28
2012
Mets Starting Lineup and Rotation Taking Shape
An article by 
Terry Collins uses The Force to set rotation and lineup.
With R.A. Dickey selected to follow Johan Santana in the third game of Grapefruit League play, and Jon Niese slated to pitch game four, it looks like Terry Collins is leaning toward a regular season rotation that will look like this:
2012 Starting Rotation
- Johan Santana
- R.A. Dickey
- Jon Niese
- Mike Pelfrey
- Dillon Gee
Of course this could still change based on performance or an unforeseen injury, but that’s pretty much what we should expect when the Mets break camp.
Terry Collins has also announced that Andres Torres will bat leadoff and that Daniel Murphy will bat second during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN yesterday. He went on to discuss how the rest of the lineup would look and said he intends to bat Jason Bay in the fifth spot and that Ike Davis will be the everyday cleanup hitter in 2012.
2012 Starting Lineup
- Andres Torres – CF
- Daniel Murphy – 2B
- David Wright – 3B
- Ike Davis – 1B
- Jason Bay – LF
- Lucas Duda – RF
- Josh Thole – C
- Ruben Tejada – SS
Collins told Francesa that he doesn’t want to put any additional pressure on Ruben Tejada and that he will not use him in one of the top two spots and prefers to let him bat low in the order. I’m sure that will change if he hits like he did last season and Torres doesn’t work out at leadoff, but it’s still early so lets see how it plays out.
Agree? Disagree? Give us your thoughts…
About the Author: Joe DeCaro
I'm a lifelong Mets fan who loves writing and talking about the Amazins' 24/7. From the Miracle in 1969 to the magic of 1986, and even the near misses in '73 and '00, I've experienced it all - the highs and the lows. I started Mets Merized Online in 2005 to feed my addiction. Follow me on Twitter @metsmerized.
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looks pretty good to me, can’t think of anything i would change there with the exception if johan doesn’t make it out of spring training
How about a straight up Lefty/Righty Lineup?
1. Daniel Murphy – 2B
2. David Wright – 3B
3. Ike Davis – 1B
4. Jason Bay – LF
5. Lucas Duda – RF
6. Andres Torres – CF
7. Josh Thole – C
8. Ruben Tejada – SS
We really don’t have a traditional #3 hitter and of the guys we do have here Wright gets OB better than Davis, Duda or Bay. Belittle that all you want but I’d prefer a two run shot over a solo blast any day.
If Tejada is replicating his 2011 offense he’ll be slid into lead off in front of Murphy and that’s our best 1-2 but to ask Tejada to start out replacing Reyes on both ends is a little much to ask so it’ll be when and if he’s reaching base often enough to be given that responsibility.
Which is why they are starting the year with Torres as the lead-off hitter and Tejada further down in the lineup. Torres is the only one on the team with lead-off experience.
Can’t argue with you on that T Agee. I was looking at it with what you said in mind that Wright gets OB better. Murphy/Wright getting on base better than Torres/Murphy and Davis in the 3 hole with his power gets off to a similar start to last year can do some serious damage in that 3 spot.
I basically moved everyone up 1 spot from 2 to 6 that Joe listed and dropped Torres behind Duda.
It’s a credible option MNJ. Either way I really like the idea of Murphy hitting behind Tejada even if you have the pitcher in between and Wright at #2 is an interesting idea.
On another topic: If you have yet to see it you have to check out Byrdakamania. LMAO.
http://twitter.com/#!/matthewcerrone/status/174545171306917889
Bay hitting cleanup?
Uh, I don’t think this will be considered for a second.
NORTH, MURPHY DOESN’T HAVE A 3rd GEAR WITH A PROPENSITY FOR CREATING A VAST # OF DOUBLE PLAYS, I FEAR YOUR LINEUP WOULD ACCOUNT FOR TOO MANY VACANT BASE SITUATIONS FOR THE 3,4,5,6 SLUGGERS, UNLESS THEY TRY A BIT OF CHACANERY BY REASSIGNING GEREN TO 1B COACH & GOODWIN TO BENCH DUTIES THUS THEY MAY CATCH A FEW OPPOSING PITCERS PANICING WHEN GLANCING TO 1B & SEEING A #7 JERSEY THERE(LMAO)
That looks like the most traditional lineup anyway.
still batting Wright 3rd after years of it NOT working. They just don’t learn so expect the same results..and putting Tejada down in the lineup is just dumb
I think eventually Tejada will be moved up but having him bat lead-off and play SS, don’t you think that would be a lot of pressure?
Also, while I understand your point on Wright, it’s not like batting him 4th is ideal either. He has had lots of success batting 3rd and hopefully having a productive Ike behind him will benefit him.
I honestly would switch Tejada and Thole. Also you could switch Duda and Bay pending the match-up.
Depends on if thole is hitting some doubles. Do you want him as the guy trying to pick up the runners from the middle of the order, or hitting behind Tejada to try and double him home?
At least if you put Thole 8, the lineup does not have to change when Nickeas gets in there…
I think Thole’s game is built more on patience anyway so I like him better 8th. Also, unfortunately their SLG% was about the same…
So Terry and Sandy are dumb, just like Willie and Jerry and Omar were dumb. Plausible? No. Maybe you’re barking up the wrong tree. Maybe you want Tejada to bat third. LOL
While I understand your point about calling a manager dumb for his lineup (speaks to hypocrisy) at least he is discussing baseball. He has a valid point on Wright as he might no longer be the best hitter in the lineup and usually that is what you want for 3rd. However, just as we have no lead-off hitter we don’t really have a #3 hitter either.
If only Murphy wasn’t so slow-footed, he be the perfect leadoff hitter, and even with the lack of speed and occasional base-running gaffe which was also common with Reyes and Pagan, Murphy still might be the team’s best leadoff hitter even if he doesn’t fit the description of an ideal leadoff hitter. Good luck navigating through that run-on sentence.
Honestly I don’t see Murphy as a lead-off hitter. I think he is better served as a run producer instead of creator. I think if you can ever find a place for him to play in the field consistently he would be a better #5 hitter or in an ideal lineup #2. Maybe like a pre/post roids Brian Giles.
And andres torres is??? based on what? he’s fast?? then why the hell we didn’t sign juan pierre then? he’s fast and don’t suck as much as andres torres… SMH…
I never said I LIKED Torres there. Honestly I hope by May it’s Tejada.
Honestly i can see Murphy hitting 3rd in the lineup. One of best averages last yr in the league and got the ability to get on base and smash a homer every once in a while. Here’s my ideal lineup:
1. Andres Torres
2. Ruben Tejada
3. Daniel Murphy
4. Ike Davis
5. David Wright
6. Jason Bay
7. Lucas Duda
8. Josh Thole
9. Pitcher
That’s my line up-good left/right mix and you keep Thole and Rubin separated…It really depends on how Tejada hits during the season.
I dig it. I said last year Murphy should bat third. The only thing I don’t love is clogging the bases so much. I’d begin with Wright 4th and Duda 5th and see how everyone responds.
Don’t like it. Torres and Tejada getting the most AB’s on the team. Being able to throw a LHP against Murphy and Davis in the 7th, 8th or 9th. Automatic K’s back to back against RH relief pitchers with Wright and Bay and then another LHP if need be to neutralize Duda and Thole.
Sure you can PH Hairston and Nickeas for Duda and Thole and PH again in the 9th spot but now your getting into dangerous territory.
Sorry, don’t like it.
Well, that just means we look at what we mean by “ideal leadoff hitter”. Is speed a requirement? Obviously OBP should be. If the guy is going to hit 50+ XBH, will that make up for a lack of stolen bases?
I think the Mets have a chance now to show some creativity. Let guys establish their own roles instead of being slaves to conventional thinking that may not apply to them.
I hate to see Bay hitting in front of Duda, but I assume it is done for L/R purposes (so as to not bunch the lefties).
other than that, it looks like what I expected, and probably the best you are going to do with the current mix of guys.
I could see them going back and forth pending the SP but unless Davis proves to be able to hit LH pitching you can’t have a LH following him. Too easy for the other manager. Also, perhaps a productive Duda can get Bay some better pitches.
I just hope they both deserve to be hitting fifth. If so, the lineup is going to be doing pretty good, and be deep.
It’s like a pitching staff though. Just because you are better doesn’t mean that you will slot in the correct location.
Hey get creative here.
Tejada, Bay, Murphy, Davis, Wright, Duda, Thole, Torres
If Tejada can replicate a .360+ OBP out of the 1 hole (probably not an easy thing to do), given the lack of power, he probably makes sense to put up there. Of course, putting aside the whole presure/expectations part of the equation…
Didn’t he hit 8th a lot? SOmetimes that inflates their OBP, since they pitch around that guy at times (say man on 2nd 2 outs early in the game) to get to the pitcher. He did have 3 IBB (10% of his total BBs), and you have to figure he won’t get a lot of them hitting leadoff.
I am fine just keeping him in the 8 hole, working counts and clearing the pitcher.
It would really be a help for Torres OB to get that #8 hitter boost but a lot of that boost comes with two out and the pitcher up so it’s not as worthwhile as it appears.
Tejada does have a real short swing along with a good eye that should allow his OB to play well at any spot in the order and having Torres-pitcher-Tejada-Murphy with HR threats behind them can really play well for us in the middle of the game.
It would really be a help for Torres OB to get that #8 hitter boost but a lot of that boost comes with two out and the pitcher up so it’s not as worthwhile as it appears”
So, basically you’re ssaying how meaningless OBP is???????
Obviously getting on base is meaningless….
LOL.
As to Tagee’s point it is double sided in the NL. While you won’t get as much run production from having the #8 hitter walk, it does serve an important role in clearing the pitcher for the next inning.
Now back to meaningless OBP, there are spots in the lineup where OBP in my opinion are not as important. Example to me the #7 spot. That is a spot where a guy like Frenchy can be an benefit as I would rather that person be someone who can get the runner home at whatever cost. You also don’t have the #7 hitter leading off an inning that much as proven by stats.
Unless there’s 2 men on base no team or pitcher will be afraid to face andres “244 Career hitter” torres… Trust me…
Where did I say they would be afraid to face Torres?
The point was about OBP.
How’d you come up with that Alex?
What I said is OB while being skewed a little bit in favor for NL #8 hitters doesn’t really result in as much of benefit as it does elsewhere in the lineup.
Except of course in the NL the benefits of clearing the #9 spot. I guess in the AL for a lot of teams there is benefit in clearing the #9 spot as well.
I look at it as OBP for an 8 hole guy that isn’t looking to swing (say, Castillo) is not likely to translate if they move to the top of the order, where they will never be worked around.
Heck, last year Tejada had 3 IBBs. Not sure if they came when he was hitting 8th, but I would certainly lean that way.
hitting 1/2, pitchers are more likely to come right after the weak sticks, aring them to swing, since they don’t have the pitcher up next.
Hate Bay at 2nd. Ideally I’d go:
Tejada
Murphy
Wright
Davis
Bay
Duda
Thole
Torres
At least until we know for sure Davis and Duda will hit leftys. If that were to establised for both of them
Tejada
Murphy
Davis
Wright
Duda
Bay
Thole
Torres
could be considered.
This would be my lineup:
1. Tejada
2. Murphy
3. Davis
4. Wright
5. Duda
6. Bay
7. Thole
8. Torres
I think eventually you might see that but I don’t think they want to bat Tejada lead-off to start the season. Also, I am not a big fan of Wright in the 4 spot but…
If Johan is healthy, those rotation spots 1-5 are what I expected to see.
I’m sure this lineup won’t be set in stone. It’s going to be fluid out of necessity – unless by some miracle everyone is having a career year.
Heck, LaRussa had a total of 126 lineups he trotted out there during last year’s championship season. So I wouldn’t get too hung up about the lineup this early. Too many unknowns yet.
Seeing andres torres as a leadoff and somehow david wright STILL batting 3rd make me wanna throw up….
I understand your point actually on both but unfortunately the team does not have a traditional #3 or #1.
Go ahead and throw yours out so we can pick it apart.
At this Point i’d have wright 5th andres torres 9th…. as the #5 hitter there’d be less pressure on wright to produce, he can slide back where he belongs, he can pile stats there without the pressure of being the Clutch guy,we have seen what pressure does to him, especially is big spots, i’d have Ike davis and Duda 3rd and 4th, and please, don’t give me that CRAP about having lefty back to back, the phillies had 3 LEFTIES back to back to back and made the playoffs those 3 straight years, so please spare me that crap, also, andres torres even making the team is a disgrace, the guy is a BUM, to have him bat leadoff is an atrocious move, the man is a career 244 hittter, and please, DO NOT GIVE ME THAT ohh, if we get the 2010 torres, guess what, he’s a career 244 HITTER!!! what you think most likely will happen?? another lucky year at 270 or his career avg of 7 years???
Good god I ask for a lineup and you give me more middle school rhetoric and a jumbled up mess.
Let’s see if I can put this together.
X
X
Davis
Duda
Wright
X
X
X
Bum
Also while you are correct, polished hitters you can get by with LH back to back. However, Ike has yet to prove he can hit LH pitchers. Thus having Ike and Duda back to back is very risky and susceptible to LHRP until they develop.
plus until Wright proves he is hitting like it is 2007 again, I don’t care to see him and bay back to back either!
Ok, TRJ, here’s the lineup then:
Murphy
Tejada
Davis
Duda
Choker, errr ,Wright
Bay
Thole
Pitcher
Bum…
See here is my problem as to why it’s almost impossible to have a serious discussion with you. We know your feelings on Wright but do you have to look for any place possible for a cheap shot? It just starts up the same debates again.
Now back to baseball…
Murphy leading off has it’s merits but I think in this lineup you would rather have him in a place where he can drive in runs. Also what benefit does it have for him to bat 1st and then Tejdada 2nd?
Also again, while you the astute baseball mind don’t care about two LH in a row other managers will until Davis proves he can hit LH pitching. When that happens you can hit Wright 5th all you want. Otherwise hitting those two back to back and then Wright and Bay back to back is about as week of an order of those 4 as you can get.
Again, it’s your opinion, i gave mine, good for you… you and i know wright batting 3rd is a mistake, time after time we’ve seen that is not his comfort zone, but you keep riding his you knwo what, good for you, he doesn’t impress me and having him in pressure situation and FAILING time after time only damage his value and cost us many wins…
Hmm, so while I above have said that having Wright bat 3rd is not ideal and we lack a #3 hitter somehow you go right back to middle school rhetoric. Seriously because my opinion is different than yours and you can’t back yours up you resort to “riding his you knwo what”. Do you not realize how childish and pathetic that makes you sound?
actually you’re the one that’s being pathetic. You trail people responding to their opinions and when yours is questioned you acquire an attitude.
You’re baiting alex just like i have those other losers who ALWAYS trail me try to bait me now.
You are still running around fighting the battle you have already lost. Trust me Alex does not need your help and is actually brought down by your presence just like this blog.
You’re the one who wanted my lineup, i gave it to you then you BIT** AND MOAN about it, which is it then!?!?!? if you want my opinion and i give it to you then act like an adult and don’t insult me ok, if you’re gonna bit** about it then don’t ask for it..
So debating a lineup and giving you reasons backed up by rational thought? If you notice above I mentioned a couple of different lineups. One serious and one just for the hell of it. You think I would be upset if someone used logical baseball thought to pick the hell out of it?
Good thing Reyes is gone otherwise we’d have two chokers, right?
Alex, just based on their respective talents, I would hit Tejada 1 and Murphy 2. That way, I could see a lot more cases of murphy on 2nd with a run in vs. murphy on 2nd and Tejada on 1st (if they both get on in the first inning). I just see Murphy as more of a run producer and doubles machine, but not a particularly high OBP guy.
and in the middle, I have no problem with Wright 5th, but I really don’t want to see Wright and Bay back to back if they are still both racking up Ks. I am not that worried about the 2 lefties (Duda I expect to hit LHP fine), and if Ike is getting the job done vs. LHP too, then no issue really.
Oh, the other thing your line up does is put the slower guys (ike and duda) in front of the guys that still have wheels (bay and wright).
2 through 6, if everyone hits to their best ability could be a dangerous line up with power. Pitching staff well, whats the old expression ” a wing and a prayer” seems appropriate. Except I have a funny feeling MR Harvey just could be our number 5 starter to start the season moving Gee to the bullpen or in a trade. At the least he will be here by the All Star Break. He seems to get it, he approach is to make the team this spring. Everything I have read, his ability to adjust, and his willingness to work hard, coupled with his drive. I truly see him making an impact asap or, that could just be my hopes getting too high..
I would expect Pelfrey to be gone long before Gee.
Reyes
Murphy
Wright
Ike
Bay
Duda
Torres
Thole
Oh wait, the mets are a small market team, so we dont have reyes…. ::sigh::
Actually no, it’s called debating. You gave a lineup, of course inserting a needless potshot in the process and then I in turn did exactly what you did to Terry’s lineup.
Pathetic would be again where because I differ in opinion I have to be ridding someone.
Actually, my wise and very esteemed friend and blog leader, debating utterly closed-minded people with middling baseball knowledge is perhaps the MOST pathetic thing on display here.
Point taken.
I don’t think the Mets can go wrong here simply because they can’t really go right here. There are no prototypical leadoff hitters on the roster. Probably the best guy suited to hit leadoff (OBP + speed) is Wright, and obviously he can’t hit there, but therein lay the bigger problem. I think ultimately Tejada would be better suited for the leadoff spot, but only if he keeps developing the way he did last season.
Torres is the best option by default until we know more about Tejada. There are far more Tejada detractors than there are supporters as far as his ability to start and play every day on a contender, and if the people on that that side of the fence are right, a lot of pressure will be on Torres to return to his 2009-2010 numbers. If you ask me, one of the biggest Tejada supporters out there, I’d rather put the pressure on Torres the vet than Tejada the 21-year-old right now. In May, after 100 PAs, we’ll know more and adjust accordingly.
Also, Bay hits 6th. In every lineup.
can Bay hit the pine instead when there is a RHSP?
Bay can hit the bricks as far as I’m concerned.
I actually think that Tejada will have a much better OBP than Torres at season’s end. I also would bat Thole eighth. I cannot stand Thole.
WHY ARE THEY NOT INCLUDING JUSTIN TURNER? He was awesome last year and can be HUGE for us?!?!
I can’t believe Santana will be ready to pitch, just doesn’t seem to make sense. Didn’t I read reports just a month ago that Santana would not be ready until mid-late May earliest??
As far as the lineup goes, we need to letghen out the lineup… #6, #7 #8 are wimpy weak..
Put Murphy #3
Ike Davis #4
David Wright #5
Jason Bay #6
That leaves the #2 position.. Josh Thole has to hit #2
This exposes Andres Torres but we have to legthen out the lineup otherwise why throw a strike to #5 or #6??
I would walk Jason Bay every day of the week to face Duda
And I would certainly never give Duda a pitch to hit with thole and Tejada following him.
But with Wright #5, Bay #6 and Duda #7 more good pitches to hit for our most productive hitters
I’m not buying Collins’s projected starting lineup. I wouldn’t put Wright in the #3 spot to start the season, unless he’s like a house of fire coming out the gate. I have disliked Wright batting 3rd for about 2-3 seasons now. In fact, I’d run whether one of these 3 (hypothetical) lineups come Opening Day….
Lineup A
1. Tejada- SS
2. Murphy- 2B
3. Davis- 1B
4. Duda- RF
5. Bay- LF
6. Wright- 3B
7. Nieuwenhuis* -CF
8. Thole- C
*-I’m gonna leave Torres out of my projected lineup because I’m one of the people that think Kirk can exceed expectations and open Collins’s eyes enough to win the job out of ST. I still see Torres as a bat off the bench, pinch runner or for defensive purposes.
Lineup B
1. Tejada- SS
2. Thole- C
3. Murphy- 2B
4. Davis- 1B
5. Duda- RF
6. Wright- 3B/Bay- LF (doesn’t matter to me who goes where between these two in the #6-7 spot)
7. Bay- LF/Wright – 3B
8. Torres- CF
Can’t see this one happening, but Collins could possibly jumble a lineup like this somewhere in the season.
Lineup C
1. Tejada- SS
2. Nieuwenhuis- CF
3. Duda- RF
4. Davis- 1B
5. Murphy- 2B
6. Bay- LF
7. Wright- 3B
8. Thole- C
I could see Lineup A happening this season, but it wouldn’t bother me if it transcends to Lineup C (keep your fingers crossed for Wright & Bay’s bats showing up this season.)