18
2012
New Court Filing Says Picard Lawsuit Built On Shaky Evidence
An article by 
Irving Picard: Can he prove Wilpon was a willing participant in Ponzi scheme?
Michael O’Keefe of the Daily News reported about some new documents filed by the Mets in Manhattan federal court on Thursday as they continue to push for a summary judgement to dismiss the suit by trustee Irving Picard, before it goes to trial on March 19.
Mets lawyers are arguing that Picard has failed to prove that the Mets’ owners suspected Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme and took deliberate action to avoid confirming the fraud. The papers outlined several inaccuracies and inconsistencies with what Picard alleges in his complaint.
Picard mischaracterized testimony from Peter Stamos, a partner in a hedge fund created by Wilpon and Katz, when he claimed Stamos had warned them about Madoff.
“The trustee has now deposed Mr. Stamos twice,” Thursday’s filing said. “Both times, under oath, Mr. Stamos stated categorically, emphatically, and unflinchingly that, up until the day Madoff’s fraud was disclosed, he believed Madoff to be a most honest and honorable man and an exceptional money manager, and that he never warned any Sterling Partner that Madoff’s lack of transparency, or anything else, was a ‘red flag’ for fraud.”
Thursday’s filing also says the Mets owners’ did not shop for Ponzi scheme insurance, as Picard has claimed, and also disputes Picard’s argument that Noreen Harrington, “a hedge-fund executive who had been a whistle-blower in other cases”, had expressed concerns about Madoff’s returns.
“She was aware that her accusations were utterly contrary to the facts known to Mr. Katz for many years, and, when probed by Mr. Katz about her Madoff accusations, she offered no facts to support her opinion and told him she could be wrong.”
“The trustee offers no evidence to dispute the record presented by defendants, which demonstrates that, for good reason, defendants trusted Bernard L. Madoff until the day his fraud was disclosed and never for a moment thought that he or his brokerage was engaged in a Ponzi scheme or fraud.” Mets attorneys conclude.
Remember what I’ve been telling you…
They have to prove that Wilpon knew of the fraud AND deliberately ignored warnings.
Say it out loud a few times so you could realize how impossible that will be to prove without a shred of indisputable evidence or a smoking gun.
Meanwhile, Picard also filed papers on Thursday reiterating his request for Judge Rakoff to award him $83 million in fictitious profits before the case goes to trial. I could see the Judge granting Picard’s request because I’ve always believed and said that the $83 million was all the Wilpons should be held liable for and not a penny more.
But here’s the ironic part to all of this which many seem to ignore and has been very under-reported in my opinion.
There’s the separate filing by Mets owners who are seeking to recover $160 million in “net-loser” claims. A lawyer who has been following these proceedings told me that the “Mets have as much of or even better chance” of being awarded said amount, than Picard has of being awarded anything above the $83 million.
So what does this all mean?
Simply put, Mets owners Fred Wilpon and Saul Katz could actually come out ahead when the dust settles and net $77 million in gains, NOT losses.
But shhh… Keep that under your hat… Nobody wants word about this leaking out to the masses…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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PickPocket Picard Plummets . . .
So Joe, IF the case is dismissed or Wilpon soon wins it, is it fanciful to anticipate the Mets having a competitive baseball budget by next year?
Bob, my hope is the All-Star break. This way, they can be buyers if the team is playing over their heads again and take a shot. Worst case, they’re on solid financial ground by free agency with a very, very deep FA class.
Hey thanks, Xtreem, i was hoping for a favorable resolution to this mess, and it may be happening. Yes, key to me, would to be viable by the next F/A Season.
Just a guess. I don’t know the inner workings of this case. But stands to reason that if all these motions are filed before the case even starts, all that’s left for the case are testimonies that seem to be heavily in favor of the Wilpons. It starts March 19…….what are the odds it takes as long as four months?
LOL why would a good record mean they are playing over their heads?
Is that because god forbid your previous evaluations of how bad this team is would be dead wrong if they managed to have a good record?
And why would a good record be over their heads? Isn’t Sandy doing such a great job making this team better?
ROFLMAO!
The 2012 roster leaves a little to be desired, to put it mildly. Seems obvious.
Who made it?
According to you, Omar. Remember? All those guys the Mets are pinning their hopes on are Omar’s guys?
AHHHHH and because that AWFUL GM Omar made them and thats what we have Sandy should get a pat on the back and a hearty GREAT JOB from the fans!
I suppose when they tank for the next 3 years while we are waiting for Wheeler to be a MLB player all the losses will be the fault of Omar and Sandy will have done a GREAT JOB not replacing all those guys you think suck?
And I want it on record that basically you said our Kids SUCK!
So when you deny it later we are clear your full of it!
*****BOOKMARKED******
Wow. I’ve never seen a bigger case of putting words in someone’s mouth. Despite the many times I prasied Omar’s scouting ability and claimed he left some decent pieces here, you’re going to bookmark that as “proof” all of Omar’s kids suck. Great job. Clearly, you’re a mature adult.
Did yu not say the roster was awful and if they did manage to compete it would be because they played over their heads?
Does that translate to they are GOOD or they are BAD!
Use whatever words you would like to describe that!
You said our Roster was not good and that Omar made it!
How many years is Omar on the hook for Sandy not fixing what you percieve as bad?
Please, I beg you. Find where I said the roster was awful. I dare you. And yes, a team with .500 aspirations competing with teams with 90-95-win aspirations is called “over their heads.”
You can’t have it both ways. It can’t be Omar’s team when they’re good and Sandy’s team when they’re bad, and you’ve played both hands several times. It takes 3-4 years for a good rebuilding plan to take shape. This is how baseball works. This is not a new invention.
jeez all anyone had to do was scroll up!
“The 2012 roster leaves a little to be desired, to put it mildly. Seems obvious”
Is that a good roster or bad roster statement?
I also want it noted that I have not INSULTED you yet you go on and same thing about being an ADULT!
So when it comes around it’s on record of WHO started the insults!
*********BOOKMARKED*********
Yes, please put it on record that I called you out for acting like a child. I take no shame in that and stand 100% behind it.
You opened the Insult dorr didn’t you?
Didn’t need a guy like Bayonne did you?
Alex hasn’t posted here either yet!
But still we have these insults!
But you never start them you little innocent angel do you?
Don’t START nothing, won’t BE nothing!
This is the lesson for today my very young friend!
And I can say that without insulting you because I’m much older than you are!
I wish you’d start acting like it.
i am I haven’t insulted you yet!
Can you say the same?
Who just on the basis of this conversation started the insults?
Who has resorted to twisting what he said to get out of his mistake?
Who thinks not spending 17.5 mil means you had 17.5 mil to pay debt?
And who posted a link claiming we PAID debt that had no such evidence in it at all?
And pray tell how can you spend 50 Mil you didn’t have by not spending 50 Mil you didn’t have in the first place?
No, you’ve never insulted me. I’m the one who called YOU a skirt-wearer, alluded to your Sandy blowup doll and and called Jessep your girlfriend, amongst many others. All me. My bad.
Yep As soon as you start with the crap like calling me out for being childish or CRAZY for not believing you I dish it right back at ya!
But you NEVER START IT….nononononononono NEVER!
Well you did right here slappy!
Want it to stop? hen STOP!
You staryted it today! You start it in MOST cases!
And then feign the little angel or claim the word twist defense like you also tried today!
I been watching that movie for a year!
I know your script by heart now!
Every little game you play!
Metsie, X did not say Omar’s prospects “suck.”
See this is really where the problems REALLY begin in here. When people make definitive statements about what someone else said and then take self righteous umbrage over the offending statement that wasn’t even made in the first place.
If you want to know what X mean’t by something he said just ask him, he’ll tell you but don’t just go and summerize what he said for him using the most inflamatory statement possible which is exactly what you have just done.
tell how YOU translate this? AND WHO put words in whose mouth!
The 2012 roster leaves a little to be desired, to put it mildly. Seems obvious.
Reply
Metsie February 18, 2012 at 3:22 pm .
Who made it?
Reply
XtreemIcon February 18, 2012 at 3:26 pm .
According to you, Omar. Remember? All those guys the Mets are pinning their hopes on are Omar’s guys?
Any questions on who put words in whose mouth in that conversation?
I’m the bad one right? X is just the little halo wearing angel right?
He started the insults!
He did what he and now you accused me of!
yeah guys Always the victims in every instance aren’t you?
This website is not about individual people here it’s supposed to be about the Mets.
You summarized for someone else what they said and you did it in the most inflamotory way possible and prior to that you tried to get blame assigned for the roster which obviously has the effect of starting yet another Omar – Sandy debate.
That’s really productive.
The fact is the roster isn’t ideal. The rotation is very iffy at every spot and we have four first basemen in our starting eight and the Marlins aren’t being as cooperative with filling our holes as they used to be and we couldn’t afford it even if they were.
None of that explains why you said X said something he didn’t say.
What summary did I make?
He said the roster wasn’t very good!
Does that mean he said it was GOOD or BAD?
You tell me!
I see your clearly into defending them!
So be it!
I have all the proof in the posts I need!
He insulted first and put words in MY mouth before and SUMMARIZATION was made!
Check the timelines and when you discover your mistake I expect you to take him to task for what you just tried to blame on me!
Note the post where I summarized before he put words in MY mouth!
If you can’t then I expect you to make your post of apology to ME for saying I started it and your post to him chastizing HIM for starting what you proposed I did!
Gonna do it or have you picked being on the side of the guys who START the crap?
Also note WHO turned the conversation into PERSONAL from a discussion about the Mets!
Go on and show the timeline of who did what first!
Prove your impartial and fair minded!
Or prove your just with them and all the feigning of impartiality by you is nothing more than bull!
I am impartial. I really couldn’t care less to tell you the truth and I’m not going to look at the time line cause again, I just don’t really care enough.
When I stuck my nose into it you had just summarized X’s words from something to the effect of “we could have a better roster” to Omar’s kids suck. totally different meaning.
It was also you who asked who’s to blame for that roster which is how it all gets started.
Did X say something too? Maybe but I just don’t fell like trying to figure out “who tyhe bad guy is” or “who started it” all that **** is just so infantile.
It would really be nice just discussing baseball around here and even you don’t believe that your as pure as the driven snow either.
Bottom line even if he did start something it’s no reason to summarize his words in a way that is sure to provoke yet another I didn’t say that – yes you did around here and no reason to start getting into Omar vs Sandy on a thread about Picard.
It was also you who asked who’s to blame for that roster which is how it all gets started.
Started what the Name calling or the putting words in someone’s mouth?
Please quote the phrase where I summarized his post!
He said the team was only going to be competitive if they play over their heads!
I asked why is competition labeled that way?
Why isn’t performance just PERFORMANCE?
Then ASKED if it was because he previously said this team was not good!!
Didn’t put words in his mouth I asked him for explanation!
“Maybe but I just don’t fell like trying to figure out “who tyhe bad guy is” or “who started it” all that **** is just so infantile.”
Ah so saying something, Blaming someone isn’t INFANTILE when X is the one that starts it just everyone else!
And you wonder why the insults fly?
I wonder if Bayonne was JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME for starting the insults as you claimed being so ON THE MARK with blaming me here!
I sense you have picked sides and just feign impartiality!
I await the quote where I Summarized his opinion as a statement not as a question he could have easily answered NO, But chose instead to INSULT and put words in MY mouth and you didn’t think it worth noting until I returned fire!
Yep! This is why we have the insults and nasty behavior here!
Bayonne hasn’t been here all day and I made no insults but yet they STILL FLEW didn’t they Tag?
What or lets say WHO was the common denominator HUH?
You said something to the effect of “so basically it’s because Omar’s kids suck” when all he said was something like “the roster not all that great.”
And again I am impartial. I really don’t even care that much but since your making such a big deal about who is doing what and to whom I just chimmed in to show you that you were doing the exact same thing and I’ve never aligned myself with anyone here like you have with bayonne, even going so far as to defend him of all people and even to the extent of tying to stir **** up while he’s gone to “prove” it’s not him that causes all the hostility here.
Very very impartial of you Metsie. Well done.
I’ve had plenty of civil and even friendly exchanges with both you and X as well as a few blowouts so I really have no dog in this hunt and siding with one person on an issue doesn’t signify partiality either unless your going to pull a typical bayonne stunt and claim that if I’m not 100% on your side I’m 100% against you. I assume your not of the belief that you are always right are you?
Tell you the truth you might be one of the most impartial
Oh cut the bull Tag!
POST THE EXACT QUOTE!
If you can’t then obviously it’s all bullshit including the impartiality!
That’s not fanciful at all Bob, I think it’s a real possibility.
AS IT STANDS TODAY, I PREFER NYM ODDS Vs PICARD OVER NL EAST FOR 2012.
Don’t know if you know this, but for the last 3 months you (not the other writers) have been writing more about this than actual Mets baseball. Take a break already. You have always been one of my favorite Mets bloggers but all you do now is talk about this stupid lawsuit and I dont think anybody really cares about it. Go back to doing what you always did best and stick to the field instead of off the field. Not trying to offend you I just wish you would give this a rest already.
Its the dead of winter (so no one is playing baseball right now) and this is casting a shadow over everything the Mets do. It is a major story.
The business of baseball drives the game of baseball in the major leagues. Keep your ammo dry until the last couple of weeks of spring training. Then you may have a case.
I know I post a lot on this financial mess, Hodges. But I feel compelled to write something whenever I see news about this being spun against Wilpon. If there was some balance out there I’d stay clear, but too many sites are pushing their agendas and only parts of the story are being told. I’ll try to amp up my baseball thoughts now that spring training is here.
You may post about it alot but not with any more frequency than any other place does, and you have at least been fair about the whole thing.
Can’t really say that for the rest!
People’s hatred of the Wilpons was so blinding that were actually hoping Picard would win and that Wilpon was guilty!
I wonder if they ever found themselves on trial if they would be happy with the same treatment?
Hey, Joe, should the trial go full bore, what are the odds it will be resolved one or another by this time next year?
This trial will definitely be resolved at some point this year before the All Star break.
But you can bet on an appeal from Picard and I’m not sure how long that will drag out. Assuming the appellate court sees enough reason to grant an appeal or overturn Rakoff.
Picard will have to show proof Rakoff circumvented the law or kept out evidence that should have been admissible. That might be a difficult mountain to climb especially with no smoking gun.
U.S. District Court Judge Jed Rakoff is a hero for not putting up with the PickPocket Picard redistribution scheme. Picard has to win the case in a court of law employing legal reasoning. He can’t. He never could. He built his case originally in the newspapers.
When you consider what the fallout of this Ponzi scheme did to the Wilpons and the Mets, why havent they been looked at as victims just like all the other investors? The profits they thought they had vanished. $350 million one day, and all gone the next. Plus Picard wanted them to fork over a billion dollars for punitive damages? Based on what? I feel bad for the Mets because they were not victimized once, but twice counting Picard.
makes sense. I think a lot of it was the piling on effect that fit in with the anti-met bias.
Did ESPN have a hand in this Mets’ bashing? lol
Picard tried to take not only the interest he also tried to get their original investment!
Only way that could have worked is if they were part of the Ponzi Scheme!
Something no one could ever prove unless Madoff testified against them!
And even then it would just be his word against theirs!
lol imagine a lawyer for either side calling Madoff as their star witness? Not a lot of credibility there I think.
Yeah that ship sailed long ago…If Madoff had turned states evidence at the very start he could have said anything and enough to sway a jury.
But even HE has gone on record saying they were not in on it!
I’m pretty sure this is about how different accounts were treated.
Say you had one and it was a net loser. Your first in line.
Say you had one and it was a net winner, You fork over the extra.
In the Wilpon’s case having something like 150 different accounts some of which were winners and some of which were losers, Picard wpuldn’t subtract out the amount lost by the losers until after the excess of the winners had been handed over and then, since not all will be recouped, put those net losers on the back of the line where there will be no money left over to compensate the losing accounts.
Anything short of a tape recording of Saul and Fred saying “Sure it’s a ponzi scheme? Who cares we just keep putting big money in short and pull it out quicky and by the time they catch on we will have pulled out more than we have in and come out ahead”
And Picard will have no shot at proving anything he is claiming!
Fred said from day one he will have his day in court and will be vindicated – or something similar. Sounds like he and his lawyer team have been systematically working towards this. I’d be more than happy if this just got thrown out all together…
If this does go to trial, it’s a trial by jury – do I have that correct?
IDK…..anything can happen with a jury.
No jury, just Judge Rakoff decides. I wish it would get thrown out too, but it won’t. Rakoff’s decision might take longer than the trial which should last no more than 4-5 weeks tops.
I’m glad that only Judge Rakoff decides. The more than likely it will be a legally sound decision, not some political B.S. that is all too familiar in this election year. My hunch is that PickPocket Irving is given a nominal, non-confiscatory award. That will shut him up and make an appeal more difficult.
This would be great news for the Wilpons, Mets and fans. Not so good for a “reporters” book sales though. Too bad
I wouldn’t go so far to say GREAT news…Good perhaps…They still have that attendance issue to deal with and if it goes down they will still be on the hook for another 40-50 mil even with all these supposed savings when all is said and done!
what winning would do is free up some personal income to invest in a fan drawing splash for a player that could bring some fans back
I have always said the case against them was weak. Got the same crap you did!
But the problem is too many kids around here have no idea what investing is all about to them it’s a game only the rich play!
I worry for thier future retirement if thats what they think! lol
Wow, I must have missed those discussions. About 90% of the posters at TRDM all agreed that the case against the Wilpons was weak and all they were guilty of was trusting the wrong people.
This.
But I can attest to many fans over at metsblog and mets.com wishing the Wilpons would get run out of town on a rail. Probably the same type of fans that keep calling the Wilpons ‘cheap’.
We all know as owners they were anything but cheap. Ill advised on how the money was spent but certainly not cheap.
Well thats really the problem with all the Wilpon pointing Srt….
They blame them for spending too much money and then call them cheap when they stop!
How can you win with that?
Hard for me to take any self proclaimed Met fan seriously who use tag names like ‘Coupons or accuse the Wilpons of being cheap.
If they’re a casual Met fan who doesn’t really know the facts since the Wilpons have had sole ownership, that’s fine. But IMO don’t show their lack of knowledge by ranting about the Wilpons as cheap when they’ve really been anything but.
I said months ago that the Wilpons could come out on top and got laughed at by followers of a so called author. Thanks Joe for pointing this out too.
Joe, you remind me of one of the main characters in All the Presidents Men. They had some guy code named deep throat feeding them all this confidential stuff. I remember back in November you kept teasing that something major was going to happen right after the holidays, and the day after New Years the CRG story came out on Amazing Avenue. Then a while back you kept saying the loans that were due or something in 2013 or 2014 were adjustable and didnt have to be paid on the deadline, and last week that’s exactly what the New York Times and Adam Rubin said. So now I guess I’ll take your word for it about this counter suit or whatever and that they may even make money. It sounds insane to me, but whatever. You definitely have a little bird chirping your ear or something because I don’t believe in telepathic powers or ESP!!!