27
2012
Mets Source: Would Take Four Zack Wheelers To Trade Wright
An article by Craig Lerner
Yesterday, David Wright spoke with reporters about the $100 million extension Ryan Zimmerman agreed to with the Nationals, a deal that some are now calling the baseline for similar caliber third basemen in the game.
Wright said has no intentions of approaching the Mets about an extension and will wait for them to come to him instead.
“I haven’t even discussed that with my agents, and obviously the team hasn’t discussed it with my agents or me,” Wright said. “I think that it might occur in the future. It might not. I don’t know. I’m not really sure the protocol, but I would assume the team pretty much approaches the player.”
But according to Andy Martino of the Daily News, the team wants Wright to be the face of the franchise though neither side are thinking about a contract extension,
“We think of him as a special player, and it would be great if it worked out where he stayed here,” one team insider, told Martino.
One executive familiar with the clubs thinking said it would take “four Zack Wheelers” for the Mets to trade Wright.
Wright will earn $15 million in this final year of his six-year, $55 million contract, but there is a $16 million club option for 2013 with a $1 million buyout which he can void if he is dealt.
One thing a reader noted in the comments was their age. Zimmerman is 27 years old, while Wright is 29 and will be 31 when he becomes a free agent after the 2013 season if the Mets hang onto him.
Original Post 2/26
The Washington Nationals have agreed to a six-year extension with third baseman Ryan Zimmerman. The deal is worth $100M over six years, as reported by Jim Bowden, and includes a team option for a seventh year at $24M.
Zimmerman, who’s current deal was set to expire after next season, agreed to a deal with a team seventh year option that could take it to 2020.
Zimmerman released a statement that read:
“all along, all I’ve wanted is to be able to stay with the Nationals, which I consider my hometown team, and help the franchise become a winner while also being compensated fairly. I’m from Virginia, I was drafted by the Nationals and I’ve seen this organization make great progress since I signed here. I want to see it through to the ultimate goal of winning a World Series.”
You know damn well Sandy Alderson and David Wright were dialed into these very public and sometimes tense negotiations. I wonder what thoughts are going through their minds this morning?
About the Author: Craig Lerner
I'm a data analyst and researcher for a leading news agency who loves life and is hooked on the Mets. I love following the Amateur Draft and have a particular fondness for the Mets Minor Leagues who I follow each day. Give me a cold beer, a summer day, and a Mets game, and I'm good to go.
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NL East Standings
| Team | W | L | Pct. | GB |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Braves | 42 | 30 | .583 | - |
| Phillies | 35 | 37 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Nationals | 34 | 36 | .486 | 7.0 |
| Mets | 27 | 40 | .403 | 12.5 |
| Marlins | 22 | 48 | .314 | 19.0 |
Last updated: 06/19/2013
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Nice knowing you David Wright ….but….The Wilpons aren’t having money problems and have decided to go in another direction
All good things must come to an end. It was nice knowing you David.
what’s everybody’s over/under on how long DW remains a met? 2 months for me.
After his option is picked up next off season.
Wright is gone……Lets Go Mets….Maybe they should rename the team ! Wilpon’s Blunders…perhaps?
Well I’m a Die hard fan but…I’m not a chump….I’m a champ and If they give up on Wright and can’t sign him long term then they gave up on me as fan and Lets go Red Sox…..
So you’re not a Mets fan your a Wright fan? That’s pathetic dude go root for the Sox now save yourself the pain no one likes a quitter “Champ.” Champions don’t give up and change teams when things are bad, that is what chumps do. So you may want to reasses your self glossing.
Welcome to the world of the Pirates fan. My daughter=in=law is one. What is it, 15-20 losing seasons in a row?
Pops
The name on the front will always be more important than the name on the back.
If it is in the Mets best interest to move on from Wright (be it because they can’t afford him, he is no longer producing at the required level or they get a monster offer), the front office is obligated to do so.
I would say at minimum wright has to be 2 years shorter, since he is 2 years older than Zimm.
other than that, the last few years have been very similar (offensively), and 2010 was almost identical, right down to the time missed.
I don’t see either guy surviving at 3B at age 35, but there is always a chance. and no chance Wright is going to be up to it at 37-38 already having back issues.
now, 6 years total (4 on top of the 2 he is under contract for?) that makes sense. Take them out to the same age at contract end. Basically, wright is already getting the annual $$ in 2012 and 2013 that Zimm just signed for.
I can see the Mets extending hmi, keeping in mind that they likely are keeping him anyway through the option year, and an extension would kick in when there is no one else signed for big $$ (Bay and Santana will be gone).
The bigger question is though (and I worry about this) if he will be worth the money, to anyone (forgetting for now about home grown, face of franchise). Just, do you think he will be worth 17mill or so for many years to come?
I think you mean 2011 were identical. 09 and 10, Zim’s had the edge. Wright’s been a little more durable. I think Wright will have to bounce back somewhere in between his 08 and 10 season to get an extension. He’ll have to prove he’s not in decline.
yes, that was a typo. I meant 2011.
plus, the 2 years before that were Zimms best, and they still were not close to Wright’s big years. More like 1/2 way between his 2nd tier (2009-2010) and his prime years (2006-2008).
so, that also leads me to believe that if wright rebounds just a tad he will be every bit as good or better than Zimm, since he has proven that he can be.
Are we all taking it for granted that given the opportunity, Wright would even want a contract extension with the Mets?
Depending on the direction the team is going in and if Wright remains healthy, has a good year, they pick up his option….Wright might not even want to sign here if we’re still occupying the cellar with no hopes of that turning around anytime soon.
my guess, he would be happy to. For a couple for reasons.
1st of course is being a fan, feeling attached, liking NY, all that touchy fealy stuff that means more to the fans (and goes out the window when Benjamin starts talking).
but from a very practical standpoint, if the Mets broached the subject now, he likely listens because even he must wonder if he is ever going to be a start again What if his back continues to be an issue, or he just can’t hit good pitching anymore, and by the time he hits FA the chance of a huge payday is gone?
Not that it sounds like he needs the money (hell, vitamin water took care of that!) but stil nice to have LT security.
I agree with Any. I think Wright would love to play his entire career here,judging by everything he says.This is a big year for him.
This is more like the Reyes situation should have been handled.
Spring training 2010 Reyes had two years left (1+ option) on his deal just like Zimmerman does right now. That’s the time you approach a guy if you really want to retain him other. Otherwise you run the risk of ST deadlines and really after beginning the season what’s the point? The player has risked injury through the last few years so why not risk it for 6 more months.
And don’t discount how it must feel to see them go out that year and bring in yet another big money guy, at the exact time they should have been talking to you, assuming they really wanted you, and see that guy not play well and then have the Club not have any money left over for you despite having already played very well here and being underpaid while you were.
Shame Reyes wasn’t the priority in ST 2010 instead of the potential attendance boost that could be realized if Bay did here what he did in Fenway.
tag — Jose had a non-productive 2009 season, appearing in only 36 games and stealing only 11 bases. Of course there were reasons he was at a career low. In May 2009, Reyes went on the DL with a calf injury. He was expected to be back a month later but when rehabbing the took himself out of an extended spring training game. An MRI showed a tear, which Reyes himself said was different than the initial injury. Then Reyes had yet another injury, a torn right hamstring, while rehabbing in August. Why would a team make long range plans with a guy whose game depended on speed but who was having problems with his legs?
Couldn’t agree more Des.
Agreed, not only that but Jose was on record saying he was looking forward to testing FA.
agee i agree with you on this and i expressed the same thing, but omar DID sign him for 4 years at a way cheaper price based on his production it was pretty good and cheap.. but sandy alderson should’ve locked reyes up as soon as he came in , but instead he wanted to see how he did, well, he had an MVP type year, won a batting title and despite him being a little hurt again, his season was one to remember, Sandy is the one to blame here, not omar minaya or reyes, but, what’s done is done, despite of alderson i will root for this team although i know from heart they are not going anywhere
An update on this post. Michael Baron says Wright said he will not approach the Mets about a contract extension – rather, he will let them come to him.
http://www.metsblog.com/2012/02/26/david-wright-will-not-approach-mets-about-extension/
16 million per for zimmerman? what? he’s no jason bay!
Let Wright go. He whiffed at the plate too many times in key situations. I won’t miss him if he walks and the Mets could use the money to rebuild. When I see him bat I don’t expect much. He is not the face of the Mets to me anyway and he lost me as a fan. We can finish last with him or without him. I don’t consider him any big deal anymore. I used to but he is a slug at the plate in key situations. I know his fans will come back with all his statistics but I saw with my own eyes on MLB.TV games to convince me that he is nothing special.
Zimmerman’s a solid player but thats alot of coin.
Wright is a goner. 30M payroll here we come!!!
David is a solid 3rd baseman. A superstar, maybe not, but definitely not one’s average player.
Jose Reyes is a solid shortstop. A superstar, maybe not due to injury, but definitely not one’s average player, even counting injury. Neither was the one who lead the team to the promised land which made them no different than the 23 others who played along with them. And neither one has turned thirty, either.
Bottom line: the left side of the Mets infield was one of the better ones in the league and was not so old . But none of that mattered in the equation. There was no negotiation to attempt to retain one and probably won’t be for the other as well.
If that is due to the owners being in a financial bind, then let Sandy stick to the company line about what $70 million in losses can do to an organization Whether we believe it or not, it’s better than hitting us with that re-building scenario. When a team like the Mets with the players it has, fails to live up to its expectations, one disposes of the poor baggage and looks for better quality to replace it. There is a middle ground in which they don’t give away the minor league or demolish the whole team altogether – unless the issue is indeed one of finances which leaves them with no middle ground.
Thank you zimmerman’s agent… the market all of the sudden went up for 3rd baseman, and, let’s be honest here, zimmerman is good and all, but he’s not $120 million good.. at this point GM’s are asking themselves, hmmm, who i rather pay $18 million for an OK player or pay $15 million for an ok player?
with that being said, he’s gone either way, he saw what happened to reyes and is seeing the sh*** job the GM is doing, he’s as good as gone.
btw, is possible, that if the wilpons don’t fix their financial issues, this team might have back to back season of $50 million shedding… bringing the payroll to $40 million or so..
“Mets Source: Would Take Four Zack Wheelers To Trade Wright ”
I read this as well, my first thought was 4 single A pitchers with “high ceiling”????
you would be surprised how much you can get for those guys though.
not that it would be 4 A ball Sps. But if they could get one of them, a C prospect with upside, and a couple others it would have to qualify as a big haul.
Four top 50 prospects? Four top 5 in organization prospects?
LOL, no team in hell is trading that anyway.
TRS, yeah, we can end up with 4 justin smoaks.. or 4 paul wilson.. Roll eyes.. talk to me when they up here SHINING ok.. until then.. BA can shove it..
You still don’t realize what that means to an organization as a whole just to have them be that high ranking, it’s not just about BA. Who do you think the Phillies used to trade for Halladay and to trade for Lee the first time? Having depth in the minors gives you more darts to throw at the board or more to offer in a trade.
This, in a nutshell.
4 single A pitchers would fit into the Mets budget (well, maybe if they didn’t have to feed them).
Seriously, trading Wright makes sense for the franchise right now anyway once he re-establishes some value. You buy yourself huge salary relief and slide Murphy to 3B while opening up 2B for Havens or Valdespin. It’s not like it would create a HUGE hole that couldn’t be filled. Theoretically that money saved could go towards a capable outfielder or another starting pitcher, but I have a feeling instead it would just wind up in the pockets of the Wilpon’s lawyers.
to me, there is a legitimate BB question involved (putting aside the whole team finances and face of the franchise diversions).
that is, will he be healthy/strong enough, and productive enough, at age 31+ (when the new deal would be kicking in) to be worth a LT, big $ deal?
basically look at it as if he was on another team, and came up as a FA. With now history, what would you be willing to risk commiting to him?
pretty easy call IMO to say add 3 years to his current deal (3/51?). that gives him security, but does not lock up the team way past his prime.
Otherwise, let him play out this year, pick up the option (unless he completely falls apart!) and work on the LT next off season.
Speaking just from a business standpoint there is no good reason to lock up Wright for anything past 35 years old. Even that is a stretch. I can see a very good reason to trade him for prospects if Murphy proves he can’t play 2B OR if Havens/etc is pushing.
I doubt David would want to stay, not with the way the Mets are going.
One does not have to “rebuild” by totaling dismantling all the parts. If the parts become too expensive to keep, that’s one thing, but dismantling as a goal in mind is another.
If the Wilpons were middle of the road as far as finances were concerned, would we not be a better team if we re-signed Beltran for two years, switching to center (he showed us his knees were fine again), Duda in right and Reyes still at short? We could use our fourth outfielder obtained from the Giants exactly for the role he is most suited for – fourth outfielder.
Then with the bullpen shored up a bit, the decision would be to allow Gee, Neise and Pelfrey stay in the rotation or we try a different route.
Reyes
Murphy
Wright
Beltran
Davis
Duda
Bay
Thole
Not a bad line up.
He showed us his legs are fine? Really? I love Beltran but did you see him play RF? He certainly could not have handled CF with Duda in RF… That also would have not accounted for the lack of SP AND would have actually raised the payroll.
Would our 2012 be better? Probably. But the rotation would still most likely prevent us from making any real noise.
You are also assuming Beltran can still play center. He would be far more mobile this year than last, having to cover center field and cover for Duda in right. You can’t bet on his knees holding out.
Also, years were a big problem with the Reyes deal. Even if they could match the Marlins in terms of dollars, do you want to bet the 2011 Reyes will be the guy that shows up 3,4,5 or even 6 years down the road?
So, ya, the now would be a little rosier (but not by much), the long term, however, would suffer.
Hi Donal,
Beltran played the entire year without pain and would not have as much ground to cover going back on the ball in center as he did last year with the Mo Zone in right being what it was. Negotiations could have also begun with Jose before last year which might have resulted in a new five year deal commencing with 2011 for there was no Miami factor. Now, whether Jose still would have walked was out of the Mets control, but making an honest attempt to prevent that was not.
But the relevant point I continue to make is that this wasn’t a team that needed to be dismantled and in need of a compete re-building. If David, Jose and Beltran were about all twe had, then there would be little question about trading them for young talent as they would not part of our future, just like the situation in Houston with Pence and Keppinger.
Houston is re-building for the future but the difference is that the Astros won only 56 games and was a bad team. Pence and Keppinger had no supporting young players in the likes of Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Daniel Murphy, Josh Thole and pitchers who showed promise as much as Gee and Niese (in fact, Terry Collins said today the big distances in Citi Field might have hurt his pitchers thinking they did not have to bear down as much with those cavernous outfield dimensions). Nor did Houston have veterans other than Carlos Lee with anything real to contribute while we have a returning Santana, Dickey and even a hopefully rejuvenated Jason Bay. In addition, Houston was 16th in team ERA and 13th in runs scored.
The Mets were in much better condition and, unlike Houston, did not need to start from scratch. They could have continued building for the future while focusing on fielding a competitive team at the same time. This was still a team that with some tinkering could have still been a contender (and was till the middle of last year). It was nowhere close to the situation Houston was in.
So I have to disagree with what you said: “so, ya, the now would be a little rosier (but not by much), the long term, however, would suffer.” Why would the long term suffer? Nobody is reaching into our minor league system to sacrifice the future in order to help the “now” — all they did was sacrifice the “now” instead in the form of Reyes and Beltran and not going into the free agent market further for their pitching. We could have had it both ways – like many other clubs often do.
4 Wheelers?
Truth is all it’s going to take is a reduction in Attendance this year from last in order for the Mets to be forced to trade him!
We keep talking about this option that gets voided but we forget that teams about to trade for a player are able to renegotiate an extention (and have) many times before!
If the GMs agree on the package and details of the trade the team that gets him could easily renegotiate a contract extention before the trade is made!
They will essentially get the right to do what we could do right now if we were actually interested in keeping Wright!
The fact we are NOT talking extention speaks volumes about our future plans!
They HAVE to deny it now because they just let Reyes, Beltran and K-Rod go and they can’t take yet another hit to the revenue stream based on reduced attendance!
But he is as gone as a duck from the north in WInter!
Only question is now how much we getting back!
Only thing that can stop that is an increase in attendance that covers that last 15-20 mil (out of the 70 Mil) that the cuts we made still have not covered yet!
Anyone expecting Attendance to increase this year?
If not then don’t expect to see Wright much past this upcoming offseason!
I think it also depends on his production and offers. The fact that he is still under control for another 2 years and the lack of the option if he is traded are huge factors.
Dude the option goes away easier than a rash does!
It can be renegotiated even now if we wanted to!
K-Rods option was done away with wasn’t it?
The option has no bearing unless we refuse to let them renegotiate before the deal is consumated!
And why would we if we were not going to sign him?
The only way the option can hurt our trade possibilities if we intended to rent him to someone and try to resign him the following year when he hits FA!
The option will be renegotiated away before he turns in his Met jersey!
Metsi,
We disagree upon the impact of the attendance in regards to re-signing players. Other teams go through dips in attendance and then take measures to bring the fans back. And it’s not like the Mets had attendance problems for years that added up to years upon years in the red. With the stiff price increases in 2009, they drew above the average 38,000 they projected was needed to turn a profit.
The problem stems from the instability of the parent Sterling Equities as a whole. On top of that, though Fred Wilpon still insists the loss of the Madoff investments didn’t effect the operation of the club, he noted that the civil suit was something they didn’t expect.
Its not the fans who were responsible for their mess and it’s not the fans who are going to get them out of it either. We don’t own the club.
What measures do they take Joey?
Buy a FA? With what money?
Win more games? With what players they can’t afford?
And I wish you guys would stop putting all these financial things on Sterling!
If you owned stock in Verizon should they call you up and ask you to empty your bank account to pay for their losses last year?
Sterling hasn’t lost a penny! If they had they wouldn’t be in court fighting a lawsuit!
We lost money because we didn’t attend with Reyes, beltran and K-Rod plus a team that was winning at a .593 clip in june!
What makes you think without those things we are going to draw the same and if not what the hell can they possibly do to increase attendance? Make more banner days? Give away more bobble heads?
It is so the fans who are responsible for the mess!
Sterling hasn’t taken any money OUT of the mets bank account they in fact have borrowed money to put what was missing in and pay the bills!
Why is that money missing?
Because Sterling is broke or because attendance went down?
Hi Metsi,
We, the fans, did not put the Wilpons in the financial hole they now face. They built up a great amount of capital from us pouring through the gates even through the 2009 season. They lowered ticket prices this year simply because seats became too expensive for fans to afford and that’s why so many no longer came – the Wilpons outsmarted themselves thinking more could be made by building a smaller ballpark and charging extremely higher ticket prices – and it backfired.
This season they incorporated a “dynamic pricing” system which means if fans start to come back, the result will be those lower prices going up once again until they once more turn fans away which (like stocks) will cause them to dive in value to the discounts afforded to season ticket holders.
But still, did revenue alone dropping so severely the past two seasons force them to bring a financial consultant on Board? As mentioned, other franchises go through periods of low attendance and the resulting measures are nowhere as extreme as what the Wilpons are doing.
No team falls so far down financially in 24 months, especially in a largest market that is the tri-state area, to take the drastic steps the Wilpons are doing. It is not a situation where it has been year upon year of fans staying away plus limited television revenue due to a small market.
Its not up to the fans to get the team on track — it’s up to the owners not to push the fans away by telling them to eat cake (or chocolates?).
You most certainly did!
Because they didn’t lose money off Madoff, Their Real Estate holdings have nothing to do with what the METS could afford!
The met budget is set based on the money the METS make not the Wilpons!
And the Mets make money off US!
Well Metsi, my friend,
Since I was directly responsible in my own small way in causing the METS to be in the financial situation they are now in, I’ll plead guilty. If the tickets, parking and concessions as dictated by Fred and Jeff are still too rich for my blood, I’ll get a second job for the good of the team.
LOL Joey!
Now that we have that it is our fault they can’t pay the bills out of the way
We can move onto did we have a right to choose to not go?
And that is most emphatically yes!
I’m not saying we didn’t have a good reason to pass on seeing them or it is our responsibility to go see them!
All I’m saying is we are the reason they have money problems and they will continue to have those money problems until we decide we want to go again!
We should not fairly point fingers at Sandy or Wilpon for the finances, It was all our doing!
They built it and we didn’t come!
James Earl Jones was wrong!
Hi Metsi,
LOL – that’s one thing we agree on – “they” built it. And that might have been the reason why Burt Lancaster crossed the foul line to get out!
But I did a little math on my own and, though this is totally unscientific, it raises some questions.
- During the years 2002-2004 our teams were just as bad and also drew less than 30,000 a game.
- In 2004, our payroll was still quite hight for those times at $77 million – which according to the inflation calculator, equals over $92 million in today’s terms. Since the Mets got no money for naming rights to Shea Stadium as they do today for Citi Field, let’s assume that additional revenue offsets the difference in payroll (remember, this is unscientific).
- And the cost for tickets, counting for inflation, were less than they are today. Not to mention not nearly the amount of luxury suites like those we have now.
So, in consideration of all this, why weren’t the Mets losing money back then as they are now? As we know, the Doubldays didn’t sell their majority ownership to get out of debt. Since part of our disagreement concerns SNY being separate from the Mets, could it be that in 2004 the Mets were mets were directly getting revenue from television rights from Fox Sports Channel and had to account for this in their ledger – while the money made from SNY today shows up in the books for Sterling Equities instead?
As I said, unscientific, but it does raise valid questions about how much a part attendance played in the Mets claiming to have lost $70 million this year and the Mets being treated as an entity distinct from Sterling Equities instead of part of it. For if the Mets are indeed separate, that means they see not a penny from the broadcast of their games over SNY in this, the largest sports market in the country. If so, then why? It wouldn’t be that both are owned in part by Sterling Equities, would it?
That’s why I say it’s impossible to distinguish the Mets from Sterling and that they are just a part of the overall corporation. The Mets are a money making source for Sterling Equities via SNY, merchandising, rental of storefront spaces at Citi Field, etc. and what they make for the overall corporation more than compensates for the $70 million loss shown on their books. It is not unusual to see this in many forms of business. Take the consumer electronics industry. All the major manufacturers have been losing money in their television divisions due to consumers no longer needing to buy new sets. But they still make both money and televisions.
Well there are a number of reasons…
One the Economy was not as Bad, and the Corporations had not started making the drastic cuts they made after 2008!
Season Ticket sales pay the majority of the bills. Most season tickets in Shea (full season to be precise) are bought by companies and corporations.
When the economy crawls the first thing that gets cut are those perk purchases!
2006-2008 we drew 3.38, 3.85 and 4 Mil
2009 we drew 3.17 Mil And had our highest salary to date 149.3 Mil We lost roughly 800K in Attendance due to the injuries and the losing. about 10K per game! Add up what it costs per person to go to a game and times it by 81! Thats a BIG drop! But still enough to pay the bills!
They didn’t lose money in 2009! Probably didn’t make much either so that comes to about the breakeven mark for attendance and Payroll.
You can safely say for every 3 Mil of attendance they can make 149 Mil!
They lost another 609K in attendance in 2010 Lost 50 Mil on a 134 Mil payroll!
2009 was marred by injury, 2010 was a continuation of those injuries with beltran missing half the season!
2011 they had 2.35 Mil in attendance a drop of 207K which led to 20 Mil more in losses!
That 50 turned into 70!
If we lose another 200K in attendance this year and considering our cuts we stand to lose about 40 Mil again! Down 30 from the 70 but still 40 Mil short of paying the bills!
And what do we cut then?
Bye Bye Wright!
Which is why I said in the Wright thread Team performance, His performance is NOT going to have any affect on if we trade Wright! Sandy really told the truth this time!
If we don’t go then he will be forced to cut even more and keep cutting until Bay and Santana are gone and hopefull attendance has hit it’s rock bottom so those cuts actually balance the books!
And that Means want him or not Wright will get traded based on what WE do not what the team and Wright himself does!
Good points, Metsi,
But I don’t think the economy in 2004 compared to today comes into the conversation since we are talking in terms of numbers that apply specifically to the Mets of which are very similar enough in terms of attendance and payroll. Even though money does crawl in a bad economy, the same amount of fans who attend now (as compared to 2004) are actually paying more (adjusting for inflation) for the cost of tickets (with those added fees), parking and concessions. So they buy less but still pay more. Just like with Citi Field – less capacity but costing more.
And that’s why the drop in attendance is misleading as a reason behind the drop of revenue. It applies to attendance figures but not generated gross. The Mets can never draw anything remotely close as they did the final year at Shea – it is physically impossible even if Citi Field is SRO for every game of the season. There is a 20 percent drop in seating capacity.
But a 20 percent drop in attendance is offset by how much more is made off of each individual in attendance. Attendance figures look nice for the record books but 38,000 paying a lot more individually can generate much more revenue than 50,000 paying a lot less.
So this still doesn’t explain why the team, adjusting for inflation, made money during the Art Howe years and doesn’t now. And there is still the issue of the team once directly making money from the selling of television rights to which, on paper, it appears they make nothing off their broadcasts today. Any team losing all it’s television revenue would go broke. And the last I saw, the Mets were still on television – though they might be in a tough competition with “Beer Money” for the ratings.
Thats why 2009 is the key year!
And I will remind you that inflation has not gone up much since 2004!
Why do you think Interest rates are so low? They raise it to stem inflation and lower it to stimulate growth!
We didn’t lose money in 2009, And that was in CitiField!
Yes it has fewer seats but that didn’t seem to be a cause of losing money in 2009!
Lets also face a truth here the attendance in 2008 had as much to do with people going to see their last game at Shea as it did with any of the winning that went on that year!
It was the highest attendance ever for the Mets in history. that wasn’t actually a product of super fan enthusiasm nor their competitive september. It sure didn’t hurt though!
It was a lot of people who have spent a lifetime going to see the Mets at Shea Sheaing goodbye to it!
The 2009 season shows what attendance is possible and can sustain a 140 Mil payroll.
Any dip from that means lost finances and unpaid bills!
Shea isn’t coming back and unless they can draw as many people as they drew in 2009 all this money we think we saved for spending on future FAs will not actually exist.
If we lose 200K in attendance from last year we will have after 55 mil in cuts only saved 30 Mil!
Purging Wright would not even be enough to break even.
The solution can’t be made with cuts that also reduce the attendance!
Your not getting every penny!
Spending might bring more people but you still have to spend that money again not paying the bills unless 10 Mil brings in 20 mil you still only raised 10 Mil in revenue!
Winning can bring some more in but still by the time anyone buys the wins half the season is over…
We don’t have the financial problems because we spent too much because we paid the bills with the highest payroll!
We don’t have financial issues because we CUT salary because we lost money after ADDING Bay to the payroll!
Cutting hasn’t manage to pay the bills and this season may show what we think we cut covered less than half the potential losses or worse if even fewer of us show up!
The problems are caused by US having a lack of faith, lack of funds and no credible reason to go spend what little money we have to go see them!
Corporations are buusy trying to keep their lush salaries and are willing to get rid of the Season Ticket perk to do that!
So other than the economy booming, giving fans a lot of extra disposable cash plus businesses the money to buy sections like they have in the past,
Save getting a Superstar draw to lure in fans or running away from the Division,
There really is NOTHING Sandy or the Wilpons can do to fix the finances!
They didn’t cause it and have no way to really deal with it.
because no matter what they try and do it’s still dependent on if we go or not!
They could spend 100 Mil on talent tomorrow and if we don’t go it won’t fix the problem!
But we would more likely go if they did!
They could cut another 50 Mil from the payroll but if we don’t go it won’t help them pay the bills or the loans they have out there to pay for all the times we passed on going the last two years!
We are the cause but we have every right to deny them money!
Make a bad movie and no one will go to see it once the word gets out!
Baseball is the same business when you come right down to it!
Thats why Metallica gets the big bucks and Vanilla Ice is playing Bars!
Metsi,
Season ticket holders pay less per game ticket than do those buying seats on an individual basis. The Champions seats that I sat last year for opening day were $189 for season ticket holders and $229 for individual sales. The advantage to any team in selling a season ticket is that all the money comes in advance.
But still, what about the revenue from those television rights that appeared on the books in 2004 but not in 2011 since it now goes to SNY? The Angeles were able to afford to pay Puljos such a ridiculous sum because of their recent TV agreement. The same with the Yankees with their own station YES as it is the BoSox with NESPN. But by leaving the equation out, does this mean the Mets make nothing off of television since SNY is a separate entity and that’s where it all goes to?
Attendance of course is a big source of revenue, but owners have stated its the television rights and/or owning of their own sports station that brings in the real cash – I have posted such articles in the past but do not have the time to find them again.
Sure they get a discount, But they also buy 81 games a season!
How many does the individual basis buyer buy in a year?
Your a bit confused about TV Rights.
The Mets get the TV rights money then and now! Only difference is SNY now pays it to the Mets not Sportschannel!
The Angels were affording those guys based on selling TV rights to someone other than themselves in a year where TV Rights have jumped through the roof thanks to that Dodger deal. The Mets negotiated their contract with SNY long before that market was there! And even still part of the deal to get the network partners to pony up the money was the promise that they would not have to bid against someone else for the rights.
So you can claim SNY stops them from getting the most money they could get on the open market but in truth they simply get what is the fair market value for the time they signed that deal and when the next deal is up for renewal they will get Market value at that time based on all these new deals being made!
The owners who claim how much their TV rights help them are the ones who don’t own their own TV network or are in small markets where a TV network can’t really draw enough ratings to make a profit and still pay the TV Rights they are getting from Fox Sports Regional!
And one of the reasons Fox is offerring so much is to stop teams from doing what the Wilpons did and taking over the sports programming in that market!
Metsi,
The attached might explain what I’m getting at. Note the portion that says “assets for the Mets”.
Joe
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/20/sports/regional-sports-networks-show-teams-the-money.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
I know full well what the assets are…
SNY give the Mets money for the rights but thats it!
SNY money is not Met ior Wilpon money that money also beliongs to Time Warner and Comcast!
The Wilpons can put thier share of those profits into the team if they choose but it’s still putting their own personal money into the team that isn’t making enough to pay it’s own bills!
“The Wilpons can put thier share of those profits into the team if they choose but it’s still putting their own personal money into the team that isn’t making enough to pay it’s own bills!”
Hi Metsi,
It’s not personal money, it’s corporate money. The Wilpons could take every penny earned in profit out of the corporation and put it into their own personal pocket but that wouldn’t leave any capital for re-investment – not a wise business decision unless one is packing up and leaving.
How about we put this friendly debate to a close? I’ll cede the closing statement to you if you want to.
P.S. Either way one looks at it, we both agree David Wright is a goner (and it’s my hunch he might want to get out of Flushing as soon as he can, anyway, regardless of the money)
Sterling owns the Mets! The Mets don’t own Sterling!
The Mets are supposed to make money for sterling, sterling isn’t here to make money for the mets!
Company A is sterling it owns Company B
If I own a securities company (A) and own company B I am not required to take my profits from company A to pay the bills of Company B!
SNY is company C! Owned by Company A it also is not supposed to pay Company B’s bills!
Company B is supposed to pay it’s own way making Company A worth more!
Not the other way around!