court ruling still undecided. That also being said, Sandy not even making a formal offer is something I’ll never forgive him for. Who’s to say Reyes might not have had a change of heart and stayed if the offer was fair. Just the team showing he was important to the organization and was wanted may have been enough to keep him around. Looking at the 2012 stats letting him walk seems to be a good decision. Since you love your small sample 2012 stats I bet you love that move right Metsie?

Like I said, maybe the Mets can bring in Capps instead of Rauch or Francisco. That doesn’t equate to a much better bullpen though. It’d be roughly the same.

face it thats twice today I showed you empiracle evidence that you talk with your ass not your brains!
Once on what Cashman wanted from the Pirates and now your assertion that Rauch is historically good!

Maybe if you had the brains to calculate stats and not just look them up off a website you wouldn’t find youtrself in such predicaments!

Point is a BP arm comes in and his goal is to not allow the other side to score!
And the guys we have do allow at least one run every two games!

Which makes ERA pointless because it doesn’t matter how many innings it takes you to BLOW the lead, Neither does WHIP case it too is about IP not RUNS and your k/bb dsays nothing about hits and runs scored off them!

It’s just sabermetric claptrap that you deem important becase thats what is listed on a web site you get all you know from because you gys are too math challenged to see what the stats are about nor can you create a stat on your own!