My reaction to every one of last winter’s signings was that they were cheap and made to fill roster spots as inexpensively as possible.

Part of the rationale was that if these players could be signed so cheaply by the Mets, it meant that other teams were not interested in them. Of course, that’s when the opinion that Sandy had a keen eye for under-valued talent not recognized by other clubs. Note, of course, this was before the time I even considered there were general managers that did not have a professional eyeball for talent.

The other part, of course, was too many coming back from serious injuries. Yes, Young I thought was a good gamble until recognizing his signing wasn’t the exception but rather the rule.

Would Sandy’s people been able to recommend other players of better caliber via free agent signings or trades had there been more money at his disposal? I certainly hope so. If finances were different, would they have recommended to Sandy to stick with KRod and Beltran instead of throwing in the towel – I certainly hope so as well. Again, there is a valid point for getting a highly rated pitching prospect in exchange for an aging veteran still having a good season – but that does not apply to a team being just five games out in the loss column. Or a young team trying to make a statement about itself.

Many point out the Mets were only three games above .500 but being that close with such a low winning percentage also indicated that for the moment it appeared that no one was going to run away it. If the Mets continued at their pace after that 5-13 start, 85 or 86 wins would not be out of the question baring those unforeseen injuries. As we both have pointed out, financially the excitement of important games in August and early September would have brought the fans out and thus that revenue would have offset most of the contract and bonus money they avoided paying (sort of like the settlement they just got, pay now but eventually be compensated). In turn, the negative momentum of last season has spilled over onto this one with a lack of season ticket sales. Very short sighted financial planning on Sandy’s end. Very short sighted player development as well for as I have contended, a successful 2011 with just a good winning record would have done so much in gaining experience, confidence, character and blending together as a team. That’s part of the re-building process too.

On this I agree!
If it is moneyball it’s the kind where NO statistical analysis was used whatsoever!
One of the things I have complained about!

I was fine when he started to let him use this DEEP STATISTICAL ANALYSIS everyone touted was going to happen. I don’t care how much he pays to get good players as long as he gets them!
But I look at the stats and I see no statistical reason for any of the signings other than “They Were Cheap!” (and in some cases really weren’t all that cheap!) And that pretty much where all my criticism of Sandy comes from!
I don’t care how much he spends but when he spends as much on crap as he could have to keep an All Star for two years then I have to call him on it!
Especially when the crap has nothing to do with the long term view we were told he had from his cheerleaders!

Do think Sandy has the public spin by sticking with his $70 million loss claim.

But the path the Mets have taken under his direction certainly does not make the case for the sabremetrics and/or money ball supporters. Those citing one can put together a good ball club on low (by today’s baseball standards) payrolls using the economic principles of money ball have been proven wrong. Those who say one can obtain under appreciated players through computer analysis have also taken a hit. Now, of course, the argument can be made that one year proves nothing – and that is correct – however, these moves were also made by the unofficial leader of both departments with his hand picked front office staff, many from his Oakland days. OK,forget about team progress – since almost half the 2011 roster on opening day were new acquisitions, how many came through with at least decent performances? Byrdak and Hairston? That’s it? With the way Capuano pitched, without having the seventh highest run support to back him up Chris would have been close to a 20 game loser!

Now, if Sandy would come out and say that there are limits even for the best of money ballers and sabre people, then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. For me personally, my vociferous stand came from just hearing too many times last winter hailing the signings of Young, Capuano, Carrasco, Boyer, Bucholz, Emus, Polino, etc. because they were fed up with Omar’s way of doing things (which they were justified to feel) and that Sandy knew how to uncover under-valued or under-appreciated talent by going outside the box, starting with these players.

As mentioned before, it might not be Alderson as it was though who adamant in telling us how much success he was going to instantly bring to the Mets.

Mind you, this has nothing to do with the minor leagues and his draft picks. That is not (and cannot) be at issue at this time.

Like “Wilpons OUT” facebook page to show your contempt at the current Mets ownership!!!

All I’m showing here is Sandy has said that it’s his decision making the Wilpon haters wrong….
Or it was their decision and Sandy was lying the rest of the time!

In either case Salaries were cut and the story Sandy seems to have stuck to most often is “It was MY Idea!”

“I don’t like High Payroll!”

Maybe just maybe BOTH is true!
And that would mean all those excuse makers for Sandy regarding Madoff were wrong as were the guys who support Sandy by claiming he isn’t playing MONEYBALL!
And all the folks who blame the Wilpons were wrong too!

Whose left?

The few who have made comments based on the moves actually made not the inspiration or motivation behind them!

So regardless of whether the Mets have to financially operate as an individual unit rather than just part of an overall bigger corporation, we both agree that the Madoff resolution will do little to change the situation in Flushing for it wasn’t the main source of the problem to begin with.

However, of the point being raised that it was Sandy more than the Wilpons who went on this cost-cutting craze, according to the author of that Capital New York story:

“Alderson confirmed Thursday what has long been obvious to anyone paying close attention to the Mets, which is that the new austerity isn’t a function of any new “Moneyball”-type philosophy of quality-through-thrift. The payroll is being reduced because the owners said it had to be.

“In fact, it is Fred Wilpon, the Mets’ C.E.O. and president, who has been responsible for Alderson’s embarrassing, repeated need to revise his 2012 payroll estimates—$130-150 million in February, $120 million in late May, $110-120 million in early September, and currently, under $100 million.”

Again, I can’t see the Wilpons letting Alderson bring the house down like he has unless they had no choice.

And getting back to the Mets itself losing $70 million this past year, is that after the approximate $70 million the club gets in revenue from the selling of televison rights to SNY?
Again, to make my case that while the Mets might be broke on paper, their sister company (SNY) that is also owned by Sterling Equities, paints an entirely different picture by connecting the two. Attached is an article from the TIMES that I posted a few months back.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/sports/baseball/03sny.html?_r=1

Know we still disagree on this point which is fine with me. The bottom line is that the Wilpons are hurting financially no matter which we way we look at it and to bring the civil suit settlement into the picture is really quite meaningless. All that decision did was to slow down the bleeding, not stop it.

But everyone else blamed them and while I didn’t check every quote ever attributed to him a quick search does show there were occassions where he used it as an excuse.

(but note MOST of the quotes about cuts confirm what you just said and I have been saying that it was NOT the wilpons who forced this budget on Sandy but Sandy’s own philosophy that forced it…)

In regards to quotes he did cite the madoff situation, Early he said it was a non factor and then he said…

“On that call, Alderson cited “intervening events” as the cause of the dramatic in-season drop in expected payroll, even though he’d mentioned earlier in the call that revenues and expenditures generally stay pretty static in-season.

He presumably wasn’t just referring to the financial problems frequently attached to a drop in attendance or to the lawsuit filed against Fred Wilpon and his partners by the trustee for the Madoff victims, but also to the fact that the Mets’ problems are the result of loans taken out to cover disappeared Madoff assets.
”
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/null/2011/12/4408000/victimization-straight-shooting-mets-gm-sandy-alderson

I wasn’t on that call and couldn’t find a transcript but thats what was reported on that site…

Most other quotes put all the cuts on Sandy himself!

“”First of all, I want to emphasize that the plan that we have pursued the last couple of months was limited by only one fact, and that was the level of the existing payroll. Our payroll going into the season will be somewhere between $140 million and $150 million. I think that is significantly higher than we’d like to be on an annual basis”

“”From my standpoint, when I took this position, when I interviewed and took this position, I was of course aware of the pre-existing involvement of the Wilpons and the Mets with Bernie Madoff. I wasn’t privy to all of the detail, nor am I or most of us at this point privy to all that detail. And I wouldn’t expect to be. At the same time, none of that has affected what I have done over the last two months. I don’t expect that it will have any impact on what I do over the next several months, including into the 2012 offseason.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/13812/alderson-on-madoff-wilpons

I have said quite often the cuts and lack of spending have all been because Sandy does not believe in big payroll!
Not because the Wilpons forced him to play moneyball,
Not because Madoff needed to take money from him,
it’s what he BELIEVES is good.

My contention is that the money he is spending is not getting that job done!
And if there is any factor FORCING Sandy to make cuts the only thing it COULD be is lack of attendance…
Which his letting reyes, beltran and K-Rod go when he did is not helping to solve that problem!

As for what he says I would prefer he just said nothing and got the job done than to make excuses for a plan he believes in but isn’t convincing a large portion of the fans!

Funny how I am the only one who gets goaded to show proof but when I do and a request is made by me you all go running and complaining that I’m not fair!

Sorry but I hold you to the standard you wish to hold me and when you don’t meet those standards I pretty much ignore your attempts to schedule my day for proof you can’t provide yourself!

The truth that Madoff stopped him from spending or the truth that now that madoff hasn’t hurt us in the least we are still not going to spend!

Which truth is truth here?

He should have just said until attendance picks up we are still in save money mode!
And he should have said it from the get go and not hide behind Madoff in the first place!

Then maybe the Anti-Sandy would have to deal with the fact that their lack of ticket buying is the cause of their issues not Sandy!

Something I have said quite often here and got into arguments over because people want their Boycott AND 175 Million dollar payroll!

Again if he isn’t spending next FA period and not trying to be creative at the trade deadline, I will mock up some eff-Sandy shirts, we will rent a van and drive it through the gate and demand answers.

Each team has a budget and you can’t really determine that amount unless they come out and tell you. What is the budget for this year

But if the whole attendance thing is as poor as it is you don’t go telling the fans Oh yeah there are no more madoff issues but we are going to play it like there are…

Is he wrong for not spending money this week? NO!
But he is dead wrong for even approaching the subject of spending to the public!
There are just some things better left UNSAID!

He could have addressed the question quite simply…
Who’s out there TOP buy?

Thats would have been enough to get the message accross and stop the dumb questions about spending!

I think Omar’s problem was that each year he spent right up to the threshold without thinking about the consequences the following year. Perhaps because he always felt like his job was on the line. I think Sandy’s goal is when he DOES have money to not spend it all at one time and then you still have flexibility year to year to get what you need instead of being stuck like the Mets are now.

The only exceptions where it was NOT based on Attendance was in 93 with the WTMCB and when Omar first got hired but in that case attendance was the reason for the investment as the investment was to bring more people out to the stadium while Omar rebuilt the Minors.

In that case when the question was asked how the mets could afford to do that Wilpon said (in 2005) that he allowed the budget to increase to the point that they would break even if they just made the playoffs, knowing making the playoffs would lead to more profits the next year.

And he was right that is what happened!

The budget for every team starts off at what attendance can support!
Only in rare circumstances does an owner step in and say spend less or go ahead spend more.
Those are the exceptions…Attendance is the RULE!