11
2012
MMO Fair Or Foul: Was F-Mart The LH Bat We Needed?
An article by 
Soon after the Nationals snatched up left-handed hitting outfielder Rick Ankiel, the Mets pulled the plug on their quest to land a left-handed bat for the team.
Ankiel had been high on their list and some reports even circulated that Sandy Alderson may have offered the one-time pitching phenom a minor league deal. Anyway, that was then and this now, and it’s looking more and more that either Mike Baxter (.213 MLB, .277 minors) or Adam Loewen (.176 MLB, .267 minors) will be the Mets 5th outfielder.
It certainly gives one pause to think about Fernando Martinez one last time…
I can’t deny that Martinez is looking like a bust at this point, but wouldn’t it be a better idea to roll the dice on a young, cost-controlled player who at least has some potential instead of spending more money on an older player who could easily post the same poor numbers?
I think the Mets should have given Martinez at least one more season. There is the slight chance that something finally clicks for Martinez and he ends up being a contributor. In the Miracle Mets world you might have a Nelson Cruz-type. Not necessarily the same level of production, but similar in that Fernandez could emerge as a late-bloomer and become worthy of a starting role. He certainly has the raw talent. In a worst-case scenario, Martinez continues to under perform as a part-time player. So what? What do the Mets have to lose in 2012? Or even 2013 for that matter? ~ Craig Williams, Rant Sports
I really cant argue with that logic. Fair or Foul?
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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I would have kept him, platooned him with Bay and seen if we could ever get anything out of Fern.
One more year, up here the whole time and getting consistent AB’s. Then I could walk away with no regrets. To me it seems that we didn’t give it every chance and with a LH corner OFer still a need in 2012 why not give it every chance?
Scouting, medical and pure projection may not be on Fern’s side anymore but if he’s a total bust DFA him mid season. We’ve had lots of guys worse than Fern play part and even full time here who had no upside.
I agree that the timing was odd. There were a few other guys that qualify as serviceable spare parts that could have been waived instead (likely passing through anyway), and if claimed, you can always find another one.
I don’t, however, think he was likely to win a regular job out of ST, and with other guys ahead of him on the depth chart, I assume that is part of the reason they cut bait when they did.
But, 1 more year seems like it would have made sense. So, you have to figure the FO knew more about him then has been disclosed (having all the medical info). Or there was something else going on?
Still, anyone that could take ABs away from Bay vs. RHP and could do anything with them would be great to have.
Agree here.
Although I don’t think it would have taken much to win a bench OF role coming out of SP. Makes you wonder if the FO knows something we don’t.
T, if scouting and projection aren’t on his side anymore, why continue to beat a dead horse? Why not give the shot to Baxter (.277) or Loewen (.267) instead of an experiment that’s continually failed (.274)?
What’s the difference?
I guess that’s what Happened X. Bottom line is the FO cut bait this year instead of giving him another year, half year or whatever.
Probably doesn’t make a difference in the whole scheme of things and Fern has always been the most underwhelming prospect I’ve ever seen in the Majors but one more full effort up here would have relieved some lingering doubts on my part which also makes no difference in the scheme of things.
Either way we would still only have Hairston as a backup CFer until Kirk is back to full swing anyway. I would have given him until then, cut Carrasco to save a spot but it’s certainly possible that even Carrasco is more likely to do something than Fern.
Why not give Baxter (.277) & Loewen (.267) a chance? If Sandy is signing bench players and filler using those OBP no wonder he keeps wasting money on weak hitting players.
Those numbers are completely misleading.
The truth is why not give Baxter – .213 AVG and Loewen – .167 AVG a chance. That’s the truth.
Those guys can’t HIT. And HITTING is what’s most important because if you can’t hit than I don’t care if your OBP is .290 if you are hitting .208. The OBP is misleading and since it’s always a higher number it makes a terrible player look better than he actually is. You seek a career as a major league player because of your ability to hit.
Baxters is hitting .213 and Loewen is hitting .167. Those are the real numbers – not the OBP.
When you hit that bad i can’t be bothered wasting time and money looking at OBP but evidently that’s what Sandy is doing. No wonder.
I don’t usually get this negative, but since you can’t ever like an adult, I’m entitled just once. You are without a doubt the biggest, most idiotic, stupidest human being to ever claim they had any working knowledge of baseball. Try reading and comprehending just once and maybe you’ll understand what I said.
What a moron and a liar and a hypocritical jerk. This guy swears up and down to an inefficient stat, and when it’s presented, whines and cries like a child about OBP, which was never even mentioned. It’s no wonder the entire Mets blogosphere thinks you’re an idiot and comes here expressly to make you look foolish. It’s so easy, sometimes it’s even fun.
Go find a baseball for dummies book.
Oh, I thought it was OBP, it was their minor league AVG. I misread it and that made X very angry
You didn’t “misread” because OBP was never mentioned anywhere at all. You made it up, maybe tried to catch a few people napping and lied about it when you got caught. I’d think maybe you misread it if it wasn’t your MO.
Hey everybody,
Now he’s getting real weird. He actually thinks I made that up when I’m trying to tell him i thought he was referring to OBP.
Why would i make something up? It makes no sense.
The guy is a FAT weirdo. I made a mistake and he wont’ accept it. The mind set of these people is mind boggling
There is nothing to lie about or make something up about – i thought this X creep was referring to OBP. It’s as simple as that.
Typical saber misrepresenting, twisting, and making things up. Kind of fits the flexibility use with numbers.
I’m completely lost as to why this guy is thinking i’m coming on here and making things up by when rereading it’s clear he’s talking about their minor league averages.
I can’t even figure out what it is that i have to make up!!
“…it’s clear he’s talking about their minor league averages.”
If it’s so clear, then why’d you invent a conversation about OBP? A mistake happens occasionally. Did you make a mistake when you thought the Wheeler deal was a salary dump? It was a mistake that you didn’t know Bay had an option? Or how about when you said the Mets should non-tender Pelfrey, then trade him. A mistake there, too?
And that’s only in the last couple of weeks. Mistakes happen sometimes. Not every time you open your mouth.
You can have the last word here. Everyone saw what just happened. Nothing else for me to do.
i will take that last word. You’re CRAZY. What can i possibly make up?
Can anybody else here tell me I can make up and invent here? You had me when i made the mistake originally. Now you’re in….i don’t know what it is you’re trying to achieve here – it’s like the Twilight Zone.
You made yourself look WORSE. I feel like Jack Nicholson with his hands out in the Shining when Wendy is falsely going nuts accusing him of yanking on his son’s arm
???
and who cares if I thought Beltran was a salary dump – there was an argument about it anyway.
The point of that conversation was Sandy hasn’t really made any REAL trades outside of the Pagan for Ramirez deal.
Saber guys sweating the unimportant stuff. Figures.
Disrupts the thread and now he thinks he’s in major motion pictures.
I’m out.
yeah i think i’m in motion pictures.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ASS on the way out. I’m not disrupting i’m defending myself against TWO lunatics who follow their own pathos.
Bayonne — Consensus has been reached. You’re a bad-mouthing spewer of accusations and insults. Yes you do make stuff up. Repeatedly you take offense, misconstrue and make issues up. Many times you’ve demostrated your confused mind. You take offense and repeat your claim when it is disproved. You either insert yourself into a thread with an endlessly repeated irrelevant claim or you just go into random attack mode. Being a lightweight isn’t a reason to repeat mindless claims in the hope of adding weight to a baseless view.
yeah right you old battle ax,
Just because i made a mistake and thought the guy was referring to OBP I’m the one to blame after he went after me with ridiculous accusations. I’m the bad guy, yeah right.
All you CLOWNS are one and the same. And I call you guys clowns cuz that’s exactly what you are. Deceitful clowns who look for any opening – even if the opening has nothing to do with the main point.
How old are you? And you still need to learn a lot about life and baseball. You disgust me.
X laid out a counter point to what I wrote and we had a civil exchange of opinion. We’ve disagreed even vehemently at times but even when I thought he was dead wrong at least he took the time to put some substance behind his opinion.
This was nothing more than jumping on something in order to attempt to invalidate X’s point without even taking the time to understand or comprehend what he was saying.
how DARE I misread that number as an OBP
HOW DARE I !!!!!!!!!!!
Loewen was .306/.377/.508 in the PCL last year so off hand I’d dock him down to a realistic .250/.325/.400 in the Majors as a baseline. Defensively and on the bases would require having seen him which I haven’t. 11 of 18 tells me can run but not how well and 7 assists is nice but are they obtained by guys running at will? 10 errors in 96 games in RF is kind of high.
Fern wasn’t much of a fielder or base runner after his first go around up here and Loewen if he could hit that baseline and was competent in RF would allow Duda to do less damage in LF.
Baxter didn’t impress and had no chance to meet Fern’s upside as unrealistic as him hitting it was.
I can see Loewen being a better choice with the tie breaker being the likleyhood of good play and a more competent defensive OF while platooning Bay and using him for late inning D on days he doesn’t start.
No…your never the one to shoot the first volley here are you?
When he responds in kind is that when we will hear about how he attacks everyone and how all you want to talk about is baseball?
Will we?
I agree with you in that I would have kept him and let him sink or swim. But in the end, I think i would have been wrong. He’s had his chance and other players have passed him by.
I would use Kirk Nieuwenhuis as F Mart would have been used and see how he would have done.
F Mart has become that idiot at the mall that gets off the escalator, takes a half a step and then thinks where they want to go… he was creating a log jam, with little promise that he’s be anything much
I don’t think it is going to be a big deal that we don’t have a left handed pinch hitter yet.
There will be plenty of them available during spring training and after the cut down to the 25 man roster.
I will probably get a chance to see if F-Mart can make it with the Astros several times as Houston spring trains an hour from my home and they also vist the Nationals and Mets a couple of times during Spring training.
He is one of the Mets most publicized prospects that we have had in a long time. I hope he makes it with the Astros.
“….Fernandez could emerge as a late-bloomer and become worthy of a starting role. He certainly has the raw talent…”
Starting role? Raw talent? How come we didn’t see it? Lastings Milledge showed flashes when he came up. Lucas Duda showed flashes last season. I didn’t see a flash from Martinez. I saw a guy who was over-matched and lost. He looked more like Tejada the first couple of times the Mets brought him up. Lost. The Mets have drafted poorly and evaluated talent badly for many years. Just ask Steve Chilcott.
Steve Chilcott? There’s a name I haven’t heard in decades! Thanks for ruining my breakfast. :-\
I made a point similar to this and got crucified for doing so here…
If the following is true:
1 – We need to save money
2 – We want to build with Youth
3 – have little chance to make the playoffs this year
Then why did we go out and get old vets to fill in the holes and lose CHEAP KIDS in the proccess?
Isn’t that what Omar did and what people say screwed up this team? At least the old vets Omar got were All Stars! Can anyone say that about Ramirez and Torres? Francisco?
I agree with everyone else F-Mart was a bust!
I agree Pride may not ever be an All Star!
But they were cheap, they were ours and they were a damn site younger than Hairston and Torres!
Pridie hit .231 with a .309 OBP
Torres hit .221 with a .312 OBP and he’s the probable Leadoff guy!
Pridie has only 3 years of MLB experience compared to 7 for Torres and is 6 years younger!
Pridie still has a potential upside and Torres is probably all he is ever going to be!
F-Mart may never be Willie Mays but he too is VERY young at 22 his problem has been Injury as much as performance (So much for the notion OLD guys get hurt more than Young ones do!)
If the plan is to stockpile as many young kids as possible so we can have something to trade when needed and something to promote to save money later on, then why are we trading youth for old giving up on youth in the name of short term CHEAP FILLER that does nothing for the long term view?
And why are these moves APPLAUDED by the same folks who insist we are looking and building for the long term? Don’t they see the conflict between what they think is right to do and what we are doing?
They all bitched about Omar replacing, losing or not using his kids in the name of High Priced, OLD All Stars because of an excuse similar to the ones made for getting Ramirez and Torres and Rauch, Something about THIS year, a year when even getting All Stars might not make us all that competitive!
I’m not going to claim F-Mart and pridie would ever become All Stars but Pridie is already every bit as good as Torres and F-Mart was always supposed to be!
I would rather we had kept them got something else for Pagan if he had to go and at least have the chance of hitting the lottery with either of those two getting it finally and becoming the player we thought they were or at minimum surpassing the production of some 33 year old who in 4 years will be 39 and long gone!
And at 4 times the price of either pridie or f-Mart! Twice the price of both combined!
And Torres is Arb eligible next year which likely means he gets even more if he does manage to last two years!
This is why we are having such vile discussions about Alderson around here…
People make statements that say one thing then applaud moves that are counter to that original statement!
1 – We are building with youth but every acquisition we have made has been for someone over 30!
2 – We are Building for the long term yet every acquisition is about THIS year being competitive and none of the players we got will be here past 2013!
3 – Omar was wrong for giving up on developing kids in the name of OLDER ALL STAR-SHORT TERM WINS yet these same people applaud when Sandy does that with guys who aren’t even close to EVER being All Stars!
4 – We need to save money and cut the waste out of the Payroll, yet there is applause when we give up on a guy who costs League Minimum in favor of using a guy who gets paid 4 times the price for the same production!
5 – We hear about how Sabermetrics is the only way to find good quality and value yet not a peep of complaint and instead excuses made FOR the moves that have NO SABERMETRIC BASIS for acquisition!
6 – We hear about how the GM needs to make good baseball decisions but complement him on a job well done when the decisions are based on SALARY not Baseball!
And when we say we don’t buy that duality of opinion we are called INSANE, IRRATIONAL, UNREALISTIC and BITTER!
No what it makes us is not TOO STUPID to fall for opinions that seems to conflict depending on what day it is and what move is being talked about!
Thats all!
Metsie…WOW. Well said. Alderson’s moves have been purplexing. He could have had a fire sale last July. He didn’t and players walked away for nothing returnered. I somehow feel that there is more to this story. Sandy came with MLB’s loan. He is their man.
He should’ve had the fire sale as soon as he was announced as the GM.He still would’ve been stuck with Santana and Bay’s contracts but he could’ve easily moved everybody else. If you’re gonna rebuild,don’t half ass it,tear it down.Frankly I thought Omar shoul’ve started having a firesale long before.
Fmar, Pridie or Evans would be better than Hairston for the fourth and fifth spot.
You could not be MORE wrong,
Instead of a fire sale when he got hired he should have tried to add to the competitive roster he inherited.
He inherited a lineup of Reyes, Murphy, Davis, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Pagan, & Thole. And that was before any injuries would happen (cuz you can’t predict that). And your pitching staff
And you’re calling for a fire sale while inheriting that lineup? The idea that anybody would not want to compete makes me sick to my stomach. Instead of making a half-assed attempt to compete last year with all those TERRIBLE signings with more than half of those guys already GONE. Alderson dropped the ball last year while teams signed nice players that could have fit within Mets budget. Aldersona is partly responsible for that 70 million dollar loss. Why? Because of his LOUSY off season because IN MY OPINION he felt he did not really have a team to contend with so why bother? I mean isn’t that what Beane is doing in Oakland now?
I couldn’t be more right and the team proves it year after year. That lineup was good for 25th in MLB in 2010 13th in the NL. Couldn’t score a run in the 2nd half. That’s a lineup full of ifs. If Beltran is healthy,if Reyes is healthy,if Bay hits,if Pagan is not a fluke,Thole sucks,Murphy has no position,Wright is in decline.The pitching staff has one legit front end starter who wasn’t going to be there,no bullpen except for an overpaid overrated closer.Contending team? That’s a 500 team at best. That team should’ve been wrecked a long time ago. You say you want to compete yet you want to build on a team that showed when they did have the pieces they choked anyway. Sandy screwed up by not gutting this mess of a team. I won’t even mention that they don’t even have money to sign a halfway decent player and you think that he was going to fill all the holes on the team last year without adding any payroll.That’s pretty funny. There was nothing out there last year that was going to turn a team full of ifs into a contender. You’re just looking for reasons to continue to hate this GM and nothing more.
Good job Metsie,
Those bullet points say it all. Well said, clear, concise, and right to the point
You know why there is duality Bayonne?
Because these guys have no actual clue what Sandy is doing!
They THOUGHT they knew what he was going to do and used those predictions as the basis for thier defense…But then he started making moves, started actually DOING things!
And what they argued was his plan was his reasoning was GOING to be was blown to tiny bits!
And now they are stuck with that position and too proud to admit they were dead wrong about what was about to happen and only making it worse by continuing the facade that it is STILL happening and every move is right in line with what they said!
Note not one of the defenders bothered to comment on what I said!
Tells you plenty doesn’t it?
When you tell the story from both sides of the mouth and put the,m into the same sentence you actually see who is the nut job and who is the one saying CRAZY things!
I will some up FMart in two words…..his knees. Without them, he will never be a player.
I tend to agree Pete…
But Knee rep;acement has come a long long way, so far that it is almost a routine operation these days!
SO he would only be a 4 tool player instead of a 5 Tool!
Still more tools than what we have playing there now with the exception of Kirk!
Kirk is going to be the CF I have no doubt. Just don’t see why we bothered taking on 1.5 Mil more than we had to until that happens!
That’s ‘sum up’ Petey…..and I agree. He must be physically unable to perform or he would probably still be here. So I say foul.
The timing thing is weird. If they were just going to drop him, why put him on the 40 man roster prior to the rule 5 draft? Something must have happened between then and when they dropped him.
Maybe his contract had deferred money, and the Mets were scared of being Bobby Bo’d…again.
I’m fairly certain he was still making league minimum.
Either they found something out or someone screwed up and he never should have been protected in December.
Could have found out something, could have been waiting to see if he made it onto the field in the Winter league, could have been trying to get something (anything) for him as a throw in in a trade. Like Niese and Fern for d’Anaurd intead of just Niese, Maybe something fell through or maybe he thought he could get Hairston and Cedeno to sign minor league deals or maybe after signing Loewen he felt that AAA position was upgraded enough as depth and waited to see if Fern medically came around for a bench role or maybe he just bungled the roster although he does seem to take his time and consider all the alternatives and consequences. Probably just couldn’t wait any longer.
Hard to say if things would have been different, personally I don’t in Ferns case but 18 years old in AA? Can’t see that being in too many prospect’s best interest and yes I’m aware Bryce Harper was brought up to AA but he didn’t have a 3-1 K/BB and he did dominate in A- and the Nat’s wanted to avoid playing Harper on what is probably the worst draining OF in professional baseball as well as express displeasure in the way their A+ affiliate is being run into the ground. Their A- team also has a problem with the playing surface in the OF as LF is significantly higher than center and right.
I would have liked to give Fern one last shot if possible at least until Kirk is ready to go but it probably doesn’t make a big difference. Hope he puts it together.
I think you have made the best suggestion yet…
Most likely something that happened in Winter league.
The waiver was made to make room for Hairston and Cedeno!
Herrera I think was the second guy they waived which makes the K-Rod trade all the more worthless.
Lucky for Sandy Herrera passed waivers and will be a non-roster invitee at ST.
If he lost him then the K-Rod trade is virtually for nothing but cash!
of course the KRod trade was always all about getting out from under the 2012 option. Herrara was just a throw in. Given the state of the financials, saving that huge hit to this year’s payroll was far from worthless.
And like you said, they still have the guy, so nothing lost there.
anyway, the Fern stuff of course is all speculation since none of us really know. But for all the grief some people like to pile on Sandy and the FO, they are experienced professionals, with a vested interest in making the organization as strong as possible, and they have a ton of inside knowledge about all their players. So there had to be a compelling reason they made the moves the way they did (and not because they are just stupid, or trying on purpose not to win!)
Not sure any GM is trying to lose, but that doesn’t mean everything Alderson does is meaningful, always the best move, and without reproach. He screwed up. It happens. No need to defend every single move he does as if he is infallible. He’s had eight straight losing season’s, that’s not exactly the mark of perfection.
Thank You Diana!
None of Sandy’s detractors have ever suggested he is trying to lose, that only comes up as a counterpoint by his defenders to defend a trade made that makes the team worse not better!
IE: Well of course this move must be an improvement because Sandy wants to win doesn’t he?” or “Do you think he WANTS the team to get worse?”
The issue isn’t really does Sandy want to win of course he does!
The issue is in regards to are the moves he is making ABOUT winning more, about making the team BETTER?
Or are the moves about saving money regardless of what affect it has on the Win Loss columns?
Most of his detractors understand that the finances are forcing him to make moves detrimental to the WIN Loss Column!
And we perfectly understand that rebuilding sometimes requires getting worse before you get better!
We just don’t believe we should be giving props to moves that make the team worse and wait until the moves he makes actually improve the team from the standpoint of where he started!
If I charge someone with the task of taking one step forward I do not start patting him on the back while he is taking 4 steps back to get the momentum he needs to go one step forward!
When he takes that step forward I will give him a hearty GOOD JOB!
Not until he does!
.
there are people here that flat out say he is not trying to (and does not care about) winning.
and there are not people posting here that I have seen that think every move the FO makes is wonderful, the only possible ones, etc. Only the few that abhor Sandy claim there are.
No….next question.
Your a real Henny Youngman of all Cheerleaders today!
Just came across this – I didn’t realize this. Apologize if it’s already been mentioned here.
According to a recent Joel Sherman article, numerous players could become available at that time because of a new clause in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, which basically states a player who has been in the league for six seasons and signed minor league contracts this off-season must be given a spot on the 25-man roster five days before the start of the regular season. Otherwise, they must be given a $100,000 bonus to be sent to the minor leagues and the right to opt out of those contracts by June 1.
Sherman says “It is unlikely many — if any — teams will agree to the $100,000 bonus. Thus, in late March, you can expect a layer of player movement that did not exist previously.”
**************************************
Makes me even more curious why the Mets choose this time to cut FMart loose. Not unless they figure to pick up a more established ML player at the end of ST when some are cut due to the team not wanting to pay the $100,000 bonus to stash them in the minors.
Wow. Good catch SRT. Guess your not going to be able to stash anyone you sign to a minor league deal without coughing up 100 G’s and even then you might lose them on June 1st.
Teams can now possibly upgrade on March 25th and June 1st without having signed anyone.
Interesting.
Funny how they lost patience in the kid after never giving him a consistent role, yet we as fans are expected to stay patient with this atrocity we’re having forced upon us.
this doesn’t really make sense. They gave him a role. Starting OF. then he got hurt all the time.