There is no denying his fielding sucked last year.
His bat wasn’t much better it was an all around bad year for him.

But I agree with you it was an issue of the head and those can be easily corrected!

He’s gone, Spilt milk just hope we don’t live to regret it later on…
50/50 we will or not.

Four or Five?

The reality is he was sacrificed rightly or wrongly in order to stop bleeding games away in the 8th or 9th. Whether that will work out or not is a legitimate question but that was the intent behind the trade and was made necessary because once again, as always we have no one that we developed to slip into the pen other than Parnell (and Joe Smith who went in the Putz deal)

Holt’s not getting anyone out in AA how can you expect him to get anyone out in the bigs? Misch isn’t even with the Mets anymore and you just can’t devote spots on the 40 man roster to guys like him and Pridie in the hopes that they have an ephiney at age 29 or so because then you cannot protect your slower developing prospects.

We already lost a guy in this years rule 5 draft named Rhyner Cruz who throws 100 MPH, not that that’s everything and while there is no guarantee that prospects we did shield from the rule 5 like Armando Rodriguez, Wilmer Flores and Juan Lagares may not ever do anything the reality is that IF they do something up here it is almost a certainity that it will be much more than what Misch, Pridie or Evans would have given us this year and if anything Evans and Pridie should have been given a shot to platoon in LF instead of signing Bay if you just wanted to give them a shot.

We did spend a supplemental round pick, two 2nd round picks and two 3rd round picks on college relief pitchers in 2006 and 2007 (Smith, Kunz, Rustich, Nissen, Clyne) instead of drafting for LF, CF, RF and C and if any of them had come through we wouldn’t have had to get worse at CF this year for a set up man plus we lost a decent RH relief pitcher in Smith along with another reliever, back up CFer, back up 1B/LF and Endy in the trade for a set up man in (Putz) 2009.

Roster management is a tricky part of a GM’s job and sometimes you can’t keep everyone who could possibly help this year because the job requires taking into consideration subsequent years as well. If there had been more emphasis placed on subsequent years before we would have a decent situation at catcher between Thole and Flores. Darren O’Day and Smith in the bull pen and perhaps not had to go outside for relievers.

Carrasco got 2.5 over 2 years, Taka got 8 M over the same. How does that translate to Carrasco getting more?

All these things are interrelated and I for one (probably the only one) liked Pagan, a lot. I think he’s going to have a good season and I hope he does. Torres I’m not very sure about and I don’t know that Alderson et al are either. The two big questions about Kirk were whether he could defend CF and whether his LH power would play elsewhere if he couldn’t. That was the largest part of the decision to bring in the fences. Kirk is the only player/prospect who benefits both offensively and even more so defensively from making the yard smaller. On offense Duda and Davis didn’t have any “just enoughs” or lose a lot on the warning track. Wright might be helped for as long as he’s here offensively a little and Bay had as many HR’s at Citi as he did on the road and he won’t be here more than two years anyway and he’s soon to be platooned or have his time cut into anyway so it’s not like anyone’s counting on Torres for 3-4 years. In addition we have Den Dekker (a Pridie clone) for backup CF in a year and Puello 2-3 years down the road if things break well.

We really cannot continue to lose solutions going forward to fix defficiencies on the 25 this year, every year or we’ll never have a fully complete 25 man roster with depth.

Since 1998 we’ve been forking over solutions left and right (Izzy, Mora, Everett, Cruz, Bay, Burnett, Dotel, Dan Wheeler, Bell, Vargas, Flores, Smith, O’Day, and stripping ourselves of draft picks on top of it. This is more or less the price that’s paid for looking only at this year, every year.

I’m not happy about it. I thought Reyes was reasonably priced. I don’t think we made a full scale effort but i also don’t think he would necessarily have signed for the same over here either. The writings on the wall, this team doesn’t have the resources or the prospects likely to make a huge difference in the next two years and Reyes would have known that if he signed, Wright would defintely be gone soon afterward and while that imo would have been the way to go it still would have left us shorthanded offensively. He’s not stupid. Thole, Davis, Tejada, Reyes, Murphy, Bay, Pagan/Torres/ Duda is an everyday lineup of more guys that have holes in parts of their game than not plus the ace is a huge question mark and everyone after him (other than 37 year old Dickey) too. The pen and bench as well and again no money for real upgrades elsewhere plus the owner’s comments about him certainly depressed his value and after being such a bargain for his first 8 1/2 years has every right to feel he deserved better. The medical staff’s diagnosis and FO office pressure to come back before he was ready. Hey where’s the loyalty?

Sandy Saves!
Salty LOVES HIM!

a fact YOU tried to run away from when I CORRECTLY identified you as a Cheerleader the first time we had a discussion!

So whose really RUNNING AWAY here Slappy?
And from whose own statements is he running away from?

You are the one who exposed himself after whining and whining about being called a Sandy Cheerleader and then posting at least on 4 occasions that Sandy Saves!

The only one you have made look foolish since you got here is YOU!

Hope you enjoy the cute little bunny:

( ) ( )
(* .*)
(”__”)

Just about the only meaningful thing you have ever said was Sandy Saves!

And it was meaningful because it basically told everyone how full of shit you are when you say your not a Cheerleader!

Sandy Saves you know!
ROFLMAO!

And he criticizes posters who actually have something to say!

Something you have showed time and time again you are incapable of having!

It’s funny how saltyballs and any (or was it srt, i don’t know i confuse the two cuz they both post the same things – anyway it’s funny how they remarked how long Metsie’s post is but yet we all know who the guy here is creates more than one manifiesto on a daily basis but they say nothing about that.

It all depends on what side your on.

He walks on Water!
He heals the Sick!
He can do no Wrong!
Blah Blah Blah!

I do however find it absoloutly rediculous to get worse in a Regular position in the name of getting a SET UP MAN! Closer maybe but a Set up man?
And I know the following is not about anything you have said recently but it does seem to be right in line with that statement which I will take as merely flippant (from you) but is central to a lot of guys around here justification for the team dismantling!

We had to get worse at CF to fix the Pen!
We had to get worse at SS to have the money to fix the Pen!
We HAD to trade our All Star closer to be able to afford free agents which were all Kmart type relievers signed this year!
All this in the name of Fantasy of being competitive this year!

Pitching does win championships but that doesn’t extend to Relief Pitching!
Was the issue with our competitivness last season the relievers or the Starters?
Was it the Relievers who were so god awful or was it the fact our starters would barely make it past the 5th and 6th inning meaning overuse of a mediocre pen and then trading away the only consistently good pitcher in that pen for table scraps the problem there?

I fully understand there are a lot of possible CF future stars in our MiLs that it would be unwise to rush up to fill in this year. And whatever happens at CF this year is going to change maybe even as soon as this year!

But I have REAL ISSUES with replacing regular position players for weaker candidates in the name of making some part time (one or two innings every two days) reliever position stronger. Especially after we completly tore apart and rebuilt that Pen last offseason! And the Pen we hated is basically the construct of the guy who is now replacing them!!!!

We did it then in the name of CHEAP but then went and got a guy like Carrasco who got paid MORE and did LESS than Takahashi!

The only winning move regarding the Pen last year was Feliciano getting hurt making Sandy appear pretty smart.

Pagan was no great shakes with the glove last year but that is hardly his norm. Remember how well he did taking over for Beltran in 2010 and it is clear his bat was taken to the field with him not that he got worse as a fielder! It was a focus issue and that can be fixed! And as bad as we (and he) think Pagan was with the Bat he still hit .260, not .290 but not all that far off considering missed time and being thriown into a leadoff position he wasn’t comfortable with.

I just don’t get why so many people are so tunnelvisioned on the Pen and willing to dismantle the guys who play 9 in favor of the guys who pitch one a game!

And if Kids are as important as you say then you should not give up on them until such time as you are FORCED to pay them more than league minimum especially when they can be better than the guy you intend to play instead!

If Pridie has an epiphany and shines at his new location will we have to hear about this 20 years from now?
If we are determined to go with a youth movement then lets stop sending them and the all stars packing to get guys who are old and short term bandaids!

Lets take guys like Holt and Misch and all those other guys not named Harvey, Familia and Wheeler and put them in the pen!
If they fail at least they were cheap, if they succeed at least they are yours for the long term and if they are merely mediocre they at least are good trade pieces to someone else who delusionally thinks relief pitching is more important than regular position players!

I have no problems getting slightly worse in order to get far better someplace else.
I don’t think we got that with the Pagan trade and definitly did not with the Reyes fiasco!
The Pagan trade on it’s own is not the problem it’s the fact that the lesser CF is our only option at CF at this point!
And we had TWO guys who would be much better much cheaper with a ton more upside than what we got but we waived them!
If Ramirez was a Closer of any substance maybe I would feel different, But he isn’t he is a set up man which to me is just another specialized temp whose roster spot would be better served by having someone who can play more than one inning per game!

Basically we had to get worse at CF in the short term in order to obtain a set up man and Torres will get us to Niuwenhauss with Den Dekker in reserve and hopefully Puello a candidate somewhere between 2013.

Upgrades if necessary will be based upon how things go with those three between now and then.

That would have been a better choice but Pridie would still be out here as soon as Kirk is back to his June 2011 production in AAA,