Gee Struggles, Defense Weak In Mets First Loss, 6-2 To Nationals

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• tampametsfan April 11, 2012 at 1:38 am

  Murphy is such a liability on the field. He needs to be a first baseman.
  • Kay April 11, 2012 at 7:46 am

    He had an error last night, the night before he made a very good play. Just like everyone is saying relax on the 4 game win streak, relax on the error in Game 5.

    My God people are on the ledge after one lousy game.
    • Seligman April 11, 2012 at 9:46 am

      If you think all Daniel Murphy had was one error last night you need to watch the games closer and pay more attention. Murphy muffed four potential double plays in yesterday’s game and had he made them the Nationals would have only score two runs rather than six.

      His failure tom execute extended four different innings for Dillon Gee who actually pitched well and that would have been much more apparent if not for Murphy’s failure to perform at his position.

      In addition to the one error and 4 muffed double plays, Murphy just missed a throwing error thanks to Ike Davis who jumped and reached high on an errant throw.

      So far, Murphy has prevented the clean execution of six double plays through five games. If that doesn’t alarm you, it should.

      It certainly alarmed Keith Hernandez who was one of the best defensive infielders of his era. “That’s another inning extended for Dillon Gee because of Daniel Murphy.” Or something very similar to that is what he said in the fourth or fifth inning.
  • Metsr1 April 11, 2012 at 8:24 am

    As lousy as Murphy is defensively, he needs to go back to left field in favor of the bum that is Jason Bay. You have to keep his bat in the line up. The Mets are always trying to bang square pegs into round holes. Look at all of the out of position players they’ve tried and remember how badly it went…Juan Samuel, Keith Miller, Hojo, Jefferies, Hundley). Murphy can’t kill you as badly in left as he will at 2B. The routine plays must be made and he isn’t a 2B. He’s a DH.
  • Seligman April 11, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Why is it always assumed that your worst defenders should be hidden at first base? First base is your first line of defense. No other position is involved in more defensive plays on batted balls than your first baseman, more than twice the involvement than the next position. Your first baseman is the captain of the guard defensively. You heard the phrase all roads lead to Rome? Well in baseball it’s all throws lead to first. Show me a terrible defender at first base and I’ll show you an infield defense ranked at the bottom.
    • tampametsfan April 11, 2012 at 11:58 am

      Murphy has shown he cam’t play outfield and that makes sense where a player has to read the ball coming off the bat. At first base the guy just stands there waiting for the throw. It helps to have a defensive first baseman but most are offensive players and not great at defense. Its the DH of the NL.
• MetsFan96 April 11, 2012 at 2:37 am

  why the hell would you change your line-up that drastically when your on a 4 game winning streak to start the season?
• Nathan April 11, 2012 at 7:55 am

  Last nights game was an interesting microcasim to a problem that has plagued the Mets for recent years, a complete lack of depth. Watching a game and reading about it tend to give rise to differeing opinions about what went on. The defense was completely junk last night, there was two or three botched double plays and there was a play at the plate that Turner cut off inexplicably. Now great pitchers may be able to recover from such shoddy play but Gee does not have that kind of stuff. He pitched his game and did a good job of it unfortunetly the defense let him down and instead of being charged with one run he was charged with three and the Mets lost. At the plate the team refused to swing at first pitch strikes which led to them being behind in the count all night. This is a consequence of preaching patience at the plate. Instead of laying off bad pitches they just lay off all pitches until they have two strikes.
  • t agee April 11, 2012 at 9:21 am

    They haven’t been laying off ALL pitches until they get two strikes though. One thing they have made important to other teams is hitting them with a strike on the first pitch and that’s really going to pay dividends down the road with runners in scoring position.

    Try to keep in mind that the team was missing their #3 and #4 hitters and that even under the best circumstances few hitters get a hit even 33% of the time so it’s not hard to believe that the whole team might hit a flat spot once in a while especially with their #3 and #4 hitter out of the lineup and especially again with so many LH hitters in the lineup and facing a LHP and no RH hitter to step up.
• Alex68 April 11, 2012 at 8:00 am

  Sigh…… Ok, now i can drink my coffee and post about baseball.. Here we go, The defense, we all knew was gonna be bad or below average on certain areas, so this should come at no surprise, this won’t be the only game where our defense will cost us the game or at least a chance to keep it close, also, lefties are literally killin us, so far on the year we’re 13-56 (232) 0 HR and only 4 RS, Somebody gotta help all those lefties in the lineup, as they’re hitting 170 with 10 K’s in only 30 at bats.. It’s early to go crazy with numbers but it seems that lefties will give this team problems specially if bay can’t even hit the lefties. I know wright was out, but that lineup TC put out last night was as weak as they come.. Bad job by TC but you kinda understand him wanting to give ike the night off. Also, 18 runs is 5 games, i thought this team were gonna score more runs?? No??
  We lost one game on bad overall baseball, let’s go out today and try to right the ship..
  • trs86 April 11, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Amazing how you come in with your I told you so attitude today. You seem much more happy and comfortable today. I know you felt akward and out of your element with the team playing well.
  • Alex68 April 11, 2012 at 9:58 am

    What the hell are you talking about?? what exactly did i say that reflect to the “i told you so” attitude you F***** as*****??? Did i say anything negative or that we did not know was gonna happen? even good defensive teams have days like this so to us this shouldn’t be a surprise because as you and others have pointed out, defense is not our strongest suit.. Stop being such an as***** this morning because i did not say anything wrong.. I thought joe D made it clear to you and your little crew to not do MMO any favors by bringin here to poke the stick as your boy said the other day, the season started already and y’all still hanging around.. Guess you’re not as honest as you said you are and this blog is pretty good
    • trs86 April 11, 2012 at 10:07 am

      Oh I already told you that you helped me change my mind. I will be here some all season. I have to help control the ignorance population by having them spayed or neutered.

      Back to your point a healthy Wright and.Duda/ Davis hitting will score plenty of runs it’s on the pitching and defense.
    • Alex68 April 11, 2012 at 10:20 am

      again, as i said and you should know this, it’s all about confidence, if a hitter like duda and/or davis can’t hit the lefties, how soon till they may be struggling mentaly and can’t hit anybody? things like this happen all the time, And too bad, it seems you still think you’re smarter than everyone, you think you got it all figure out, i am glad you are still here, sooner or later you’d recognize your little blog is a failure and you need this fuming pile (AS YOU HAVE SAID MMO IS) so people have interest in you somehow! You’re one of the worst ppl here, not sure how someone can sh** on a blog, then be part of it 24/7
      • jessep April 11, 2012 at 10:25 am

        “again, as i said and you should know this, it’s all about confidence, if a hitter like duda and/or davis can’t hit the lefties”

        Probably worth noting in 2010, Ike Davis hit .295 against lefties in 122 AB.

        He’s 0 for the season, I think he should have played yesterday to be honest. Even Keith said the same thing, don’t let him sit on the bench with an 0fer just because a lefty is throwing. He’s not incapable of hitting lefties.
        • trs86 April 11, 2012 at 10:39 am

          I think the reason Ike sat had more to do with and I think he would have played had they known early about Wright.
      • Alex68 April 11, 2012 at 10:35 am

        I am talking this year though jesseP, so far they have not hit lefties, the whole team has not hit lefties well. I have faith both of them will but often times players lose their confidence against lefties then righties, next thing you know the player can’t hit against anyone… (see Jayson Heyward last year)
        • jessep April 11, 2012 at 10:58 am

          I’m sure Heyward’s shoulder problems have nothing to do with his problems at the plate right? It’s all about being able to hit lefties…. right.
          • Vinny B April 11, 2012 at 11:17 am

            I thought they said his shoulder was fully healed?
            • jessep April 11, 2012 at 11:38 am

              Vinny – I am sure by now it is. My point is, David Wright had a bad back and it impacted his approach at the plate even after he was healthy. A shoulder injury can do the same.

              I think people forget one very important detail regarding Jason Heyward. He’s 22 years old. That’s 3 years younger than Ike Davis, 4 years younger than Lucas Duda.

              I’m not a Heyward fan. I honestly could care less about him. I appreciate the fact he’s a kid and has talent though.

              Consider that since 2000 there have only been 4 hitters age 20 or younger to qualify with enough MLB at bats. Miguel Cabrera, Elvis Andrus, Starlin Castro and Jason Heyward. Only Cabrera had more RBI than Heyward.

              People here talk about Heyward like he’s a 27 year old who had 1 good year and vanished. Last year was a bad year for him, this year he’s started slow. Maybe he’ll have another bad year… who knows. but he still likely has 8-12 years left before you need to judge him.

              You can make a very serious argument that Heyward was rushed to the big leagues since he played 5 games in AAA and only 47 in AA. That’s not a slight on Heyward’s talents it is a knock on the Braves folding under the pressure of calling up a young phenom. Something Washington is trying to avoid with Harper.
              • Vinny B April 11, 2012 at 12:16 pm

                Heyward was born in 89, and Davis was born in 87. That’s not THAT big of a difference.

                I don’t think anyone is saying that hewyard will never be a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he’s ever going to a superstar player. I think he can hit maybe 25-30HR’s, but he may hit .240 or .250 doing it.
      • trs86 April 11, 2012 at 10:36 am

        Thanks for the advertisement again.
        I keep saying this is the best Mets blog but you never read that. The Fuming Pile is where you and the core run to hide when you are proven wrong. What goes on in there is an embarrassment to this fine site.
        • Alex68 April 11, 2012 at 11:05 am

          You mean just as your buddy kingman you’ve never said you come here to amuse yourself??
          • trs86 April 11, 2012 at 11:25 am

            I come here for the content but stay for the show. Does Joe pay you guys to make the comments you make? You can’t come up with them on your own
• Donal April 11, 2012 at 8:20 am

  It’ll happen. The defense was a weak point going in. The middle of the order needs to break this funk they are in and score some runs.

  Still, 5 out of 6 to start the season is a good thing.
• Lifelongmetsfan April 11, 2012 at 8:42 am

  Why can’t Duda catch a fly ball?
  • Nathan April 11, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Because it is hard to do.
    • Lifelongmetsfan April 11, 2012 at 9:10 am

      But I watch Sports Center, I don’t see other baseball teams not being able to catch a fly ball.
      2x this has happened in the first 4 games that we do not catch the fly ball.
      Our team is not good at catching fly-balls.
  • Donal April 11, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Because he is not a very good fielder.
• Even Flow April 11, 2012 at 9:24 am

  The GOAT of the game was Murphy? How about the METS ENTIRE OFFENSE not showing up when they needed to? For instance, Ike couldn’t come through again with runners in the corners with 2 outs for the second straight game! How about the first inning when Tejada & Cedeno got on but nobody brought them in? It wasn’t until many innings later when Ronny Cedeno got a hit. Murph’s error was a killer, but let’s be real. The offense came WAY too late.
• USMF April 11, 2012 at 9:28 am

  Relax everyone..it’s one game and no one should be surprised at what we saw.

  I thought Gee pitched a solid game.

  Muprh and Duda had a bad game in the field and at the plate.

  Bay and Ike are trying to swing their way out of their slumps…that never works.

  This is the problem with this team. with the complete lack of depth, you sit two key players and the the weakness come roaring to the front.

  Muprh is inexperienced at 2nd, he rushes everyone of those plays. Give him some time and he should get better, let’s give him this season to see if he can get it down.

  Even Tejada has shown his inexperience already this year.

  Duda is still feeling out the walls, he needs a strong CF to be vocal to help him track those balls.

  With Ike out of the lineup, we are forced to see our 3rd best option at 1st, sadly because Wright missed all of spring, Turner didn’t get any time at first base.

  This whole year is a work in progress. Try to enjoy the wins, don’t go nuts about the losses.

  It just shows that our starting line up is pretty good and can win games, any loss from those players and we’re going to see some sloppy games.

  For the record…Murph’s bat has helped win 4 games, his poor D and helped loss 1 game.
  • t agee April 11, 2012 at 10:10 am

    Good point about Murphy helping to win 4 games and costing just one. The fact is that his bat is vital to the lineup. Absolutely critical and that’s why he’s in there.

    Even with a young cornerstone such as Wright or Reyes someone has to play 3B and SS in the minors and some guys just won’t adapt to another position at the ML level in a timely enough fashion to combine good or even adequate defense with their prime meaning their just never going to put it all together at the same time.

    It takes millions of reps for some guys to just be competent when they get up here in one way or another and the guys more able to make those switches are found in the first couple of rounds or later round tool based guys or internationally. That’s why a slowdown in the system based on one and two year signings that don’t take away from infusing true talent into the system is so critical.
    • USMF April 11, 2012 at 11:08 am

      I am a Murphy fan, I’l admit it. He’s a great hitter, a vocal leader,a hustler and an underdog.

      I know that his lack of experience at any position is his biggest down fall. I think he has the all the abilities to be a average 2nd basemen if not a good one. He’s never going to look graceful and make a lot of acrobatic-jaw dropping-wow plays. But he has the ability to play 2nd everyday …what he lacks is the ability.

      But I also try to be fair…there have been assumptions that Murphs bad D and overly aggressive base running will cost the Mets more wins than his bat will help win. I thought it to be interesting to see if that’s really the case. So I’ll try to keep a running tally going as long as I can. It will be interesting to see the final outcome. Of course there will be games that Murph didn’t do anything that effected the outcome of the game and his bad D might cost a run, but his good bat created a run, so those days will have to be balanced out.
• Seligman April 11, 2012 at 9:51 am

  I take issue with your title. Gee did not struggle his defense did. The least that Gee or any pitcher should be able to rely upon is that his defense executes the groundballs he induces with a runner on base. Gee immediately gave up a homerun but settled down and pitched very effectively the rest of the way. He had to pitch in too many innings that were extended because of Murphy’s failure to execute. All those extra pitches added to his workload until he reached his limit and was removed from the game.
  • USMF April 11, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Another point missed, I have no idea what kind of strike zone that ump had, but I’ve never seen a guy squeeze the corners so much but call the ball shoulder level a strike.

    Gee is a guy who needs the corners to be successful…and Parnell had a couple of K’s that he didn’t get because of the tall and narrow zone.

    I don’t know what’s going on this year, but the Umpiring has been pretty bad.

    I hate the idea of instant replay in baseball, but these guys are making it pretty had to defend the “purity” and “human factor” of the game.

    Wait, I have an idea! Lets actually pay umpires in the minor leagues and train them so they can become decent at their jobs when they get to the show. Most of the bad calls I see are because the umps are out of position.

    Wait, another idea! on close plays when a manager argues, why not have the crew chief decide if another ump had a better view of the play and have a quick conference to try to get the call right.
  • tampametsfan April 11, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Gee is a very very very overrated pitcher who was crippled by the defense behind him. I have never been impressed with Gee, he just got lucky last year. That being said, Collins did a crappy job of managing the team. He really isn’t a good manager but he is good with the players which is why the Mets are holding on to him until they rebuild. I am sure he will be gone in a few years after the Mets recover.
  • Sean Kenny April 11, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Gee was hit hard, thats why. Pelfrey was hit hard the night before. Gee was charged with the runs on base for Murphy’s error. He mixed pitches well at points, but all of the contact that was made were hard. Hard singles, hard doubles. It took Gee over 100 pitches to get through 5 1/3. To be successful and not kill the bullpen, every Mets starter should be able to go six. Gee got through ONE clean inning. Every other inning at least one baserunner.
• jdon April 11, 2012 at 12:48 pm

  To me, Gee is a 1 pitch pitcher. He has essentially become change up crazy. I saw more curves last night but he had a much better one 2 years ago. Abandoning it last year has hurt his ability to throw it as well as he used to. His fastball is garbage. He should use at least two pitches, three if he improves on his cutter. His 4 seam fastball to me is a negative.
• Gary S. April 11, 2012 at 4:53 pm

  After watching today’s snooze feat,they better lock up Wright long term.Without Reyes and Wright they will not draw flies.