30
2012
Ike Davis Keys 11th Inning Rally In Mets 6-5 Win Over Rockies
An article by 
Nothing ever comes easy for the Mets does it?
This was one of those games where you come out of it with your nerves frazzled, your voice gone, and a sudden need for a new remote control for the HD.
Johan Santana pitched brilliantly and tossed six scoreless innings before departing the game with a four-run lead. Santana was cruising along and his pitch count sat at 90, but Terry Collins saw fit to hand the game to our “revamped” and “vastly improved” bullpen… Big mistake.
Jon Rauch came in to pitch the eight inning and after a single and two walks he quickly loaded the bases and exits the game with the bases juiced and two outs. In comes lefty-specialist Tim Byrdak to get pinch hitter Todd Helton out. That was the plan, but Helton instead belts a colossal grand slam home run to tie the game at 4-4. It was enough to make you want to scream like a banshee.
It totally sucked for Santana who is now winless in his first five starts for the Mets this season despite a 2.25 ERA.
Somehow, the Mets fought back in the tenth after pinch hitter Mike Baxter comes through in the clutch again and gets on with a one-out single to left. Here comes Captain Kirk making his way to the plate… You know what happens next don’t you? Nieuwenhuis lines a scorching double to left field to plate Baxter with the go ahead run to make the score 5-4 .
In comes our Six Million Dollar Man, Frank Francisco, and like he had for the fourth time in his last five appearances, the new Mets closer was an abysmal failure and quickly allowed the Rockies to come back and tie it at 5-5 on a Carlos Gonzalez home run.
On to the eleventh inning…
The red-hot David Wright gets things started again with a leadoff single to center field. Lucas Duda follows with another single to advance Wright to third. But, oh no, the slumping Ike Davis is up next…
Great Scott, it’s a seeing eye ground-ball that gets past the Rockies’ third baseman… Wright comes around to score the go-ahead run and the Mets grab the lead.. Again!
This time the Mets hang onto the lead and win it 6-5 in eleven innings. Whew…
I’ll tell ya… It’s not easy being a Mets fan… 
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 24 | 18 | .571 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 20 | .535 | 1.5 |
| Phillies | 20 | 23 | .465 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 16 | 24 | .400 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 11 | 32 | .256 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/18/2013
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Oh those Rocky Mountain High games.
Rauch making his 1st appearance since Wednesday had a hard time finding the plate and he walked Cuddyer with 2 outs to load the bases and oh how those walks kill you. He wasn’t going to be perfect on the season so I am not going to get all over him considering his body of work thus far on the season. Byrdak came in and Helton well, did his thing. Santana once again has nothing to show for a well pitched game.
Gonzalez, Tulowitzki and Helton. Those guys are just tough.
Francisco simply failed. He had to close the door after the Mets went back on top and he didn’t.
Positives has to be Santana’s pitching effort. He deserved a win. Capt Kirk with what has to be the catch of the week in MLB and with a big hit in the 10th to give the Mets the lead. How about some props for David Wright as well. His heads up 1st to 3rd in the 11th scoring what would be the winning run. Mr Tejada was just unconscious with 3 hits and watching his B.A. jump 71 points in this series. But more importantly Ike Davis who continues to look like he is about to break out of his slump and for the Mets that is huge.
Offensively there is just so many good things from this game and series one could do multiple posts and still overlook something.
The Mets biggest attribute from this game is that once again they never folded. They kept fighting back. Blew 2 leads and still found a way to win.
4 games above .500 for what is the 4th time now in 2012 and personally I am enjoying every bit of it. On to Houston to try and see if they can finally get to 5 games above .500.
LGM!!!
Right before Byrdak threw the grand salami pitch to Helton, I said out loud, DON’T HANG A SLIDER.I guess he didn’t hear me.Props for fighting back, but u have to win this one in nine and get Johan the win.What do you folks think Collins is going to do when they activate Torres?I would put him in left and keep Kirk in Center.He has been amazing in CF.Please don’t move him and keep him in the lead off spot.They also have to find a way to keep Baxter.Great job pinch hitting this year.Your move, Mr. Manager.
I would imagine that for now V-Spin may go down. As for Torres in CF and leading off, I think if Collins does that it may take a while for me to get over that. To me it would be the worst move of his tenure.
Already announced Lutz is going down.
TC said after the game that he wants to talk to Torres first but right now he’s planning on playing him in CF. IMO, he should play LF. Leave Kirk in CF.
I expect lutz will go down otherwise they will be short of MI depth. Unless you want turner as the Bu MI.
i agree, Lutz doesn’t look like he belongs here while Valedspin should be getting more playing time and with Cedeno out it makes even more sense. If Hairston wasn’t hot Valdy would be playing more
Oh yeah, forgot about Cedeno. I guess you are right.
gary, I think just about everyone, other than Collins, agrees with you.
Stop when you’ve heard this before…”Johan Santana pitched great, left with the lead, and the Mets bullpen screwed him.” Story of Johan’s Mets career.
When the *(^% will this team ever be worthy of The Johan?!!!
Cap’n Kirk with the Spirit of T. Agee. God, I love that kid!
Way to go ID–Welcome Back!
Fransucko…not a dynamite closer.
Ramon Rodriguez…Good Man!
Byrdak, was that Sh&% scripted or what.
In the end, I’m just so glad Pandering Peyton Manning and Helton will have dinner out tonight and the chat will go something like this:
PM: You sure were amazing today Todd with that Game Tying Grand Slam!!!
TH: Yeah, but the Mets beat us.
Yeah, Chipper Jones of NL West–you and the Rockies got beat. Eat it!!!
Hey Russ, you think Helton was happy to see Peyton? Manning Pipped him in school and now he’s usurping most popular athlete in Denver from Helton. I can picture the secret room in Helton’s basement with Peyton’s picture on a dartboard.
I think Tulo has already taken most popular athlete away from Helton. That’s Tulo Town over there now.
Yeah, that’s true. That would be a great episode plot for one of those police shows, though. The “Peyton” character winds up dead, and the person you’d least expect to have done it is the “Helton” character, the guy he’s friends with the longest, they go way back, were teammates, etc.
Also, I have an overactive imagination in the morning.
At the end of the day its a W. and thats really good.
Oh the agony of victory. Only the Mets can piss you off with a win. In years past we lose a game like this but these kids just keep on plugging away and that’s one thing I can’t take away from Collins. His in-game managing leaves you wondering WTF on a daily basis but these guys gring it out under him. Great but aggravating win. After letting friday night slip away this would’ve been a horrible loss. Lets get at least 2 of 3 from Houston.
*Grind it out*
“but these kids just keep on plugging away”
Hi Fonz,
That’s what I said about this team last year and since this is basically the same group that in 2011 was cited by many as just a .500 ball club playing over it’s head and not in the same class as Atlanta, St. Louis and the other teams vying for the wild card, I am afraid that means Santana and/or David will be shipped off this July for some more top prospects, no matter how close they might be in the wild card standings.
if they keep playing like this and are in the race, no one you want around is going to be traded. Francisco, with other guys taken over? maybe. Bay? for sure. But they aren’t trading Wright if they are in the thick of the playoff race.
Stick,
They sent their top hitter and closer packing last season when in the race so it wouldn’t surprise me to see them do the same with David and Johann. Johann isn’t our future and David is going to ask for top dollar when his contract runs out after next season.
It’s cost effective because we can no longer afford large commitments to just one or two players, made worse by the club again losing money for the fourth consecutive year. This also opens up opportunities for younger players to step in and can get us some more prospects for rebuilding. And with teams looking to shore up their starting pitching for the division races and playoffs, there are bound to be clubs willing to give up a top rated prospect for the veteran Santana, so how can one pass up on such an offer? Same with a team in need of more hitting when it comes to Wright.
In addition, we must be real and accept that no matter where the team appears in the standings by mid July, it is still only capable of, at most, finishing at .500 so why sacrifice our future by not taking advantage of further steps that could improve the team in the long term? And until those prospects are ready, we should only commit to players whose stay here will be temporary and inexpensive.
Those were the reasons and visions given for last year so the front office has already set a precedent. Why should this year be any different?
The one main reason to disagree is that the Madoff case resolution was favorable to the Mets, Plus the Mets cut quite a bit of payroll and other organizational expenditures during the between the seasons. These two things bring a different set of conditions than existed last season. So any “precedent” wouldn’t apply to this season.
K-Rod had to go, otherwise his contract would have been crippling (again not knowing what was going to happen with Madoff impacted this).
Once Reyes got hurt trading Beltran was a no-brainer. At the time the team obviously was not bringing him back with the injury history and looking to cut payroll. While K-Rod was strictly a salary dump and the Mets got nothing, Beltran brought back Wheeler who projects to be a staple of a starting rotation for the future along with Harvey and Niese. They saved some money last year, and picked up a blue chip prospect when they wouldn’t even be able to recoup a draft pick if he were signed away by another team due to his contract.
On to Johan, you can’t expect a dominant prospect for him. With his recent surgery teams may still be wary. Johan is kind of in uncharted territory right now. The two people mentioned in regards to the shoulder capsule surgery most were Mark Prior and Chien-Ming Wang. Obviously the track record of the type of surgery isn’t great. Johan has been great so far, but keeping it up and seeing if his shoulder holds up is a big deal right now. Hopefully it will continue and this will be a non issue. Not to mention, the amount of money owed to him. Many teams will not be able to take on the contract, so the Mets would have to eat quite a bit of salary. And teams that can afford the salary would give a lesser prospect based upon the amount of financial responsibility they assume.
Trading Wright during the season wouldn’t be getting his top value. If he is traded the last year of the contract is voided so he would turn into a rental player. If Wright is to be traded the offseason makes most sense. Once the final contract year begins trade him for a return on a full season of David Wright. Or you have the option of rolling the dice and seeing how 2013 goes and trading him during next season.
Now, this isn’t to say they will not be traded, but I wouldn’t bet on it in either case.
Sorry to disagree with you on this one Sane,
But the Madoff decision was about future debt, not the current financial status of the Mets or Sterling Equities. It would have probably put the nail on the coffin as far as the Wilpons financial empire was concerned.
But it doesn’t change things. They put themselves into excessive debt believing they would have the resources to cover it in the years to come. This all came before they lost a half billion dollars of their own money and the inflow of steady revenue from earnings they did not know were made off a ponzi scheme. The real estate market went bust. Fans would not pay the high prices for tickets and concessions they expected they would get by building a smaller capacity ballpark.
And the team is going to lose more money this year. And even to those of us on the outside with really no knowledge of the insides of the financial world, for there to be no biters when offering minority partnerships with “guaranteed” dividends in the biggest sports market in America, that has to show something in wrong in the projected long-term earnings scenario.
How much did the Mets save last year by not having to pay KRod that extra $17 million bonus and the remainder of his contract as well as Beltran’s? About $30 million or so for the rest of the season? With majority ownership of SNY as another source of revenue for the Wilpons (and one they refused to part with) if their economic empire couldn’t absorb that amount, then the financial picture has to be much more bleaker. That they had to hire an outside financial consulting firm to get their act in order, reduce operations across the board, have yet to begun paying off for Citi Field, etc. the payroll issue was small potatoes in comparison.
And if the financial circumstances weren’t so bleak as the front office is now contending, then there was absolutely no excuse for the moves made last season considering the position the team was in with the wild card standings. Was our future so pathetic that we literally had to sacrifice 2011 for Zach Wheeler? What does that say about the kids on the roster right now?
Joey I am pretty sure it’s already been mentioned but the Mets paid most of Beltran’s contract.
Joe D. has broken it down a few times that the current finances have pretty much been stabilized at the payroll level they are at. so as long as attendance holds steady (and with the nice start, and some exciting players, no reason to think it won’t) they really aren’t in bad financial position, not to the extent that they have to jettison good players just to cut overhead.
last year was a perfect storm of crapitude though.
The working theory is with the lower payroll and other organizational cuts the team has a better financial outlook. I’m not saying that they’ll be freely spending money.
Yes, as you point out the Mets maybe saved $30 million. That’s a big deal when losing $70 million though. And like you said, “…they had to hire an outside financial consulting firm to get their act in order, reduce operations across the board…” The point of which was to help improve the financial situation. And if you’re saying that the Madoff settlement which cut the potential $1 billion owed to $182 million owed does not make a brighter financial outlook you’d be crazy. Not to mention that the Wilpons may benefit from future clawback suits against Madoff as well.
In the case of Beltran, like I said K-Rod was already gone and Reyes was hurt. The Mets aren’t going to bring him back for 2012. It just was never going to happen. To say otherwise is just trying to fool yourself. Already down two of your best players on a team that lacks organizational depth to fill these holes trading Beltran made sense. I do believe that he wouldn’t have been traded unless receiving someone great in return. Zack Wheeler projects to be something great. Is it pathetic to anticipate a slide and build towards the future? I don’t think so. Keeping Beltran would have been a short sighted move. If we win two extra games over the rest of the season to keep Beltran is it worth it? Then this year we have no Beltran, no Wheeler, and no draft pick compensation as Beltran’s contract had a clause wouldn’t allow for it.
Hi Sane,
“And if you’re saying that the Madoff settlement which cut the potential $1 billion owed to $182 million owed does not make a brighter financial outlook you’d be crazy. Not to mention that the Wilpons may benefit from future clawback suits against Madoff as well.”
What I said was that the Madoff settlement going against them would have been the final nail in the coffin but that this doesn’t translate into a brighter future. Remember the other other points I made: loss of a half billion dollar investment, loss of the projected revenue expected from Madoff, Sterling Equities taking a big hit in the real estate market, the Wilpons accruing a large amount of debt (Citi Field, SNY loans, etc.) not knowing that they were going to be hit by all the above sides and that the tremendous losses suffered by the Mets since 2009 could not simply be offset by the revenue the club generates for SNY, which the Wilpons are majority owners and were not willing to part with (and as it has been well documented, the real money for a sports franchise is either owning it’s own sport network or the selling of its television rights).
So they are still in very rough and unknown financial territory.
As far as the money saved by sending KRod and Beltran packing, if finances aren’t the point and what was best for the ball club are instead, there are two camps. One, which Metsi, I and some others subscribe to, was that the Mets were in the thick of the wild card race and had a legitimate shot because they were playing inspired ball at the time and were 13 games over .500 since that horrible start. The front office then pulled the rug from underneath them and, as R.A. Dickey alluded to, did not believe in the players and that was hard to swallow (not to mention the benefits of the experience playing in meaningful games, the building of character, confidence and a winning attitude plus building a momentum for the future.
That Krod and Beltran would no longer be on the club would only mean that instead of going after rentals for a few months like other contenders commonly do, we were retaining our own rentals for the rest of the year instead.
The other camp us the one that you might be in – that this team was at best a .500 ball club and retaining both KRod and Beltran might have meant maybe just one or two more wins instead. That is a legitimate argument and with that perspective, the moves made by the front office were justified. No team should hold onto veteran players with no future for the club when they are out of the race and can get something in return.
If one finds this team in the wild card and/or division race in July again this season, it would be an indication that the moves made last year had little to do with the team and all to do with a precarious financial foundation that went beyond the franchise and onto Sterling Equities instead. If similar moves are not made this year, it would prove the same point at least in terms of a baseball related scenario. It will also, in my own opinion, raise the question of how bad finances really were last season and whether or not the dire straights the Wilpons made publicly were simply meant to influence the jury in the civil suit, as one lawyer suggested.
Enjoyed the back and forth respectful exchange of differing opinions. As you no doubt know, that type of discussion is becoming uncommonly rare in MMO.
Best.
Thanks for the comment. Just looking to debate, not looking to ruin anyone’s day.
In regards to the finances, yes there’s still a lot of debt. Most teams do operate under debts though. Maybe not to the degree that the Wilpons have, but I digress. All I am saying is that knowing that you will owe $820 million less due to the settlement can’t help but be a positive for their finances. Not saying there are no other bills. And by saving roughly $30 million which could roughly equate to losing 30% less in a year, yes losing $70 million is tough but it is better than losing $100 million. That to me is a better financial situation than not having that $30 million in pocket and still thinking that extra $820 million might be owed.
As far as the trades themselves I just want to repost my rationale in case you didn’t see it from the thread.
“K-Rod was traded on 7/12/11. With the financial situation of the team K-Rod could not be allowed to make $17 million in 2012 for the Mets. The trade had to happen. At the time the Mets were in 5th place for the wild card 7.5 GB. behind Atlanta, Arizona, Milwaukee/St. Louis, and Pittsburgh.
As stated, with injuries to Reyes, Murphy, Davis, and K-Rod gone already on July 28, 2011 Beltran was traded with the Mets only 6.5 GB, but still in fifth for the wild card. You also can not disregard the fact that Wheeler was the bounty. The Mets haven’t exactly been pushing young stud starters through the pipeline, if Wheeler comes up and becomes an anchor for the rotation for a decade you won’t complain about this deal. Seriously, be honest with yourself. I can’t say for certain that will be the case. Beltran had a WAR of 1.0 for the Giants in his time there. You know what that does for the Mets? It still keeps the Mets out of the playoffs. I’ll take my chances with Wheeler and knowing that Beltran was one of the Mets best free agent signing ever. He handled New York with a class that I wish others would have. I want to stress that I am a huge fan of Carlos and would have loved nothing more than for him to finish his career here and have the opportunity to win a championship. But it just wasn’t going to happen.
Now you may feel that the deficit was enough to overcome, but also needing to overcome four teams would be a steep climb. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but the odds weren’t exactly in the Mets favor. Especially when the teams you are chasing are better than your team, Pirates not withstanding. Yes, the Braves had an epic collapse, but you can’t predict that would have happened.
For some maybe that is a situation where you play out and go for the playoffs. However, with a team that in theory wasn’t supposed to be in contention to begin with, coupled with the odds against them at the time, I feel trading K-Rod and Beltran were prudent for the franchise moving forward.”
Hi Sane,
Good points but remember that the Cardinals were only one game ahead of the Mets and one less team to climb over at the time the Mets were closing in. Where does one game in the standings in July determine one club is in a race and the other one is out? Again, it depends upon what each of our expectations was of the club at hand. Certainly, it would have been a boost in the development and maturity of the young kids to be told to go ahead and show us what you can do.
And the Mets were playing with poise, confidence and a never-give-up attitude and it was R.A. Dickey who said that the move showed how the front office did not believe in the team while everyone to a man inside that clubhouse felt completely the opposite and that was indeed hard to swallow.
No matter what we say, up to that point they were indeed playing inspired baseball. After that, it’s just different takes on the quality of the team on the field.
As far as the injuries, don’t forget that Reyes was injured but was expected back in about two weeks .* Also, we continued winning way after Davis got hurt and few gave much to his chances of coming back as the medical reports kept on getting worse and worse – so that was not a factor. And we continued playing great while David was out and unlike Ike was expected to come back. So consider how great the team played despite those obstacles. Murphy only got hurt after the trades as did Niese which nobody had a crystal ball to foresee.
* Sandy first told us the doctors said it was a day to day thing and Jose would probably be OK to play at the all-star game – when three days later he then said the doctors told him something completely different. I bring it up as another example of how the front office has lost it’s credibility with it’s public statements and so that’s why I believe their now more positive public stance on finances might be another smoke screen. Just like Jose, what business sense does it take to realize that if they intend to keep David at least contact his agent and see if something can be agreed upon and get the situation over with. That they are not, only gets me to feel that something else may be brewing, just like last year.
If the Wilpons relied on just SNY and the Mets for their revenue, I think they would be in better financial shape. But they were quite diversified in real-estate which has taken a bust, dependent upon so much with Madoff for investments and returns which no longer exists, and so much in debt that I cannot believe just the premise of the civil suit going against them would have caused such drastic actions as far as the Mets were concerned because the lack of attendance cost them more than the payroll savings they got. Something just not right with that.
Ciao
I wouldn’t say that trading Beltran and K-Rod hurt developing players. Sure, everyone would like to play during a playoff race, but you can’t say for certain whether doing so has any bearing on how you will develop as a player.
Yes, the Mets played the game the right way. They hustled and didn’t quit on games. Yes, it can be disheartening to see people traded away. However you also need to look at it in regards to the franchise as a whole. We all want the Mets to win, every game, every year. Obviously this will not happen. The real goal is to be a long term competitive franchise. I personally never felt great about the Mets playoff chances last year. Yes, they were within striking distance. So were four other teams in front of them, and four other teams within 3 games of the Mets at the time.
One could argue that with the injuries the team was playing over their heads and wouldn’t be able to keep it up. You watch, and love that the young kids are coming up and filling in and games are being won. But is it sustainable? Wright returned and really wasn’t himself. I wouldn’t know how to pull up stats from before and after Reyes was hurt, but I remember not looking the same on the field even if he was still producing at a level that won the batting title. Not saying he wasn’t productive, just didn’t seem right. Murphy filled in capably at first. We all know he can hit, and I believe he can field enough to not be a liability in the field.
Now consider hindsight. Murphy got hurt. Niese got hurt. Even Beltran missed some time in San Francisco after the trade. Can’t say for sure those would have happened without the trade, but if they did the nail is in the coffin for the playoff race.
As far as statements made regarding Jose’s injury, doctors get things wrong. It does seem to happen more often with the Mets, but maybe that’s just because I follow them much more closely. One particular example would be Michael Pineda this year. Shoulder tendinitis, rest for two weeks turned into a rotator cuff tear and missing the season. These things happen.
Discussing a contract with Reyes, well Sandy wanted to evaluate him himself before making an offer before the season began. Which I can respect being a new GM. If I recall the Mets dis reach out to Reyes’ representatives and were told he wouldn’t discuss a contract during the season. This I can also respect. I believe that once Reyes got hurt Alderson thought it would be possible his value on the free agent market may take a hit. Maybe I am too trusting, but I believe that if Alderson and the Mets felt that they had a chance at resigning him. I think the Marlins offer was just oo much for them to match. I was hoping the Mets would have at least offered what they could saying 1) you’re an important part of this organization 2) with our current financial situation we can’t match this offer. Maybe Reyes does stay in Flushing. Who knows?
With Wright, he is still under contract for 2013, unless he gets traded, then he will become a free agent. So if you’re worried that there isn’t extension talks happening, this offseason would be the time to really get upset. “Asked by ESPNNewYork.com to expand on his Sunday night television comment in which he said about David Wright, “I, honestly, at this point cannot foresee David playing elsewhere,” Sandy Alderson said the statement spoke for itself. The GM added that it was not a deviation from previous language he had used.” (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/43358/sandy-on-wright-comment-no-deviation)
And as I have been saying about the finances, you can’t deny that simply without that possible $820 mil hanging over their heads it doesn’t make for a better outlook. Once again, not saying it’s all sunny and ok. Not saying the Mets are going to raise the payroll substantially and begin signing big ticket free agents. However, if I owed someone $1000, then it turned out there was a miscalculation and I only owed $180 you’d better believe I’d be in a better situation regardless of my monetary situation elsewhere. And if the Mets continue to play well, hopefully attendance will pick up to hopefully offset some cost.
Here’s hoping.
Hi Sane,
It was not a matter of the doctors re-evaluating Jose’s injury and coming up with a different prognosis.
At the press conference held after that game on Sunday, Sandy said the doctors examined Jose and found the injury was not so serious that it required a stint on the disabled list but rather him being rested for a few games. Sandy emphasized that Jose would probably be OK for the All Star the following week.
A few days later when Jose went on the DL, the Mets were on the road and Sandy made an appearance in the broadcast booth. He then said the doctors told him that Sunday how serious the injury was and that it was almost a certainty Jose would need to go on the DL The Mets only waited with the decision because there was an outside chance that he could get better quickly, though doctors told him that was highly unlikely.
Sandy told us one thing on Sunday then something completely different a few days later. Why was he not being honest with us? Well, it certainly wasn’t because he was told one thing by the doctors and then something else. Could it have been not wanting the news to affect advance ticket sales for as long as possible? Your guess is as good as mine, but that is what happened – I remember because I wrote about it the very next day on several blogs.
What occurred regarding Jose’s free agent status I think had little to do with Sandy being the new general manager and needing time to evaluate the situation. He was able to make or approve decisions regarding which players to cut and which ones to sign just a few weeks into the job and this nvolved a total of at least twenty players coming or going. Meanwhile, the Mets were not making any overtures other than one informal conversation during the approximate eight months leading up to when Jose finally said his agent was not going to open up contract negotiations until after the season. Miami didn’t come into play during the eleven months Sandy took over and the Mets had exclusive negotiating rights.
Catch ya,
Joe
what the sane guy said. Really a whole different set of circumstances.
and you can certainly debate how in the race they were mid-july last year. Very fringe/long shot at best, and knowing the Reyes was hurt and Ike was done.
and also, the team has looked pretty competitive so far, during a tough part of the schedule. If they keep this up through mid-July, why exactly should you expect them to fade away to barely finish .500?
K-Rod was traded on 7/12/11. With the financial situation of the team K-Rod could not be allowed to make $17 million in 2012 for the Mets. The trade had to happen. At the time the Mets were in 5th place for the wild card 7.5 GB. behind Atlanta, Arizona, Milwaukee/St. Louis, and Pittsburgh.
As stated, with injuries to Reyes, Murphy, Davis, and K-Rod gone already on July 28, 2011 Beltran was traded with the Mets only 6.5 GB, but still in fifth for the wild card. You also can not disregard the fact that Wheeler was the bounty. The Mets haven’t exactly been pushing young stud starters through the pipeline, if Wheeler comes up and becomes an anchor for the rotation for a decade you won’t complain about this deal. Seriously, be honest with yourself. I can’t say for certain that will be the case. Beltran had a WAR of 1.0 for the Giants in his time there. You know what that does for the Mets? It still keeps the Mets out of the playoffs. I’ll take my chances with Wheeler and knowing that Beltran was one of the Mets best free agent signing ever. He handled New York with a class that I wish others would have. I want to stress that I am a huge fan of Carlos and would have loved nothing more than for him to finish his career here and have the opportunity to win a championship. But it just wasn’t going to happen.
Now you may feel that the deficit was enough to overcome, but also needing to overcome four teams would be a steep climb. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but the odds weren’t exactly in the Mets favor. Especially when the teams you are chasing are better than your team, Pirates not withstanding. Yes, the Braves had an epic collapse, but you can’t predict that would have happened.
For some maybe that is a situation where you play out and go for the playoffs. However, with a team that in theory wasn’t supposed to be in contention to begin with, coupled with the odds against them at the time, I feel trading K-Rod and Beltran were prudent for the franchise moving forwards.
Certainly aren’t playing uninspired baseball, huh?
Were not playing uninspired baseball last July either but you still didn’t accept it then did you?
Blah blah blah blah. Same ole same ole.
Yep inspired baseball is only worth talking about when it favors your Sandy argument?
“Were not playing uninspired baseball last July either but you still didn’t accept it then did you?”
Metsi,
Let’s you and I never let others who are gung-ho about this year ever forget that – unless they admit now having second thoughts about 2011 (before the injuries to Neise and Murphy). The ones who believe that this year’s team still won’t be more than .500 at most we should have no argument with for they are staying the course with their convictions.
18 hits and only 6 runs to show for it? Yikes. We’re lucky we won this one. That’s pathetic.
Yet another good outing from Johan where he doesn’t get a W. I know a win is a win but Johan must be thinking: ‘what the hell is it going to take?’
Just heard on SNY that Collins will bat Torres lead off and he will play CF and Kirk will go to left.iI guess there is a slight chance Collins knows what he is doing but if ain’t broke,why fix it?Kirk has a .400 oba.and has looked Jim Edmondesque in the field.Torres is here on a one year deal and has no future with this team.I don’t get it.I didn’t understand why he pulled Batista today after a nice 1-2-3 7th inning in which he hit 95 on the gun.I hope it doesn’t kill the momentum that Kirk and Tejada established in Colorado as the table setters.Just saw that incredible catch That Kirk made today in CF again on SNY.Maybe Collins was in the locker room.I wish someone would show it to him before he writes the line up card before tomorrows game.
Not a “big mistake” at all for those who know the game.
It is a LOOOOOONG season, and we need Johan all yeat.
Great win.
I’m so glad we revamped that Bullpen this offseason aren’t you?
Metsie, I agree and disagree b/c BPs are a tremendously difficult thing to get right. As a whole, they often seem as streaky as most position players. And you never ever understand how it is that a man who just had a great season in relief is terrible the next one and vice versa.
Believe me, I cursed and screamed plenty at guys like Rauch, Byrdak, and Francisco yesterday, but tomorrow I might be singing their praises. I am by turns more frustrated with the BP and more patient with it than any other “unit” of ours on the field.
No RP can be perfect. And so far, Byrdak has been great, and those were the first runs Rauch gave up (and if the Ump hadn’t been squeezing, he probably gets out of it. FF, so far, he looks rough, but he overall depth (with Parnell, and now Ramirez setting in) is better.
so overall, the pen is improved. And there are some guys in the minors (like Edgin) waiting as reinforcements.
Not sure if you remember, but last year we had the 4th best bullpen in all baseball, and even with a shi*** SP rotation, our team was doing great.. Then of course, sandy needed to save some $ to the wilpons so…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodrifr03.shtml
Yup, we would much rather have Krod at 17M.
Well Russel the comment was meant to be a flippant one and I expected most to ignore it but I seem to have hit a nerve seeing all the comments.
Is it hard to judge BP arm from year to year? not if you look at the right things.
In Francisco’s case this performance is not really anything new. While many may have looked just at his ERA of the past which was ok in a general sort of way (but not for a closer), what is most key when looking at a BP arm who is about to be your closer is the Runs given up per appearance.
Throughout Francisco’s career he has given up a half a run per game and a Hit (or more) per game,
RPG .450 HPG .870 (2012 RPG .900 HPG 1.300)
His history is filled with attempts to make him a closer only to have him fail and lose the job.
Compared to a guy like KRod whose numbers in those categories are:
RPG .330 HPG .775 (2012 RPG .583 HPG .833)
If that was the only mistake it would be one thing and you might dismiss he was the most expensive mistake made to date.
But then couple it with Carrasco, Ramirez (granted a trade), Buchholz and Boyer well thats about 90% of the guys Sandy has EVALUATED as good to have but have failed!
Might as well Mention Ramirez’ numbers
RPG .405 HPG .862 (2012 RPG .818 HPG 1.454)
In comparison Rauch and Byrdak have the following:
Byrdak – RPG .387 HPG .680 (2012 RPG .272 HPG .454) – Pretty good numbers actually
Rauch – RPG .497 HPG 1.03 – Worse than all the others only so far he has not pitched to that history since coming to us! (2012 RPG .250, HPG .416 so…so far so good! but if history prevails we are in deep trouble!)
So it really isn’t all that hard to see what is consistent about them as players, You just have to look at what a reliever does per game to see how often he affects the score he is charged with holding and how much ease he gets through those games!
If a guy only gives up a run in a third of his games on average chances are likely he had one bad inning there and for the most part will not allow a run, If he gives up a hit per game then he is constantly giving opportunity to the opposition (and truth is to be thorough I should have looked at walks as well but don’thave the time today)
The signs were all there about what these guys do whenever they get into a game we just didn’t look. We went for the cheap and there was a reason why it was so cheap! You can’t really trust them unless you have more than a 2 or 3 run lead because they are all pretty close to giving up a run per game they come into! And if they don’t give it up themselves they leave a runner on to get scored by his replacement. Not good!
I do Hope Rauch keeps with his current numbers, I happen to think (from what I have seen so far) he is the better of the three we got this year as far as talent goes. Just needs some proper coaching if you ask me. But if he goes back to his history we will have failed on EVERY BP acquisition we have made since Sandy got here with the exceoption of Byrdak!
Yeah how bout it – Rauch has been excellent until yesterday, first blown save for Francisco and he’s no more scarey than KROD was (short memory?) and Ramirez has been decent too. So yeah, it’s improved.
Bullpen is better than the last previous years thusfar.
Sorry, but are you ***ing out of your mind? When did K-Rod or ANY Mets closer ever have a 7.75 ERA and a a 1.99 WHIP?
And as for your one blown save defense, that doesn’t even begin to tell the story of how atrocious Francisco has been. Not even close!!!
Metsie, here’s that revamped bullpen’s stats for the year combined between the 3:
24 IP 28 Hits 19 ER 13 BB 24 K and 3 blown saves already… AWFUL!!
I’ve said it at the beginning of the year, this team will find ways to win despite of the sabotage done by the sabergoons in the front office… And i have been right… So Far..
Not like your main guy down there in Miami, right, that is getting benched to try and keep him above the Mendoza line?
You agenda much? Or understand that 23 games is small sample?
Main guy???? Thing is, you see articles taking shots at omar minaya and praising alderson for doing absolutely nothing, yet, if i say something negative about sandy’s pathetic additions then all the sandy lovers and sabergooners jumped all over me.. Go figure.. Go back to the dessert if you don’t like my comments, i am sure all y’all losers get along because you are all the same…
It’s desert not dessert, although baseball does go well with hot apple pie. Again, thanks for the advertisement.
Now if you don’t think that some of your buddies are looking for anything they can attack Sandy on even when they are winning, think again.
Find me any thread, in which any of us have started the thread saying how much sandy sucks?? NONE.. Yet you see a bunch of articles been written taking shots at minaya, reyes, reyes, minaya etc.. It’s becoming some obsessive charade.. Can’t we be happy we’re playing well, winning and that’s it? Why make sandy out to be a genius for how well this team is doing when it’s the kids from omar regime that are doing well? and as i said, despite sandy alderson sabotagin the offseason, this team is taking a stance.. SO before taking shots at omar and reyes, please see how well sandy’s price acquisition are doing.. Leave it along and let’s enjoy the ride..
So lets see after a win you go right at Sandy and say he tried to sabotage the team yet we are the ones that need to get along and enjoy the wins.
Again, as i said all offseason, he did nothign to help the team… NOTHING… It all has been, david, ruben, duda, the SP and CAPT KIRK… The bullpen has been ATROCIOUS to say the least.. Now, am i wrong????
the BP overall has been very good this year, and is a big part of how they got to be 1 game out of the division lead. Of course there have been a few bad performances. Every team has those. And ERA for a RP with so few innings is practically meaningless now.
you also have to consider Reyes as a move that Sandy made (since you blame him 100% for chasing him away). So far, that looks like a master stroke.
and cut the BS about “attacking” omar, etc. Every post you made this morning has something to do with how awful sandy did, how terrible “his” BP has been, etc.
Agreed, I have not read anything attacking Omar or making this into the same ole tired debate except for those seeking to bash Sandy on something.
Also it’s not always what you spend or even the names you get. The Marlins have already blown 5 out of their 7 save chances.
Congrats on a gutsy win… Kirk.. Wow.. That kid got a nice pair of stones and he is a baseball player.. He’s got that old school mentality to go all out but play the game the right way.. Nice game by DW, Also, Duda… And johan santana… I feel sorry for him… I thought that revamped bullpen sandy got us this offseason was gonna get the job done… Francisco is starting to be francisco, Byrdak Imho sucks, Ramirez has shown flashes to be good, but then awful… It’s amazing we keep blowing leads and not scoring runs for johan.. At what point this stops?
You forgot to mention Ruben Tejada but I agree with everything you say. I feel bad for Santana too. He cant catch a break with this team.
Maxx, yes of course.. I mentioned him on another thread, but what a series for ruben… That kid can play.. I admit, i was dead wrong on him struggling trying to replace reyes.. HE’s got what it takes .. so far so good…
Alex I think a lot of if it “will be a good decision” will be based on who they spend that money on eventually and if Murphy or someone else can play a decent 2B.
TRS86. what about havens??? He’s playing and i think he has a shot to make it (if stays healthy of course) this season or next…
Havens can hit, for sure. If he can play the next couple months up to his potential, with no injury issues, he easily cold push Murphy onto the trade block if he can bring back a helpful SP.
I think between Murphy, Havens, and V-spin they have some guys that can play a decent 2B. Then it becomes who do they invest that money in. How upset are you going to be if they use that money to give Wright an extension? LOL.
When he pitches 9 innings??
If they extend wright, they are just giving him some of the dough we didn’t spend on Reyes.Considering most of our FA signings never pan out, I would much rather spend it on Wright.At least we know he can play in this town and will not disappear like Jason K.
It was obvious that Sandy had no intention of re-signing Reyes even before spring training began and we can’t say it was because he had Tejada waiting in the wings for up to that time the consensus was that Tejada just could not hit major league pitching. He hit just .213 in 2010 and looked over matched.
It was all about the Mets not having the money to spend and nothing more. That it didn’t happen during the season was due simply to Jose fouling things up by battling for the batting title so Sandy couldn’t trade him (injuries or not) because absolutely nobody would have shown up at Citi Field after that (little as there were).
That Tejada suddenly showed he could hit like he did in the minors now makes the decision for us fans seem credible, but Sandy’s mind was already made up before St. Lucie so again, it was not a decision based on Ruben Tejada being in the wings but was a case of Ruben certainly bailing him out. In case one doesn’t remember, attached is a reminder on how Ruben’s future was seen upon after the 2010 season:
http://www.metstoday.com/5866/2010-mets-evaluations/2010-analysis-ruben-tejada/
The front office just got lucky that 1) Ruben emerged as he did for they were certainly not counting on him on anything more than being the heir apparent at second and 2) Murphy – who also was not being counted on by Sandy (Brad Emus was the man, remember?) – proved how much his bat was needed and learned how to cover second , even if no more than just adequately.
None of the above happened prior to Sandy making up his mind about Jose. Ruben and Daniel were not in the grand scheme of things when the decision was first made. That things worked for the better only means that Sandy lucked out – and perhaps, so did we as fans.