22
2012
Prospect Pulse: Familia Answers Critics
An article by 
Over the last two weeks I have seen my fill of criticism about Jeurys Familia. For some reason it seems as if Mets fans and bloggers want this guy to fail. Either that, or they are just trying to make themselves look smart by pointing out his short-comings, and predicting limited success for him as a major league prospect. The negative sooth-sayers are predicting at-best that Family will have to be moved to the bullpen, due to a lack of quality secondary offerings. At-worst they are saying that he is “greatly over-rated” by people such as myself, and is not nearly the prospect that I/we have made him out to be.
NEWS FLASH: There has been a “Familia sighting” over Syracuse, NY, and the specter was not a welcome sight for International League opponents of the Bisons. Familia, pitching game one of Sunday’s double-header, did not even resemble the pitcher who had made three starts so far this year while wearing number 28 for Buffalo. The guy wearing number 28 on Sunday was dominant and unpredictable, and drove the Chiefs line-up to distraction while trying to figure him out.
In five innings of work in a 6-1 Bison victory, he only allowed one serious hit, to some guy by the name of Bryce Harper. Harper, the number one prospect in the minor leagues, drilled his first AAA homer on a 3-2 pitch to deep right-center field in the 4th inning. Other than that Family had the Chiefs by the baseballs. His line on the day: 5 IP, 4 hits, 1 run, 3 BB’s, 8 K’s, while improving his record to 2-1.
After having struggled mightily in his first three starts to consistently throw strikes, Family only had one or two brief stints of wildness on Sunday, most notably right after Harper’s home run, when he walked the next batter on four straight pitches. But he worked through it each time and was able to get himself back on-track. For the day he threw 93 pitches and 56 of them were for strikes.
Familia worked off his two and four-seam fastballs, while mixing in an effective off-speed pitch that locked up hitters for called third strikes on more than one occasion. His four-seamer was thrown about 93 mph, and topped out at 95 with a little arm side run. The two-seamer was his most effective pitch by far, thrown in the 92-93 mph range, with significant sink and arm-side break.
The breaking ball he used the most appeared to be a curve-ball at around 80-82 mph. It was uneven in it’s break, and he left a couple of them elevated, but for the most part the pitch was effective at keeping the hitters off-balance. The fact that he was able to get his off-speed stuff over for strikes meant that the hitters couldn’t just sit on the fastball. I believe I saw him throw a couple of change-ups too. They were at around the same speed as his off-speed pitches, around 82 mph, but showed some late fade and arm-side run.
One of the most impressive things about Familia’s performance on Sunday, was the way he changed speeds and location from pitch to pitch. He was very hard to predict and had the hitters guessing, and guessing wrong. No two pitches in a row were the same speed, or the same eye level, or the same part of the zone.
At one point in the game, when Familia was striking out six-out-of-seven hitters, he seemed completely untouchable. Batters were going down on three pitches left and right, some barely waving at the ball. It was just a glimpse at this guy’s potential, and believe me the future looks bright for the 6’4″ 230 lb. 22-year-old.
No doubt, the breaking ball still needs work, and he must be able to command the pitch better. Actually command is the name-of-the-game for all his pitches right now, but when one considers how far he has come in that regard over the last several years, then one can imagine how much more he will progress with a full year at AAA.
The idea of banishing him to the bullpen in the near future, is completely asinine. He has a promising and expanding repertoire of pitches, and should definitely improve his breaking stuff enough to be able to compete in a big-league rotation. Additionally the kid is a horse, very strong, with a powerful core and lower-half. He should prove to be very durable as a starter, with good stamina, and could one day become a workhorse in the rotation. When he fine tunes a put-away pitch, enabling him to be more economical, it will help him last longer into games.
In the meantime, he’s only 22, and pitching in his first season at AAA. It’s April right now, and this year is going to be huge for his development. So before we decide that he’ll never make it as a big-league starting pitcher, could we at least see what happens with him this year? And perhaps with continued development on his part, we’ll see him making starts for the Mets in September, and then we can all judge what we’ve got in Familia, with our own eyes.
About the Author: Peter Shapiro
The first time I went to Shea was not for a Mets game, it was for the Beatles concert there in August of '66. My first Met game was '67, a guy named Salty Parker was the interim-manager then. My first pennant race was 1969. As a 12 year-old that summer and fall, I managed to get to the park for 3 games. The first was the beginning of the Miracle which actually started on Tuesday July 8, 1969 with a day game against the Cubs. I was there a lot in '73. I saw games 3 & 5 of the 1973 NL Playoffs against the "Big Red Machine", from the upper deck behind home plate. It was from there that I witnessed the fight between Bud Harrelson and Pete Rose, and the mayhem that ensued. And that sweet victory in game 5! I saw a couple of WS games at Shea that year against that legendary Oakland A's club. I was there in 1985 for every single game Dr. K pitched including his two 16 strikeout performances, and the day he one-hit the Cubs on an infield single and the Mets won 1-0. I loved being a Met fan in those days. Hopefully we are once again preparing to emerge from the darkness.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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It always seemed premature (and a bit tainted with met bashing) to have proclaimed Familia as a pen arm so young. A guy with his stuff, and build, is designed to be a SP horse.
so, you let him start to get as many innings as possible to develop his pitches, work on control, etc.
If he ends up in the pen, it shouldn’t be for years yet and until he proves he can’t cut it as a starter.
I’m with you Pete
And I think most of the criticism has less to do with Familia himself and just agendaized moaning because they need to make Wheeler sound like he was desperatly needed!
And it does seem that anyone not destined to be a Cy Young winner is a scrub according to a certain set of individuals!
I agree there are those out there who want to praise Sandy and bury Omar and who knows if that extends to bashing Familia or any other prospect just to make Wheeler (i.e., Sandy) look good. We also, however, have to watch that in our own selves – us who are not in the Alderson camp at this point in time – that we too don’t get overzealous and look for any little thing to knock Wheeler to prove that Sandy is either an over-rated general manager or not really a general manager as far as player personnel is concerned.
In short, let’s be aware of our own shortcomings and don’t look for Wheeler to fail just to prove how bad Alderson might be.
I haven’t seen even one person start to bash Harvey or Familia to make Sandy look better. That seems to only apply the other direction.
You must’ve not been paying attention… Wheeler was the second coming and brandon nimmo was already pegged the best player in mets history..
OK and at what point did they say that Harvey and Familia stunk to make those guys look better?
Oh no, some Mets fans were excited about prospects… damn them.
Actually TRS long before Sandy ever got here people were slamming this MiL system and ignoring guys like Harvey and Familia all so they could justify ripping this team apart!
Not even Sandy agreed with them apparently!
That’s just normal hate though, not something with an agenda to prove this stupid Omar vs Sandy debate.
and I never said it was Omar vs Sandy that was suggested by others!
That’s why I replied to Joey instead of yours
LOL we’re cool dude!
Joey I wasn’t referring to the Sandy folks at all…
I was referring to the folks who even before Sandy was named GM insisted the team should be ripped apart, slate cleaned, and start from square one because the Minors were a shambles, The team was incapable of being supplemented enough to win etc etc…
Wheeler is the one move you can say Sandy did alright in.
Its the rest of them I have a bit of issue with.
But the Wheeler deal is the one that the TEAR DOWNERS used to justify the tear down…
Now true some of the Sandy folks are in that group but the agenda I referred to had nothing directly to do with Sandy!
Honestly, I have no idea what Familia’s development has to do with Wheeler’s.
I haven’t seen too many fans who follow the minor league prospects even remotely give up on Familia yet. Only some have discussed the possibility of him not making it as a starter. IMO, he should be given every opportunity to prove he can or cannot make it as a starter in the bigs.
I read this post twice. Where does the author say anything about Omar Minaya, Sandy Alderson and Wheeler? The critics he is referring to are the ones who have said and still say Familia’s future is in the bullpen. I think you need a course in reading comprehension.
Bingo, just another terrible attempt by some to turn every debate into the same thing. Sandy vs. Omar or Wright vs Reyes.
I feel sorry for the authors sometimes because every post turns into the same crap.
You can always go back to your little desert blog…
Hey the more you keep advertising it the better it gets. Again, I am planning on signing you to a contract. You are 2nd to Sportsypder in referrals!
This has nothing to do with my blog at all. It’s about how this author gave valuable information on a Mets prospect, good non-biased info and something to be excited about and it turns into the same thing.
FWIT,
Since it was suggested some Sandy supporters might be knocking Familia to praise Sandy under the guise of Wheeler, my response was only to remind those not in Sandy’s camp (including me) to be aware of our own shortcomings and therefore not to do the same with Zach just to score points against Sandy. As you know, I was against the Beltran trade (bringing that up for reference purposes, only) but that doesn’t mean those with my opinion also have to be against Zach Wheeler.
I’m sure there are those on both sides of the fence guilty of doing just that.
I’ve said this again and again, i love familia, and i think he’d be a great asset to the team SP, he only began pitching about 5 years ago, so he still developing as a Starter, already the mets front office are the ones who wanna put familia in the bullpen, somehow they are not conviced that he’d be a starter. I hope this kid proves everyone wrong. He is a little wild but his stuff is good enough to be the best out of the 3 pack of wheeler, harvey and him..
Lets just hope 3-4 years from now there is a heated debate over which of the 4 young hopeful studs are the best pitchers on the Mets MLB team.
If the front office wanted Familia in the bullpen, then he’d be there, not starting in AAA of all places. Can you link us to the article or quote from the Mets that shows they view Familia as a reliever, or did you invent that scenario?
I haven’t heard any in the Mets organization say that about him just some scouts from various publications or other organizations.
Of course you haven’t heard heard anything about it because it never happened. If the Mets wanted Familia as a reliever, why is he starting in AAA? Makes no sense. Just another attempt to start a flame war.
You mean like how Sandy was desperately TRYING to trade Niese in the fall?
That literally made me laugh out loud, the reaction of the people who were all up in arms that the Mets were trying to trade Niese.
After seeing him pitch this year, now you know why people like me were “all up in arms” about the Niese trade rumors.
I laughed out loud how people took it seriously. They really thought Sandy was trying to trade Niese.
I am looking for that article on the daily news where i read that about familia… They were going the same route they went with mejia… Hang on give me more time to see if i find it… But i am certain i read mets scouts belive he is destined to be a bullpen guy..
Depo said the following about Harvey and Familia:
“”The guys who have that potential, we really want to make sure that those guys are ready to have some success when they get up here,” DePodesta said. “You don’t want these guys bouncing back and forth for two or three years. You want these guys to come up and stake their claim in the rotation and never leave.”"
Also saying this: “A guy like (right-hander) Jeurys Familia, he has a chance to be a big-time guy, and probably hasn’t gotten at least that type of attention.”
Again, i LOVE FAMILIA, what part of that you don’t get??? BUT there have been many who think he’s better fit for the bullpen, including our own MANIAC from MMO, some mets scouts also believe so… What exactly am i saying that offended you or prompt you to get your panties in a bunch eh??
You find me even one quote where a Mets employee, even a hot dog vendor, said Familia is best suited for the pen and I’ll apologize.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/03/harvey-and-familia-told-theyre-going-to-the-minors.html
Someone in the “Hierarchy” obviously said it!
So universally in the Mets hierarchy they believe Familia MIGHT be a reliever? LOL. Yet when you read quotes from Depo he says differently and he is starting in AAA. Lets believe this strangely worded sentence over actual quotes and actions.
“So if Dickey ever needs to be a reliever in a game would you do it”?
“Sure but right now Dickey is one of our best starters and there would be no reason to do that”
Translated:
Mets hierarchy are sure they would use Dickey in relief….( if needed).
Do you have a quote from DePo?
No?
Then why are we even bringing that up?
Perhaps DePo is the one guy in the FO who thinks otherwise and the rest all think he is just a reliever?
And it was someone else in the organization who leaked it because he got overruled temporarily?
All Leaks from official sources have a reason behind them!
It’s the politics of the situation!
Trade Rumors especially! Most are either leaked by the home team to judge fan opinion or by the other trade partner to try and put pressure by getting out what they are willing to give up to get the guy and hoping the fans say do it!
Sometimes leaks are made due to two sides of an issue and one being overruled.
Sometimes they happen for pure misinformation
and sometimes they happen to send a message which is what I think the Wright and Niese deals were leaked for!
We all know Sandy came right out to say reyes had to prove his worth. Was there really any need to say that at all?
Nope it was a message to reyes as clear as day!
““You don’t want these guys bouncing back and forth for two or three years. You want these guys to come up and stake their claim in the rotation and never leave.” In reference to Harvey and Familia.
I will believe that direct quote over some strangely worded sentence that doesn’t even have to imply that they believe that at all.
Also if Depo believes otherwise wouldn’t that shoot down the “universal belief in the Mets hierarchy”?
No! simply because DePo doesn’t make the final decisions and until you show what Sandy thinks DePo could be the minority opinion on the matter!
Obviously there is some concern about his ability to start or there would not be high up sources saying otherwise!
Perhaps Riccardi thinks Familia is just a pen arm, Perhaps it’s Sandy himself.
Perhaps it is the head of scouting and perhaps it is just Warthen…
Until you can say WHO it was that feels otherwise you can’t say DePo speaks for the majority or will be the one who makes the final decision.
He is just ONE VOICE is the chorus of the HIERARCHY!
How much weight he holds is in his ability to convince Sandy he is right!
You keep arguing that the statement is false but all you can tell from what DePo said is it probably wasn’t him who thinks that….
OR,
Maybe it WAS him and since he was quoted directly in your case was making an OFFICIAL statement that he did not agree with and then made an OFF THE RECORD statement to sherman about what he REALLY feels!
That happens ALL the time you know!
Official says ” Official Statement!”
Off the record what I feel is ” balh blah blah!”
The only thing that matters at all right now is that he is anchoring the starting rotation in AAA, and rolling out every 5 days. Actions speak way louder than words.
If you wake up one day to find out that they moved him to the pen and are having him close games instead, that would indicate they consider him a RP.
Would you like for me to act like an idiot and give you the definition of “universal”?
“Universal belief” in regards to Hierarchy simply means MOST in the Heirarchy believe that!
u·ni·ver·sal (yn-vûrsl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, extending to, or affecting the entire world or all within the world; worldwide: “This discovery of literature has as yet only partially penetrated the universal consciousness” (Ellen Key).
2. Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration: the universal skepticism of philosophers. See Synonyms at general.
3. Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations: a universal remedy.
4. Of or relating to the universe or cosmos; cosmic.
5. Knowledgeable about or constituting all or many subjects; comprehensively broad.
6. Adapted or adjustable to many sizes or mechanical uses.
7. Logic Encompassing all of the members of a class or group. Used of a proposition.
n.
1. Logic
a. A universal proposition.
b. A general or abstract concept or term considered absolute or axiomatic.
2. A general or widely held principle, concept, or notion.
3. A trait or pattern of behavior characteristic of all the members of a particular culture or of all humans.
#2 of the adjectives and just about ALL of the definitions of nouns would apply to Hierarchy which is the SUBJECT of this belief!
If he did not identify the subject and just said “it is universally believed that…”
then your definition might apply as being the entire world or at least most of it!
“Mets employee (hot dog vendor) said Familia is best suited for the pen”
Now apologize
Well played, sir. I apologize.
Lol, i am telling you, i read it somewhere how some mets people believed he’s best suited for the pen, i know it was not depodesta or sandy, it said it was some mets personal, what’s shocking to me is that wally backman drools over him and harvey, and have said multiple times how this kid and harvey will be studs for years to come for the mets…
Be that as it may, even you would agree that the only opinions that matter are DePo and Sandy, and DePo’s done nothing but rave about Familia.
Hey, I never said it was deposta or sandy, i don’t like those sabergoons, but i never said they’re against familia.. But scouts, BA and that bum from espn keith law thinks he’s best fitted for the bullpen, along with some mets people as well.. It’s that given of some people. Kinda like BA, they only project a player to be good when they demolish the minors or they’re drafted in the first or second round..
“already the mets front office are the ones who wanna put familia in the bullpen…”
I don’t know. Maybe you misspoke or made a mistake. It happens. You said scouts each time after that, so maybe it was a mistake. But that’s what I read and that’s what I thought you meant.
Alex, when some guy like Rubin comes in and says there are people in the Mets organization who thinks that… how much credence do you give the comment?
So wait, when UNKONWN PEOPLE from BA quote a scout an anonymous scout about a player then it’s ok to believe in them but not when it’s about a mets personal?!!? WTF…
Who says I do that either? However, I am asking you a question. When someone like Rubin or Sherman says “people in the Mets organization think…” how much credence do you give it?
Plety they talk to them everyday and if they went around making stuff up and putting words in the Met Org’s mouth they wouldn’t be allowed into the stadium for very long to get those quotes!
I do find it odd that people aropund here see a report they don’t like that features a quote they don’t agree with and They do what they do to the average joe posters and try to discredit them as opposed to taking the fact for what it is!
Only in the case of rumor reports and predictions do the reporters ever make up thier own crap. Most rumors come from some basis in fact, those facts may change but that doesn’t make the report based on fantasy!
The rumors about Niese and Wright being traded were true! The fact they did not consumate a deal does not make the statement there was talk to trade wrong! They Talked and the only thing that happened was they didn’t agree but they still talked!
This attempt to not buy what reporters say would be fine if every report from a reporter is as easily dismissed!
But they wouldn’t be employed for very long if their reports had no basis in facts!
If a reporter says something you can bet your bottom dollar someone put the idea into his head!
Maybe the person who did it really has no say in what is ultimatly decided, Maybe they are leaking to INTENTIONALLY spread disinformation but the bottomline here is someone who seems to be credible started the story with the reporter!
Reporters have one job to do and it’s not to report the absolute facts it’s to make their papers money. If you don’t think they walk a fine line then I will just disagree and move on.
Yes they walk a fine line…On the LAW who says the team could sue him if he attributed quotes to them that did not come from them!
It’s called libel!
He didn’t say the source because the source wasn’t supposed to tell him what they are thinking internally!
But he did note the source was part of the hierarchy!
If they were not he could be sued for saying that!
If they did not believe it they could confront him with his source but they did not…
Why do you think?
because they know it was true and could not prosecute him for making a false claim!
When the source is somehow identified you can bet your last dollar it’s a real quote!
In this case it was identified as Hierarchy, Not a hot dog vendor, not a ticket agent, not some guy standing around waiting for a bus….But someone involved in the decision makers of the team!
Come on there is no way he’s getting sued for something that he attributed to an unnamed source without even using quotations marks. Not only that but in that poorly worded sentence you have no idea what the conversation even looked like, especially without even one direct quote in the entire paragraph.
Well I work in the media and know what just how far we can go on quotations and attributed statements.
He could not say Heirarchy if it was not smeone involved in the day to day evaluation of Met players!
Anyone else would merely be cited as SOURCE or SCOUT not Hierarchy!
And the fact that there were no quotes just means he didn’t use a direct quote just a paraphrase!
My guess is your not an English teacher are you?
Nope, social studies so I am well versed in the differences in citing sources. Also, I am telling you there is no way that without further comments from Sherman that you can tell they were referring directly to Familia in that sentence. I am sure they did ask Mets hierarchy about Mejia as that part is clear. What is unclear is what they asked them about Familia or if they even asked them at all.
“My guess is your not an English teacher are you?”
Oh come on. You can’t make it that easy. At this point, I feel like I’m fishing with dynamite.
What Donal? Are you insulting MY “not an English teacher”? It’s a very nice one.
Oh please your just being rediculopus now TRS…
And I see the guy you are starting to sound like just arrived!
Please the entire last part of the sentence was about Familia!
Show the word that says it was about Mejia please!
You don’t add a subject to a sentence and then go back to the previous one and get a job writing for a newspaper!
again, they do talk to mets people.. You believe in that Dbag of cerrone, and he was around mets people right? well, when professionals do it who’s more believable?? See the point here.. And also, don;t tell me about you don;t believe in BA, if you didn’t you and others woudln’t drool as much about nimmo and wheeler… Double standard as usual
Why are you trying to make this into something it isn’t. Just answer the dang question. How much credence do you give guys like Rubin and Sherman when they say “people in the organization”?
Plenty if they atributethings to the organization, no one in the organization said not only would he get in trouble he would be asked for his source so they could fire the guy giving out false info UNLESS they WANTED that info getting out in the first place!
You do realize it is illegal to attribute sources in a newspaper that aren’t true don’t you?
If he had said rumors or the generic sources then the sources would NOT be “People In the organization” it would just be sources!
The notation of “People In the organization” is made to show it is more factual than some guy he met on the street who would have no idea what “People In the organization” are thinking!
Who are those people? A ticket vendor? A coach in single A? The bullpen catcher?
Also, no offense buddy but I am asking Alex that question.
I know but the answer to your question was in the first part of the sentence…
Hierarchy says someone who is involved in running the team, who makes decisions (maybe not the final but someone who influences that final)
hi·er·ar·chy/ˈhī(ə)ˌrärkē/
Noun:
1.A system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.
2.The upper echelons of a hierarchical system; those in authority.
I have already shown how that sentence does not even have to imply that the hierarchy believes that Familia will ultimately be a reliever.
That being said, again I am asking ALEX a question. Not seeking a definition of hierarchy.
No you haven’t you have YET to show where the Hierarchy statement stopped and the Authors statement began nor how his staement ended and then THEY resumed!
Please TRS face it you lost this one I showed you the quote where the Hierarchy said he might be nothing more than PEN but they are going to give him more time to prove otherwise…
Your getting to Donal proportions with simple denial but not a shred of proof that it was sherman who injected his own statment into the sentence!
He didn’t use quotes because it was not a DIRECT quote he paraphrased!
You don’t use quotes in a journalistic piece unless you are stating what they said WORD for WORD!
This isn’t some damn competition, LOL. I see it completely differently than you do here. It’s a very poorly worded sentence and does not have to be taken literally because of the wording and the lack of direct quotations. Does a reporter have to use direct quotations? Obviously not. However, the sentence is worded poorly enough that we have no idea what the context is.
It’s only poorly worded if it means what you want it to say!
But since it doesn’t mean what you want it to say it says what it actually means you are trying to change that meaning because your hung up on the issue that what someone said before the quote was even mentioned was right!
Xtreeme who has gone absent after daring a quote to be showed and one BEING showed from the met HIERARCHY that said exactly what Alex said…
And all this attempts to change the meaning are to try and save Xtreeme from his own arrogant self!
Thats what they said, it is as clear as day what he meant, who they were referring to, and who said it!
Any arguing to the contrary is merely an attempt to try and save X’s ass from the frying pan!
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/03/harvey-and-familia-told-theyre-going-to-the-minors.html
I am trying to find the original story as the ONLY one to mention it is through MMO. Any other stories out there saying it link to this one but none has an actual link to what Joel said.
Found it and it’s not what he said at all.
“But there seems universal belief within the hierarchy that Jenrry Mejia is going to end up a late-game reliever and that the same might ultimately be true about Jeurys Familia, though they are not close to abandoning the idea of getting him ready to be a starter.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/hardball/up_santana_mets_prospects_pineda_79g5nx8aPqpLNvaJ1epNOK#ixzz1ssUbLZEM”
Where in that could you even read that there is universal belief in the upper ranks that the Mets think Familia will be a late inning reliever? That’s not even close to what it says. All that is Joel adding to something we already know in the fact that the Mets thought Mejia would end up a reliever… duh.
As a one-time English teacher, I can assure you that the way Sherman structured his sentence does infer that the organization believes the same about Familia as they do with Mejia. Sherman can use a lesson in the use of a comma and to use a conjunction after it to interject his own thought. Or simply close it with a period and introduce Familia in a an altogether new sentence.
Well TRS the fact that it was mentioned at all shows there was some thought about it.
Truth is I don’t think the FO thinks that I believe it is Warthen who believes Familia is best suited for the pen…Same guy who wanted Mejia in the pen!
All I was pointing out was there did seem to be some discussion and thought that he might just be a pen arm, who brought it up and said it I can’t say.
If it’s Warthen as I suspect (couldn’t find a quote from him but I do believe it was him) the problem isn’t the FO and I’m glad to see they are ignoring him because that is a cheese that has gone past it’s expiration date!
Joel is just speculating, he never says the METS think that Familia could end up a reliever.
“and that the same might ultimately be true about Jeurys Familia”
He’s just adding his own comments to a comment already made.
trs86 – Joel said they believe he may be a reliever, “though” they are not ready to give up on him as a starter. But the bigger question is why is this such a major concern for you? He’s starting now and if he continues to pitch well as a starter he will remain a starter. You shouldn’t get to fired up about something that may not even happen. Calm down my friend.
LOL, I am the opposite of fired up about this. I am trying to deflate the situation. Some are just assuming things based on what Sherman wrote when it doesn’t even appear the Mets said anything about Familia there. Sherman was just speculating.
There is nothing to suggest that Sherman added his own opinion to theirs.
There was no change of the noun that identified the source of the info.
It was info attributed to “hierarchy” and that identity remained and was re-affirmed with the use of the word “THEY” later on in the same sentence!
“But there seems universal belief within the hierarchy that …, though they are not close to …
THEY is the Hierarchy not Sherman!
There was no opinion being injected there he was reporting what the “Hierarchy” had conveyed to him!
They haven’t given up on him being a starter but there was some talk that he may never be a starter and turn out to be a pen arm!
I don’t see how you can say that sentence says anything BUT that.
” and that the same might ultimately be true about Jeurys Familia”
He does not say that the source even said that. The conversation could have easily went like this and stayed in the bounds of what Sherman said.
“So you got two guys in Mejia and Familia that are considered two of your top prospects. Before Mejia’s injury many in the organization viewed him as a reliever. What’s your thought?”
“Well I think a lot in the Mets hierarchy view him as such”.
“Do you think the same may apply to Familia?”
“I don’t know about that, I think they want to exhaust any chances of him being a starter before thinking about that but sure if not he could be a power arm reliever.”
From that you get:
“But there seems universal belief within the hierarchy that Jenrry Mejia is going to end up a late-game reliever and that the same might ultimately be true about Jeurys Familia, though they are not close to abandoning the idea of getting him ready to be a starter.”
Sorry guys but there is nothing here linking the Mets to actually saying that anyone in the hierarchy views Familia as a reliever and their actions and interviews of top front office guys shows the same.
SURE he doeshe goes on to quote the Hierarchy further in the sentence referring to them as THEY!
If it was his opinion he wouldn’t have said THEY he would have re-established the subject of the sentence!
I believe he might ultimatly be a starter BUT THEY still think he can be otherwise!
Comon your a teacher tell me where you get the injection of opinion in that sentence, where does the source of the information change in it?
Seem quite obvious the source doesn’t change since THEY refers to heirarchy not himself!
If it was himself he would have said I believe he can still be a starter not THEY!
Or I believe he is a Reliever BUT They….
Common sense english dude and your a teacher you should know better!
Again, unless I see the comment in quotes then Sherman has every right to phrase it however he wants. It does not have to mean at all that people in the Mets organization think he will end up a a reliever. I just showed you how easily the conversation could have went and had the exact same comments as Sherman and it not even be close to them saying he is viewed as a reliever.
Oh please there was no need for quotes as the entire sentence was one big quote!
Your insisting on the source thats all…
Well the source was the hierarchy which means it was a decision maker on the Mets…
That could mean ONE decision maker or it could even mean ALL of them!
But the source was stated as someone who makes decisions for the mets!
And they decided not to act on thier beliefs yet, thats what that sentence says!
Any debate regarding it is just trying to get out from under being wrong because the Met HEIRARCHY did say that to sherman!
Even the guy who compiles the BA list has been quoted as saying Familia is nothing more than a Pen arm. And we all know Sandy puts a lot of stock in what BA says
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/2/9/2787635/ba-top-100-includes-harvey-wheeler-not-familia
If the entire sentence was one big quote then why wouldn’t he use quotation marks? There’s a big difference in
“We as the Mets hierarchy believe that Familia will be a reliever”
and
The Mets hierarchy thinks Familia too could become a late inning reliever.
Because it was not a DIRECT quote!
You only use Quotes in Journalism when you quote directly word for word!
He said “Familia is a Reliever”
he said familia is a reliever…
What he MAY have said word for word is “I believe Familia may be more of a bullpen arm than a starter…” and rattled off 50 reasons why.
That was shortened to Familia is a reliever and no quotes were used because it was not a DIRECT word for word quote!
LOL as poorly worded as the quote is you still can’t get out of it that they believe he is a reliever. It never comes close to saying that. The BEST you can get from that to support your claim is that he MIGHT be a reliever but we don’t want to go down that road yet.
Also, again stop trying to educate me on how to write a report. Again, I don’t need any definitions or grammar lessons. I made it just fine through essay school… I mean a degree in social studies.
you can pretty much make the same statement about any young pitching prospect that is still working on stuff int he minors. if they don’t put it all together (3 pitches, control, stamina) then their likely only shot at the majors is in the pen, where you can get away without some (or as much) of those attributes (maybe 2 strong pitches for a couple innings).
so it seems that this entire (beaten to death?) debate centers around if some people in the Mets organization (unnamed) think that there is a chance that in a couple more years Familia might fall into that catagory.
and man, there is a big difference between saying what a guy is now, vs. what he can end up being in a few years.
Agreed, it’s completely much a do about nothing as we have no context at all for the comment for it was just lumped into a comment on Mejia. We already know how they feel about Mejia, it says nothing about how they are certain Familia will follow the same path.
Sure I can!
It’s not poorly worded unless it means what you claim it means!
‘Jenrry Mejia is going to end up a late-game reliever and that the same might ultimately be true about Jeurys!
Thats the statement! The source is “UNIVERSAL BELIEF WITHIN THE HEIRARCHY!”
the BUT is only relevant to how much they are sure of that statement!
Not so sure with Familia but damn sure with Mejia!
Hey Stick how many times have ou heard the met Heirarchy claim Wheeler might be a reliever?
Sure you can say it about any player but they didn’t say it about ANY player they said it about Mejia and Familia!
Just admit you guys are wrong and get over it!
Thats what Sherman said!
Despite claims that no quotes from Met Heirarchy have ever been made!
Obviously they were made!
Live with it and move on!
Joel Sherman aka ‘The Weasel’ and Yankee shill
Alex,
That quote could be a bum rap coming from an angry hot dog vendor who has it in for Familia and saying he belongs in jail (aka the “pen”) and “suited” for prison garb (thick stripes rather than pinstripes?).
Didn’t mean the vendor did not believe he could still not start for the prison team.
JOey D, LMAO!!! very well my friend..
man, some people take vague conceptual musings as hard facts.
And quite often, comments get spun (taken out of context, etc.) to be treated as some “fact” that was never said.
Any kind of projection down the line is going to be full of “ifs”. if Familia never masters more than 2 pitches, If he doesn’t show stamina to go deep in games, If he can’t maintain velocity. If all these things happen, then ultimately he may find himself in the pen.
Ifs of course that you can say about any pitching prospect his age/level. On any team.
But, that does not translate into the Met FO believing he will only be a RP, or that they are planning for it. And if it was Warthen that made the comment, in response to a hypothetical situation (all those IFs) it is still meaningless.
And direct, cited statements have to get 100x the credence of “unnamed sources” conceptualizing. TRS cited Depo earlier. And Familia is in the AAA rotation. 2 things that carry a lot more weight. And even if some of the brass think that he won’t make it as a ML SP, as long as they are still developing him as one, it obviously can’t be more than a gut hunch!
Well said.
Right it as I was saying it really could easily be muchado about nothing because we have no idea what the context was.
“So if Familia fails as a starter could you see him in the pen like Mejia”?
“Sure I think he could be a great reliever but right now we see him as a starter and want to exhaust all those possibilities first.”
All of you seem to miss the point….
If he stays the way he is they think he is destined for the PEN!
Now it’s up to him to prove otherwise!
Just because they don’t HAVE to make that decision now does not mean they don’t already think he may be at best a reliever!
They are giving him a chance to prove them wrong and thats all that statement means!
I’m sure they hope they ARE wrong!
That’s not what it says at all. Good god.
““But there seems universal belief within the hierarchy that Jenrry Mejia is going to end up a late-game reliever and that the same might ultimately be true about Jeurys Familia, though they are not close to abandoning the idea of getting him ready to be a starter.”
AND THAT SAME MIGHT ULTIMATELY BE TRUE ABOUT…
Where does it say that THEY said that he was destined for the pen? This is what I am getting at, you can’t seem to grasp how misleading this comment is. You think Sherman just asked “How do you feel about Mejia and Familia” and they gave one answer applying to both and attributed it to universal belief?
AND THE SAME…(meaning ALSO!!!!) applies to Familia!
What part of that eludes you?
STATEMENT of the sentence
“But there seems universal belief within the hierarchy”
Subjects of the sentence appearing after THAT (the statement):
“Jenrry Mejia is going to end up a late-game reliever AND THAT THE SAME (STATEMENT) might ultimately be true about Jeurys Familia”
CONJUNCTION:
“BUT they have not abandoned the idea of getting him ready to be a starter”
Which means they think he is a reliever but they are not sure yet and if he proves otherwise he will be made a starter!
If he doesn’t the ORIGINAL statement will apply, making him a reliever!
If you don’t understand that then I suggest you go next door to the English teacher and have him explain ito you…Also explain regarding the proper use of quotes in a sentence!
MIGHT, need me to act like an idiot and get that definition for you too? Or would that be “rediculopus “
Being stubborn is no substitute for being correct now is it!
Your just being stubborn trying to make the quote wrong for your interepretation instead of admitting there is nothing wrong with the quote but what IS wrong was your interpretation which clearly doesn’t fit!
That’s rediculopus.
LOL.
Also, do you know the difference in quoting and paraphrasing? You do work in the media, right?
is the fact that my Keyboard recognized two keys being pressed at the same time really all you have to comment on?
Yes I do I was the one who EXPLAINED it to someone who is supposed to have gone through a HIGHER STANDARD OF EDUCATION in order to become a teacher!
Semantics, much ado about nothing, mountains out of mole hills, that’ all I see from you kooks anymore.
Toby Hyde: I talked to an AL scout in attendance and he sees Familia as a very effective late inning reliever, due to the inconsistencies mentioned. If you remember, Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus also shared this sentiment. Should Familia not be able to develop his change-up, I could definitely see him as a dominant late inning relief type guy with his power fastball and slider combination. I would also like to see Familia pitch a little more with some attitude. He did not own the inside part of the plate, and as a hitter, when you see a guy throwing in the upper 90s and pitching inside consistently, it is not a comfortable at-bat.
http://www.metsminorleagueblog.com/jeurys-familia-scouting-report/
ESPN: Most in the Mets organization believe that Familia is further along in his development than the others, although there remains debate about whether he will ultimately work as a starter or reliever, the NY Daily News reports. (Wed Mar 28)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/31687/jeurys-familia
Daily News: Most in the Mets organization believe that Familia is further along in his development than the others, although there remains debate about whether he will ultimately work as a starter or reliever.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2012/03/look-for-harvey-and-familia-to-be-april-teammates-in-triple-a-baxter-over-loewen
Baseball Prospectus: What kind of ceiling/reasonable future can we expect from Familia? Bullpen arm, but a damn good one.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14869#commentMessage
Am I comment #100?
What do I win Joe D?
Well being this discussion is evidently something you can win and lose according to Metsie, perhaps he can send you something like we used to… the proverbial “Flying Toaster” Award.