Comments on: Mets Leadoff Hitter, Is It Really A Debate?

By: Nick Pugliese

Nick Pugliese — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:07:07 +0000

It isn’t even so much needing to steal or bunt, but I think it is important to at least have the threat of those two things at the top otherwise you are limiting yourself offensively.

Pitchers aren’t going to fear Murphy stealing and won’t (a) have to worry about the threat of a steal and can focus solely on the hitter and (b) because they don’t fear the steal it decreases the number of fastballs your best hitters see.

And even if those two things are only affected in the slightest, that could be a couple wins a year.

By: Bayonne Mets Fan

Bayonne Mets Fan — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:46:39 +0000

and you needed OBA to tell you this?

Unbelievable

By: Fonzie13

Fonzie13 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:43:35 +0000

I would go with Davis,Wright,Duda and Bay as 3,4,5,6. I want Davis,my best hitter gauranteed of a 1st inning at bat and Bay doesn’t deserve to hit ahead of any of the other 3 based on his last 2 years. The other positions I would agree as long as Torres is not an automatic out in ST games.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:38:56 +0000

It depends on your success ratio, situation and player behind you. If you are a guy like Reyes who always waited until the 4-5th pitch to steal then you have to have a very patient guy behind him who excels at either not striking out batting with 2 strikes.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:36:52 +0000

Are you saying with this year’s team in mind that they should have?

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:07:59 +0000

Alex, I have a question for you. I think Torres is also a 4/5 OF before we even start this discussion. However, should we only look at his 2011 to judge his ability or inability? Does that mean we should only look at 2010 for Reyes and Beltran? I know they are much better so lets take Pagan… should we look at his 2011 and not his 2010? How about Rick Ankiel? Perhaps Omar should have just went off Tatis and Valentin’s previous year? Or Dickey? Point is that players do have the ability to rebound and if he does then you get a capable place holder if he does not then you throw him away and find the next piece of Pagan I mean junk to throw in.

The deal was never about Torres, it was about acquiring the best pitcher in the BP.

By: Alex68

Alex68 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:00:56 +0000

Nick, i wasn’t refering to you, but to some other idi-ot who tries to justify sandy alderson’s moves by bringing the phantom numbers noone cares about to pretend the player is somehow good.. i mean, seriously, how good or great can a guy be if he hits 220?? but to people who like numbers, his OBP which was horrible as well it’s what matters here, so that is why you see numbers like him leading off and as a lead off hitter..

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:38:53 +0000

You forget Sandy’s Sabermetrical beliefs and in Sabers Stealing Bases is not important in fact some Sabermetricians even suggest it is a bad thing to try and do!

By: Alex68

Alex68 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:38:05 +0000

guys, at least we did not give up any draft picks… right agee???? SMH!

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:36:43 +0000

Collins said it on Hot Stove and recently on the same show Murphy was asked about what Collins said!

Collins suggested it because of his OBP and patience at the plate!

More likely it will be:
Murphy
Tejada
Duda
Wright
Davis
Bay
Thole
CF

With thole and CF swapping now and then.
If Torres is the CF he will defintly bat before the Pitcher so we have some speed to bunt with and to be on base for the top of the order.

By: any

any — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:12:46 +0000

That’s why you play the games and don’t decide on paper before the season starts.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:06:26 +0000

With the current lineup I hope the days of bunting anyone over are few.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:05:35 +0000

I am fine with that but where have you read that to be the case?
If it is then I expect to see
Murphy, Tejada, Davis, Wright, Duda, Bay, Thole, Torres or
What would be out of the box
Murphy, Bay, Davis, Wright, Duda, Tejada, Thole, Torres.

Personally I would rather have Davis bat 4th but to do that you have to have a rebound from Bay and something warranting him to be ahead of Duda IMO.

By: Nick Pugliese

Nick Pugliese — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:03:21 +0000

Yeah I pretty much agree with all of this.

I have a hard time seeing Murphy leading off. He is so bad on the basepaths you would never be able to play small ball with him. If he gets on first base then the situation will never occur where he can steal 2nd and get sacrificed to 3rd for an early chance at one run. He has to slot into that 2-7 range depending on who is playing that day/what the matchup is.

Tejada, maybe. Like any said though it might be a little too much too soon for Tejada and I think he would look perfect in the 8 hole because I have a little more faith in him being able to continue a rally and clear the pitcher’s spot than to set the table.

By: Metsie

Metsie — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:00:45 +0000

If anyone has paid attention you would have known that Terry Collins intends to start Murphy as the leadoff hitter!

By: Nick Pugliese

Nick Pugliese — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:49:37 +0000

Yeah I probably didn’t word those the best ways possible, but essentially the second line you quoted was supposed to be act as intro to the post saying “when I read Janish’s post it seemed like the leadoff spot was going to be a hard question to answer” But then the article is supposed to show when I went and took a look at things his idea was interesting but the fact that he left Torres out of the discussion made everything obsolete because Torres is the only legitimate option we have.

By: Donal

Donal — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:48:14 +0000

Emawas not awful in ST. None of the players competing for the 2B stood out. Turner had options and Emaus didn’t. Also, Tejada looked compeltely overwhelmed by big league pitching in 2010.

And Hu wasn’t competing for the 2B job. He was there as a late inning defensive replacement . It was a different role. He should have never have been in the starting line up. Do you get upset about the bullpen’s OBP as well? Because it is pretty much the same idea.

When you have to scramble for 5 guys who together had about 700 PAs, your point is weak. you just need to come to terms with it. You’re crying over bench players. Maybe if the catching situation wasn’t so crappy, Paulino would have gotten a lot fewer PAs.

And Willie Harris’ OBP was .351.

By: t agee

t agee — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:45:19 +0000

I’m just happy that the Giants aren’t satisfied with just having had a chance to win.

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:44:14 +0000

Wouldn’t that be a little high for Cameron?

By: trs86

trs86 — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:43:20 +0000

Of course he made a horrible move. Any move he makes is horrible, yet some proclaim all we do is praise him. I can’t remember the last time I even said he did a good job.