Not saying they will, of course. Obviously this is a trio of “ifs” and might fare no better than most of the free agents they signed the past year or so (Kapps, Kennedy, Marquise, Batista, etc. who are now all playing for different teams).

A lot of their guys that are up here and playing well right now are younger than the guys were waiting/hoping on in the minors right now like Havens, Kirk, Den Deker, Gorski ect.

Flores showed some good signs before 2006 and since he was taken hasn’t really has an extended run. Most rule 5′s just get buried and he was no different but he had to be buried the following year too because his first year he got hurt, then he got hurt again so it’s not fair to say he’s had his shot and failed. 32 doubles and 21 HR’s as a 21 catcher (who projects to stay as a catcher) in A+ is probably rarer than you might think. With absolutely no other credible prospects at that position other than Pena (Thole was learning 1B) it is simply inexcusable to risk losing him regardless of how things turn out.

Lots of catchers come on strong at his age. Carlos Ruiz didn’t break in till he was 26 just to name one guy. Even if he never beats out Ramos at least he’ll get 40 starts this year and we’ll see if he shows anything even without getting to play everyday.

If we still had him there is no question he would be the #1 and compliment Thole’s weaknesses, as Thole would cover his (OB) and Nickeas would be AAA depth and the team would be stronger for it.

Evaluation going forward is the GM’s job, not backward. You can get any office secretary in a fantasy baseball pool to tell you what a guy did the year before.

Appier cost a number one pick, Phillips and Bobby V liked him so much they traded him for Vaughn who was out of baseball for the whole year before and was so out of shape he couldn’t even pretend to play 1B and run? He did lead the league in strikeouts though so at least he had that going for him.

Real good usage of a number one draft choice though. One year of Appier and one and a third years of Mo. Really helped with the bottom line too 82-80, 75-86 and 66-95.

And the only reason why the guys they called up are better compared to ours, is because they have been getting the top picks almost every season – If you take out the Strasburg and Harper picks(which no skill was required to draft them) the guys they have called up wouldn’t really be any better.

And about Jesus Flores, other than that one year in A ball, he’s done NOTHING in his career, and he’s not that young anymore either, he’s going to be 27. And by the way, last year he hit .209 in the majors, and .234 in AAA – He’s NOT above average.

Kevin Appier – His last season with Oakland before signing w/Mets
15-11, 4.52 ERA, 1.55 WHIP, 195 IP

Kevin Appier, age 33 – HIs only season (2001) with the Mets:
11-10, 3.57 ERA, 1.19 WHIP 206 IP

Boy that was a real bad signing (sarcasm)

Vince Coleman – age 28, signed by Mets after hitting a career high .292, 77 SBs

Sure a couple of these signings didn’t work out but guess what:
SECOND GUESSING as usual

So what if Omar drafted Desmond, he’s still a part of their team, what does that have to do with anything?

Lannan – Gee, not a bad comparison but Lannan’s been around a little longer, Gee looks like he’s getting exposed a little and Lannan could very easily be optioned down this year, Gee could very well start as our #3.

We’ll just have to disagree on Flores and see if he can make a career for himself. Since 2007 he spent half of two years as a 3rd string rule 5 and half on the DL, then got reinjured himself in rehab and now he’s playing behind a very talented catcher so we’ll just have to see what the future holds, in any event it wouldn’t even be a competition between him and Thole and while the two farms are fairly equal when you compare recent graduates we’re eating dust. C’mon, since 2005 the Zimmermans, Strausberg, Espinosa, Storen, plus Renden and Harper and 5 decent young pitchers at different levels of the farm and the goods to pick up Gio and two (imo) good young catchers? Can’t understand the negativity over the job they’ve done. I think they’ve done a damn good job and it’s going to make the hill a lot steeper for us with all these guys in their early to mid 20′s.

So yeah I see Philly fading somewhere between now and 2014, Braves being in it, but being passed by Washington and Miami getting just one post season and having the whole thing turned into a circus followed by a sell off. Who’s gonna stand in Washington’s way then, Us?

Take the hoped for best case scenario for us and go roster spot vs roster spot starting with Strausberg – Harvey and work your way down and you tell me where we come out ahead. Probably 1B as it stands right now.

And your massively overrating them, just you did with Atlanta last year – A “bare minimum” two WS’s? Come on.

John Sickels ranked their minor league system only one spot ahead of ours in his rankings. So lets not go crazy with their prospects because they aren’t much better than ours.

“They also selected well in the 2nd round with Jordan Zimmerman and Danny Espinosa. Morse and Desmond in the 3rd round, and Lannan in the 11th.”

Morse wasn’t drafted by them, and Desmond was drafted by Minaya, and Lannan isn’t any better than Dillon Gee…In fact, Gee is probably better.

Maybe you’ve been out of touch for a while.

Let me fill you in. Twelve losing seasons in the last 21 years, half of them with 90 or more loses.

Three post season appearances in the last 23 years. Thank God we at least led the NL in payroll during this time period or it might have been worse.

What’s your suggestion? Bring in a few more Mo Vaughn’s, Kevin Appier’s, Vince Coleman’s and Jason Bay’s?

Good thinking.

That’s the only way we can really expect to rebuild what has been dismantled – a good farm system with players coming supplemented on trades (including at least with arbitration coming up) and free agent signings – not just rebuilding from within. With the payroll still projected to be cut over the next two or three years, such a combination is unlikely and so are our chances to leap from past the Nats.

Dude – you are clueless

In support of his opinions he has nothing. He wants a team comprised solely of Mo Vaughn’s and Jason Bay’s and other assorted former all stars put out to pasture by their former teams.

Like I said, the guy’s got nothing. Nothing to back up his opinions or upstairs.

Vinny B just listed something in black and white and he STILL has excuses

But making excuses is that nut case’s MO, correct.

I feel sorry for anybody who wants to debate that pathological misanthrope in the future because:

1) You will NEVER have the last word – give him the last word is my advice
2) The man has an answer for everything and we all know about people like that, especially if you have kids. This psycho apparently never outgrew that trait. So I suggest to always let him have the last word
3) People like that are ardent internet debaters but would fall FLAT on their faces and be exposed in real life

The guy is crazy and I’ve been saying that for a long time. Like I said before he’s like one of those homeless subway people that enter a car all disheveled but will mutter and ramble on and on and on about the government and politics. Sure they are well read but the fact is people like that do suffer from a mental problem. Kind of like an autistic person who can rattle off incredible mathematical formulas, but can’t feed themselves.

The reality is the farm systems of those teams, and the one’s you left off had a lot to do with their winning unless you consider Molina, Pujols, Jay, Craig not to have played much of a role for St. Louis. or Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hart, Gallardo to not have mattered for Milwaukee or their gutting of the farm for Greinke and Markum.

Arizona’s kind of a mutt type team with a 70 M dollar payroll and cheap waiver wire/non tender guys but Montero, Upton are stars and they got Kennedy because of their farm, as Detroit got Schezzer and Austin Jackson

Detroit is a team that’s major contributors were FA’s, salary dumps or simply shrewd trades but even their farm delivered big time in Verlander, Porcello and Avilia as well.

Without the heavy lifting of the aforementioned players all these teams are in 5th place.