16
2012
MMO Fair or Foul: Reyes Still Hurt Mets Never Offered A Contract
An article by 
Here’s something you may have missed on MLB.com, but originally featured in the NY Post.
As Jose Reyes prepares for his first Spring Training as a Marlin, the former Mets shortstop told the New York Post he’s still a bit hurt that the Mets didn’t offer him a contract.
“I understand it’s a tough situation for the organization,” Reyes told the Post. “What they’re going through isn’t easy, and that’s why I was hurt at the beginning. But with the problems they have, I get it. I feel bad for them.”
In signing a six-year, $106 million deal with the Marlins in December, Reyes left the only professional team he’d known and was therefore disappointed to not even receive an offer.
“At least come to me and say, ‘This is what we have,’” he said. “Make a push. Even if it’s not what I’m looking for, show me you still want me.”
Shortly after Reyes signed with Miami, Mets general manager Sandy Alderson admitted that he wanted to bring back Reyes and was disappointed in how the negotiations went.
“I wouldn’t say that we’re happy,” Alderson said at the time, admitting that Reyes “was the most important thing on our agenda.”
Expect this story to linger on all the way through late April when the Marlins come to Citi Field. Heck it may even last until the Rapture…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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How about, “At least come to me and say, ‘I know you’re in a rough situation. I’ll soften my nine-figure demand for you. Even if it’s not what you can afford, I’ll show you I still want to be here.”
I know… People will stop crying once he’s on crutches in May.
And you wil START crying when he doesn’t and starts the All Star Game when we are already eliminated from the playoffs in July right?
Nope, but I did cry when argued with someone vehemently that Alou had a healthy season 07 season and that’s why he got a contract extension.
I’m sure you cry a lot getting beat the way you do!
Alou got an extension for hitting over .300!
Played in more than half the games which is about what you expect from a guy who was signed to platoon!
Espcially one who is supposed to only play against lefites which are fewer than righties!
He played plenty against them too!
Here read this, I’m not in the habit of correcting your faulty research but someone has to teach the icredibly stupid while TRS is busy posting to Blogs!
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061120&content_id=1744282&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym
Relevant part that makes you look foolish:
“Presumably, Alou, a career .330 batter against left-handed pitching, would be deployed in a modified platoon, playing against all or most left-handed starters and against some right-handers.”
Yes 87 games is more than half. Certainly deserved the 7.5m for a 300 batting average. You are right and I am wrong.
Wait. Platoon with you?
Who?*
Smart thinking giving up a first round pick for a 40 year old OFer and kicking off the 40 man roster a 21 year old catcher who hit 21 HR’s in A+ and losing him in the rule 5 draft.
Yep they stayed competitive that year didn’t they?
Tell me whats your take on Francisco and Torres knocking Pride off the roster?
Are they going to get us to the last week of september with a chance to make the playoffs?
Is staying competitive the goal Metsie?
Well congratulations all the way around. High fives and champagne. In it to the last day. That qualifies as one of the best seasons we’ve had in over two decades now. 88 wins. 54% and we only had to borrow three first round and one 2nd round pick from our future, along with our current starting catcher.
Reason to celebrate.
You keep forgetting in your history the WS appearance and how many Playoffs we have appeared in apparently…
Tell me something do you think this collection of Kids is going to win you a WS?
Name one team comprised of ALL ROOKIES and KIDS who ever won one!
The Marlins?
Is that all in the hundred plus year history of Baseball?
You are the one who kept saying we needed to be as competitive as the Braves and Phillies…
That was the selling point on your draft only approach!
You closer or further away from those goals today than you were last season?
Metsie here’s a thread from Aldersons annoncement as GM. This shows what a phony you are.Read your comments from back then and explain why you’ve changed your stance about the way Alderson is rebuilding the club.Explaain why you thought this was a 4-5 year plan back then but think we could win with the group we had when he took over. This proves what a fraud you are.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2010/10/breaking-news-mets-to-name-sandy-alderson-gm.html
Not one thing I said was in conflict with what I said today! Not a ONE!
Basically he didn’t do what I thought he would! A 4 or 5 year plan WITH the guys he had!
Does he have them anymore? NO!!!!!!!!!
So nice try slappy but you failed yet again!
And I have stated at least three dozen times I have no problem with it taking 4 or 5 years to get to the winning!
Just have a problem going BACKWARDS first!
But It fugires an idiot who would dismantle a one win away from playoff team would get the wrong idea from something he THOUGHT he read!
But I can’t help stop the stupid from acting stupid now can I?
Of course the Spin Dr is going to try to spin his way out of what he said. It’s expected from you” Fraudsie” the artist formerly known as “Metsie”.
Metsie October 27, 2010 at 1:08 pm .
It is frustrating! My only concern is I know blogland will be calling for change before the next season ends!
Hell they are already looking to trade the only GOOD players we have just read the posts regarding Beltran here! LOL
I personally care less about how long it takes provided I see the team playing hard, getting better and showing me that they are not expansion team material. And as long as Alderson comes out and says he decided to rebuild from the ground up and start fresh I wouldn’t even have a problem with a year or two of that expansion level.
I just want to see them get a little better each year and play good baseball. Even if no roster moves are made I believe if we just stay healthy this team has what it takes to win.
Which side of your mouth are you speaking with now,just so we all know. ” I wouldn’t even hhave a problem with a year or two of that expansion level play. They were much better than expansion level play last year Fraudsie so what’s the problem.??????
Still waiting for some of your ideas that would be the better way to go than what the current front office is doing. Lets hear it Mr GM….
I don’t need to spin anything asswipe!
DId you note this part of what you quoted?
“I personally care less about how long it takes provided I see the team playing hard, GETTING BETTER and showing me that they are not EXPANSION TEAM material”
What part of that you quoted did your limited brain have problems comprehending?
I, Team or the period?
You really are dumber than a doorknob!
Jeez guys this website is supposed to be about baseball and the Mets, not Met fans.
Now it’s going to be all about poor little bayonne all day every day? Who cares.
Why don’t we all just discuss the team, organization or game in general.
Personally I think you should respond to your seeming contradictory statements Metsie. There is nothing wrong with changing one’s mind but at least acknowledge and explain the reasons behind this metamorphis and please, how about all of us just having a normal conversation about our ideas for the team.
Too bAd X, Donal Gary and Trs instead want to make it about bullying and insults!
Gonna take them to task too Tag or join them?
I did just respond to my statements you SEEM to think conflict but do not in anyway shape or form! just above your post…did you miss it?
What have I said recently?
Sandy is making the team WORSE!
He is making us into a EXPANSION TEAM!
Where is the conflict pray tell?
Or do you just want to join those guys in the bullying?
He was not signed to be a platoon player. He was signed to be the everyday LFer. Why do you always have to lie? He had been injured most of the previous 2 years and a hell of a lot during his prime years so it made no sense to fork over 2 draft picks for an oft injured 40 year old. We miss the WS by one game with an antiquated pitching staff and our big offseason aquisition was a broken down 40 year old.
Guess you missed the link I posted and the passage from it….
Try reading instead of revenging on players who missed the playoffs by one game and ruining your life to the point that you wanted them all sent packing so they could be 20 games out of the playoffs instead!
!
I did read it but apparently you didn’t or you just went on the writers assumptions. Here’s what the article said.
The club’s plan to have Alou play left field regularly or close to regularly pushes Milledge aside at the position the Mets think suits him best, given their other personnel. The 21-year-old, right-handed-hitting 2006 rookie conceivably could be used to spell Shawn Green in right field, but any sort of time-share arrangement probably would afford Milledge so little playing time that his development would be retarded
Maybe if he played a little during the summer instead of vacationing in a hot tub somewhere at Club Med they wouldn’t have choked a 7 game lead away.
You read and quoted everything BUT the part about him platooning!
Did Xtreeme teach you that little extrication trick?
That’s because the writer said presumably platooning. The fact of the matter is they were counting on him to play 140 games minimum. You just failed to point out the clubs plans and just reiterated what the rwriter presumed. A typical Metsie tactic.Anything and everything to try and prove a point except cold hard FACTS.
C’mon Metsie not even Ted Stepian would have given up a first round pick for a 40 year old OFer he planned to platoon, give us a break.
The plan was Alou and double switch in Endy in the 7th, 8th or 9th 85% of the time with Endy starting and playing the whole game maybe 25 games.
Not a bad plan at all and Alou did hit great but considering just waiting to sign Alou for just one week would have saved our #1 pick and kept our best catching prospect in the organization it turns into an epically disastrous “move.”
Combine that while bungle with the rest of the 2007 draft, the off season bullpen signings and the fact that Alou didn’t put us over the top and what are we left with?
Washington has a good backup catcher that would have been our starting catcher. Miami got Stanton, Nat’s got Jordan Zimmerman,Smaoker and a top catching prospect that went in the Gio deal (Derick Norris 4th rnd) Braves got Heyward and Freeman, Phils got a top catcher Travis d’anaurd who helped them get Halliday. We got Kunz, Vineyard, Rustich, Moviel, Niessen, Clyne, Schowenweiss, Burgos, Alou, and the sweet memory of coming so close………..
This off season is where things really turned against us when you think about it. signing Alou just one week later when SF would have had to offer arb would have almost certainly saved our draft pick and who knows. Stanton, Jordan Zimmerman, Travis d’anaurd, Derick Norris, Freddie Freeman. Lots of useful guys plus we would have kept Flores.
Poor thought process that entire off season. Thank God Zito turned us down.
Yawn Fonzie!
Point was they brought him in to face lefties!
Thats a platoon player!
Tag doesn’t matter they got a .300+ hitter!
Yes people make those deals!
Giants made a deal like that with Bletran and didn’t even get a .300 Hitter!
Those deals happen all the time and they don’t always fail!
Yeah I could see why you’re yawning. Must be exhausting spweing bullshit on a blog for so many years. He was brought in because he killed lefties not just to face lefties. If you noticed he hit righties pretty well too. He was a borderline hall of famer.Only problem was he was turning 41 and missed a ton of games in the 2 previous years and we lost 2 1st round picks.
How many lies do you think you can get by with? Especially the Bayonne lie. Yeah he never starts the flame wars…Wink wink…
Yeah bullshit like one win away from playoffs means it’s time to clean house!
Yeah your really smart for decimating a team that was one win away from the playoffs!
Show of Hands how many people would sell off every player after missing theplayoffs by ONE game?
Anyone else with this guy we could save a lot of time and typing if we just get a show of posts how many believe a firesale after missing the playoffs by one game is a good idea!
Then we will see who is the one with the BULLSHIT Fonzie!
Ehhhhhhhhhh!
But then he would be bid agnstimself no? We all know how HORRIBLE a thing it is to do that!
Sandy on the other hand would not be bidding against himself he would be bidding against the Marlins and have the lure of NY to entice the bid giving a discount!
Personally I think the Mets should have ponied up the cash after all they had gotten Reyes for a bargain all told. 34 M over 8.5 years is an average annual cost of 4 M per year.
Where was the loyalty? Where was the thanks? Where was the appreciation? Kid played hard, never got in trouble, never caused any drama and brought an awful lot of interest to the Mets and considering how quickly he helped fumigate the stink of “The worst team money could buy” Part 2 when he arrived here he should have been the first guy taken care of and the right time to have done it was a year BEFORE his club option was excercized.
Months before ST 2010 he had proven his hamstring was repaired and while he was sidelined with the thyroid thing would have been the perfect time to approach him about an extension. It’s not like it was a secret that he was going to be a free agent after 2011.
Having come off an injury marred season and with TWO years to make it through healthy to get paid fair market value that would eliminated a lot of the Risk for Reyes and would have gotten him with money we shouldn’t have spent on Bay.
4/75 or 5/90 easily gets us Reyes back then and he provides the bridge to keep us interested and competitive till we can get to a reasonable strength.
Plenty of cash to reward guys for what they did before, no problem there but nothing left over for one of our own.
Once again, as always, no thought ever given to the future. This year, this year, this year.
That’s why nothing here ever changes. 4th and 5th place is routine around here.
Wow, we actually agree on everything you said. Two stunners in one day for me.
Well we have agreed on a few things before Maniac. We’ve just had core differences. I don’t believe that you can win consistently with the majority of your production expected to come from any where other than your farm system. You do. Fair enough but there’s still room in between those two philosophies.
Just for the record Maniac Tag never really wanted Reyes gone!
Yeah it’s kind of what me and you had said all during the negotiation, that was never really a negotiation just a STANCE!
There we a ton of ways it could have been approached by Sandy and he can say it was an important thing on his agenda but no one should be buying that crap!
What was important was getting those picks! He made sure to call the MLB to be sure the new CBA would not deprive him of them but couldn’t make a call and say “I Know you will probably get more but we want you and this is what we can afford”
Maybe instead of a 6 year deal he gets a 3 year deal or one thats backloaded until Sandy fixes the finances (which is pretty much what Marlins gave him!)
a 3 year deal at 15 Mil per is more in the first three years than what Miami gave him!
and it amounts to only a 4 Mil raise per year from last year’s total!
So we don’t get Francisco because of that! Well Francisco isn’t going to replace those RS’ or stop enough of them to make up the difference!
Just sad how that all played out and infuriating that Sandy still is trying that snow job of “IMPORTANCE” on a negotiation he pretty much avoided at all costs!
15m is what the team spent on every other FA this season, so if they did that they couldn’t of filled other holes.
Why would Reyes take 3x15m when he has 6 stable years for over 100m, so that’s not happening.
It didn’t happen, so get over it.
Oh yeah you filled holes!
With 15 million dollars worth of DIRT!
Yeah, there was no way Reyes was taking any 3 year offer, IMO.
I wish they had at least made an offer to see where it might have gone. I don’t believe anything Alderson or the Wilpons say. They are chronic liars (or worse), manipulate their fan base, and, big surprise, the Mets stink.
Just saw the tweet on the passing of Gary Carter.
Damn….R.I.P, Gary.
damn. RIP Kid
Oh poor Jose feels dissed. Well spring training hasn’t started so he can go to the Marlins and say I want out and I want to talk to the Mets again , I may have made a mistake. Oh PleeeeeeeeZ cut the crap and go play for you new team and get out of our lives!
I like the guy, but screw Jose. You and your agent refused to discuss contract at several points during the summer. You met Loria at 12:01, your agent told Mets don’t bother unless your over $100 million, you took the money and ran. Good luck and goodbye.
Hate to say it, but I bet Mets are better without him. when ARod left Mariners, they were 28 games better the next year; when ARod left Texas they were 17 games better. And the first year with him, the Yanks and Rangers were a total of 2 games better than the year before.
He wanted to be a FA and get a huge contract, which is his right, but don’t get what you want and be a little bitch ans say “oh daddy didn’t hug me enough”.
Mets did the right thing in not matching his contract. Plus the idiot is making less the next 2 years than he did last year, he has a no trade and if he doesn’t blow his hammy, he’ll be traded to god knows where in 2 years.
screw Sandy for refusing to negotiate with Anyone in Spring and Winter!
Unless they are coming out of the KMart bin!
RIP Gary Carter! Thanks for the memories.
Are you friggen kidding me?
He felt so bad he wouldn’t negotiate during the season. Boo hoo. He made it very clear he was going fot eh big payday.
I don’t hold it against him he went for the biggest deal he could. Good for him. Th way the system is, he should make as much as he can while he’s a hot commodity.
But don’t insult our intelligence with the hurt feelings routine. If you’re here for 9 damn years and don’t feel welcome, well then either you aren’t welcome or you expect too damn much. Rest assured, it wasn’t the former
He made a business decision.
Still playing around trying to get that FANTASY of yours published?
Sandy had his chance in the offseason and said no FIRST!
Reyes said well if not now then not during the season!
Sandy made no OFFER in the summer if he had made one maybe Reyes changes his mind!
All Sandy did was want to talk and he knew the answer before he picked up the phone because he got it when he turned reyes down FIRST!
I really don[t think that Alderson can be blamed for wanting to see Reyes play for himself before committing to a large portion of the scarce dollars he had to work with. More than a full seasons payroll as it turns out.
If jobs weren’t on the line in 2010 we don’t gamble on Bay, we take care of one of our own and we either extend him after the club option or instead of it.
By August first Minaya wasn’t making decisions beyond salary dumps and that was that. The right time to approach him was before Alderson even got here cause if you leave it to the last second……………….but we already knew that. Remember Olerud and Hampton?
Difference being this was a guy who’s # should have been put up on the wall sometime around 2020.
Damn shame.
“Still playing around trying to get that FANTASY of yours published?”
Which part isn’t true? Or is “fantasy” part of the very long and ever growing list of words you use but don’t understand?
“Sandy had his chance in the offseason and said no FIRST!
Reyes said well if not now then not during the season!”
Yes, they both made business decisions based on their current situation and when they would have the best leverage. Neither were wrong, but neither has a right to act like they were insulted.
Reyes wanted at least $100 million. Are you saying Alderson should have agreed to that in March?
“Sandy made no OFFER in the summer if he had made one maybe Reyes changes his mind!”
He tried to negotiate. Reyes was not interested.
“All Sandy did was want to talk and he knew the answer before he picked up the phone because he got it when he turned reyes down FIRST!”
Because it was not in his (which is also the team’s) best interest to cut Reyes a $100 million deal in March of 2011.
And if Reyes’ only defense against that is “well, he did it first!”, then maybe he still has those maturity problems. Because only a first grader’s mentality accepts that.
Keep on running from the fact that Sandy refused to negotiate after all of that in the offseason when 99.9% of contracts are negoiated!
Sandy leads the refuse to negotiate game by a score of 2-1!
Reyes didn’t hurt himself by his decisions. Sandy did!
Metsie — It’s time to pull the curtain on your show. It’s been playing a long time.
Reality hurts doesn’t it Des?
Why should I stop saying what I have when everyone INCLUDING you think we are most likely going to guard the cellar this year?
Shouldn’t the ones who keep trying to say everything is fine despite that Cellar address be the ones to stop with the fantasy crap?
You knew we’d be in this position,why change now? Here’s proof! You like proof,well here it is. Don’t run now.
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2010/10/breaking-news-mets-to-name-sandy-alderson-gm.html
We are NOT in the position I stated are we?
Are we competitive? NO!
THATS the point not the one on your head the one in that post!
As much as I wanted Jose to stay, realistically I saw this handwriting on the wall by Sep.
Mets didn’t make an offer in ST.
Jose didn’t want to negotiate in season. He said half a dozen times he was looking forward to going through his first FA. That told me all I needed to know.
Miami was the first offer he received and as far as we know, the only offer he received. For someone who was excited to go through the process he jumped on that offer fairly quickly. Very telling to me. Either his agent advised him that’s probably as good as he’d get, he wanted to go to Miami….or likely both.
“At least come to me and say, ‘This is what we have,’” he said. “Make a push. Even if it’s not what I’m looking for, show me you still want me.”
Like Reyes said in his press conference when he was announced as the newest member of the Marlins this is a business “this is a business.” in the end he signed with Miami not cause they came after him 1 minute past midnight as they made sure to often say but only after raising their offer to 6yrs $100M not a minute before.
Tthe if only they offered me something even if it was not something I was looking for stuff as he is attending a charity event as a member of the Marlins is funny at best.
It’s a business he conducted himself and treated it as a business and he signed in the end once the Marlins gave him the guaranteed 6 yrs $100M. Enough is known through his own agent’s words of what ballpark figures the Mets were in and how the 2nd offer by the Marlins once made was above the parameters the agent had been discussing with the Mets.
The door swings both ways. If he really wanted to only stay in NY his agent could just as easily acted on that on his behalf. He did what he felt was best for him and his family. I don’t begrudge him one bit in doing so. I just wish he could just move on and spare me the if only stuff.
was it the upping of the offer or the fact that we didn’t make even ONE and they made two so he figured thats all there is to take?
Ownership made a financial decision…..like him or not Alderson was just the messenger; folks want to keep on killing the messenger. Time to move on kids.
Heybatter — You’ve got the situation sized up. Jose issued a demand and only the Marlins thought he was worth it. Jose is not a saint regardless of how his admirers try to paint him. Next batter up. Let’s focus on the guys who really want to play in the Big Apple.
i don’t like signing mid-30 – 40 yr old F/A’s as a tactic to ‘win’. Odds are, it’s a losing strategy in terms of $$$’s and lost draft choices versus winning in the post season. It doesn’t typically work. i was against both the Alou and the Glavibe signings for those reasons (although i did favor signing Jamie Moyers that year instead of Glavine).
But does anybody know ‘who’ we ‘lost’ as draftees in those signings? Not that we would’ve picked the same prospects, but how did the Braves and the Cubs do with those signings that year?
Curious…
I liked Jose as a player. His playing days as a Mets performer are over. I think he should just go and play ball wherever he winds up. Aftere a couple of seasons, it’s not likely to be in Miami. His current theatrical act of being hurt is for the birds. He inflicted his own wounds out of pride and going for his own best deal. No offense taken by most Mets fans, but Jose is mistakenly milking the melodrama.
i agree with you, Des. i think Jose is starring in his own Soap Opera. He wanted the best deal he could get. We weren’t in the running for that kind opf money given our Wilpon problem. God bles him. He got it. Good luck, Jose.
Regardless of the Wilpons’ mess the contract Reyes got from the Marlins was foolish, especially considering where the Mets currently are.
Of course in this thread leading the way was xtreembuttkisser.. with that being said i understand jose’s POV, people here say he took the best deal and ran with it, well, duh, the mets led by sandy alderson never even offered a contract.. never at one point he said we offered him this or called him up and said we only got this, convinient how AFTER reyes signed he came out publically and said well, we lost $70 million and a day later signed francisco and rauch for $16 million.. the WORST GM IN FRANCHISE HISTORY.. the way he handles himself, how snaky he is, everything that is wrong with the mets starts at the top with the owners and the sabergoons in the front office..
Alex68 — Apparently you don’t like Sandy. I think he’s a dose of fresh air. To use a one size fits all measure, you think Sandy and Fred are cut from the same cloth. That forced similarity, in my view, shows some obtuseness. So be it,
People keep saying Jose took the best offer!
Which is PRECISELY WHY Sandy made NO OFFER!
So people would think Jose just went for the money!
You see if he MADE an offer that was less than what the Marlins made, Jose MIGHT have taken it and he would not have gotten his draft picks then he would be STUCK with a player he didn’t want!
So he made ZERO offers so any offer Jose took could be said to be because of the money not the lack of interest by the Mets!
All Jose did was take the offer he got!
If Sandy had made an offer for less then they might have a point! He didn’t!
Jose took the deal that was there because the only team he would have played for less PASSED on wanting him and making him an offer!
You just don’t like him because he’s not playing monkeyball.
You want every off season to be like Christmas morning with a Vince Coleman under the tree and an Oliver Perez in the stocking and a Mo Vaughn stuck in the chimney but we’ve tried that time and time again and it hasn’t worked and it will never work, Ever.
What we need is to get the majority of the heavy lifting from guys we develop, bring up here and have for 6-10 years, then add in a particularly good fitting FA or two, not develop two guys and fit them in between 23 guys on their last legs and last contracts assembled from all over the MLB landscape.
That’s stupid and would just continue to yield the same abysmal results we’ve had overall since we first started practicing monkeyball,
Three post seasons and three near misses in 21 years is a HORRENDOUS job. With the largest payroll in the entire :League it would be difficult to achieve those putrid results if you were trying to.
No I don’t like him because he has made the team worse by making Accounting points count more than Baseball!
Call it whatever you like but it’s funny the only teams that anyone EXPECTS to be in the Playoffs this year are the ones who spent!
Your way worked right up until 1977, after that it stopped working!
See Pirates and Oakland!
They are the ones paying Monkeys to play baseball because they are cheaper!
And now we are too!
My thought is that every athlete does this. Part of it I think is that they don’t understand the business side, part of it is that they are trying to ward off any boos when they come back.
The idea that he needed the Mets to court him in order to consider them? Couldn’t he have done the same? He said he knew the Mets situation was grim, now realizes how grim but is upset they did not approach him anyway? What was keeping Reyes from approaching them and saying I know your situation is bad but I really want to be here so lets work something out? Nope. All on the Mets, none on the player.
It was a mutual decision, time to move on.
Probably still pissed he had to buy his own box of chocolates.
I really don’t understand why players say stuff like this after the fact. Everyone knows it is about the money, and you just make yourself look silly complaining about not being loved.
and if Sandy has written and submitted a formal offer letter for whatever they could afford/would do (5/75?), then what? Whould he have pouted about being insutled but such a shabby offer?
I think the team should have tired to lock him up at a discount after 2010, but I can see why they were reluctant to do that. didn’t work out for the Mets, but did for Jose.
but don’t start with the crocodile tears that he really wanted to stay, they forced him away, etc. That is pure BS. He was on record as saying FA or bust.
Cliff lee could’ve had 20 to 25 more million in his pocket,but he chose less years and less $ to be in philly, a place where he felt comfortable, but of course, reyes could’ve have been the same as lee, no, he was after the money and that’s it.. well, the mets didn’t even try!!!
funny how most of the ppl here bashing on reyes are sandy’s apologist or david wright’s fans to the end.. honesly reding comments like ths is make me really sad to tell you the truth..
Myth, Lee took the highest average annual value offered.
MYTH whatever TRS tries to say!
You really should research things before you spout!
Lee took the highest offer! If so then why isn’t he wearing pinstripes!
Xtreem and jessup tried this crap MYTH before and it was quickly squashed then too!
Go look at the average annual value of his salary.
Why not just go look at the total!
30 Mil left on the table and you yahoos say he went for the money right?
Get a clue!
Nope. Lee took the highest offer. The only difference is in the last year (options are involved). But his annual salary is the highest (so over the 5 years he is guaranteed to make more).
and he came back to the phils at the end with a “beat this” opportunity. and they did. But myth that he took a discount or left money on the table to follow his heart.
Yes because we all know that 120 Mil is SO MUCH MORE money than 150 Million right?
And you guys want to use stats to calculate things?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/14/cliff-lee-phillies_n_796298.html
Get a clue already this has been shot down so many times and so thoroughly that constant repeating of this garbage notion that he gets MORE money in Philly is not going to make it any truer!
more per year on the guaranteed part.
he just chose to go a year shorter for more $ per year.
Why is that so hard to understand?
would you aregue that a guy who signed an 8 year 80 mill deal is getting paid more than one who signed for 3/50, with the intent of signing a new contract after that?
Any, this guy was just proposing offering Reyes 3/45… pointless.
If you had ans he left at least you would have some basis for claiming he went for the money and reyes wouldn’t be able to complain about our rebuffing his efforts to come back!
Who cares? It’s over. Jose wanted the Marlins, the Marlins wanted Jose. Why do we spend so much time talking about a former player?
Yep it’s over!
The Marlins wanted Jose, We didn’t!
Jose wanted a good deal! We made no offer!
He took the deal that WAS offered not more money than we were offerring because we didn’t offer any!
You are right, it’s over… Now you can move on.
Per Year?
SO a guy who takes a one year deal at 22 Mil took the BETTER DEAL when he tuirned down a 5 year 19 Mil per deal?
Get a friken clue please!
More intents on manipulating the truth by the side who claims they are realistic while the rest of us are nuts!
I guess why let the facts get in the way of the story your trying to tell!
Any, TRS…….don’t forget the arbitration part. If the Phillies want draft picks, they have to offer him arbitration, and by rule, he can’t make less than $22 mil if he accepts (20% of 27.5). So if he accepts arbitration because the market won’t give him that much, his deal becomes $135+$22 = $157 for the seven years with them, as opposed as the $150 for seven years the Yanks offered.
Which also shows that he would have been hurt with the Yankees final year being 16 million.
Exactly……that’s why he went to the Phils. More money when you factor in EVERYTHING.
Didn’t you know that when these discussions go on, you are not allowed to look at everything only the one thing. More information and forward thinking is not allowed, everything is black and white and there is no middle ground.
And do you know during these discussions that when one point made by you is thwarted you quickly move on the change the subject and think you found something new but really applies to BOTH sides of the argument?
Your the consumate Bridge salesman X!
How much do the Phillies pay him if he refuse that arbitration pray tell?
How much do the yankees pay him if he accepts?
Unless you can show they pay him 30 Million in Arb there is no way for the Phillies to pay him more than the yankees under the same circumstance!
Now this is where you have to show that the yankees CAN NOT offer arbitration like the Phillies could or sadly you get showed up as a FACT FRAUD again!
“Didn’t you know that when these discussions go on, you are not allowed to look at everything only the one thing”
Yeah only thre half the story you guys make and never look at the flipside that shows your point applies to BOTH sides equally!
You mean like that?
I think you are just arguing with yourself at this point.
Actually no but I have no idea how I can explain it any more clearly to you.
There were 2 offers on the table from the Yankees. One for 6 years, one for 7 years. The one for 6 years paid him 3M more over the course of those 7 years. The one for 7 years would have actually paid him less than if he would have taken the 6 year deal and either hit the open market or accepted arbitration.
Again, there are two sides to this and we have spent 3 hours arguing over a player that plays for the Phillies. I can see your point that there was more guaranteed original money in the Yankees deal as long as you can see the point that assuming normal circumstances the Phillies deal set him up for more money over all. Then we can move on to the next pointless argument.
Well gary you guys cetainly aren’t putting up any decent fight so maybe!
So far all of your attempts at manipulating numbers and facts have been twarted!
So you do as I have said you do and went right to the insults because you run out of ways to twist the facts!
Yeah you go right on believing all that TRS!
The 150 Milo dieal was turned down!
The 130 Mil deal was accepted and with all your feeble attemtps to tack on arb money it still comes out to 166 Mil for the yanks and only 157 Mil for the Phillies!
Nice try but you can’t explain you position any better because it’s patently WRONG and based on false assumption and fact manipulation!
I’m not buying it until you show how the Phillies manage to wind up paying him more than 166 Mil without a new contract that has nothing to do with THIS contract!
Thwarted? Is this some type of superhero plot?
LOL, neither point has been proven correct or incorrect. In fact if anything Tagee has been the most logical in the fact that the contracts were so even that he went where he wanted to go.
Again, pointless we are going to see this issue differently like how you see that Reyes is only being paid 15M or whatever it is for this year. Years do matter. The fact that he could be paid 6 years at a higher rate and take arbitration based on a high value is a selling point like it or not. In the end the deal is so similar it was not about money. No matter how you look at it the Yankees deal (unless you are using the 6 year deal which I already said accounted to the Yankees paying him 3M more) was for more years and would obviously be a higher total but less money in the final year. The Phillies deal was for a higher average annual value with a chance to make more in the 7th year than what the Yankees proposed.
Again, you see it one way and many see it another way. Time to move on.
LALALLALALA…Need more straws to grasp?
Draft pick compensation? ROFLMAO!
You don;t think the Yankees wouldn’t have to offer arb as well to get pick? OR did you forget they would have that option as well?
Of course they would, but arb coming off an $15 mil season is vastly different from arb coming off a $27.5 mil season. Looking ahead is not your strong siut, we’ve established that.
Since when is arbitration based on just what you made the last year? Huh?
Especially not where FA contract endings are concerned!
But I will play just this last time!
27 mil plus 130 Mil is 157 Mil!
150 Mil plus 16 Mil is 166 Mil!
Any Questions?
LOL that’s 8 years compared to 7 years and here we start the discussion over again.
Bruce Chen got $9 mil. You don’t think Lee can?
And also…..”Since when is arbitration based on just what you made the last year? Huh?”
Since arbitration started? I’d ask if you knew the rules, but it’s clear the answer to that question.
Arbitration is always based only on last years salary and nothing but last years salary.
Course if the Phills want him they’ll express that interest and work something out before it gets to that point just like all teams do when they consider someone vital to their success like Tulo, Hansley, Jeter, Mauer, Kemp, and a million other guys not named Reyes.
Those decisions involve close involvement and agreement with ownership in order to get them done.
Yep TRS you tryto add a year so I can too!
See thats how it works when your tricks at manipulation are used against you!
LOL, there was always an extra year unless you are talking about the Yankees offering 6 years at 3M more total. The point was always that they offered him an extra year that overall brought the total value of the contract down. In fact the 6 year deal from the Yankees would have most likely been more attractive than the 7 year deal. The 7 year deal favored the Yankees.
Who is talking about draft pick compensation? You think Cliff cared who got draft picks? We are saying that obviously both teams would offer arbitration and the fact that his last year in a 6 year deal was higher he would have gotten more guaranteed.
Pointless.
You guys were the ones trying to!
Try reading the posts teacher!
Who is you guys? Cliff Lee does not care if they get draft picks but he does care if they offer arbitration.
The difference in the two contract offers are impossible to really differenciate because if he get hurt the NYY deal would have been better. If he doesn’t get hurt and is still on top of his game the Philly deal is better.
At the money and years both were offerring the decision came down to where they wanted to live and play ball for. Both Teams had the same chance of success but the lee’s liked living in Philly and the only way they found that out was because Philly had the goods in the farm to get him. an IFA and prospects drafted in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round.
Haven’t heard recently of anyone willing to trade a pitcher of the caliber of Cliff Lee to us for any of our 2nd 3rd or 4th rounders.
Right but to say that he turned down tons of money to go back to the Phillies is not only incorrect but just trying to make a feel good story out of thin air.
hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha!
Yopur desperatly trying to add years and arbitration none of which is actually part of this deal and I’m the one accused of THIN AIR facts!
You are really a hoot!
Bye I’m off to work!
Have fun trying to find new THIN AIR ways of manipulating the deal so it looks like but isn’t now or ever better than the deal Lee turned down from the yankees!
Right. The differences between the two contracts and which one winds up being the better choice can’t be known until 6 years from now but they both guaranteed him financial freedom for life and either 6 or 7 years of pennant contention so he took the higher AAV and one year less.
Cashman’s final offer was pretty shrewd though. He could have offered arb on a 10 M dollar last season while no way Philly can take that chance. Can you imagine a 33 M dollar award?
His contract counting options is 135M/6 years or 120/5 years.
Yankees offer 7/150 or 6/138 with option only worth 16M.
So basically if Lee had signed with the Yankees he would have only been paid an extra 3M over 6 years or would have worked his final year for 15/16M most likely less than what he could get on the market.
Again, looking at it strictly from a business standpoint, Lee will be a year younger coming off a season where he was paid 27.5M instead of a year older and coming off a season he made 15.
You are trying to make sense with something that has as much sense as a couch. Why bother?
LOL your a friggin teacher….
Is the following equation true?
135>150?
Only a COUCH would say that is true!
See TRS, point proven. Why bother.
What point was that you made?
Was it that you failed Math? Was TRS your math teacher?
Would explain a lot!
It’s actually a great comparison to many of your beliefs. Most of your comments have to do with short term approach verses long term. Lee not only scored more per year on the contract but he also put himself in a position to secure a higher contract if he has a desire to play any longer.
If you wanted a new contract and are still performing well would you rather have the last year of your previous contract in the 20′s of at 15m?
yeah illustrate how thre NEXT contract means this one was for more money than the Yankees?
Please do cause it will look far worse than anything you guys berate Bayonne for!
Bottom line he took less money until you can show that 130 Mil is MORE than 150 Mil!
Changing the subject to somedeal that hasn’t happend is not going to work any better than saying making the team worse has improved us in a future that also hasn’t happened yet!
Funny how all of your points are predicated on something happening that hasn’t happend yet isn’t it?
well, last I checked, 7>6
yep 150>135 and 7>6
yet you say he took more money!
And you want to say I’m crazy!
Per year means squat!
Is taking a 1 year deal at 20 Milo taking more money than a two year deal at 19 Mil?
If thats the last deal your going to have….
Which one would you rather have? The Guaranteed extra 18 Mil or the bragging rights for a year?
last response since you seem out of control on this.
you are assuming he will not sign another deal. he is probably assuming he will sign another deal.
so yes, per year IS what matters when you are saying he left money on the table.
that 7 from the Yankees though I don’t believe is all guaranteed. when you start getting into options it gets murkier.
so bottom line, he wanted to be in philly, but still was heading elsewhere until they ponied up the highest paycheck. at most he wolled the dice that he can sign another deal for year 6?
again Any whats with the subterfuge here?
What does signing ANOTHER deal have anything to do with the decision to ytake less on THIS deal?
He could have signed another deal after the Yankees were done too!
In fact he would have gotten MORE MONEY for those extra years than a guy approaching 38 when he is FA!
You think he is going to sign for as much as the Yankees promised him at age 37-38?
How much would YOU pay a 37 year old on the FA market? And for how many years?
He would have gotten one extra year at the rate a 32 year old ACE gets with the Yankees, he isn’t going to get even CLOSE to that once he goes FA from Philly unless Philly gives it to him which the Yankees could just as easily!
Why are you guys so interested in making the fact he took LESS money seem not true?
Thats what he did no matter what scenario you want to place at the end of the contract it applies just as equally to the Yankees!
I didn’t even mention the fact that if Philly got the picks in that cocamamie scenario X brought up that he would not get that 22+ Mil from the phillies!
He would have to get it someplace else in an entirely NEW DEAL!
THIS DEAL was for less money you want to talk about what he does on the NEXT deal fine when he makes that deal we can talk!
But the deal he DID take and is playing under now is for LESS money than the Yankees offered!
Thats a FACT and all these feeble attempts to say otherwise are bullshit!
Actually it’s 157>150. I know, I know that requires you to look ahead to the future but…
Only if the yankees are PROHIBITED from offerring arbitration!
Sorry you lose again!
He’s hurt because he couldn’t use there offer to get more from the Marlins. Lets face it thats what would have happened
True. and Reyes has a right to be a little perturbed with the Mets. Basically Wilpon with his remarks about Jose not getting “Crawford money” and “having everything wrong with him” signaled that we weren’t bidding or at least out bidding anyone if we were.
That cost Reyes. Having just one more team really in it would have gotten him 120 M I have to believe. I do find it so strange that no one other than Miami was in on him. They all know a hell of a lot more than anyone here but he seemed to me to be such a great fit for so many different teams. Fielder and Pujols were just pipe dreams for most teams and took away 2 good fits for Reyes in LAA and Det but SF? Needs offense desperately. Washington needs a SS, OB and a leadoff hitter. Boston may have a complete SS on the way or they may not. Seattle really needs what Reyes provides. Very strange. In any event Reyes sat and watched while everyone got paid; Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, Schneider, Schowenweiss, Mota, Pedro, El Duque, Alou, Bay, K-Rod, Perez, even his running mate got 20 M more (extra yr bought out) At some point Jose must have been wondering how can everyone else get paid so much and there’s nothing left for me?
Some of those guys got over paid when the Mets were just bidding against themselves and now the Mets instead of ponying up they actually depress Reyes market,
I’d be a little pissed off myself.
Excuse me but the Marlins DID up their bid which is why he gave up waiting for Sandy to make even a lowball offer!
that was after they went back to the mets though.
And what did those Mets offer again pray tell?
More useless drivel!
no more than 5 years and less than 100mill.
Mets made NO OFFER at all!
Show proof or stop lying!
Why does it matter what they offered him? I know, lets talk about Chris Caupano… he is no longer on the Mets and the Dodgers ponied up. Isn’t that discussion just as relevant? In fact our largest need right now is starting pitching so shouldn’t we be upset and complaining over that?
“Why does it matter what they offered him?”
Beause you are attempting to lie and say he took the better offer when he took the ONLY offer because we didn’t make one!
It’s about the validity of your attempts to lie!
You say he took the money, took the money compared to what? the NOTHING we offered?
God these arguments are so 2 months ago… Glad to see you are back today picking fights with every poster here.
No need to offer a contract when the agent says to play the game you need to come in at this level. Why spend the time to write up a legal contract when it’s not going to get signed. The Mets didn’t want to sign those years and couldn’t afford the amounts. That’s it, nothing more to it.
mmm guess you missed all the times you guys beat up on Bayonne for something that was argued two months ago!
Or how many times it has been tried with me!
I guess you guys don’t like a FAIR fight only ones where you try to handcuff your competition so they can’t do anything you guys do on a daily basis!
So Sorry you can’t take the crap you yourself dish out but thats how the game is played you know!
Throw a high hard one at me and my player I throw one back at yours!
Don’t like the practice then stop using it and we will stop as well!
But stop whining like a baby anytime your own tacticts get used against you!
IDK why you keep mentioning Bayonne I barely engaged with him for the same reason. He doesn’t try to comprehend what others write just keeps yelling back. It’s boring. I am surprised you haven’t just said you are a Phillies fan seeing you are hellbent on having the opposite argument on every thread. You are just a waste of time.
Because a few days ago you guys did this whole bully thing to him that you do on a daily basis and when he responded you all whined like babies for his fighting back!
I’m personally sick of it which is why I have been giving all of you crap on a daily basis just to show you how it feels!
The guy may have some old ideas on baseball but that doesn’t mean those ideas are worthless because someone figured out how to use a spreadsheet!
But you all try to say so!
And your posting attitude here is more bereft of facts than anything Bayonne posts and all about the bullying because you have 10 guys who do it and there is safety in numbers!
I’m sick of it especially when you guys have fewer facts than Bayonne’s WORST post!
And I decided to show the bullies exactly what BULLYING is all about when your on the oppsite side!
You saw my picture, You know I’m a Metalhead not some poser hair band type but a thrasher! And that we don’t run from fights we FINISH THEM!
So If you really want to get back to baseball talk and reasonable conversation feel free to start and you might be surprised how staying away from COUCH and CRAZY statements when your getting hit with facts in a debate might actually be returned once you bring the conversation back to baseball, Facts and NORMALCY!
We can disagree and not have an issue!
But when someone disagrees with you Donal and Xtreeme (I’ll leave jessup out as he has stayed quiet) you all run to make the person out tobe crazy, stupid or retarded because you can;’t produce the FACTS to make your argument!
Stop it and you will get better results and treatment from guys like me who DO have facts you guys try and twist when confronted with!
Have no idea what you are talking about with Bayonne and really don’t care. I imagine he probably got what he asked for. You are running around hijacking conversations and interjecting your venom. You demonstrate no ability or desire to listen what others have to offer, so you are a bore.
But I do respect this statement:
“You saw my picture, You know I’m a Metalhead not some poser hair band type but a thrasher! And that we don’t run from fights we FINISH THEM!”
Can’t really understand the revisionism about bayonne.
The ultimate internet bully and the one who always had plenty of people ganging up on anyone who didn’t abide by his doctrine 99.9%.
All the guy brought here was opinions and insults. He stifled intelligent fact oriented discussion about the Mets and baseball in general and sought to turn every discussion into one of OB%, Wright, Alderson or sabermetrics regardless of the intended topic.
He always sought to make things personal instead of reasonably discussing the issues facing this team. Ask yourselves who else would bring posters wives, girlfriends, daughters, employment status and a million other non related things into a discussion about baseball? Who else would tell someone they’d like to spit on them or to go rape their mother?
The guy should be tranqulized, rubberized and psycho analyzed.
Poor poor bayonne indeed. Give me a break.
Did he get booted from here? Looks like he changed his twitter handle the other day to his business and said he is taking a break from the Mets.
Yeah you seem to have a lot opf problems with what I talk about….
Hint: It isn’t what I’m talking about that is at issue it is personal problem of yours!
Tag – When someone beats up on you on a daily basis even when he is making a baseball point without insult, and the response is an INSULT
You made the bed you are laying in!
Bayonne usually starts off with a baseball point that is responded to with insults about him!
And when he responds you all then go crying about how he insulted you when the truth is you guys start 99.9% of the insulting first!
I have had my fights with him but note we never get to the insulting!
Why? Because I don’t start it!
You guys DO!
It’s an old internet tactic, don’t like what he says just push his buttons and make him mad so there is less thought and nothing left but bad behavior!
I have seen you start with him but mostly talked baseball!
But you gave the opening for the others to start thier crap!
They don’t just do it to Bayonne mind you they try the same crap with me!
I just am better at debating (probably because I’m older and more controlled) and don’t let them get away with it!
But I am personally SICK of the practice of making someone out to be crazy, Insulting him hoping to spark a violent reaction and then CRYING VICTIM when you get what you asked for around here!
And you know it is the 4 horsemen of the met Apocalypse who think everything is going GREAT that practice that method of denating the most!
When facts get in the way of their fantasy it’s right to the Your Crazy, Stupid retarded unrealistic NOT A MET FAN approach!
Well guess what I am not going to let them get away with it anymore!
Gonne shoot it right back at them until they see how it feels to play Internet Bully and incite a riot just to get away from the facts you don’t like!
I LOL’d at “controlled”.
Are you sick of calling someone middle school rhetoric just because they have a different view than you do?
are you, gary, Xtreem, Donal?
Cause all I;m doing is playing YOUR game right back at you and it appears to be working because now both you and Gary have started to see it isn’t nice and wishes it would stop!
Too bad you haven’t realized that it won’t stop until I see it stopped from you guys!
And I mean ALL of you!
Metise to the rescue!
What the hell are you even talking about?
So are you saying it’s OK in an adult discussion to call some one a skirtwearer or Sandy kisser or pull out the Sandy blow up doll and go to town on it? At what point did anyone else stoop to those levels when they were losing an argument? Calling someone irrational is much different than resulting to middle school rhetoric.
Not to mention that your could never really bully us to start with. I think Bay proved that. Eventually all of your middle school junk just flames out. There will always be more rational than irrational. Otherwise think of what kind of shape the world would be in.
Haha It’s the new crusade!
Dude get a clue. Last night I told you to cut it because of Carter. Today and days previous I am just bored with you because nothing of substance comes from being engaged with you. You just spout your ignorance and it’s BORING. Plus aren’t you supposed to be working?
Metsie is so full of shit. Now he’s claiming Bayonne is the victim here.Bayonne insults everybody and anybody who doesn’t agree with him. He hijacks every thread and turns it into an Alderson hate fest
. Now Metsie’s been getting hammered here for 2 days and he tries to say he’s only arguing with people to give them a taste of their own bullying tactics. Yeah okay Metsie. You guys don’t finish the fights,you change what people say and try and think you finish them.You never bring facts to the table you bring lies to the table. Now that I posted a thread from October 2010 when Metsie says he predicts it will take 4-5 years to rebuild he backtracks and says he’s just saying the non-sense that comes from his posts to see how guys like Jessep,Donal and Extreeme like it. LMAO. Metsie is such a fraud.
Poor Bayonne! Give me a break,he attacks new posters,old ones, and I’m sure future ones.That’s even funnier than Metsie backtracking.Bayonne is the victim here.It’s Extreeme,Donal and Jesseps faul that Bayonne went on a lunatic barage on twitter to Sandy Alderson. Those guys made him do it. I hear those guys made the Son of Sam do it too.
Yep X I have decided to EXPOSE you for the hypocrite you are!
Whining about Bayonne’s attacks after you tried to batter him first!
Pretty much the same tactics you play with everyone who dares show your facts for the bull they are!
Gonna try and get me banned too? Do your best my friend!
Yes TRS it all started when you idiots started calling anyone who thought the team was worse CRAZY!
Don’t like it when it’s done back at ya?
Awwwww Poowr baby!
See how it works when it’s aimed at you?
Get it now?
See how childish you sound when you do what you do?
See how childish you think I am being!
I AM IMPERSONATING YOU, GARY XTREEME and DONAL in all of your correspondence with Bayonne…
And it appears you don’t like it very much which is why all the whining from you happy hosers!
no last night you told me to cut it because you didn’t likie getting your treatment back at ya!
Didn’t stop you from trying to deal it though!
Get over yourself dude you don’t like this treatment then show me that you can post without using it and you might see me comply! Until then Your stuck with having to deal with the same shit you shovel!
yeah Fonzie I’m full of shit and your just an idiot who woulod blow up a team who missed the playoffs by a game!
Not even Bayonne woulod say or do something THAT stupid!
Lets see how you do on the voting I asked for!
Metsie, I’ve got no problem with you at all. We can disagree with each other and laugh about it. Do whatever you want, personally I’m not sure what there is in it for you but (or anyone) live and let live but If you feel the need to act or become a bully yourself go for it.
I just find it crazy to think that anyone would consider bayonne to be the “victim of internet bullying.” That’s just ridiculous. The guys the first one to start it and the first one to escalate it.
There are about 30 people that check out his comments when they stop in on a daily-weekly basis and the the unanimous verdict among them is that he’s some kind of demented anti social freak, especially the among women. We are constantly laughing our ***** off over things he says. One single girl always says “See. That’s all that’s out there. Now you know why I’m still single.”
Not saying that his personality is necessarily the same as his internet persona but that’s the way he chooses to portray himself so if he doesn’t care that he comes off as a buffoon who is anyone else to care?
Ultimately he’s run plenty of people off this website with his combination of personal insults and his irrational belief that anyone that disagrees with him must be silenced. He rarely brings anything worthwhile to the discussion and comes off as a self centered know it all that can’t communicate in a manner above that of an 11 year old.
If you feel the need to stick up for the bully cause he couldn’t take what he dishes out on a daily basis, go right ahead. I don’t mind. As far as I’m concerned you have that that right. Doesn’t change anything in my view.
I enjoy reading your ideas and I’m sure we’ll go at on occasion but I respect you and your opinion. That’s not something anyone would ever say about bayonne. He respects no one because he doesn’t respect himself. As an openminded but more traditional type fan and an advocate of building strength through the farm I don’t really fit into any of the groups here and I prefer to take it issue by issue without regard to “alliances” and yet I’ll stick up for someone being bullied when I feel it’s warranted. I just don’t see sticking up for the bully because he got a dose of his own medicine, but do whatever you fell is best
I got no problem with that, or you..
Peace.
Yeah I proved my point.They should’ve rebuilt the team when I said.We would’ve received a lot more back than 2 draft picks for Reyes and we would’ve capitalized on Wright and Beltrans value as young very productive players .Now what’s Wrights worth? We only capitalized on Beltran thanks to an awesome trade by Sandy. I wanted to dismantle a team that choked 2 straight years,big time choke jobs.You want to pat them on the back for choking because it was only by one game yet you disparrage anything Billy Beane accomplished because he didn’t win it all.
Yes I’m an idiot for trying to have a civilized debate with a bullshit artist that contradicts himself by speaking out of both sides of his mouth.You have been exposed by many others for the fraud you are and now your trying to turn the tables and blame everybody else for the flame wars except the ones who actually start them including yourself who resorts to insults when you lose a debate.
Poor Bayonne everybody picks on Bayonne. Take a look in the mirror.You’re the same guy who told Bayonne the only thing he ever managed was an erection when he told you he managed in that same thread where you were once again exosed for being a fraud.
Go ahead,get me banned,I won’t have to read your incessant whiny lying posts. I won’t have to read how you put words in other posters mouths because you can’t take losing a debate like a civil human being.
Ueah Fonzie you go right on believing that….
Oh thats not a truck coming for you about to kill you either it’s as AHHHHGHHHHHHH!
ROFMLAO!
You got tolled today!
You admitted you wanted to dismantle a team one game away from being in the playoffs!
Nothing else really need to be said!
You think your smart!
So do Pakleds!
Sorry Metsie but you just couldn’t be more wrong about that.
Every single time I wrote something he immediately followed it up with a complaint, not a complaint about anything specific, just a complaint in general that I wrote anything at all.
He doesn’t agree with what I said fine, no problem. Tell me what and why you don’t agree with it.
No way. couldn’t have a rational examination of anything because right to the insults cause he’s got nothin’.
He’s a high strung loudmouth with a persecution complex and the maturity level of 13 year old who has some sort of weird dislike of women.
Talking about peoples mothers, wanting to spit on people give me a break. He was only here for one reason and one reason only. To say things to people he wouldn’t dare say to their face and now he has to go start changing his names, handles and all sorts of things because he’s well known for all of the above reasons and it’s embarrassing to be unmasked as a 13 year old especially when someone is so stupid as to do the unmasking themselves.
tag just FYI, Have I given you the same treatment the other have gotten regarding Bayonne?
Was he doing things he should not have? YES!
WHY??????
Because it was done to him in numbers and daily and once down that path he did it all the time!
He was bullied like a punching bag by the same idiots attempting and failing miserably to bully me now!
And you got nailed with it after the guy was made that way!
There will be another Bayonne soon, They are trying to do what worked with him on me now Just look at this thread!
I’m trying to make a point, maybe I get banned , Maybe JoeD steps in Maybe we all get sent packing and the remaining good posters get the benefit!
I don’t care anymore I’m just tired of these posters gettin away with murder and thinking beating up on people who post on blogs is fine and dandy!
I’m turning up the heat! Note no fire has been lit under you by me!
So don’t think I’m missing who is the problem and who is not!
“99.9 % of the time other people started it first.”
What planet are you on?
Well I suppose if you mean people set the guy off by writing something he didn’t agree completely with I guess I can see your point but what is the purpose of the website then? Just to echo every single opinion some deranged lunatic has?
Love the whole “you guys made him do it too.” Plays into the whole emotional maturity of a 13 year old very nicely.
this one!
Go back 1 year…Hell go back last week and look at the posts Bayonne made that were not insulting to anyone and were all about baseball…
What was always the first reply?
INSULT!
So why would he ever stop?
What was his incentive?
Even when issued a warning and he talked baseball the CREW would just goad him into a slugfest anyway!
I know they are all tough guys when someone has their hands behind their backs But i have no shackles and will show them and BE them to show them what they did!
When was the last time an owner of any sports franchise said about a player in his walk season that he really wanted to resign “He thinks he’s going to get Crawford money, he’s not. He’s had everything wrong with him.”
Even if you want to claim that Fred thought his statements were off the record which is totally absurd since he was being interviewed by a writer for an article in a major magazine when he said those things, it still gives a clear indication of ownerships desire to resign Reyes.
When an organization decides they want a guy long term what do they do? They lock him up like Jeter, Tulo and Hansley.
Reyes watched everyone and I do mean everyone get paid far more than their on field contributions for most of them. He made an average 4 M a year during his 8.5 seasons here while a guy like Schowenweiss got 3.3 M a year. Alou 15 M for 100 games. Bay 16 M. Mota 2.5 M, Schneider 5 M. Wagner 11 M, K-Rod 12 M, Glavine 10 M, Putz 5 M, Santana 25 M, and on and on but nothing for the SS and leadoff hitter who did contribute quite a bit at a difficult position to find a top notch guy.
The owner gets a total pass here as if somehow he hires a GM and then is told to go away your not involved in the baseball decisions even when they affect the long term interests of his own team.
Business as opposed to baseball is has been the primary driving force behind all the moves we’ve made for over two decades now and that comes straight from the top down.
It is business reasons that brought Roberto Alomar and Mo Vaughn here just like it was business reasons we’ve spent at the very bottom of the MLB on the draft every year and business reasons we turned Wagners two #1 draft choices into Chris Carter and it was business reasons behind signing Jason Bay and it was business reasons behind letting Reyes go.
With the resources this team had If every decision here was just based solely on baseball reasons everything else would work out. Attendance, concessions, ratings, advertising everything.
Uhh did he get Crawford Money?
Did he hold out for that much?
If not then please tell me what your point was again!
Agee the bottom line is no other team made an offer because no other team wanted to pay over 100 million dollars for a guy to be sitting in the hot tub for a third of the season. One team made an offer and Jose is just as pissed at that as he is at the Mets.
The Marlins did apparently! LOL
We might have gotten him for under 100Mil!
We will never know now because Sandy REFUSED to make an offer!
Not even a low ball offer that he thought was worth it!
Can’t blame Reyes for taking the offer he had over us when we didnt’t give him one!
But you will try won’t you because god forbid we speak the truth around here!
Do you think it’s even possible that Sandy had a set price in mind for Jose and that Jose’s agents knew what that set price was and that Sandy had no intentions of going over that price because A) They could not afford to, B) They did not want to?
You actually think that Jose’s agents never called the Mets to see if they would match the offer? If they did not then his agents should be fired.
Sure I;m sure Sandy had a set price…
NO I don’t think he told the agent what it was!
Because he never made a real offer!
There were LOTS of things Sandy could have given him that didn’t cost more money!
No Trade clause for instance!
Too bad he never got to the stage of talking about what he might have to offer because he really didn’t want to offer a damn thing!
So you are saying that Reyes’ agent did a horrible job by not going back to the Mets and seeing if they would top the offer and that the Marlins bid against themselves.
No I;’m saying sandy had no offer he was willing to make and nothing his agent could do about that!
So you are saying his agent did a terrible job of creating a market for him and that he could only muster interest from one team and got lucky that they were willing to bid against themselves.
NO…in Sandy didn’t make an offer nothing his agent could do about it!
His agent obviously did a GREAT job if your right that he wasn’t worth 100Mil right?
But you can’t say he went for the money because he took what was offered!
He didn’t leave US we left him! With no choice but to go elsewhere!
I have no problem telling the truth. Sandy didn’t make an offer,see I told the truth.only one team made an offer,the Marlins and he didn’t sign until they made their 2nd offer which was over the 100 million Jose said he wanted. 29 other teams didn’t make an offer and that’s burning Jose’s ass right now. 29 other teams didn’t want to pay over 100 million dollars to watch a player sit in a hot tub while the team is playing baseball games. We have an educated baseball executive making decisions like we did when we had Frank Cashen who built the best team in franchise history.And he did it the same way Sandy is trying to do it.By developing his own players not paying someone for what they did for other teams.
Agreed, why is it not possible that Sandy decided that moving on from Reyes at that price was the right move?
because he should ave gotten a 1st round pick?
Should have gotten two or three prospects and not two measly 2nd rounders?
Because as Fonzie correctly pointed out before he went insane that if you didn’t want Reyes you should have traded him last year or signed him last offseason to a more reasonable contract than he got after winning the batting title?
You have valid points on signing him last off-season or trading him during the season. I see reasons against those things as well. However, you are missing the point about at that price. I don’t think any GM, as evident by the lack of interest from anyone besides the Marlins, thought Reyes would get 100M. Once that happen, thankfully, no way was Sandy matching that.
Again, what does all of this discussion even change? Reyes is a Marlin and it does not really matter who is to blame, it’s over.
Well you don’t think! Wow newsblast there! First thing you said I agree with!
This is the KEY STATEMENT to your problems with FACTS!
“I don’t think….” is as good as photo evidence to you and anyone who doesn’t buy it is crazy and insane!
Well you don’t think! Thats your problem not mine and the fact the Marlins gave him that much means squat because we MADE NO OFFER NADA ZILCH!
The original offer the Marlins made would have beat ours!
Beacause much like your “I don’t think” facts…it didn’t exist!
I went insane to try and communicate on your level.
He got a supplemental and a 2nd round pick. Spots in the draft where you could make up plenty of credible all Star teams from and if he had been traded……………………..
Oh no. I can just see the waving the white flags comments left and right and how prospects never make it and on and on and on.
Metsie — Your obstinacy reminds me of your colleague — Bayonne. BTW, he didn’t always start off with a baseball point. Often he was just unhinged. I haven’t come to the conclusion he always failed to understand an issue, and I haven’t come to the conclusion he was always just being obstinate. But between failure to comprehend and failure to be civil, he cornered the market. Hopefully you won’t follow that path. But if you do, you walk alone.
no he didn’t always start off with a baseball point but when he did it didn’t matter the response was always a bullying act!
Why should he stop and just talk baseball when the response is never baseball just insults?
Whats the motivation?
He made the same comments and same argument in EVERY thread, whether it be an interview with a prospect, a managerial quote, a count down to spring training, regardless of the thread they all turned into the same discussion and if you disagreed with him he used the same middle school rhetoric that you often use to try to make his argument hold more weight. He also never even attempted to use even one stat or fact to back up his arguments and would discredit any who did. Again, defending a classless guy like Bay is something that puts you and Alex who actually at times have common sense and decency in a bad light.
And you guys have done the same thing…
Your WRONG (no proof or feeble manipulation of facts)
Your Crazy (because we disagree)
Your Nuts (See above)
Your Unrealistic (See above)
Your not a Met fan (Desperate attemopt at insult)
Your mean (Used mostly on Bayonne after he took up the insult challenges above)
Your outdated (Used whenever sabers are questioned)
Blah Blah Blah!
You are just as guilty as he is!
You are right, you see me going into every post and making comments on how great Sandy is. I make them over and over and over and over and over and when someone disagrees with me I go tell them to put on their skirt and find their Omar doll. LOL, I had to laugh when I even typed that, thinking about something so childish even being uttered by an adult. As to your points, you are missing what is an insult and what is just discussion. Telling someone they are being irrational is not the same as telling them to go lick Sandy’s balls.
Ah another attempt to chage the subject!
It doesn’t really matter WHAT the argument was ever about, WHOEVER you argue with is arugments based on BULL and is only made to attack someone on the internet so you fell better about your pitiful useless NON TEACHING WHEN PAID self!
Why do we spend so much time talking about a former player?”
this was not ordinary player, this was the BEST player on the team, we’re in new york and the front office who came in pumping their chest about wanting franchise players and building a foundation of a team to win for years to come not even make an effort to sign the guy.. and yet, sandy apologists are in full on mode defending their lord.. it’s pathetic the way he’s LYING to the fan base and yet he still has more legion of fans and excuse makers than david wright..
It’s over now. It does not really matter whose fault it is that he is not here. I am sure there is plenty of blame to go around for all sides. Fact is the Mets decided that they could not or would not pay Reyes 100M and are going to move forward without him. Time for us to do the same.
As for players leaving and being good players? This isn’t the first time a great Met has left for greener pastures. Maybe we should spend all of our time talking/whining about them too?
Only one player has left the mets for $, darryl, but we all know why.. this was different.. the front office didn’t even try.. and it’s funny how you asking mets fans to move on, if this was david wright you and others would be b8tching and moaning like crazy..
Alex you still don’t understand me. If that last line was true then why have I been saying for months that I am ok trading Wright? I think I have written post on my blog as well as even trade proposals here involving Wright.
The one thing that you can never understand, maybe it’s the way we are built. I am a fan of the Mets first, I root for the name on the front and not the name on the back. The only reason I am a fan of the player is because of the name on the front. So regardless of who has to go if it is ultimately better in the long run for the name on the front, do it.
Also, what are you talking about? Only one player has left the Mets for money?
OMG, your one example is Darryl? The Mets were all set with Darryl at this point, he wore out his welcome. Even if he was available at league minimum, they wanted to coke the coke and attitude off the team.
A better on is Mike Hampton left for more money, and a better school system
Todd Hundley left for more money. El Sid, Viola left for more money. Players do it all the time…
Nix Hindley I forgot he was traded with the “Gooch” to LA. In the end it’s a consistent theme for players wanting to get more money in FA.
Key word, Left for more money, the difference with reyes was he was never even OFFERED money.. no contract or anything was set up for him… pathetic!!!
Alex you are at least semi-rational. Do you think Reyes’ agent knew what they Mets were willing to spend? Do you think that they would have not went to the Mets and asked before signing the contract? Do you think that if Reyes wanted to stay with the Mets he couldn’t have went to them as well? Do you think the Marlins upped their offer for no reason?
Bottom line is both sides decided to move on. I am sure Jose is upset that no one else even made an offer but he should be much more excited that evidently the Marlins bid against themselves and gave him a contract no one else would even touch.
I still can’t understand no one but the marlins going after Reyes. They probably made their last offer one that came with a quick decision as they wanted to have the deal done before the winter meetings started and that caused Reyes to cancel appointments with two teams.
Very very stupid on Washington’s part though. Their in go for it all mode right now and they have the young horses to back up and sustain whatever success they have this year on the way but no real good SS, terrible team OB% and no leadoff hitter and yet even knowing the Mets situation they go and sign Werth last year who plays the same position as their top prospect who’s in AA right now and don’t make an offer on the guy who fits perfectly and is in his prime.
Reyes would have been a good fit for Seattle and SF too and apparently SF talked about trading for him last year (Gary Brown?) Weird they wouldn’t have shown some interest .
Seems to me Reyes was right there to be had by anyone serious but there was just one team that was.
Bottom line is that the Mets could have sent him a box of chocolates and Reyes could have thrown the Mets a bone… neither side did. Time to move on.
This.
It’s done. P& C report in a couple of days. I’m getting excited to see what we can do going forward here instead of beating a dead horse over what did or didn’t get done in the past.
Agreed, why are we still not arguing over Vlad? Wouldn’t that be just as fun? Maybe Orlando Hudson? I think we should pick up the Marlins offer to Pujols over the Angels? That could be fun.
The O’Dog – hahaha. Almost as many debates on getting him, back in the day….
Metsie October 27, 2010 at 9:38 am
I conservativly predict that it will take 4 or 5 years before we actually see the vision Alderson has for this franchise.
By that time guys like Wright and Reyes will be at the contract crossroads. Do you give them big money contracts?
Guys like Beltran and Santana will be gone. (K-Rod I think is gone at the trade deadline!)
We will have to rely on a new young CORE at that point so I think it will work close to the same timetable as Cashen. A few quick moves via FA (which some will hate and some will backfire) to compete short term but you won’t see the actual plan come to fruition until 4 years from now.
I say give him the time! It’s been 20+ years, whats 4 more if it means we have a team thats in it every year?
WOW
You see w this guy is a fraud. Read all his comments from that thread. He thinks I’m new here because only started commenting a few weeks ago but I’ve been reading articles here for years and this guy does nothing but lie,make up facts,puts words in other peoples mouths,changes everything other people say and just looks to take the opposite side of whatever Donal,Jessep,Agee and Extreemicon and now you can throw us into that mix, say.
Too bad none of you actually read what I said but even if you had not enough brain cells to comprehend anyway!
Hahahahaha, oh TRS this is GOLD, please say this isn’t fake! This just puts a end to all of it. Peace is restored to the galaxy. I’m gonna cupy this and save it to my computer so I can pull it out once in a while. What article is it on so we don’t get the BS “It was taken out of Context” line.
salty I posted the link up above. It’s from OCT 27 2010. You can look up in the archives from all the threads back then and see Metsie actually talking with some sense.And how he and Bayonne had a few flame wars and now he’s defending him. Classic BS artist that Metsie.
Agree completely Metsie. Give ‘em the time. What’s 4 years when it’s already been 20.
couldn’t agree more.
Amazing.
You missed te part about competing in the meantime I suppose!
Here’s another one for the ever patient Metsie:
Metsie November 15, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Yep and many of the same folks want to trade Beltran, Wright and Reyes out of frustration and if that had happened they would all reverse themselves, complain or demand we go hire 3 or 4 MORE high priced FAs to take their place because they didn’t like being in last place of the division relying on all the young guys we got back in trade. I personally like that we have a guy who is a thinking man and is deliberate in searching for what he wants!
People (fans) in general have no clue what they actually want or how to get it.
They just know they didn’t like what happened, assigned blame arbitrarily, warranted or not and then once the blood started flowing went on a blood fever and wanted to get rid of the whole thing!
I remind them that it is a GAME, a bit of SUMMER ENTERTAINMENT meant to help us enjoy ourselves and while it is good to be loyal, devoted and enthusiatic about being a fan, if thier life revolves so much around one team that thier loosing is ruining their life, then the problem is not the team performance or management.
The problem is their life! Go out and try some other ways to find happiness while those who know what it takes goes and gets the job done!
The direction we were going in didn’t work.
We are now going in a different direction.
If anyone thinks a magic wand or a different name plaque on the GM’s desk is going to change all that overnight then the only thing that is certain, I’m glad we hired a guy who doesn’t believe in magic wands! He at least lives in reality!
It’s gonna take time and if it doesn’t then thats just gravy!
Maybe we aren’t so far away from competing. If thats the case it just proves that this team was hardly as horrible as many made it out to be!
Can’t see too many Met Fans “reversing themselves” Metsie.
Maybe just a couple.
Tag please post the statements that you feel are in conflict!
Go for it!
I will explain them each to you on how you either misread or took it out of context!
I’m game are you?
I’ll play it with you not the other posters!
Man this one is even better. Kind of hard to take him serious now. Just better off to realize he is just arguing for the hell of it.
Care to point to what I have said recently was in conflict with that?
Or is that too hard for you to do because it doesn’t really exist?
The team IS going in a different direction…
The direction is WORSE which the statements I made said I would be happy with the direction only if I saw the team GETTING BETTER!
Just because your stupid enough to think it’s better doesn’t mean I’m dumb enough to agree with you!
Point taken… lol.
i know your just patronizing….
But you seem to think I am calling for Sandy to get fired which I have never said!
Where the arguments between me and the cheerleaders are and what started it all is some of you have argued Sandy has made things BETTER, You want to pat him on the back for what he has done so far!
I’m not pissed at Sandy I’m pissed at those who aren’t willing to wait till he actually gets the team better to APPLAUD him!
That point I know you have missed completely!
But you guys can keep on playing your little games!
Your falling right into the trap!
When it slams on your neck you’ll see what I did and WHY I did it!
LOL And I was dead on rit wsn’t I….Tell me in all your reading did I suggest anywhere that was what SHOULD happen or what WOULD happen?
Read it again schoolteacher and then tell me why Bloomburg shouldn’t fire your ass for not being able to read and pretending to be an educator!
Please cut and paste the quote where I said he SHOULD do all that!
It was a prediction! One that was DEAD ON I might add!
Also note the part about Compete short term….
Are we competing?
You see thats the one part Sandy hasn’t done yet!
Too busy buying at KMart!
But you go right on thinking you got me for something I said!
Truth is I was almost dead on for ALL of it except the part that he might buy some FA to compete now!
He didn’t!
We aren’t competing for anything but the cellar!
[...] reading some of the comments in Joe’s post, I figured I would post this little quote by Jose so I could add in my two cents on the whole [...]
This is interesting. So even on a day when me or Bayonne dont even leave comments, the holy rollers still find someone to play Johnny on the Pony with. The self righteous always need someone to hate on or bully. Looks like you’re next Metsie. The self proclaimed peacemakers are always at war with someone it seems. It’s too bad, but I hope the ones in the ivory tower are watching and taking notes.
YES Maniac! Now you see what I am trying to do!
Show that even without Bayonne and without all the alleged “TROUBLE MAKERS” that are supposedly at fault it doesn’t matter if you start insulting or not!
The same few guys will just find SOME OTHER TARGET to play their little insult games with!
And I hope Joe is seeing this and taking notes!
All of the INSULTS that are going around here are coming from the same three or four guys who can’t deal with losing an argument and the fact that even without Bayonne to target they still play the same game just the TARGET changes!
I’m making it my mission to expose this truth to Joe and everyone else because we need to stop encouraging them or this board is done and no better than the other blogs where this shit goes on daily!
If I were you I’d just ignore them. It’s obvious what their goal is. These are just people from other sites coming here to bust chops. They do the same things me and bayonne were accused of doing. I havent bothered with their snark now for over a month. But I see they have their sights set on you now because they dont agree with you. And they have a pack mentality it’s not one, they all join in like ravenous wolves. I told Joe D. I was done with them, but that he needed to open his eyes. Me, you, Bayonne, etc. we were always here from the start and we never had any problems. These new people I never noticed them before now. Probably the usual snarkers posting with new names. Eric Simon sent his minions again.
Obvious yes!
Just bringing it up front and out where it can’t be ignored Maniac!