1
2012
From Left Field: The Ethics Of Steroids
An article by 
In the wake of the Ryan Braun steroid decision, performance-enhancing drugs have been a hot topic of late. Whether you agree or disagree with the decision, we can all agree that the steroid problem goes way beyond the development of tolerance. I sat down with former Major Leaguer Frank Tepedino to discuss the topic.
Tepedino’s career spanned parts of eight seasons from 1967-1975. He played for the New York Yankees, Milwaukee Brewers and Atlanta Braves. Though he was never a Met, I felt like what he had to say was relevant for our site.
During that time, performance-enhancing drugs were not part of the game. Talent and hard work alone were the sole determinants of a player’s success on the field. However, as steroids became popular in the game around the mid-1990s, the level playing field changed greatly.
Super-human athletes were taking the game by storm, which certainly put fans in the seats, but also compromised the integrity of the game. Tepedino addressed the issue of whether he would have used steroids if they were available.
“You can’t answer that question until you’re in that situation and you look at right and wrong,” he said. “Where is the wrong of it? Is it because it gives you an advantage over another athlete? But what if that other athlete is doing it, and nothing is being done about it?”
Tepedino gave an example for this year’s MLB B.A.T. Dinner in New York City. Former Minnesota Twins outfielder asked former Yankees third baseman Mike Pagliarulo is the latter would have ever used steroids? But Gladden told Pagliarulo not to answer the question immediately, but instead deeply think about it before giving an answer.
Pagliarulo thought hard, but he couldn’t come up with a firm answer. Tepedino agreed that it is such a tough decision based on all the extra factors.
“Here you are not using them,” Tepedino said. “But the guy on the mound is using them. The catcher is using. The guys in the minors are using. The guy in the minors is going to take your job. The guy on the mound has an advantage over you.”
When weighing these factors, it’s a lot easier to see why many players turned to steroids, especially veterans later in their careers. Put yourself in their shoes for an instant: You have to support a family and kids, but your talent is diminishing. In order to continue playing and earning a paycheck, you need that extra edge so you take steroids. It’s really a tough call.
“Realistically by not doing it, you’re basically saying that’s the end of my career, because someone is going to take my job,” Tepedino said. “And that guy that has an advantage over me is going to get me out. You can’t just say, ‘No I’m not going to use them or yes I’m going to use them.’ You don’t know until you’re in that situation. That’s human nature.”
Many former players, like Tepedino, claim that based on their morals, they would not use steroids if given the choice. He said players like Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth were all clean and still excelled at the game.
The thing with those players is that nobody else was using steroids at that time, so a player’s own ability determined performance. Without steroids, only the top-tier of players shined. But once steroids were introduced, normally average players began putting up monster numbers and performed better than players with more talent but who chose not to use.
And then of course there’s the money factor. The players who perform the best get the most money. Simple right? But not when steroids are involved.
“They’re making two million [dollars] a year, and you’re home carrying a lunch bucket working in a factory in the offseason because of your morals,” said Tepedino.
Tepedino said that though he may have struggled with the decision he ultimately would have chosen not to use steroids.
“You might not have a good as career as someone else, but you can go to sleep at night and say ‘I did the right thing,’” he concluded.
So before we chastise a player for using steroids because they are illegal in the game, put yourself firmly in their shoes. Hopefully, many of you would choose not to use, but based on the extra factors, it’s a tougher decision when you’re actually faced with it.
So would you use steroids if everyone else was using and your job and family livelihood depended on it?
About the Author: Jim Mancari
Jim Mancari hails from Massapequa, N.Y. He recently earned a Master's degree in Journalism at Hofstra University. He is a devout Mets fan and takes pride in his team, despite their lack of success over the last few years. Like all Mets fans, Jim has plenty of hope. He also writes as the sports reporter for the Brooklyn Tablet newspaper and the senior editor of metroBASEBALL Magazine. Click my name to view my personal website.
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Great and unfortunately very timely article Jim. Terrific job.
The pressure to take steroids just in order to keep up must have been the primary reason most players took them. I have no doubt if MLB hadn’t turned a blind eye the whole steroid era would have just been a few guys over a few years. Merely a blip on the radar.
I wanted to give Braun the benefit of the doubt simply because I thought this whole thing was over and finished with and I’m still angry about the hoax MLB put over on us in ’98. C’mon bu that time you don’t think that guys like Don Zimmer, Walt Jocketty, Tommy Lasorda, Vin Scully, Joe Torre, Felipe Alou, Frank Robinson and Lou Pinella didn’t have any idea that they were seeing things they’d never seen before?
What a joke.
Fact is Braun gave us nothing to hang our hat on. He appealed on procedure and then talked about things “that could have happened” when everyone involved agrees that the samples arrived in perfectly good condition with absolutely no sign of tampering whatsoever.
Personally speaking I think everyone involved had a vested interest in Braun being “cleared” despite MLB’s public posture and considering the way they looked the other way from 1988-2004 and how it took a speech by the President of the United States to get them to address the issue in the first place, I doubt very much if they have any concern about pulling the wool over the fans eyes.
1st off, steroids are the only PED out there. MLB has been know to be using amphetamines for years. Baseball is a game about endurance, and getting a little boost every night to keep your energy levels at peak is enhancing your performance.
I know 1st hand that my high school football team won the stat championship with a handful of players on steroids and a very large percentage on Coke. I know one player from at era that made in into the NFL, and he was always one of the supposed players hyped up during the games.
Is coke or other amphetamines better than taking roids? I really don’t think so…plus, you look at Ruth’s area, is racism any better than roids? Shouldn’t Ruth have an “*” because a lot of the best talents couldn’t play MLB or have the chance to develop into the players they could have been?
My 2nd thought on the matter is; I think that most fans separate the AAAA and minor league players on roids from the Bonds/Clemens type players on roids. i’m not sure that it’s fair, but nobody cares that a nobody is roiding up to help make it to the show, but when a HOFer does it while setting records, it’s cheating and a complete disgrace.
The difference is that amphetamines kept one alert enough to stay at his peak – it did not enhance what he was capabable of doing – only kept them from the effects of fatigue.
Granted, knowing the danger that drug could cause, MLB was just as guilty as turning a blind eye to those pills as they were steroids beinginning in the late eighties. That’s why the players today must be joined equally by the owners and the commissioner in what occured.
And, as noted, players from different eras would have certainly dosed themselves with PED had they had the chance.
“The difference is that amphetamines kept one alert enough to stay at his peak – it did not enhance what he was capabable of doing – only kept them from the effects of fatigue.”
But that is the same thing. It is enhancing his endurance, a major component of performance.
That’s my point…yes there is a deference in what they do, but they still artificiality enhance a players ability.
I’ll take it one step further…what if a players natural physical abilities deteriorated naturally over time. Now, all of the sudden, a new surgery was developed that not only corrected the issue, but actually gave the player a better ability than what he originally had when he was young?
Is this “performance enhancing”? Because it’s a surgery that’s legal, does it make it any better? A lot of the “PED” on the MLB banned list are legal, so keep that in mind.
Now I know of one player who had this surgery done… Late in his career, Wade Boggs had laser eye surgery. After the surgery, he had 20/10 vision.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/22399/Sports/Clearly__Boggs_likes_.html
Now I won’t argue that what Boggs did was wrong or should be banned, but it does show that there is a fine line between PED and other options that are legal.
And what about Tommy John surgery? For an older pitcher, it’s like becoming the $6 million man (not counting for inflation). 40 years ago Carlos Beltran would not have been able to come back from the knee injuries he endured. And, of course, all the antibiotics and medications not available long ago keeps the body healthier. All an advantage for the modern athlete.
Just another reason why it’s difficult to compare performances from one era to another for all that impacts the game – just like the modern relief pitcher, better gloves, livelier balls (no pun intended), strike zones, lower mounds, not using the same ball over and over again, better manicured fields and even players not leaving their gloves in the grass by their positions after the third out (wonder how often a fielder tripped running full speed over the opponent’s glove or a ball hit the glove and thus bounced in a different direction.
And what about the light-weight uniform itself? No more wool that made one perspire and added weight when soaked with that perspiration. No problems like what I saw in an old cartoon with a player saying “there’s something about wearing a Yankee uniform that gets to you. I think it’s the wool, it itches”.
When interviewed by Bob Costas, Bob Gibson admitted he might have taken steroids when he was around to get the competitive edge. It is tricky, indeed, especially for the border line player.
I would put the moral question into view when it comes to Braun simply because he was well aware of the entire steroid mess and the furor it created and ignored it. The stench of the drug had already been well defined in terms of both baseball, health and moral judgement.
According to Canseco, Barry Bonds took the drug out of jealousy when he saw McGwire and Sosa getting all the attention and felt he could do even better.
But no matter what the reason, what we saw was not what we got. Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and I’m sure ARod all fattened their records with the drugs they took. ARod said he only took it for two years which, many find doubtful because his change in physic came long before joining the Yankees. Yes, he is a super star talent, but how much to the degree of super stardom would he have reached without it we will never know. I do know one thing. In the old Stadium he hit a ball that went half-way up the back wall in the old visitor’s bullpen – a monsterous shot. I was awed by it’s a rare occasion to see a shot hit so far and deep. I’m not awed by it now.
But for me, the record books have not changed. Hank Aaron is the all time home run king. Roger Maris is the single season record holder. If ARod surpasses either one of them, it will still be the same in my mind. No moral issue – just fairness.
Aaron is to me as well the All time HR king as is Maris the single season guy and I really find it ironic that the guy who had an asterik slapped on him is now considered by most to be the legitimate single season HR champ.
Maris and Aaron are still the home run champs respectively for single season and all time for me, you and most fans that predated the start of this era. These so-called record holders who cheated are only legitimized mostly by newfangled fans and younger ones who never saw the game when it was clean.
IMO, this is all on MLB. Most of these guys shouldn’t have had this moral dilemma to begin with if they had done what they’re doing now. But we all know why they did not.
I’m on the fence concerning anything that might be considered legal – outside of MLBs rules. Such as those drugs and supplements that would aid in healing an injury faster and stronger, or over the counter supplements. Heck, us lay folks have access to this type of stuff for a good reason at times.
But illegal acquisition and/or use? Yeah, it’s their body and their choice but in order to level the playing field, it had to stop. Not to mention the message it’s sending to young athletes in high school coming up the ranks.
“During that time, performance-enhancing drugs were not part of the game.”
I have to disagree. Amphetamines enhanced performance, no matter what word games or hand waving people want to do.
Also, anabolic steroids were first synthesized in the 1930s. Baseball players were known to be ingesting…certain extracts from animals going to back to the Civil War era. Since day 1, players have done whatever it took to get some sort of advantage. Maybe they didn’t know what exactly they were taking, but they were taking things.
That is not to say I don’t want the ban or testing. I just don’t think this silly love for an era that never actually existed is going to help.
We have to be honest and up front about what PEDs are and how they’ve been used if we are truly going to fix the problem.
Greenies did not enhance one’s ability to accomplish something he was otherwise incapable of doing if well rested There is a difference between enhancement and stamina. In the specific case of amphetamines there is no way a rejuvenated (in lieu of a tired) Barry Bonds would be holding the home run records compared to a naturally well rested Barry Bonds using steroids. They would also not increase his ability to fight the aging process – his talents would have diminished as he got older, greenies or not.
But you are right that we should not forget that older players were able retain their natural stamina which led to many a late inning hit, great running catch, a 14 inning complete game and a good box scores from both ends of a doubleheader due to those pills. We do see players tiring easier in long extra inning games compared to when I was younger.
But those from my youth played under more physical taxing conditions that their earlier counterparts. Their bodies were on a regular time schedule with games beginning at 3:30 PM – with only a limited amount of night games after 1935 so not to interrupt that pattern. They traveled overnight by train (with sleeping berths) and thus did not arrive in hotels in the early morning hours without sleep – a western swing was considered St. Louis. So the Babe and his counterparts had an advantage over the more modern era players by not having to endure conditions that sapped the strength out of them.
Roger Maris might have hit only 58 homers in 1961 (as Greenberg in 1938 and Jimmy Fox in 1934) had he not been aided by greenies. But at the same time, the Babe might not have hit sixty had he had to travel cross country by plane, play day games after night games and had the time to drink a little bit more too. So all greenies did was allow Maris and others to re-create the same physical circumstances that the Babe and others enjoyed. But still an illegal drug or abuse of a prescription drug is wrong in any case .
As far as other drugs, I don’t think the players of the first half of the 20th century were savvy enough to know of the performance enhancement drugs of their times. Of course, that doesn’t mean they had any higher moral standard as Bob Gibson alluded to. And they abused their bodies by hard liquor and drugs of a different nature.
Steroids don’t enhance a players strength, they give the user the ability to recover faster than they normally would. I could take steroids every day and not get stronger… to get stronger you have to work your ass off, steroids just let your body recover faster so you could work out longer, harder and more often.
When I used to work out all the time, I took legal drugs that boosted my energy and let me exercise longer. I can’t remember the name of the stuff, but it was a fine over the counter stuff that is probably banned by MLB now.
Plus, I still play baseball, on those night games…there is a big difference between when I take a 5-hour Energy and when I don’t. It enhanced my performance… caffeine is a drug, so isn’t it a performance enhancing drug?
If increased strength and reflexes were not the result, please explain the reasons why healthy individuals and admitted users like Canseco, Giambi, ARod, etc. would have taken them? Was it simply for the psychological effect one gets taking a sugar pill they thought was medication? And why does the once extremely muscular Marc McGwire suddenly appear so svelte even in head size? If he stopped working out to the extent he needed to as a player, wouldn’t some of that muscle have turned to flab?
“Greenies did not enhance one’s ability to accomplish something he was otherwise incapable of doing if well rested There is a difference between enhancement and stamina. ”
Ya, one is an action, another is an attribute. You can artificially enhance your stamina.
I don’t see how popping greenies (controlled substances) so you could get those boosts of energy is so much worse than using steroids (controlled substances) so you can recover from a workout faster.
“In the specific case of amphetamines there is no way a rejuvenated (in lieu of a tired) Barry Bonds would be holding the home run records compared to a naturally well rested Barry Bonds using steroids.”
Bonds didn’t use steroids, he used hGH. I know that seems like semantics, but hGH doesn’t actually have the effects people think it does. It makes you bigger, but it is just for show. All that extra bulk is really fluff, immature muscle. Some people claim it enhances eye sight, but every attempt to verify that has failed.
And this is another big problem with the PED hysteria. People really aren’t informed, but we’re grabbing torches and pitchforks.
Now, that isn’t to say I don’t think Bonds is innocent or anything. If he took a controlled substance in a way other than its intended use because he believed it would artificially enhance his game, then the intent was there.
Donal there is no way in hell Bonds got that large using only HGH. HGH in itself will not add that type of body mass without an anabolic steroid. HGH by itself will get you a lean muscular phsique but you have to take steroids with it to get large like Barry was. He was juicing.
The real shame of all of this is how great Frank Tepedino looks, having kept his weight down and body in shape, compared to the rest of us in his age group. It’s like when as kids, us guys who are now sporting corporations wanted to all look like Elvis – and now that we’re older we got our wish!
I met Frank Tepedino in the early ’80′s. He was working in a sporting goods store in Port Jefferson, Long Island. I went in to buy some running shoes and we hit it off. In one of our conversations, he told me about some of his time in Atlanta, sharing the first base job with Mike Lum. Frank is a good, down to earth guy, who later became a New York City fireman. I saw Frank as a straight shooter.
Cheating is cheating! It shows a lack of respect of the game and should not be tolerated.
Greg while I agree with what you say I have to ask who is the victim in this cheating?
The Fans? Well if they see better baseball you can’t really say they were harmed or didn’t get their money’s worth!
The Owners? Hell why should they care some player is killing himself to win a game for them? Do they care how you go about compiling the stats or not? Why should they if you hit 70 HRs for you who cares HOW? You pay them based on what they do not how they do it!
So who are they cheating?
Basically the other players in the union and the record books those players want to be in!
If the players (the real victims of the cheating) don’t want to stop the cheating them why should anyone else want to stop it?
And until the Union realizes this you will never stop it from happening!
Well then, Metsi, old friend…
I feel cheated as a fan since I do not believe performance enhancing drugs gave me better baseball to watch. When I see a Jose Canseco hit a monster shot to the top reaches of Skydome (that’s what it was know as back then) or an ARod hit a monster shot half way up the back wall in the former visitors bullpen at the renovated Yankee Stadium, I can’t compare it in terms of when the Mick just missed hitting one out of the old Stadium back in 1963 – with, at most, only greenies.
And Pudge Rodriguiez throwing out base runners while both knees are planted on the ground – that’s not like the Kid when he threw out baserunners.
Or Roger Clemens smoking them by batters in his mid forties – not like Nolan Ryan when at the same age – or Steve Stassburg now.
Or seeing Marc McGwire just poke his bat at the ball and line out of the park (can’t forget that one for he didn’t even take a full swing and it went out like a rocket).
It’s as real as the size of one’s head or shoe size.
Well Joey if you didn’t know about the folds would it really be different?
Your innocence was lost but face it you STILL don’t know if that He is due to roids or not and won’t until the guy gets caught!
Might as well assume they are all on roids!
And who is to say mantle wasn’t on speed when he hit his?
You go to watch people hit hers then it really shouldn’t matter how. Do you really care if one guy increased his testo by working out 16 hours a day or took a magic potion at the time he hits the ball over the fence?
“Do you really care if one guy increased his testo by working out 16 hours a day or took a magic potion at the time he hits the ball over the fence?”
Yes, I do. And that magic potion increased one’s testo beyond one’s natural physiological limits.
“And who is to say mantle wasn’t on speed when he hit his?”
Do you really think so, in all honesty?
BTW – on television I saw him hit that pinch hit home run while drunk and slamming his bat down on the ground thinking he just popped up. At that time, I’m sure Mel Allen, the Scotter and Jerry Coleman all knew he was plastered but made no mention of it.
The only one I know of who used speed (the drug LOL) to his advantage was Doc Ellis and I’m still trying to figure out how that was done while looking at lucy in the sky with diamonds.
Well I guess you don’t like Magicians either since you know there is no real MAGIC to what they do?
Did the canseco HR disappoint you when it was hit or after his book came out?
Love magicians because I’m always trying to figure out how they accomplished the illusion – which was what the ‘roid users did to.
Yes, the Canseco home run did awe me. At the time we were being told how so many hitters were getting stronger by weight lifting so I bought into it. I also thought that the pitchering wasn’t as good as it once was. But to me, it’s like using a corked bat which also makes the ball go further and harder.
Do recall when that bottle was found in McGwire’s locker and for a moment I had hopes that maybe his record would be overturned until nothing more was made of it.
Hank Aaron said that he didn’t think Gaylord Perry should be in the Hall of Fame because he too cheated by using the spitball. That is a valid point for the hitters swore he made the ball do things an ordinary pitcher couldn’t. But I wonder how much of Perry’s dominance came more due to the anxiety he placed in hitters just thinking he might throw it – especially in tight situations. For all we know he might have thrown just a couple of spitters a game to keep hitters off guard and thus his reputation might have become bigger than the actuality. Just a guess and I’m probably way off-base with that hunch.
LOL Joey,
Thats just the thing though…
You can take roids all you want but without the working out it really doesn’t help!
It’s not the testosterone that makes you stronger it is the fact that the roids make working out that much more effective and some will say makes you feel like you can workout longer with more energy so your actually working out more than someone without them!
If you did the same workout OFF roids as you did WITH roids in most cases you would get just as big and just as strong!
But you would probably have to eat like a pig to get the chemicals one shot gives you!
“But you would probably have to eat like a pig to get the chemicals one shot gives you”
…but I do and I don’t.
LOL well then get your fat lazy ass to the Gym aleady! LOL
Just joking dude!
LOL,
Not to worry Metsi, I knew I was setting myself up for that one.
That’s why I was good at Stratomatic.
‘If you did the same workout OFF roids as you did WITH roids in most cases you would get just as big and just as strong!”
Unfortunately I am just not sure that is true. Ask most professional wrestlers of the 80′s and 90′s. Not only that but it’s already becoming a problem in HS sports as well.
Well the roids do not build muscle just for being there! They do trigger the brain into thinking your stronger though.
USING the muscles is what builds them and the roids are merely chemical components used by the body to BUILD those muscles but if you don’t trigger the muscles to stress and repair themselves those chemicals just pee right out of you!
People don’t really know this but it’s not the actual workout where the muscle is made it is in the rest period afterwards where the muscle bulk is actually built! Working out stresses and damages the tissue which triggers the body to repair and build up to handle the work! When it runs low on the components for muscle building it stops building! Roids is used to ensure there is more than enough building materials to keep the proccess going longer! But it doesn’t start the building all on it’s own!
What they do is give you the energy to work out more (and that could be placebo science isn’t sure) and a more than ample supply of the chemicals needed to rebuild the muscles!
Yes they are a problem in HS because HS kids are more and more hitting the gym!
“I can’t compare it in terms of when the Mick just missed hitting one out of the old Stadium back in 1963 – with, at most, only greenies.”
Actually, that may not be true. There is that story that he missed those games at the end of the 1961 season because he was injected with steroids from a dirty needle. He ended up in the hospital with an infection.
Not that the Mick intentionally sought them out, but he was told to go see this doctor and the doctor told him “this will fix you” and injected him.
And in his autobiography, Willie Mays admitted he’d just go into a doctor’s office and get a handful of pills, not knowing what they were. Given all we know, can you say with real certainty that guys weren’t “juicing” prior to the mid 80s?
And one more thing to keep in mind: Greenies were a banned substance in the 1960s. Steroids weren’t banned until 2002.
People need to come to terms with the fact that the Good Ole’ Days never happened.
Actual what had happened in 1961 was that Mantle was suffering from a viral infection and Mel Allen suggested that he see a certain doctor for a “cure all” shot. That shot wound up causing him to have an abcess in the hip that did him in.
Agree, as kids we worshiped baseball players. I remember in elementary school one of my friends talking about Mantle and said emphatically “Mickey Mantle LOVED his father”. Of course, if I was older I would have said, sure, don’t you love your’s too? But Mantle loving his was something special…. We all now know what a SOB Joe DiMaggio was but that it was that unreal image that he and the reporters both used for their own advantages.
Like most everything in life, the good old days were really not what they seemed. But in baseball, we were not cheated with what went on in the field. It had to be that way because they had to produce in order to remain a big leaguer. No guaranteed contracts or even negotiating power. That’s why September was also known as the “salary drive” and explains why we did see baseball at it’s best. Those guys were working for a living and didn’t want to jeopardize their jobs.
So, they’d have even more incentive. And a more complacent media.
Don’t doubt it, especially with Bob Gibson and others saying they would have been tempted to try it if they could. But the bottom line is that they didn’t – even if it was due less to character and more that the opportunities weren’t there. So we weren’t cheated out of anything.
The Dodgers lost that fourth game of the 1941 world series due to cheating — everyone remembers Mickey Owens let the game ending swinging third strke get by him and Heinrich wound up at first and the Yankees then rallied to win the game. It was said that Hugh Casey threw a devestating curve but the reality was that it was a spitter in the dirt that neither Tommy could hit or Owens could catch.
Just like Josh Thole with R.A. Dickey’s knuckleball.
“But the bottom line is that they didn’t – even if it was due less to character and more that the opportunities weren’t there. ”
Or they could be lying. guys took animal hormones. Babe Ruth used ram…extract. Who is to say they didn’t jump on it when the 1940s version of victor Conte was offering them the synthetic stuff?
Or, they just never realized it. they would be ordered to go to the team doctors to get all sorts of pills and injections. You think Comiskey or Yawkee would be above drugging their guys?
“The Dodgers lost that fourth game of the 1941 world series due to cheating”
Owen let the ball past him. taking advantage of the other team’s error is not cheating.
Hi Donal,
Let’s not get carried away on talking about the old timers and the drugs that were available for their use – other wise we’ll be getting into the Griswald argument “can you prove it didn’t happen?” With the crude drugs of those times the chances are they would have become physically sick more than physically stronger – as exemplified from that shot that Allen’s doctor gave Mantle in 1961.
As far as the Owens incident, it was Brooklyn that was cheating and it backfired. The Yankees would have been unable to mount that great comeback if it wasn’t for the break they got on what should have been the final out of the game.
Well this is the reason why the MLBPA should be the ones who are fighting the MOST for testing and catching cheaters!
They get hurt the most by these cheaters both in a competitive advantage AND the health insurance side of the coin!
Sure they help them make the big bucks but for every guy it helps there are 10 it hurts! And then there are all these health issues later that they must pay to treat long after they are done using!
The owners are the only ones who BENEFIT from all these PEDs!
They don’t care if the guy is crippled when he is 50 or if he beats out some other guy for a job because his numbers are artificially better than some non user! They want the better performance and don’t REALLY care how they get it!
It’s the other players that SHOULD care and thier union doesn’t seem to!
Now that said Roids get a pretty bad rap in general but they DO have thier uses and a total shunning of them is almost as bad as a total acceptance!
There are obviously medical benefits to them if used properly otherwise they would not have invented them in the first place!
So the question should not be about use but WHEN and HOW to use them.
If a player is injured and a steroid can help the player get back sooner then the doctors should be able to prescribe them in a controlled environment and that player should be tested until he shows clear before he can resume his playing career!
If that was implemented I bet you woulod reduce by HALF the number of players who take it on thier own as many use it to treat injuries.
The rest? Well the union needs to understand that it is their members who lose the most here! They not only lose the salary they might get that goes to cheaters but they lose all that money paying the medical expenses of that MILLIONAIRE who cheated to get his money!
Maybe if they didn’t waste time or test for things that do not enhance your performance the Players would be a bit more willing to allow the blood testing!
Thats the real issue that the Union and members are worried about!
They get tested for roids and find THC and your just as banned despite the fact I don’t know anyone who can hit a baseball better whacked out on weed!
Coke? Well maybe, ask Oil Can Boyd and Doc Gooden about that! LOL
“They get tested for roids and find THC and your just as banned despite the fact I don’t know anyone who can hit a baseball better whacked out on weed!”
Have the base coached hold onto bags of Cheetos and watch base running records get shattered.
The owners, the commissioner and the managers are as guilty as the players for this whole mess. And that includes Sandy Alderson who admitted he had “suspicions” when in Oakland and Tony LaRussa who was his manager. I think all of them should be fined and suspended but then, I doubt they would do that to themselves for the integrity of the game.
Well of course they knew but the ends justified the means. Baseball was in trouble after the strike and those lofty numbers went a long way towards repairing it. Also, we as fans? Did we legitimately think those numbers were real? Shame on us too.
Every beat writer in every one of those clubhouses knew as well.
That’s why I get a chuckle out of those getting on their pedestals now yelling ‘cheater’.
They all knew. They all turned a blind eye.
Exactly and even furthered their careers champion their causes and historical chases.
I remember when a handful of reporters mentioned the andro McGwire had in his locker, plain for everyone to see. Everyone laughed at them and accused them of just trying to drum up controversy.
The funnything about McGwire’s Andro controversy was it was perfectly legal to take it at the time!
Thats what gets me about McGwire and the others.
Most if not all took them before they were illegal!
And if they had come out and said hey I used them, no one told me I couldn’t they probably would have a shot at making the hall right now!
Because they weren’t actually cheating as far as the rules go!
They would have done more to protect their legacy if they just told the truth said Yep used them but stopped once they were not allowed and moved on!
It’s the dishonestly that pisses people off way more than the fact they took something most players were taking at the time because no one cared as long as the balls went over the fence!
To me that’s no more a valid a defense than Braun’s lawyer finding a technicality based on the wording of the agreement.
Baseball is not exempt from the laws of the the land so even if those drugs were not banned from the game, it was still illegal to take them under the circumstances they did. Perhaps there would be less violence in hockey if the players knew intent to do something that could result in bodily harm would land them in jail instead of just the penalty box.
But they weren’t banned in the US at the time Joey! Thats the problem!
It was those 70 HR seasons that made Congress take notice and start banning the Precursors like Andro!
The only thing banned before that was anabolics and hardly anyone takes them these days anyway!
Here is a quick Timeline I found for you to take a look at…
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22247395/
Now I can accept your point that taking anything is cheating but at the same time someone decided working out with weuights helped increase your Testosterone levels and decided it was unfair to do something that has been legl should you be punished for doing at the time was not illegal?
If they criminalized Alcohol tomorrow you should go to jail for having a drink 3 years ago!
Was it wrong for them to use any means neccesary?
Maybe…But I blame the MLB and the Players Association more than I blame the players who look for any LEGAL edge they can get.
There is one important bit of information many are forgetting.
Before steroids became a controlled substance, the heavy dosages used by McGwire, Bonds and all the others was still only available as a prescription drug as classified by by the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). Its uses range from the treatment of Andropause, Menopause, speeding the recovery in burn victims, helping improve the quality of life in Aids patients, helping fight breast cancer and staving off osteoporosis. I don’t think Bonds, McGwire and their compatriots were using it for any of these reasons.
So it was and still is a legal drug and just because they were not banned by baseball or were categorized as a controlled substance does not therefore exonerate the players from that were doing. Elvis, Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston also used legal, prescription drugs and what they did wasn’t illegal either, remember?
If what the players were doing wasn’t so shameful why were they risking so much just to cover it up? Cause really if it was all legal, not banned, then it was all above board right? Only it wasn’t. It wasn’t even close to something like greenies which were well known about, never denied that they were available in the clubhouse spoken of and alluded to in many ways through almost 50 years.
No one ever risked a perjury conviction over greenies or anything else in MLB except steroids and the reason is simple. They knew what they were doing was wrong and shameful despite whatever MLB specifically banned or didn’t.
McGwire wasn’t covering it up, at least at the beginning. His andro bottle was front and center on his locker shelf in a post-game interview. That’s how all this really came to light, the visible andro bottle in Mac’s locker.
Anabolics, that’s another story.
More plausible is that McGwire didn’t realize he had left it there. If always placed front and center, the adro bottle would have been noticed way before that interview and even though what was found was an unregulated, over-the-counter drug, it’s implication would have been enough to have reporters jump at the chance to scoop others – which is exactly what happened.
The concern was not about that particular bottle but rather what further investigation could uncover due to it being discovered (memories of Watergate, no-doubt).
And T Agree summed up the whole situation beautifully. Everything else is just mincing words.
And if it was a jar of protein supplement that had a high level of HGH in it would it still be the controversy it is?
Shameful is a far cry from illegal!
Is it shameful? Well it can be argued on both sides but the majority of folks will say yes and the truth is it isn’t what they think that is causing all the subterfuge…its what the players who took them think that causes the shame!
They are thinking like many other will, thier life their accomplishments were a LIE!
SO I’ll keep on lying to hide the previous lie!
It’s basically EGO that drives them to deny and lie about what they did! Not the law (because things like andro weren’t illegal yet and no one suggested prosecuting anyone for taking them even after they were made illegal).
Clemens and Bonds weren’t on trial for taking roids they were on trial for perjury!!!
Thats why I say if they had just admitted they did them before baseball had banned them no one would hold it against them, no one would call them liars which has as much to do with thier being held back from going to the hall as anything to do with HGH!
McGwire’s big mistake was going in front of congress and refusing to talk about what was entirely legal at the time!
If he had he would be in much better standing right now…
The roids may have put an asterix next to his name in the record books, but he would not be denied the Hall because he did what he did at a time when anyone and probably everyone was doing what he did in some way shape or form!
The roids they took though were illegal in the United States.
Nobody could possibly be so naive as to think that MLB must duplicate every single law on the books in the entire country. Since 1991 the United States has made possesion of steroids illegal. Must MLB have a policy in regard to driving over the speed limit? Burglerizing peoples apartments? Filing tax returns? Spitting in the subway? MLB doesn’t have any policy regarding arson, does that mean it’s OK? What was found in McGwire’s locker was just the legal part of steroid usage and to me just shows the casual nature of the use of those things at that time.
they have general rules about morals and suck. using drugs illegally would qualify.
Hey, Oxycontin and Morphine are perscribable in the US, but it is illegal to use them without one.
no they weren’t illegal at the time Tag!
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22247395
HGH is not a steroid it is a precursor used to MAKE steroids in the body!
It was not part of the Congressional ban on anabolics
Why would anyone knowingly take a prescription drug for an ailment they didn’t have? The act itself might not have been illegal but doesn’t make it any less shameful and that’s the point we’re all getting at.
Moral integrity still counts for something – even if only realized in one’s self and admitted to after the fact. Discussing it in terms of vocabulary and technicalities or comparing it to actions committed of lesser significance (right or wrong) is only mincing words and avoiding the real issue.
Why do people use Protein supplements when they have no protein defficiency?
Why do people take Vitamins when they don’t have issues with vitamin deficiency?
Why do people work out in the Gym 6 Hours a day when 2 Hours is more than enough to keep you fit?
Do you do all that because it’s legal or because it helps you keep fit?
HGH was to help him stay fit! he had back issues and they seemed to go away when he took them!
Kept him on the field and injury free just as working out protien supplements and Vitamins are all meant to do!
Nobody knows why and when McGwire started using steroids regardless of what he says the reason was or when he started.
The facts are that at age 28 after averaging 150+ games a year for the past SIX years all of a sudden his numbers started to make a curious climb. BA, OB and SLG % and this was all BEFORE he got hurt.
People always seek to justify their actions somehow but the case can be made that the steroids themselves may have caused his injuries. Who knows? Certainly no one who posts on this board is privy to when and why McGwire started using but no one can deny that he started putting up huge numbers and continued to do so well into the period that most players have already fully completed their decline.
Nine out of ten years from age 29 on with a 1.000+ OPS (the only ones in his career) followed 6 completely healthy seasons so circumstantially I find that “medical use” excuse to be complete and utter bullsh*t.
But if you want to believe it Metsie go right ahead.
Metsi,
The court concedes the fact that people take protein supplements and vitamins when they don’t have to and work out longer than they have to.
But comparing those to steroids is only mincing words and avoiding the real issue by bringing up points irrelevant to the degree and intent of the substance abuse we are discussing and the merits it has on athletic competition.
And I’ll say it again, HGH isn’t steroids and it wasn’t illegal when he took them!
When prohibition was enacted did they go and put anyone who ever had a drink in Jail becauise it was turned illegal?
Then how is that any different than Andro?
Metsi,
I will concede to every point you made about the drugs and their legality. I personally don’t give a damn if Andro is a hormone and not a steroid, that HDH is a precursor to make steroids, if it is perfectly legal for one to use a prescription drug as opposed to it being illegal for one to prescribe it for other than it’s intended use as specified by the ADA or that it produces no more muscle capacity as one’s physic is capable of becoming. If those are your points, you are 100 percent right but they still have as much relevancy as does the collection procedure not being strictly adhered affecting Ryan Braun’s urine sample.
And if we are going to talk in absolutes then you too need to do some research – during prohibition those drinking liquor in a speakeasy were arrested and sent to jail along with those who ran the place.
OK let talk absoloutes…
AFTER prohibition was passed….
How many people were convicted of having a drink BEFORE it was passed?
NONE!
You can’t be convicted of breaking a law that didn’t exist at the time!
McGwire never purjured himself! Clemmons did! Bonds Did! McGwire merely refused to answer the question!
Not so fast Metsie,
In 1988 the FDA made distributing HGH illegal, not using it but either distributing it or possessing it with the intent to distribute it without a valid medical reason.
Presumably if McGwire was in fact using it for medical reasons it would have been supplied by a Doctor who was treating him. That Doctor and the treatment certainly would have been mentioned before Congress had one existed rather than the mumbling and stumbling that did make up his testimony.
Secondly simply the act of handing over to someone else any of this illegal substance would have met the legal definition of distribution whether he was handing it over to another user or handing over a syringe with it inside to someone in order to have that person inject him in the ass. The only conceivable way that a user would not at some point engage in distribution would be if they simply went somewhere, got shot and left while never handling or handing back the syringe.
That while technically possible defies the law of common sense for anyone let alone a professional athlete.
I mean would you just let someone (anyone) stick a needle in your ass without looking at what it contained?
The idea that any user of HGH would never handle the item in anyway is just absurd and then as soon as someone else does you’ve met the legal definition of distribution which was made illegal way back in 1988.
Either way McGwire never supplied any documentation from a medical professional about any HGH use and the likelyhood that he himself never handled it before someone else di is almost infintismal.
Distributing, Possesion for the sake of distribution…But no law aganst USING it!
Vitamins also are used to create steroids in the body…Are they steroids too?
Meat provides proteins and chemicals that get turned into Androgens in the body, Is meat illegal?
You guys keep mistaking my argument as a defense of McGwire and users when all it is an INDICTMENT of Baseball, Congress and the FDA for not being on the ball and stopping too late what everyone now deems as BAD BEHAVIOR!
As for what McGwire did no one actually cared until Congress came after Baseball!
The entire league is as much to blame for the use and MORESO than the players, Cause where do you think the doctors that gave it to them came from?
It’s not against United States law to hand your neighbor a steak. It has been against the law to hand your neighbor steroids or HGH since 1988.
I agree that MLB was complicit in the whole steroid scandal but it is false to say McGwire didn’t do anything illegal unless you believe that he never handled in anyway any steroids or HGH and no one after him handled any of those substances either.
If he had had a medical reason for using them he would have produced the DR. and documentation saying so. Paul Byrd did.
As a US Citizen he almost certainly broke the law regardless of whether MLB had any stated policy on these substances or not.
Marc McGwire has stated that steroids did not help him hit one home run he would not have hit anyway and that he took it only for medical purposes. If his only concern was for his health, wouldn’t the attached have been enough to have scared him and others away from doing so anyway? I think it would for any health conscious individual whereas it wouldn’t for those concerned with something else altogether – especially if taken for year upon year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx5veEyHPr0
You really need to do some research on what is a steroid, what is not because thats pretty much the problem both you and tag are having here!
Andro is a HORMONE not a STEROID!
It’s not an anabolic which made it perfectly legal to have and use!
Dr. John Lombardo of Ohio State, the NFL’s adviser on steroids: “Androstenedione is a steroid,” he said. “It has anabolic qualities. Therefore it is an anabolic steroid.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1998/08/22/mcgwire_supplement/
Yep he said that….But here is when it became classified as one!
In January of 2005, the Anabolic Steroid Control Act was amended with the Controlled Substance Act that added anabolic steroids and prohormones to the list of controlled substances.
What year did he hit those HRs again? Hmmm?
Please stay on topic. That’s when it became classified as controlled. It was always an anabolic steroid.
But it’s use amd sale was not banned or limited!
You found the one doctor out of 99 who claim it is an anabolic!
But funny it wasn’t classified that way in 1995!
Please stay on topic. Its legality is not in question. It’s biochemical makeup did not change with it’s status. It is anabolic and always was. Whether it is “controlled” or not, illegal or available over the counter, helped McGwire or didn’t, is purple or orange or tastes like cherries means nothing to the discussion that was presented. You’re trying to change it.
Andro is and was an anabolic steroid.
Ah the good ol I insist so it must be true defense I see!
It’s a prohormone that was CLASSIFIED later as an anabolic by Congress!
Actually Andro is in a class of steroid hormones called prohormones. Prohormones convert into active androgens and these active androgens are in fact anabolic steroids.
Sitting there in his locker they were not steroids but once in his system they were.
Your defense of him sounds a lot like his testimony in front of Congress.
And were perfectly legal until 2005!
And no matter what, anyone who goes through Balco or other sources of dubious note to get something they could not obtain through legitimate practice knows they are doing something wrong.
Obviously. Hence the willingness to risk perjury convictions and the shame when they were caught.
Not something I’d be attempting to defend people for doing.
Did he purjure himself Tag?
Did he provide a medical reason for using HGH or just avoid perjuring himself by mumbling and stumbling in front of congress?
First off he didn’t need one….
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/performanceenhancingdrugs/a/062900.htm
Read it will you?
“In January of 2005, the Anabolic Steroid Control Act was amended with the Controlled Substance Act that added anabolic steroids and prohormones to the list of controlled substances. This makes possession of the substances a federal crime. In 2004, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) banned the sale of Andro, because of evidence to support increased health risk when using this substance. ”
He had it and used it in 1998!
So none of your points are valid at the time he had and used it!
None of them existed until 2005!
Andro wasn’t banned or limted, controlled until 2005!
WHich is probably why McGwire felt no need to hide it if as you say he knew he was doing something wrong!
By McGwire’s own admittance, telling the truth might have incriminated him.
McGwire said he evaded questions at that hearing on the advice of his lawyers. When he opened up about admitting to the use of steroids McGwire said (quote):
“After all this time, I want to come clean. I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony.”
McGwire says his lawyers, Mark Bierbower and Marty Steinberg, told him that if he made any admission, he could be charged with a crime, not to mention that he, his family and friends could be forced to testify before a grand jury. As McGwire said in his interview with Bob Costas regarding that Congressional hearing (again, quote):
“I wanted to talk about this, I wanted to get this off my chest. We didn’t get immunity. So here I am in this situation with two scenarios: possible prosecution or possible grand jury testimony.”
That doesn’t sound like the behavior of one who either did not break the law or didn’t associate himself with a sordid place or sordid individuals. It does sound like a guy who came clean in order to get a job with his old friend Tony LaRussa for if he didn’t have an ulterior motive, why didn’t he “get it off my chest” in the five years after that Congressional hearing? There was no longer a need to protect his wife and friends from appearing before a Grand Jury so that wasn’t the reason to keep quiet, either.
Oh please Joey lets stick to reality here for awhile!
All he did was refuse to answer questions about the past and said he wanted to talk about the future!
He did not deny, take the fith or perjure himself!
Only Bonds and Clemons came out and did that by denying it altogether!
Well if McGwire and his attorneys were concerned about him making admissions that would incriminate him I guess that just leaves Metsie as the sole believer that McGwire never did anything illegal.
T,
That’s because McGwire had the wrong lawyer….., he wanted Metsi but he wasn’t available because he was helping me get out of paying a parking ticket.
Can’t fight parking tickets but you CAN fight Speeding tickets! LOL
Metsi,
Brilliant! Claim I was speeding while parked and thus the ticket was incorrect and I get off on a loophole – just put into evidence a bottle of speed which cannot incriminate me for anything since the officer did not ask for a search warrant to search the vehicle.
An inspired defensive move. No wonder McGwire didn’t want to talk about the past without you by his side!
dude please show where mcGwire did NOT admit he used Andro!
If not please stop with your stubbiorn attempt at winning a point based on some fantasy you percieved as happening!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids&num=8
When Wilstein sought confirmation of McGwire’s andro use, the Cardinals dismissed him. “Androstenedione?” said a team spokesman. “He doesn’t even know how to spell it.” But then McGwire admitted to the AP that he’d taken andro for more than a year, and added, “Everybody I know in the game of baseball uses the same stuff I use.”
So he denied it to the press for a year (No Perjury) and then admitted to it in 1999!
So when was this lack of admission of which you speak?
because he didn’t want to RE-ADMIT in front of congress years after he already admitted to the press?
Please Tag stop insisting like your buddy Xtreeme because it isn’t an effective proof compared to the links of the timings I have been providing!
You guys obviously THINK you know what happened when but your posts clearly show you do not and are prosecuting guys on beliefs not FACTS!
Metsie, what then is your opinion about what McGwire’s attorneys were afraid he might incriminate himself about?
Please post where you even get the notion the Lawyers thought he might incriminate himself please!
Until you post that I suggest they didn’t think he could incriminate himself any further than he did in 1999 when he admitted using Andro!
Please note where he took the 5th amemdment to anyone and if you can’t there is no point arguing a fact that obviously doesn’t exist!
Metsi,
I posted quotes from McGwire where he specifically said he could subject not only himself but his family and friends into possible grand jury testimony, he could also subject himself to possible prosecution because he wasn’t granted immunity. What I quoted were McGwire’s exact word which I will repeat:
“After all this time, I want to come clean. I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony.”
“I wanted to talk about this, I wanted to get this off my chest. We didn’t get immunity. So here I am in this situation with two scenarios: possible prosecution or possible grand jury testimony.”
Sounds different from what you then said to me:
“All he did was refuse to answer questions about the past and said he wanted to talk about the future! He did not deny, take the fith or perjure himself!”
You ignored citing one of the reasons behind his decision to refuse answering those questions – the legal counsel he received. Does that mean you believe McGwire was not telling the truth to Bob Costas and used his lawyers as the excuse as to why he didn’t speak up sooner?
And it wasn’t that he was just looking to protect his loved ones and friends from testifying – he said (again I quote) “I am in this situation with two scenarios: possible prosecution or possible grand jury testimony.”. He was also subject to “possible prosecution” using his own words.
Yeah Joey I just don’t see how we can interpret the subjects own words to mean anything other than what he said in order to arrive at a different conclusion.
My opinion is to take his words on the matter at face value. He wasn’t offered immunity and based on his attorneys advice, fearing either a grand jury investigation involving his family (one of whom wrote a book about about his illegal usage of PED’s) or the filing of criminal charges against him sought to evade discussing the matter in a way scripted by his attorneys.
He did in the end up however, perhaps after statue of limitations had passed, admit to some vague general use of PED’s when he wanted to come back into baseball as a hitting coach.
Clearly one’s counsel doesn’t give a client a script from which to follow in order to avoid a criminal investigation or the filing of criminal charges unless he or she is of the opinion that the client is vulnerable to either or both.
Sorry but if the defense was “it was legal at the time” that’s what he would have said and no one would have feared an investigation or criminal charges because after all if it was legal at the time………
And in ll of that ow many times did he take the 5th amendment in front of congress again?
He didn’t want to talk about the past!
Are you sure Andro was the only thing he took in the past?
I’m not!
He admitted he took Andro…WHY? Because it wasn’t illegal to take it at the time! He admitted that in 1999!
Long before he went to congress!
He didn’t get immunity in what was not much more than a witchhunt!
Note to this date not a single player has been TRIED let alone convicted of taking Roids which are NOW (since 2005) illegal!
You keep talking about what he said when he had a press conference two years ago!
But you seem to keep bypassing the day he was in front of congress and did not plead the 5th amendment merely refused to answer questions about the past!
Did you know if you answer ANY question you also give up your right to take the 5th amendment?
You guys can rant and rant on about what you THINK happened and what happened or was said AFTER the fact…But it doesn’t change history and your attempts to REWRITE that history by claiming he refused to testify, took the 5th in front of congress, Your fantasy that he denied taking Andro in 1999 and it’s legality at the time he took it just shows you guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing and don’t want to admit when you get proved wrong WITH facts and links that neither of you have provided!
Reeks of what Xtreem does if you ask me!
He INSISTS something he made up is the truth and if you don’t BUY into his insistence you must be crazy!
If you don’t know the facts and the timeline of this issue then stop pretending like you do!
Yes he took PEDs! They were not anabolics at the time he took then as far as the LAW is concerned and he admitted taking them long before the law was enacted!
You got a problem with that then start bitching about the LEAGUE who was 3 or 4 years behind the times on PEDS that the NFL and Olympics already knew were being used and enhancing performance!
Don’t hang the guy who played within their rules hang the guys who refused to MAKE the rules that would have stopped him!
Well Metsie if as you feel he didn’t do anything illegal why would he and/or his attorneys have feared a criminal investigation or the filing of criminal charges?
You seem to be pretty certain that he wasn’t exposed to criminal charges but his own statements contradict that stance. I’m not making anything up, I’m taking the words that came right out of his own mouth to form my opinion.
OK fair enough, you feel he never had anything to worry about from federal prosecution, I feel differently based to a large extent on him saying exactly that.
To each their own.
Keep moving the chains Tag…His own statements when? During the congressional hearing or his statements years later?
I spoke about his use of Andro as being legal at the time!
Is that all he used?
Did he stop using it after it was no longer legal?
is THAT why he didn’t want to talk about the past?
Dio you have proof of any of that or are you just so stone headed that you refuse to admit the ORIGINAL POINTS of this subject you were WRONG and just need to keep it going until I give up so you can feel better about that?
If you have proof he broke the law show it already!
If you don’t you lose this argument and will be ignored from now on because I get better things to do with my ytime than entertaining your attempts to save face when your DEAD WRONG!
Hi T. Agee,
Of course you are correct. And how could I ever disagree with one who adopted his nic-name after my favorite all-time Met center fielder?
While I don’t profess to know if there was a statute of limitations or not, he did make the confession after it was a condition set forth by the Cardinals for him to return as a batting coach.
So if McGwire was not advised by his lawyers to talk about his past at that time, that means he is a liar now for saying he wanted to get it all out into the open but his legal counsel told him not to.
It was McGwire who said “I wanted to talk about this, I wanted to get this off my chest. We didn’t get immunity. So here I am in this situation with two scenarios: possible prosecution or possible grand jury testimony.” If that’s not the truth, then it means he didn’t want to get it off his chest all those years as badly as he professing he wanted to.
There’s a lie somewhere. Either he 1) didn’t want to say things in front of the Congressional Committee in fear of possible prosecution and bringing others in front of a grand jury or 2) had nothing to fear and just didn’t want to say those things he admits to now for reasons that had nothing to do with prosecution or bringing others in front of a grand jury.
So if what you say is true, it then implies what McGwire said in that interview about wanting to get it off his chest all those years but couldn’t was all boulder-dash.
Joey,
I’m sure we’ll find things to disagree about but Met CFer’s probably won’t be one of them. At least past one’s.
I just wish this whole steroid thing hadn’t been re opened.
T,
I know exactly you how you feel.
Today I was all set to watch my first baseball game (albeit, spring training and only the Yankees). The picture from Florida on our HD set was gorgeous and all I could think of was that baseball was back. Then during his pre-game warmup, I heard Michael Kay raving about the dominating numbers put up by Roy Halliday and the first thought that entered my mind was “steroids”.
The whole Braun situation has again taken a lot of the fun out of it for me when the above has to be my initial, emotional reaction regarding a superstar- and that makes me feel sick inside. Even with ARod and that home run, I wondered if he was still juicing himself and masking it in the urine samples.
Braun’s actions did more than just stir up arguments about the wording of the agreement and getting away with a suspension through a loophole for the suspension in itself (other than for Brewer fans) means less to me than what it implies is still going on.
Couldn’t have said it any better Joey.
Just opening up all the doubt and suspicions just when you thought it was all over and done with.
You didn’t have to go some sordid place to get it until 2005!
Do your research guys!
Is that with or without a prescription.
Metsi, you’re just busting our chops now.
I’m busting your chops YET I have showed you timelines and links about WHEN these things became illegal and you simply are too stubborn or too proud to admit that the mcGwire case while it’s sad he broke record didn’t actually break any rules in existence at the time of it’s use!
If he had he would have been prosectuted by now don’t you think?
Baseball still can’t really test for HGH to THIS DAY!
It requires a blood test at best they can detect high levels of testosterone to hint that he is taking something to keep it artificially high!
All I know, Metsi, is that if I ever need a lawyer to defend me, you’re it! ?)
I hope you don’t need me to cram for the Bar anytime soon! LOL