29
2012
Thoughts On Johan…
An article by 
Mets ace Johan Santana received a no decision on April 24 against Miami in the Mets’ 2-1 come-from-behind victory against the Fish. Santana pitched 6.2 innings and allowed one run on three hits and recorded a season-high 11 strikeouts in his best start of the season. It was his 50th career double-digit strikeout game.
Continuing to get stronger as the season wears on, Santana tossed 105 pitches in his last game, the most he has tossed since August 22, 2010 at Pittsburgh when he threw 109 pitches. Brimming with confidence, the decision was made that on Sunday, Santana will pitch for the first time this season on the traditional four days of rest. Before today, he has gotten an extra day of rest between every start. “Everything has been fine and no problems,” the Mets left-hander said. “I’m ready to get back on the mound.”
Johan goes up against the ageless wonder Jaime Moyer, who at age 47 continues to pitch well for the Rockies and confounds the experts.
Santana has a perfect record against the Rockies in his career. In two career starts vs. Colorado, Santana is 2-0 with a 0.00 ERA in 16 innings pitched with 18 strikeouts. The last time he faced them in 2010, he spun a masterful four hit shutout.
It would seem a win today is written in the stars, but when has any victory come so easily for these Mets?
In four starts this season, the Mets have yet to score a single run for their come-back ace. It’s incredible to believe, but true enough and hardly surprising.
Going into this season who would have thought that scoring runs would be the biggest concern in a Johan Santana start?
It’s a testament to how far Santana has come and a reflection of his warrior’s mentality that makes him such a great competitor and the perfect pitcher to lead this rotation. I hope Sandy Alderson doesn’t do something stupid and trades him at the deadline. Our youngsters could gain so much from an ace like this.
Enjoy the game.
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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no keep santana, he will be great for us this year
I totally disagree. If we could get a top prospect for Santana like another Wheeler, the stupid thing would be not to do it.
Something to keep in mind here….
This is the first Start of Santana where he had a normal rest period.
Yes he pitched a lot in the last game but that was after a very short outing and extra days of rest.
This is the first start he has had with only 5 days of rest and it is an important start to me.
This will show us if he needs extra days inbetween or if he can continue to go past the 6th every 5 days. Not doing so doesn’t mean trouble but it will be an indication that maybe putting him on a 6 day pitching cycle is best for the short term.
I dont believe Santana is going anywhere. To get a top prospect would mean eating $40 million of his remaining $50 mil at least. That aint happening.
Would be nice if they actually scored a run or two for Johan today.
I hope Sandy Alderson doesn’t do something stupid and trades him at the deadline. Our youngsters could gain so much from an ace like this.
That is all kinds of wrong. First of all our young pitchers will pitch great depending on how good they are, not because we keep an albatross of a contract like Johan Santana around.
Second, by the time we’re ready to compete Santana will be useless to us so why not get something that will improve our chances in 2014?
I can see Sandy Alderson trading away Santana at the deadline especially if some team is willing to take a good portion of that contract. You forget we’re a moneyball team now, that’s what happens.
The Yankees refused to send Burnett to Pittsburgh until the Pirates took a big chunk of his salary.
Are they moneyball now?
Do you think the Oakland A’s are the only team that requires salary considerations in their trades?
Thats only because they were offerring crap in return!
You have it backwards. Players and salary taken on are inversely proportional. The Yankees were asking for lesser players specifically so the Pirates would take more money. If the Yanks paid the salary, they would have gotten better players.
So untrue but since when has the truth been your banner in the past?
The Pirates did not agree to give the Yanks what they wanted and cashman is on record as saying if they want us to pay more they have to make the package better!
Yankees wanted Jones and the Pirates said no!
Pirates offerred and finally gave up Moreno, and Cayones, not the guy the Yankees wanted!
http://ruthianclout.mlblogs.com/2012/02/15/pirates-deal-for-burnett-still-on-front-burner/
“Now the haggling is coming over what prospects the Pirates are willing to give up and to what extent those players change how much the Pirates will pay towards Burnett’s contract”
I have no idea what you are on about. They Yankees wanted cash and prospects. In those deals, ideally, the cash amount is inversely proportional to the perceived value of the prospects.
How is that different in what the Mets did with Beltran, Rodriguez or what some people are claiming will happen with Santana and Wright? (other than none of those players have been as bad as Burnett)
You have no idea what someone is talking about!
Well Damn! Stop the presses it’s a normal day!
The guy they wanted and were willing to pay 13 Mil of the salary for was denied by the pirates.
Pirates wanted to pay just 10 and give nothing!
Cashman said he’ll no you want to pay less have to give me better players!
“The guy they wanted and were willing to pay 13 Mil of the salary for was denied by the pirates.
Pirates wanted to pay just 10 and give nothing!
Cashman said he’ll no you want to pay less have to give me better players!”
And that differs from what I described in what way? Do I need to explain what “inversely proportional” means?
Real baseball is this guy’s fantasy and fantasy baseball is this guy’s reality.
Yeah what was fantasy about my stats Loser?
face it thats twice today I showed you empiracle evidence that you talk with your ass not your brains!
Once on what Cashman wanted from the Pirates and now your assertion that Rauch is historically good!
Maybe if you had the brains to calculate stats and not just look them up off a website you wouldn’t find youtrself in such predicaments!
You’ve shown NOTHING. You never show any evidence that anyone EVER agrees with or backs up. It’s just you against the world and the world always wins. Always. No matter who happens to speaking at the time, you always always always lose, and then claim you win because that’s the only thing you can possibly do. I win because I say so. You think the Pirates would have paid that much money off Burnett’s contract if they did trade Jones? Not even close. Fewer prospects = more money. More money = fewer prospects. That’s how baseball works. And nothing you can invent on the fly will ever eradicate proven baseball history, in this discussion or any other.
Your the only one that ever disagrees with my evidence you and your little click!
Dispute my stats with stats of your own…
I already told you why you stats based on IP is useless.
use any per game stat you want because thats the stat they affect with thier pitching.
If you can’t just be qiet like you usally do when you can’t answer what is put in front of you and your “You Must Be Crazy” act doesn’t work!
Show me where those stats are not the truth and do not properly show the amont of runs given up per game for those players!
I DARE YOU “Man who knows nothing unless it’s posted on baseball reference!?
Here’s the only stat you need to know. The Mets are 6-1 in one-run games. You know who’s generally responsible for winning or losing one-run games? Bullpens.
Yeah 6-1 in one run games that were 4 Run leads the Bullpen blew by giving up 3 runs or gave up the lead and got the win instead of the save!
You guys understand that the GM has to operate within a budget provided to him by the owners right? If the Wilpons decide they need to cut payroll Sandy can’t well say “I disagree and refuse to do so.” Moneyball is about finding great value in signing players to improve your team. With limited resources Sandy has been making the additions that he feels will most help the team with the funds/talent he has available. Can’t stand everyone hating on Sandy for being a moneyball guy. If anything that type of shrewd thinking is exactly what is needed in a time where you’re cutting payroll.
Yeah this great value was who exactly?
Francisco 7.71 ERA
Ramirez 5.40 ERA
Carrasco 6.02 ERA
Your right this isn’t moneyball…Moneyball tries to get GOOD value for it’s cheapness!
It’s still early in the season. Up until yesterday Francisco hadn’t blown a save. And even though he did at least he didn’t fall apart and lose the game. There’s something to be said for that.
Ramon Ramirez has been one of the better relievers in the game since about 2008. Add in the fact that he and Torres were received for Pagan, who obviously was not happy here last year, and it seems like this was a good move. The season is early, and if he settles down hopefully he’ll fall in line with his career stats putting up an ERA around 3.00 with a 1.20-ish WHIP. That would be a huge upgrade over last season.
So far Carrasco has been terrible for the Mets. Granted he had a few decent seasons before 2011, but hasn’t brought anything to the NYM of worth. However, for a two year 2.4 million dollar contract it was not a huge investment. Obviously you would have liked some production out of the guy. And right now he’s on the DL which certainly doesn’t help any.
So, let’s think of who else may have been brought in to close this year instead of Francisco.
Ryan Madson signed an $11 million contract, double Francisco’s 2012 salary, and promptly was lost for the season due to injury.
Heath Bell signed a 4 year $33 million deal that keeps him under contract until he is 38 years old. Yes, this season he only makes half a million more than Francisco, ($6 million to $5.5 million), but the last three years all escalate to $9 million a season. Which for an aging closer on a cash strapped team may not be so great. And since you love small sample sizes here are his 2012 stats : 5.2 IP, 9.53 ERA, 2.824 WHIP.
Papelbon signed a 4 year $50 million deal, with a $13 million option for 2016. Way out of the Mets price range.
Trade for Huston Street maybe? 2 years, $16.5 million. Not to mention his injury history. Just wouldn’t fit the budget conscious Mets.
So, how about some credit where credit is now due?
Alderson signed Chris Young. who was lights out before injury last year with a team friendly deal. And brought him back this year for some roatation depth that was needed. He should be ready within the next few weeks to contribute barring a set back. (24 IP, 1.88 ERA, .958 WHIP, for a $1.1 million contract in 2011)
Chris Capuano came in with a solid season last year. $1.5 million for a 186 IP, 4.55 ERA, 1.349 WHIP. For the cost a solid investment. He signed a 2 year $9 million dollar contract with the Dodgers with a third year option. With the team being on a budget and Santana coming back they let him walk. Which is yet another thing you can’t be too upset over. We had a full rotation. And while you can make an argument for keeping him over Pelfrey or Gee in the roatation they were younger and, up until this season in Pelfrey’s case, healthier options.
Tim Byrdak has been a reliable lefty specialist out of the pen. All for the low price of $1.9 million for 2011 and 2012.
For $1.3 million Paulino was a solid backup/platoon catcher last year.
The trade of Beltran saved some money for 2011 and provided blue chip prospect Zack Wheeler.
The K-Rod trade, while not netting prospects got the team out from under a contract that would have hampered their financial flexibility for the 2012 season.
(Keep in mind that both of these moves occurred before the Madoff case was settled and the financial outlook was bleak.)
Mike Baxter was a waiver pickup making $400k. He’s turning into a great bat off the bench this season.
For $3.5 million Jon Rauch has looked pretty good so far this year.
Not as bad a job as you seem to think pal.
Not a lot to be said quite honestly…
Ramirez has not been a great BP arm the last few years…I showed this in another thread about yesterdays game.
francisco has lost the closer job as often as he has gotten it!
Rauch has not put up great numbers either, You don’t judhge a reliever by his ERA you judge him based on how many runs and hits he gives up per game!
So what’s your alternative? Between Rauch, Ramirez, and Francisco you have $11.65 to fill three bullpen slots in 2012. Make it work. I hear a lot of complaining, but no actual thought on what could have been done. I think given the budget constraints he did the best he could.
And Metsie to quote you from that other post, “…only so far he has not pitched to that history since coming to us! (2012 RPG .250, HPG .416 so…so far so good!”
Thanks for contradicting yourself.
That quote being in regards to Rauch obviously.
As far as the rauch quote all I really said is currently he is doing better than he has historically. And History bit him in the ass yesterday!
here is your list:
Lidge 1M/1Y
M Gonzales 750K Two Years of Arb
D Oliver 4M with 500K Option next year
M Capps 4M w/ 250K Option
K Wood 2M with Team Option in 2013
Dotel 3M 500K option
Broxton 4M/1Y
Cordero 4.5M/1Y
Total Expenditure if we signed ALL = about 20 Mil…
Feel free to pick which ones you like from that group up to what we spent and tell me there was nothing but these guys!
Metsie, “…As far as the rauch quote all I really said is currently he is doing better than he has historically.” That’s all I said as well. Nice we agree. And yes, yesterday was a rough outing. However, he was a borderline call from getting out of that inning as well.
Lidge is coming off a series of injuries and so far possess a 5.14 ERA and 2.000 WHIP in 7 IP.
Gonzales also has an extensive injury history. I guess you could say he had a moderate amount of success in 2011 but really was nothing to write home about. He also isn’t even on a roster right now. Is he retired? Considering he’s a lefty and only 33 years old has me thinking he might even be currently injured.
Darren Oliver is a lefty specialist, though we can all agree the team could use another lefty in the pen.
Matt Capps really isn’t doing much better than who we have, (2012 8.0 IP, 5.63 ERA, 1.250 WHIP).
Kerry Wood made it known that if he wasn’t back with the Cubs he was going to retire. He also happens to have a 11.57 ERA and 2.571 WHIP in 2.1 IP this year.
Dotel is pitching great, but he’s not coming to the Mets unless they grossly overpay for his services. With the outlook for the Mets being what it was during the offseason and the Cardinals and Tigers vying for his services, coupled with his age, he’s going to a contender.
Broxton is another guy coming off of injuries. He is having a good season so far as well though.
Francisco Cordero, another guy not outperforming current guys really. 10 IP, 5.40 ERA, 1.80 WHIP.
I think injuries were a key factor in who Sandy brought in. He didn’t want payroll to go to waste if a guy wasn’t going to be able to pitch considering the limitations. This takes out Broxton, who yes is pitching well, and Lidge, who really isn’t so far.
Admitting that yes, Oliver would have been a nice addition if for nothing else being a lefty (though still a productive one to clarify). Gonzales, if healthy and still looking to play, as a lefty would be worth a flier (depending on cost, he still made $6 million last season and the injury history is extensive).
Cordero kept holding out for a big deal that never came. Yes he ended up signing on the cheap, but Sandy wanted the bullpen settled and made his moves early. At the time Cordero was out of their price range. He had better offers from the Reds, reportedly 2 yr $12 mil and 1 yr $7 mil, but declined them while seeking a bigger deal. The only thing you can possibly say is Sandy should have waited out the market for him. However, waiting until February, he signed 2/1/12, if he missed out the Mets are left with few options at that point.
This leaves us with Matt Capps.
Frank Francisco 2011: 50.2 IP, 3.55 ERA, 1.322 WHIP
Ramon Ramirez 2011: 68.2 IP, 2.62 ERA, 1.165 WHIP
Jon Rauch 2011: 52.0 IP, 4.85 ERA, 1.346 WHIP
Matt Capps 2011: 65.2 IP, 4.25 ERA, 1.203 WHIP
Coming off of last year you couldn’t say Capps was substantially better. The biggest plus is that he’s the youngest of the group at 28; Francisco is 32, Ramirez is 30, Rauch is 33.
It’s way to early to judge RP’s by numbers. These guys have only thrown about 7 innings.
Especially he is looking at ERA and not RAPG or HAPG
Thats the important stat not what they might give up in 9 innings because the truth of the matter is a guy like Francisco who gives up 1 RPG is hurting just about every game he gets into!
You do know how ERA and WHIP are calculated, right?
yep and I know giving up a run in a game is more important to the game’s chances of winning than how many innings it took to give it up!
But when you realize ERA is an average and that any run given up by a closer will drive it up higher than a starter, you will realize how your statements are pretty circular.
Yes Gonzalez is on a roster (I misplelled his name) he is with texas.
Lidge’s ERA is still better than the gys we have and at a third of the price.
Oliver may be a lefty specialist but that doesn’t mean he could be more effective than the gys we have.
Kerry Wood may have said that but for the right price you never know!
As for Dotel I still can’t get why everyone thinks the Mets have to overpay to get someone who signed for the price he is at, I mean really Reyes and Dotel (plus others) all are given the excuse we had to pay a premium compared to someone else. I don’t see any truth to that!
As for Rauch the point is he was taken based on his history and unless there was some MiSs Cleo or someone from the future who knew he was going to start this way they still decided his HISTORY was not important and granted he had a fast start but will it hold or does he go back to what his history says he is!
History says Rauch is a very solid, very dependable relief pitcher with no real disparity in his platoon splits.
History says no such thing….
K-Rod – RPG .330 HPG .775 (2012 RPG .583 HPG .833)
Byrdak – RPG .387 HPG .680 (2012 RPG .272 HPG .454)
Ramirez – RPG .405 HPG .862 (2012 RPG .818 HPG 1.454)
Francisco – RPG .450 HPG .870 (2012 RPG .900 HPG 1.300)
Rauch – RPG .497 HPG 1.03 (2012 RPG .250, HPG .416)
In fact his history is worse than the other only his performance this year has been better than all so far.
“Stats” (and I use that term loosely) that you invent on the fly to fit your agenda don’t matter to me or anyone else. I’ll take the guy who’s ERA has only been above 3.60 twice in his career with a 1.24 WHIP and a 2.59 K/BB that some guy who satisfies Metsie’s spelling bee qualifications.
Yeah Stats I calculated to make my point, too bad the boys from the bad math class can’t make thier points without BR doing all the math for you!
Point is a BP arm comes in and his goal is to not allow the other side to score!
And the guys we have do allow at least one run every two games!
Which makes ERA pointless because it doesn’t matter how many innings it takes you to BLOW the lead, Neither does WHIP case it too is about IP not RUNS and your k/bb dsays nothing about hits and runs scored off them!
It’s just sabermetric claptrap that you deem important becase thats what is listed on a web site you get all you know from because you gys are too math challenged to see what the stats are about nor can you create a stat on your own!
Dear Metsie,
ERA is an average or runs/9 IP. So, by just dividing the number by 9 yes you can make a “new” stat that has exactly the same function. Thanks for revolutionizing the game. You’re obviously brilliant.
*Wanted the response in line with the rest of the conversation. Sorry for the double post*
Historically Rauch is a dependable reliever who can pitch to both lefties and righties. He’s not going to light the world on fire, but he is solid enough.
For the record baseball reference has no contract info or stats for Gonzalez for 2012. Last note says that he was granted free agency in October. Also, a quick google search didn’t provide any further info for me. Not saying you’re wrong, just stating what I personally was able to find.
As stated with Lidge the recent injuries definitely played a factor. Also, when he signed the contract with Washington he stated he took the amount he did because he felt the Nationals were building something special and he wanted to be a part of it. Going into the season no one was saying that about the Mets. You can admit that at least can’t you? No one was expecting this good start and the most optimistic would have been hoping for .500 ball. Sure anything could happen, but odds weren’t in their favor. Also, in the small 2012 sample size Lidge is worse than Rauch and about on par with Ramirez. But like I have said, 2012 is a small sample. By the way, Lidge is on the DL again.
If Kerry Wood saying he would retire unless with the Cubs isn’t enough throw in his injury history as well. Can’t be overstated that Alderson seemed to avoid any substantial inuury history unless it was a very club friendly deal. So really there is no throwing enough money to convince him. Oh, Kerry is also on the DL.
I like that you’re still arguing Darren Oliver. I agreed bringing him back would be a good idea. All I meant when saying he was a specialist is that Alderson was focusing on set up and closing. Oliver didn’t fit what he was looking to add. I’ll say it again though, I’d like to have another lefty and Oliver would have been a great addition.
As for Dotel, Three teams are going to offer you the same contract going into 2012. Detroit, St. Louis, and the Mets. Financial terms being equal I pick the Tigers. Verlander, Cabrera, Fielder, and a division that they are easily projected to win. (Like I said this is in the offseason I’m aware they are tied for 2nd in the AL Central right now). It’s a better situation if I want a ring. that’s just stating facts. So yes, I think the Mets would have had to have paid more.
This has nothing to do with Reyes. So why are you bringing him up? It’s a totally different set of circumstances regarding keeping a home grown perennial All Star SS coming off a batting title and signing bullpen help. Though for the record, I agreed that the Marlins deal would not have made sense for the team at the time. With the Madoff court ruling still undecided. That also being said, Sandy not even making a formal offer is something I’ll never forgive him for. Who’s to say Reyes might not have had a change of heart and stayed if the offer was fair. Just the team showing he was important to the organization and was wanted may have been enough to keep him around. Looking at the 2012 stats letting him walk seems to be a good decision. Since you love your small sample 2012 stats I bet you love that move right Metsie?
Like I said, maybe the Mets can bring in Capps instead of Rauch or Francisco. That doesn’t equate to a much better bullpen though. It’d be roughly the same.
Sane…Your method only works based off the pitcher getting 9 innings.
Doesn’t tell you how those runs affected any given game!
The goal of if a Pen is effecting is it’s affect on rns given up!
ERA works great for starters who pitch lots of inning but ERA is poor for guys who have low sample rates for inning becase they only get an inning a game!
So the Runs Per game metric is much more efficient and telling because it shows direct affect on the game not the inning he may pitch in!
Innings were not used at all in that metric…It was the Runs allowed divided by the game appearances!
Metsie, I’d like to congratulate you on one thing. I guess you couldn’t provide a reasonable argument on the remaining players so you did respond purely in regards to your statistical choice.
Now that being said ERA is runs allowed per 9 innings pitched. RPG is more logical as runs per appearance I’d say. If it were truly runs per game you’d base it off a full game, 9 innings. Wait, that’s ERA. You can use your runs and hits per appearance. Others can focus on ERA and WHIP. Your claim that it’s more efficient is just that you prefer to look at it. Two different ways of analyzing the same data. But this isn’t the issue I decided to debate you on.
I said that on a budget Sandy filled three spots in the bullpen. Looking at who he chose to sign he obviously wanted to avoid losing games to injury as he avoided others with unfavorable injury histories.
So tell me again, who would you have brought in besides Rauch, Ramirez, and Francisco? Statistically there are better options, there almost always are. However, for the money spent, under $12 mil, and excluding those with lengthy history of injuries, which none of these guys have, who would you bring in? Keep in mind also that Sandy was looking at set up men and closers.
No Sane I didn’t respond about the rest because I find the subject coulda shoulda wolda when the point is there were plenty of better and cheaper options available and while it might seem fun to play coulda woulda the only point that is relevant is what Sandy thoght to bring in and how well that decision is doing!
As for your ERA talk it does not make any sense to juge a pitcher based on what might happen in 9 innings when he only pitches 1 per game at best!
His job is not to eat innings which is really what ERA is all about!
It is a pointless stat for a reliever because rarely does he ever pitch 9 innings in a game!
To show what he gives up per average in a game is much more credible because it also is an indicator of how often someone is getting on base per game and is credited with the run.
ERA also ignores UNEARNED runs. But there are lots of reasons a run is not earned by a pitcher but he still blows the save regardless of the run that loses the lead is earned or not doesn’t he?
This is why ERA is pointless ina discussion of Relief pitchers!
I know full well WHAT it is and what people think it says but it is not a good barometer for judging Relief pitchers!
Oh, cool. Let’s blame pitchers for unearned runs. Brilliant. I understand though, you played coulda, woulda, shoulda, until you realized you had no argument. That’s fine. I’m glad you and you’re super complicated math that no one else could conceive of since you’re on such a higher level have fun doing whatever it is that you do.
Try getting excited about the team. Regardless if you agree with the personnel moves by the dastardly Sandy Alderson who has doing nothing but sabotage. Cause, you know, that makes more sense.
Yep because they had to have either put a guy on base that an error scored or an error did that a hit given up by the pitcher scored instead!
But the save and or game is still blown isn’t it?
This is why ERA fails to show just how bad a Reliever is at holding a team!
Metsie, I finally found something on Gonzalez by the way. He turned down a minor league contract from the Rangers in Spring Training. He’s currently a free agent. He worked out for the Reds about a month ago. The Red Sox are said to be interested as well. According to Scott Boras, Gonzalez’ agent, he expects him to sign with a team relatively soon.
Like I said, as long as he’s healthy and willing to accept a team friendly contract I wouldn’t mind the Mets taking a flier here.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3746/mike-gonzalez
Metsie: Nice bullpen stats. So then if you’re using their ERA’s today to justify why SA shouldn’t have signed them to a contract… does that mean I can say
Jose Reyes .205, he was right to not “make an offer.”
Or does it only work with some players? Like the bullpen spending on 3 guys less than it would cost to have kept KRod is a bad idea because they are struggling…. but signing Reyes to 6 years 100+ million is still a good idea even though he’s hitting like a AAA player?
Sure you can…Provided you note the HISTORY of the player as well as I did!
You see you have no historical performance to say reyes is no good jst what he did this year!
I have showed the historical reasons why he should not have gotten the BP he did and it wold appear they are following thier history!
Lets see where Reyes winds up as well shall we?
Oh and in case you forgot…
Reyes only makes 3 Mil more than Francisco this year and Next!
With no limitations on trading him in the year he makes 16 Mil and the two he makes 22 Mil!
“Reyes only makes 3 Mil more than Francisco this year and Next!”
Actually Jose Reyes is making $10million in 2012 and $10 million in 2013
Francisco is making 5.5 million this year and 6.5 next year
In both instances he is making more than $3mil per year than Francisco. But we already established you’re not good at baseball math
” I hope Sandy Alderson doesn’t do something stupid and trades him at the deadline. Our youngsters could gain so much from an ace like this.”
Joe, Alderson’s job is to do what he sees as best for the Mets. If some other team comes with an over the top offer (either a boatload of near ML ready prospects or eating most of the money) it is his responsibility to see such a deal through.
Historically Rauch is a dependable reliever who can pitch to both lefties and righties. He’s not going to light the world on fire, but he is solid enough.
For the record baseball reference has no contract info or stats for Gonzalez for 2012. Last note says that he was granted free agency in October. Also, a quick google search didn’t provide any further info for me. Not saying you’re wrong, just stating what I personally was able to find.
As stated with Lidge the recent injuries definitely played a factor. Also, when he signed the contract with Washington he stated he took the amount he did because he felt the Nationals were building something special and he wanted to be a part of it. Going into the season no one was saying that about the Mets. You can admit that at least can’t you? No one was expecting this good start and the most optimistic would have been hoping for .500 ball. Sure anything could happen, but odds weren’t in their favor. Also, in the small 2012 sample size Lidge is worse than Rauch and about on par with Ramirez. But like I have said, 2012 is a small sample. By the way, Lidge is on the DL again.
If Kerry Wood saying he would retire unless with the Cubs isn’t enough throw in his injury history as well. Can’t be overstated that Alderson seemed to avoid any substantial inuury history unless it was a very club friendly deal. So really there is no throwing enough money to convince him. Oh, Kerry is also on the DL.
I like that you’re still arguing Darren Oliver. I agreed bringing him back would be a good idea. All I meant when saying he was a specialist is that Alderson was focusing on set up and closing. Oliver didn’t fit what he was looking to add. I’ll say it again though, I’d like to have another lefty and Oliver would have been a great addition.
As for Dotel, Three teams are going to offer you the same contract going into 2012. Detroit, St. Louis, and the Mets. Financial terms being equal I pick the Tigers. Verlander, Cabrera, Fielder, and a division that they are easily projected to win. (Like I said this is in the offseason I’m aware they are tied for 2nd in the AL Central right now). It’s a better situation if I want a ring. that’s just stating facts. So yes, I think the Mets would have had to have paid more.
This has nothing to do with Reyes. So why are you bringing him up? It’s a totally different set of circumstances regarding keeping a home grown perennial All Star SS coming off a batting title and signing bullpen help. Though for the record, I agreed that the Marlins deal would not have made sense for the team at the time. With the Madoff court ruling still undecided. That also being said, Sandy not even making a formal offer is something I’ll never forgive him for. Who’s to say Reyes might not have had a change of heart and stayed if the offer was fair. Just the team showing he was important to the organization and was wanted may have been enough to keep him around. Looking at the 2012 stats letting him walk seems to be a good decision. Since you love your small sample 2012 stats I bet you love that move right Metsie?
Like I said, maybe the Mets can bring in Capps instead of Rauch or Francisco. That doesn’t equate to a much better bullpen though. It’d be roughly the same.
“It’s a better situation if I want a ring.”
You also have to factor in that if Dotel(or anybody who has had closing experience) would have a better chance to close on the Mets than most other teams. So if you want to have a shot at being the closer, the Mets offer a better situation.
OK, but Dotel hasn’t been a closer for a few years. He also wasn’t always a closer. He’s bounced back and forth from closing and setting up pretty much his whole career with success in both roles. For some people it might be important to close and get the stats. For others it may be about winning. At 38 and most likely not getting another big pay day I assume he’d want to win. Maybe I’m wrong.