28
2012
Wilpon Intends To Own The Franchise A Very Long Time
An article by 
Whether he was speaking out of defiance or knowledge, Mets owner Fred Wilpon vowed he wasn’t parting with his team. Period.
“Well, (Mets fans) shouldn’t be concerned about us owning the franchise, because we intend to own the franchise for a very long time,’’ Wilpon said this morning in Port St. Luice. “Whether they’re happy about that right now or not, I don’t know. Don’t forget, we cut a lot of payroll that wasn’t producing.’’
That much is true, as gone are Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo. Also gone are Francisco Rodriguez, Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes, but they were productive Mets last season.
Wilpon reiterated the refrain often sung by the Mets in recent seasons in hoping for bounce back seasons from the injured (Johan Santana, Ike Davis and David Wright) and the non-producing (Wright, Jason Bay and Mike Pelfrey). If all those things are realized and GM Sandy Alderson’s patchwork bullpen is productive, the Mets could overachieve.
Perhaps the key personnel issue facing the Mets this year is Wright’s future and Wilpon said he wants him to stay. He did not, however, say he’ll do everything in his power to make sure he stays.
Reyes, Wilpon said, was more a baseball decision than it was an economic choice, although the two are linked. Based on Reyes’ frequent injury history, Wilpon was leery of a long-term deal to Reyes. Wilpon said $100 million was on the table, but was linked to incentives such as games played and at-bats, which Reyes turned down. The rejection spoke more of Reyes than it did Wilpon.
Ideally, the Mets would like to build around a relatively young core and ride out the Santana and Bay contracts. If those two are healthy and productive they could help the Mets overachieve and draw a few more fans, and in the process, not make it necessary to deal Wright. Then Bay and Santana can be cut loose are their contracts expire to give the Mets more flexibility.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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“Whether they’re happy about that right now or not, I don’t know. Don’t forget, we cut a lot of payroll that wasn’t producing.’’
They cut perez and castillo… $18 million that wasn’t producing..
Krod was producing
Beltran was producing
Reyes Was producing
what about bay? Santana making $20+ million? paying pelfrey $5+ million to stink up the joint? More Lies from these people… Amazing…
Cutting payroll that wasn’t producing? No, you cut employees (athletes) that don’t produce and reallocate that payroll to better use.
Sorry Fred, not buying it.
Alex68 — Fred said he cut a lot of payroll that wasn’t producing. He spoke the truth. He didn’t say he cut ALL payroll that wasn’t producing. Why your angst? What I find amazing is your lack of understanding what Fred said.
P.S.: I won’t quibble with you on K-Rod, Beltran and Reyes, but what do their contracts have to do with what Fred said? They were producing but he never claimed they weren’t.
MY FIRST QUESTION IS THIS; WAS REYES ALLOWED TO SIT AT THAT TABLE WHEN THAT 100M WAS ON IT? I’VE DEVOURED NEARLY EVERY VIABLE WORD PRINTED ABOUT REYES’ MET CAREER & IT APPEARS NO SUCH ACTUAL OFFER WAS TENDERED.
DID ANYONE EVEN CONSIDER OFFERING HIM 3Y 60M FLAT TO ALLOW HIM TO MAKE A DECISION TO LEAVE INSTEAD OF HIS ONLY HAVING ONE PATH OPEN TO PLAY MLB FOR 2012 & BEYOND, IN MIAMI? WILPON LIPS ARE MOVING? THE MOST RUDIMENTARY OF [POLYGRAPGH MACHINES WILL COMMENCE TO SUDDER.
THE WILPONS MAY BE PREPARUING FOR A LONG SIEGE OF POOR ATTENDANCE BY STRIP MINING THEIR PAYROLL; HOWEVER WHAT’S THE REACTION OF 14 OWNERS USED TO SHARING RICHES AFTER NY TRIPS TO BE HANDED IOUs?
IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE TO “KNOW” A VIABLE VENUE IN NYC IS MANDATORY FOR BASEBALL SUCCESS.
I BELIEVE IT IS NO MEAN STRETCH TO MAKE A CASE THAT WILPON OWNERSHIP IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE CONTUINUED BEST INTERESTS OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE MLB PRODUCT.
I did suggest it (80/4) but the Bully bunch quickly called me rediculous and crazy for thinking Reyes would take only 4 years @ 20 Mil and take his chances on another payday in 4 years instead of the 4 Year 58 Mil deal he took that had Two extra years at 22 Mil!
His average salary is 17 Mil per season with the Miami deal!
For an extra 3 mil per he might have taken fewer years and stayed in NY!
The cost of a Rauch they could have had Reyes!
And if they just matched what the Marlins offered they would have had two years @10Mil to fix the finances enough to afford the remaining years!
My guess is they don’t think they will fix those finances by then which tells me Reyes isn’t the only one who we will see going in the next 6 years!
Would have been interesting to see how the Reyes sweepstakes played out this off season if Miami wasn’t opening up a new stadium and Loria wasn’t trying to make a big splash.
If this was a couple of years ago and Miami wasn’t in the lottery, I would have been curious what offers other teams would have made and how this would have played out.
As far as we know, Miami and the Mets were the only 2 offers Reyes received. Without Miami involved, wonder if Reyes would have received that guaranteed 100 MIL he was asking for.
SRT. You’re more welcome to get me any link, anywhere where says that reyes is asking for $100+ million… i want you to take your time and look it up… with that being said, every player wants to make as much $ as they can, if it be it 100$ million then fine.. Molina somehow just got $70 to 75 guarantee from the Cards, you think he’s upset about it? also, i am sure if he would’ve waited longer somebody would’ve coughed up the money, maybe the tigers do, maybe the mets trade wright to open up $ for reyes, who knows, but, as we all know, what’s done is done, our snarky GM didn’t want him back, so be it, instead we got rauch and francisco, so, shut up and put on your lousy tshirt of U they handing out..
“What’s done is done.” The most intelligent words you have ever spoken.
Yep, those word can be used for a lot of things like us havin a GM who doesn’t give a ****, that famous strike out in 2008, injuries in 2009, jason bay in 2010, sandy alderson snarkiness and apologists in 2011 etc…
Right, so no need to talk about them anymore.
https://twitter.com/#!/joelsherman1/status/136169633140056064
There are numerous articles out there all implying this same thing: Reyes was looking for a 100 MIL contract.
If you are looking for a link where someone printed a Reyes quote as actually saying that, you won’t find one. That would have been incredibly stupid on Reyes’ part to have been quoted as saying that.
If you’re implying that he was never looking for that kind of money, then I think you’re really fooling yourself there.
And you really need to temper your disappointment on this one. Telling me to shut up because I speculated on what other team might have eventually submitted an offer had Miami not been in on it is really on the childish side.
It’s obvious that Jose wanted a 100M contract. That is why no one besides the Marlins even made an official offer and why Jose jumped on it without hesitation.
Again, what’s done is done. It’s over. Time will tell if it was a smart baseball decision or not. The same with Wright, while I loved watching both of them patrol the left side, very few players start and finish their careers with the same team. Sometimes you have to move on to move forward. Ask the Red Sox and Nomar.
Alex, it was common knowledge. Even Wilpon in January of last year said “he want’s Crawford money”. That was almost a year before he signed his deal. Players never say what their contract demands are directly to the media, they have agents for that. So asking for a quote from him is unfair. Can you provide a quote from any player this offseason who said “I want this much dollars”?
Joe D, Wrong, he said “he think he’ll get crawford money” that was the owner saying that, he sh**** on beltran and reyes, and no joe D, like i told SRT, no player actually revealed what they’ll make. agents do that but under x circumstances, prince’s agent wanted $200 million, then there were talks of him getting around $180 at most, then BOOM, tigers blow everyone out the water and give him $214 million, if jose had waitted you don’t think the market would’ve increased? who knows what really happened, one thing is for sure, THAT was not a baseball decision, that was a sandy alderson didn’t want reyes desicion and/or a we don’t have the $ desicion, for wilpon to say to our faces that that was a baseball desicion is a STRAIGHT UP lie!!!!!
You seem to be taking both sides of the same issue here?
You say Wilpon saying not re-signing Reyes was a baseball decision is a lie.
But for three months you have been blaming Sandy Alderson for not re-signing Reyes.
So which one is it?
Was it a baseball decision by Alderson, or a non-baseball decision by Wilpon?
‘if jose had waitted you don’t think the market would’ve increased?’
This is all I was speculating on. If Miami wasn’t involved, how many other teams might have been in on him – the later into the off season it went – and which team would have signed him and for how much.
Don’t shoot the messenger, Alex. It’s not my fault the Mets didn’t sign him. I wanted him to stay in NY too.
From the looks of it at the time, not many and none willing to offer 6/100. I think that is why his agent said you better take it while you can.
That or he really wanted to go to Miami all along and that offer was just icing on the cake.
I think I read the Marlins original offer was in the 5/90 range so once they bumped it up, it was like ‘Jackpot!’.
Let’s face facts. The Mets are having some financial difficulties but even in the best of times, the long term demands of Jose Reyes were likely to be rejected by almost all teams. From a standpoint of being an on-field leader, Jose was MIA in 2009. He played in only 36 games and stole just 11 bases. He had health and injury reasons. In the second month of the 2009 season, Reyes went on the DL with a calf injury. Instead of coming back a month later as expected, Reyes took himself out of a training game. An MRI showed a tear. Reyes himself said was different than the initial injury. Then Reyes had yet another injury, a torn right hamstring, while rehabbing in August. Why would a team make long range plans with a guy whose game depended on speed but who was having problems with his legs?
Besides any strictly baseball issues and ability to stay on the field, Reyes’ negotiating team were amateurs, who acted as if they were ready for Judge Judy. They nor anyone else knew exactly what the market would pay for Jose. Yet they made a rigid up front demand and tried to negotiate in the media. They subsequently implied there was bad faith on the part of the Mets’ front office. That was a fruitless, dumb tactic. It would have ticked off the people on they needed to strike a deal. Jose wound up taking money from the only team that would pay his demands. He’s gone. Since I think he’s basically a nice young man, I hope he learned something from his episode. Never in his life again will he have the opportunity to make as much money in a business deal.
When the Mets have gone out and brought someone in here money has never been an object and now all of a sudden with one of our own, in his prime and a well above average offensive player at a key defensive position the money dries up.
We’ve lost guys to FA before, some we tried to retain and other that decisions were made on and luke warm offers given but never have we not gone to the wall with a guy we really wanted who really was the heart and soul of the franchise and the most iconic Met since Seaver.
I can’t prove it but I think Cashen was very leery of Straw’s off field activity and his hometown team was going to drive up the price and Straw had been flirting with Lasorda all along. Hampton we went all out for. Olerud we didn’t. Fonzie wasn’t even offered arb or even given an offer.
If the bet hadn’t been placed on Bay the money would have been there and the deal would have been done in ST 2010 when his hamstring had been proven to be healed.
Wilpon sounds so confident that he must know he will win the Picard case. He’s already counting the money. And by the way don’t be fooled by this man and his cronies. He is playing Met fans for suckers. He needs Citi Field filled with fannies or lose another 70 million. You know companies tell you how well they are doing when the rumors start and then in the middle of the night they declare bankruptcy. The numbers here just don’t add up at all. And by the way did they find all their suckers, er partners to throw in their 20 mil each? Don’t rule out high gas prices hurting attendance. This could be a real wild card.
Of course he wanted 100 M. Why wouldn’t he? As soon as I heard what Crawford got I said to myself, this ‘aint good for retaining Reyes. C’mon a SS compared to a LFer? I know there are a couple of differences offensively and the injury history is different as well but if you were going to trade them even up (in 2010) it’d be a pretty strong debate which guy you wanted and I would have chosen Reyes. Add in guys like Dunn (4/56) and Werth (7/127) and how couldn’t you see Reyes getting 100? That to me was the floor on what he was going to get.
It was a baseball decision to structure the parameter of any kind of deal to health (AB’s and games played) but if money were no object would that have been the case? Bull Shiiiiittttt. If money had been no object it would have been taken care of back in 2010 and the owner would have made it priority #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6 and #7.
Teams who really want a guy do not let him get to that free agent walk year. the biggest reason for the Mets lack of success is their inability to ever look beyond this year. Back in 2010 with two years to get through and health to prove Reyes might’ve been able to work with 5/90 Take the option and put it on the end of the deal as a player option making the whole thing worth a guaranteed 100 M and throw in a club one for 20 and you got your SS from 2011-2015 or 2016. You also have Tejada, Havens, Valdespin and even Murphy as 2nd basemen, backups, depth or trade candidates. Then you go and get two imperfect players like Gomes and Endy who compliment each other’s weakness or you go in house with Evans/Fern for a year or Sheffield/Reed/Sullivan/Church or something but you take care of one of the most important pieces that you already have for the long haul first.
None of those ideas were ideal but things rarely are when you leave it to the last minute and at least SS would have remained taken care of all the way through Reyes 33 year old season and 2/3rds of his cost we wound up spending on Bay anyway.
There is no way to know how a guy coming over here in free agency is going to play or even if they’ll even be able to stay on field but with Reyes at least you knew you were going to get All Star level play from SS if he could remain healthy and there’s no way to say for sure that a guy like Evans/Fern/Gomes/Chavez/Reed/Sullivan/Sheffield/Church or whoever couldn’t have wound up having a good season and maybe even become a good trade chip themselves.
Back in the 2010 off season the talk was all about adding HR’s but if anything it should have been about preventing runs because our 2009 pitching staff gave up the 2nd most runs of any Met pitching staff since the mid 60′s, and that’s with a good, proven (and proven in NY) in his prime SS, not to mention an extreme pitchers park.
It always comes down to one thing in this organization and that’s partly the fault of the fans as well as the thin skin owners. Every baseball decision gets made for business reasons right around ticket selling time instead of what’s in the best interests of the club for now as well as later and it’s not just in baseball where there are so many gullible fans in NY. Back when the Eagles were signing every free agent under the sun Jerry Reece had to angrily fire back through the media about the lack of “moves” in the off season but as a man charged with running a team over numerous years he knows that sometimes it’s better to remain below par in one area until the right solution is available and that you don’t risk losing the right guy somewhere else in order to bring a potential solution somewhere that if it doesn’t work costs you at the spot your tying to fix as well as a spot you’re already good at.
By November 2010 this team was essentially working under a salary cap and what money was available should have been prioritized instead of just hoping that a guy who hit 36 HR’s in the AL, in the Red Sox lineup and in Fenway Park would do the same here, and do it as he was entering the age at which players traditionally enter their decline.
First off on what parameter was this “BASEBALL” decision made?
Bad Fielding?
Couldn’t Hit?
Wasn’t performing?
What aspect of his BASEBALL wasn’t worth 106 mil?
As for what everyone thought he wanted AKA “Crawford Money” He didn’t GET crawford Money so lets stop bringing that up since thats not what he signed for!
People say he wanted 100Mil yet can’t produce a single quote stating that! But guess what he DID get over 100 Mil!
Others claim no one else was interested but they were most definitly interested just had not made him a priority like a Pujols, Wilson or Fielder! Only the Marlins did that! He was due to meet with other teams and the Marlins played him like a fiddle and said here is our best offer, take it now or we are moving on!
People say he went for the money yet he could have gotten more if he had visited those other teams and called the Marlins bluff!
He didn’t take the money he took the place!
Playing in Miami or NY is a damn site better than playing in Milwalkee if your a spanish speaking player! Lots more to do, Warmer climate, More excitement and press!
We were probably the ONLY team who had as much locational desirability as Miami!
And we showed no interest at all.
They say it was for baseball reasons and now claim it wasn’t money!
So it was injuries bottomline they didn’t like and while there is good evidence in their favor for thinking that way the solution would have been to get him a medical staff whose main charge was to keep reyes limber stretched and healthy!
They did that once before and it produced seasons of 160+ games!
They can say whatever they want but it smells like it was based totally on money and now they are grabbing onto any excuse to justify it!
If it was a Baseball decision though it says one thing for sure…
Sandy made the call on Reyes not Wilpon!
Or we could take them for what they said. Health, years and cash. Thus a baseball decision. This is so old.
And who made that decision? Fred or Sandy?
Not important now but if Reyes starts playing like a Hall Candidate the rest of his life that piont will be significant when the arguments over WHY he left are debated!
You see I know many will try and pin the decision on Wilpon when we are hearing now that it was all Sandy as he makes the baseball decisions!
My point is perhaps they came to a baseball decision together after factoring in health, years, cash and current state of the team. Signing him would be a gamble as well as not signing him. Time will tell which gamble was correct.
Well I would say your point is lets find some REASONABLE DOUBT to not hang a BASEBALL DECISION of the guy who makes BASEBALL DECISIONS, reports those to the owner and then gets approval!
You have never been a manager anywhere have you?
Well this is how it works.
Wilpon pays Sandy to make and report the BASEBALL position!
Wilpon decides on the money stuff such as setting budget and approving going above it!
Sandy is paid to make the case for the baseball decisions Wilpon only overrides those decisions or agrees to them!
Unless you can show that Sandy wanted him and Wilpon said no then Sandy is more to blame for that baseball assesment than anyone!
Both agreeing only means that Wilpon didn’t override the decision Sandy made!
And if it turns out to be a mistake it’s on Sandy for not getting it right or not making the case so that the boss could make the right decision!
And if you have ever screwed up a corporate assignment at a job you KNOW that is how it works! The Boss will fire you for not consulting him to make the right decision!
It’s all on you to give him the right advice or to change his mind when he doesn’t agree with that advice!
IF your making the right call!
All you really need to know about whether this was a “baseball decision” or a money decision is Reyes from 29-33 vs. a supplemental round pick and either a mid to late 1st rounder or an early to mid round 2nd rounder. That’s it.
Now I’ve been pretty critical about us spending our #1 and #2 picks on guys aged anywhere from 31-40 years old but to take care of SS for 5 years it’s obvious as the day is long that it wasn’t a baseball decision.
From 1997-2006 2/3rds of 1st rounders make it to the Majors and that includes guys like Kunz and Stoner. There is no question that we should have done a MUCH better job in the draft but a well above average SS, and the heart and soul of the team is far superior to the picks.
Baseball wise it’s not even close.
The owner sets the budget, the FO has to work within that budget. that’s the way it is in baseball and every single other industry anywhere in the world. If Fred had said the 2012 budget is 110 M with Reyes or 90 M without what do you think Alderson does?
Then, and only then could anyone say it was a baseball decision.
It could have been a baseball decision just a bad one! LOL It may be a good one if Reyes never finishes his contract but then again how many guys have had to retire for Hamstring issues? Especially when they can hit! Thats the real problem here if you really don’t want the hammy issues you should at least keep the bat, Put the brakes on him and not let him steal as often. have the 3B coach hold him at second instead of being agressive and waving him over! Lots of ways to manage a guy with bad hammys! He still hit 300 and got on base plenty so that alone is worth 100 Mil!
And if it wasn’t and just a money decision it was also bad since they didn’t keep that money off the books and spent it on guys who will do far less for far less longer than Reyes would have!
The Financial siuation may be dire now but if they can’t correct that problem in two years when Reyes actually gets his first raise in pay from last year they have much bigger issues than is Reyes worth the money!
They will spend MORE than that for half of what Reyes would have brought here!
So all around no matter which side you think was the deciding factor the only way the decision was good is if Reyes falls of the MLB table, Can’t finish his 6 year contract or hits like Tejada from now on!
That and that small window that two 2nd round level draft picks will do as much as Reyes!
If there was a 1st rounder on the table it might make more sense but they knew full well what they were getting from Miami in return when they said no!
I seriously don’t get how some people (seem the same people) keep wanting to defend alderson and the wilpons for the situation with this team and about reyes… How was reyes a baseball desicion? how? please let us know because, with all the records reyes would’ve broke as a met and who knows if maybe he’d be well into the 2000+ hits 2500 hits the mets as a organization would’ve marketed him and get tons of profit back on reyes’ milestones alone, the yankees do this ALL THE TIME, what, the mets can’t do this? Alderson from DAY 1 didn’t like reyes, taking shots at him and what he does by saying stuff like OBP it’s what matters, SB are overrated etc, let’s see how he does, yet people here STILL defend him, he’s just like wilpon, a Liar, he’s here to shed payroll and bounce, look how well his “phylosophy os money ballin did in Oakland and how he left san diego as well, it’s amazing to me how much of a pass this guy still get when he’s WON nothing since his steroid junkies A’s won a championship… Amazing..
It’s not about defending either. It’s about the fact that there are in fact two sides to each story and there is a legitimate case that Jose was not worth 6/100 to the Mets.
Yeah I would like to know what case could be made there as well!
Injuries?
I mean really? thats all?
Only 99 guys in the entire MLB played more than 140 Games! Only 150 played more than 126!
Out of 1114 Players!
In 2010 he Missed a bunch of games at the start due to a thyroid issue not his legs! Missed 13 games in August when were pretty much out of it and mostly because we put him on the 15 day as opposed to something shorter where he was ready but couldn’t come back because of that listing.
Before that he had a bad injury in 2009 so did a lot of guys we had!
And before that had 4 consecutive seasons of 153 Plus games per season!
Truth is if not for his early injuries (AT AGE 20 and 21) he really hasn’t been injured all that often since 2005!
But you guys make it sound like he misses massive amounts of season every year!
I suppose Henderson in his prime would not be worth 100 Mil either?
He only played more than 150 Games 4 times in 25 years!
there is a legitimate case that Jose was not worth 6/100 to the Mets”
Which is?? Broke? alderson didn’t want him? his OBP wasn’t sexy enough?
Health, years and cash.
I have answered the question over and over again. You just don’t agree. Again there are two sides. The issue is that you don’t see any side but your own.
So Rickey Henderson wouldn’t be worth 100 Mil if he was in his prime and player either. Is that what you believe?
Why does it matter what i believe? It is about if there is an alternative side that is also logical. Also comparing Reyes and Rickey?
Because ur making judgements on the correctness or wrongness of the move based on those beliefs!
As for the Rickey and Reyes, Both missed a ton of games due to hamstring injuries!
Especially in their prime!
If Injury was the reason then Rickey wouldn’t be worth that money either!
If Years were the issue well Rickey is a fine example of a guy who had chronic Hammy problems yet played well into his 40s and was productive all that time to boot!
Which says if it isn’t either of those two it was all about Money NOT baseball!
And would it be wise to turn down a Ricky Henderson in his prime over that amount of money?
Not suggesting what the answer is just phrasing the question in a way that lets you work out if it was worth it or not.
“As for the Rickey and Reyes, Both missed a ton of games due to hamstring injuries!
Especially in their prime!”
You sure about that? From age 24-28, Rickey had exactly one season in which he played fewer than 142 games. From age 24-28, Reyes only had two seasons ABOVE 142 games.
I’ll play the cherry game!
From Age 22 – 28
Reyes had 4 season of 153 games or more
Henderson just 2!
Reyes has 1 Batting title, How many did Rickey have?
Got more cherries to pick?
Ex that one year in 1981 Rickey played in 108 games but the team only played 109 games due to the strike. After Rickey turned 30,he played over 140 games twice. With Reyes turning 29 this year,there’s no way in hell I’d give him 6 years.I don’t think Rickey ever got more than a 4 year deal and he was on a whole other level compared to Reyes
How is that picking cherries? You said prime, not me. How can we compare Reyes’ age 30 season? Then you added his age 22 season? Really? YOU decided the parameters, then twisted it, as usual. Did you even know there was a strike? You want to play that game? Fine. From age 21-28, Reyes played in 140 games four times. From 21-28, Henderson played in 140 games six times, plus the strike season in which he played in 99% of his team’s games. You’ll probably still find some way to twist that.
You picked ages conducive to removing Reyes three full healthy seasons in order to make him look like he is always injured!
When I talked about prime what was Rickeys GP during the course of the years that would encompass reyes’ contract?
Cause 28-34 is where Prime always was before that!
And the contract Reyes signed is for his PRIME years not the last two or three!
but when you pick years based on cherries you like I will do the same thing until it frustrates you to the point that you stop doing it because you hate the cherry response back!
I see you have no answer for the 21-28 seasons. That’s ok, I knew I was right. And also, if you say prime, but really mean age 22, then at least clarify instead of letting me take you at your word then getting on me because your word actually meant something else.
I see your still avoiding the question would Rickey at age 28 be worth a 6 year 106 Mil contract or not?
Still ignoring the fact that despite the same Hammy problems he played well into his 40′s and compiled a HOF career!
Still ignoring the fact that Reyes is just about to HIT his prime which you have said is the time to lock up guys long term!
You still don’t or either refuse to get it. It does not matter if YOU agree with the decision there is a logical case to be made for either side.
What was the logic? Or better what was the BASEBALL logic?
The LOGIC you gave had very little to do with BASEBALL!
You said Injury, Years, Length
And I just showed you how Henderson was as injured as Reyes which leaves you with the question is it LOGICAL to not sign Rickey for 100 Mil in his prime?
Just because Fred said it was a baseball decision doesn’t mean it was.
If Alderson had a big market budget to work with he would have blown Reyes away just to make sure we kept him. With the budget that he did have to work with the only possible chance to get him was by not getting into a bidding war and that involved some posturing on his part and as always there was posturing on the part of the FA to be as well. That’s what happens when you wait till the last year.
Things did work out as well as we could possibly have hoped. We did get a great year from Jose but we also got a couple injuries which must have put a little doubt in other teams minds and the reality is he did sign at or near what was doable, albeit for 100% guaranteed money vs. our probable 60 M guaranteed. Huge difference true but also without a no trade so who knows who is actually going to be paying off that deal.
The posturing by the FO while necessary to have any chance to sign him did in fact allow one aggressive team in and they went the max; even to the point of going take it or leave it before the Winter Meetings in order to avoid bidding against anyone else.
The Marlins were able to exploit our weakness and no bidding war ever ensued. Really a shame but the time to do something was 2010 when he had two years to go. You just don’t run the risk of losing a long term piece like Reyes by letting him get into his walk season. Recession or not MLB FA’s set a new bar every year. Crawford and Werths signings did hurt but Reyes should have been settled long before them if he was considered so vital to the organization. Some amount of shared risk could have been worked out between all the parties but once you let it go to the last season you’ve kind of already placed a ceiling on the players value in your own mind and sent a signal that other things may have to be considered and once you do that……………………………..
Fred has always said that a GM can come to Him, Jeff and Saul and state their case but imo Reyes deserved consideration over and above the 90 M dollar payroll set by the Wilpon’s as a “Franchise player.” Why not? People who come out to Citi and watch on SNY love to see Jose play. He was a guy that could have been the bridge to Harvey, Familia, Mejia, Kirk, Havens, Valdespin and Lagares and remained the heart and soul of the Franchise and an established veteran of the METS, not some vagabond here for one last payday to lead those new young guys.
The owner cut the budget. When Alderson got here he talked about 125M and how “not all the money coming off would be reinvested.” The reality is none of it was and for those that want to put all the blame on Alderson for every single issue this one provides a perfect opportunity and the Marlins were able to step in because the owner of the NY Mets didn’t step up and even if the comments in the New Yorker magazine wasn’t meant for the public they still reflect the owners personal feelings.
Now maybe there was a very good reason only one team went all out for Reyes but I still think he was worth the leeway of spending some of those dollars coming off because 20 M a year is about $250,000 per home game so the combination of 1250 more people with tickets actually using them and 2000 more people buying tickets and the additional money spent by both at the stadium would have paid the tab. That’s not inconceivable to say the least and doesn’t include road revenue, SNY ratings as well as other things.
Murphy and Tejada would have been a real good offensive/defensive platoon in theory at 2B and Tejada could easily spell Reyes if he went on the DL for 3 weeks a year and at least Reyes could have gotten a day off once in a while which may very well have been part of the problem all along.
There may be more about this that we don’t know. eliminating future financial obligations is a big part of the selling process and with a judgement against them still a possibility maybe having a “poor” team is an advantage. Who knows? Maybe if the Einhorn thing closed in July things are different. Maybe teams would have complained about us taking on commitments when we have loans outstanding like they did when the Rangers were taking on salary while being propped up by MLB or maybe there were conditions in the loan.
The facts are that our owner has stated he intends to be here for a long time. Our current GM isn’t likely to be here as long as Fred is planning to and Fred’s the one who sets the budget. He’s the one that should have stepped up I don’t think there is any question which direction Alderson goes if he’s told the budget is 110 M with Reyes and 90 M without.
“Just because Fred said it was a baseball decision doesn’t mean it was.”
truth in that!
But again even if it was a budget move we still spent everything we would have spent on Reyes the next two years on guys that won’t be here in two years!
We didn’t really SAVE any money by not signing Reyes, We just spent it on other BASEBALL concerns and it can be argued that those concerns did less for the long term than giving Reyes the money would have!
We didn’t commit to 100 M this off season. We committed to about 20 M. That’s not even remotely the same thing. You can’t look at it on a year by year basis. Signing Reyes cost 100 M over 6 years, that can’t be denied and as far as baseball decisions go it was as obvious a good baseball move to make as signing Beltran.
Guys who play elite defensive positions well and have neutral platoon splits are among the most vital components of a winning team especially in the National League.
There should have been additional cash allocated for Reyes without having to skimp elsewhere. Everyone knew when he was going to be free to sign elsewhere. Everyone knew that October 2011 one of our very important pieces had to be retained.
Where was the money? It was pissed away and while Loria of all people could step up our owner didn’t and left the Marine to take the heat and some are unwilling to say so because they don’t like the direction necessitated by two decades of monkeyball.
Now we have to do the same thing the NYY had to do in 1990. I don’t hear too many Yankee fans complaining now do you?
Still and all if it was so important to retain Reyes where was the money? It never was put back into the team, where’d it go? Alderson hid it in the rafters of a VFW in Weehauken?
C’mon.
And Reyes makes 10 Mil this year and next!
So you traded 2 years of Reyes for one year of bandaid!
And if the financial situation isn’t fixed by the time he gets a 5 Mil raise from what he made last year then not signing him certainly didn’t solve the financial problem did it?
Which begs the question what was the point?
Reyes, after getting a 106 M commitment allowed the marlins to structure it this way.
10 M
10 M
16 M
22 M
22 M
22 M
4 M* buyout
Think the owner of the franchise could have ponied up an extra 10, 10 and 16 M for the first 3 years. Of course he could have, but he would have had to pony up the 3 years at 22 as well.
He knew when Reyes deal was up. He didn’t wake up on September 30th, go to vault and find it empty. He spent it, on one last desperate double down two years before.
Doesn’t fit the preferred story line of the anti Alderson crowd but it does jive with the facts and by ditching K-Rod and closing Einhorn the money’s probably there otherwise why wouldn’t Alderson have dealt him?
Thought no one would notice and he could sneak off with the cash?
That’s funnier than the contaminated sample story.
Yep so Reyes was at a 1 Mil discount the first two years!
If we could not afford the 16 MIl raise then letting Reyes go did not FIX the financial problems
And by the time the years he would be making 22 Mil came around we would have shed another 41 Million off the payroll from Santana and Bay!
SO in essence the Reyes deal was a saving of 2 Mil short term, Only a 5 Mil raise in the middle and the additional 6 Mil per the last three years would have come out of that 41 mil Saved on two guys who are even less worth the money than Reyes is!
That would leave you 23 Mil minus whatever Wright gets if he gets to get another FA!
Enough for an Ace Pitcher to complement Harvey Familia and Wheeler!