1
2012
What Would Success Be To The 2012 Mets?
An article by 
On this, the 50th anniversary of the Mets, I am sure they’ll have a better record than their founding fathers, but not have much better odds of success.
The ultimate success is defined by winning the World Series, followed by reaching the playoffs, winning your division, then finishing over .500. Realistically, a lot of things have to break right for the Mets to have a winning season.
But, with all that seemingly out of their reach, what would define a successful season?
I’m narrowing it down to a handful of things:
- Some resolution, either way, to the Mets’ financial struggles. There’s such a negative feeling permeating this franchise because of the unknown ramifications of the Ponzi scandal. Even a court decision will go through the appeals process, so it won’t happen this summer. But, a little movement one way or another could tell us what direction the franchise is heading. Even if the news is bad, that’s better than not knowing and speculating.
- A healthy and productive David Wright is important because he’s the face of the franchise and has been a shell of his All-Star self. If the Mets are to rebuild, they’ll need plenty of young pieces and Wright is the only player capable of bringing in that kind of talent.
- A strain on the Mets are the contracts of Johan Santana and Jason Bay. If they can be healthy and perform even remotely to their potential, perhaps Sandy Alderson can find a taker. He did so with Carlos Beltran and Francisco Rodriguez and their impossible contracts. Maybe he can do it again. Yes, I know we’re talking a long shot here.
- The Mets have some young talent that offers hope of better days. Jon Niese, Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Josh Thole and Daniel Murphy aren’t without ability. You can throw Bobby Parnell in with that group, too. Maybe these guys can show us a glimpse of something promising in the future.
- The Mets desperately need a fast start against the brutal schedule in April and early May to avoid a double-digit deficit before the weather gets warm. If the Mets can play alert, aggressive baseball out of the gate they might draw some people to Citi Field and perhaps curb some of the flood of red ink.
If all of these things happen it won’t guarantee a winning season, much less the playoffs. But, should they happen it might ease the negativity swarming around this franchise and that would be a start.
About the Author: John Delcos
I am an active member of the BBWAA and have covered Major League Baseball in several capacities for over 20 years, including ten in New York working the Mets' and Yankees' beat. I covered the Baltimore Orioles for eight years and the Cleveland Indians before that. I currently serve as an editor and senior staff writer for Mets Merized Online. Follow me on Twitter @jdelcos.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 25 | 18 | .581 | - |
| Nationals | 23 | 21 | .523 | 2.5 |
| Phillies | 21 | 23 | .477 | 4.5 |
| Mets | 17 | 24 | .415 | 7.0 |
| Marlins | 12 | 32 | .273 | 13.5 |
Last updated: 05/19/2013
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Your number 4 leaves allot to be desired. “Jon Niese, Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Josh Thole and Daniel Murphy aren’t without ability” I agree that Davis is good. Niese is average at best. Duda is raw and could be a good fourth outfielder on a good team, but the rest have shown us zero. Both Thole and Murphy are god awful defenders. Murphy is simply the worst athlete on this team. The kid can hit some doubles and the occasional homer, but this isn’t the AL where you can DH him. The ball will always find someone like him. He can’t play 2B as many Murphy supporters are going to say. You need to be athletic and he isn’t. He can’t run, can’t slide, or run the bases properly. He is overrated simply because of the “he’s one of ours” mentality that people have. He’ll be out played by Tejada in the spring and Cedeno will start at short. If Thole had allot of pop in his bat, I could see putting up with his lack of defensive skills, but he doesn’t.
Your hate Murphy delusion continues. Have you ever watched a baseball game except on TV? Played a baseball game?
Yes. My whole life and I’m 45 years old. I still play fast pitch softball. Any more questions smart guy? Can’t wait to see him bomb out again just before he again hurts himself.
Defense is the only issue with Duda. he looks to have a prime time (as in, starting) bat.
We shall see. He does seem to have a very good awareness of the strike zone and a good eye. Now, he’ll have to adjust since teams have gotten a good look at him.
LOL, there is no way in hell that Tejada is playing 2B and Cedeno short unless Turner AND Murphy get injured AND Tejada can’t play SS.
Eh, I’m not in agreement as much with #5.
We’ve seen teams get off to a great start in April, be in first place in May, only to finish in last place.
Would be nice to get off to a good start but not sure the revenues would be much different if they have a poor April/May but strong Aug/Sep and visa/versa.
Now getting off to a poor start and never getting close to .500 all season…yeah, the crew at Citi field won’t have to worry about cleaning the stadium much other than to wipe the thick dust off more than half the seats….
69-93… not much you can call success from that record.. unless you’re the pirates.. you get draft picks early in the round and trade players for more prospects..
While I am no 1st or worst guy I do think that unless you are going to be competitive what’s the point. And sorry I still say that if they had signed Reyes (considering the budget they would not have been able to do ANYTHING else on the FA market) they would still not have been close to competitive this year. So might as well develop some players take your lumps and see what happens. While you are not expecting to compete you could have an Arizona type year, most likely not and you keep building for the future.
Ahhhhhh IC…
SO you think we HAD to make the team worse just so we could play in Free Agency buying up 2-3 Million dollar scrubs! and then overpaying for a Closer who lost his closer job somewhere else!
Yeah your rational alright!
So it doesn’t matter if you make the team LESS competitive as long as TRS86 has something to read about and applaud in the offseason even if the move made isn’t really all that good!
Interesting take that has nothing to with what I said…
“I still say that if they had signed Reyes (considering the budget they would not have been able to do ANYTHING else on the FA market) they would still not have been close to competitive this year.”
Again that is my view. I don’t think that regardless of Reyes signed or not signed they would have been competitive this year. Does that mean I want them to make the team worse? Nope. I am just dealing with the reality that they could not afford to keep Beltran, Krod and Reyes no matter what moves they made and Reyes alone would not have kept them in competition as proven last year. With SP as you mentioned and with no money to get SP this team was doomed with or without Reyes. Which is why so much emphasis is being placed on the pitching prospects.
it is fair that with the unique issues facing the team now, there are going to be different measures of success.
not finishing in last would be a success for us this year.
actually the FO probably wouldn’t mind finishing last,they would get more draft picks,they’re only real concern anymore.
metsaddict77, the CORE salutes you…
Sad but true. A last place finish would bring a smile to DePo’s heart.
Success to me would be having this team be watchable through August.
What success would be is seeing Harvey and Familia at Citi in September, Havens being healthy and Wheeler dominating AA. The success must come from the farm, not the majors.
You just hit th nail on the head. If that happens with the young guys coming up and the young guys already at the big league level continue to progress,IE,Ike,Duda,Tejad,Niese,etc… Then I would call the season a success.
Also having Wright,Santanaman and Bay all being healthy and contributing solid seasons would also be a huge lift for the franchise.
1. Healthy seasons from Davis, Wright, and Santana.
2. Steady improvement from Reuben Tejeda at SS to ease some of the pain of losing Reyes.
3. A miracle improvement from Mike Pelfrey wherein he wins 12 w/ an ERA under 4.50
4. Lucas Duda avoids a sophomore slump and proves he can hit LHP and play decent RF
5. Josh Thole shows improvement behind the plate.
6. Bullpen doesn’t implode on a regular basis as it did in 2011.
7. Jason Bay finally starts to hit.
Of all of these, I view Davis, Duda, Wright, and maybe Tejeda as most likely to happen. This team has an awful lot of “IFs” that have to break right for them in order to have even a shot at .500 in 2012. But as we’ve seen in recent years mostly they break wrong for the Mets. Maybe the most successful thing that could happen is to wake one day to the headline: “Wilpons Forced to Sell Mets”
WELLLLLLLLLL…Cosidering all the GOOD DAYS and GOOD MOVES Sandy has supposedly made this offseason why are we not expecting to win the World Series?
Ok Why not the newly expanded Playoffs?
No?
How about 3rd place in the Division?
No there as well?
I wonder WHY when it is said our FO is taking the team in the right direction?
Short term, tunnel vision you have a new name….
Ah so you believe going backwards is going forward!
I see!
Hey I’m not the one who said we were making smart moves and going in the right direction you short skirts are the ones who have applauded the whole offseason away!
Anything less than 77 Wins and you skirts will have a lot to answer for!
Wow, so because I have a different opinion than yours that happens to be rational (one that you disagree with but rational) I get called a short skirt?
Again, what is the point of this and how could anyone take you seriously? Why don’t we meet in the school yard at lunch and punch this one out. You can bring your daddy and I will bring mine… by the way he is bigger.
trs, it seems you’re the one who takes exception with people who think differently than you. So your opinion is rational and everybody elses is not.
Okay, sure.
Bay find a post where I said that disagreeing with me is irrational. My problem is again that because I have a different opinion I get called something from a middle school sleep over.
you do realize you yoursefl just called Metsie a name for having another opinion. that’s all i’m gonna say on this, you’re the resident new drama queen around here
not a name but the “bring your daddy to the schoolyard” remark is in the same vein. Like I said, another new drama queen
Again you can’t read or you have no way to take things in context. My response was in the fact that everything here has to have responses of that of a middle school kid. “Again, what is the point of this and how could anyone take you seriously? Why don’t we meet in the school yard at lunch and punch this one out. You can bring your daddy and I will bring mine… by the way he is bigger.”
It is tiresome that just because you don’t agree with someone else you are on someone’s jock, a short skirt or whatever else makes you giggle in the back of the class.
seems like you’re the one having a period whenever somebody disagrees with YOU. Like I said, you’re the new drama queen around here
Bay if I did not like people to disagree with me then why would I come here? In fact why would you come here? However, I enjoy discussing and arguing baseball where you guys seem to enjoy acting like a bunch of middle school fools.
It the standard reply from you cheeleaders whenever facts get in the way of your propaganda!
Jessup calls people insane and you say they are irrational!
Yet whenever discussion talks about how well we might compete both you and he readily admit our chances are slim to none!
Yet we are going in the RIGHT DIRECTION aren’t we?
Yes if your a Phillies and Marlins fan I guess you could say that!
Also if you would notice, I never said your view was irrational. Only that you viewed ours as 100 false when in fact it is rational yet you choose to disagree which of course is your prerogative.
“Wow, so because I have a different opinion than yours that happens to be rational (one that you disagree with but rational)”
Nothing Rational about your opinion!
You think we are going in the right direction and readily admit this team is worse than last year!
There is no RATIONAL though just irrational!
Of course it is rational just as most of your views are, they just happen to be different. However, I see no need to call you a name for your view… that is what separates us.
The rational comes in the fact that we did not have the money to keep Beltran, Krod, and Jose. In fact Jose by himself would have been most likely more than they could have afforded and even then that would have been most likely it. So while you can be upset that they did not keep Krod and Beltran, it would be moot for this season as there was no money to keep them. Signings of DJ Carrasco, Fransisco and Rauch would not have changed that… yeah they could have most likely paid the raise for one year of Jose. Unfortunately they would have still not been able to afford anything else.
So to your question, notice how I am treating you with respect and dignity, yes I can see a way that while they are worse than last year’s team on paper at the MLB level they can still be moving in the right direction long-term. If you can’t see that then so be it. No need to call you a name or lower myself to that level.
Just because metsie want’s to win now doesn’t mean he has tunnel vision. He has his own mind and doesn’t change his brain-set with whatever front office takes over. Maybe if Sandy made some smart moves with the little money he had instead of investing everything into a not so certain future than he can compete and develop at the same time.
People make it sound like this is the first time in Mets history that they are attempting to develop talent, it’s sickening how people all of a sudden have lost everything they’ve ever known and have fallen into the lap of this new front office.
Again, I already said I thought the Rauch signing was rushed. However, I do think differently in the fact that it would have taken a perfect storm for the Mets to compete this year regardless of signing Reyes, dumping Wright, not signing Pelfrey… there would have been still too many holes to compete this year and if it did not work you would be one more year behind in the process.
I have said all along that regardless of Reyes they needed to find out what they have with a lot of guys. Who are Davis, Duda, Thole, Murphy, Tejada, Havens, Niese, Gee… will Wright rebound, Johan be healthy… all those things regardless of Reyes have to be figured out. If some of those come through this year then the rebuilding phase speeds up dramatically. If not and Duda flops, Murphy can’t play the field, Wright is still putting up last year’s numbers… then they are going to have to start from the ground up and that would have been true with or without Reyes.
And are we going to be competing at all without the best leadoff hitter in the game, without our leading RBI producer from 2011 and without a TRUE Closer?
Funny you think we had no shot at competing WITH Reyes and don’t care that we spent more money on crap than if we just gave Reyes his raise and left our competitive fortunes to what Santana gives us plus whatever Ike could contribute now that he is healthy?
The team as built LAST YEAR needed a REAL ACE STARTER not relievers!
We only needed relievers last year because we had Starters who couldn’t get out of the 5 or 6th inning!
Now it won’t really matter if they can because we won’t have the offense to HAVE a lead to protect because we decimated our fairly potent offense!
I don’t see how taking a STEP BACK is a STEP FORWARD!
You and Jessup do however!
The savings on Beltran and K-Rod were more than enough in a single year when coupled with the 20 Mil that came off the books from Perez and Castillo!
Maybe if we didn’t WASTE all that money on Carrasco who turned into a big load of NOTHING you could have used HIS mioney to get what you got this season for the PEN!
Bayonne is right in that I don’t really care if you think cutting Salary is a good idea thats not the issue I have with you and the Pleated Skirts!
It is the incessant cackling about how GREAT everything is, and what a great job Sandy is doing when you know full well we are HARDLY done with the salary dumps and we are MUCH FURTHER away from competing than we were just a year ago!
And before things get better doing what you think needs to be done we are going to get even WORSE!
I’m fine with the notion that we need to get a lot worse before we get better, thats the nature of a rebuild!
What I am not fine with is the attempts to make a turd pie sound like it’s PROGRESS!
This team is NOT progressing it is DIGRESSING!
And if you cheerleading Yahoos would admit that the moves we made are NOT progress, NOT long term solutions and mere Bandaid, ROSTER STUFFING PLACE HOLDERS until Sandy can dump the rest of the Salary you might find that we would be less inclined to argue with you Pom Pom waving fools!
So as long as I conform to your opinion you won’t act like a lazy middle school student? Yup that makes perfect sense.
Now that being said, where are all my post praising Sandy’s every move? In fact if you do enough research you could find many more post where I praised Omar’s moves than I ever have Sandy’s. Yet because of your inability to compute or rationalize because I have a different opinion than you on many issues, I am now the same as someone else. Thus I am guessing you are the exact same person and have the exact same views as Bay, Alex, and that idiot from Metsblog running around accusing Murphy of killing President Kennedy.
It has nothing to do with my opinion!This is the one thing EVERYONE agrees on!
It has to do with you guys trying to sneak rose colored glasses onto every act Sandy makes!
As for your opinion WE actually agree if you hadn’t noticed!
We BOTH think the team is worse and will win less!
This is the one FACT that is not in dispute by ANYONE!
The only DIFFERENCE of opinion here is YOU and Jessup seem to think thats a good thing and then dare to call that thought RATIONAL!
Yet thopse of us who ADMIT the team is going DOWN not UP are called INSANE and IRRATIONAL despite the fact you actually agree the team is worse!
Here is the problem….
The team is WORSE than last year Sandy is doing a GREAT JOB! Is being called a SANE and RATIONAL thought!
And the guys who say:
The Team is WORSE and Snady is not making us batter are being called insane and irrational!
If your opinion was Sandy isn’t doing a good job because he can’t then you might not get into these arguments with me!
But thats not what you guys say!
You say he has a GOOD day and is doing a GREAT job!
And I would agree in this respect….
He is doing a great job DISMANTLING this team and making it worse!
So as long as I conform to your opinion you won’t act like a lazy middle school student? Yup that makes perfect sense.
Now that being said, where are all my post praising Sandy’s every move? In fact if you do enough research you could find many more post where I praised Omar’s moves than I ever have Sandy’s. Yet because of your inability to compute or rationalize because I have a different opinion than you on many issues, I am now the same as someone else. Thus I am guessing you are the exact same person and have the exact same views as Bay, Alex, and that guy from Mets blog running around accusing Murphy of knocking off JFK.
Pray tell what does Omar have to do with this? This has nothing to do with Omar or what he did!
At least not with me!
Omar did a good job yes, he got us to the Playoffs in a year of taking over, Drafted and acquired:
Dickey, Davis, Duda, Murphy, Tejada, Turner, Harvey, Familia and Mejia just to name a few!
But I certainly am not judging Sandy based off Omar!
I am using only the ROSTER CONSTRUCTION as the criteria here!
We are a worse team than we were just a year ago!
and YES it may have not been avoidable in some respects because we were going to lose Beltran pretty much no matter what the money situatiion was!
But I’ll be damned if I’m going to applaud Sandy for capitulating to “The Excuses” and not being CREATIVE in finding better players to make up for it!
He Surrendered and it was very UN-Marinelike!
Where was all the statistical analysis we heard about?
Where is all the CHEAP UNDERVALUED TALENT you all touted when he got here?
Basically every move we made ignored the stats and looked at the salary!
NO WAY TO RUN A TEAM!
But here you are saying Sandy did a good job or backing up the Cheerleader who claimed Sandy had a GOOD DAY!
Yeah about as rational as a guy claiming he is napoleon!
So you honestly think that the Mets regardless of Sandy could have afforded to keep Jose, Beltran and Krod?
Again, the state of the TEAM is about much more than the current product on the MLB level. Payroll was going to be cut if Sandy was here or if Omar was here. They were bleeding money because of poor performance with a high budget. Either way they could not bring back guys like Beltran and Krod. They just could not afford them. So if you are asking if for the future of the Mets based on the current financial state that they are in if they are better off without those two? Sure. Now back to the question on Reyes, if they could have gotten in within the current budget then I think they would have brought him back. They could not so why lament over the decision? As to if Sandy is doing a good job? I am not one to run around and say he is or is not. To me it is WAY to early to judge based off of one season and two off-seasons. Regardless of if I like a president or dislike a president I am going to give them more than their first year in office before I label them a failure. Think politically just for a second… I know that is dangerous. Would you blame President Obama that the country one year after he took over was in worse shape financially than they were the previous year? Or would you give him time to see if his reforms work? I guess that is where rational comes in again. I am a Republican but how could I blame Obama after one year in office? Now that he has been in 3…
You gave up reading for Lent didn’t you?
You want to make excuses for Sandy making the team worse feel free!
But the bottom line is the TEAM IS WORSE!
You don’t deny this and neither does jessup!
Yet you say he is doing a great job!
Could they have keopt Reyes? Sure they could have!
For the same amount the spent on Francisco and Rauch if they had shown even the slightest interest in Reyes when they had an exclusive shot!
Could have even made the deal LAST OFFSEASON for much less than what he got!
They passed on that opportunity and waited to approach Reyes after he was already in the lead for the batting title and said he would not talk money once the season started!
You didn’t lose Reyes because of how much money the Marlins gave him NOR did we lose him because we couldn’t afford him!
We lost him because we showed NO DESIRE to sign him, no ENTHUSIASM about having him on our team and prefered instead to go waste whatever he might have taken on Relievers who had failed where they were which is why they were so cheap!
We chose cheap scrub filler instead of using the money towards keeping the best leadoff hitter in baseball!
Even AFTER saving all the money we did by letting Beltran and K-Rod go!
Go back and find countless post where I say “Yet you say he is doing a great job!”
Also, let me ask you this…
Would this year’s team be better on paper than last year’s team IF they had resigned Reyes and had no money to spend on any relief pitching at all?
Also your entire post is full of assumptions that they could have gotten him for the same offer as the Marlins, that he wanted to come back, that the Mets did not approach him earlier.
Nor do you seem to grasp the idea that there was no money stock-piled by letting Krod and Beltran go. That was not money they could have went out and spent… they did not have it to start with and were having to borrow money just to cover expenses while losing 70M.
“Could they have kept Reyes? Sure they could have!
For the same amount they spent on Francisco and Rauch if they had shown even the slightest interest in Reyes when they had an exclusive shot!”
How can you write something so utterly moronic?
Did we give 100 mil to Rauch and Francisco?
What the hell is wrong with some of the people here?
Coming to this site is like going to a Ripley’s museum in Myrtle Beach and looking at the 2-headed snake and the boy with 7 fingers!
Hilarious!
“Would this year’s team be better on paper than last year’s team IF they had resigned Reyes and had no money to spend on any relief pitching at all? ”
Yep it would!
Because you don’t need a reliever when there is no lead to hold!
Get good starters and relievers are not all that important, pray tell who is the most likely next big kid to come out of the Minors? Ever hear of Harvey and Familia?
And as for your saying Sandy has done a good job you say it everytime you agree with Jessup!
Hey Kingman do you know how much Reyes is making this year compared to last year?
Have any clue or just talking out opf your butt like the short skirts have been?
Look it upand get back to us!
I think you will find Reyes is making almost the same thing he made last year!
And if we had made the SAME DEAL we could have traded him this year, next year or anythime over the next 4 or 5 years and get more than what amounts to at best two 2nd round picks!
We didn’t even get a first round pick for him in compensation!
And you wonder why we have no money to spend wasting VALUE like that?
Since I know niether of you will make the effort and even if you did would never post what you found here is a little info to chew on….
Last year Jose Reyes made 11 Mil when all was said and done!
his current contract pays:
2012 10 M
2013 10 M
2014 16 M
2015 22 M
2016 22 M
2017 22 M
2018 3M (Option)
If this team under Sandy could not solve the attendance/financial issues by 2015 and carry a guy who took a 1 Mil pay decrease for the next 3 years until that happened then no way in any rational universe can you say Sandy is doing or did a good job!
Now tell me and everyone else with a straight face HOW we could not afford Reyes for 1 MIL less than last year and still get one or two Relievers with the money we saved from K-Rod, Beltran, Perez and Castillo?
Got any answers there?
Or will you now hide behind Jessups everything he does is GREAT skirt and his Pom Poms?
So let me make sure I got this.
You think this year’s team would be better on paper than last year’s team without Krod, without Beltran and no relievers added and just bringing back Reyes? How the hell does that work? How could it be better when you took off “two of the three best players”?
Again, your plan still has the Mets being a worse team than last year. As bad as the one currently being fielded? Debatable this year, and yours most assuredly worse down the road.
Seriously, I feel like the cop in Ruthless People when Bill Pullman tried to rob Judge Reinhold in the park and the cop said “This might be the stupidest person on the face of the Earth.”
Every source everywhere said that Jose wanted a 100 million dollar deal. Which he signed as soon as it was offered.
Why in the world would he have signed a 1 or 2 year deal??
But you know that he would have; in your infantile quest to cry in your orange and blue milk and shake your rattle incessantly, you insist that if Sandy had not signed Rauch and FranciscoAFTER the 2011 season, he could have used that money (which was, oh, maybe 80–85 million short of 100 million) to sign Jose a long time earlier, for a year or two and maybe 25 million.
Jose signed for over 100 million, not the 15 mil that was spent on Rauch/Francisco. But I know this math is advanced.
You don’t even know how crazy this is, do you?
Alex, all I can say is that I hope at least YOU can see how ridiculous this person is!
It would be better on paper than the team we have now wouldn’t it?
And isn’t that really what we are talking about?
Has Sandy done the BEST JOB HE COULD?
Assumptions that he would have taken the deal he took?
Really? Is that a rationization to you? Why would he take THAT deal?
BECAUSE HE DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DUH!
Just goes to show how UNINFORMED and GULLIBLE you guys really are!
You buy into the propaganda that jessup and the FO has pushed WITHOUT QUESTION!
Bridges for sale! Everything must GO!
And we are the morons, the crazies and the irrational!
It should be noted that SHOULD the FO not do a good job and get replaced by 2015 we could also have traded away that backloaded contract for better picks than we got from the Marlins…
But I suppose your gullible and limited thinking never even considered that let alone bothered to see how much Reyes actually took to play someplace!
Yes he would have taken that deal you know why?
Becuase he DID take it!
And you can’t say he would not take a deal he actually did take!
Hey Kingman you really have no clue what Reyes is making do you?
And you want to get into a debate without even knowing the facts?
No wonder you look so foolish right now!
“Now that he has been in 3…”
Maybe in another 5 he could begin to undo the damage done by 8 years of Bush and Cheney!
Just kidding TRS.
Buddy, how can you lower yourself to trying to have a serious argument with utter fools? Bayonne doesn’t think Murphy should walk more because he knows the game! It’s fair to judge Sandy after one year when he has dealt with the biggest one-year payroll cut in the history of the sport!
These guys are MORONS.
Seriously TRS, as Mark Jackson used to say when he announced for the Nets, “You’re better than this!”
Yeah we couldn’t afford reyes for a Mil less than last year and WE are the morons!
As is usual with you cheerleaders, Spout bullshit and then call the world crazy for not agreeing with your outlandish crap!
You do know that Jose signed for 6 years and 106 mil guaranteed, right?
The Wilpons are broke and struggling to hang on to the team–you know this, right?
Sandy could not commit 100 million+, as was clearly ordered by the broke and struggling Wilpons.
Your premise is not just stupid, it’s crazy.
Kingman & trs: fun fact… I have been mentioned by name 7 times in this thread by one person.
Times I’ve commented (until right now) on this thread? Once.
jessep February 1, 2012 at 11:36 am .
Success to me would be having this team be watchable through August.
No replies to that comment.
Thanks for the laughs fellas. Your Team Jessep t-shirt is in the mail.
And you do know reyes took a pay cut until 2015?
If the Wilpon finances aren’t fixed by then well then Sandy won’t ever create a winner!
All of these cuts are predicated on fixing the finances and if signing an All Star for 1 Mil less per year is not part of that how is signing a reliever who won’t be here in 2015 a GOOD IDEA?
Get a clue dude!
If we could not afford paying Reyes his 5 Mil raise in 2015 then NOTHING sandy will ever do will make us winners!
Which is what I have said all along when this LETS REBUILD WITH KIDS thing was first proposed!
Lets try a different direction. Even if the Mets had a 200m payroll right now why in the world should the team re-sign Reyes, Beltran and KROD. Based on what we know if the 3 stayed, just for next years obligations Reyes would be 10m, Beltran would be 8m, and KRON would be 17m (If you really think he would re-negotiate the bonus, then fine use 8m). 35 million on 3 guys that have provided no results since 2006. None. Just choke jobs, injuries and fist fights. That’s it.
Since 2009 I’ve been advocating giving Reyes the boot and been out there questioning the why people keep thinking that all of the sudden they are suddenly going to complete. The definition of insanity is doing the same action and expecting different results.
This team needed to go in a different direction and unfortunately the Wilpon’s screwed the pooch and the transition is going to take much longer than it should.
No Gary,
Insanity is saying in one sentence that the team is worse than it was and then in the next sentence saying the FO is doing a GOOD JOB!
He’s doing a BAD JOB and if you want to blame it on something else but him feel free but stop trying to make Sandy sound like he is doing something PRODUCTIVE and call a duck a duck!
Salty…the voice of sanity.
It really is just that simple.
Where is I say “FO is doing a GOOD JOB!” and praise Sandy? Where? I didn’t. I said Reyes, Beltran and KROD suck and I’m glad their gone.
You folks keep twisting statements around into this Sandy paranoia when the comment is not in agreement with your own.
Salty: I’d like you to know that I haven’t pissed on the MMO boards in over 2 days now lol
Despite several attempts to bait me into these constant mindless arguments I have stayed true to ignoring those comments and discussing only the topics at hand with those who deserve a response. I will continue to do that
haha Salty… Jessep = Ratings!
I am still writing for the site. Just concentrating more on that and more on the discussion of baseball rather than people who want to waste their work day arguing points (or bringing up the same points over and over)
I’m still here, I’ll still give my view but I won’t take part in the constant back and forth and the junior high school antics that plague this site on a daily basis.
Our writers are too good to have their blogs flooded with pointed fingers at commenters on subjects unrelated to the actual blog.
Ahhhh… but that is where the conspiracy theory comes in. Because you disagree with him, you thus must agree with Jessup thus you are the evil in society. Just as if you agree with Alex on any point you must then also agree with everything Bay says as well.
Come on we have this figured out by now, Jessup is in the tower window and SRT is hiding behind the grassy knoll.
LOL….Yup, I’m the sharp shooter.
Honestly, these conspiracy theories are exhausting.
Although I know they’re not just limited to the Mets fan base.
Please don’t give fuel to this team stuff. Hell ask Kingman if him and I agree all the time… LOL. However, what always unites us is the ability to combat irrational stupidity.
Ok Gary time to call he BLUFF!
Do you think Sandy is doing a good job? If so why? If not WHY NOT?
Jessup – Patton fired zero shots in WWII, How many times did he get credit for the victories?
Your the one they agree with!
Your the one who says he is doing a good job!
If Gary takes the bait and answers that Sandy is NOT doing a good job I can’t wait to hear your response!
Metsie, It probably would of made sense to ask me my position on Sandy before assuming my position to start with. Also please don’t connect Jessup with anything I say. The only reason I am aware of him is the consistent pissing match between him and the rest of you. We are different people and have different opinions.
Sandy Move I like: Trading KROD and his 17m Bonus (even if there was no financial constraint) , trading Beltran for Wheeler.
Sandy Moves I don’t like: Not trading Reyes last year before injury (big gripe on my list). The pagan trade. Not a fan of Pagan at all, but feel you only make a trade like that if there was a better option at CF.
As for the Rauch and Francisco signings I am really indifferent to them. I feel he looked at all the glaring needs (SP, BP, OF, C) and made the most cost effective choice of what to address.
As for an overall rating for Sandy I am neither on the hate train or savior train. I want to see what happens once the Madoff issue is resolved and if the Wilpon’s know if they can stay or sell and how the team is addressed afterwards. Money will be spent on this team again once they are out of the mess, that when I feel true measurement should be based on.
Am I pissed, sure! But I’m pissed about the whole situation it’s not focused on a GM.
Pretty much agree.
I like the Krod and Beltran moves, understand why they did not trade Reyes during the season. I think he should have waited on the 2nd reliever, and I actually liked Pagan but think that getting the BP piece was more valuable. I would have signed a better catcher to pair with Thole and would have also given Endy a look to partner with Torres.
Jessup if that is the case I will probably be reading less on the site. I don’t know what you did or say but I firmly believe people are refreshing the site every ten minutes to see if you created a article just so they can attack you. I have no dog in this fight and can care less who wins the pissing match but it is high entertainment to read those comments. To be honest I barely skim the article I just want to read the train-wreck.
You know that’s honestly a good point. I have no idea what my end goal is most of the time.
I never thought winning would go out of style among Mets fans, or that wanting to win would get you labeled as irrational. The culture sure has changed with this new front office. Poor Tug must be turning in his grave.
Get rid of Santana’s, Bay’s and Wright’s contracts!
Finish on 4th place!….That is the best you can expect!
Like winning the world series for us!
being an original 50th year fan of the mets i am asking for only one thing. please keep david wright for another long term contract as to me he is the face of the mets. he is a gamer and good for baseball instead of the barry bonds of baseball
We are all chumps for putting any money in the Wilpons pocket. They could care less about us and only on keeping control of their sinking ship. Sandy is a short termed, only here to be a sheppard of MLB’s dollars.
Last year we were competitive in the first half due to Reyes, Beltran and some guys like Krod, murph and Gee stepping up. With Reyes, Beltran and Krod gone ( arguably our three best players) how can we expect any success….We added nobody of stature or impact in the off season. Looking at a 60 – 102 season. Let the money ball spin begin. For a guy with a good pedigree ( whether deserved or not) Sandy has really soiled himself by getting in bed with Fred and Jeff and feeding their crap to the masses
How might one expect to afford an impact player? We be broke.
By not spending his salary on 4 or 5 scrubs instead!
Tell me do you have any clue what Reyes Salary is for this year?
Why don’t you check it out and see how not signing some of those scrub relievers would have paid him and then some!
So you think that Reyes would have signed for 1 or 2 years for a total of maybe 20-25 million?
Are you 12 years old? Severely mentally ill? Just enjoy being mocked by adults?
Really, what is your problem exactly?
Other than extreme stupidity…
Now now Kingman… lets not stoop to the level of calling them stupid, just under informed or rationally impaired.
LOL!
I just remember your classic comment at Metsblog a few years ago.
But, as usual, you are right.
Won’t be able to stick around much, but this really is a place which provides more comedy than Richard Pryor on his best day.
Looks like someone is getting pulled into Bizarro World.
Hahaha! No sir!
Just had to stop by because, as a wise man once said, “Sometimes it’s fun to toy with idiots.”
Seriously though, as I said above, reading some of the things people here write really is like looking at a 2-headed snake in a jar or something.
Just hard to believe I am really looking at it!
Yep we idiots who think paying 10 Mil for an All Star, Batting champ, premiere leadoff hitter is better spent money than 15 Mil on two failed closers!
Why can’t you think outside of the first years of the contract and make a judgement on what’s best for a team and whats best for Reyes?
Reyes jumped on that contract because it was the best one out there. He did what is best for him and his family. He now can live less than an 1 hour flight from DR instead of 4 hours. He is also on a team trending upwards. Also after all the injury plagued seasons and failed season’s, don’t you think he maybe wanted a change of scenery?
On the Mets side (without putting financial contraints in play), they have paid a lot of money for him to not be in the lineup and it historically takes him over a month to get back into peak form once he returns. Now he commands much more money, he is older and he is proving the leg issues will be consistent throughout his career. When his style of play are based on those legs why would the Mets want to go in that direction?
Well, my last contribution to this truly sad debate is that it is mind-boggling that you think Reyes could have been had for 10 mil, and beyond comprehension that you think the choice was between Jose and Rauch/Francisco.
I guess it is good for society that people like you have anonymous outlets like this from which to vent your inane pontifications from your crib, cage, cell, or whatever.
Tell the men in the white coats I said hi when they come to clean your bedpan and readjust your straitjacket.
Yep and it’s mindboggling to me how you can say he would not take a deal he actually DID!
Gary if Rach and Francisco is better for this team then Reyes well how can you rreally argyue with retarded thinking like that?
(Yes I decided to turn your own tactics on you and called you retarded!)
Tell me something though….
Whats better for the long term interests of the team?
Wilpon’s bank account or building a roster thats worth keeping?
Wow just really confused by your statement, where did I say you are retarded and where did I say the team is better off with the two bullpen signings over Reyes. Also, if you are going to call me retarded you might not want to have spelling mistakes in that statement.
Take a deep breath and read what I write if you want to have a real discussion.
By no means do I feel like the team is better with the BP signings over Reyes in the short term. In the long term yes, but only because there will be no financial constraints of the Reyes contract.
After 2008 it was very clear that the direction needed to change. I don’t fault Omar for compiling the team, he did a great job. It’s the simple fact that not all teams work out and after 2008 that was very clear. This is where Omar failed. Instead to changing course and making foundational changes, Omar continued with the belief that the constructed team can win and made patches with large financial obligations. Those did not work out. If the “Core” did not get it done, why not change course? Seems logical to me. The problem is the team can only change the financial obligation side and not the investment side.
Currently the mandate of the team is no financial obligations past 2013. You can’t rebuild under that mandate, you can only cut. This will make the turn around of the team much longer. So even if they ignore the mandate and did sign Reyes, isn’t that a waste of money since the rest of the team won’t be legitimately ready for 3 years (which is Reyes’s prime) for a real run of being competitive?
Well I guess you guys over at Mets Blog don’t really know the details of the reyes Contract!
Maybe your Pom Poms obscured the info!
6 years, 106 mil guaranteed, including the 4 mil buyout option on year 7.
Francisco and Rauch together–15.5 mil over the next two years.
Every source said Reyes wanted 100 million.
He signed for 106 million apparently as soon as it was offered.
Dispute any of this Metsie, or take the chance to prove that you may have 1 or 2 functioning brain cells?
And how much does he make the next TWO years?
20 Mil…Dispute that?
Or not?
15 Mil for one year of two guys who likely won’t be here next year!
As opposed to 10 Mil for an All Star!
And your busy buildfing the 2015 team which if they haven’t fixed the finances by then neither Rauch or Francisco is going to be affordable either!
But no you don’t get the math involved here!
Reyes money mnay seem like a lot but he doesn’t get it until 2015 and you can trade him if theings don’t get better with our GENIUS running things!
That’s a heavily backloaded contract that only a few teams may be able to take on. It wouldn’t be as easy to move as you think. It was the length of the deal that made less appealing for us.Add that to the fact that we were a mediocre team with him having his career best season last year and the constant back pedaling of the franchise the last 3-4 years,it was time to go in a new direction.
Everything hinders on the wave of prospects knocking on the door. If they’re as good as advertised then we’ll come out of this shit much sooner.If not then we’re in for a long ass rebuild.
You are right that his contract is back loaded as hell but you are also assuming that he would have signed a similar contract with the Mets. Not only that but the Marlins did that of course so they could reap the current reward and then of course trade him off if necessary and have the other team pay the damage. I applaud the Mets for not caving and giving a player such a dangerous contact just to appease the fans…. (tongue in cheek). What I am really curious about is if the Mets were not in financial turmoil would they have have beaten the Marlins offer and continue to spend like drunken sailors with no thought towards future issues.
Tell us all WHY he wouldn’t have signed the same contract here?
PLEASE give us you RATIONAL reason for that!
d if you say it’s because Sandy didn’t show enough interest please put that into the HE’S DOING A GOOD JOB perspective for us will ya?
Because ownership would NOT allow Sandy to offer the contract! How much more obvious could it be?
And offering a player with Jose’s history of injury and inconsistency that deal would have been nuts anyway.
Notice he only got ONE offer like that??
Hmmmmm……..if you had the ability to, this info might make you think…….
Oh really…you have proof of this?
Isn’t it convenient when all the other excuses get spoiled we go running back to blame the Wilpons…
How convenient!
Sad but convenient!
Can you prove it wasn’t?
Maybe we can play a game here. Who is the closest to bankruptcy? A) The Wilpons, B) The Mets, C) Sandy Alderson?
I would think that C can be eliminated right off.
Hey What school do you work at!
I woulod like to discuss their Time Management issues with them!
Yes because he didn’t just take their first offer and listened to other teams!
Proof it wasn’t just about going to florida!
Who offered him a contract other than the Marlins?
Certainly wasn’t Sandy GOD FORBID he sign anyone really good!
Hmmm, could it be because he would rather play for the Marlins? Could it be that the contract is worth significantly more in FLA than in NY? Nah… Because if we had offered the exact same contract as the Marlins he was obviously going to take ours…. This is just getting too much, we are going in circles.
the way this all played out, I 100% believe that he had the move to Fla preplanned.
Ahh so supposition is RATIONAL and FACT is IRRATIONAL/CRAZY/LUNACY/RETARDED!
I get it!
Thanks for aditting that it will speed things up from now on!
An adit is an entrance to an underground mine which is horizontal or nearly horizontal, by which the mine can be entered, drained of water, and ventilated.
There, see I show no bias in my teaching.
Kingman26, from the days of metsblog back in the days, the CORE still salutes you!!!!!!!!!!
Well Alex, I salute you too, and there sure is a strange core here!
Lmao! you’re buddy TRS86 is here.. trying to command a troop as he did in metsblog…
Actually I am just here working… Maybe it’s because I teach HS now instead of middle school and miss the drama of irrational thinking.
Jeez no wonder America is in the shape it is in!
Hey I only get them 90 minutes a day, I can’t stop generations of stupidity. Perhaps you could look into genetics to solve your issues?
The Justice League salutes you as well…. LOL.
Metsie, where are you? I gave you the responses you are looking for. Don’t be like the rest and run away only to spit the same venom on the next unsuspecting forum poster. Pleasantly waiting for your reply kind gentleman.
Recces.
Dang it, recess.
Run run as fast as you can, you can’t catch me I’m the belligerent Mets fan!
Where am I?
Lets see….
UNLIKE YOU who appears to be on government assistance or unemployed and have all day to spend on a website hoping to target someone so you can feel strong about your depleted state
OR
Get paid by the government to teach children on school days but don’t and instead go onto a blog to call people who think LOSING THREE ALL STARS is a GOOD THING….
I happen to work which pays taxes which pays the salary of the slacking off school teacher and unemployed slouch who needs the unemplyment check that my taxes pau for to carry out his hobby!
Did that explain it to you Gary about where I went?
Or would like a map as well because reading is a bit of a problem for you?
Yes you answered the question I posed!
Youi think losing three All Stars is GOOD and SMART and keeping them is BAD…so BAD in fact we should have RUSHED to do it!
And thats why you don’t have anything to do all day and can’t understand why other people WORK and you do not!
Ahh, so your one of those that believe the right wing agenda of discriminating against people out of work or people that work in the public sector. Your comments and views about the Mets put a pretty little bow around your entire package, don’t they.
I work at a software company in the private sector and I am very fortunate to have a very successful career where I am going to be able to provide many opportunities to my children.
There are so many people hurting in this country who have been out of work for many years, or underemployed and are scraping and fighting every day just to get a meal on the table. Your statements are so ignorant, so out of touch, so beyond reality that I can’t even feel sorry for you. You just don’t have a clue and your not worth anything more than anyone else in the country.
Those public sector people, the ones that teach our kids, fight the bad guys while you cower in your basement afraid of the poor. Those are the soul of this country. They choose to be paid shit because they want to serve the needs of the many. I don’t know where you live but next time you are in the city why don’t you go to the 9-11 memorial and spit on it. Those stupid government workers running up those stairs when everyone ran down. Go to the memorial and you tell the people around you they are shit because they are paid by the government. You can’t, because you are just a pathetic troll on the web spitting his venom.
You are a very misguided human being.
No I’m one of those who think someone getting paid to teach children should be teaching them and not spending their time trolling on Blogs when the School day is open for business!
As for the Poor I have no problem with the poor or unemployed!
Just the ones who sit on their ass posting on Bliogs when ythey should be posting to job sites!
And then expect EVERYONE ELSE in the world who IS WORKING should conform to their “HAVE NOTHING TO DO ALL DAY” reply Schedule!
Nice Rant…you should run for office!
You definitly have the quality for Politics where screwing up something is considered PROGRESS!
Your perfect for CONGRESS because as Galagher once said…CONgree is the opposite of PROgress!
Which fits right in line with your opinion on the direction the Mets have taken under Sandy!
Wow, you can’t even backtrack without stepping in a pile of shIt.