MMO Hits & Misses: Underdog, Fred Speaks, Site News, Rooting For Team To Lose

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• Laurence Smith February 28, 2012 at 1:24 pm

  I count myself among those who want to see the Mets succeed in the long run. I don’t believe this can happen under Wilpon ownership. The fans who agree with this should avoid putting dollars into ownership. One needn’t wish for the team to lose but going to games and buying mercandise will only continue to prop up the Wilpons.
  • Joe D February 28, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Not going to games or buying merchandise is different, and while I disagree I respect Mets fans decisions to proceed in that manner. I have some Met fans in my own circle of friends who feel as you do. But that number Newsday cited of 25% of us rooting for the team to lose. I can’t buy into that.
    • Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 1:35 pm

      Joe D, maybe the real question should be, how many fans THINK this team will lose more than 90 games.. i think that 25% will rise to like 75%, as optimistic as one can be, it’s hard to see this team winning, therefore many fans want no part of it… It’s hard though, i’ve been a fan longer than most of the sabermetrics on this site and have watched them in 2 World series, celebrating one while not being 4 years old, but the truth is, If it wasn’t for some of the players on the team the number on people who’d want the team to lose in spite of the wilpons will be way higher!
      • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 1:49 pm

        Ah the classic, first we group everyone into either pro or anti-sandy now it’s pro or anti saber. Lets make a list Alex,

        Who on this site that post more than 2 comments a day are “pro-rah rah Sandy is god” supporters? Who bashes every move he makes as bad.

        OK now,
        Who on this site post more than 2 comments a day on how sabermetrics are the only stats one should use and any other stats suck? Who bashes every stat other than BA, HR and RBI?

        Now once you have done that we can have a classic battle. Unfortunately you would find yourself fighting no one.
        • Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 2:15 pm

          Exactly what i said yesterday, you TRY to make EVERYTHING into a debate yet wonder why others do the same… Don’t go back to your TRJ days ok.. thought by now you left those behind…
      • Ian February 28, 2012 at 4:32 pm

        Woah woah woah, so because you are older then some of the people that read this blog makes you superior to us?
• Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 1:28 pm

  Joe D, good piece on the shirts… this is a pathetic and begging for mercy display.. the ST season hasn’t even begun and the owner are pulling this??? it’s PATHETIC…
• Rich from Lake Como February 28, 2012 at 1:44 pm

  Who died and left you as the ultimate judge of what a Mets fan should be ticked off about? Trust me when I say there are many, many reasons to despise the Wilpons for turning the Mets into the St. Louis Browns. Every one of them are their own fault. They have made it about being a business. I can do likewise. I hope the place is ghost town by June.
  • Joe D February 28, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    You must have me confused with someone else, I don’t judge, I simply post my opinions. Can you share 5 specific things you blame ownership for that had nothing to do with what any of their GM’s did? Did you have an adequate replacement in mind and what makes you believe he will spend as lavishly as Wilpon has after forking over a billion+ dollars to buy a team?
• LongTimeFan February 28, 2012 at 1:48 pm

  Personally, I think there’s a subset of Mets fans who are the worst in the game, sour it for the many Mets fans who can actually cope with adversity, not revert to teenager in temper tandrum with the sort of spiteful, disgusting animus spewed toward ownership that includes distorting the most benign of situations as anti-Wilpon. Someone in the dugout farts and it’s the Wilpons’ fault for not including Beano with the buffet.

  There truly is a subset of so-called Mets fans who have such hate in their hearts and are so vested in their selfish interests to actually want the Mets to lose. These people need to look in the mirror and confront the ugliness looking back rather than deflecting it outward as people are apt to do when they are overly vested in something external that sustains them in their daily lives.
  • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Nice post. Uh where did my post go?
  • srt February 28, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    This.

    But I’m willing to be all other 29 teams have their fair share of these type fans.
    • LongTimeFan February 28, 2012 at 2:24 pm

      Not like this. Is Wrigley lacking in fans having not won since 1908? Were the Red Sox during generations of dry spell? No. There are Mets fans with animus fueled by Yankees success and the embarrassment felt. The rage, the hate, is out of sync with the reality and gravity of what is, in its essence, sports and entertainment, not life and death unless one’s self worth and happiness is overly connected to what happens to one’s team, such that every disappointment is elevated to tragedy status and loss of honor.

      Now I’m not claiming that I don’t feel the sting of loss. I’ve been a Mets fans for over 4 decades and have been very disappointed over outcomes. But there comes a time where people need to look in the mirror and stop blaming the external for the voids they feel.
      • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 2:30 pm

        I think blogs and today’s media outlets actually give the appearance of more hate when in reality most Mets fans are right in the middle of the extremes you see on blogs.
      • kingman 26 February 28, 2012 at 5:04 pm

        Nah, the folks you mention are literally like a fraction of 1% of the fan base. A guy like Bayonne? He’s like .001% of the fan base and meaningless other than his diatribes here which are read by a few dozen people maybe.

        Fans who come to sites like this are a minority, and fans who read comment sections are a much smaller minority, and as Matt Cerrone has said, the people who actually log in and make comments are an even tinier minority.

        You sir, are here, at Metsblog, and at the Ledger, where many, many maladjusted fans with zero sense of perspective or real baseball knowledge visit to vent their lack of self esteem in the form of Met rants.

        Seriously—the fans you refer to definitely exist, but I would guess they amount to a truly microscopic fraction of the overall fan base. As we are in New York, this does translate to there being more of them than any other team has.

        But still, they really are, as the cliche goes, sound and fury signifying nothing.
• Markcomic1 February 28, 2012 at 1:54 pm

  The T Shirts are horrible and tacky.
  Congrats on Fox and on being ranked 21st on the top 100 Baseball sites. Great work Joe.
  I find the Mets executive sense of humor is kind of entertaining yet as a fan a little condescending. Win some meaningful baseball games, then crack jokes and wear goofy t-shirts.
  Fred stance on not signing Reyes and how it was simply a baseball decision makes a lot of sense. Loved Reyes, he is a great talent but, only when he is healthy. He also sometimes sulks and doesn’t fully run out balls he put in play. Reyes is an above average player but, I still do not see him as a great player and he was looking to be over paid. 100 plus million and questionable hammys on a guy that makes a living with his legs! Thats just a bad investment and I think Fred and the crew are probably leery right now of making any kind of bad investments. Especially a $100 million dollars one.

  Is Tejada the answer for the long haul? Who knows? I don’t think he is a long term answer but, he will suffice. Honestly, Tejada doesn’t have to be great, just serviceable. The 86 Mets had a serviceable shortstop in Raphael Santana. Lets face it, the guy never weighed over 140 pounds and hit just barely 100 points over his weight for his career. He did play solid to good defense though. If Tejada can save the teams some runs with solid defense and hit 250., he will suffice.

  I have been wanting to mention Reese Havens. Why? Because I think he will (hoping is a better term) surprise the Mets this spring. Personally, I love Murphs desire but, he is a DH playing second base. I also think if he stays in the field, he will continue to just get hurt. Murph is a solid to above average hitter but, just does not have the athletic ability to play any position on the field very well. I am hoping Havens comes in and hits the cover off the ball all spring and that his defense is solid to great, forcing the Mets to trade Murphy to an American league in need of a solid DH (BALTIMORE anyone?) for a catcher or a young pitcher with some upside.

  Thanks for giving Mets fans a place to express themselves and stay informed.
• srt February 28, 2012 at 1:56 pm

  ‘If you say it was a baseball decision than any resentment you have should be levied on Sandy Alderson.’

  >> Understand.

  ‘If you say it was Fred Wilpon’s decision, than stop defending Alderson on the topic of whether or not he ever made an offer or a fair attempt to resign Reyes. It’s either one or the other.’

  >> Don’t understand this statement above.
  If one believes it was a Fred decision (I’m assuming on the premise of $$?), then wouldn’t that lend itself to even more of a defense for SA – as in ‘it’s not his fault’.?

  Maybe it’s the way it’s worded or my level of caffeine has bottomed out this afternoon but I don’t understand the point being made in the second sentence.
• Markcomic1 February 28, 2012 at 2:01 pm

  I think I left some info out. Freds stance was that it was a baseball decision meaning Sandy and his staff. I am suffering from being over caffeinated today so I amy have skipped a bit. Personally, I think the Mets made the right decision in letting Reyes go.

  Yeah, he may come back and haunt them from time to time but, I think the scariest thing about the Marlins, are their uniforms and tacky Miami Vice themed stadium..Holy Hell! It’s like the Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey circus of stadiums!
• Petey Pete February 28, 2012 at 2:02 pm

  I want the Wilpons out. And quite frankly I couldn’t care less what it takes, as long as it happens. As long as they continue to own the team, the franchise will be an embarrassment to us as fans, and the baseball as well as all other decisions made by the team, will continue to be the wrong ones. I won’t be going out of my way to give them my money anymore.
  • stick February 28, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    just curious, but assuming they sell to a conglomarate group (like what seem to be able to addord expensive teams now!), why do you expect that to be any better? there will be no fan in charge happening then. it will be all about the bottom line, no sentimentatlity, etc.

    honestly, sometimes the devil you don’t know is worse.

    And I think that many fans have this romantic ideal that some super rich mega fan is going to come riding in, and spend money hand over fist on every big time player that comes along, blowing the yankees right out of the water payroll wise. And odds are, it ain’t going to happen.
    • t agee February 28, 2012 at 2:29 pm

      That’s a good point Stick. The Braves have been owned by Liberty Media for 5 years now and their budget has stayed at 90 M every year, the same place it was when they bought them. In essence their payroll has gone down as other have gone up.

      We could also wind up with two guys that hate each other and have a total paralysis of the team like the NY Giants did in the 70′s.

      We can’t really have any real effect on the ownership situation anyway and for all anyone knows we’d wind up with a Lorinda de Roulet or an incompetent ignoramus in it just for the spot light. That would make this team truly unwatchable.

      As long as the Wilpon’s have been 100% owners they’ve been good at spending and what we’re experiencing right now is just the result of spending it so poorly.

      They’ve never had a basic 5 or 10 year baseball plan, they’ve just hatched it off the cuff every season with guys they hired that they already had relationships with. This new FO actually has a plan and once it starts to bear fruit the wallet will come back out but it won’t have to be used for every position, only a few and that will keep things running rather than running into a rock every 3 years.
• LongTimeFan February 28, 2012 at 2:03 pm

  Those who opt to boycott when things are bad, have no business returning when the Mets become championship caliber under the Wilpons which they will. These boycotters, professing honor, will prove their utter lack of integrity when they return during easy times. Mark my word they will return proving a lack of backbone that is easy to detect right now.
• stick February 28, 2012 at 2:03 pm

  why can’t the reyes decision be both? Sandy making a BB decision, with a big factor being the budget he was handed by Fred?

  in effect, fred did not have to say No, if he didn’t give enough of a payroll to add Reyes too (in his opinion, of course).

  and a general comment, a GM has to look multiple years down the line. it is nto always about this season only, and BB decisions get made looking some # of years into the future too.

  and on top of that, every move has an opportunity cost. Spend money in one place, and you won’t be spending it elsewhere (even if that buying opportunity might come 1-2 years down the line).

  anyway, i still don’t think that not spending now means the FO goal is to never spend (moneyballin!). Why not believe what they said all along, that they will add players when it makes sense (which I interpret to mean build the young foundation first, then add FAs that are the missing links.
  • Markcomic1 February 28, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    That makes the most sense. Thats how the Yankees did it in the 90′s. They brought up a young core of solid to great players (Jorge, Jeter, Mariano, Pettite,) Then added some quality free agnest and made some solid trades.
  • srt February 28, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    ‘why can’t the reyes decision be both? Sandy making a BB decision, with a big factor being the budget he was handed by Fred?’

    This is the smartest point I’ve seen yet on this. And probably closest to the truth.

    If revenues were way up – team didn’t have money problems – I can’t help but think they would have taken the chance on Reyes’ hammies and offered him a contract more in range with what he had in mind. Not saying we would have been the winners on this sweepstakes when all was said and done but can’t help but wonder about it.
    • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 2:16 pm

      I am not so sure. I think if revenues had been up he most likely would have never reached FA and would have signed a more Mets friendly contract back in 2010. However, once he hit FA and the Marlins were going 6/100 I don’t think Sandy would ever match that even with money.
      • srt February 28, 2012 at 2:18 pm

        ‘think if revenues had been up he most likely would have never reached FA and would have signed a more Mets friendly contract back in 2010. ‘

        Agree. Stick and I were calling for that all along. When it didn’t happen, kind of saw the handwriting on the wall.
        • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 2:24 pm

          But honestly who could blame them? At that point Reyes was coming off 1 lost season and one practically lost season.
          • srt February 28, 2012 at 2:51 pm

            Yeah, yeah, I know…..understand the reasoning behind the decision.
            Just knew he’d be gone though if they didn’t get that done before the season started.
          • t agee February 28, 2012 at 2:52 pm

            In the off season before ST in 2010 Reyes was running great. He was an absolute beast where he trained in LI. Hamstring hadn’t been tested in game conditions or the baseball grind but it was healed. 100%. Any questions about the surgery could have been allayed with an MRI.

            Then he had the thyroid thing but assuming that wasn’t considered a long term threat that would have been the time to discuss a deal and get one done. By August it was too late. Minaya was on his way out and the well was running dry. Pennies had to be pinched and now here we are.

            Marlins taking our guys. Unbelievable.
            • srt February 28, 2012 at 3:00 pm

              I’m willing to bet if they had discussed a deal at that time and got it done, it wouldn’t have cost any 100 MIL + for 6 years.

              Of course there is no way of knowing if Reyes would have been open to resigning then either. As much as he kept talking about being excited going through FA for the first time, he might have taken a pass at any offer during that off season as well.
  • Joe D February 28, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Why not believe what they said all along, that they will add players when it makes sense (which I interpret to mean build the young foundation first, then add FAs that are the missing links.

    That is exactly what Fred Wilpon said. He said we have always spent and our record shows that. When the timing is right and Alderson decides he wants one or two big splashes we’ll spend again, the decision is his. Right now Alderson has a plan and paying Jose Reyes over $100 million guaranteed was not part of his plan.
    • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 2:25 pm

      Yup, we don’t have to like the plan. It’s ok but there are at least two sides and one includes not resigning Reyes no matter how popular and fantastic he was.
      • LongTimeFan February 28, 2012 at 2:40 pm

        It’s just a very short-sighted move when the player let go is on Hall-of-Fame pace and still would be only 30, 31 when the Mets become big force. 3,000 hits, 600 steals has happened 5 times in MLB history and Reyes is well on that pace. It’s not just losing a player, it’s losing an historic talent just coming into his own, not so much as making an honest offer to retain him.
        • trs86 February 28, 2012 at 3:51 pm

          I am sorry I just can’t say that Reyes is currently on a HOF pace. He’s a great player but I don’t see him as a HOF or even on that pace. Neither is Wright.

          Larkin was a question among some and finished: .295 .371 .444 .815
          2340 hits, 198 HR, 960 RBI, 379 SB, 1329 runs

          Reyes would need to double his hits, runs, HR, RBI, and would still not have as impressive of numbers. Obviously Larkin also played until age 40 but because his game was not built on just speed actually had some of his best years in his early to mid-30′s. Could Reyes do that? Sure but he would need to in order to be on a HOF pace IMO.
        • Donal February 28, 2012 at 4:27 pm

          “It’s just a very short-sighted move when the player let go is on Hall-of-Fame pace ”

          Hey, don’t change the subject. We’re talking about Reyes.

          “3,000 hits, 600 steals has happened 5 times in MLB history and Reyes is well on that pace.”

          No, he isn’t.

          The reality is locking into Reyes for 6 years and $120 million would not have been wise for the long or short term.
    • Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 2:27 pm

      Joe D, you realize that if that were the case then we’d be bitching and moaning about overspending for free agents because they don’t wanna play here? kinda like what washington did with jayson werth…
    • LongTimeFan February 28, 2012 at 2:34 pm

      The Reyes situation conflicted with the small market mindset that Alderson brought with him to New York which, by his own admission, includes strong reluctance to offer late 20′s players more than a 3 or 4 year deal. He didn’t even make Reyes a formal offer purely of his own doing, just easier to pass off as the Wilpons’ by the Wilpon-hating crowd. The situation also gives cover to Alderson whether he sought it or not.
      • Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 2:38 pm

        Longtime, Like a snake he tried to blame the reyes situation on EVERYTHING else BUT HIM, by admitting as soon as reyes sign the mets lost $70 million… why wasn’t this said before??? then the box of chocolate comment, the man is a small market GM, who was brought here to slash payroll and somehow put a team on the field, that might’ve worked in Oakland because NOBODY cares, but here in NY things are put to the test rather quickly… only his saber fans are not seeing this guy for the fraud he is… franchise players my as*
        • LongTimeFan February 28, 2012 at 2:49 pm

          I haven’t liked Alderson within a week of his hiring. He might eventually build a winner, but his disconnect to the relationships that bind fans to players, and players to fans as people, rather than commodities, turns my stomach. So too his circumvention of nearly every question asked. He tops my list of those who utter words aplenty but basically say nothing with the exception of two days ago when he actually provided straight-forward answers.
          • t agee February 28, 2012 at 3:02 pm

            Tell you the truth He probably will be better about those things than anyone we’ve had here since the early 70′s.

            I really wouldn’t be expecting too many Bonilla, Saberhagan, Coleman, Alomar, Vaughn, Burnitz, Zeile, Alou, Bay, and Schowenweiss types brought in here as this organization has specialized in over the last 20 years.
      • Donal February 28, 2012 at 5:13 pm

        “The Reyes situation conflicted with the small market mindset that Alderson brought with him to New York which, by his own admission, includes strong reluctance to offer late 20′s players more than a 3 or 4 year deal.”

        When he ran the A’s, they were frequently one the top payrolls in the league. The payroll here was getting cut. With or without Alderson.Selig sent Alderson here to cut payroll and help fix the finances while developing new talent. Hopefully, by the time the young guns are ready to produce, there Wilpons’ financial issues will be resolved one way or the other and there will be money not only to retain the young guns, but to add to them as well.

        Also, high payroll does not automatically translate into success. Mets fans and Cubs fans should be well acquainted with that idea. If the team is not built with a solid foundation, it doesn’t matter how many free agents you buy or for how long.

        Long term contracts rarely, if ever work out. And usually, the few that do work out are just for teams in win now mode at the time of signing. If you go look at all the 5+ year deals that were signed between 2000 and 2008, how many actually worked out for more than half the length of the deal?
• Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 2:31 pm

  RYAN BRAUN, SUCK ON THIS, ADMIT YOU CHEATED AND GOT AWAY WITH MURDER YOU LIAR:

  http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/35020024?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001
  • Mr North Jersey February 28, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Good read thanks for posting this Alex.
  • Joe D February 28, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Wow, now that’s interesting.
  • Alex68 February 28, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    You Welcome guys, the CORE always glad to help out and provide facts.. he’s a liar, a cheater, and of course, after being asked about it, he declined to comment of offer any more talks about his usage of PED, this is clemens 2.0, had he shut the **** up when this was blown over this wouldn’t have happened… now, this will follow him around, who do you believe now SB?
  • srt February 28, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    This just begs the question of…..if the official collector followed standard protocol, why did the 3rd party arbitrator rule in favor of Braun’s appeal?

    Is it because – even though procedures were followed – there still could have been some slight chance of tampering?
    Jeeze, if that was the case, sending them FedEx at all could come into question.
  • stick February 28, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    good stuff. glad to see him fighting back after getting slandered. Or libeled. Whichever one he got!

    you are right though that Braun should have gone into hiding, and not pushed his luck like this.

    my HO of course was that he got caught, and snaked out of the punishment, but he was far from “innocent”
• FP Mets February 28, 2012 at 2:51 pm

  I’m pretty sure Thor can fly.
  • Mr North Jersey February 28, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Not really at least not without his hammer.