12
2012
Tim Byrdak Out 6 Weeks, Josh Edgin Moves To Major League Camp
An article by Hojo's Mojo
Updated 1:45 PM
The Mets have just announced that Tim Byrdak is expected to be out for six weeks, and that LHP Josh Edgin is moving to major league camp.
Good news for Edgin.
Here is an MMO Exclusive Interview our own Pete Shapiro conducted with Josh Edgin last month.
Original Post 10:00 AM
Left-handed reliever Tim Byrdak will have surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his left knee, a team official has confirmed.
Byrdak had been complaining of a sore knee that has bothered him the last few weeks.
He was sent to New York this morning for further testing at the Hospital For Special Surgery in Manhattan.
Surgery has been scheduled for Tuesday (tomorrow).
Byrdak was the only left-handed reliever who was assured of a bullpen spot. Now they Mets must choose between Daniel Herrera, Garrett Olson, Chuck James and prospect Robert Carson, neither of whom were expected to make the team.
There is also a chance that C.J. Nitkowski will be signed, but he has not pitched in the majors in almost seven years.
About the Author: Rob Johnson
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Koufax was in camp the other day.Last time i checked he was a lefty.Maybe he could fill in till CJ Nitkowski is ready.Good lord!!!!
I wouldn’t be one bit surprised to see Josh Edgin come up here and do well, he’s been successful at every stop along the way in his two years with us after 4 in college and he’s done it as a full fledged reliever, not just pigeonholed into one specialized role. Braves liked him enough to draft him the year before we did and while they don’t pay overslot and consequently didn’t get him at least they liked him enough to take a chance.
What a shot in the arm it would be to get something out of an unexpected source. That kind of thing invigerates the entire team and has been all too rare around here in the last 20 years.
I bet he comes north with the team.I knw he only pitched in A ball last year but he dominated last year at both levels of A ball. He goes right after the hitters and I like that about him. No fear.
What’s the anticipated time on the DL with this? Done for the Year? 3 months?
one of the posts yesterday mentioned that if he needed arthroscopic surgery he could still be back for opening day, but I have no idea if this is what they were expecting.
in any case, I believe this is one of those minor procedures that they can come back from quickly, so if not opening day, not terribly long after that.
Meniscus tears usually take 3-4 weeks depending on how bad it was torn. 4-6 weeks max.
4-6 weeks from now isn’t the end of the world. Not great, but certainly better that 2+ months out.
If all goes well, I would think that 6 weeks is a good estimation.
Not the end of the world but have to wonder now if they’ll look to promote or sign another lefty now – something they said just days ago they were leaning against doing.
Go with Herrera. He earned a longer look last season, in my estimation.
I don’t know. Herrera got by on junk and deception. That only works one time through the league, if that. If Byrdak is going to be out a while, I think they are better off looking elsewhere.
I remember reading this too but if Byrdak will be back sooner rather than later, maybe Herrara won’t get all that over exposed.
I’m waiting though for the 5 days before Opening Day cutoff for teams to either pony up the extra $100,000 for ML veterans with 6 years signed to a minor league contract. Their might be someone being cut from a team that can slide in for awhile.
What I don’t know though is if a team does pick up one of those guys, do they have to guarantee him a spot on the 25 man roster? Or can they be signed to a minor league contract w/o that extra $100,000 being paid?
This is insane and he will take longer than usual to come back from this because as left-handed reliever his left knee is the one he lands with in his follow through.
How can you place all your eggs in one basket at left-handed reliever? And Nitkowski could be signed? Really?
Another great plan goes up in smoke.
This is why the Mets should have signed more than one major league lefty. What happens if he gets hurt? He IS going to be 38 years old by the way. They should have another guy up here, just incase something like this happens. And like I’ve been saying for the past two years, going with only one lefty is a disadvantage – Byrdack can’t pitch everyday, so your going to have days where you have no lefties available to pitch. And in our division, we have some good lefthanded bats, like McCann, Heyward, Bourn, Utley, and Howard later on in the season. So why go with only one lefty? It makes no sense.
And James, Herrera, Olson, are all AAAA guys, and Carson is a minor leaguer. I can’t believe the people who complained about the other GM for not having enough “depth”, are now saying these guys are good depth. Can someone explain that to me?
Because we’re talking about an easily disposable position in LOOGY. Or it is so far down the list of short comings on this team, we can’t really get too worked up over it.
Good thing there are backup plans. Five other lefties in camp, although I think Carson was only here for a taste and this probably won’t affect him much. I liked what little I saw out of Herrera last season and Chuck James has shown to be an effective reliever. I don’t love Olson, but once you get to 4th string, he’s pretty much what you’d expect.
Good thing there are backup plans”
Lmao, really??
A backup plan? What you call a backup plan is in actuality an “OMG the shit has certainly hit the fan” plan. If any of those options were good they would have already been inclusive in the bullpen. Guess what, they’re not.
Breaking News: Chuck James backup plan kicks in, Alderson hailed as genius!
Chuck James numbers vs left hand batters in 2011: .357 batting average.
Choke, choke, choke
14 ABs. Really. Hanging your hat on 14 ABs? Pathetic.
Why would the Twins or any team dare give him more AB against leftys? They did the only logical thing you can do with LH pitchers who cant get LH hitters out. They cut his ass. Enter Sandman
In his last season in the bigs before 2011, his BAA lefties was .148. In twice as many ABs. So, there’s that.
So you want to go back 4 years and hang your hat on that? Gee, in that case cutting Oliver Perez must have been a joy kill for you.
So I can’t cherry pick, but you can because it fits your argument? Fact is, you can’t use either either sample size for lots of different reasons. The best you can say about James is that he’s had 100 ABs in his career as a reliever and did alright. When you reach down to third string situational relievers, you’re not going to find Cy Young resumes.
Why in the world do you think he was the oldest rookie in MLB last year at 30?
nevermind my last comment, didnt realize I was lookin at 3 year window.
I guess 30 is the new 24.
BACKUP PLANS!?
Alderson simply walks on water in your fantasy world. The guy had only one lefty in the bullpen and now he’s hurt and he ignored the basic principles of competing at your best and by that i mean he ignored Starting Pitching and strength up the middle and pays a TON for middle relief
Make sure you clean up when your done.
UNBELIEVABLE the lengths these people go to defend the GM ahead of what’s best for the ballclub
One other lefty? I’m fairly certain HoJo mentioned four others.
there was just one “guaranteed” to be in the pen (based on the pre-camp depth chart). Doesn’t mean that one of the other guys wasn’t going to earn a spot anyway.
Exactly. Don’t tell “them” that.
Ha! The Scared S***less Brigade rears it’s ugly head. You guys all troll the site waiting for me to post, then call each other and plan what you’re going to say, all at the same time?
I love it. Best lunchbreak ever.
Lets review for the Kool Aid Cooler bunch who plan their attacks just as often only using other sites like MetsBlog to populate with Ringers whenever they get into trouble!
We let a Batting champ leading RS guy go because of 30 Missed games
Signed Hairston – Injured
Young – Injured
Byrdack – Injured
Buchholtz – 23 games last year
Torres – Injured
Beato – Injured
Carrasco – Might as well be injured!
It’s funny I remember someone blaming Omar for not having the depth to cover the injuries in 2009 but not a peep about all the injuries this team has faced since Omar left?
Add to the above list:
Wright
Davis
Murphy
I wonder if the MetsBlog contingent who comes here to help you has any explanation for why nothing seems to have changed regarding depth, payroll flexability and player health and why there appear to be even MORE injuries than before with the only difference being the performance of the new guys being much less than the injury probed guys they were supposed to replace?
And for the record we are not shitting in our pants…
We are shitting on your Kool Aid drinking assertion that everything is BETTER than it was, that Sandy has improved this team and made it better!
metsie, start the countdown to when t agee responds by revisiting the past and second guessing (after the results are in naturally) so he can try and justify the present.
Start counting….
BTW Joe & Even finally starting to getting on Alderson’s case..FINALLY while many of us were way ahead of the game.
I guess you didn’t see the post below yours yet! LOL
And for the Record JoeD has always qestioned Sandy’s moves!
They just don’t argue with him because they can’t run to the insults with him like they do me and you!
my bad – typo – it should’ve read Joe & Evan as in the WFAN hosts
here is a good time to revisit the disastrous JJ Putz deal which for all you 2nd guessers I was against because of all the depth we were sacrificing and for the fact that Putz had been on the DL a couple times the year before.
Bascially we downgraded at 3 spots on the 25 man roster.
Sean Green for Joe Smith and Jeremy Reed for Endy Chavez.
We also gave up a young LHP in Jason Vargas and one of our numerous 1B/LF guys in Mike Carp.
Heilman probably had to go as things were getting ugly but Makiel Cleto now 22 still posses a live arm and maybe never puts it together or maybe he does and Ezequiel Carrera, now 24 is at least a competent defensive CFer to have in AAA if not on the bench in an Endy type role.
Endy was vital to back up Murphy (the plan in LF) Carp given a chance in LF could have prevented the disastrous signing of Bay or installed at 1B when Delgado went down afforded Murphy time to actually learn LF or 2B in the minors and we would be much better for it right now. Vargas would be huge as another young starting pitcher or could even serve as a swingman along with Gee alternating between the pen and rotation.
This is a great example of a GM selling high (or almost so as Putz was hurt)
Carp in LF at Safeco is doing better than Bay, Vargas is doing better than Gee, Chavez better than Reed and Smith better than Green and Cleto and Carrera providing depth with upside and all except Chavez still under team control.
What does J.J Putz have to do with this? Who else can we bring into this discussion? Mo Vaughn? Jesus Flores? Might as well. They always find their way into everything.
J.J Putz was worth the risk because he had the potential to be a dominating late game RP. we traded a good RP, and all the other guys we traded were marginal players, for a potential dominating late game RP – I make that trade every time.
Now back to the Mets 2012 bullpen….
Vinny the guy is nuts. You forgot to mention that somehow Schoenweiss will be brought up too.
That rambling post had NOTHING to do with the subject – just the usual second guessing the past to try and justify the present.
When the Mets acquired Putz & K-Rod AT THE TIME mostly everybody was happy including me.
Anyway back to the current post.
He reverts back to be a second guesser every week.. you think he’s changed and here we are again… talking about sh** that happened 4 years ago. His 3 best companions are could’ve, would’ve and should’ve….
Captain second guessing should be his name!
Pipe down Marlin fan , shouldn’t you be on a Miami sports blog.
that was beneath you to say the least!
One Core guy is rooting for the Marlins and another Core guy is rooting for the Astros. Seems to me the DR players attract Core fans like a magnet.
And one idiot returns with the same drivel all so he can root for the GM who was mentioned in his Bible and not the mets who are now worse for following that good book!
If Rooting for a player i like in reyes and liking hanram better than wright makes me a marlins fan, so be it… but i rather be that than a second guesser loser like you, who only come to the site to yap about the same sh** all the time, we could’ve had this guy, we should’ve drafted that guy, we would’ve won if… IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF Shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you bring nothing to the table but second guessing comments about what might’ve happen, what could’ve be done etcx… stay on topic for once… you’re making eeryone in the site sick with your crap…
“If Rooting for a player i like in reyes and liking hanram better than wright makes me a marlins fan, so be it… but i rather be that than a second guesser loser like you, who only come to the site to yap about the same sh** all the time, ”
So admitting you ARE a Marlins fan, while constantly lying about someone else being a Braves fan because they commented on how good they were (confirmed by a ROY award), and calling out someone else for saying the same thing every day, is quite possibly the funniest thing I’ve read today………….”DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO”…………….King Hippocrate
Every day the same thing……..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Kay — Good job, my friend. The blatant hypocrisy belongs only in Washington, not in the Core!!!
Well what does it make all the folks who wanted Reyes gone Kay?
He was a Met! So I guess they were all Yankee Fans?
That sword cuts both ways doesn’t it?
Here we go… you see why noone respects you here? or take you seriously? this is what you do, you come in, see what EVERYONE has written, then see what me or bayonne or maniac has written to try to attack us.. why don’t you do yourself a favor and don’t even reply to whenever you see a comment from one of us? you bring nothing to the table and have no baseball knowledge whatsoever… btw, you do realize that HANRAM won the ROY as well?? Just because a player win ROY doesn’t mean he’s a hall of famer or some sort of… Check bob hamellin in 1994… I attacked that stupid BRAVES fans because that person is nothing but a phony fake ***** who thinks he’s better than everyone else and know more baseball than anyone, think before you defend some people here..
Just a couple of questions my friend.
So you are getting on Tagee because he comes on, gets off topic and spouts the same thing everyday…. doesn’t that sound a little hypocritical?
Second, you say ” who thinks he’s better than everyone else and know more baseball than anyone, think before you defend some people here..”
Doesn’t that also sound a lot like your buddy Bay and how you defend him thus lessening your own reputation?
TRS86, we’ve asked you many times that if you don’t know the history of MMO and its participants to stay out of it right? if you knew the history you’d know i am not talking about T Agee, although he does like the braves too i am talking about someone else…
and in regards of bayonne, i don’t need to defend him, he’s a man, he’s often been mocked, ridicule, attaked and insulted, yet he’s his own man, he can handle it, he’s been a big boy and he does not need my help.. trust me.. unlike some b**** that go to joe D every single minute to complain about someone else insulting them.. He’s usually right in his post and just as some of us in here he is a met fan who is frustrated with this front office and gets a bad rap for calling them out on it..
Alex68 — Who made you the traffic director of who is allowed to write posts? This is too rich in irony. Write for yourself my friend, unless you think the folks for whom you’re a surrogate can’t, at least in your mind, do a good job writing for themselves. I know some of them can express themselves. Sometimes I agree with them, sometimes I don’t. But making the decision of what’s a good factual post is left to each reader, not some guy like you.
ig·nore/igˈnôr/
Verb:
1.Refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally: “he ignored her question”.
2.Fail to consider (something significant): “satellite broadcasting ignores national boundaries”.
Dude, GET THE MEMO……………………………………
Come on, Alex…..
You, yourself can choose to ignore poster’s comments but to take the stance that others should not comment unless they have a history lesson on this site, it’s posters, their opinions is rather presumptuous, don’t you think?
New folks making their way over here who are interested in a particular post might read through the comments, see this kind of bickering and policing and just not bother.
Some how, I don’t think that’s the message Joe D wants to send out.
and you can give the same advice to the people that get on him too, or is it that it’s always alex’s fault because you disagree with his viewpoints…even though you’re being unfair – in a nice way?
Nah, you won’t admonish the people who go after alex because you agree with their stances even though that would be the fair thing to do.
take a hike
Don’t have a problem with anyone’s baseball opinions. Everyone’s entitled.
I was commenting on this specifically:
TRS86, we’ve asked you many times that if you don’t know the history of MMO and its participants to stay out of it right?
**************************
srt, What are you talking about????? i have been ignoring DES for some comments and remarks he made a while ago about people from other country.. again, if y’all don’t know what’s been going on, do not attempt to jump in and defend someone without knowing the history first… jeez!!
Well, maybe myself and Des took your comment the wrong way but it certainly came off like you were telling others to butt out of certain conversations.
srt — I’ve been around a long time and have over the years tried to help Alex deal with the troubled waters he occasionally swims in. But lately Alex is trying to push others, including a female fan, around a lot. It’s silly and won’t work.
Alex68 —
I don’t distinguish where people come from, unlike you. I don’t care if a guy comes from Australia, Canada, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, or Honolulu.
You didn’t like that I was critical of Jose Reyes who acted very unwisely in my view in his transparent maneuvering to coerce the Mets into a contract they either didn’t want or couldn’t afford. In fact, I said Jose should have fired his agent Peter Greenberg.
If you don’t like my viewpoint, show me why I’m wrong. You were wrong, not me, to bring up the fact he comes from the DR. That means nothing to me. To you it apparently means a great deal.
I am sorry if you thought that way, i was telling TRS86 to not defend some people here without knowing the history behind it…
The history here is that you called me a d-bag 3 times a day for 6 months while I made not one negative comment nor called you one single name.
Then there was all the Brave fan BS when I simply pointed out some strategies that seem to work a lot better and the results they derive from doing things differently then we do.
We all realize you have a serious agenda and regard yourself as a man on a mission to “educate” the fans in the areas of Sandy Alderson, David Wright and sabermetrics but there is almost no one who is buying it because it’s all one sided and instead of ever refuting a point made that goes against your philosophy you simply complain about what was written in GENERAL because you are incapable of acknowledging that there aren’t even exceptions to your overall opinions and the last thing you want to do is engage in a discussion of the actual topic because a closer examination of it would prove you wrong.
The fact that it is stated that we would be a better team if we hadn’t made that disastrous JJ Puts deal is just a fact unless you believe Jason Vargas, Mike Carp and Joe Smith and maybe Endy Chavez wouldn’t make this team, for one or that having an Evans/Chavez or Evans/Carp platoon in LF might have prevented the equally disastrous Jason Bay signing but instead of discussing the trade and the ramifications of it you just complain that it was brought up and then start with the name calling.
That’s why no one takes you seriously.
Sigh…………..
i know – he relives the past – after it’s happened – in order to justify the present.
His daily second guessing of moves made that were relevant to the situation years ago and plays them out against today’s circumstances. A second guessing loser
He does it every day and reminds us of Schoeweiss, Alou, etc. every….day. This guy is BITTER and wants to blame someone or something other than realizing the Mets had PLENTY Of opportunities in their histories to win games and have more playoff appearances..and EVEN with those names he tortures this site with everyday on the roster..and STILL go into the playoffs. But the Mets LOST those games and NONE of the people from the past who have nothing to do with today..that he likes to mention a hundred times a day had anything to do with those epic loses either.
Bitter, meet thy maker.
Most people understand WHY this team is always shorthanded.
The very reasons it is always shorthanded is because of trying to fix inadequacies on the 25 on a year by year basis that A) Haven’t worked and B) perpetuate those inadequacies in future teams.
That’s why we haven’t won and why were not to likely to now.
Even if we had made the post season in ’88, ’07 and ’08 when we missed out by one game we still would have been out of it on September 1st 17 times in 23 years.
Keep making excuses all you want but a team that’s not even in a post season hunt 17 times in 23 years, while sporting the Leagues largest payroll is doing something wrong. Identifying those things we have done wrong is the first step in fixing the problem.
You cannot expect to successfully fix the 25 man roster every off season with just whoever happens to be available. It may work here and there once in a while especially when the NL East is very poor like in 2006 or a division rival trades to us a couple of the best players in baseball for financial reasons but take away those events and it would never have worked.
Most Met fans want a consistent winning baseball team. A team that goes to the post season 5 times a decade and just misses 2 or 3 times at a bare minimum. We’ve gone to the playoffs 3 times in 23 years and just missed out another 3 times and been out of it alltogether 17 times in 23 years.
Any plan that’s only success to date has been when every team in the NL East was bad or relied on a division rivals poor finances to provide us with our best players is not a successful plan and one of the times we did qualify was pretty lucky too.
If Cinn hadn’t lost 3 of their last 4, Pittsburgh hadn’t given us the gift of a wild pitch walkoff win in the 162nd game and we hadn’t beaten Cinn in a one game playoff it would have been just two post seasons in 23 years, all with the largest payroll in the entire League.
We all understand that you consider those results good enough and seek to put them into some kind of rationalization about what could have or should have happened but you have to understand that for the vast majority of Met Fans those results suck. They are rotten, putrid, piss poor results and 99% of us don’t want to only win a post season berth that is based on a division rivals financial picture.
We want to win and at least realistically have a shot at winning a post season regardless of external situations and we want to successfully compete every single year, in strong divisions and weak ones.
Keep making excuses.
Really? So this: “you bring nothing to the table but second guessing comments about what might’ve happen, what could’ve be done etcx… stay on topic for once… you’re making eeryone in the site sick with your crap…”
was not in reference to Tagee? I am multitasking here. Keep up.
As for you not needing to defend Bay? You do it quite often. Again, don’t you think your comment of not liking someone because they think they are better than everyone else and know more baseball… doesn’t that describe your buddy perfectly? Just missing the middle school rhetoric of course. As for people running to Joe? No idea who is or was doing that but if you are still here then why give a damn?
That’s one of my major issues with your opinions. You seem to form your opinions on posters, players and situations based on how others react to them.
Well, i thought you meant the one about the braves fans, you know, are you some type of judge or something now? what exactly is that you’re trying to do or accomplish by defending or trying to defend some people here that you have no idea how they’ve been acting for years? if you know agee you SHOULD know he’s a big time second guesser. always trying to bring back the past to what could’ve, should’ve or would’ve been done for the mets and he’s in wet paradise for an ALL HOMEGROWN team from top to bottom, if you don’t know what;’s been going on the STHU, also, i do not defend bayonne, but if you feel i do so be it, i could care less what you think or say, if you gotta problem with him for calling you out on your site and other things take it up to him, be a man and confront HIM, don’t use me as a mediator for what he does, i am sure you’ll get an answer for him if you’re looking for one..
LOL, Alex I am no more defending these guys as you are Bay? Right?
My issue is with your comments not theirs. Comments that are so hypocritical that they could be studied for political advantage.
Example:
“are you some type of judge or something now?”
” if you don’t know what;’s been going on the STHU”
See the hypocrisy?
Example:
“you bring nothing to the table but second guessing comments about what might’ve happen, what could’ve be done etcx… stay on topic for once… you’re making eeryone in the site sick with your crap…”
Do I really need to post a comment with this one? You guys turn every post into the same debate. Sandy this and Sandy that. For not liking Sandy you guys sure do talk about him a lot.
Example:
“I attacked that stupid BRAVES fans because that person is nothing but a phony fake ***** who thinks he’s better than everyone else and know more baseball than anyone, think before you defend some people here..”
“He’s usually right in his post and just as some of us in here he is a met fan who is frustrated with this front office and gets a bad rap for calling them out on it..”
You know what’s funny TRS86, that with the same guy you think i defend i have DEFENDED you as well if you consider it that way… it’s obviuos you guys don’t like each other, but to HIM i have said you’re alright, come accross a little arrogant but that you were an okay guy… I was not trying to defend you, just EXPRESSING my POV on you as a blogger i guess..
OK so in that light then I am not “defending” these guys either. In fact your boy Jessup and I would never get along.
The Phillies backup plan for LOOGY? Dontrelle Willis who has pitched 3 games in relief in his career.
Cards backup to Romero?: Marc Rzepczynski yeah spell that one without looking. By the way he’s not a LOOGY but a swingman.
Yankees backup to the great Boone Logan? With a 200M payroll they have no one.
If that is the Phillies back up plan, might as well have none. He’s had a horrible ST so far.
Are you lobbying to be Alderson’s campaign manager? Comparing the Mets to the World Champs, NL East Champs and AL East Champs is hardly a suitable comparison, but you keep chugging along.
Valid in this case, no? How many other teams A) run two deep with LOOGYs and B) have one LOOGY as good as Byrdak?
Lots of teams don’t have a LOOGY as good as Ramirez is against lefties.
Dude, I dont get you, I really dont.
Those teams TRS cites are powerhouses. They can afford to go with one LH in bullpen because they are so overwhelmingly strong in other areas.
The Mets dont have that luxury.
Look at the lefties in Phils rotation. You want to compare that to us?
It certainly makes the need for a second lefty a lot less urgent when Hamels and Lee are in your rotation.
Absolutely, but there are two other guys in camp with varying degrees of some success in that or similar roles, and two other guys behind them, PLUS Carson and Edgin as wild cards. There’s enough depth to modestly cover 8 or so IP in the regular season, provided the injury report is true for once and it’ll just be 6 weeks from now.
I’m not losing my head over a situational reliever with modest depth behind him missing a few weeks.
Agreed.
I’m way more concerned about Wright at the moment. Information on his injury and progression is just a little too vague for me at the moment. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s not ready for opening day either.
Also, let me say I appreciate your decorum. I apologize for the previous “pathetic” remark. I was in “Bayonne” mode, because it seems like with him you have to respond in kind for it to take. But you’re nothing like him in your demeanor and I do appreciate that. I’ll be more careful next time.
Hmm, I like this reverse logic. The teams that have WS aspirations and have 150M+ payrolls? It’s ok for them to have holes yet the Mets who most have written off and have a 90M payroll should not have any holes. It’s also important for the Mets to spend more but yet less money on the bullpen.
This has been largely glossed over this offseason. Alderson spent $14 million this offseason for 2012, and $11 million of it was on three relievers. I would have bypassed the $3.5M on Rauch, who looked horrible yesterday, and either upgraded at catcher or left-handed reliever. We didnt really need to spend that much on 3 RHP none of whom ever excelled as closers.
But why spend money to bring in a backup Loogy? Go with someone in your minors. How much does a back-up Loogy get to pitch anyway? Byrdak did well enough last year and if he got injured is that spot really going to kill us anyway? Surely a Carson or Herrea can fill in. If they don’t then Ramirez, Rauch, Parnell and Acosta need to pitch full innings instead of wasting money on another Loogy.
Well the one saving grace I see here is Robert Carson who I like a lot. If this is his ticket to the majors I’ll take it. He throws hard for a southpaw.
Maniac — The jury is out on Robert Carson. His minor league numbers are mostly atrocious. He’s a nice kid but he hasn’t shown that he belongs in the big leagues yet. Personally, with the aid of MiLB, I’ve seen him pitch several times. He throws hard but probably straight as an arrow. I say this because the balls come back at him harder than he throws. This kid needs an effective secondary pitch.
Also I have said all along that I think they rushed the Rauch signing. However, I still think the reasoning for bringing them both in was that they intend on trading one of them later in the year and did not want to be left without a closer.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I do think too much is made over Rauch’s ineffectiveness. He had a bad 2011 pitching in a hitter’s park in the AL East. He’s had one other really bad year in his career, and he’s been otherwise a decent reliever. He was signed to be the 7th inning guy, not an All Star closer. Was $3.5 mil overpaying? Maybe. Most likely. But he also has closing experience, with a 3.31 ERA and a 1.72 WHIP in save situations. Not great, but again, not bad for a 7th inning guy, and his versatility and flexibility give him a little something else over what a specific specialist brings. He also has pretty neutral platoon splits (.242 BAA righties and .256 BAA lefties). Maybe he was overpaid by a million bucks, I won’t argue that. But he’s far from a waste of space.
Sorry, a 1.172 WHIP. Jeez, 1.72?
Maybe if spent our money on guys who are better than ‘Decent”, “Not Great but Not Bad”
And didn’t get rid of “GREAT” and “GOOD” players to find the money to get them we wouldn’t have so many holes in the first place!
What we have basically done is drill a hole in a good piece of wood to use as a filler someplace else on the same piece of wood!
Looks good but the integrity of the board is much worse now than it was with the original hole because now there are TWO weak spots not just one!
If you can fill all those holes with $12 million with “great” and “good”, then I’ll vote for you.
Please name the holes you think you filled!
It should be amusing to see you try!
The point is we haven’t because of all the top draft picks pissed away year after year.
Excuse me but how many top draft picks did the Phillies and Yankees need again?
Weren’t you the one who said you don’t need top draft position and selection to make a winner or has someone stolen your nick here?
Please you know the one thing I will always argue about is your consistency of posts!
You said that you don’t need to draft high and good that if you smart you find them all through the draft!
And I noticed all your complaining about guys we didn’t sign never made it to the thread about the ones we didn’t sign from last year’s draft!
dude what the hell are you talking about!
If they have WS aspirations they have a hell of a lot less holes than WE do!
Why?
Because they didn’t fill their holes with cheap kmart ineffective players!
They filled them with guys who actually IMPROVED the position without having to mortgage the good players they HAD and created another hole to fill in someplace else!
We MADE a hole in CF by trading Pagan in order to fill ahole in the bullpen!
The return we got for CREATING that hole is one guy who walked in a run two days ago and another guy who is injured and hit .230 last year!
You didn’t fill a hole you just made one and then filled in holes with putty not improvment!
What I am talking about is that with 150M payroll why do you have holes? The Mets have lots of holes and LOOGY should be about last on the list. I find it more damning that a team with WS plans and a huge payroll has a hole than I do the Mets not having a second LOOGY.
Well if you have aspirations of being in the WS you obviously don’t have as many holes as us who don’t have any delusions of being there now do you?
And why is that?
Because they aren’t filling their holes by purging NON-HOLES to get the money to pay for Crap filler!
THATS why they have that 150Mil payroll!
And note every market in the country is smaller than NY and somehow they don’t lose money spending that much!
Any Explanation?
Or I should ask any explanation other than Wilpon and madoff who haven’t cost the team money! Just stopped them from throwing good money after bad!
I am not having the same old tired discussion with you. I am making the point that a team with 150M payroll and plans of going to the WS should not have a hole.
They don’t thats why they are WS bound!
What part of that don’t you understand?
Why INSIST they have holes WE HAVE and they DON’T!
Why don’t they have them?
Because they have all that payroll flexibility we keep hearing about as an excuse to CREATE HOLES?
They do have… at LOOGY. LOL.
Our 2nd LOOGY in 2009 (a year we were “expected to win it all” was Pat Misch and behind him 40 year old Ken Takahashi.
as predicted t agee revisits the past by SECOND GUESSING after everything has happened…so he can justify the present. What else is new from this incessant second guessing fast talker – and i know most of the readership agree they just don’t say it out here. And the the other misanthrope who wants to justify a LOUSY job by this GM by pointing to other teams.
It doesn’t work that way.
I think the Phils and Cards can get away with things the Mets cannot afford to.
Yes and Jason Vargas, Mike Carp and Joe Smith would be of absolutely no use to this powerhouse team we have assembled. Endy Chavez wouldn’t have been a better compliment to Murphy in LF or a better backup to Beltran than GMJ or Carp wouldn’t have been a better idea than Jacobs and Carrera of no use as AAA depth for Torres.
In fact were it not for that trade of a known to be injured JJ Putz we could actually have Carp instead of Bay in LF, Murphy with a couple years experience at 2B and a decent reliever in Joe Smith in the pen and Jason Vargas in the rotation.
anyone that says that’s not a better situation than what we have now doesn’t know what their talking about and it wasn’t a 2nd guess. I knew it was a mistake as soon as I heard about it.
The name is Mr. Grant to you Mr. Lee.
Yes I do think it is more important for the Phillies and Yankees to have filled all their holes than for the Mets to have filled theirs.
Man you guys want it all huh? You want the Mets to not spend on the pen and shore up the rotation then you want them to have backup loogys that only get to pitch about 30-40 games a year.
I think the idea is to complain about not addressing the pen until Alderson does, then complain that he did address it and not something else.
With four first basemen in the starting lineup and the worst rotation in the division and a bad pen there’s only so much you can do in one off season especially with the credit card being maxed out and little to trade from the farm.
Back in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 2009 and 2010 you would think we could have have picked up a couple of higher end prospects to deal with the constant lack of quality alternatives this team has like the Casey Blake for Carlos Santana deal or the Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos one but while we did ship a large amount of under producers out of here after Phillips got s***canned all we got for them was salary relief.
Big help that is for the chances of ever having a team that doesn’t have to rely on the free agent market every off season to address 8-10 deficiencies on the 25 man roster.
Back when Santana was dealt we were in a legitimate pennant race and even in 2010 at only 2 games over .500 a case can be made to give it every chance but at some point you have realize that the reason this team is so deficient in so many areas is because of the got for it all mentality employed around here every year.
People now are starting to talk about building both for the present and future at the same time but where was that attitude before when we never addressed the future and instead took away from it, and for what? So we could be out of it on September 1st 17 times in the last 23 years?
We always have so many contracts we can’t move for anything other than salary relief, if that and by drafting so poorly when we do keep our best picks and frequently giving them away just exactly how are we supposed to ever get a coherent 25 man roster in place?
Just wait around every year to see who’s available?
At least with Rauch, Ramirez and Francisco they can be moved if they hold up their end of the deal so maybe some day we’ll have a RFer in RF, a 2B at 2B and a catcher behind the plate.
Wouldn’t that be something?
I think the idea is to complain about not addressing the pen until Alderson does, then complain that he did address it and not something else.
With four first basemen in the starting lineup and the worst rotation in the division and a bad pen there’s only so much you can do in one off season especially with the credit card being maxed out and little to trade from the farm.
Back in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 2009 and 2010 you would think we could have have picked up a couple of higher end prospects to deal with the constant lack of quality alternatives this team has like the Casey Blake for Carlos Santana deal or the Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos one but while we did ship a large amount of under producers out of here after Phillips got s***canned all we got for them was salary relief.
Big help that is for the chances of ever having a team that doesn’t have to rely on the free agent market every off season to address 8-10 deficiencies on the 25 man roster.
Back when Santana was dealt we were in a legitimate pennant race and even in 2010 at only 2 games over .500 a case can be made to give it every chance but at some point you have realize that the reason this team is so deficient in so many areas is because of the got for it all mentality employed around here every year.
People now are starting to talk about building both for the present and future at the same time but where was that attitude before when we never addressed the future and instead took away from it for 15 years and for what? So we could be out of it on September 1st 17 times in the last 23 years?
We always have so many contracts we can’t move for anything other than salary relief, if that and by drafting so poorly when we do keep our best picks and frequently giving them away just exactly how are we supposed to ever get a coherent 25 man roster in place?
Just wait around every year to see who’s available?
At least with Rauch, Ramirez and Francisco they can be moved if they hold up their end of the deal so maybe some day we’ll have a RFer in RF, a 2B at 2B and a catcher behind the plate and some depth, backups and something to trade.
Wouldn’t that be something?
this would be a good time to resurrect my “no more OOGYS!” campaign.
Actually, I totally agree with you on that. This oogy crap made it too easy to keep bad overall pitchers in the majors.
Agreed.
Isn’t Orosco still available?
Waiting to hear for more details on Byrdak & Wright but losing what was most likely to be the only lefty in the pen obviously sucks but by the same token not enough for me to start leaping off a ledge. My focus continues to be is that on Opening Day Davis is on 1st, Murphy is on 2nd, Tejada is at ss, Wright is at 3rd, Thole is behind the plate, Bay is in LF, Torres is in CF and Duda is in RF. Followed with the rotation including Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, Gee and possibly Schwinden assuming Santana doesn’t start the season with the Mets. In the pen it’s Ramirez, Rauch and Francisco followed with whatever combination it turns out to be. Losing Haiston while not good not as significant as losing say Duda and losing Byrdak will hurt more but I will reserve to see how bad it hurts come the regular season.
What about Mike Gonzalez? He’s still available. He’s a lefty and held lefthanded batters to a .214 average last year. I think he would be a much better option than Olson and James.
Nice catch, I wonder what his asking price is and if he is holding out for a contender to need him or if he is injured? Kind of strange he is still out there.
Vinny, he makes us good.. not wanted by the front office…
Vinnie B. — Gonzalez is represeneted by Scott Boras, not a favored agent in the Wilpons’ world. But he has guts. In last year’s world serie he had a torn miniscus but hid it. He said: “We didn’t want to tell anybody so they wouldn’t try to bunt or anything,” Gonzalez said. “I just had to gut it out until the end.”
I wonder what he would cost…
NJstuckinTX — Gonzalez is too expensive for the Mets’ tastes. Baltimore signed him in 2010 for two years at $6 Million per year and he had incentives. His 2011 salary increased to $7M for 2010 team leader in Rolaids points (but I don’t know if he was the leader).
See what happens when you do too many leg drops?
When you have great and good having holes is not a problem!
Getting rid of great and good to FILL holes that don’t make you better is no solution!
So you are saying the holes that the 2007-2009 Mets had were not a problem?
Compared to the holes we have now? NOPE!
Had fewer holes than WE have and we have “FILLED” them you think!
Are we going to be playing for the playoffs in September this year WITH those holes you think were filled?
Are we a better team than them?
All you guys are doing is playing whack-a-mole!
Digging holes in one part of your yard to fill holes someplace else!
And in the end what you have are MORE HOLES half or a quarter filled not fewer holes!
You think you filled holes in the pen but created a GIGANTIC hole at SS and CF!
You think you filled a SP hole but created a HUGE RBI hole!
You THINK you filled but all you did is cover the holes, they are still there and worse created even MORE holes you are covering than you had when you started!
Filling a hole is only effective if it does not create another hole to fill in the proccess!
All you have been doing is moving the hole around the field and in the proccess really haven’t FILLED the hole just thrown in TEMPORARY PLUGS!
You way is tantamount to the Little dutchboy drilling a core out of the base of the damn to fill in the hole at the top!
The hole you MADE lets more water out than the hole at the top does due to water pressure!
And all you really did is PLUG the hole with temporary crap, not LONG LASTING INFRASTRUCTURE that will last long enough to let you work on the next percieved hole!
Your chasing your tail and playing Whack A Mole!
Going nowhere very fast and I’m sure you’ll get there last!
You are missing the point and just trying to start the same tired debate again. Oh well. Have fun with that.
You HAVE no point!
Your not SOLVING problems just playing Rotisserie league hole filling every year!
Here stick that in there! Nope doesn’t work lets try something else!
Oh wait we can’t get something else, well lets make a hole here on Peter to Fill Paul!
And lets just create a 5 year hole to get the one year filler for Paul!
Your playing FANTASY BASEBALL!
Your not playing BUILD a CHAMPIONSHIP MLB BALL CLUB!
You filled the holes are we going to win something this year?
No? Then what was the point of CREATING holes to fill in the holes that aren’t filled enough to make us better?
What good is all this bullpen filler if the starters can’t hold a team to 6 runs or even if they hold to 2 run we can’t score one to get a lead they can hold?
Your just playing rotisserie hole filling not building a winner!
We’ve been playing fantasy baseball here for 15 years. That’s why we always have so many “holes to fill.”
At some point you have to think about constructing future years teams as well as this years team.
What, pray tell was the plan for catcher going all the way back to 1987 the last time we spent so much as a 2nd rounder on that position? Just pick up one every time we need to from the Marlins?
Not only have we not drafted any with top draft choices we’ve only signed a couple in the IFA arena and traded away a couple and lost another in the rule 5.
Some way to run a MLB team I’ll tell you.
No we have so many holes t fill because we didn’t draft enough before we stopped BUYING talent to fill the holes!
And now are creating MORE holes due to fanancial expenditure aversion to be able to afford guys who don’t fill holes just plug then for a year!
Those holes are not filled they will come right back at the end of the season when all these TEMP CONTRACTS end!
And your right back with the same holes PLUS the ones you created in order to fill them for a year!
Hey but at least the LF hole is filled for two more years.
Yes it is TRS, and thank God for that, and only at a cost of 20% of the payroll and a 2nd round draft choice I might add and this right on the heels of taking care of LF for 100 games and a #1 pick and a top catching prospect and that following another 2nd rounder going for Cliff Floyd which followed Shinjo and was preceeded by another #1 pick for Coleman.
Yup, LF has been addressed and readdressed numerous times all with the same scintilating results. Strange that we spend so much attention on this position when we draft so many 1B/LF/DH types and even trade for more of them while neglecting meaningless positions like catcher for instance.
When it’s past great it becomes not good.
No it becomes MERELY good which is STILL a hell of a lot better than ISN’T GOOD!
Which is what we been using to replace the GOOD with!
good for edgin. Nice to see young guys that have shown potential get a chance. And interesting that a guy banished to the MiL camp could actually come back if the combination of his performance and team need justified it!
middle relief is the one area where jumping a guy from the lower minors can work. If they are looking for a situational/mop up type, good way to get his feet wet (though it does cause an issue if he has to be added to the 40 man prematurely, but that is a bridge not needed to cross yet).
Carson though is on the 40 man, right? So just business wise, that would be the better option if the performance was close.
So all the injuries in 09 were a freak thing, how could anyone have a back up plan for all that, don’t blame Omar, but here were are in ST and the same come out to kill SA who actually does have some back ups………….
Same people that say, don’t blame Omar for the collapses in 07 and 08 it was up to the guys on the field but blame SA before a pitch is even thrown in 12 while having to put together a team with millions and millions and millions less to do it with.
Anyone else getting dizzy from all the double talk?
I like the spend, don’t spend, spend dammit, why did you spend turnarounds.