13
2012
Time For Prevention and Recovery 2.0
An article by 
How has this worked out for the Mets?
The Mets’ medical staff has been under scrutiny for years, but maybe it is time to re-evaluate the team’s off-season and spring training conditioning programs.
All these suggestions are preventable, and honestly, inexcusable. One or two issues is one thing, but the Mets have seven players ailing since spring training. That doesn’t suggest a team with a handle on things.
Wright, Kirk Niewenhuis, Scott Hairston, and Robert Carson have side muscle injuries. Lucas Duda, Daniel Herrera and Reese Havens have back issues. To be fair, I don’t know what it is like with these injuries in other camps, but seven is an epidemic.
Either the players haven’t been schooled or given the proper conditioning programs, the teaching of such is inadequate, or these guys don’t know what they are doing. When it comes to the body core, flexibility is as important as strength.
When Sandy Alderson and Collins took over last year, they promised a return to basics and fundamentals, and that should include conditioning, too. The Mets aren’t a team that can afford any setbacks, and this shouldn’t be occurring, at least not to this degree.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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just based on track record over the last few years, it seems clear that the whole training staff deserves to be cut loose and replaced with new people. Because this ain’t working.
Many posters like to make fun of the HHS (Drs.) and they aren’t the problem. They only get the players after they are broken. And they don’t control what the team does with recommendations, or if they know how to implement a recovery plan.
May not all be on the training staff. We’re talking about an extrememly macho, Type-A personality bunch here. We know of instances where players had legit medical concerns (concussion symptoms and possible broken bones) and had their manhood questioned by the coaches and executives. “Spit on it and go play”.
Trainers, like the HSS doctors, can only do so much when they aren’t getting cooperation.
well, there was a lot of change already in those areas. So unless the new guys are doing the same things as the old guys, what is left to change?
Still a bunch of pro athletes that have their own habits and ideas about their bodies.
And, to my knowledge, the Mets have not sent anyone with a concussion on a cross country flight in the last 18 months or so. Or told a guy with a torn up knee to be a man and play.
If you look at other teams’ injury reports, you’ll see pretty much the same thing. Muscle injuries and stuff from guys who either overworked themselves or worked on the wrong stuff in the off season.
STICK, RIGHT SENTIMENT; WRONG TARGET. WE NEED TO GET RID OF…JEFF BFTSPLK*
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7y_UEtDDU8M/Tw_oaS6Jj2I/AAAAAAAAErc/ZWa5omY5Q0E/s1600/joe_btfsplk.jpg
PRONOUNCED BFTS,insert “rasberry or bronx cheer” sound, per CREATOR AL CAPP.
I MAY BE PREJUDICED; BUT I DISTINCTLY SEE A PROFILE RESEMPLENCE TO OUR C.UH..OH!. SINCE ’02, JEFF WILPON AND AS WITH CAPP’S JOE; MISFORTUNE COMES DOWN ON THOSE CLOSEST IN PROXIMITY TO JOE, JUST AS IT DOES TO THOSE THAT SURROUND JEFF.
I SUBMIT, THE ONLY CONSISTANT RESIDENT OF THE FRONT OFFICE THROUGHOUT ALL OF THESE HORRENDOUS UNFORTUNATE INJURY SERIES(MAJORS & MINORS) HAS BEEN THE C.UH.OH. “JEFFREY BFTSPLK WILPON”
I think before we can make much of an assertion we would need to know what the injury rates for other teams in Florida camps are.
as usual with your group there is never any blame, you would think the mets win it every yr, the whole staff and anybody involved should have been canned long ago, allowing church to fly cross county with a concussion is not excusable & that is only the tip of the iceberg
i guess he’s looking for what you would call the “League average for injuries”
smh
But if you are going to fire the whole operation for being incompetent, wouldn’t it be good to know if the team is even having more injury issues like this than other teams? What if it turns out this is “normal” for the industry?
And with Church (pretty sure, I know with bay) they did not know he had a concussion or he did not have symptoms. Not fair to imply they knew the guy sufferered an obvious concussion and they just threw him on a plane anyway.
Stick they all should have been sacked after bungling the Beltan Injury! Not a single change in the Medical Staff has been made to date! Why hasn’t Sandy done something about it yet?
Why do people insist on making excuses for these guys at every turn?
Where was all this forgiveness when Omar was here?
He at least made it to the playoffs once and fought for playing in them deep into september them two years more after that!
Was then crucified for the injuries the PLAYERS had in 2009 and (because of the botched diagnosis on Beltran) 2010 and indicted for not having replacements available to fill in those injuries Yet it’s fine we are going to rush an A ball Pitcher to this “Only thing that matters to Sandy” Bullpen!
Where were all these MET FANS then?
And why would anyone making excuses for repeated mistakes make someone a better mat fan than someone who is demanding more from their team?
I seem to recall they were dumping all over the team/FO for mishandling the injury situations (making guys play instead of going on DL, shots instead of surgery, etc.).
IOW, largely ignoring the advice of the doctors, and doing what they wanted, even at the risk of the players LT health.
Omar even came out and said they didn’t always follow the medical advice if it didn’t fit the broader agenda.
Right! And the one thing that was key in getting Omar fired has not changed at all has it?
What has been the treatment for all these injuries?
the same rest up and I’ll shoot you up with Cortisone!
If we really are concerned with keeping our team healthy we have to stop worrying about the player history and start looking at the medical history of our medical team!
STICK, IF IT WERE “NORMAL” WOULDN’T THE MUCH OLDER CROWD FRO ACROSS THE BRIDGE BE SCROUNGING TO PUT BOTH AN A & B LINEUP ON THE FIELD &ON A BUS SIMULTANEOUSLY.
AS WE’VE CONTRACTED WITH THE BEST ORTHOPEDIC HOSPITAL IN THE CITY TO PERFORM OR ASSESS ALL MEDICAL EVALUATIONS & PROCEDURES; IS IT ANY WONDER WHY TRHERE IS SO MUCH CONFUSION OVER “SOFT TISSUE RELATED CONDITIONS ie TEARS, FEVERS, THYROID ISSUES.
@ AGE 62, I FIND MY HEALTH BETTER MANAGED BY AN INTERNIST, WHO ANNUALLY RUNS MY PHYSICAL RELYING UPON SPECIFIC SPECIALISTS HEADING UP INDIVIDUAL MEDICAL CONCERNS. MY THYROIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MY ENDOCHRONOLOGIST, MY ALLERGIES, MY ALLERGIST, MY HERNIATED DISCS & BONE SPUR ISSUES TO A SPECIALIST ORTHO SURGICAL TEAM.
CERTAINLY A GERNERALIST LIKE A COMPETANT INTERNIST IS BEST EQUIPPED TO ORCHESTRATE ALL OF THE POTENTIAL ISSUES AT MY AGE AND CERTAINLY NO LESS EQUIPPED FOR THE POTENTIAL MYRIAD OF GENERAL ISSUES CONFRONTED BY 25+ PRIME AGED ATHLETES
WHILE ORTHOPEDICS CERTAINLY SEM THE MOST OFTEN REQUIRED SPECIALTY, I BELIEVE WE ARE BEING POORLY SERVED BY STARTING THERE INSTEAD OF FINISHING THERE HSS IS AN EXCELLENT REFERAL DESTINATION WHEN APPLICABLE; HOWEVER IT IS NOT, INO, THE BEST STARTING POINT FOR WHATEVER AILES PETER JOCK OR HIS TEAMMATES.
so far, you owe me $20, but I haven’t gone looking for more statements from you recently.
By the way, don’t you think it is a good idea to see if there is in fact a reason to fire people before you go firing them? Instead of giving in to this base desire to see “action”, how about we make sure we really have a problem?
Here is your reason….
He made a 79 win team a 77 Win team!
And if he loses more games this year there will be PLENTY of reasons to fire him if Wilpon was inclined to do so!
Cause if everyone Agreed with your “Check Is In The Mail, Just Wait For It” excuse for keeping him, no GM would be fired EVER!
Omar was fired for having two consecutive losing teams! Hell he even added 9 wins in 2010 from 2009 and he STILL got fired!
Sandy lost two games last year and how many will he lose this year?
Well we are going to find out now aren’t we?
And if he loses MORE games then there will plenty of reason to call for his head!
One the discussion was not about Sandy… I know hard to believe huh?
Two do you honestly think that Omar was fired JUST because of wins and losses?
I also love how you refuse to ever let payroll be part of the discussion. What was Omar’s payroll restrictions during that time and what is Sandy’s? If you honestly think that payroll doesn’t matter and you should judge both just on wins and losses then again why are we still discussing this point? We would never agree and are wasting the tips of our fingers.
So tell us Donal what your reason was for firing Minaya?
Well Bay, it was in part because we were spending more than any other team and had failed in doing so. It was in part because the minors were ranked -10. It was mostly because there were PR disasters left, right, in the middle and on top. Again, I was an Omar supporter and most on here know that. However, the Rubin incident to me sealed the deal. It was time to move on.
The Rubin thing didn’t bother me and personally I think Minaya had a very valid reason to bring it up. The Bernazard locker room thing didn’t bother me either cause sports aren’t like an office boardroom. I found it a little freaky and weird. I mean can you imagine be challenged to fight your bosses bosses boss who’s fifty something when your 22? What do you do? Strange position to be in.
Bernazard did a poor job in development. That’s why he should’ve been canned but he never would have been for that reason.
Minaya got canned because his vision was limited only to those players we already had, were free to negotiate with anyone or were being made available by their current teams. That doesn’t usually lead to the best results. Progressively the results got worse and worse going from real good ( Beltran) to good but short (Pedro, Delgado, Wagner, Alou) to just bad (Castillo, Perez, Bay) Since his first off season only K-Rod performed to the level of his contract.
Add in the big IFA’s stagnating (Fern, Lagares (at the time), Flores, Marte, Aderlain, Pena, Urbina) and the high draft picks stalling or busting Kunz, Vineyard, Rustich, Moviel, Niessen, Clyne, Holt, Havens, Rodriguez, Matz and Shields and that combined with poor decisions on Putz, Schowenweiss, late season collapses, mishandling injuries but a fair percentage of the draft results had to do with the budget and the handling of injuries and DL decisions with the need to keep ticket sales coming in.
Omar could have taken his time in building a team.
That was his stated plan when he was hired.
He made some hold the fort moves with Cairo and Mientcavage along with Beltran and Pedro and while Pedro couldn’t have been expected to last all 4 years there was a good chance for two ace type years and maybe some good starts in 2007 and 2008 as well.
No one was expecting us to be in the post season in just two years. Not with the condition of the farm when he arrived.
The same things that are being said about Alderson now might have been said about him then and were said about Gene Michael in the early 90′s but if your plan is to just see who’s available for every need, every off season you’ll never get anywhere.
You cannot build a sustainable winner by getting competitive with short shelf free agents that cost your best draft picks and deplete depth from the farm with multiple 3 and 4-1 prospect type trades. Not from where it was when Minaya was hired.
He has the talent to get decent under valued players like Valentin, El-Duque, Maine, Perez, Sanchez, Easley, Tatis, Endy, Pagan, Figgy, Castro, Dickey but with so many holes on this team he felt he had to stay on these guys which begs the question, if there were still so many holes should we really have been addressing so many needs that took away from a rebuild below or should we have slowed things down a bit until we could field a consistent solid winner with some longer term solutions in place.
he DID take his time building a team and your seeing the reslt of that build come to bear fruit!
Tejada, Davis, Duda, Gee, Mejia, Familia, Harvey, Capt Kirk, Havens….
But he did not let that building get in the way from making the team competitive!
He proved you CAN do both!
If Harvey and Familia are everything we are hoping they are then you have to say he was qite successful despite all you say about those picks he didn’t make because he was staying competitive!
You know we’re talking about the training staff, right?
But, I’m the one who obsesses and worships Alderson. Just like how eveyrone alex berates are obsessed with Wright.
There does seem to be a rash of muscle-type injuries this ST and maybe there is something that they can do better. But I wouldn’t go as far as to say none of these players know proper conditioning or that they are schooling these players completely wrong. If that was the case we probably would have had similar high incidence of these types of injuries in years past as well. Maybe there is some issue there with Havens since he’s had a lot of repeat injuries, but again there is no way of knowing for sure at this point. The Mets have had a ton of injuries in recent years, but its not like they’ve just been muscle issues.
And “all of these things are preventable” doesn’t really mean much of anything at this point. Its just TC ijust tossing ideas out there b/c he has no idea at this point. “Too much weight training?” well how much is too much exactly? What changes will “prevent” problems? “working too hard pre-game?” Well how much BP is exactly enough for them to feel like they’ve gotten their work in their swing is sound, but not too much that might increase injury risk? “Not enough stretching?” How much is “enough” stretching?
Maybe at somepoint they will figure something out, but this far…What are you going to do never let these guys work hard on anything else other than stretching?
well, some guys end up with underlying issues that make their condition chronic (and Havens after a string of issues and a surgery could be in that category now). But it does seem odd to have so many guys that have not have major problems with those areas to suddenly all come down with the same injury?
I do agree it is odd to see so many of these things at the same time and maybe there is some related cause…I just don’t think its been identified yet.
I think if it was the case that these players had no idea who to condition themselves they likely WOULD have had repeat problems and issues would have cropped up before this year. Maybe some of them have….I don’t know anything about Carson, but guys like Wright have been around for awhile and hasn’t had these type of injuries, Hairston I don’t think had an issue until last yr.
*thats “how” to condition themselves not “who” to condition themselves…geez.
For the most part ‘winning cures everything’.
I have a theory that these rash of more muscle/hamstring/back type problems these past few years are b/c players are probably either tinkering, over doing it, changing any and everything they can change to either get back to a level of success they had in the past – or prove they belong on the team by the success they achieve on the field, on the mound, at the plate.
I’ve read about extra batting practice for some, additional weight training for others, longer BP sessions for some pitchers. Maybe it is all related somehow.
Just start winning……
Maybe it’s as easy as limiting swings and throws in the beginning and gradually stepping them up. A week or two into ST is when you would expect soreness to take hold if the bodies not conditioned for all those swings and throws.
Personally I would think that taking BP and throwing would be a part of an off season workout program and the rib cage would be conditioned for a ramping up of those activities come Feb 21st or so bet it doesn’t appear to be the case.
No amount of working out can exactly reproduce the strain on a particular area except the actual activity that causes that strain and that has to be broken into gradually which is very hard when you get out on the field and start hitting and throwing. Very easy to overdue it.
100 swings and 100 throws every other day starting Jan 2nd and increasing by 15 or so each time should have this area prepared for ST.
100 swings & 100 throws every other day until ST starts…..starting the day after New Year’s??
That’s just insane! They need the time off
The thing is very few of them “take time off” anymore. They spend their entire off-season minus maybe the holidays and a vacation or two, working out at these new facilities. Who was it Havens that moved in with Ike just so he could work out everyday in Arizona? Hell Ike got his disease from being there working out, LOL.
As a HS basketball coach I find trying to play the medium very difficult. We just ended our season around the Feb 18th. I force the guys to take a month off for my sanity and yet they still want to come in and shoot, workout… etc. I do not let them at school so then they go out and find somewhere to do it anyway. Not only that, how do you tell a player wanting to work “Hey I am glad you want to get better and put the time in but lets wait…”
look, you could’ve thought of this yourself but you like to follow me around and disagree just for the sake of it, even if you really intended to disagree with the person i’m responding to.
I don’t like responding to you, I dont’ like you, i think you’re an idiot who likes coat-tailing this site and like to put words in people’s mouths but i’ll say something this time.
What they do on their own time is their business and as long as they don’t hurt themselves it’s fine. Ordering the team as a whole to do 100 swings & throws every other day starting the day after New Year’s and lasting until ST is an ENTIRELY different story so your response is really off topic. Respond to the other guy, not me – i’d actually prefer if you don’t respond to me at all but that wont’ stop you cuz you are who you are – a loser
LOL, yes ser massa. You been gettin those issues of The South Gonna Do It Again? Mr. Lee?
where’s srt on this? Oh wait she doesn’t admonish people she philosophically agrees with but I guarantee you – substitute the name “alex68″ for “trs86″ and she’s out here in a flash.
anyway that’s where this ends because this stuff gets boring for other readers. I’ll make it end otherwise people like trs will go on and on and on. The guy is a prime je*koff. He’l be here w/ a last word no doubt
The war is over buddy, it’s ok. Your thoughts are a dying breed and baseball is leaving you behind. I can’t imagine how bitter that makes you.
yep, winning is not the objective anymore rather it’s trying to be clever and rationalizing losing with numbers that’s more en vogue now – not winning. Let’s learn more about numbers so it can look like you understand baseball when you never will on your best day even be close to me and others with actual experience – on our worse.
Winning is not en-vogue here anymore so you’re right. Oh and can’t wait for all these minor leagues that sandy will develop only to be traded if he feels the team is not good enough to contend – i mean why bother trying to get a few pieces to contend when you can trade young talent for younger talent.
so you’re right – Winning is not of prime importance here anymore. Okay that’s enough, i acknowledged the little man jumping up and down looking for attention enough. Now Go try and resurrect your stupid little blog
LOL, again you think you can get me with your ignorance about my blog. (Over 1 million views since it was moved.)
How about providing us any proof whatsoever that your eyes are better than the people in charge of the Mets and if so then why aren’t you working for a MLB team?
The ideas for baseball and what GM’s, scouts, managers and players have changed so much and I don’t think you feel like you are intelligent enough to adjust so you just refuse to entertain the idea that they bring a lot to the game. I imagine 100 years ago when BA was laughed at as an accurate measure there were some others who feel like you now and they were most likely bitter too. Unfortunately for them they did not have a blog to ruin with their drivel.
Again, off topic and purposely so just to call someone a name.
Keen insight.
A whole rant to say how he doesn’t like or want to talk to the guy. and continually responds.
It’s like that commercial of the girl calling her boyfriend to tell him she’s giving him the silent treatment.
And yet another post about a poster not baseball!
Gotta give you credit at least your consistent!
Shh, grown ups talking. Keep quiet and take notes.
Shh, grown ups talking. Keep quiet and take notes”
GROWN UPS??? AREN’T YOU LIKE 22???? WITH NO JOB?!?!
3 months off seems like enough time to let the aches and pains heal up.
I’m not having the entire team start workouts the say after New Years and besides..you can’t do it anyway – um, Player’s Union?
But anyway the real issue at hand is unnecessary weight-lifting. Baseball is not that type of game and we already went over that.
Your not having the entire do anything except get a good laugh every once in a while.
And no. I wasn’t talking about starting ST on January 2nd, I was talking about players individual off season workouts.
Jeez, now everything has to be explained.
100 swings and throws every other day is barely anything.
It’s basically starting at a crawl and working up to a full gallop at the end of February.
oh no? Than clarify this:
“100 swings and 100 throws every other day starting Jan 2nd and increasing by 15 or so each time should have this area prepared for ST.”
It is what it is.
You said it. Was there a hidden meaning that we are not privy to that we all should have known?
That’s all i’m saying on this matter cuz you KNOW this second guessing CLOWN will never take no for an answer and always will have the last word – thats something you usually outgrow in your teens.If you dont let him have the last word a simple post becomes a 100 comment back n forth.
But that’s how this dishonest cretin operates – the internet is the perfect vehicle for people like him because their arguments in real life would be smashed in under 5 minutes. But with the internet your posts can suddenly have “many meanings” so he’s in the clear no matter what he says
You know what I find amazing? You are trying to get the last word in by saying that others always have to get the last word in. Basically challenging them to make a comment because you have said they have to get the last word in. Isn’t this like Pee Wee Herman? I know you are but what am I?
What it is is just a slow and steady build up to ST.
Everyone here is already familiar with the concept of the required date a player must be present in ST.
If your unsure of what someone means by something they say just ask them instead of trying to engage in yet another ridiculous argument over something they didn’t say which IMO is the only reason you come here.
I already gave you guys the reason for all these Rib and Back injuries!
We moved in the fences and everyone is HR happy!
The first major Batting practice was at the field that was set up to be like Citifields new HR Happy fences!
And what did they all do?
Try to hit balls out of it, overswung and pulled the obliques, ribs and back muscles that are now keeping them from doing their regular spring work!
When the majority of your injuries are the same throughout the roster then it was something the ENTIRE TEAM DID that is the common denominator!
And what the team did was run a HR derby the second day of spring Training becuase of a dumb over focus on the long ball!
We don’t have the bash Brothers on this team!
We are not a HR hitting team, We hit some but no one on this team has ever achieved 40+ HRs, yet that is what we focused on two days into ST!
Lot of truth in that posting.
And I firmly believe Wright’s back issues last year were also in part due to him overstressing it by swinging for those fences!
The problem with many MLB players who lose it is they easily fall in love with the long ball, Adjust their swing to get them and as a result lose all the fundemental mechanics needed to maintain your average!
That was Pagan’s problem last year if you ask me!
It got into his head that he needed to hit more HRs and tried to and lost .020 off his BA!
And that loss was taken to the field costing him the only thing no one had any doubts about his ability to play a fairly solid if not spectacular CF!
The last thing any manager, GM or franchise should do is try to get more HRs out of the players they have!
All it does it make players overswing, ruining their mechanics, losing balance, and when you swing as hard as you can and MISS the baseball what you left with are Rib, Oblique and Back injuries because you swung harder than your body is actually capable of handling!
Just as being patient at the plate is important to getting the pitches you can hit, Being patient with the Long ball is important to success of the other 450 Abs you WILL NOT hit a HR!
Even if a guy hits 40+ Hrs on a regular basis, he should be working to improve the other 450 Abs where he won’t hit one, not try to make 10 or 20 more Abs a HR!
Collins screwed up by putting the long ball in their head! Cause we know full well that an injury to the head will lead to injuries in other areas because the body is apt to respond to what the head tells it to do!
Even if it isn’t up to task the head set for it!
That said it’s not a fireable offense on Collins part it is a dumb mistake I expect from a rookie manager not a guy like Collins!
And I’m not even sure it was Collins’ call!
That whole episode seemed more like a Marketing play than a regular Spring Training regimen!
And now I think that play cost us in preperatory work!
I have said for years that what “messed up” Wright (along with the beanball) was conciously trying to change his whole approach to get mroe HRs.
Even in year 1 of Citi he was having a very good year, driving the ball up the alleys, getting on base, etc. But, his HR total was down, and that was all you heard about (as if he was somehow having a terrible year, ruined, whatever).
so he got with hojo (never a good start!) and decided to become a big swing, sell out hacker to try and generate more HRs, and that was shat spiralled into the spike in Ks, drop in OBP, and general decline 9including in the ever popular clutch (big hit) area).
So, just my guess, but if he had stayed doing what he was doing, maybe he would have dropped to a 20 or so HR guy, but he would overall be a ton more valuable and leading the league in doubles say.
To quote Clint….
A Man Has got to Know his Limitations!!!!!
If they stay within themselves they won’t need 40 Hrs because they might have 130 RBI!
You think it’s also possible that these guys have became part of a culture that does not know how to play through aches and pains? Are you hurt or injured?
Nope….It’s not the players it’s the team who is the one who is overcautious!
Very possible.
That was what led to my question of is this a Mets issue or a baseball related issue? I am just curious if many of the other teams have the same issue or is it something the Mets are doing specifically.
Now Tejada…
Again, the focus should be on the why.
As already been said by some here there has been more muscle related injuries. Is it more than normal I can’t honestly say but the sense it that it is. Still while it is always a good practice to reevaluate to see if these type of injuries can be avoided the variety and seriousness of these muscle related injuries have been wide enough where I am not sure it is due to something the team is doing.
Torres had a tight glute and has since returned to the lineup. Duda a stiff back and has since returned to the lineup. Wright had a cortisone but has continuously said that his rib cage stiffness was not serious enough where he would be kept out of the lineup come regular season. If that is indeed the case regarding Wright who knows but the point is with a lil over 3 weeks to go before the season there is no need to have Wright play even if it is just a mild discomfort and Havens a injury prone player had a stiff back just about as soon as he camp started.
Hairston is for now at least the most serious of the strains and Capt Kirk I haven’t read an update on his strain since it’s original reporting.
Odds are when all is said and done these strains are the results of a number of different combination of things.
I’m finding something else to do this year. I can’t take anymore of this circus.
[...] An article by John Delcos 23 Comments [...]
A little late for comment here, but google spring training injury reports for 2012 and you will find reports on most teams. It happens to everyone….every year. Relax.